Australian Politics Forum - Nelson the softie

freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 50549 At my desk.	Re: Nelson the softie Reply #15 - Dec 6^th, 2007 at 1:00pm What makes you think it would be profitable for Telstra to put in cables alongside the government ones? Perhaps you should give a bit of an explanation, rather than assuming everyone shares your particular misunderstandings about economics.
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deepthought

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Re: Nelson the softie
Reply #16 - Dec 6^th, 2007 at 4:55pm

freediver wrote on Dec 6^th, 2007 at 1:00pm:

What makes you think it would be profitable for Telstra to put in cables alongside the government ones?

Perhaps you should give a bit of an explanation, rather than assuming everyone shares your particular misunderstandings about economics.

I already have explained that. No need to say things several times. Though I am beginning to think you don't read any posts but your own.

Would you like me to copy my post for you?

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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 50549 At my desk.	Re: Nelson the softie Reply #17 - Dec 6^th, 2007 at 4:58pm No, I want you to explain it. I wouldn't ask if your first attempt conveyed any kind of understanding.
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deepthought

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Re: Nelson the softie
Reply #18 - Dec 6^th, 2007 at 6:10pm

No worries.

deepthought wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2007 at 10:47pm:

Kevvy's stated policies will cause a fair amount of destruction to the economy and the current fiscal position. I'll give you an example.

One of his stated aims is a fibre optic broadband network which will reach something like 99% of Australian households. If this was a profitable goal a telecom would do it - but they have resisted due to the uneconomic and unreasonable insistence to get a cable to the Old Jigabboo Station in Whoopwhoop.

All the profit, obviously, is in the city.

So if Kevvy builds the cable network the resposibility to service the outback is now the taxpayers and not the telcos. What's more Kevvy will have plundered the future fund for the money to build it.

Now if I was Telstra I would build a second fibre optic network. One which only serviced the cities. This will make them vast amounts of money and they will not use Kevvy's cable at all. Why rent his when you can own your own?

So the money Kevvy ploughs into the cable will be lost and will return nothing at all of substance.

Furthermore the future fund - set up to fund the unfunded superannuation of public servants - is now depleted. Who will pay the super? You and me, the taxpayers.

Kevvy will be roundly screwed by corporations if he tries to compete with them - they are far smarter than a dim-witted public servant like him. Trouble is when he gets screwed we pick up the tab. We will need to fund the super all over again, and it is highly likely that by the time he lays the useless thing the technology will have surpassed a fibre optic cable running all the way to that town sprint said is the farthest away from an ocean way out west.

Anyone noticed the uptake of wireless? Apparently not Kevvy. The coalition very wisely got out of the technological race and sold off Telstra - Kevvy wants to wind the clock back and pour billions into competing with cutting edge technology at our expense.

The coalition will have one hell of a job putting Kevvy's disasters behind us.

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deepthought

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Re: Nelson the softie
Reply #19 - Dec 7^th, 2007 at 7:15pm

Well there you go freediver, a day after I explain it Telstra explains it in exactly the same way - if you failed to understand me this will make you equally baffled. But it makes perfect sense to two eyed people.

Quote:

Australia's Telstra rejects government broadband plan

SYDNEY (AFP) — The head of Australia's largest telco has criticised the government's plan to build a national broadband system in partnership with the private sector as a "kumbaya, holding hands" idea.

Telstra head Sol Trujillo praised newly elected Labor Party Prime Minister Kevin Rudd, who had campaigned strongly on upgrading Australia's broadband Internet services, in remarks published Friday.

"He gets it -- he understands it," the US-born executive said.

But Trujillo bluntly rejected Rudd's proposal for the government to invest up to 4.7 billion dollars (4.1 billion US) in a high-speed broadband network in partnership with the private sector.

He called it a "kumbaya, holding hands" theory -- a reference to the feel-good spiritual or folk song of that name.

"We are only going to participate in the things that we own and control," Trujillo told The Australian newspaper.

Labor has not spelled out the exact ownership structure for the new network but has said it wants a shared equity investment, rather than just a handover of funding to the telco or consortium providing the service.

Trujillo said such an approach would be confusing.

"We don't want to muddy it up with what you can do and what you can't do and when," he said. "It makes managing your business too hard."

At the same time, Trujillo warned that Australia will suffer unless it makes significant investments in broadband soon.

"I think there will be huge economic impacts for Australia because Australia will fall behind the rest of the world," he said.

Trujillo's comments could delay the government's plan because while its rivals such as Singapore-owned Optus are expected to bid for the tender, they would have to make use of Telstra facilities and this could be difficult.

Questions have also arisen over how to roll out the technology across such a vast country with a sparsely populated centre.

Dig deep taxpayers - this nutty scheme will have the country in debt in no time

Telstra have Little Kevvy, and now the poor taxpayer, firmly by the balls. Embarrassed

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IQSRLOW Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 1618	Re: Nelson the softie Reply #20 - Dec 7^th, 2007 at 7:22pm DT is right Freediver On a technology vs timescale x labour cost- This is a foolhardy move by any govt. By the time they actually roll out any kind of infrastructure, it will be an obsolete white elephant- wireless is where technology heading...in all facets of comms
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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 50549 At my desk.	Re: Nelson the softie Reply #21 - Dec 7^th, 2007 at 7:26pm Private companies are also interested in doing it because it is profitable.
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IQSRLOW Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 1618	Re: Nelson the softie Reply #22 - Dec 7^th, 2007 at 7:31pm If it were truly profitable they would have already done it. The simple fact is the tech is changing so rapidly that no one wants to get lumbered with a static infrastucture
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deepthought Gold Member Offline In Defence Of Liberty Posts: 2869	Re: Nelson the softie Reply #23 - Dec 7^th, 2007 at 7:31pm freediver wrote on Dec 7^th, 2007 at 7:26pm: Private companies are also interested in doing it because it is profitable. Yes, I said that already. I said "All the profit, obviously, is in the city." But you said you didn't understand me.
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freediver

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Re: Nelson the softie
Reply #24 - Dec 7^th, 2007 at 7:41pm

If it were truly profitable they would have already done it.

This is not the sort of thing a private comany can just go out and do - digging trenches through all the suburbs etc. There have been a lot of negotiations going on between the government and the telcos, for example about what sort of monopoy power such a company would have. When I say the government should own/control it, that doesn't mean they should do the nitty gritty stuff ala telecom 20 years ago. They should contract out all the work on both the installation and billing side. They should just maintain control so we have neither monopoly prices nor redundant infrastructure.

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IQSRLOW Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 1618	Re: Nelson the softie Reply #25 - Dec 7^th, 2007 at 7:47pm This is not the sort of thing a private comany can just go out and do - nor redundant infrastructure. My point exactly- This is not the sort of thing any company wants to go out and do, hence the advent of wireless comms on a grande scale. If you ignore this, you will end up with redundant infratructure
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deepthought

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Re: Nelson the softie
Reply #26 - Dec 8^th, 2007 at 6:02am

Now Little Kevvy's complete lack of business acumen has seen him drawn into commercial warfare between corporations and that is absolutely off limits with taxpayer funds. His bumbling simple-minded understanding of the world (no doubt gleaned from economists) has led him by the nose straight into inappropriate territory. A government in competition with corporate Australia with the risk totally underwritten by the people of Australia.

Optus want to take on Telstra - with our future fund!!!!!!

Quote:

Optus woos Rudd

Optus says it is ready to build a fibre-to-the-node broadband network in Australia with the government, in response to Telstra's vow never to partner with the government to build one.

CEO Paul O'Sullivan was responding to his counterpart, Telstra boss Sol Truijllo who said Telstra would not build such a network if it meant less than double digit returns - or if it had to work with the government to do so.

Mr O'Sullivan said other telcos would be able to access the network under regulatory requirements.

'Mr Trujillo wants to hold Australia to ransom,' he said. 'He wants us to believe that the only way to get a FTTN network is on Telstra's terms - a Telstra monopoly charging very high prices.'

Optus says it will lead the G9 consortium to be a participant in the new Rudd Government's planned bidding process to award the building contract of the network.

Australia goes down the toilet

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freediver

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Re: Nelson the softie
Reply #27 - Dec 8^th, 2007 at 10:25am

This is not the sort of thing any company wants to go out and do

Not true. They want to do it because it is cheaper and would give them a monopoly for a long time. The Howard government was actually holding them back. At the moment, and for the forseeable future, cable is a better option. I actually just looked into cable vs wireless for my connection. The wireless option was crap by comparison.

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IQSRLOW

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Re: Nelson the softie
Reply #28 - Dec 8^th, 2007 at 11:20am

They only want to do it if the govt funds it.

I actually just looked into cable vs wireless for my connection. The wireless option was crap by comparison.

Your comparison is flawed and you still don't get it. Wireless connection is now on par with what ADSL offered only a few years ago...it will outpace wired infrastructure in the coming years

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deepthought

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Re: Nelson the softie
Reply #29 - Dec 8^th, 2007 at 11:57am

freediver wrote on Dec 8^th, 2007 at 10:25am:

This is not the sort of thing any company wants to go out and do

Not true. They want to do it because it is cheaper and would give them a monopoly for a long time. The Howard government was actually holding them back. At the moment, and for the forseeable future, cable is a better option. I actually just looked into cable vs wireless for my connection. The wireless option was crap by comparison.

The wireless option was crap by comparison with what? At the moment remote users have nothing at all but dial up. Are you comparing the speed of wireless with dial up?

I'm sure you don't understand. See air, as a carrier, is free. No cable need be laid to get the signal from here to Bullamnutsoff with a wireless carrier wave. Digital broadcasts on high frequency waves are pure. Fibre optic over thousands of kilometres needs amplifiers, repeater stations and all sorts of infrastructure.

By the time Kevvy lays his cable it will be worth about as much as a laid cable. He will bankrupt the country. The proposed $4b is nowhere near enough for his madness - he will need many billions more.

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