http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1214380323/11#11

Coincidentally, I've posted 2 comments on the Personal freedoms, rights and Australian values thread. There, I highlighted the neo-theocratic Christian Recontructionism and Dominionism movements whose values includes reverting back to OT biblical laws or the 613 Laws over secular law.

In answer to your question on what kind of Christianity do I believe in.... I don't. I believe in secular law and ethical conduct. I believe in "Liberté, Equalité, Fraternité". I believe that there is no right or wrong argument when it comes to religion. Arguing is futile because no one is going to be convinced. Enlightenment is a personal discovery of self. It is not achieved because someone tells you something. It is achieved when you discover the truth that is true only to you. You believe in what you are compelled to believe in. It's your choice and your enlightenment. I respect that as long as you respect my choices.

Everyone is wrong because everyone believes that they are right. You will never have the moral high ground simply because of the fact that you believe that the moral high ground belongs only to you. I say this in reference to Jews, Christians and Muslims. The blinding fact is that you all have a very violent and interconnecting history (and present). It written down in all your respected Books. It's convenient to simply ignore them or brush them aside when arguing your point.

It's a matter of interpretation. Sure. However, its that people do interpret them to their own agenda is where conflicts arise. You only have to read up on people like Abraham Kuyper, Francis Schaeffer, Shiek Hilali, Abu Bakr Bashir, Rousas John Rushdoony, George Grant, Osama bn Ladin to see that sacred writings are in the eye of the beholder. It is each religion's (Christianity and Islam) responsibility to teach the correct interpretation and reign back thoses who misrepresent. I am empathetic to the Islamic religion and Muslim culture but I do understand Sprint's bigotry (although I cringe everytime he misquotes or misrepresents). The islamic world has been very inactive in the reigning in of extremism. Very vocal against it, yes. But, not a lot of action. 1.6 billion Muslims (the largest religion) and yet a few hundred thousand (million!) extremist seems to be hard to handle. Western countries (read: Christian) have reigned in extreme ideas quite efficiently. Take for example Intelligent Design (a Christian infused subject) which tried to manifest itself within our secular education. It has been rebuted and overwhelmingly knocked back in this Christian society.

Citing Wahhabism and terrorists as an indicator of Islam while ignoring Dominionism and Reconstructionism in Christianity; or citing the crusades and the inquisition as examples of Christianity while ignoring hate clerics and terrorists justifying their actions on the Qur'an, negates the moral high of both sides.

Anyway, these are my views as a secularist. Keep fighting the good fight!

Acid - that is a very thoughtful and valid posting.
It is much more worthy of its own thread and I thoroughly encourage you to start a thread with that topic.

Much better to keep topics aligned.

Abu - thanks for starting this thread. 2nd half of the state of origin, see you afte rthat !!!!!!!!!

acid - off topic happens.
But I still encourage you to start oyur own threaon your topic.
I thought it was very good, and coming from a neutral viewpoint would be better.

Thanks for your reply sprint.

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But aren't some parts of it still valid according to Christians, like the 10 Commandments?

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So you think polygamy is valid practise for Jews?

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SDA are one of the more interesting Christian groups. I remember when I first debated with one of them, as they brought something so powerful, yet so simple. Why do you celebrate on Sunday? when there's absolutely no scriptural basis for it. The scriptural basis is for the Sabbath (meaning seventh day in Hebrew, and Arabic btw). So how do you explain this according to your beliefs about the OT and it's irrelevance in Christian's lives?

As for birthdays, I can see their point. There's absolutely no Christian basis for it whatsoever, nor Islamic basis either for that matter, and I personally do not celebrate birthdays.

The word "religion" actually comes from the Latin word meaning "to bind", so I dunno, you tell me?

If your religion doesn't control you, then how is it really a religion? Even according to mainstream Christian doctrine, your love for Jesus is supposed to control your actions isn't it?

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2008 at 11:46pm:


Not in my universe  unless you include Bundaberg Rum.

Very good point muso, I don't know how Christians can claim that the OT is not to be followed, when it's quite strikingly clear in this verse. Instead they twist and interpret verses from other books that are very unclear, just to try and stamp out the practises of the OT, like polygamy for example.

I really don't know the procedures Christian scholars take to decide which verse is considered authoritative over another, when an apparent contradiction appears, but in Islam, if a clearly worded verse says something, and a vaguer verse appears to point to the opposite, it's quite obivous which one is considered authoritative on the matter.