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Keating wins argument with dead man (Read 7620 times)
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Re: Keating wins argument with dead man
Reply #15 - Feb 6th, 2008 at 9:46pm
 
Do carry on, DT.  All the one eyed stupid people will be with you.

(Sorry freediver, but trying to engage this bloke sensibly is way beyond my patience level.  Over to someone else to assist raising his post count.)
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IQSRLOW
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Re: Keating wins argument with dead man
Reply #16 - Feb 7th, 2008 at 1:20am
 
(Sorry freediver, but trying to engage this bloke sensibly is way beyond my patience level.  Over to someone else to assist raising his post count.)

= (I am not able to counter DT's sensible posts that are filled with logic so I will now ignore them because I have been bested and shown to be an ignoramus)
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Re: Keating wins argument with dead man
Reply #17 - Feb 7th, 2008 at 6:08am
 
Put simply - Rudd's in because we couldn't stand Howard anymore.  The guy communicated on one level only - make as much money as quickly as you can and stuff the consequences.  He was a bulldozer ramming through legislation almost daily.

Of course money is important, but what's the point of being wealthy if you can't get your sick child in to see a qualified doctor in emergency because of the shortage of doctors and nurses.   What's the point of having a booming mining industry if their waste products pollute the environment, harm people and leak toxins into our underground water basins and why sign international human rights treaties if you're not going to abide by them?  

In fact Howard emanated Keating to a certain extent, but was more extreme.  But he just didn't have the charisma and as soon as he opened his mouth - few of us, apart from the die hard liberals, believed anything he said.  There was always a double meaning and more often or not, his generosity extended only to those who were wealthy. 

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« Last Edit: Feb 7th, 2008 at 6:18am by mantra »  
 
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Re: Keating wins argument with dead man
Reply #18 - Feb 7th, 2008 at 7:24am
 
mantra wrote on Feb 7th, 2008 at 6:08am:
Put simply - Rudd's in because we couldn't stand Howard anymore.  The guy communicated on one level only - make as much money as quickly as you can and stuff the consequences.  He was a bulldozer ramming through legislation almost daily.

Of course money is important, but what's the point of being wealthy if you can't get your sick child in to see a qualified doctor in emergency because of the shortage of doctors and nurses.   What's the point of having a booming mining industry if their waste products pollute the environment, harm people and leak toxins into our underground water basins and why sign international human rights treaties if you're not going to abide by them?  

In fact Howard emanated Keating to a certain extent, but was more extreme.  But he just didn't have the charisma and as soon as he opened his mouth - few of us, apart from the die hard liberals, believed anything he said.  There was always a double meaning and more often or not, his generosity extended only to those who were wealthy.  



I expect you had both hands over your ears then.

Today the lowest income earners pay very little income tax, they have targetted welfare which boosts their incomes and they get a raft of benefits never before seen in Australia, like the baby bonus, first home owners grant, family benefits, medicare safety net etc.

At no other point in Australia's history have the most disadvantaged been catered for.

But it has been difficult to get the benefit to them at times due to the rapacity of State Liebor Governments who care nothing for people.  A good example is when John Howard increased the old age pension to cover a rise in costs which may have been experienced by the introduction of the GST.  So what did the NSW Liebor Government do to help those on fixed incomes?   Increased its rents of public housing to get more money from the newly enriched poor people.

Now the money for rents is paid as a subsidy to avoid Liebor State Governments digging deep into the pockets of the disadvantaged.

John Howard did what Keating didn't want to do - he helped ordinary people.   Keating made Skase, Bond, Holmes a Court, Murdoch, Packer et al very very rich.  And he crushed the spirits of Australia with his artificial 'recession we had to have'.  The only person that suited was him.
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mantra
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Re: Keating wins argument with dead man
Reply #19 - Feb 7th, 2008 at 9:42am
 
Quote:
Today the lowest income earners pay very little income tax, they have targetted welfare which boosts their incomes and they get a raft of benefits never before seen in Australia, like the baby bonus, first home owners grant, family benefits, medicare safety net etc.


First of all in regard to the medicare safety net etc.  This is excellent for those with large families or for those who can afford to see a specialist - even plastic surgery.  As long as it's done on the specialists' premises it is reimbursed.  For single people and those on low incomes it is useless.  The net is $1000 for a worker and $700 for a pensioner.   How many specialist visits, providing you can afford to see one, would it take for this safety net to kick in. 

What has the baby bonus done for us.  It has encouraged drug addicts, irresponsible youth and those not in a position to raise a child decently to have children.  Child abuse in NSW has escalated four fold since the baby bonus was introduced.   As far as family benefits go - yes it does appear to be very generous and allows those on good incomes to pay no tax.  As far as the benefits go - this has resulted in a fatter nation with obesity in Australia escalating, but the purpose has been to increase consumerism and this has worked because our nation's debt is now $1 trillion, which is the worth of the economy.



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Re: Keating wins argument with dead man
Reply #20 - Feb 7th, 2008 at 10:15am
 
Child abuse in NSW has escalated four fold since the baby bonus was introduced.

Can you link me to more info on that please mantra?
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Re: Keating wins argument with dead man
Reply #21 - Feb 7th, 2008 at 7:11pm
 
mantra wrote on Feb 7th, 2008 at 9:42am:
Quote:
Today the lowest income earners pay very little income tax, they have targetted welfare which boosts their incomes and they get a raft of benefits never before seen in Australia, like the baby bonus, first home owners grant, family benefits, medicare safety net etc.


First of all in regard to the medicare safety net etc.  This is excellent for those with large families or for those who can afford to see a specialist - even plastic surgery.  As long as it's done on the specialists' premises it is reimbursed.  For single people and those on low incomes it is useless.  The net is $1000 for a worker and $700 for a pensioner.   How many specialist visits, providing you can afford to see one, would it take for this safety net to kick in.  

What has the baby bonus done for us.  It has encouraged drug addicts, irresponsible youth and those not in a position to raise a child decently to have children.  Child abuse in NSW has escalated four fold since the baby bonus was introduced.   As far as family benefits go - yes it does appear to be very generous and allows those on good incomes to pay no tax.  As far as the benefits go - this has resulted in a fatter nation with obesity in Australia escalating, but the purpose has been to increase consumerism and this has worked because our nation's debt is now $1 trillion, which is the worth of the economy.





The safety net is not designed to kick in early just so everyone has a free ride - it is designed to kick in if an individual or a family have some heavy medical costs.   This ensures that the cost is mitigated by the excellent targetted scheme directed at that specific incidence.   That's why it is called targetted welfare - the previous government brilliantly apportioned welfare to iron out the bumps for those most in need.

I completely reject the allegation that the baby bonus has done what you say.  And governments don't make people eat a lot.  When do people in your world take responsibility for themselves?

This nation has no debt.  None.   Zip.   Zilch.   Zero.    I have no idea where you got your figure from - it is fantasy.

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mantra
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Re: Keating wins argument with dead man
Reply #22 - Feb 7th, 2008 at 7:58pm
 
Quote:
Child abuse in NSW has escalated four fold since the baby bonus was introduced


Freediver - there is some information that I have accessed over the past few months - and can now only find bits and pieces.  There are articles inferring there is a correlation between the two - but I will try and find them in the next day or so and start a thread on this.

Quote:
it is designed to kick in if an individual or a family have some heavy medical costs


Yes and that includes cosmetic surgery.

Quote:
This nation has no debt.  None.   Zip.   Zilch.   Zero


Are you serious?
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« Last Edit: Feb 7th, 2008 at 8:13pm by mantra »  
 
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Re: Keating wins argument with dead man
Reply #23 - Feb 7th, 2008 at 8:38pm
 
We have no government debt mantra - Howard paid it off, but we do have very high personal/business debt to foreigners. This would tend to indicate that Australians are living beyond their means. We are spending our income while foreigners are investing in our future and reaping the rewards. However there is not a lot that can be done about it from a legislative perspective. Replacing income tax with a GST should reduce it to some extent.
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Re: Keating wins argument with dead man
Reply #24 - Feb 7th, 2008 at 9:02pm
 
mantra wrote on Feb 7th, 2008 at 7:58pm:
Quote:
Child abuse in NSW has escalated four fold since the baby bonus was introduced


Freediver - there is some information that I have accessed over the past few months - and can now only find bits and pieces.  There are articles inferring there is a correlation between the two - but I will try and find them in the next day or so and start a thread on this.

Quote:
it is designed to kick in if an individual or a family have some heavy medical costs


Yes and that includes cosmetic surgery.

Quote:
This nation has no debt.  None.   Zip.   Zilch.   Zero


Are you serious?


Deadly serious.  John Howard completely cleared a mountain tens of billions of dollars of government debt left by Cheating while still keeping the budget in surplus and increasing spending to benefit ordinary Australians with massive increases in the health and education budget allocations.

Cheating was the worst thing that ever happened to this country (I suspect Little Kevvy will grab his crown before very long though - he's not just dumb and incompetent like Cheating, he doesn't even have any ideas).





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Re: Keating wins argument with dead man
Reply #25 - Feb 7th, 2008 at 9:44pm
 
Sorry - you said the nation has no debt.  The nation is in debt to the tune of nearly a trillion dollars which is the size of our economy.  The government is free and clear of course at the sacrifice of services and privatisation.  Is there any point to a government being debt free, while its citizens are hocked to their eyeballs?
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Re: Keating wins argument with dead man
Reply #26 - Feb 7th, 2008 at 10:12pm
 
mantra wrote on Feb 7th, 2008 at 9:44pm:
Sorry - you said the nation has no debt.  The nation is in debt to the tune of nearly a trillion dollars which is the size of our economy.  The government is free and clear of course at the sacrifice of services and privatisation.  Is there any point to a government being debt free, while its citizens are hocked to their eyeballs?



No, the nation has no debt.  None at all.  Zip   Zilch.  Nada.  

That Coles Myer, Crazy Clarks, Ford Motor Company or the bloke down the road does is irrelevant.  No taxpayer owes any country any government (or national) debt.

The balance of trade is not a debt you (nor I) need be concerned with.  It is the individual's problem.

This nation owes no one anything.  John Howard made sure of that.

The Liebor States are a different matter - they owe mountains.  But that is your State Liebor Party which has done that to you, as Little Kevvy surely will.   No Liebor government can manage an economy.  They never have, never will. Their priority is their mates, the rich and corporations.
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