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Is atheism a religious belief? (Read 129275 times)
renegadeviking
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Re: Is atheism a religious belief?
Reply #750 - Nov 15th, 2010 at 12:33pm
 
muso wrote on Nov 7th, 2010 at 5:45am:
Exactly renegadeviking. It was a later addition. The founding fathers were predominately Deist. That's why you don't find the word 'Jesus' on any of the documents.  

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The Founding Fathers were not religious men, and they fought hard to erect, in Thomas Jefferson's words, "a wall of separation between church and state." John Adams opined that if they were not restrained by legal measures, Puritans-the fundamentalists of their day-would "whip and crop, and pillory and roast." The historical epoch had afforded these men ample opportunity to observe the corruption to which established priesthoods were liable, as well as "the impious presumption of legislators and rulers," as Jefferson wrote, "civil as well as ecclesiastical, who, being themselves but fallible and uninspired men, have assumed dominion over the faith of others, setting up their own opinions and modes of thinking as the only true and infallible, and as such endeavoring to impose them on others, hath established and maintained false religions over the greatest part of the world and through all time."


http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Religion/Godless_Constitution.html

Can you imagine what would have happened if it had been otherwise? The Christian "Caliphate" of the USA?  

This separation of church and state had enormous influence around the world. In the Muslim world, that other great Deist  Kemal Atatürk founded a secular Turkey based on separation of religion and state.

Modern secularism has its roots in Deism. Were it not for these heretics of their time, the world would be a different place today.

By the way, be careful what you quote about Deism and Deists. Like atheists, some of them tend to make all kinds of generalised statements that are simply not true. A certain atheist has been known to say on this board "Atheists don't believe in superstition". That is a generalisation that is simply incorrect.

Like Atheists, Deists are free thinkers, unconstrained by dogma or doctrine. Atheists and Deists are a bit like cats - you can't herd them.


Most the politicians have some sort of religious background, especially the republicans.  Most of them are based off Christan. Simple fact.

Some founding fathers were and some founding fathers weren't relgious.

http://www.jameswatkins.com/foundingfathers.htm
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Soren
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Re: Is atheism a religious belief?
Reply #751 - Nov 15th, 2010 at 12:49pm
 
muso wrote on Nov 15th, 2010 at 11:25am:
I would normally regard myself as an igtheist or ignostic.

You should nominate for the IgNoble Awards, too.

http://improbable.com/airchives/paperair/volume1/v1i3/air-1-3-apples.html
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muso
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Re: Is atheism a religious belief?
Reply #752 - Nov 15th, 2010 at 1:49pm
 
renegadeviking wrote on Nov 15th, 2010 at 12:33pm:
Most the politicians have some sort of religious background, especially the republicans.  Most of them are based off Christan. Simple fact.

Some founding fathers were and some founding fathers weren't relgious.

http://www.jameswatkins.com/foundingfathers.htm


Early deism derived a lot of its conventions from Christianity, however it was very distinct from Christianity and subject to alienation.

Deism was born as a result of a one night stand between Christianity and reason. When she realized what was growing inside her, she tried to abort it, but it survived as the personification of the pain(e)ful Truth. But that ugly duckling's inner swan is becoming more evident to people, as is the true nature of the hideous, bloated hag which gave it birth and was only an unwilling surrogate.

Some call it the Immaculate Reception.
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Amadd
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Re: Is atheism a religious belief?
Reply #753 - Dec 3rd, 2010 at 6:49pm
 
To be religious, you are required to be irrational.



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muso
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Re: Is atheism a religious belief?
Reply #754 - Dec 3rd, 2010 at 7:52pm
 
Amadd wrote on Dec 3rd, 2010 at 6:49pm:
To be religious, you are required to be irrational.



To be creative, you are required to be irrational.
To be human, you are required to be irrational.
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Amadd
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Re: Is atheism a religious belief?
Reply #755 - Dec 3rd, 2010 at 8:43pm
 
Quote:
To be creative, you are required to be irrational.
To be human, you are required to be irrational.


Sounds good   Undecided.... but I think that you're displaying your "creative humaness" there.


Rationalism is a free choice...use it at your own discression.

Feel free to employ it. It's a Godsend y'know?  Grini
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Amadd
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Re: Is atheism a religious belief?
Reply #756 - Dec 4th, 2010 at 11:40pm
 
It was well deserving of a "please explain" Muso.
I'm still struggling to understand your meaning there.

There's nothing "required" about irrationality. It may be a human trait, but it's not "required".
And you don't need to be irrational to be creative. Thinking outside of the square doesn't come under the banner of being "irrational" IMO.

On the other hand, consciously subscribing yourself to irrationality is a stupid and weak exploit. By doing so, you are exploiting and damning future generations to a world of lies.
We all should realise by now that the "Jesus myth" is a lie. Face it and move on. If not for ourselves, then for the sake of future generations.

D.M.Murdock is the opitamy of perfect womanhood.. So beautiful, so intelligent, so caring, that it's hard to believe that she isn't something fictional.
It would be irrational to fall in love with her, but I do so just the same.







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muso
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Re: Is atheism a religious belief?
Reply #757 - Dec 5th, 2010 at 6:04am
 
Amadd wrote on Dec 4th, 2010 at 11:40pm:
We all should realise by now that the "Jesus myth" is a lie. Face it and move on. If not for ourselves, then for the sake of future generations.

D.M.Murdock is the opitamy of perfect womanhood.. So beautiful, so intelligent, so caring, that it's hard to believe that she isn't something fictional.
It would be irrational to fall in love with her, but I do so just the same.



The Jesus myth is not part of my mythology and it doesn't even need to be a part of a discussion on atheism. 

Here is an interesting article about how the brain often works on autopilot. We all do this the vast majority of the time(at least 99% of the time). If we thought rationally about every single thing we did and said, we'd all quickly grind to a halt.

It's illustrated by the fact that we are very clumsy while learning a task for the first time. As we get older and more experienced, we can relate new tasks to old task, and the brain deals with these new tasks by an analogy that doesn't always fit.

http://news.softpedia.com/news/What-Happens-When-the-Brain-Goes-On-Autopilot-144...
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mozzaok
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Re: Is atheism a religious belief?
Reply #758 - Dec 5th, 2010 at 6:23am
 
so if we were also learning to ride a unicycle, whilst studying advanced calculus, we would do both better??
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OOPS!!! My Karma, ran over your Dogma!
 
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muso
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Re: Is atheism a religious belief?
Reply #759 - Dec 5th, 2010 at 7:21am
 
mozzaok wrote on Dec 5th, 2010 at 6:23am:
so if we were also learning to ride a unicycle, whilst studying advanced calculus, we would do both better??


I'm not sure I follow that  Grin 

Another aspect to our irrationality is the fact that we all have our mythologies. Our thinking patterns are necessarily 'idiomatic' as a result of the limitations of our brain structure.

Our individual mind-based 'world maps' that get us through life are never a totally accurate portrayal of the real world. They are always an approximation.  To that extent, we thrive on mythology on a day to day basis. We can't explain every single aspect of our lives in anything approaching totally 'rational' terms because of the limitations in  our brain architecture.
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NorthOfNorth
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Re: Is atheism a religious belief?
Reply #760 - Dec 5th, 2010 at 10:28am
 
muso wrote on Dec 5th, 2010 at 7:21am:
Our individual mind-based 'world maps' that get us through life are never a totally accurate portrayal of the real world. They are always an approximation.  

Like the brain using memory (as opposed to immediate experience) to render familiar landscapes into consciousness, such that we mostly don't 'see' our own neighborhood as it actually is, but from a composite of memories.
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Conviction is the art of being certain
 
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