Australian Politics Forum - Islam and science

freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 53324 At my desk.	Re: Islam and science Reply #30 - Jul 10^th, 2008 at 6:50pm So the US is as bad as the mongol empire? That's a bit overdramatic don't you think malik?
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Malik Shakur

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Re: Islam and science
Reply #31 - Jul 10^th, 2008 at 7:00pm

freediver wrote on Jul 10^th, 2008 at 6:50pm:

So the US is as bad as the mongol empire? That's a bit overdramatic don't you think malik?

I hardly call more than one million innocent Iraqis dead now due to the invasion and continual occupation of Iraq as something which is overdramatic FD.

Note I'm speaking about the US Government, not the US people.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 53324 At my desk.	Re: Islam and science Reply #32 - Jul 10^th, 2008 at 7:04pm Do you think the US government actually wants to occupy the territory indefinately? Do you really think they want to rape, pillage and destroy? Do you think the US government has benefitted economically from the war?
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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 41983 Gender:	Re: Islam and science Reply #33 - Jul 10^th, 2008 at 8:24pm malik - and how many of those did islamics blow up?? it's muslims killing muslims
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abu_rashid

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Re: Islam and science
Reply #34 - Jul 10^th, 2008 at 11:15pm

freediver,

They now got control of the largest swath of oil in the world, I think they've done quite dandy out of it. Not to mention all the looting they did of the museums, do you know how much all that Babylonian and Sumerian stuff is worth???

Not just that, they prevented anyone else from getting in there first, which alone is motivation enough.

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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 41983 Gender:	Re: Islam and science Reply #35 - Jul 10^th, 2008 at 11:47pm The war in iraq costs US BILLIONS of dollars per day !!! US still has to buy oil. It was not an economic decision
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Malik Shakur

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Re: Islam and science
Reply #36 - Jul 11^th, 2008 at 2:42am

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 10^th, 2008 at 11:47pm:

The war in iraq costs US BILLIONS of dollars per day !!!

US still has to buy oil.

It was not an economic decision

yes, but george bush's cronies are making trillions out of it with the contracts handed out you.. the people of the US suffer as the rest of us do.. but it was never for the people.. the people are lambs to the slaughter for the cause..

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Malik Shakur

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Re: Islam and science
Reply #37 - Jul 11^th, 2008 at 2:45am

freediver wrote on Jul 10^th, 2008 at 7:04pm:

Do you think the US government actually wants to occupy the territory indefinately? Do you really think they want to rape, pillage and destroy? Do you think the US government has benefitted economically from the war?

certain elements in the government have of course and their cronies..

and yes, i think they want to create a civil war in iraq so they can maintain a stronghold on iraqi politics..

iraq is far worse off now than it was under saddam.. if the west were serious in getting rid of him they would have supported the people who rose up in the first gulf war and took control of iraq's second largest city when george bush snr asked them too.. they rose up and the US didn't help them at all, they didn't even protect them from iraqi gunships and jets..

so thousands upon thousands of brave people who stood up were murdered..

if the west were serious they wouldn't have done that..

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abu_rashid Gold Member Offline Aussie Muslim Posts: 8353	Re: Islam and science Reply #38 - Jul 11^th, 2008 at 3:38am If they were serious about it they wouldn't have funded him to begin with. Rumsfeld wouldn't have been there selling back in the 80's when he was preparing to gas the Iranians and Kurds.
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freediver

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At my desk.

Re: Islam and science
Reply #39 - Sep 25^th, 2008 at 10:12am

Why did it take them 300 years to build another observatory?

What Went Wrong? By Bernard Lewis

http://books.google.com.au/books?
id=SmrdqwESEq0C&pg=PA80&lpg=PA80&dq=TaqI+al-
+Dm's+observatory+razed&source=web&ots=w08X3gOq1N&sig=1xxY
w312Mnuj4h2BDcBkRcpkM38&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1
&ct=result

page 80

Another example of the widening gap may be seen in the fate of the great observatory built in Galata, in Istanbul, in 1557. This was due to the initiative of Taqi al-Din (ca. 1526-1585), a major figure in Muslim scientific history and the author of several books on astronomy, optics, and mechanical clocks. Born in Syria or Egypt (the sources differ), he studied in Cairo, and after a career as a jurist and theologian he went to Istanbul, where in 1571 he was appointed munejjim-basbi, astronomer (and astrologer) in chief to the Sultan Selim II. A few years later he persuaded the new Sultan Murad III to allow him to build an observatory, comparable in its technical equipment and its specialist personnel with that of his celebrated contemporary, the Danish astronomer Tycho Brahe. But there the comparison ends. Tycho Brahe's observatory and the work accomplished in it opened the way to a vast new development of astonomical science. Taqi al-Din's observatory was razed to the ground by a squad of Janissaries, by order of the sultan, on the recommendation of the Chief Mufti. The observatory had many predecessors in the lands of Islam; it had no successors until the age of modernization.

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Lestat

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Re: Islam and science
Reply #40 - Sep 25^th, 2008 at 10:44am

freediver wrote on Sep 25^th, 2008 at 10:12am:

Why did it take them 300 years to build another observatory?

What Went Wrong? By Bernard Lewis

http://books.google.com.au/books?
id=SmrdqwESEq0C&pg=PA80&lpg=PA80&dq=TaqI+al-
+Dm's+observatory+razed&source=web&ots=w08X3gOq1N&sig=1xxY
w312Mnuj4h2BDcBkRcpkM38&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1
&ct=result

page 80

Another example of the widening gap may be seen in the fate of the great observatory built in Galata, in Istanbul, in 1557. This was due to the initiative of Taqi al-Din (ca. 1526-1585), a major figure in Muslim scientific history and the author of several books on astronomy, optics, and mechanical clocks. Born in Syria or Egypt (the sources differ), he studied in Cairo, and after a career as a jurist and theologian he went to Istanbul, where in 1571 he was appointed munejjim-basbi, astronomer (and astrologer) in chief to the Sultan Selim II. A few years later he persuaded the new Sultan Murad III to allow him to build an observatory, comparable in its technical equipment and its specialist personnel with that of his celebrated contemporary, the Danish astronomer Tycho Brahe. But there the comparison ends. Tycho Brahe's observatory and the work accomplished in it opened the way to a vast new development of astonomical science. Taqi al-Din's observatory was razed to the ground by a squad of Janissaries, by order of the sultan, on the recommendation of the Chief Mufti. The observatory had many predecessors in the lands of Islam; it had no successors until the age of modernization.

Have actually read this book, and it was rather poor read to say the least. Then again, it is written by Bernad 'I love to Generalise' Lewis. The guy has no idea and is one of the poorer Orientists I have come across.

THen again I can understand why you'd admire his writing.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 53324 At my desk.	Re: Islam and science Reply #41 - Sep 25^th, 2008 at 10:52am Did you know that argumentum ad hominem is a logical fallacy? Why did it take them 300 years to build another observatory?
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Lestat

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Re: Islam and science
Reply #42 - Sep 25^th, 2008 at 11:02am

freediver wrote on Sep 25^th, 2008 at 10:52am:

Did you know that argumentum ad hominem is a logical fallacy?

What...aren't I allowed to have an opinion? I've got the book at home, have read it, and I believe it is a rather poor read.

Edward Said has picked his views apart and ripped them to shreds. Have you read the book Fd?

freediver wrote on Sep 25^th, 2008 at 10:52am:

Why did it take them 300 years to build another observatory?

You already know the answer...so why ask it?

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 53324 At my desk.	Re: Islam and science Reply #43 - Sep 25^th, 2008 at 11:04am You already know the answer...so why ask it? No I don't. It is not a rhetorical question. Of course I have strong suspicions. Are you saying my suspicions are correct?
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locutius Gold Member Offline You can't fight in here! It's the War Room Posts: 1817 Queensland Gender:	Re: Islam and science Reply #44 - Sep 25^th, 2008 at 12:00pm If Lestast won't elaborate, what are your suspicions F.D. I have no answer so I am curious. I won't hold that you are making a statement of fact, as you have said they are suspicions.
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