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Climate Change Debate (Read 26290 times)
muso
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Re: Climate Change Debate
Reply #120 - Oct 9th, 2008 at 3:08pm
 
Let's recap on your position PJB. It's been a while since I had enough time to talk to you on the subject. I'd like to explore at which point your understanding breaks down.

1. You understand that the CO2 in the Earth's atmosphere is currently at around 385ppm (seasonally adjusted )
2. You realise that the level of CO2 has increased around 25% since the 1950's and around 30% since the industrial revolution(I think)

3. You realise that  through Isotopic measurements, the increase in CO2 can be attributed to the burning of fossil fuel (true or false?)

4.  You understand that the highest atmospheric CO2 levels from 1800 back 1 million years was about 300ppm? (true of false)

5. You realise that variations in temperature in the pre industrial region has a direct effect on the equilibium concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere (I'm not sure where you stand on this one)

- and let's try not to mention red herrings like Al Gore.
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tallowood
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Re: Climate Change Debate
Reply #121 - Dec 1st, 2008 at 8:56am
 
reef coral bleaching

Quote:
The Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Authority is using data from the weather bureau to formulate its yearly forecast, which indicates there is a high risk the bleaching will be widespread.

The authority's Dr Paul Marshall says global warming is having a significant impact on the ocean.

"So particular species of coral reef fish that depend on coral either for food or for shelter, but those very very hot summers that affect the corals also affect many other sorts of plants and animals as well," he said.

"Seagrasses suffer a great deal from hot temperatures, sea birds and turtles can also suffer, particularly when they're nesting."
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עַם יִשְרָאֵל חַי
 
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muso
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Re: Climate Change Debate
Reply #122 - Dec 1st, 2008 at 9:03am
 
tallowood wrote on Dec 1st, 2008 at 8:56am:
reef coral bleaching

Quote:
The Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Authority is using data from the weather bureau to formulate its yearly forecast, which indicates there is a high risk the bleaching will be widespread.

The authority's Dr Paul Marshall says global warming is having a significant impact on the ocean.

"So particular species of coral reef fish that depend on coral either for food or for shelter, but those very very hot summers that affect the corals also affect many other sorts of plants and animals as well," he said.

"Seagrasses suffer a great deal from hot temperatures, sea birds and turtles can also suffer, particularly when they're nesting."


- and that's in a La Nina year too.  Shocked
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Classic Liberal
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Re: Climate Change Debate
Reply #123 - Dec 1st, 2008 at 10:02pm
 
muso wrote on Oct 9th, 2008 at 3:08pm:
Let's recap on your position PJB. It's been a while since I had enough time to talk to you on the subject. I'd like to explore at which point your understanding breaks down.

1. You understand that the CO2 in the Earth's atmosphere is currently at around 385ppm (seasonally adjusted )
2. You realise that the level of CO2 has increased around 25% since the 1950's and around 30% since the industrial revolution(I think)

3. You realise that  through Isotopic measurements, the increase in CO2 can be attributed to the burning of fossil fuel (true or false?)

4.  You understand that the highest atmospheric CO2 levels from 1800 back 1 million years was about 300ppm? (true of false)

5. You realise that variations in temperature in the pre industrial region has a direct effect on the equilibium concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere (I'm not sure where you stand on this one)

- and let's try not to mention red herrings like Al Gore.


do you realise that activity of the sun has increased at a very similar rate to the temperatures of earth throughout history, while co2 has not?

there are other theories out there
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« Last Edit: Dec 1st, 2008 at 10:18pm by Classic Liberal »  
 
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muso
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Re: Climate Change Debate
Reply #124 - Dec 2nd, 2008 at 8:59am
 
Classic Liberal wrote on Dec 1st, 2008 at 10:02pm:
muso wrote on Oct 9th, 2008 at 3:08pm:
Let's recap on your position PJB. It's been a while since I had enough time to talk to you on the subject. I'd like to explore at which point your understanding breaks down.

1. You understand that the CO2 in the Earth's atmosphere is currently at around 385ppm (seasonally adjusted )
2. You realise that the level of CO2 has increased around 25% since the 1950's and around 30% since the industrial revolution(I think)

3. You realise that  through Isotopic measurements, the increase in CO2 can be attributed to the burning of fossil fuel (true or false?)

4.  You understand that the highest atmospheric CO2 levels from 1800 back 1 million years was about 300ppm? (true of false)

5. You realise that variations in temperature in the pre industrial region has a direct effect on the equilibium concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere (I'm not sure where you stand on this one)

- and let's try not to mention red herrings like Al Gore.


do you realise that activity of the sun has increased at a very similar rate to the temperatures of earth throughout history, while co2 has not?

there are other theories out there



Pender - that is partially correct. The CO2 and temperatures have trended quite closely in the pre industrial past (See the Vostok CO2 and temperature plots). Much of this large scale variation can be attributed to changes in the sun's activity and 'orbital' factors - the Milankovitch cycles.   However the crux of the matter is that any such correlation went well and truly off the wall in the last 50 years.

As I explained in the other thread, the Solar Irradiance as measured by several independent authorities has roughly followed the ENSO (El Nino Southern Oscillation) cycle, however the CO2 increased by 30 % and there has been an increase in Global temperatures too.

In other words, what we have seen in the last 50 years can not be explained by solar irradiance (which is due to a combination of activity and orbital factors)

I'm happy to go over the data with you if you like, but let's stick to the researchers who actually collected the data in the first place.  
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PeterSon_12k
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Clean Coal Power
Reply #125 - Dec 30th, 2008 at 10:47pm
 
Climate Change is happening due to the carbon emissions and pollutants released from the Coal.

There is a major role for "Clean Coal Technology" to protect the Climate Change.
Follow the Link:sp@m/
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muso
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Re: Clean Coal Power
Reply #126 - Jan 4th, 2009 at 3:21pm
 
PeterSon_12k wrote on Dec 30th, 2008 at 10:47pm:
Climate Change is happening due to the carbon emissions and pollutants released from the Coal.

There is a major role for "Clean Coal Technology" to protect the Climate Change.
Follow the Link:sp@m/



It may not be the best option for the long run, but I don't think we can afford to ignore one clean energy source and rely on only one. The advantage of coal is that it's quite a concentrated energy source. If we can beat the problem of effective sequestration with losses of less than 0.1% per annum, then it's doable.
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PeterSon_12k
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Re: Climate Change Debate
Reply #127 - Jan 5th, 2009 at 3:17pm
 
Climate change is happening due to the increase of CO2 emissions in the environment.CO2 emissions are coming from the Coal produced plants.Coal is a very dirty renewable energy source which cause Global Warming and release very dangerous chemicals.But there is a technology called "Clean Coal Technology" can purify the pollutants coming from Coal and makes the coal very clean.

But this technology would cost high amounts of dallors and this became a big challenge to the Government.

Follow the Link:sp@m/ Cool
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PeterSon_12k
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Reply #128 - Jan 5th, 2009 at 3:22pm
 
Coal gasification offers one of the most clean and versatile ways to convert the energy contained in coal into electricity, hydrogen, and other sources of power. Turning coal into synthetic gas isn't a new concept, in fact the basic technology dates back to World War II.

During the gasification process, coal is subjected to heat, pressure, and steam - catalysts, breaking the coal down into various gases, mostly hydrogen. The resulting gases can then be burned to generate electricity and the waste heat created by the process used for co generation.

Coal gasification plants are cleaner than standard pulverized coal combustion facilities, producing fewer sulfur and nitrogen byproducts, which contribute to smog and acid rain. For this reason, gasification appeals as a way to utilize relatively inexpensive and expansive coal reserves, while reducing the environment impact.

Pioneering coal gasification electric power plants are now operating commercially in the United States and in other nations. These plants produce significant quantities of syngas from a variety of feedstocks and produce a wide variety of products.

The mounting interest in coal gasification technology reflects a convergence of three changes in the electricity generation marketplace. These changes are:

  1 .The increasing maturity of gasification technology;
  2. The extremely low emissions from Integrated Gasification Combined Cycle (IGCC) plants, especially air emissions, and the potential for lower cost control of greenhouse gases than other coal-based systems; and
   3.  The recent dramatic fluctuations in the costs associated with natural gas based power, which is viewed as a major competitor to coal based power.

Follow the Link:sp@m/ Embarrassed
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PeterSon_12k
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Reply #129 - Dec 30th, 2008 at 10:26pm
 
Thar Coal Mining Company (TCMC) has been activated for the purpose of supplying coal to the prospective Independent Power Producers (IPPs).

The key world-players like Mitsui & Co of Japan and AES Corporation of the USA are willing to invest to the tune of over one billion dollars each in Pakistan to set up the respective 1,000-1,200 MW integrated power plants based on imported coal and developing its related infrastructure.

    We saw recently that, as the price of oil rises, the coal industry is planning to replace oil by turning coal into liquid fuels and into feed stocks for the chemical industry. Of course they are also planning to burn ever-more coal to produce electricity. If these plans materialize, green chemistry and renewable solar energy both will be sidelined for the rest of this century.

There's one major problem with the coal industry's plans, and that's carbon dioxide, the most important global warming gas. Therefore, the coal industry's plans all hinge on the development of "clean coal" -- a clever name for an untested idea, burying billions or trillions of tons of liquid, pressurized carbon dioxide in the ground, hoping it will stay there forever. Burying CO2 is called "carbon capture and storage."

The coal industry has spent hundreds of millions promoting ‘Clean Coal’ technology, but in reality, there is not a single large-scale demonstration project in the United States for capturing and safely burying all of coal’s CO2 emissions,” Gore said. “The industry must make good its promise if they truly want to do their part to solve the climate crisis. Until that happens, coal cannot be called ‘Clean.’”  

Follow the Link:sp@m
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mozzaok
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Re: Climate Change Debate
Reply #130 - Jan 5th, 2009 at 11:50pm
 
Isn't "CLEAN COAL" an oxymoron?

Like, "an honest politician".
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OOPS!!! My Karma, ran over your Dogma!
 
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muso
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Re: Climate Change Debate
Reply #131 - Jan 6th, 2009 at 8:00am
 
Put it this way, unless we develop clean coal technology, there will either be a huge energy deficit in the next 100 years or civilisation will go retrograde (or both).

On the balance, development of clean coal power generation may actually be more important than biofuels. Time will tell.
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pjb05
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Re: Climate Change Debate
Reply #132 - Jan 6th, 2009 at 1:03pm
 
All the elements of clean coal technology have been proven in practice, they just haven't been put together on a large scale to capture power station emissions.
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Re: Climate Change Debate
Reply #133 - Jan 6th, 2009 at 1:11pm
 
I think it's best to view it in economic terms. If it is likely to be a cheaper strategy to make our initial emissions reductions via clean coal, then we should do it.
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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.
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muso
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Re: Climate Change Debate
Reply #134 - Jan 6th, 2009 at 3:20pm
 
pjb05 wrote on Jan 6th, 2009 at 1:03pm:
All the elements of clean coal technology have been proven in practice, they just haven't been put together on a large scale to capture power station emissions.  



The first one in Australia is being constructed not too far from where I live, but I'm sure that I read somewhere that a Clean Coal Power Station was already in operation in Germany somewhere.

http://news.theage.com.au/national/clean-coal-project-goes-ahead-in-qld-20081113...
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