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honour killings (Read 14245 times)
abu_rashid
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Re: honour killings
Reply #15 - Aug 19th, 2008 at 3:35pm
 
Interesting fact:

According to the report of the Special Rapporteur submitted to the 58th session of the United Nations Commission on Human Rights (2002), the following countries have legislative provisions allowing for partial or complete defense in the case of 'honour killings': Argentina, Ecuador, Egypt, Guatemala, Iran, Israel, Jordan, Peru, Syria, Venezuela and the Palestinian National Authority.

6 predominantly Judaeo-Christian states, and 5 predominantly Muslim states.

Haiti, Morocco, Brazil & Columbia also have legislation or had legislation in the recent past which diminishes responsibility of those killing their wife caught in the act of adultery.

According to human rights lawyer Julie Mertus "in Brazil, until 1991 wife killings were considered to be noncriminal 'honor killings'; in just one year, nearly eight hundred husbands killed their wives."

Last time I checked, Brazil was a very Christian country, perhaps it's all the Muslim immigrants that were doing it?
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jordan484
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Re: honour killings
Reply #16 - Aug 19th, 2008 at 4:19pm
 
This isn't a muslim only problem, but it is a muslim problem too, so to always deflect onto other religions to try to excuse your own is a cop out.

I think it's prevalent in countries whose culture and religion have combined to oppress women, to make them powerless and who see them as commodities that have the ability to embarrass families. Islam is part of that problem.
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"We should always say that I may refrain from publishing a cartoon of the Prophet Mohammed, but it's because I fear you. Don't for one moment think it's because I respect you." Richard Dawkins
 
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abu_rashid
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Re: honour killings
Reply #17 - Aug 19th, 2008 at 5:11pm
 
It's not an Islamic problem at all. Islam simply does not condone it. That's like saying it's a Catholic problem, because it's so prevalent in South American Catholic countries.

It's a problem of ignorance, and most often of societies steeped in tribalism. The Islamic texts harshly criticise tribalism on many occasions.

However, some Muslim leaders are perhaps complicit in this by not strongly criticising it enough.

I can't speak for other religions, but Islam does not promote, condone or prescribe this practise. I provided a quotation above from the Bible which does appear to condone it, as for the Hindu or Sikh texts, I couldn't say, but the Qur'an definitely does not, and as mentioned above harshly criticises those ignorant people who call for tribalism.
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jordan484
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Re: honour killings
Reply #18 - Aug 19th, 2008 at 6:10pm
 
Well something has gone astray, because it happens a lot in Muslim countries, and I have stated why I think that's so.

It's also fairly typical of you being in denial about an issue, deflecting to other problems or sweeping it under the rug.
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"We should always say that I may refrain from publishing a cartoon of the Prophet Mohammed, but it's because I fear you. Don't for one moment think it's because I respect you." Richard Dawkins
 
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abu_rashid
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Re: honour killings
Reply #19 - Aug 19th, 2008 at 6:18pm
 
Quote:
Well something has gone astray, because it happens a lot in Muslim countries


As pointed out, it happens a lot in Christian South American countries and in India also.

I think what is a more plausible cause is lack of education & tribalism. Those are the factors that seem constant, not a specific religion.

Quote:
It's also fairly typical of you being in denial about an issue, deflecting to other problems or sweeping it under the rug.


Anything that comes from my keyboard is a 'deflection' according to you, so that's not surprising. You should just put it in your signature "If this post is a reply to abu rashid, stop deflecting!"
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jordan484
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Re: honour killings
Reply #20 - Aug 19th, 2008 at 6:27pm
 
I'm sure you can see you're doing it.

Nevertheless, I already said it wasn't a Muslim only problem, but it is a Muslim problem and the reason is the way Islam regards it's women, combined with countries that are still developing and have certain attitudes towards women in general. Islam doesn't help this. Lack of education for women doesn't help either.
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Re: honour killings
Reply #21 - Aug 19th, 2008 at 7:01pm
 
Given that many muslims believe that Islam commands the death penalty for apostasy, I think it has something to do with Islam. Not that it is confined to Islam of course. Normally wealth is a pretty good cure for this sort of thing. Is this also true in predominantly muslim countries?
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abu_rashid
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Re: honour killings
Reply #22 - Aug 19th, 2008 at 7:22pm
 
Honour killings have got nothing to do with the death penalty.

The two issues are completely seperate.
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jordan484
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Re: honour killings
Reply #23 - Aug 19th, 2008 at 7:24pm
 
I wouldn't say completely separate. They both result in the wrongful death of a human being based on an ill conceived ideology.
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"We should always say that I may refrain from publishing a cartoon of the Prophet Mohammed, but it's because I fear you. Don't for one moment think it's because I respect you." Richard Dawkins
 
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bliss
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Re: honour killings
Reply #24 - Aug 19th, 2008 at 7:54pm
 
I provided a quotation above from the Bible which does appear to condone it, as for the Hindu or Sikh texts, I couldn't say, but the Qur'an definitely does not, and as mentioned above harshly criticises those ignorant people who call for tribalism.

Who cares!!!!!!!! This is about people picking and choosing rules for what they want from where they want to justify certain actions, whatever religion. It's in the bible......IT'S UNACCEPTABLE. It's not in the Qur'an, Muslims do it........IT'S STILL UNACCEPTABLE.  I choose to live my life by taking responsibility for my own actions. I don't hide behind rules and laws found in books such as the bible or the other. Human Rights should be based on respect and possibly love for others (ok, a bit idealistic but that's how I like to live). Mr Abu, I get the sense that you don't really like anyone making a statement that addresses Islamic issues in a negative light yet are quick to respond with an attack on others' beliefs.
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abu_rashid
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Re: honour killings
Reply #25 - Aug 19th, 2008 at 10:39pm
 
Quote:
Mr Abu, I get the sense that you don't really like anyone making a statement that addresses Islamic issues in a negative light yet are quick to respond with an attack on others' beliefs.


I don't like people attributing things falsely to Islam, of course not.

If the Australian laws say one thing, and some people do another... is this the fault of the Australian system? Is the Australian law responsible for a thief who robs your house? Such a claim is ridiculous. Nevermind that Islam is no longer even the law that's implemented in those countries.
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Re: honour killings
Reply #26 - Aug 20th, 2008 at 3:19pm
 
abu_rashid wrote on Aug 19th, 2008 at 10:39pm:
Quote:
Mr Abu, I get the sense that you don't really like anyone making a statement that addresses Islamic issues in a negative light yet are quick to respond with an attack on others' beliefs.


I don't like people attributing things falsely to Islam, of course not.

If the Australian laws say one thing, and some people do another... is this the fault of the Australian system? Is the Australian law responsible for a thief who robs your house? Such a claim is ridiculous. Nevermind that Islam is no longer even the law that's implemented in those countries.


Why do Muslims come here at all.?

Now thats a good question.!!

Our culture and Islamic culture are too different and I think the average Aussie is sick of having it shoved down our throats.

I wonder if on a Muslim run board..if there was a seperate board for Australian culture and beliefs..yeah right!!..and I wonder if on a Muslim run board..if the Aussie posters would be arrogant and selfish to infect every topic with their cultural  crap ..thinking everyone is automatically fascinated by it.
WE ARE NOT.

I dont give a rats arse mate.

Human rights of women and children in Arab countries is appalling..your monotonous ravings don't convince ANYONE!!!!








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imperial
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Re: honour killings
Reply #27 - Aug 20th, 2008 at 3:26pm
 
we have honour killings here in oz.......abortion..

also, it is argued that in muslim countries women arent degraded in advertising with sexual images. a womans role is traditional. she runs the home, the family and extended family. in the west, dogs are allowed in the home, but grandparents are put in old peoples homes...

its easy for righteous fools to generalise about the treatment of women ion other countries, when the only experience they have of it is from MAINSTREAM MEDIA whom have an anti muslim agenda. what do you people REALLY KNOW of muslim culture besides that youve seen on 60 mins or some other zionist media outlet?

i suggest you have NONE. ZILCH. ZERO. of the hundreds of millions of muslims in the world, do you think i could find just as many WESTERN WIFE BASHERS, WIFE MURDERERS? of course i can.

so go on. hit me with some more of your parroted anti muslim mainstream media propaganda!!!!! how do you blokes even walk down the street. when you capacity to think is so dumbed down..???
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« Last Edit: Aug 20th, 2008 at 3:36pm by imperial »  
 
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oceanz
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Re: honour killings
Reply #28 - Aug 20th, 2008 at 3:42pm
 
imperial wrote on Aug 20th, 2008 at 3:26pm:
we have honour killings here in oz.......abortion..


Oh my bloody god..thats the most stupid statement Ive ever heard.

Just stop right there imperial..I think i can learn tooo much from you?     Wink
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&&Jade Rawlings on Cousins " He makes our team walk taller..a very good team man , Ben Cousins"
 
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Re: honour killings
Reply #29 - Aug 20th, 2008 at 4:18pm
 
abu, change your avatar, or don't post here anymore. I find it offensive.
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