Australian Politics Forum - No wonder islamics are militant

Yadda

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Re: No wonder islamics are militant
Reply #135 - Oct 14^th, 2008 at 1:09pm

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 14^th, 2008 at 12:33pm:

Quote:

#3,

UK muslim cleric - speaking publicly, AND THEN PRIVATELY, regarding the London 7/7 bombing victims.
August 7, 2005
Inside the sect that loves terror
"......In public interviews Bakri condemned the killing of all innocent civilians. LATER WHEN HE ADDRESSED HIS OWN FOLLOWERS he explained that he had in fact been referring only to Muslims as only they were innocent: Yes I condemn killing any innocent people, but not any kuffar."
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1724541,00.html

Quote:

UK cleric promotes terror, example #2

Inside the sect that loves terror
August 07, 2005
......Last week Omar Brooks stirred controversy with televised comments, but they were carefully chosen to avoid appearing to incite violence. On Saturday, July 2 he had been more forthright.
Speaking to a group of teenagers and families, he declared it was IMPERATIVE FOR MUSLIMS TO INSTIL TERROR INTO THE HEARTS OF THE KUFFAR and added: I am a terrorist. As a Muslim of course I am a terrorist.
......In public interviews Bakri condemned the killing of all innocent civilians. Later when he addressed his own followers he explained that he had in fact been referring only to Muslims as only they were innocent: Yes I condemn killing any innocent people, but not any kuffar.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1724541,00.html

Couldn't find enough articles to cut and paste so you started recycling them? Grin

abu,
As someone said previously, why don't you address the issues, instead of 'shooting the messenger'?

i.e. Why don't you admit that the violence and hatred of devout muslims, against 'unbelievers', is inspired by ISLAMIC texts?
....and encouraged by many muslim clerics.

Or am i reading a different Koran and Hadith, to the one you pure and true muslims study?

++++++

But abu, you can certainly nit-pick, about my 'dubious' sources, and my presentation, if that is what you want to do.

Water off a ducks back, for me.

I'm happy let other ppl who read this forum, judge between the points i make here, and your 'none-responses' to them.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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mozzaok

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Re: No wonder islamics are militant
Reply #136 - Oct 14^th, 2008 at 1:12pm

Insults?
Oh Lestat, you are an open invitation, but we do try and restrain ourselves a little.

For the record, I never supported military incursion into Iraq or Afghanistan, at any time.
I have always opposed it, and I have always considered Bush to be the worst president in US history, and a stupid and dangerous man.

So do not assume that resenting Islam's imposition of itself into western society equates to a wish to invade muslim countries, or fight muslims, it does not always follow, but obviously for some it does.

Your most recent efforts are not unique, you always, unthinkingly, and uncritically, support anything you perceive as pro-muslim, and attack anything you deem anti-muslim.
You demand quotes and references for anything you do not find palatable, but accept everything at face value, that you believe will suit your cause.
That is why I called you a spanner, it is an inanimate object, an unthinking tool.

Start to use some objectivity and you may even get promoted to human.

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OOPS!!! My Karma, ran over your Dogma!

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Lestat

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Re: No wonder islamics are militant
Reply #137 - Oct 14^th, 2008 at 1:13pm

jordan484 wrote on Oct 14^th, 2008 at 1:08pm:

Yes, I think that democracy needs to come from within, if it is to come at all.

And the Quran clealy states "There is no co-ercion in religon'. No one should be forced to practise any religon, or particular beliefs, and according to the teachings of my religon...no one is.

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Lestat

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Re: No wonder islamics are militant
Reply #138 - Oct 14^th, 2008 at 1:22pm

mozzaok wrote on Oct 14^th, 2008 at 1:12pm:

Insults?
Oh Lestat, you are an open invitation, but we do try and restrain ourselves a little.

For the record, I never supported military incursion into Iraq or Afghanistan, at any time.
I have always opposed it, and I have always considered Bush to be the worst president in US history, and a stupid and dangerous man.

So do not assume that resenting Islam's imposition of itself into western society equates to a wish to invade muslim countries, or fight muslims, it does not always follow, but obviously for some it does.

Your most recent efforts are not unique, you always, unthinkingly, and uncritically, support anything you perceive as pro-muslim, and attack anything you deem anti-muslim.
You demand quotes and references for anything you do not find palatable, but accept everything at face value, that you believe will suit your cause.
That is why I called you a spanner, it is an inanimate object, an unthinking tool.

Start to use some objectivity and you may even get promoted to human.

Of course...how silly of me. 'Spanner' is a term of endearement. My mistake.

Sorry...but unlike you I don't take everything I read at face value. Perhaps your simple mind is incapable of actually questioning...but personally, I like some sort of evidence to back up what I read. Yadda posted an article claiming a sheikh said so and so...yet their is not one quote in that article attributed to the Sheikh...or what he said.

Really...if you are choosing to attack me for 'demanding' quotes, then truly, this says a fair bit about you and your lack of though process.

So I'll ask again...you say that Islam is imposing its beliefs on western society. COuld you provide examples of this?

Really...the rest of your dribble is hardly worthy of a response.

Do you always behave like a childish brat whenever your argument is shot down in flames?

I might even become human huh. hehe, more insults...and if you truly believe that you are objective, then i fear your are more deluded then I first thought.

Gaybriel, Mantra...these are posters which I would describe as 'objective. You....you are just as biased as I am....yet your ignorance and arrogance blind you...and in your delusional mind you actually believe you are objective.

What a joke...

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Yadda

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Re: No wonder islamics are militant
Reply #139 - Oct 14^th, 2008 at 1:36pm

Gaybriel wrote on Oct 14^th, 2008 at 12:36pm:

yeah!!! I hate it when [muslims] believe in their beliefs!! how dumb!
especially

when you post 'evidence' from wikipedia and anti-islam sites

!!
surely that will sway them!
.....it's like when you believe that islam is totally crap- and then muslims post up evidence that it isn't, and people post articles from the media about equality and human rights and all that- and you TOTALLY change your beliefs!
amazing how you're able to change your beliefs based on what other people view as evidence...oh wait...you don't? hmmm

from Koran,

"Let there be no compulsion in religion......."
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/002.qmt.html#002.256

.....er, unless the religion is non-muslim.

Hadith....

"Allah 's Apostle said, " I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' ...."
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/052.sbt.html#004.052.196

"Allah's Apostle was asked, "What is the best deed?" He replied, "To believe in Allah and His Apostle (Muhammad). The questioner then asked, "What is the next (in goodness)? He replied, "To participate in Jihad (religious fighting) in Allah's Cause." "
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/002.sbt.html#001.002.025

Koran,

"Fighting [against unbelievers] is prescribed for you, and [if] ye dislike it.....Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/002.qmt.html#002.216

"....take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends....
......he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them." [i.e. is an unbeliever]
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/005.qmt.html#005.051

The Koran instructs muslims, that non-muslims only wish to corrupt, and ruin muslims.....
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/003.qmt.html#003.118

The best muslims, in Allah's eyes, are those "....who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons."
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/004.qmt.html#004.095

++++

ISLAM's teaching on those who give up ISLAM.....

Hadith

"...If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him."
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/052.sbt.html#004.052.260

From ISLAMIC law texts....

Ibn 'Abbas reported that the Prophet said: "The bare essence of Islam and the basics of the religion are three [acts], upon which Islam has been established. Whoever leaves one of them BECOMES AN UNBELIEVER and HIS BLOOD MAY LEGALLY BE SPILLED. [The acts are:] Testifying that there is no God except Allah, the obligatory prayers, and the fast of Ramadan."....
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/law/fiqhussunnah/fus3_50.html#3.110

APOSTASY IN ISLAM
"Apostasy in Islam is commonly defined as the rejection of Islam in word or deed by a person who has been a Muslim.
The FOUR MAJOR SUNNI AND THE ONE MAJOR SHIA MADH'HAB (SCHOOLS OF ISLAMIC JURISPRUDENCE) AGREE that a sane adult male apostate must be executed......"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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jordan484

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Re: No wonder islamics are militant
Reply #140 - Oct 14^th, 2008 at 1:36pm

Lestat wrote on Oct 14^th, 2008 at 1:13pm:

jordan484 wrote on Oct 14^th, 2008 at 1:08pm:

Yes, I think that democracy needs to come from within, if it is to come at all.

And the Quran clealy states "There is no co-ercion in religon'. No one should be forced to practise any religon, or particular beliefs, and according to the teachings of my religon...no one is.

That may be so, however, your koran also states that non-muslims are treated inferior to muslims, and that this would be the case if Islamic law (which you all want) is accepted in Australia. You also gave an example in another thread where non-muslims were given the choice to convert or die. So they weren't forced to practice Islam....but they had to die to avoid it. Australia and other western nations are giving in to muslim demands, a little at a time......and you know what they say, give them and inch and they'll take a mile.

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"We should always say that I may refrain from publishing a cartoon of the Prophet Mohammed, but it's because I fear you. Don't for one moment think it's because I respect you." Richard Dawkins

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Yadda

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Re: No wonder islamics are militant
Reply #141 - Oct 14^th, 2008 at 1:43pm

Lestat wrote on Oct 14^th, 2008 at 12:53pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 14^th, 2008 at 12:45pm:

Abu what do you think about that UK cleric? Why is he so highly regarded that he has been made a cleric?

Freediver,
Could you please show me any quotes in that article where the Sheikh apparently said these things?
Oh...right, there aren't any quotes..nothing but a statement that 'so and so' said 'this and that'...yet no substance, nothing to actually substantiate what the Shiekh said.
This is the classic example of a media reports which has nothing but hot air and sensationist journalism...which often only the ignorant and bigotted will fall for.

Lestat,

A different UK cleric, a similar message.....

Listen to the words from the lips of a UK muslim cleric, Anjem Choudary.

On Youtube - an interview on UK TV,
Anjem Choudary talks of the London 7/7 bombing victims,

"...when we say innocent people, we mean muslims."
"....[not accepting ISLAM] is a crime against God."
"...If you are a non-muslim, then you are guilty of not believing in God."
"...as a muslim....i must have *hatred* towards everything which is non-ISLAM."
"...[muslims] allegence is always with the muslims, so i will never condemn a muslim for what he does."
"...Britain has always been Dar al Harb [the Land of War]"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maHSOB2RFm4

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Lestat

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Re: No wonder islamics are militant
Reply #142 - Oct 14^th, 2008 at 1:44pm

jordan484 wrote on Oct 14^th, 2008 at 1:36pm:

You also gave an example in another thread where non-muslims were given the choice to convert or die. So they weren't forced to practice Islam....but they had to die to avoid it. Australia and other western nations are giving in to muslim demands, a little at a time......and you know what they say, give them and inch and they'll take a mile.

Seriously Jordan...why do you lie in order to make your point.

Show me this supposed post of mine where I gave an example of non-muslims who were given the choice to convert or die.

I can only assume that you have misunderstood...the example I provided was in fact muslims who were given these choices.

And seiously, the rest of your post is just rubbish and not worthy of a response. If you truly believe that, then truy I pity you..

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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: No wonder islamics are militant Reply #143 - Oct 14^th, 2008 at 1:50pm Lestat wrote on Oct 14^th, 2008 at 12:58pm: jordan484 wrote on Oct 14^th, 2008 at 12:55pm: Perhaps you could enlighten us then? Enlighten you with what exactly? About your trip to Africa, Captain Spolding. http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=RbyzTI0M8eo
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freediver

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Re: No wonder islamics are militant
Reply #144 - Oct 14^th, 2008 at 2:02pm

Please don't call people a psanner, or any other insult.

Lestat wrote on Oct 14^th, 2008 at 12:53pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 14^th, 2008 at 12:45pm:

Abu what do you think about that UK cleric? Why is he so highly regarded that he has been made a cleric?

Freediver,

Could you please show me any quotes in that article where the Sheikh apparently said these things?

Oh...right, there aren't any quotes..nothing but a statement that 'so and so' said 'this and that'...yet no substance, nothing to actually substantiate what the Shiekh said.

This is the classic example of a media reports which has nothing but hot air and sensationist journalism...which often only the ignorant and bigotted will fall for.

Actually there does appear to be quotes, just no quote marks.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Yadda

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Re: No wonder islamics are militant
Reply #145 - Oct 14^th, 2008 at 2:30pm

Lestat wrote on Oct 14^th, 2008 at 1:13pm:

jordan484 wrote on Oct 14^th, 2008 at 1:08pm:

Yes, I think that democracy needs to come from within, if it is to come at all.

And the Quran clealy states "There is no co-ercion in religon'. No one should be forced to practise any religon, or particular beliefs, and according to the teachings of my religon...no one is.

Poppycock!

ISLAM is a political philosophy which engages in lies and deception, against the 'unbelievers'.

i.e. ISLAM is a 'religion' for all 'seasons'.

When muslims are politically weak, they quote this verse.....

from Koran,

"Let there be no compulsion in religion......."
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/002.qmt.html#002.256

But when muslims are politically strong, they do this.....

ISLAM's teaching on those who give up ISLAM.....

Hadith

"...If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him."
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/052.sbt.html#004.052.260

From ISLAMIC law texts....

Ibn 'Abbas reported that the Prophet said: "The bare essence of Islam and the basics of the religion are three [acts], upon which Islam has been established. Whoever leaves one of them BECOMES AN UNBELIEVER and HIS BLOOD MAY LEGALLY BE SPILLED. [The acts are:] Testifying that there is no God except Allah, the obligatory prayers, and the fast of Ramadan."....
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/law/fiqhussunnah/fus3_50.html#3.110

APOSTASY IN ISLAM
"Apostasy in Islam is commonly defined as the rejection of Islam in word or deed by a person who has been a Muslim.
The FOUR MAJOR SUNNI AND THE ONE MAJOR SHIA MADH'HAB (SCHOOLS OF ISLAMIC JURISPRUDENCE) AGREE that a sane adult male apostate must be executed......"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam

++++++

Monday June 09, 2008
JORDAN: COURT ANNULS CHRISTIAN CONVERT’S MARRIAGE
"By leaving Islam, ‘apostate’ loses right because he ‘has no creed.’.....
....The North Amman Sharia Court in April dissolved the marriage of Mohammad Abbad, on trial for apostasy, or leaving Islam.
The 40-year-old convert fled Jordan with his wife and two young children in March after another Christian convert’s relatives attacked Abbad’s family in their home and his father demanded custody of Abbad’s children.
Marriage depends on the creed [religion], and the apostate has no creed, a May 22 court document stated, detailing reasons for the April 22 annulment. According to the document, Judge Faysal Khreisat had proven the veracity of [Abbad’s] apostasy."
http://www.compassdirect.org/en/display.php?page=news&lang=en&length=long&idelement=5420

Egypt Rules Christian Convert Must Remain Legally Muslim
Feb. 03 2008
An Egyptian judge ruled this week in an unprecedented case that a Muslim who converted to Christianity cannot legally change his religious status....
.....Muhammad Hegazy, 25, lost his case on Tuesday when Judge Muhammad Husseini of a court in Cairo said according to sharia, or Islamic law, Islam is the final and most complete religion and therefore Muslims already practice full freedom of religion and cannot convert to an older belief (Christianity or Judaism),
.....The judge didn’t listen to our defense, and we didn’t even have a chance to talk before the court, said Gamel Eid, head of the Arab Network for Human Rights Information (ANHRI) to U.S. Copts Association.
http://www.christianpost.com/article/20080203/egypt-rules-christian-convert-must-remain-legally-muslim.htm

Yep,

SHARIA 'JUSTICE' - for 'unbelievers'....
"......The judge didn’t listen to our defense, and we didn’t even have a chance to talk before the court,"

+++++

Death,
Within ISLAMIC 'paradises'....

Google,
Iranian parliament approves death penalty for apostasy
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=Iranian+parliament+approves+death+penalty+for+apostasy&btnG=Search&meta=

Google,
Saudi christian executed
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=Saudi+christian+executed&btnG=Search&meta=

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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jordan484

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Re: No wonder islamics are militant
Reply #146 - Oct 14^th, 2008 at 3:24pm

Quote:

Show me this supposed post of mine where I gave an example of non-muslims who were given the choice to convert or die.

Sorry, you are correct, I did read that wrong.

Quote:

Seriously Jordan...why do you lie in order to make your point.

It wasn't a lie, I made a mistake.

Quote:

I can only assume that you have misunderstood...the example I provided was in fact muslims who were given these choices.

Yes, I did.

Quote:

And seiously, the rest of your post is just rubbish and not worthy of a response. If you truly believe that, then truy I pity you..

I stand by the rest of my post, it isn't rubbish at all. Muslims are making more and more demands in western countries, have a look at the UK, it's a mess. I hope Australia has more stones and does not allow any Islamic law, custom, belief, moral or anything else to infiltrate the lives of non-Muslims in this country. I can't make you respond, that's entirely your prerogative, but please don't pity me, you know I'm not worth it!

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"We should always say that I may refrain from publishing a cartoon of the Prophet Mohammed, but it's because I fear you. Don't for one moment think it's because I respect you." Richard Dawkins

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Sprintcyclist

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Re: No wonder islamics are militant
Reply #147 - Oct 14^th, 2008 at 3:40pm

jordan - good on you for admitting your error.

seems muslims never do that - their arrogance denies that relief.
prob also tied up with that extreme arrogant idea of never kneeling before any other man.

Wonder if any of them accept/apologise for what the islamics say in your posts?
i doubt it !!!!!!!!!!! they have not so far.

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Modern Classic Right Wing

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abu_rashid

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Re: No wonder islamics are militant
Reply #148 - Oct 14^th, 2008 at 4:20pm

Yadda Yadda Yadda,

Quote:

Water off a ducks back, for me

'Straight over your head' is actually what comes to mind for me.

You've so far made about 347 points in this thread, and for the first few pages, we wasted our time addressing them, and made a few points in response, not one single point was answered by you. You just waffled on with more cut-paste jobs from anti-Islamic sites and dubious wiki articles, whilst completely ignoring every single point made to you.

Now I'm still waiting for you to show me how most of the Muslims in Australia, fled religious dictatorships, when most of them came from Lebanon and Turkey, neither of which was a religious dictatorship. Or how the migration of Jews from Iraq about 40 years after the annulment of Shari'ah law (when they'd lived under it quite fine for about 1200 years) has anything to do with Islam?

If you don't have the courtesy to respond when you've been caught out and questioned, don't expect others to respond to you.

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locutius

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Re: No wonder islamics are militant
Reply #149 - Oct 14^th, 2008 at 4:34pm

Lestat wrote on Oct 14^th, 2008 at 1:44pm:

And seiously, the rest of your post is just rubbish and not worthy of a response. If you truly believe that, then truy I pity you..

To Jordan saying this Quote:

That may be so, however, your koran also states that non-muslims are treated inferior to muslims, and that this would be the case if Islamic law (which you all want) is accepted in Australia. You also gave an example in another thread where non-muslims were given the choice to convert or die. So they weren't forced to practice Islam....but they had to die to avoid it. Australia and other western nations are giving in to muslim demands, a little at a time......and you know what they say, give them and inch and they'll take a mile.

Is this true?

Isn't this intolerence or discrimination?

How can the followers of such a position then claim to be victims of their own standard?

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I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives.

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