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Gay marriage and children (Read 41844 times)
easel
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Re: Gay marriage and children
Reply #90 - Sep 28th, 2008 at 2:28pm
 
queer wrote on Sep 28th, 2008 at 11:01am:
easel wrote on Sep 27th, 2008 at 12:47pm:
I don't think two gay men should have kids. Foster carers maybe, but no full adoption.


And why is that? What do you think two men aren't capable of doing? Theres single fathers out the that raise their children just fine so why cant two fathers do it just as good or better?
Maybe you should give some un-bigoted thought to the matter.


Men don't make good mothers, then again neither do some women. I'm not a bigot.
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muso
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Re: Gay marriage and children
Reply #91 - Sep 28th, 2008 at 2:31pm
 
Sprintcyclist wrote on May 22nd, 2008 at 8:21am:
yes we can stop gays having kids. can certainly stop them adopting !!


How do you stop a gay man having kids with his wife? It happens all the time. Some people should simply never have got married, but they live out unhappy lives just because the family could not stand the disgrace and arranged a marriage to save the family reputation.

They live out their lives trying to hide what they do naturally from their wives.

I know of one case. When he was 18, he was caught with 7 older men. Let your imagination work out what they were doing, but they were not taking turns to play leap-frog with him. Everybody in the area knew about it (country Queensland). The 7 older guys were all married themselves (some happily). It was hushed up (if you tell anybody, don't tell them I told you) because the family was  local 'establishment'. Less than a year later, he was married. His wife knows the story and knows of some of his post nuptial adventures at least, but they stay together, partly because of the kids I guess. If you didn't know he was gay, you would never guess, but I don't make a point of talking to him. I don't know why, but the thought gives me the creeps.

Fortunately there is a lot less of such arranged marriages nowadays.
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« Last Edit: Sep 28th, 2008 at 3:19pm by muso »  

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mantra
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Re: Gay marriage and children
Reply #92 - Sep 28th, 2008 at 5:15pm
 
Quote:
How do you stop a gay man having kids with his wife? It happens all the time. Some people should simply never have got married, but they live out unhappy lives just because the family could not stand the disgrace and arranged a marriage to save the family reputation.

They live out their lives trying to hide what they do naturally from their wives.


I don't think gay men marry anymore.  Homosexuality is legal and out in the open and there's no need for males to hide their preferences.  Up until the late 70's though homosexuality was illegal -so until then men had to pretend to be somebody they weren't.

I don't remember meeting any gay boys/men when I was younger - although there must have been plenty around, but they just hid it  - probably from themselves as well.

Gays seem to have burst out of the closet in the 80's and now it seems we're overwhelmed with gay men and they're proud of it, which is preferable to them being ashamed and locked up a few decades earlier.
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muso
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Re: Gay marriage and children
Reply #93 - Sep 29th, 2008 at 7:09am
 
mantra wrote on Sep 28th, 2008 at 5:15pm:
I don't think gay men marry anymore.  Homosexuality is legal and out in the open and there's no need for males to hide their preferences.  Up until the late 70's though homosexuality was illegal -so until then men had to pretend to be somebody they weren't.

I don't remember meeting any gay boys/men when I was younger - although there must have been plenty around, but they just hid it  - probably from themselves as well.

Gays seem to have burst out of the closet in the 80's and now it seems we're overwhelmed with gay men and they're proud of it, which is preferable to them being ashamed and locked up a few decades earlier.


That might be the case in downtown Sydney, but this guy married in the late 80's. I suspect there might still be a few like him here in rural Queensland who marry for convenience. He would be the only gay man I know of in this area, but there must be a lot more out there.
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mantra
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Re: Gay marriage and children
Reply #94 - Sep 29th, 2008 at 10:14am
 
Quote:
That might be the case in downtown Sydney, but this guy married in the late 80's. I suspect there might still be a few like him here in rural Queensland who marry for convenience. He would be the only gay man I know of in this area, but there must be a lot more out there.


Yes I saw a documentary on a gay cowboy - he had a small part in Brokeback Mountain but there were a group of gay graziers and farmers that met regularly.  They were all big, bronzed aussies but until recently had had to keep their preferences secret.

It was very sad actually - because they all looked so macho but had had to live a lie - so I could imagine there would be plenty more in the country who were still too scared to come out.  City people might be more tolerant than those from the country.
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bliss
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Re: Gay marriage and children
Reply #95 - Sep 29th, 2008 at 6:09pm
 
heterosexual couple has twins........that's nature. Lesbians have twins and try to sue the doctor after an artificial conception............get over it and be grateful. how will the twins feel and which one was the first and wanted? this just proves we cannot control everything in life, gay or straight.


[url]Pair wanting one IVF baby sue over twins

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September 18, 2007 - 4:04PM
AdvertisementAdvertisement

An IVF doctor swore in horror after he mistakenly implanted two embryos into a woman who only wanted one baby, a Canberra court was told during a landmark case.

In the first case of its kind in Australia, a lesbian couple is suing prominent Canberra obstetrician Dr Sydney Robert Armellin for more than $400,000 in the ACT Supreme Court for implanting two embryos instead of the requested one.

The procedure, which used sperm from a Danish donor, resulted in the birth of twin baby girls, who are now aged three.

Their mothers, whose combined income is almost $120,000, want $398,000 to cover the costs of raising one of the girls, including fees for a private Steiner school in Melbourne.

They also are seeking around $15,000 to compensate them for time off work, plus an additional amount for medical expenses.

Minutes before the procedure at the John James Medical Memorial Hospital in Deakin on November 13, 2003, the birth mother told Dr Armellin she only wanted one embryo implanted.

Dr Armellin said he warned the woman she could still have multiple pregnancies if the embryo spilt and she replied, "Do not even joke about it, I only want one," according to her barrister Hugh Marshall SC.

The obstetrician did not tell the embryologist of the woman's wishes before the procedure began.

Dr Armellin told the court he only realised two embryos had been inserted moments after the embryologist had sent them down the catheter.

"I said I understand she only wanted one embryo ... the embryologist said no, there are two, she signed for two.

"(I said) oh bugger."

Dr Armellin agreed it was a mistake to implant two embryos instead of one.

He said the usual practice of the embryologist talking to a patient before a procedure did not occur because the woman was under general anaesthetic.

"Yes, it was an incorrect procedure, I acknowledge that," Dr Armellin said.

The birth mother, who cannot be identified for legal reasons, told the court she suffered nausea during her pregnancy and in the latter stages could only move around with a walking stick.

She said she and her partner briefly considered adopting out one of the girls but quickly dismissed the idea as absurd.

"You thought: `Which one am I not meant to have'?" Dr Armellin's barrister Kim Burke asked.

"Yes, I did," the woman replied.

She said adopting out one child would be unfair to both girls.

"The primary consideration was that adoption shifted the burden of responsibility for this situation onto the children," she said tearfully.

"The burden is not the children's to bear.

"The burden is ours alone."

The woman said she had enjoyed some aspects of the pregnancy, such as decorating the girls' nursery, but other parts were distressing, including purchasing a pram.

"It was like the last frontier of acceptance to spend hundreds of dollars on a pram," she said.

Dr Armellin remains a practising obstetrician and gynaecologist at his private surgery in Deakin and does consulting work for several Canberra hospitals.

Justice Annabelle Bennett is expected to hear evidence from the birth mother's partner on Wednesday.

She granted an application from Mr Marshall to ban publication of the names of both mothers and their twins, saying the information could not only harm the girls now but also when they were older.

© 2007 AAP
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queer
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Re: Gay marriage and children
Reply #96 - Sep 30th, 2008 at 8:53am
 
easel wrote on Sep 28th, 2008 at 2:28pm:
queer wrote on Sep 28th, 2008 at 11:01am:
easel wrote on Sep 27th, 2008 at 12:47pm:
I don't think two gay men should have kids. Foster carers maybe, but no full adoption.


And why is that? What do you think two men aren't capable of doing? Theres single fathers out the that raise their children just fine so why cant two fathers do it just as good or better?
Maybe you should give some un-bigoted thought to the matter.


Men don't make good mothers, then again neither do some women. I'm not a bigot.

Nice generalizations there!
If you feel that GLBT people shouldn't have the same rights and opportunities as straight people then yes, you are a bigot.
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Sprintcyclist
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Re: Gay marriage and children
Reply #97 - Sep 30th, 2008 at 9:37am
 
Hi queer - how are you ?

generalisations are generally correct

You say bigot as though it were a bad thing !!!!!!
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Re: Gay marriage and children
Reply #98 - Sep 30th, 2008 at 9:57am
 
oceanz wrote on Aug 26th, 2007 at 12:30pm:
Quote:
Many couples around want to adopt anyway. Better kids have a mum and a dad


I think there is a lot of merit in this statement.

Does anyone else have a veiw on gay parents?

Go on -deafen me with your silence.

I'm perhaps a little old fashioned. I don't really care if gay men or women get married, I think they should have the same legal rights as everyone else, no problem there. But I don't think they should have children. Kids should at least start their lives with a mother and father, both are important and essential in the lives of children. So much happens in life anyway (death, divorce) and kids have to live without one or both, and it's possible to come out of it fairly unscathed, but children should start out with both. The only reasonable thing to do if gay people had children would be to ensure the child had a role model of the opposite sex (to the parents) involved positively and regularly in their life, especially if the child was the opposite sex to the parents.
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Sprintcyclist
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Re: Gay marriage and children
Reply #99 - Sep 30th, 2008 at 10:36am
 

jordan - I am older school .

No way should homos marry or have kids.

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queer
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Re: Gay marriage and children
Reply #100 - Sep 30th, 2008 at 10:43am
 
Sprintcyclist wrote on Sep 30th, 2008 at 9:37am:
Hi queer - how are you ?

generalisations are generally correct

You say bigot as though it were a bad thing !!!!!!

you don't regard social, racial and sexual prejudice as a bad thing?



Sprintcyclist wrote on Sep 30th, 2008 at 10:36am:
jordan - I am older school .

No way should homos marry or have kids.


Why? Are we lesser people with lesser rights are we? Are we not entitled to the same rights as everyone else? Why should private bedroom activities dictate our rights in the world?
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Sprintcyclist
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Re: Gay marriage and children
Reply #101 - Sep 30th, 2008 at 10:51am
 
not really, why ??

anyone with a pinch of horse sense would honestly admit they exist everywhere and are generally true.



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queer
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Re: Gay marriage and children
Reply #102 - Sep 30th, 2008 at 10:56am
 
Sprintcyclist wrote on Sep 30th, 2008 at 10:51am:
not really, why ??

anyone with a pinch of horse sense would honestly admit they exist everywhere and are generally true.



You are a bigot and a homophobe and its people with your mentality that prevent the world moving forward, you prevent not only tolerance but acceptance as well.
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Sprintcyclist
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Re: Gay marriage and children
Reply #103 - Sep 30th, 2008 at 11:00am
 
yyyaaawwwnnnn
really ? 


Tell me, when the 100 metre sprinters line up at the olympics, what colour are they ??

how do 2 homos convieve a child ? By osmosis ??
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queer
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Re: Gay marriage and children
Reply #104 - Sep 30th, 2008 at 11:03am
 
Sprintcyclist wrote on Sep 30th, 2008 at 11:00am:
yyyaaawwwnnnn
really ? 


Tell me, when the 100 metre sprinters line up at the olympics, what colour are they ??

how do 2 homos convieve a child ? By osmosis ??

Adoption or via a girl friend. Whats wrong with adoption? Theres tons of kids out there that need a loving home.
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