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Poll Poll
Question: Is John Howard's Aboriginal move an election ploy?

Yes    
  6 (66.7%)
No    
  3 (33.3%)
Undecided    
  0 (0.0%)




Total votes: 9
« Created by: ex-member DonaldTrump on: Jun 27th, 2007 at 1:52pm »

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Howard's election ploy? [NT GROG LAWS] (Read 49247 times)
oceanz
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Re: Howard's election ploy?
Reply #15 - Jun 28th, 2007 at 1:10pm
 

I think that his tenure so far shows exactly the opposite as well as highlights the fact that Labor over the last 10+ years has been the most dysfunctional opposition in the history of Australian politics...and that's something that doesn't look like changing.   


mantra, IQs statement was a "no brainer"and thats how she likes it..nuff said!!! Smiley

Anyone could see the oppostion has offered up no real alternative ..the only reason Libs keep getting back in. Go figure!
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IQSRLOW
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Re: Howard's election ploy?
Reply #16 - Jun 28th, 2007 at 1:35pm
 
The section in quotes above indicates exactly why Howard has stayed in power so long.

It also indicates that the incumbent govt has been doing things right, formulating the correct policies and generally pipping the opposition at every post...yet you consider the dysfunctional mish mash of opposing parties as a viable alternative?

oceanz wrote on Jun 28th, 2007 at 1:10pm:
Blah, blah, blah...I have nothing of value to add to anything except putting the sick back into sycophant

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freediver
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Re: Howard's election ploy?
Reply #17 - Jun 28th, 2007 at 1:37pm
 
Generally, a poor opposition party also leads to a poor government. It is competition that keeps poilitical parties on their toes.
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cautious connie
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Re: Howard's election ploy?
Reply #18 - Jun 29th, 2007 at 8:12am
 
I think it is undoubtedly an election ploy, trying to drive a race based wedge between Labor and the Libs. I hope it fails.  I suspect Rudd is not without his own political "cleverness"
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ex-member DonaldTrump
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Re: Howard's election ploy?
Reply #19 - Jun 30th, 2007 at 3:11am
 
cautious connie wrote on Jun 29th, 2007 at 8:12am:
I think it is undoubtedly an election ploy, trying to drive a race based wedge between Labor and the Libs. I hope it fails.  I suspect Rudd is not without his own political "cleverness"


Well... whilst I support Howard's move... I think it will be short-lived.

Rudd is more clever than a lot of people think. If anyones gonna beat Howard.. it's Rudd.
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cautious connie
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Re: Howard's election ploy?
Reply #20 - Jun 30th, 2007 at 7:45am
 
Do you "know" or have reason for saying that about Rudd or just have that feeling like I do from watching an interview with him?

I have doubts about the exact methodology for helping the abused kids in those communities. I don't even think I have seen it fully written up anywhere.

However there is already legislation that deals with child  abuse and it should  be enacted. If the federal government puts in additional funds to make sure it could be perhaps that would be sufficent. To use the oportunity to assume extra control over people and erode the rights of welfare recipients is not the answer. It is not becasue they are welfare recipients that these child abusers are criminal- it is because they are child-abusers.
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Re: Howard's election ploy?
Reply #21 - Jun 30th, 2007 at 2:10pm
 
Rudd is a flake. His past history has shown that. He stopped a dam being built in QLD years ago, saying "we will never have a drought.".
he has lost his honeymoon with the media and now is in freefall.
Good riddance to the danger of a smirking self serving porky shadow.


making kids go to school and banning alcohol from camps is a good start to helping aboriginals.
These people are getting drunk all day on my taxes then preying on kids.
If you want to oppose actions to taken to cease that behaviour, up to you.
My kids go to school and sleep safely.  many others do not.

If the kids were going to school regularily they have the wild possibility of escaping poverty.
They might stop sniffing petrol and might live past 42 years old. 
If kids are being abused and uneducated even though they are given the money to, it is up to us to try something else.  maybe 1/2 the welfare in food. 1/2 in cash.
There is nothing to spend it on there anyway.

Sexual abuse is the most damaging crime. It haunts the victims for decades later.
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cautious connie
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Re: Howard's election ploy?
Reply #22 - Jun 30th, 2007 at 9:28pm
 
Do you think banning alcohol will mean it will nto be obtained or made? Do you think cutting welfare payments to those parents whose kids do not attaend school will help anyone? In an environment where adults cannot be trusted nto to abuse children, maybe it is the independent kids who think for themselves or the troubled ones who have been abused that stay away from school. What if the father abuser now has a golden reason to spend time with his young lad taking him to school and "waiting" to make sure he goes in?

These rules sound sensible but are they unrealistic? I knew a country school once where a large proportion of the kids bussed into town on the school bus, got off at school and immediately wandered in to town and missed school. Some of those kids were brought to school by mum, then left as soon as she did. Is alcohol that is bought on the blackmarket or distilled locally any better for the people who drink it or the children who are abused?  Is a mother trying to protect kids from abuse any better off and more able to do so becasue half her welfare payment is gone?

If the law is enough protection for white families then it is also enough protection for aboriginal families. If it happens that there is child abuse going on then the criminals should be arrested and the children's situation and best interest investigated  - white or black.
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Re: Howard's election ploy?
Reply #23 - Jun 30th, 2007 at 9:41pm
 
Well said Connie - I agree.  The tough new measures will help very little.  The law enforcement may initially see some results - but cutting welfare in half and providing coupons will still lead to corruption and definitely not help a mother raise her children at a higher standard.  Now that the permit system is to be abolished there will be no reason why peddlars of alcohol, drugs and petrol will not be bartering with the remainder of their cash.

There are too few schools nearby in many remote settlements and a shortage of teachers.  Health & welfare services have been crying out for help for years - but there has been no-one listening.

I find it difficult to imagine Howard suddenly coming up with all these social workers, doctors nurses and teachers to help these people get back on their feet.

What the government and the mining companies are doing though is taking control of their land - building modest homes on a plot of land and leasing it back to them for 99 years.  As far as the rest of the native title land goes - well that is up for grabs to the highest bidders - and it won't be our indigenous people.
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Re: Howard's election ploy?
Reply #24 - Jun 30th, 2007 at 10:31pm
 
You'd be far happier with the status quo would you Mantra...? It's really all one big land grab conspiracy theory...?

The situation that some of the indigenousness population are in lies purely at the feet of State Govts...Labor govts. The leftists who have traditionally held the reins on these issues have taken us down the wrong path with a softly-softly approach and it hasn't worked despite the exceptionally large sums of money already thrown at it, frittered away through a typical Labor bureaucracy. ATSIC was another failure of the left 

Bout time someone stood up and had some gonads. It certainly wasn't going to be the left.
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oceanz
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Re: Howard's election ploy?
Reply #25 - Jun 30th, 2007 at 11:20pm
 
mantra wrote on Jun 30th, 2007 at 9:41pm:
Well said Connie - I agree.  The tough new measures will help very little.  The law enforcement may initially see some results - but cutting welfare in half and providing coupons will still lead to corruption and definitely not help a mother raise her children at a higher standard.  Now that the permit system is to be abolished there will be no reason why peddlars of alcohol, drugs and petrol will not be bartering with the remainder of their cash.

There are too few schools nearby in many remote settlements and a shortage of teachers.  Health & welfare services have been crying out for help for years - but there has been no-one listening.

I find it difficult to imagine Howard suddenly coming up with all these social workers, doctors nurses and teachers to help these people get back on their feet.

What the government and the mining companies are doing though is taking control of their land - building modest homes on a plot of land and leasing it back to them for 99 years.  As far as the rest of the native title land goes - well that is up for grabs to the highest bidders - and it won't be our indigenous people.



This is whole exercise is a disgusting ploy to boost his election chances.


There never was any serious intent on behalf of Howard to address this problem .

As you say Mantra there are scarce resources out there ie the Social Service workforce, so yes where will he come up with all these skilled and needed pple at such short notice? the short answer is , he cant and wont find them..they simply aren't there. There is National shortage of Social Workers and nurses have been scarce for years. He hasnt supported the training and skills shortage you see.

Cutting welfare payments will not work..it is forcing a mentality of compulsion upon a minority pple already controlled and compellled to the endth degree for the longest time. It hasnt worked in the past and will only work for as long as the 'presence' ie Police etc are there to enforce it. And the Police simply arent that plentiful .

The banning of alcohol will only bring out the opportunists who will supply grog and weed to them..they ,who sell weed to communties , Aborigines and children  are theyre main customers.

They , the whites,arrive at the Ind camps on payday and most of theyre pay goes on weed and grog.





As for sexual abuse..young Ind girls will trade sex for a cigerrette,  a beer weed, petrol etc, you name theres nothing they cant buy with sex.Mainly oral for the taxidriver who deliver theirr weed or grog.These are white men who receive these sexual favours from children and young girls. They are abused by black and white pple.

The Police know and in a large number of cases are involved in the illegal drug trade and receiving payments from dope growers for turning a blind eye.

Howard has absolutely no idea what he's dealing with.He wants to make a quick name for himself  at the expense of Ind. pple.

The children are, a lot of them sold into prostitution by parents to secure mainly grog for parents or whoever...Children out here are raped and noone reports it in the newspapers or media, its only Aboriginal children-who cares? They are left with stds and the side effects of abuse. It is not a one off thing it is repeated.



Forcing children to go to school..will work for as long as someone is there to Police the situation.

Out here in this community , kids get to the school gate and turn around walk right out., wagging for the day again..Ind kids wander the streets all day and we all know they should be at school. Schools arent equipped to meet theyre needs anyway.And they experience a high degree of rascism from kids and teachers.

The Government has neglected to take a systematic and sincere approach to this problem.. The police cannot cure a Social illness..these problems are Social..how can the Army and the Police and a huge dose of intimidation and fear cure the problems of the psyche? The built up poison of 200 yrs of the depths of depression, deprivation, loss of human rights  and lack of recognition as a pple and the right to have a job and build a future for themselves without the institutionalisation of every aspect of theyre lives , leftover from a system that stems from the the 1700s,?

Welfare legislation is only just being reworked and Ind pple are certainly no better off under the new legislation , from what Ive seen as they were previously., in some cases its worse. More compulsion and punishments.

Its a joke. It will further marginalise and hurt Ind pple and the biggest hurt of all will be the humiliation of being Nationally held up for villification as a disgraced pple by a Government who has absolutely no idea what they need or how to go about it.

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« Last Edit: Jun 30th, 2007 at 11:29pm by oceanz »  

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Re: Howard's election ploy?
Reply #26 - Jun 30th, 2007 at 11:48pm
 
Doctors, nurses, teachers, social workers, blah, blah, blah all the responsibility of State Govts... Labor state govts for the majority. They have failed. The socialists have shown they have no idea on how to fix problems.

The left is vehemently rejecting these measures because accepting them means confirmation of the failure of their ideology. It's sad that they put children at a distant second place.
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oceanz
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Re: Howard's election ploy?
Reply #27 - Jul 1st, 2007 at 1:06am
 
IQSRLOW wrote on Jun 30th, 2007 at 11:48pm:
Doctors, nurses, teachers, social workers, blah, blah, blah all the responsibility of State Govts... Labor state govts for the majority. They have failed. The socialists have shown they have no idea on how to fix problems.

The left is vehemently rejecting these measures because accepting them means confirmation of the failure of their ideology. It's sad that they put children at a distant second place.



The left is vehemently rejecting these measures because accepting them means confirmation of the failure of their ideology. It's sad that they put children at a distant second place

empty.
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cautious connie
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Re: Howard's election ploy?
Reply #28 - Jul 1st, 2007 at 7:33am
 


IQ, it does not make sense to blame the states for making medical education undesirably expensive when it is the federal government who has controlled increases in HECS.  The federal government has members whom have quite frequently expressed negative sentiment about the unemployed, and the cultural attitude the government encourages to the unemployed by its policies is one of disdain and disapproval, similarly with aboriginal people. As for teachers, the federal government is trying to place more and more restrictions on what can be taught and must be taught and how, and how both at tertiary and secondary level, and is providing more and more of its funding to private schools, so is clearly making the work environment less desirable.  When it is all about performance and not at all about conditions to create it then workers do not choose that profession or to stay in it.  That is what the Liberals fail to understand with their education, training, labour and industrial policies.
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Re: Howard's election ploy?
Reply #29 - Jul 1st, 2007 at 9:15am
 
correct connie..

and simply making predictable noises about the failure of the left, a bit of meat in your comments IQ  would be a nice change.

The Liberals have been undermining the success of education in Australia since its inception or re election, as it has with every Human Resource area for the last 10 yrs.

This is why there is a national shortage of Nurses, Doctors, Teachers and Social Workers.

Howard has little concern for the Social Welfare of this country as a whole., including the Ind pple. It is showing up now just how under resourced we are when it comes to a' crisis'.

Simply saying its a lefty mentality is too simplistic and predictable.

It has been demonstrated that the fact that Howard chose to over ride state jurisdiction in the Nthn Territory would tell us all that it IS a Federal responsibility when we cut to the chase.




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