Australian Politics Forum - Abrogation is a sticking point for non-Muslims

Gaybriel

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Re: Abrogation is a sticking point for non-Muslims
Reply #30 - Oct 20^th, 2008 at 4:05pm

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 20^th, 2008 at 3:53pm:

Quote:

gees abu- reading your first few posts in here, you are so defensive and combative

Since you've been here all of about 5 minutes, I'll overlook the naivety with which you obviously view this situation.

Go and read the mountains upon mountains of abuse, attacks, criticisms, slanders against myself and my religion, I have put up with since I began posting here. Since some of those posters (including the original poster) were the culprits for most of it, forgive me for not having the patience to sit down and explain it to them in nice and friendly simple terms (for the umpteenth time). I did that for the first few weeks, when it got met with nothing but vitriol, I resolved to become a little more 'stern' in my dealing with them.

My attitude has still been much more pleasant with them than their's has at most times been with me.

but see- you display the same attitude towards me- since when have I been abusive towards you?

has mozzaok been abusive? he/she seems to be asking a genuine question

it seems like you're not taking people on an individual basis but rather assuming they are anti-islam and that they will be abusive

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freediver

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Re: Abrogation is a sticking point for non-Muslims
Reply #31 - Oct 20^th, 2008 at 4:11pm

Since most of the reports are coming from Western media reports, it's not surprising this is how the story is told. The British have recently admitted they've been targetting civilians, but guess what? They still blame it on the big bad terrorists. "If the terrorists hadn't have been so hard to catch, we wouldn't have had to target civilians, and then they wouldn't be turning against us into the arms of thee Talibaan" (My paraphrase, which had a lot less ideological slant on it than most Western media reports about the conflict).

What exactly are you accusing the west of?

This is called propaganda. When you kill your enemy's civilians make it sound like it's actually his fault.

Actually, if those people harbour terrorists, it is their fault. You can't protect evil people like Al Quaida and then blame someone else when you get caught in the crossfire. If the Muslims presented a regular army, we would take them on directly. Of course, they are too weak to do so and instead resort to the tactics they use now.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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abu_rashid

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Re: Abrogation is a sticking point for non-Muslims
Reply #32 - Oct 20^th, 2008 at 4:57pm

Gaybriel,

Quote:

but see- you display the same attitude towards me- since when have I been abusive towards you?

I merely excused you because you haven't witnessed the dialogue that's occured between mozzaok and myself since I began posting here. I don't see how that's displaying a poor attitude towards you. You should check the history before criticising my response.

Quote:

has mozzaok been abusive? he/she seems to be asking a genuine question

I don't think mozza has ever asked a question about Islam except to ridicule and abuse Islam and Muslims. You dont have to search back too far to find his vitriol.

Yesterday:
Quote:

Muslims are selfish, self centred people

Or how about my first ever interaction with him (June 29):
Quote:

Abu, are you shitting me, you converted to Islam?

That is a one way ticket, to nowhere good.

From day 1 until today he's had nothing good to say, nothing sincere to ask, just vitriolic garbage. He doesn't even deserve the respect I've showed him in this thread. Really I've been far too tolerant with him.

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Gaybriel

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Re: Abrogation is a sticking point for non-Muslims
Reply #33 - Oct 20^th, 2008 at 8:40pm

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 20^th, 2008 at 4:57pm:

Gaybriel,

I merely excused you because you haven't witnessed the dialogue that's occured between mozzaok and myself since I began posting here. I don't see how that's displaying a poor attitude towards you. You should check the history before criticising my response.

I suppose it was more your tone. similarly in the other thread when discussing the whole 'muslims not cricising each other in public' thing- you just seem ready to attack. apologies if I have misconstrued your attitude towards me.

but yes I am new and unaware of the history. part of me feels bad that you must be this due to the actions of others. part of me hopes that this can change.

peace brother

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Soren

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Re: Abrogation is a sticking point for non-Muslims
Reply #34 - Oct 20^th, 2008 at 8:45pm

Gaybriel wrote on Oct 20^th, 2008 at 8:40pm:

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 20^th, 2008 at 4:57pm:

Gaybriel,

I merely excused you because you haven't witnessed the dialogue that's occured between mozzaok and myself since I began posting here. I don't see how that's displaying a poor attitude towards you. You should check the history before criticising my response.

I suppose it was more your tone. similarly in the other thread when discussing the whole 'muslims not cricising each other in public' thing- you just seem ready to attack. apologies if I have misconstrued your attitude towards me.

but yes I am new and unaware of the history. part of me feels bad that you must be this due to the actions of others. part of me hopes that this can change.

peace brother

Ahhhhhhhh. That's sooo nice.
Can I have a hug, too, please, miss?

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Gaybriel

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Re: Abrogation is a sticking point for non-Muslims
Reply #35 - Oct 20^th, 2008 at 8:48pm

Soren wrote on Oct 20^th, 2008 at 8:45pm:

Gaybriel wrote on Oct 20^th, 2008 at 8:40pm:

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 20^th, 2008 at 4:57pm:

Gaybriel,

I merely excused you because you haven't witnessed the dialogue that's occured between mozzaok and myself since I began posting here. I don't see how that's displaying a poor attitude towards you. You should check the history before criticising my response.

I suppose it was more your tone. similarly in the other thread when discussing the whole 'muslims not cricising each other in public' thing- you just seem ready to attack. apologies if I have misconstrued your attitude towards me.

but yes I am new and unaware of the history. part of me feels bad that you must be this due to the actions of others. part of me hopes that this can change.

peace brother

Ahhhhhhhh. That's sooo nice.
Can I have a hug, too, please, miss?

******HUGS*****

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abu_rashid

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Re: Abrogation is a sticking point for non-Muslims
Reply #36 - Oct 20^th, 2008 at 9:00pm

Quote:

I suppose it was more your tone. similarly in the other thread when discussing the whole 'muslims not cricising each other in public' thing

Yes my tone is quite dismissive, and I don't think it's unwarranted either. If someone comes in asking a sincere question, I don't mind to answer them, but the same guys asking the same kinds of questions over and over, with no other obvious motive than to mock and attack Islam... They truly don't deserve the time of day.

Check through the Islamic forum. There's a few posts by sincere forummers asking genuine questions. Someone asked about prayer (muso I think), and someone else asked about hijab (perhaps mantra), and I discussed it with them in an open and sincere manner. But mozzaok, jordan et al, they are a different bunch. The first few times I answered them sincerely, after that I became weary, yet still I answer them, which is really more respect than they deserve.

Quote:

apologies if I have misconstrued your attitude towards me.

No problems whatsoever, I really didn't mean to be harsh in mentioning your relative newness here, as you seem quite sincere and objective. But just to point out to you that you should understand a bit about the history of those posters here, before rushing to draw conclusions.

Quote:

part of me feels bad that you must be this due to the actions of others

As do I, feel bad. But you know what they say, once bitten twice shy. But it's my choice to stay and put up with it. Doesn't mean I can't put them in their place though.

Quote:

part of me hopes that this can change.

As do I, and perhaps it will some day. We gotta be optimistic I agree, thanks for pointing it out.

Quote:

peace brother

And to you be peace.

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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 41183 Gender:	Re: Abrogation is a sticking point for non-Muslims Reply #37 - Oct 20^th, 2008 at 9:01pm mozzaoks comments have always been honest and unbiased. perhaps because he detests oppression you are not too keen with him ?
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abu_rashid Gold Member Offline Aussie Muslim Posts: 8353	Re: Abrogation is a sticking point for non-Muslims Reply #38 - Oct 20^th, 2008 at 9:03pm yeh perhaps sprint. Since I'm such an ardent supporter of oppression and all... See what I mean Gaybriel? The chances for sincere dialogue with such people are extremely slim.
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locutius

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Re: Abrogation is a sticking point for non-Muslims
Reply #39 - Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 3:59pm

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 17^th, 2008 at 1:45pm:

Quote:

So why doesn't this happen?

I don't know, ask those who do it. I don't make a habit of criticising the decadence of the West. I might express disagreeance with it, but that's about it.

Abu, you habitually let slip the word 'decadence' into this sentence about the West.

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I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives.

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locutius

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Re: Abrogation is a sticking point for non-Muslims
Reply #40 - Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 4:46pm

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 20^th, 2008 at 4:57pm:

Or how about my first ever interaction with him (June 29):
Abu quoting mozza
Quote:

Abu, are you shitting me, you converted to Islam?

That is a one way ticket, to nowhere good.

From day 1 until today he's had nothing good to say, nothing sincere to ask, just vitriolic garbage. He doesn't even deserve the respect I've showed him in this thread. Really I've been far too tolerant with him.

I think this showed genuine disbelief at what you had done. Not an unusual sentiment, probably just put more bluntly than most would put it.

As if to say 'You're shitting me, you've taken up smoking! That is a one way ticket to no good.'

At least a packet of cigarettes only costs about $10 a pack, not your intellectual integrity. Which is suggested when you talk about following someone blindly, Muslim ettiquete and adherence to the multi-interpretive perfect message.

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I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives.

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jordan484

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Re: Abrogation is a sticking point for non-Muslims
Reply #41 - Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 5:02pm

Abu, your very first post in response to mine was abusive. This was followed by malik's first response to a post of mine with a picture of flames insinuating that because I eat pork I was going to hell. You started the negative and abusive posts so you can't complain about them coming back to bite you.

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"We should always say that I may refrain from publishing a cartoon of the Prophet Mohammed, but it's because I fear you. Don't for one moment think it's because I respect you." Richard Dawkins

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abu_rashid

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Re: Abrogation is a sticking point for non-Muslims
Reply #42 - Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 6:56pm

Quote:

Abu, your very first post in response to mine was abusive.

It was not abusive at all.

Quote:

This was followed by malik's first response to a post of mine with a picture of flames insinuating that because I eat pork I was going to hell

Obviously you still don't get this, but I'm not Malik, so that's got little to do with me.

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abu_rashid

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Re: Abrogation is a sticking point for non-Muslims
Reply #43 - Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 7:07pm

Locutius,

Quote:

Abu, you habitually let slip the word 'decadence' into this sentence about the West.

I do? Can you show me some examples of it? Since it's habitual, you should be able to find 100's of cases right?

Quote:

I think this showed genuine disbelief at what you had done.

It showed disrespect and an insincere attitude towards those who choose a certain religion. Something Mozzaok has continuually displayed throughout my time here towards Islam. But I don't expect anything else from him nor am I complaining, I was merely pointing out to Gaybriel that there's a history behind my unwillingness to consider any question from mozzaok about Islam to be sincere. Please read the thread in conext.

Quote:

At least a packet of cigarettes only costs about $10 a pack, not your intellectual integrity.

I'm not surprised you'd consider inhaling cancer-causing substances to be less toxic than a belief in the Creator and Sustainer of all life. How is recognition of, and gratitude towards, one's maker relevant to one's intellectual integrity?

Quote:

Which is suggested when you talk about following someone blindly,

We all follow things blindly, it's part and parcel of not being omniscient. You cannot experience everything you hold to be true personally, and therefore must rely upon the knowledge of others.

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mozzaok Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 6741 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Abrogation is a sticking point for non-Muslims Reply #44 - Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 7:40pm You still haven't even got close to providing a reasonable explanation of why abrogation should not be considered as proof of inconsistency, at the very least.
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