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Keating wins argument with dead man (Read 6943 times)
freediver
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Keating wins argument with dead man
Jan 31st, 2008 at 5:27pm
 
Keating blasted over McGuinness attack

http://news.smh.com.au/keating-blasted-over-mcguinness-attack/20080131-1pad.html

Former prime minister Paul Keating was "cowardly and dishonourable" to attack journalist Paddy McGuinness after his death, says historian and Quadrant editor Keith Windschuttle.

Mr McGuinness, a former editor of the Sydney-based monthly journal, is described as "a liar and a fraud" with the "morals of an alley cat" in an opinion piece by Mr Keating published in The Australian Financial Review (AFR).

Mr McGuiness died on Saturday after a long battle with cancer. His funeral is in Sydney on Friday.

Mr Keating wrote that an obituary published in the AFR, which Mr McGuiness also edited, had described the former Quadrant editor as a contrarian or agent provocateur.

"He was none of those things," Mr Keating said.

"He was a fraud. But let me calibrate that. He was not just a fraud, he was a liar and a fraud."

Mr Keating accused Mr McGuinness of having a "prejudiced, capricious and intellectually corrupt mind that was all over the shop depending on what suited his miserable purposes at the time".

Mr Windschuttle, an historian, author and ABC board member, offered a brief riposte to Mr Keating on behalf of his predecessor at the Quadrant.

"Keating should have made his accusations when Paddy was alive and able to answer him back," he told AAP.

"It is cowardly and dishonourable to make them now he is dead."

Mr Keating, who was prime minister from 1991 to 1996, defended his attack on Mr McGuinness by saying his "moral position" allowed him to do so.

"In a long public life I have made it a rule never to speak ill of the dead; to not criticise someone who can no longer respond to the criticism," he wrote.

"I am going to break that rule in the case of Paddy McGuinness.

"I do so for this reason: in the last two decades of his life, McGuinness heaped more vitriol and contumely on me than anyone in public life.

"Working on the notion that 'the dogs may bark but the caravan moves on', I rarely responded to his unreasonable and unceasing tirades.

"So, in that piggy bank of reasonableness, I have a massive store of credits that, in all fairness, I am in a moral position to draw on."

Mr Keating said Mr McGuinness, as editor of the AFR when Labor won government in 1983, had been "cut to the quick" when he (Mr Keating) had surpassed "his modest reform agenda" within the first two months of taking over treasury.

"He could never have imagined that, within a year of taking office, the guy in the navy blue suit from Sussex Street, one of the 'thugs' on the Right, would have completely deregulated the banking system, removing all deposit maturity and lending controls, totally abolishing exchange controls while moving the exchange rate from a price-based to a quantity-based system", Mr Keating wrote.

"And at the same time, reducing previous treasurer John Howard's profligate budget deficit by a substantial proportion of GDP.

"What, as editor of the AFR, could he say?

"He was obliged to applaud.

"And it rankled with him for the balance of his professional life."
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deepthought
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Re: Keating wins argument with dead man
Reply #1 - Jan 31st, 2008 at 7:17pm
 
Keating was a dim-witted offensive fool when he was ruining the country and nothing has changed to make him in any way smarter or better mannered.
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Re: Keating wins argument with dead man
Reply #2 - Feb 4th, 2008 at 8:06am
 
Pretty consistent form for someone who once described Australia as "the arse end of the earth".

Even Hayden has condemned his attack on McGuinness. Stan Zemanek often attacked Keating, and several years ago Keating called up, calling himself "Paul", and launched into attack mode. Zemanek eventually worked out it was Keating, and quite an interesting "debate" followed. It could have been worse: We could have had Latham.
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Re: Keating wins argument with dead man
Reply #3 - Feb 4th, 2008 at 2:30pm
 
deepthought wrote on Jan 31st, 2008 at 7:17pm:
Keating was a dim-witted offensive fool when he was ruining the country and nothing has changed to make him in any way smarter or better mannered.


Who will be remembered: Howard or Keating?

  Huh Cool Grin
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deepthought
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Re: Keating wins argument with dead man
Reply #4 - Feb 4th, 2008 at 10:53pm
 
BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Feb 4th, 2008 at 2:30pm:
deepthought wrote on Jan 31st, 2008 at 7:17pm:
Keating was a dim-witted offensive fool when he was ruining the country and nothing has changed to make him in any way smarter or better mannered.


Who will be remembered: Howard or Keating?

 Huh Cool Grin


Both.  Johnny for the best modern PM Australia has enjoyed and Cheating for failing to lodge his tax returns, indulging in impressive cheating of the tax office with a piggery, calling the press "phuqing animals."  and saying Laurie Oakes is "a cane toad".

I know who I prefer, being normal as I am, but each to his own style.   To some Cheating represents the pinnacle of arseholery - to me he is an oaf.
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Re: Keating wins argument with dead man
Reply #5 - Feb 5th, 2008 at 12:30pm
 
Simply put - Keating is just becoming a grumpy old man.  It's a very common phenomena and eventually happens to most ageing men.  Everyone talked about Keating's comments, but Carr was just as cutting, although he chose his words more carefully.

Quote:
Bob Carr's effort in The Australian on Wednesday was more measured - the rapier rather than the cruise missile - but none the less lethal. His thesis was that McGuinness had led a "Praetorian Guard" of right-wing media commentators who, over 10 years, had locked John Howard into the policies that eventually destroyed him: support for George Bush and the Iraq war, the denial of the reality of climate change and, above all, Work Choices.

"In the end," Carr wrote with a barely concealed chortle, "when the electorate wanted Howard to ratify Kyoto and wind back the commitment in Iraq, the symbiotic link with the Praetorians made it impossible for the emperor to shift. And they fed and nurtured and consolidated his attachment to the orthodoxies that did him in."

That sounds about right. It has an exquisite poetic justice to it. But the intriguing thing about that lot - McGuinness, Keith Windschuttle, David Flint, Piers Akerman and so on - is the fear and loathing that poured from them like molten lava during the Howard ascendancy.

I have always assumed it had something to do with their tortured march from the pseudo-Marxist excesses of their youth to the neo-conservative follies of their descent into old age.

In a lifetime of trumpeting every political opinion under the sun, the only possible self-justification was a continuum of incandescent rage against those who dared to differ.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/mike-carlton/brutal-reality-on-friend-or-foe-keating-gets-it-right/2008/02/01/1201801034795.html
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deepthought
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Re: Keating wins argument with dead man
Reply #6 - Feb 5th, 2008 at 8:59pm
 
mantra wrote on Feb 5th, 2008 at 12:30pm:
Simply put - Keating is just becoming a grumpy old man.  It's a very common phenomena and eventually happens to most ageing men.  Everyone talked about Keating's comments, but Carr was just as cutting, although he chose his words more carefully.

Quote:
Bob Carr's effort in The Australian on Wednesday was more measured - the rapier rather than the cruise missile - but none the less lethal. His thesis was that McGuinness had led a "Praetorian Guard" of right-wing media commentators who, over 10 years, had locked John Howard into the policies that eventually destroyed him: support for George Bush and the Iraq war, the denial of the reality of climate change and, above all, Work Choices.

"In the end," Carr wrote with a barely concealed chortle, "when the electorate wanted Howard to ratify Kyoto and wind back the commitment in Iraq, the symbiotic link with the Praetorians made it impossible for the emperor to shift. And they fed and nurtured and consolidated his attachment to the orthodoxies that did him in."

That sounds about right. It has an exquisite poetic justice to it. But the intriguing thing about that lot - McGuinness, Keith Windschuttle, David Flint, Piers Akerman and so on - is the fear and loathing that poured from them like molten lava during the Howard ascendancy.

I have always assumed it had something to do with their tortured march from the pseudo-Marxist excesses of their youth to the neo-conservative follies of their descent into old age.

In a lifetime of trumpeting every political opinion under the sun, the only possible self-justification was a continuum of incandescent rage against those who dared to differ.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/mike-carlton/brutal-reality-on-friend-or-foe-keating-gets-it-right/2008/02/01/1201801034795.html


While it may be a common phenomenon Cheating has always been 'grumpy'.   Even young Cheating was grumpy.  

To Richard Carlton

"You (Richard Carleton) had an important place in Australian society on the ABC and you gave it up to be a pop star...with a big cheque...and now you're on to this sort of stuff. That shows what a 24 carat pissant you are, Richard, that's for sure"

To Jim McClelland

"That you Jim? Paul Keating here. Just because you swallowed a phuqing dictionary when you were about 15 doesn't give you the right to pour a bucket of testicles over the rest of us."

He bellowed at a uni student

"Go and get a job!"

And he said about Mike Codd

"Codd will be lucky to get a job cleaning shithouses if I ever become Prime Minister."

Cheating was a nasty and bitter clod all his life.  He wasn't smart enough to be Prime Minister or even Treasurer but he hung out at the right ALP hovels and he rooted the right ALP backsides.  Then he rooted Australia good and proper.
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Re: Keating wins argument with dead man
Reply #7 - Feb 5th, 2008 at 9:34pm
 
Quote:
To Richard Carlton

"You (Richard Carleton) had an important place in Australian society on the ABC and you gave it up to be a pop star...with a big cheque...and now you're on to this sort of stuff. That shows what a 24 carat pissant you are, Richard, that's for sure"

To Jim McClelland

"That you Jim? Paul Keating here. Just because you swallowed a phuqing dictionary when you were about 15 doesn't give you the right to pour a bucket of testicles over the rest of us."

He bellowed at a uni student

"Go and get a job!"

And he said about Mike Codd

"Codd will be lucky to get a job cleaning shithouses if I ever become Prime Minister."


Classic!! Smiley
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deepthought
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Re: Keating wins argument with dead man
Reply #8 - Feb 5th, 2008 at 9:59pm
 
Aussie wrote on Feb 5th, 2008 at 9:34pm:
Classic!! Smiley






deepthought wrote on Feb 4th, 2008 at 10:53pm:
BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Feb 4th, 2008 at 2:30pm:
Who will be remembered: Howard or Keating?

 Huh Cool Grin


Both.  Johnny for the best modern PM Australia has enjoyed and Cheating for failing to lodge his tax returns, indulging in impressive cheating of the tax office with a piggery, calling the press "phuqing animals."  and saying Laurie Oakes is "a cane toad".

I know who I prefer, being normal as I am, but each to his own style.   To some Cheating represents the pinnacle of arseholery - to me he is an oaf.


Yes I picked you for the former Aussie.  Cheating was the kind of Australian who made the honest, hard working, sophisticated Australian embarrassed and the rednecks beam with pride at one of their own making it to the trough.
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Re: Keating wins argument with dead man
Reply #9 - Feb 6th, 2008 at 10:05am
 
Quote:
Cheating was the kind of Australian who made the honest, hard working, sophisticated Australian embarrassed and the rednecks beam with pride at one of their own making it to the trough.


That's funny.  Keating obviously wasn't cut out to be a long term PM - but he had a good shot at it and made some good financial reforms at the time.  I don't mind Keating, although I'm not a big fan (because of the piggery), but at least he gives people something to talk about.  He is angry and he should have gotten over it by now, but it's part of his personality and he will probably be that cynical until the day he dies.

On the other hand Howard will never be a colourful person and will fade away into oblivion shortly, but Keating will get attention for the rest of his life, negative or positive.  He makes the headlines and people listen to him.
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Re: Keating wins argument with dead man
Reply #10 - Feb 6th, 2008 at 4:29pm
 
mantra wrote on Feb 6th, 2008 at 10:05am:
Quote:
Cheating was the kind of Australian who made the honest, hard working, sophisticated Australian embarrassed and the rednecks beam with pride at one of their own making it to the trough.


That's funny.  Keating obviously wasn't cut out to be a long term PM - but he had a good shot at it and made some good financial reforms at the time.  I don't mind Keating, although I'm not a big fan (because of the piggery), but at least he gives people something to talk about.  He is angry and he should have gotten over it by now, but it's part of his personality and he will probably be that cynical until the day he dies.

On the other hand Howard will never be a colourful person and will fade away into oblivion shortly, but Keating will get attention for the rest of his life, negative or positive.  He makes the headlines and people listen to him.


I think I would rather be remembered for making a difference, not for being an offensive dimwit.  Cheating makes the headlines and people laugh at him.

John Howard's Australia was a remarkable place.  More people employed than at any time since the 60s, less industrial action than at any time since before the First World War, inflation held virtually static for a decade, wages growth every single year for the entire term of the government, tax cuts practically every budget since the beginning of the coalition government, a savings plan for the first time in history, a revolutionary tax act with consumer taxes for the first time in history, a leading edge industrial regime which saw huge jobs growth and a reversal of the casual army created by Cheating, health budgets growing by a figure nearly twice that of inflation, more money spent per child on education than most countries in the world, the introduction of the Medicare 'safety net', the introduction of targetted welfare to even out the inequities in the system, the complete repayment of mountainous Liebor debt they inherited, budgets in surplus every year for a decade, the doubling and redoubling of household wealth    . . . . .

It was an awesome period which will never be repeated in the near future.
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Re: Keating wins argument with dead man
Reply #11 - Feb 6th, 2008 at 4:54pm
 
He must have been a very communicator, as he and his Government were thrown out.  Or the fact might be that Australia and his own electorate had had a gut full of the 'lying todent.'
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Re: Keating wins argument with dead man
Reply #12 - Feb 6th, 2008 at 7:20pm
 
Aussie wrote on Feb 6th, 2008 at 4:54pm:
He must have been a very communicator, as he and his Government were thrown out.  Or the fact might be that Australia and his own electorate had had a gut full of the 'lying todent.'


He was an excellent communicator.  To those with two eyes and who didn't have hearing issues of course.  Sadly there do appear to be a lot of one eyed people with the inability to discern fact from fiction.

Luckily the truth reveals itself in remarkable ways, if not always pleasant circumstances  - as those Mitsubishi workers and distressed mortgagors can attest.

Incidentally as Australia's second longest serving PM he has nothing to be ashamed of in losing his throne.
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Re: Keating wins argument with dead man
Reply #13 - Feb 6th, 2008 at 8:48pm
 
So, the majority of Australians and the majority of those who live in hayseed's own electorate are one eyed, stupid people.

No need to respond, as all of us know that you will just say, "Yes."

Do carry on DT.
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Re: Keating wins argument with dead man
Reply #14 - Feb 6th, 2008 at 9:39pm
 
Aussie wrote on Feb 6th, 2008 at 8:48pm:
So, the majority of Australians and the majority of those who live in hayseed's own electorate are one eyed, stupid people.

No need to respond, as all of us know that you will just say, "Yes."

Do carry on DT.



I don't recall mentioning the word 'stupid'.  Very smart people can be duped old feller.  Little Kevvy waves his arms about with impressive vigor and spouts words that sound effective.  But I have seen his like before and am not easily fooled.  Additionally I know a great deal about business and am aware that very little he burbled was viable or even possible.  I am also dreadfully analytical and very little he pontificated was feasible or even achievable.

For example his broadband cable.  No other first world country's government in the world that I am aware of has funded a broadband network.  Why?  Well even if you don't know the answer the simple fact of them avoiding such an idea seems to indicate that it is problematic.  Yet the media fell for it, they trumpeted it like a lump of glorious twaddle and those without any technical knowledge gushed, cooed and stained their trousers.

But if you know anything at all about technology you will know that only a fool would even consider dreaming about it.  Something less than a fool is required to boast about it.  Something a fool wipes off his shoe would suggest doing it.  Guess where Little Kevvy was placed?
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