Australian Politics Forum - Gay marriage and children

NorthOfNorth

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Re: Gay marriage and children
Reply #300 - Dec 17^th, 2008 at 12:04pm

Jim Profit wrote on Dec 17^th, 2008 at 11:56am:

Quote:

But there are legal protections, as there should be. Marriage is also a financial contract.

You mean there can be legal protections and marriage can be a financial contract.

I'm not saying what it is, I'm saying what it should be.

Yes, at the moment it's a financial contract more then a religious ceremony blahblahblah. But I'm saying we should fight to reduce the effectiveness of marriage, not esculate it. That way we don't have to worry about being fair to anyone.

Cause why should only gays get to be married? Why can't my creepy uncle marry a twelve year old? Or my perverted friend have multiple wives?

All this just creates more beurocracy and more responsibility on the government and ultimately on the taxpayer. So it'd be easier for everyone to just drop the ball and say "figure it out for yourselves".

The ideal human condition appears obvious to children.

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freediver

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Re: Gay marriage and children
Reply #301 - Dec 17^th, 2008 at 4:42pm

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So it'd be easier for everyone to just drop the ball and say "figure it out for yourselves".

No it wouldn't. A lot of these rights arose through case law. For example, if two people live together for a while and share everything during that time, then split up and disagree on how to divide previously shared property, it will fall to the courts to decide. You cannot avoid the case law, because the decisions still have to be made and will set a precedent.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Jim Profit

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Re: Gay marriage and children
Reply #302 - Dec 17^th, 2008 at 5:45pm

And that was their first mistake. Property by it's very nature cannot be shared.

They need to draw the line on what is who's when they buy property. Evidently I don't think anyone cares about the small things. (unless they're trying to be petty, and the courts will just ignore that) Like cars and houses.

Once that's established, there shouldn't be any problems regarding property. And maybe since the courts will just ignore people otherwise, that'll motivate them not to get in those situations and pick the people they live with more carefully.

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But I still believe there's something left for you and me.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 53221 At my desk.	Re: Gay marriage and children Reply #303 - Dec 18^th, 2008 at 11:01pm That's a pretty naive approach - hoping the problem will go away. The laws are necessary because people do get themselves into that situation.
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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Gay marriage and children
Reply #304 - Dec 18^th, 2008 at 11:17pm

Jim Profit wrote on Dec 17^th, 2008 at 5:45pm:

And that was their first mistake. Property by it's very nature cannot be shared.

They need to draw the line on what is who's when they buy property. Evidently I don't think anyone cares about the small things. (unless they're trying to be petty, and the courts will just ignore that) Like cars and houses.

Once that's established, there shouldn't be any problems regarding property. And maybe since the courts will just ignore people otherwise, that'll motivate them not to get in those situations and pick the people they live with more carefully.

The ideal human condition appears obvious to children.

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Conviction is the art of being certain

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Blasko

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Re: Gay marriage and children
Reply #305 - Jan 15^th, 2009 at 6:47pm

muso wrote on Nov 17^th, 2008 at 10:39am:

It's not a subject that I profess to know much about (gaiety, gayness whatever) but I think a lot of it must come down to what society regards as right.

My opinion is that Gay couples should not have the same adoption rights as straight couples. I can't put that opinion down to anything that's logically derived. It's just a gut feeling that it's not right to bring up kids in that kind of environment. If it came to a referendum, I'd probably vote against Gay marriage unless I could be sure that it didn't involve equal rights for adoption of kids.

I'm probably prejudiced in that regard, but who isn't prejudiced in some way?

Can we always define all that is right in terms of logical argument, or should gut feeling (just knowing what is right or wrong without being able to put a finger on it) play a part?

So we should base national or state policy on 'gut feelings'? Good luck with that, we'll drive this country into the ground.

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Calanen

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Re: Gay marriage and children
Reply #306 - Jan 15^th, 2009 at 7:02pm

What i want to know is, why cant we have communal marriages if we can have gay ones? Say I would like a few wives, and say there are a few husbands too, and we all mix and match - cant we all be married? Why not? Isnt that denying me my fundamental human right to have any sort of relationship I want sanctioned by the state, no matter how burdensome and no matter what its consequences are for the state?

We are after all, all consenting adults.

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ISLAM is a vicious [un-reformable] political tyranny, which has always murdered its critics, and it continues that practice even today.

Yadda

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mantra

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Re: Gay marriage and children
Reply #307 - Jan 15^th, 2009 at 8:02pm

Quote:

What i want to know is, why cant we have communal marriages if we can have gay ones? Say I would like a few wives, and say there are a few husbands too, and we all mix and match - cant we all be married?

Ohh..you like men too do you Calanen? I was almost going to say if you became a Muslim and moved to a Muslim country - you could have as many wives as you wanted - but sadly not a husband.

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Calanen

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Re: Gay marriage and children
Reply #308 - Jan 15^th, 2009 at 8:21pm

mantra wrote on Jan 15^th, 2009 at 8:02pm:

What i want to know is, why cant we have communal marriages if we can have gay ones? Say I would like a few wives, and say there are a few husbands too, and we all mix and match - cant we all be married?

Quote:

Ohh..you like men too do you Calanen?

Is that meant to be an insult? What if I did? Or what if I didn't? Does it matter?

It was just a hypothetical, not a serious proposal. But the same logic for gay marriage would seem to extend to the approval of *any* combination of consenting adults.

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Quote:

ISLAM is a vicious [un-reformable] political tyranny, which has always murdered its critics, and it continues that practice even today.

Yadda

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Calanen Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2241	Re: Gay marriage and children Reply #309 - Jan 15^th, 2009 at 8:22pm Quote: you could have as many wives as you wanted Sadly no. You cap out at 4 in Islam. But you can rape as many infidel captives as you like as 'war booty.' The Prophet however could have as many as he wanted.
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oceanz Gold Member Offline Auzgurl.. Posts: 3531 Gender:	Re: Gay marriage and children Reply #310 - Jan 15^th, 2009 at 8:23pm another Islam thread..I thought it too good to be true.
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mantra Gold Member Offline ozpolitic.com Posts: 10750 Gender:	Re: Gay marriage and children Reply #311 - Jan 15^th, 2009 at 8:24pm I was only joking Calanen - I don't care what your preferences are. It wasn't meant to offend you - I thought you might see the humour in it, but I guess I was wrong.
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Calanen

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Re: Gay marriage and children
Reply #312 - Jan 15^th, 2009 at 8:27pm

mantra wrote on Jan 15^th, 2009 at 8:24pm:

I was only joking Calanen - I don't care what your preferences are. It wasn't meant to offend you - I thought you might see the humour in it, but I guess I was wrong.

It didn't offend me (I'm not sure what could offend me) but I thought (perhaps wrongly) that it was a 'slight' as insinuation of being gay seems to be on the internetz.

Not that I care one way or another. Who wants to do what to each other in the bedroom, as long as everyone is an adult, I could care less. It's only when it becomes social policy, or I have to pay for it in some way - that it concerns me.

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ISLAM is a vicious [un-reformable] political tyranny, which has always murdered its critics, and it continues that practice even today.

Yadda

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freediver

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Re: Gay marriage and children
Reply #313 - Jan 15^th, 2009 at 9:57pm

Quote:

Isnt that denying me my fundamental human right to have any sort of relationship I want sanctioned by the state, no matter how burdensome and no matter what its consequences are for the state?

No. You can set up the approrpiate contractual arrangements if you really want, and have sex with whoever you want. Though I don't see how the contractual side would work.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Calanen

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Re: Gay marriage and children
Reply #314 - Jan 16^th, 2009 at 11:08am

freediver wrote on Jan 15^th, 2009 at 9:57pm:

Quote:

Isnt that denying me my fundamental human right to have any sort of relationship I want sanctioned by the state, no matter how burdensome and no matter what its consequences are for the state?

No. You can set up the approrpiate contractual arrangements if you really want, and have sex with whoever you want. Though I don't see how the contractual side would work.

You cant contract as to personal relationships.

But what I am getting at is, should the state sanction any combination of men and/or women, in as many numbers as a 'marriage' just because it is consenting adults?

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Quote:

ISLAM is a vicious [un-reformable] political tyranny, which has always murdered its critics, and it continues that practice even today.

Yadda

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