Australian Politics Forum

freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 53218 At my desk.	Re: GAY MARRIAGE Reply #75 - Oct 21^st, 2008 at 12:07pm If homos want to reconstruct marriage they need to argue it on a basis other than sex. Isn't that exactly what they are doing? They need to argue that homo marriage is an improvement for the whole society, not just the convenience of dead-end homo relationships. No they don't.
Back to top	People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words. IP Logged

Kytro

Gold Member

Offline

Blasphemy: a victimless
crime

Posts: 3409
Adelaide
Gender: male

Re: GAY MARRIAGE
Reply #76 - Oct 21^st, 2008 at 1:38pm

Soren wrote on Oct 21^st, 2008 at 11:41am:

Correct, as far as the social side is concerned. Marriage is not biological.

Absolutely so. Biology isn't restricted by human constructs.

Soren wrote on Oct 21^st, 2008 at 11:41am:

If homos want to reconstruct marriage they need to argue it on a basis other than sex. They also need to argue beyond individual rights.
They need to argue that homo marriage is an improvement for the whole society, not just the convenience of dead-end homo relationships.

I don't think they need to prove it will enhance society, just that it will not cause harm. I cannot see any major problems presented.

Soren wrote on Oct 21^st, 2008 at 11:41am:

Just a word of caution though - the talk of 'social construct' is a mental trap hard to climb out of once snared in. Marriage is not a social construct in your sense, because that assumes but leaves unstated who actually did the constructing. ANd if people think they are only married because some Roma aristo needed an alliance with a neighbouring empire - you try looking into your wife's eyes and tell her that. And your children's eyes and tell them that they are only the fruit of the hollow remnant of some archaic barter ritual.

It is just a construct, love and relationships do not require marriage, it is a social statement to that effect. I think this is what homosexuals are looking for, a social statement (and associated legal contexts).

Back to top

IP Logged

freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 53218 At my desk.	Re: GAY MARRIAGE Reply #77 - Oct 21^st, 2008 at 2:03pm I think it is more the legal side that is the issue. It's about equal rights under the law.
Back to top	People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words. IP Logged

Soren

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 25654
Gender: male

Re: GAY MARRIAGE
Reply #78 - Oct 22^nd, 2008 at 7:44pm

[quote author=Kytro link=1184494423/75#76 date=1224560294 It is just a construct, love and relationships do not require marriage, it is a social statement to that effect. I think this is what homosexuals are looking for, a social statement (and associated legal contexts).

[/quote]

Is there anything that is human that is not " just a construct"?
Isn't the idea that homos should get married , then, "just a construct"?
How do you decide between two "just a constructs"? Whatever basis you nominate - isn't that also "just a construct"? Law, relationship, love, personal liberty, etc.

How do you decide?

Back to top

IP Logged

muso

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 13151
Gladstone, Queensland
Gender: male

Re: GAY MARRIAGE
Reply #79 - Oct 22^nd, 2008 at 9:09pm

Legislation should adapt to societal norms. There are already gay unions - probably thousands of them - does anybody know how many?

Marriage is not just about having kids or the biological aspect of it. It goes a lot further than sex or procreation. In fact many married couples these days choose not to have kids.

The marriage ceremony is a public declaration of love and life-long commitment between two people and the acceptance and celebration by society of their union. Marriage is a very special thing. I've been happily married for 25 years this year. There is a lot of give and take involved for it to last that long.

Why should we deprive two people of that experience just because they are of the same sex?

Back to top

1523 people like this. The remaining 7,134,765,234 do not

IP Logged

freediver

Gold Member

Online

www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 53218
At my desk.

Re: GAY MARRIAGE
Reply #80 - Oct 22^nd, 2008 at 9:24pm

Soren wrote on Oct 22^nd, 2008 at 7:44pm:

[quote author=Kytro link=1184494423/75#76 date=1224560294 It is just a construct, love and relationships do not require marriage, it is a social statement to that effect. I think this is what homosexuals are looking for, a social statement (and associated legal contexts).

Is there anything that is human that is not " just a construct"?
Isn't the idea that homos should get married , then, "just a construct"?
How do you decide between two "just a constructs"? Whatever basis you nominate - isn't that also "just a construct"? Law, relationship, love, personal liberty, etc.

How do you decide? [/quote]

Equal rights before the law is a human construct. Do you support it?

Back to top

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

IP Logged

Me New Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 7	Re: GAY MARRIAGE Reply #81 - Oct 22^nd, 2008 at 11:45pm This homosexuals are a bigger problem to the society then this mozlemz are.
Back to top	IP Logged

Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 41847 Gender:	Re: GAY MARRIAGE Reply #82 - Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 1:18am muso - homos dont need to be married to be in a long term relationship or have a bit of "give and take" they can declare their feelings publically in a civil ceremony, or a banner outside their house.
Back to top	Modern Classic Right Wing IP Logged

queer Full Member Offline Socialism is the answer! Posts: 117 SA Gender:	Re: GAY MARRIAGE Reply #83 - Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 7:14am Me wrote on Oct 22^nd, 2008 at 11:45pm: This homosexuals are a bigger problem to the society then this mozlemz are. And bad spellers should be sterilized!
Back to top	IP Logged

Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: GAY MARRIAGE Reply #84 - Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 7:18am queer wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 7:14am: Me wrote on Oct 22^nd, 2008 at 11:45pm: This homosexuals are a bigger problem to the society then this mozlemz are. And bad spellers should be sterilized! Bad spellerz of the world - untie!
Back to top	IP Logged

muso

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 13151
Gladstone, Queensland
Gender: male

Re: GAY MARRIAGE
Reply #85 - Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 9:04am

Sprintcyclist wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 1:18am:

muso - homos dont need to be married to be in a long term relationship or have a bit of "give and take"

they can declare their feelings publically in a civil ceremony, or a banner outside their house.

LOL I didn't realise the double entendre (give and take) when I posted it.

The question is - what's the big issue with using the M word to describe their relationship? It is not owned exclusively by religions.

Is there a civil ceremony that they can go through already?

Back to top

1523 people like this. The remaining 7,134,765,234 do not

IP Logged

freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 53218 At my desk.	Re: GAY MARRIAGE Reply #86 - Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 9:09am They can have any sort of ceremony they want.
Back to top	People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words. IP Logged

Kytro

Gold Member

Offline

Blasphemy: a victimless
crime

Posts: 3409
Adelaide
Gender: male

Re: GAY MARRIAGE
Reply #87 - Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 10:38am

Soren wrote on Oct 22^nd, 2008 at 7:44pm:

Is there anything that is human that is not " just a construct"?

Well, yes. There are. Instinct, emotion for example.

Soren wrote on Oct 22^nd, 2008 at 7:44pm:

Isn't the idea that homos should get married , then, "just a construct"?

Indeed it is.

Soren wrote on Oct 22^nd, 2008 at 7:44pm:

How do you decide between two "just a constructs"? Whatever basis you nominate - isn't that also "just a construct"? Law, relationship, love, personal liberty, etc.

Obviously a decision made based on any number of reasons.

Soren wrote on Oct 22^nd, 2008 at 7:44pm:

How do you decide?

Hopefully by applying reason. The decision to allows gays to marry would be recognising the decision that previously prohibited them was based on a different social rules.

Back to top

IP Logged

muso

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 13151
Gladstone, Queensland
Gender: male

Re: GAY MARRIAGE
Reply #88 - Oct 24^th, 2008 at 2:34pm

freediver wrote on Oct 22^nd, 2008 at 9:24pm:

Equal rights before the law is a human construct. Do you support it?

What do you mean by equal rights in this case? Obviously it's important. Can you please expand on this point? It's obviously about making sure that everybody gets treated equitably - isn't it?

What entitlements are we actually discussing here? - and isn't it a double edged sword? Rights = obligations.

For example if the wife buys a hat, the husband is legally obliged to pick up the bill even though he knows nothing about it - isn't that right? (that's what I was told)

How would it work for same sex partners?

Back to top

1523 people like this. The remaining 7,134,765,234 do not

IP Logged

freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 53218 At my desk.	Re: GAY MARRIAGE Reply #89 - Oct 24^th, 2008 at 2:41pm Things like access to superannuation, recognition of legal guardianship, next of kin etc - all the legal rights that married couples currently get access to. No idea about the hat thing.
Back to top	People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words. IP Logged

Poll
Question: Do you support gay marriage in Australia?
Yes No No, but I support some form of legal recognition « Last Modified by: Progs on: Jul 15^th, 2007 at 8:16pm »