"...honour killings and female circumcision, to name just two -- are illegal and new immigrants are expected to adopt western standards in that regard."

Sense may be prevailing in Canada, good on them.

Honour killings and any other form of vigilantism is strictly forbidden in Islam, and anyone committing them should be brought to justice and is considered nothing but a murderer by Islam.

Here's a few links and stories for you to balance your view out a little, Christians and other religions also commit these atrocious killings of [dis]honour.

Palestinian Christian murdered by her father for wanting to marry a Muslim man.
Yezidi girl stoned to death, likewise, because she wanted to marry a Muslim man.
Pakistani Christian kills an American and Pakistani for 'honour'
Hindu man sliced to pieces for wanting to marry girl from another caste.
Muslim man murdered by Hindu relatives of his wife.
Hindu man burns his daughter, grandson and son-in-law alive because they were not of the same caste.
Sikh lady murdered for marrying a poorer man without her parents permission.
Sikh lady (70 yo.) murders her daughter-in-law for having an affair.

And actually the Bible has passages which refer to the concept of 'killing for honour', the Qur'an certainly does not.

Lev 21:9  And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire.

Or adultery for a married woman?

Oh. Ok.

Abu your signature scrolls just a little too fast to keep up with.

Well it's 12 secs. per frame, which is what it took me to comfortably read it.
Just click on it, and read the entire speech

The link is to the HP website.

But if them's the rules, them's the rules. And I shall remove it.

Interesting fact:

According to the report of the Special Rapporteur submitted to the 58th session of the United Nations Commission on Human Rights (2002), the following countries have legislative provisions allowing for partial or complete defense in the case of 'honour killings': Argentina, Ecuador, Egypt, Guatemala, Iran, Israel, Jordan, Peru, Syria, Venezuela and the Palestinian National Authority.

6 predominantly Judaeo-Christian states, and 5 predominantly Muslim states.

Haiti, Morocco, Brazil & Columbia also have legislation or had legislation in the recent past which diminishes responsibility of those killing their wife caught in the act of adultery.

According to human rights lawyer Julie Mertus "in Brazil, until 1991 wife killings were considered to be noncriminal 'honor killings'; in just one year, nearly eight hundred husbands killed their wives."

Last time I checked, Brazil was a very Christian country, perhaps it's all the Muslim immigrants that were doing it?

It's not an Islamic problem at all. Islam simply does not condone it. That's like saying it's a Catholic problem, because it's so prevalent in South American Catholic countries.

It's a problem of ignorance, and most often of societies steeped in tribalism. The Islamic texts harshly criticise tribalism on many occasions.

However, some Muslim leaders are perhaps complicit in this by not strongly criticising it enough.

I can't speak for other religions, but Islam does not promote, condone or prescribe this practise. I provided a quotation above from the Bible which does appear to condone it, as for the Hindu or Sikh texts, I couldn't say, but the Qur'an definitely does not, and as mentioned above harshly criticises those ignorant people who call for tribalism.

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As pointed out, it happens a lot in Christian South American countries and in India also.

I think what is a more plausible cause is lack of education & tribalism. Those are the factors that seem constant, not a specific religion.

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Anything that comes from my keyboard is a 'deflection' according to you, so that's not surprising. You should just put it in your signature "If this post is a reply to abu rashid, stop deflecting!"

Given that many muslims believe that Islam commands the death penalty for apostasy, I think it has something to do with Islam. Not that it is confined to Islam of course. Normally wealth is a pretty good cure for this sort of thing. Is this also true in predominantly muslim countries?

I wouldn't say completely separate. They both result in the wrongful death of a human being based on an ill conceived ideology.

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I don't like people attributing things falsely to Islam, of course not.

If the Australian laws say one thing, and some people do another... is this the fault of the Australian system? Is the Australian law responsible for a thief who robs your house? Such a claim is ridiculous. Nevermind that Islam is no longer even the law that's implemented in those countries.

we have honour killings here in oz.......abortion..

also, it is argued that in muslim countries women arent degraded in advertising with sexual images. a womans role is traditional. she runs the home, the family and extended family. in the west, dogs are allowed in the home, but grandparents are put in old peoples homes...

its easy for righteous fools to generalise about the treatment of women ion other countries, when the only experience they have of it is from MAINSTREAM MEDIA whom have an anti muslim agenda. what do you people REALLY KNOW of muslim culture besides that youve seen on 60 mins or some other zionist media outlet?

i suggest you have NONE. ZILCH. ZERO. of the hundreds of millions of muslims in the world, do you think i could find just as many WESTERN WIFE BASHERS, WIFE MURDERERS? of course i can.

so go on. hit me with some more of your parroted anti muslim mainstream media propaganda!!!!! how do you blokes even walk down the street. when you capacity to think is so dumbed down..???

abu, change your avatar, or don't post here anymore. I find it offensive.

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(speaking only for myself): I was born here, and my family's been here since about the 1850's, they probably came here for the same reasons most people (not just Muslims) did and have since, new start in a new country, not to listen to some bigoted loon rant about assimilation and backwater hick statements like "you're kind aint welcome here, we's all one kind here".

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What do you perceive is being "shoved down your throat"?

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freediver made the offer, nobody asked him to. He obviously felt it would be beneficial to the forum. Perhaps you should take it up with him.

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Actually I think you'll find about 80% of the topics about Islam were started by either sprintcyclist, jordan484 or easel.

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I don't think any Muslim would disagree there, we're mostly the victims of it remember. So why doesn't America stop funding them? It's American aid dollars that are mostly used to keep the Arab world in the condition it is in. The strongest American allies are also usually the most oppressive Arab regimes.

ive seen this sort of thing before...

people dont realise that it is discussion/argument that attracts them to forums. it is difference of opinion that encourages thar discussion. so you must have that difference to promote a healthy web site. hell, i sometimes post stuff and take a side i dont agree with, just for the debate !!!! dont scare away posters....

remember. if you believe in free speeh, you must defend those whosespeech you dont agree with. for if they are cencored, then there is no free speech.

i dont find his 'flag' offensive.....why do you mod? wouldnt you be better debating why he has a flag designed that way? what do aboriginies think of the union jack in our/their flag?

bad call mod. very bad.....

im pretty confident that there arent too many muslims that consider the possibility of a muslim australia...

more chance of an american iraq...

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now let me see..mmmm have digested your reply and swished it around the palaette...mmmm I havent changed my mind - its still very acidic and sooo on the nose.

It was " a stupid bloody statement"..and it still is  

imperial wrote on Aug 20^th, 2008 at 5:48pm:


as exampled by this offering...?

Model the behaviour you wish to see..its what Ive always been told.

Now I ll be popping off to the shop..have some goats eyes and camel steaks to be buying.

Nice to talk to you imperial.  

** deleted **

Double posting

I know it wasn't right, but it gives me the giggles.

Abu, in the interests of democracy (something you oppose), freedom of expression (something you also oppose) and Western values (another thing you oppose) you are welcome to post here pretty much whatever you like with whatever avatar you so desire.

Also, Jesus loves you.