Australian Politics Forum - 'practical' steps towards monoculturalism?

Soren

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Re: 'practical' steps towards monoculturalism?
Reply #45 - Oct 6^th, 2008 at 7:04pm

freediver wrote on Oct 6^th, 2008 at 1:28pm:

[quote]

Either that, or it never was as clear cut as they assumed and they are now more enlightened.

Q.:You make the shrewd observation of how political correctness engenders evil because of "the violence that it does to people's souls by forcing them to say or imply what they do not believe, but must not question." Can you talk about this a bit?

Dalrymple: Political correctness is communist propaganda writ small. In my study of communist societies, I came to the conclusion that the purpose of communist propaganda was not to persuade or convince, nor to inform, but to humiliate; and therefore, the less it corresponded to reality the better. When people are forced to remain silent when they are being told the most obvious lies, or even worse when they are forced to repeat the lies themselves, they lose once and for all their sense of probity. To assent to obvious lies is to co-operate with evil, and in some small way to become evil oneself. One's standing to resist anything is thus eroded, and even destroyed. A society of emasculated liars is easy to control. I think if you examine political correctness, it has the same effect and is intended to.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 53257 At my desk.	Re: 'practical' steps towards monoculturalism? Reply #46 - Oct 6^th, 2008 at 7:07pm So we've gone from monoculturalism to civilisation to political correctness to communism to evil. Can you explain how that is relevant Soren?
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Soren

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Re: 'practical' steps towards monoculturalism?
Reply #47 - Oct 6^th, 2008 at 7:47pm

freediver wrote on Oct 6^th, 2008 at 7:07pm:

So we've gone from monoculturalism to civilisation to political correctness to communism to evil.

Can you explain how that is relevant Soren?

Here's the dot point version:
- monoculture versus multiculture is an ill-formulated question
- the right way to look at it is in terms of what promotes or hinders civilisation
-some cultures, such as the Britannic heritage in Australia, is more civilised than most if not all other cultures valorised under the doctrine or policy or piety of multiculturalism
- promoting or valorising cultures that are merely tribal but do not promote greater civilisation (ie are more primitive) is done out of an excessive sense of deference to the 'other', a.k.a. political correctness. (as well as various forms of resentment we haven't touched on)
-Political correctness, one of the emotinional well-springs of multicultiuralism, is communism writ small
- because of its unuthfulness, political correctness nurtures small, daily acts of mendacity
-Lots of that is evil.

As I said, all this stuff is like the spectrum - it runs along a scale rather than present in clear and distictss categories.

So the inferior cultural practices are degrading compared to their betteer alternatives, whether expressd in cultural/sociological/political ideas (equality of cultures, say) or small, daily banalities of primitive corseness (ironmongery in face, tatoos, etc, etc).

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freediver

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Re: 'practical' steps towards monoculturalism?
Reply #48 - Oct 6^th, 2008 at 8:03pm

Britannic heritage in Australia, is more civilised

How so? Are you basing this on some kind of correlation, or something inherent to the culture?

Political correctness, one of the emotinional well-springs of multicultiuralism, is communism writ small

I thought it was all about not beating up ethnic people. Is that merely political correctness? Should we return to british traditions like beating up people who are different?

because of its unuthfulness, political correctness

What exactly is the lie?

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tallowood

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Re: 'practical' steps towards monoculturalism?
Reply #49 - Oct 6^th, 2008 at 8:05pm

Soren wrote on Oct 6^th, 2008 at 7:47pm:

...
-some cultures, such as the Britannic heritage in Australia, is more civilised than most if not all other cultures valorised under the doctrine or policy or piety of multiculturalism
...

Isn’t multiculturalism part of Britannic culture with all them Celtic, Roman, Germanic and what not components? Then there are two conclusions to be made: 1 Britannic culture is not as good as you say it is or multiculturalism is not as bad as you say it is.

Just in case it was missed I repeat: “As for "practical steps towards monoculturalism" cancelling dual citizenships would help.”

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 53257 At my desk.	Re: 'practical' steps towards monoculturalism? Reply #50 - Oct 6^th, 2008 at 8:07pm Yes I noticed that tallow. I think you were the first to make a practical suggestion.
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Soren

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Re: 'practical' steps towards monoculturalism?
Reply #51 - Oct 6^th, 2008 at 8:26pm

freediver wrote on Oct 6^th, 2008 at 8:03pm:

[quote]Britannic heritage in Australia, is more civilised

How so? Are you basing this on some kind of correlation, or something inherent to the culture?

One can immediately tell that Australia wa not colonised by Belgium, for example. Or the ottomans. Or the Javanese.

All the political and social institutions are British. Reason is the basis of public life.

Quote:

Political correctness, one of the emotinional well-springs of multicultiuralism, is communism writ small

I thought it was all about not beating up ethnic people. Is that merely political correctness? Should we return to british traditions like beating up people who are different?

That is not a British tradition as you well know it and not even a clever quip. Britain has its tradition of equality before the law and has taken it seriously. It was the driving force behind the abolishing of slavery. It has been on the right sidee of history in every conflict for a veery long time.

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because of its unuthfulness, political correctness[/i]

What exactly is the lie?

The equality of cultures. That discerning qualitative differenece is discrimination. In other words, our everyday practice of telling the difference between good and bad things in our personal lives and dealings should not apply to other people's cultures because their feeling might get hurt.

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Soren

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Re: 'practical' steps towards monoculturalism?
Reply #52 - Oct 6^th, 2008 at 8:42pm

tallowood wrote on Oct 6^th, 2008 at 8:05pm:

Soren wrote on Oct 6^th, 2008 at 7:47pm:

...
-some cultures, such as the Britannic heritage in Australia, is more civilised than most if not all other cultures valorised under the doctrine or policy or piety of multiculturalism
...

Isn’t multiculturalism part of Britannic culture with all them Celtic, Roman, Germanic and what not components? Then there are two conclusions to be made: 1 Britannic culture is not as good as you say it is or multiculturalism is not as bad as you say it is.

Or we couldd say that the Britannic culture was able to pull them all together, take what was best in each for the promotion and eenhancement of civilisation, which is what I would say.

Quote:

Just in case it was missed I repeat: “As for "practical steps towards monoculturalism" cancelling dual citizenships would help.”

If that's what people want, that could be a practical step.
My view is that the only thing really worth saving is civilisation. Some cultures favour it or embody it to a greater degree than others (none are perect, of course). Australia has inherited a great deal of civilisational values from Britain and has built on it and is rightly proud to be one of the very few of truly civilised countries in the world.

The Germans wanted monoculture - is it only me who is sensitive to this?

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freediver

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Re: 'practical' steps towards monoculturalism?
Reply #53 - Oct 6^th, 2008 at 10:17pm

One can immediately tell that Australia wa not colonised by Belgium, for example. Or the ottomans. Or the Javanese.

So you can tell it is there, but what makes you think it is more civilised?

That is not a British tradition as you well know it and not even a clever quip.

So they didn't go round beating up chinese miners in the mining camps?

Britain has its tradition of equality before the law and has taken it seriously.

Now that they can afford to they do. They didn't take it seriously 200 years ago. If you were poor - off to Australia with you.

It was the driving force behind the abolishing of slavery.

That they do deserve some credit for.

The equality of cultures.

Multiculturalism does not hinge on equality of cultures, but on personal freedom. That is, you can practice your culture, even if it is some useless baggage from England, like insisting on eating apples instead of tropical fruit even though you live in Darwin. People are free to decide whether to practice that culture, but the government isn't going to tell them what sort of facial adornments are allowed.

In other words, our everyday practice of telling the difference between good and bad things in our personal lives and dealings should not apply to other people's cultures because their feeling might get hurt.

When has it ever stopped you criticising what others do?

Or we couldd say that the Britannic culture was able to pull them all together, take what was best in each for the promotion and eenhancement of civilisation, which is what I would say.

So you think it is parasitic of other cultures? It wasn't enough just to takle their natural resources?

The Germans wanted monoculture - is it only me who is sensitive to this?

Yes, that's why I started this thread. To point out that there are no acceptable steps towards monoculturalism.

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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: 'practical' steps towards monoculturalism? Reply #54 - Oct 6^th, 2008 at 10:37pm So we agree on monoculture not beeing the answer. I say civilisation, you say multiculturalism. I suggest that Ockham's razor is a good rule of thumb here - civiisation is a simpler, clearer principle than multiculturalism.
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 53257 At my desk.	Re: 'practical' steps towards monoculturalism? Reply #55 - Oct 6^th, 2008 at 10:40pm While I agree in part about multicultuiralism - I think it was just a trick to stop bogans beating up ethnics - I don't think civilisation makes it any clearer. I'm still not sure what you mean by the term. You make it sound so anglocentric.
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Soren

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Re: 'practical' steps towards monoculturalism?
Reply #56 - Oct 6^th, 2008 at 11:18pm

Terms like anglocentric or eurocentric are seething with resentment.

I am not afraid to acknowledge my valuable inheritance. This inheritance also enables me to put it to the test of civilisation - the human projct that arches from Greece and Rome to Australia. Britain has done more than most to keep civilisation alive and viable. Europe has done much also but significant cultures in Europe are tainted with bouts of barbarism, much more than Britain (or Denmark, a much smaller but honourable player).

My quip about Belgium shows how much difference there is between neighbours, even. It would be a poor show not to acknowledge and salute the achievemnets of Britain and the effects of those achievements on Australia and our personal lives today.
Australia is no longer a trasnplanted Britain but it would be shortsighted and churlish to deny its genes and upbringing, if you like. I was in England last year and was heard remarking on how like Australia it is (on a wintry day).
I love Australia and I love England and I recognise one in the other.
And I have chosen them, I was not born into either. I am not a nationalist or a schauvinist.
You should not be afraid of being called 'anglocentric' just because you might properly recognise Britan's quite disproportionate contribution to civilisation.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 53257 At my desk.	Re: 'practical' steps towards monoculturalism? Reply #57 - Oct 6^th, 2008 at 11:46pm So why do I get the impression you are equating the importance of meat pies and the French revolution?
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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: 'practical' steps towards monoculturalism? Reply #58 - Oct 6^th, 2008 at 11:54pm Beats me.
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tallowood

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Re: 'practical' steps towards monoculturalism?
Reply #59 - Oct 7^th, 2008 at 12:05pm

Soren wrote on Oct 6^th, 2008 at 8:42pm:

tallowood wrote on Oct 6^th, 2008 at 8:05pm:

...
Isn’t multiculturalism part of Britannic culture with all them Celtic, Roman, Germanic and what not components? Then there are two conclusions to be made: 1 Britannic culture is not as good as you say it is or multiculturalism is not as bad as you say it is.

Or we couldd say that the Britannic culture was able to pull them all together, take what was best in each for the promotion and eenhancement of civilisation, which is what I would say.

That is like putting a cart in front of a horse, possible but not effective or practical

Soren wrote on Oct 6^th, 2008 at 8:42pm:

Quote:

Just in case it was missed I repeat: “As for "practical steps towards monoculturalism" cancelling dual citizenships would help.”

If that's what people want, that could be a practical step.
...

So it is with multiculturalism as a way of civilisation.

Soren wrote on Oct 6^th, 2008 at 8:42pm:

The Germans wanted monoculture - is it only me who is sensitive to this?

Not only Germans but also all flavours of skinheads.

Actually there is a theory that a civilisations flourish there where is interaction of different cultures.

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