Australian Politics Forum - Gay marriage and children

easel Gold Member Offline Posts: 3120	Re: Gay marriage and children Reply #120 - Sep 30^th, 2008 at 3:37pm Freediver, are we allowed to discuss sexuality in an explicit context?
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Mod. Moderator Offline OzPolitic Posts: 1200 Gender:	Re: Gay marriage and children Reply #121 - Sep 30^th, 2008 at 3:47pm easel wrote on Sep 30^th, 2008 at 3:37pm: Freediver, are we allowed to discuss sexuality in an explicit context? Fire away, but use some common sense, and bare in mind that I am a tad on the prudish side. BTW, I am not FD. I moderate this Sub-Forum.
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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 41921 Gender:	Re: Gay marriage and children Reply #122 - Sep 30^th, 2008 at 3:53pm queer - i hope you tell the women that you are gay and may be exposing them to diseases. Maybe you should also tell them that you sleep with anything that moves. If it doesn't, you will push it.
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easel

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Re: Gay marriage and children
Reply #123 - Sep 30^th, 2008 at 3:57pm

I'll do my best Mod.

queer wrote on Sep 30^th, 2008 at 3:17pm:

I feel that in the end, as we will all get what we want, you will be the one that has to "deal with it" because the world progresses, albeit slowly, and the ultimate outcome of the GLBT community is equal rights.
Gay? not 100% as I still find women attractive and get turned on by them, I even sleep with them occasionally so no, I'm not completely gay, although I wouldn't mind if I was.

Alright mate. Question time.

Do you acknowledge there is a difference between an erection and being turned on? For example, you will often wake up in the morning in what appears to be a state of arousal whilst not being in the mood for sex, right?

Now, when you are with someone of the same sex, and you have an erection, do you notice you might get a tingle for want of a better description in your penis and you have trouble talking? When you are with someone of the opposite sex, do you get this same tingle and have a difficulty in engaging in conversation?

When you are with someone of the same sex, do you have no problem getting aroused without any touch, talk or suggestive body language?

When you are with someone of the opposite sex, is it harder for you to get aroused, ie there might be a need for touching, oral sex and affection in general?

Where as one might be emotional the other is purely physical? Or are you exactly the same with both?

I highly doubt this as you said you prefer men and rarely engage women.

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jordan484

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Re: Gay marriage and children
Reply #124 - Sep 30^th, 2008 at 7:05pm

queer wrote on Sep 30^th, 2008 at 3:07pm:

Naturalism is flawed reasoning, by the same reasoning we can agree that we should never cut our hair or shave. We can also add to that that straight couples that cannot reproduce due to some defect on either partners part will result in them not having the right to adopt because they cannot reproduce naturally.
Your reasoning is flawed form the start and reeks of prejudice.

Not really the same. My wife and I had the necessary equipment to make a child, we just needed some assistance in getting them together. Two men do not have the right equipment to make a baby, nor two women, no matter how much assistance is given. I think that's the difference.

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queer

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Re: Gay marriage and children
Reply #125 - Oct 1^st, 2008 at 8:30am

Sprintcyclist wrote on Sep 30^th, 2008 at 3:53pm:

queer - i hope you tell the women that you are gay and may be exposing them to diseases.
Maybe you should also tell them that you sleep with anything that moves. If it doesn't, you will push it.

I don't tell them I'm gay because I'm not, I tell them I'm bi and they never have a problem with that. Yeah Yeah I know, we all carry diseases right? You're a misguided fool, haven't you ever heard of safe sex? I've never had a STD in my 30 years of existence. Nice bigotry there too, anything that moves? LMFAO.

Quote:

Do you acknowledge there is a difference between an erection and being turned on? For example, you will often wake up in the morning in what appears to be a state of arousal whilst not being in the mood for sex, right?

Naturally.

Quote:

Now, when you are with someone of the same sex, and you have an erection, do you notice you might get a tingle for want of a better description in your penis and you have trouble talking? When you are with someone of the opposite sex, do you get this same tingle and have a difficulty in engaging in conversation?

Never had what you describe with either, but its the same with either for me.

Quote:

When you are with someone of the same sex, do you have no problem getting aroused without any touch, talk or suggestive body language?

When you are with someone of the opposite sex, is it harder for you to get aroused, ie there might be a need for touching, oral sex and affection in general?Where as one might be emotional the other is purely physical? Or are you exactly the same with both?

Its the same with both and takes the same work to get aroused by both.

Quote:

I highly doubt this as you said you prefer men and rarely engage women.

I prefer guys because I get along with them better than girls, thats why. I also don't sleep with as many women because its easier to get a guy than a girl but If I feel the need to get a girl I do just that.

jordan484 wrote on Sep 30^th, 2008 at 7:05pm:

queer wrote on Sep 30^th, 2008 at 3:07pm:

Naturalism is flawed reasoning, by the same reasoning we can agree that we should never cut our hair or shave. We can also add to that that straight couples that cannot reproduce due to some defect on either partners part will result in them not having the right to adopt because they cannot reproduce naturally.
Your reasoning is flawed form the start and reeks of prejudice.

Not really the same. My wife and I had the necessary equipment to make a child, we just needed some assistance in getting them together. Two men do not have the right equipment to make a baby, nor two women, no matter how much assistance is given. I think that's the difference.

Its still discrimination because if one person is allowed to adopt or have a surrogate child then any GLBT person should also be allowed to, its about equal rights as human beings.

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« Last Edit: Oct 1^st, 2008 at 8:37am by queer »

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mantra

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Re: Gay marriage and children
Reply #126 - Oct 1^st, 2008 at 9:03am

There is a lot of positive information from studies regarding gay parents raising children and it won't be too long into the future that this will be considered "normal". As long as the children grow up well balanced and happy - it shouldn't matter what orientation the parents are.

The American Academy of Pediatrics' Committee on Psychosocial Aspects of Child and Family Health issued a report in 2002, the most recent comprehensive review of gay-parenting studies. It found no meaningful differences between children raised by gay parents and those raised by heterosexual parents.

The committee reviewed scientific literature encompassing three broad sets of studies. The first set assessed the attitudes, behavior and adjustments of lesbian and gay parents and found, according to the AAP report, "more similarities than differences in the parenting styles and attitudes of gay and nongay fathers." Likewise, the research showed that lesbian mothers scored the same as heterosexual mothers in "self-esteem, psychologic adjustment and attitudes toward child rearing."

The second set of studies looked at the gender identity and sexual orientation of children raised by gay parents. The committee report found that none of the several hundred children studied evinced gender identity confusion, wished to be of the other sex or consistently engaged in cross-gender behavior. No differences were found in the toy, game, activity, dress or friendship preferences of boys or girls with gay parents compared with those with heterosexual parents, nor any differences in sexual attraction or self-identification as gay.

The third research area discussed in the report covers children's emotional and social development. These studies have primarily compared children raised by lesbians who are divorced with children of divorced heterosexual mothers. No differences have been found in personality measures, peer group relationships, self-esteem, behavioral difficulties, academic success and quality of family relationships. The studies suggest only one meaningful difference: Children of lesbian parents are "more tolerant of diversity and more nurturing toward younger children than children whose parents are heterosexual."

The American Academy of Pediatrics report is the most prestigious of its kind, but it is not the only one. Most reviews of the social science research reach the same conclusion: The proposition that children suffer when raised by gay parents is without basis. Indeed, some evidence suggests that the only significant difference between children raised by same-sex couples and children raised by heterosexual couples is that the former feel freer to explore occupations and behaviors unhampered by traditional gender roles — a good thing, perhaps.

and in regard to fostering.....

Currently half a million children live in foster care in the United States and more than 100,000 foster children await adoption. States must recruit parents who are interested and able to foster and adopt children. Three states currently restrict GLB individuals or couples from adopting. Several states have or are considering policies that would restrict GLB people from fostering.

The report concludes with an assessment of how proposed bans on allowing GLB individuals and couples to foster might affect foster care systems and fostered children. We estimate the possible financial cost to states if they were to limit or deny GLB people the ability to foster, which could displace 9,000 to 14,000 children if pursued nationally. And while we cannot measure costs to children directly, we explore prior research suggesting that displacing children from their current foster homes may have harmful effects on the children’s development and well-being. The report closes with implications of this research for policymakers.

More than one in three lesbians have given birth and one in six gay men have fathered or adopted a child.

More than half of gay men and 41 percent of lesbians want to have a child.

An estimated two million GLB people are interested in adopting.

An estimated 65,500 adopted children are living with a lesbian or gay parent.

More than 16,000 adopted children are living with lesbian and gay parents in California, the highest number among the states.

Gay and lesbian parents are raising four percent of all adopted children in the United States.

Same-sex couples raising adopted children are older, more educated, and have more economic resources than other adoptive parents.

Adopted children with same-sex parents are younger and more likely to be foreign born.

An estimated 14,100 foster children are living with lesbian or gay parents.

Gay and lesbian parents are raising three percent of foster children in the United States.

A national ban on GLB foster care could cost from $87 to $130 million.

Costs to individual states could range from $100,000 to $27 million.

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jordan484 Gold Member Offline Genuine Aussie Posts: 1115	Re: Gay marriage and children Reply #127 - Oct 1^st, 2008 at 9:17am Quote: These studies have primarily compared children raised by lesbians who are divorced with children of divorced heterosexual mothers. This sort of comparison is useless when determining how the father's absence in the home effects boys and girls. And it does.
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Sprintcyclist

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Re: Gay marriage and children
Reply #128 - Oct 1^st, 2008 at 10:37am

queer Quote:

I don't tell them I'm gay because I'm not, I tell them I'm bi and they never have a problem with that. Yeah Yeah I know, we all carry diseases right? You're a misguided fool, haven't you ever heard of safe sex? I've never had a STD in my 30 years of existence. Nice bigotry there too, anything that moves? LMFAO.

many people do have STDs. people more promiscuous have more STDs, people who bonk whoever moves will be most likely.
there are only men and women, and you bonk both. ie, whatever moves.

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queer

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Re: Gay marriage and children
Reply #129 - Oct 1^st, 2008 at 10:48am

Sprintcyclist wrote on Oct 1^st, 2008 at 10:37am:

queer Quote:

I don't tell them I'm gay because I'm not, I tell them I'm bi and they never have a problem with that. Yeah Yeah I know, we all carry diseases right? You're a misguided fool, haven't you ever heard of safe sex? I've never had a STD in my 30 years of existence. Nice bigotry there too, anything that moves? LMFAO.

many people do have STDs. people more promiscuous have more STDs, people who bonk whoever moves will be most likely.
there are only men and women, and you bonk both. ie, whatever moves.

You homophobes always have to have a dig don't ya?, typical narrow minded bigots! Y'all cant just accept people for who they are, instead you must judge and convict them on a very small part of their existence.
Promiscuity doesn't = STD's as every guy I've ever been with practiced safe sex, safe sex is strongly promoted in the GLBT community and its only fools who don't take part in it. You can be promiscuous and practice safe sex ya know.

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« Last Edit: Oct 1^st, 2008 at 10:57am by queer »

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mantra

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Re: Gay marriage and children
Reply #130 - Oct 1^st, 2008 at 11:02am

Quote:

You homophobes always have to have a dig don't ya?, typical narrow minded bigots! Y'all cant just accept people for who they are, instead you must judge and convict them on a very small part of their existence

Don't worry about what they say queer - each to their own. You are honest about your sexuality and that is very brave. Many bisexuals won't admit it and prefer to be secretive so they can't be criticised.

Bisexuality is commonplace and accepted amongst our youth today - it's just the older person who has trouble coming to terms that this isn't some rare condition similar to leprosy.

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queer

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Re: Gay marriage and children
Reply #131 - Oct 1^st, 2008 at 11:08am

mantra wrote on Oct 1^st, 2008 at 11:02am:

Quote:

You homophobes always have to have a dig don't ya?, typical narrow minded bigots! Y'all cant just accept people for who they are, instead you must judge and convict them on a very small part of their existence

Don't worry about what they say queer - each to their own. You are honest about your sexuality and that is very brave. Many bisexuals won't admit it and prefer to be secretive so they can't be criticised.

Bisexuality is commonplace and accepted amongst our youth today - it's just the older person who has trouble coming to terms that this isn't some rare condition similar to leprosy.

Yeah I know, ya know homosexuality was taken off the list of mental illnesses in the 70's and classed as natural and more and more people are accepting it as natural everyday. One can observe homosexuality in many animals as well as humans. Going form the bigots point of view regarding nature, if it wasn't natural it wouldn't exist!

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mantra

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Re: Gay marriage and children
Reply #132 - Oct 1^st, 2008 at 11:09am

Quote:

This sort of comparison is useless when determining how the father's absence in the home effects boys and girls. And it does.

Yes it probably is Jordan - but there are so many kids these days who grow up without a father or one that just plays a small role.

Two parents - regardless of what sex they are - should be better than one provided they have a loving relationship. It's all about making our children feel secure and loved and if you look at some of the cases recently making headlines about slack heterosexual parents abandoning and killing their kids - why not give gay couples a chance to prove themselves?

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jordan484

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Re: Gay marriage and children
Reply #133 - Oct 1^st, 2008 at 11:23am

Quote:

but there are so many kids these days who grow up without a father or one that just plays a small role.

Yep, and there are consequences, detrimental ones.

Quote:

Two parents - regardless of what sex they are - should be better than one provided they have a loving relationship.

It's not about how many parents a child has, it's about providing children with what they need. A mother is important, and so is a father, It doesn't matter how loving a gay couple may be, it's about providing the child with what they need.

Quote:

It's all about making our children feel secure and loved and if you look at some of the cases recently making headlines about slack heterosexual parents abandoning and killing their kids - why not give gay couples a chance to prove themselves?

It's partly making children feel secure and loved, but it's more than that. Sure there are bad heterosexual parents, and this is where we have learned the importance of good parenting and what children need from their parents. Gay couple are being given the chance, I just don't think it serves the children well. It is so much more than gay people claiming they have a right to children, it is about what's right for the children. If gay parents are providing a role model that is the opposite sex to themselves to their child, on a regular and positive basis, then that would be a start and a step in the right direction. But how many gay parents would actually do this, or even think that it would be important?

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jordan484 Gold Member Offline Genuine Aussie Posts: 1115	Re: Gay marriage and children Reply #134 - Oct 1^st, 2008 at 11:23am double post
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