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Gay marriage and children (Read 41671 times)
freediver
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Re: Gay marriage and children
Reply #30 - May 12th, 2008 at 3:59pm
 
Yes it does. It denies gay people the same rights that straight people have. Defining the term such that it only includes straight people is no less discriminatory than defining a term such that it only includes white people.
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deepthought
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Re: Gay marriage and children
Reply #31 - May 12th, 2008 at 4:32pm
 
freediver wrote on May 12th, 2008 at 3:59pm:
Yes it does. It denies gay people the same rights that straight people have. Defining the term such that it only includes straight people is no less discriminatory than defining a term such that it only includes white people.


Not in the slightest. The Marriage Act does not differentiate between the colour, race, religion or sexual orientation of the parties.  It only stipulates that the state of marriage can only be legal between a man and a woman.  Any man or woman.

The definition of discrimination according to Dictionary.com is

Quote:
treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit


You must understand the distinction to understand the discussion.   And at the moment you don't.  You think discrimination exists where it doesn't.  This is very important.

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Aussie
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Re: Gay marriage and children
Reply #32 - May 12th, 2008 at 5:02pm
 
I'm coming into this very late in the debate, but mayhap, DT, you have not understood that when there is discrimination, on many occasions, that is not unlawful, or even perhaps, not anti-social.

Frankly I don't care if homosexuals 'marry.'  They can do what they please, within the Law, just like me.  But:

I do have a concern with final outcome for a child brought up in a same sex parenting relationship, and I doubt there is yet any compelling research, one way or the other.
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deepthought
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Re: Gay marriage and children
Reply #33 - May 12th, 2008 at 5:14pm
 
Aussie wrote on May 12th, 2008 at 5:02pm:
I'm coming into this very late in the debate, but mayhap, DT, you have not understood that when there is discrimination, on many occasions, that is not unlawful, or even perhaps, not anti-social.

Frankly I don't care if homosexuals 'marry.'  They can do what they please, within the Law, just like me.  But:

I do have a concern with final outcome for a child brought up in a same sex parenting relationship, and I doubt there is yet any compelling research, one way or the other.


Charges of discriminatory legislation can only be levelled against the law when the legislation allows a group of people different behaviour or privilege.  For example 'only whites may ride the bus' or 'only men may vote'.

No such discrimination exists in law against marriage as anyone may marry as long as they comply with the requirements of being of age, of not being related etc.
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Aussie
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Re: Gay marriage and children
Reply #34 - May 12th, 2008 at 5:21pm
 
deepthought wrote on May 12th, 2008 at 5:14pm:
Aussie wrote on May 12th, 2008 at 5:02pm:
I'm coming into this very late in the debate, but mayhap, DT, you have not understood that when there is discrimination, on many occasions, that is not unlawful, or even perhaps, not anti-social.

Frankly I don't care if homosexuals 'marry.'  They can do what they please, within the Law, just like me.  But:

I do have a concern with final outcome for a child brought up in a same sex parenting relationship, and I doubt there is yet any compelling research, one way or the other.


Charges of discriminatory legislation can only be levelled against the law when the legislation allows a group of people different behaviour or privilege.  For example 'only whites may ride the bus' or 'only men may vote'.

No such discrimination exists in law against marriage as anyone may marry as long as they comply with the requirements of being of age, of not being related etc.



.....and so?
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mantra
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Re: Gay marriage and children
Reply #35 - May 12th, 2008 at 5:23pm
 
Quote:
Charges of discriminatory legislation can only be levelled against the law when the legislation allows a group of people different behaviour or privilege.  For example 'only whites may ride the bus' or 'only men may vote'.


That reads like discrimination.   Males and females can marry someone of the opposite sex, but not of the same sex. 

As far as how children thrive being brought up with same sex parents - the evidence so far has been quite positive overseas.

In many cases, two stable parents of the same sex would certainly provide a better life for the child than one unstable parent battling on his/her own.

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deepthought
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Re: Gay marriage and children
Reply #36 - May 12th, 2008 at 5:42pm
 
mantra wrote on May 12th, 2008 at 5:23pm:
Quote:
Charges of discriminatory legislation can only be levelled against the law when the legislation allows a group of people different behaviour or privilege.  For example 'only whites may ride the bus' or 'only men may vote'.


That reads like discrimination.   Males and females can marry someone of the opposite sex, but not of the same sex.  





But a man may not marry several women either.  In your view is that discrimination that it is restricted to one spouse only?
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Neferti
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Re: Gay marriage and children
Reply #37 - May 12th, 2008 at 5:43pm
 
freediver wrote on May 12th, 2008 at 3:59pm:
Yes it does. It denies gay people the same rights that straight people have. Defining the term such that it only includes straight people is no less discriminatory than defining a term such that it only includes white people.


Freediver,

You forgot the word LEGAL (as in Legal rights).  The ACT Government has been pushing for this for years (same sex marriages). I, personally, would vote YES (in case you wondered). Let them have the same problems as everyone else, legally and et cetera.  Wink

Howard's Government quashed it and then when Rudd's Government gained power, the ACT Government reintroduced the Legislation, again, to be told NO by Rudd.

How DARE the Federal Government over-rule a State/Territory's Legislation.  Angry

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deepthought
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Re: Gay marriage and children
Reply #38 - May 12th, 2008 at 5:48pm
 
Aussie wrote on May 12th, 2008 at 5:21pm:
.....and so?



And so . . .  it's time for bed for you young feller.  You've had a story read to you by deepy and you're off to bed.
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freediver
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Re: Gay marriage and children
Reply #39 - May 12th, 2008 at 5:53pm
 
The Marriage Act does not differentiate between the colour, race, religion or sexual orientation of the parties.  It only stipulates that the state of marriage can only be legal between a man and a woman.

It is discrimination based on sexual orientation to define a legal marriage as between a man and a woman. The fact that that is the current legal definition does not mean it isn't discriminatory.

A definition that says marriage is between two people does not discriminate based on sexual orientation.
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deepthought
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Re: Gay marriage and children
Reply #40 - May 12th, 2008 at 6:11pm
 
freediver wrote on May 12th, 2008 at 5:53pm:
The Marriage Act does not differentiate between the colour, race, religion or sexual orientation of the parties.  It only stipulates that the state of marriage can only be legal between a man and a woman.

It is discrimination based on sexual orientation to define a legal marriage as between a man and a woman. The fact that that is the current legal definition does not mean it isn't discriminatory.

A definition that says marriage is between two people does not discriminate based on sexual orientation.


Your being disingenuous again, I'll ask you the same question as I asked mantra who promptly vanished.  Does the Marriage Act discriminate against those who believe in polygamy?  Will you answer or will you vanish too
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freediver
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Re: Gay marriage and children
Reply #41 - May 12th, 2008 at 6:14pm
 
Does the Marriage Act discriminate against those who believe in polygamy?

Yes.
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Neferti
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Re: Gay marriage and children
Reply #42 - May 12th, 2008 at 6:15pm
 
mantra wrote on May 12th, 2008 at 5:23pm:
[quote]As far as how children thrive being brought up with same sex parents - the evidence so far has been quite positive overseas.


Link to the statistics, please. Wink

Quote:
In many cases, two stable parents of the same sex would certainly provide a better life for the child than one unstable parent battling on his/her own.


How many people have you known who were married, had children and then decided they preferred the same sex? Divorced. Began a homosexual relationship and the children were brought up by Mum and Sally (or whomever) with Dad having access?  That works both ways too ... Dad and Paul or whomever.

Children don't read the Law, they just know whether they are loved or not.

I doubt there are statistics on this though.  Plus I doubt that Mum and Sally or Dad and Paul getting a Marriage Certificate would make an ounce of difference.

Homosexuals (male or female) expecting to concrete their relationship by introducing babies (via adoption or whatever) is an entirely different kettle of fish.

What makes you so sure that children bought up by their Mother (minus Father) is disadvantaged? Or for that matter why a Dad can't lovingly bring up his children all-by-himself if Mum dies or hits the road!  I know many women (and a few men) who have bought up their children all by themselves due to divorce.

Are you so narrow minded that your idea of a "single parent" only includes drug addicts and dole recipients.  
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Aussie
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Re: Gay marriage and children
Reply #43 - May 12th, 2008 at 6:33pm
 
deepthought wrote on May 12th, 2008 at 5:48pm:
Aussie wrote on May 12th, 2008 at 5:21pm:
.....and so?



And so . . .  it's time for bed for you young feller.  You've had a story read to you by deepy and you're off to bed.


Can't argue with that. 

You do write very good 'bed time' stories.......specials, dreaming semantics etc etc, which would put the worst insomniac to sleep!
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mantra
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Re: Gay marriage and children
Reply #44 - May 12th, 2008 at 6:35pm
 
Hilarious neferti.  

Actually I do know a couple of Mums and Sallies and the fathers have access - it isn't that uncommon.

As far as a link for the success of same sex relationships and kids, I will find it for you later - if I could be bothered.
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