Australian Politics Forum - Is atheism a religious belief?

Kytro

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Re: Is atheism a religious belief?
Reply #135 - Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 10:31am

freediver wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 10:00am:

It was interesting because you made them out to be more compassionate blah blah blah, but when they donate money it's to further their ideology, not do charitable work like other organisations do. There are even 'unaligned' charities that they could donate to instead.

Religious beliefs or lack of them is probably not the defining factor defining charitable donation. Plenty of religious people donate to religious organisations that are not charity based.

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muso

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Re: Is atheism a religious belief?
Reply #136 - Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 11:02am

Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF)

- That's my favourite charity, because they don't waste money as much as the bigger organisations like the Salvation Army and World Vision, who might do a good job, but waste a lot of funds.

I've seen some of the big parties thrown by charities in Africa. I've also witnessed how MSF operates. That's why it's my charity of choice.

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tallowood

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Re: Is atheism a religious belief?
Reply #137 - Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 11:38am

Kytro wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 8:44am:

tallowood wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 7:53am:

But communist parties are organisations consisting of atheists and when they are in power they have appalling records of humanitarian abuse.

Your point being? Are you implying it is because they are atheist?

Let's have a look at communism:

From Wiki:
Communism is a socioeconomic structure that promotes the establishment of an egalitarian, classless society based on common ownership of the means of production and property in general.[1][2][3] According to Marxism, communism is the final stage in human society and is both classless and stateless. Leninists have attempted to produce communist societies by setting up political parties, which in some cases have become governments. These attempts have never produced the "pure" communist societies envisoned by Marx, and have led to totalitarian states.

So basically communists in practice are not really communists at all. never the less there is no evidence to support that atheism causes corruption, there are in fact plenty of religious state both present and past that have been corrupted.

Same can be said about any religion including atheism. So if religious states can be corrupted due to religion so could and can atheist states. Otherwise everything is just a fantasy and nothing is real in practice. Q.E.D.

As for my point, I have expanded on it in couple of other threads. Wink

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tallowood

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Re: Is atheism a religious belief?
Reply #138 - Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 11:44am

muso wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 8:42am:

tallowood wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 6:58am:

Atheists already have organisation. It's called communist party. In fact there are few of them because they don't see eye to eye on all doctrines just like all other religions. They do have prophets often called chairmen and we know from history hoe smart, independent and humane they are NOT.

Tallow,

Do you really believe that all atheists are communists, or that all atheists belong to some kind of global conspiracy?
...

I don't believe, I know that communists are atheists.
I also already have mentioned that atheism follows the same pass of schisms as other religions do.

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muso

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Re: Is atheism a religious belief?
Reply #139 - Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 2:42pm

tallowood wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 11:44am:

muso wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 8:42am:

tallowood wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 6:58am:

Atheists already have organisation. It's called communist party. In fact there are few of them because they don't see eye to eye on all doctrines just like all other religions. They do have prophets often called chairmen and we know from history hoe smart, independent and humane they are NOT.

Tallow,

Do you really believe that all atheists are communists, or that all atheists belong to some kind of global conspiracy?
...

I don't believe, I know that communists are atheists.
I also already have mentioned that atheism follows the same pass of schisms as other religions do.

That's the old "trees are green therefore grass is a tree" argument.
Oh dear.

Haven't you ever heard of Camilo Torres? Maybe he was before your time. There were a lot of catholic commies in South America. There still are. South America has a long history of communism and RC going hand in hand.

There are a lot in Italy too - and many commies in Russia were orthodox, including Boris Yeltsin, and he was head of the politburo in 1976, so you can't say he wasn't a commie. The fact that he drank so much is testament to his religiosity Tongue

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« Last Edit: Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 2:57pm by muso »

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Kytro

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Re: Is atheism a religious belief?
Reply #140 - Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 2:47pm

tallowood wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 11:38am:

Same can be said about any religion including atheism. So if religious states can be corrupted due to religion so could and can atheist states. Otherwise everything is just a fantasy and nothing is real in practice. Q.E.D.

As for my point, I have expanded on it in couple of other threads. Wink

Any concentration of power can be corrupted. This has nothing to do with religion or atheism.

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tallowood

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Re: Is atheism a religious belief?
Reply #141 - Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 4:12pm

muso wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 2:42pm:

tallowood wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 11:44am:

muso wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 8:42am:

tallowood wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 6:58am:

Atheists already have organisation. It's called communist party. In fact there are few of them because they don't see eye to eye on all doctrines just like all other religions. They do have prophets often called chairmen and we know from history hoe smart, independent and humane they are NOT.

Tallow,

Do you really believe that all atheists are communists, or that all atheists belong to some kind of global conspiracy?
...

I don't believe, I know that communists are atheists.
I also already have mentioned that atheism follows the same pass of schisms as other religions do.

That's the old "trees are green therefore grass is a tree" argument.
Oh dear.

Haven't you ever heard of Camilo Torres? Maybe he was before your time. There were a lot of catholic commies in South America. There still are. South America has a long history of communism and RC going hand in hand.

There are a lot in Italy too - and many commies in Russia were orthodox, including Boris Yeltsin, and he was head of the politburo in 1976, so you can't say he wasn't a commie. The fact that he drank so much is testament to his religiosity Tongue

So if an atheist is green he or she is a tree?

"Iron Felix" the founder of kgb was Catholic too and a Jesuit at that before he become communist and atheist. With Yeltsin it was other way around though, he become Christian after he split from communists.
Them and examples that you have provided reinforce my assertion that atheists are naturally religious people and they change denominations as easy and often as other religious people do. I'm sure that you know about Anglican becoming Catholic and vice verse.

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tallowood

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Re: Is atheism a religious belief?
Reply #142 - Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 4:14pm

Kytro wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 2:47pm:

tallowood wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 11:38am:

Same can be said about any religion including atheism. So if religious states can be corrupted due to religion so could and can atheist states. Otherwise everything is just a fantasy and nothing is real in practice. Q.E.D.

As for my point, I have expanded on it in couple of other threads. Wink

Any concentration of power can be corrupted. This has nothing to do with religion or atheism.

Agree with correction this has nothing to do with religion including atheism.

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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 50565 At my desk.	Re: Is atheism a religious belief? Reply #143 - Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 5:02pm Off-Topic replies have been moved to this Topic.
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mozzaok

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Re: Is atheism a religious belief?
Reply #144 - Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 7:10pm

freediver wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 10:00am:

It was interesting because you made them out to be more compassionate blah blah blah, but when they donate money it's to further their ideology, not do charitable work like other organisations do. There are even 'unaligned' charities that they could donate to instead.

Well of course I don't think being religious, and compassionate, is mutually exclusive either FD.

I do think people who are decent and compassionate because of purely humane reasons, rather than because of the carrot of eternal bliss, or the stick of eternal torture, that so many religious folk adhere to, are decent , charitable, and empathic humans, which we could use more of.

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Amadd

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Re: Is atheism a religious belief?
Reply #145 - Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 7:49pm

Unfortunately we are all trapped in the prism of our own consciousness; there are some things that are beyond the understanding of others.
Religious people choose to believe that they have a higher level of understanding and athiests choose to believe that they have a higher level of understanding (on the particular subject of course).

IMO, we are all evolving towards athiesm and realistic thinking, and it cannot be stopped.

Thanks God!

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Kytro Gold Member Offline Blasphemy: a victimless crime Posts: 3409 Adelaide Gender:	Re: Is atheism a religious belief? Reply #146 - Oct 24^th, 2008 at 7:23am tallowood wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 4:14pm: Agree with correction this has nothing to do with religion including atheism. I am still not convinced it is a religion, not in it's own right in any case. There are various religions and spiritual beliefs that incorporate atheism.
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muso

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Re: Is atheism a religious belief?
Reply #147 - Oct 24^th, 2008 at 7:27am

[quote author=tallowood link=1194410206/135#141]

So if an atheist is green he or she is a tree?

"Iron Felix" the founder of kgb was Catholic too and a Jesuit at that before he become communist and atheist. With Yeltsin it was other way around though, he become Christian after he split from communists.
Them and examples that you have provided reinforce my assertion that atheists are naturally religious people and they change denominations as easy and often as other religious people do. I'm sure that you know about Anglican becoming Catholic and vice verse.

[/quote]

Boris Yeltsin was always an orthodox, and you're ignoring the fact that virtually all South American communist regimes embraced Roman Catholicism.

I'm not sure if you're trying to sya that all atheists are communists, all communists are atheists or maybe some communists are atheists. I'll agree with the latter. I'm certainly not a communist - anything but, and I don't think I know a communist, although I know plenty of atheists / non religious people.

There are plenty of examples of Christians who had feral political beliefs for that matter. Adolf Hitler is one.

So whatever argument you were trying to make, it just disintegrated into particles.

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« Last Edit: Oct 24^th, 2008 at 9:50am by muso »

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tallowood

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Re: Is atheism a religious belief?
Reply #148 - Oct 24^th, 2008 at 9:28am

muso wrote on Oct 24^th, 2008 at 7:27am:

Boris Yeltsin was always an orthodox, and you're ignoring the fact that virtually all South American communist regimes embraced Roman Catholicism.

I'm not sure if you're trying to sya that all atheists are communists, all communists are atheists or maybe some communists are atheists. I'll agree with the latter. I'm certainly not a communists - anything but, and I don't think I know a communist, although I know plenty of atheists / non religious people.

There are plenty of examples of Christians who had feral political beliefs for that matter. Adolf Hitler is one.

So whatever argument you were trying to make, it just disintegrated into particles.

Boris always was a liar because to join CPSU he would have to lie that he was not Christian. The same goes for some of your SA examples while others were mentally demented like in the atheistic story about a sick person in asylum called himself Jesus or Karl Marx for that matter. Yes they can call themselves that but it does not make them so. So what your were saying in that regard is but argumentum ad populum.

I never said that all atheists are communists. Why do you keep coming with this false pretence?

What I said is atheism is a religion or more particular the religion of denial. So the more you deny it the more proof you provide.

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tallowood

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Re: Is atheism a religious belief?
Reply #149 - Oct 24^th, 2008 at 9:32am

Kytro wrote on Oct 24^th, 2008 at 7:23am:

tallowood wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 4:14pm:

Agree with correction this has nothing to do with religion including atheism.

I am still not convinced it is a religion, not in it's own right in any case.
There are various religions and spiritual beliefs that incorporate atheism.

I am not trying to convince you that atheism is a religion because it would be a waste of my time the same way as if I was trying to convince abu that there are plenty of other gods beside Allah or that Allah doesn’t exist. Abu is most definitely a religious person so to summarize: if there is a person who walks like a religionist, talks like a religionist, looks like a religionist and argues according to his or her set of believes like a religionist then that person could be a Christian, a Muslim, a Buddhist, an Atheist or any other religious person. "quod erat demonstrandum"

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