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ISRAEL/PALESTINE (Read 86122 times)
Gavin
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Re: hamas and fatah
Reply #90 - Jun 18th, 2007 at 12:25pm
 
Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 18th, 2007 at 12:19pm:
gavin

"The so-called quartet of international mediators for Middle East peace - the US, EU, UN and Russia - have offered their "full support" to Abbas.

Chief Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erakat, in an interview with CNN, said he was saddened by the Hamas ransacking of the Palestinian president's Gaza City residence and trampling of portraits of the late leader Yasser Arafat."

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/abbas-swears-in-new-cabinet/2007/06/18/1182018966292.html?page=2

Their policy is, they will murder us.  Get it ?


the US, EU, UN and Russia aren't the Palestinan people, so their backing of Abbas is irrelevant. The Palestinans voted for Hamas - their policies and how they relate to Israel is irrelevant.

the Palestinans voted for Hamas, so Hamas has a right to govern since they were elected by the people.
Fatah had their chance in the election, they lost. 

get it??
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Sprintcyclist
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Re: hamas and fatah
Reply #91 - Jun 18th, 2007 at 1:46pm
 
So, the US, EU, UN and Russia are totally against murderous terrorists.
But by gavins sayso, it is ok ?   No, that part I don't get

What part about "murder" don't you get ?

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Gavin
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Re: hamas and fatah
Reply #92 - Jun 18th, 2007 at 1:51pm
 
Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 18th, 2007 at 1:46pm:
So, the US, EU, UN and Russia are totally against murderous terrorists.
But by gavins sayso, it is ok ?   No, that part I don't get

What part about "murder" don't you get ?



what part of democracy do u not understand.

i will break this down for you:

democracy = the people of a country are allowed to elect their government, the elected parties policies are irrelevant, other countries opinions are irrelevant. 

lets give u an example, assume One Nation got elected in the Australian election - and let's say for the sake of argument, Indonesia disagrees with One Nation's policies and sees them as a threat. does that mean Indonesia has a right to tell the Australian public who to vote for??

no, it doesn't concern them, same thing in this situation - the Palestinans elected Hamas who won the election fair & square. the election doesn't concern the US, EU, Russia, etc.

what's the point of instilling democracy in the Middle East if we're going to reject it when a party we don't like get's elected? why don't we just put in a puppet government and ignore what the people actually want.
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Sprintcyclist
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Re: hamas and fatah
Reply #93 - Jun 18th, 2007 at 2:34pm
 
repeated question third time

What part about murder don't you understand ? Or won't answer ?
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Gavin
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Re: hamas and fatah
Reply #94 - Jun 18th, 2007 at 2:39pm
 
Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 18th, 2007 at 2:34pm:
repeated question third time

What part about murder don't you understand ? Or won't answer ?


i already answered, whether Hamas are murders and whether their policies are murderous is irrelevant. put it this way, is it okay to overturn an election result because u don't agree with the elected parties policies?

no, of course not - they got elected by the Palestinans and therefore they have a right to govern.
why is that such a hard concept for you to understand?

democracy is being elected by the people.
u can't just pick democracy when parties u like are elected and reject it when a party u don't like get's elected.
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« Last Edit: Jun 18th, 2007 at 2:54pm by Gavin »  
 
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Sprintcyclist
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Re: hamas and fatah
Reply #95 - Jun 18th, 2007 at 2:57pm
 
According to you gavin, the following behaviour is fine as long as taliban were elected ??


By Sardar Ahmad in Kabul
June 17, 2007 10:53pm

IN the deadliest attack in Afghanistan since the Taliban regime was toppled six years ago, a suicide bomber has killed 35 people and wounded dozens in Kabul.

Most of the dead were instructors going to work at the city's police academy. Bystanders and five foreigners were also killed, according to police.

President Hamid Karzai condemned the attack and said the country would continue to work towards reconstruction despite attacks from the "enemies of Afghanistan".

The Taliban claimed responsibility for the blast, which reduced a police bus to a skeleton of black metal. Body parts and human flesh were flung across a wide area.

"We have got 35 people martyred and 52 wounded," Kabul province police chief Esmatullah Dauladzai told news agency AFP.

"Those killed include mostly officers and civilians."

Among the wounded were two Japanese, a Korean and two Pakistani nationals, he said. The injuries could not be immediately confirmed by the relevant embassies.

"It is the work of terrorists, al-Qaeda and murderers of the people," said the city's criminal investigation department chief Alishah Paktiawal.

Mr Dauladzai said investigations indicated the bombing was carried out by an individual wearing black clothes who was aboard the police bus.

Claiming responsibility, the Taliban said the attacker had infiltrated the police on the orders of one of the group's most senior commanders, Jalaluddin Haqqani.

"Under his direct orders, today he strapped explosives on his body and exploded himself inside the police bus," spokesman Saluhuddin Ayobi said.

There had been rumours that Haqqani, who was a minister in the 1996-2001 Taliban government, had died, but Ayobi said he was "alive and leading the jihad (holy war) against the US forces and the puppet Kabul Government".

The sirens of ambulances wailed across the city as the wounded were ferried to hospitals. 24 people were hospitalised, health ministry director general Salam Jalali said.

The blast took place in a crowded part of the city centre. Two nearby minibuses were damaged and witnesses said bystanders may also have been hit."


Of course the murderous dominant policy is relevanbt. Their policy is if they live, freedom won't.
In my views, if the elected party will murder me, I will oppose them immediately.
Why is that such a hard comcept for you to grasp ?


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Gavin
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Re: hamas and fatah
Reply #96 - Jun 18th, 2007 at 2:58pm
 
Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 18th, 2007 at 2:57pm:
According to you gavin, the following behaviour is fine as long as taliban were elected ??


well, the Taliban weren't democratically elected, but if they were then people get what they elected for.
put it this way, i was against the introduction of the GST, but since the Liberals got elected, i'm stuck with it. u don't see me saying we need to overthrow the Liberals because i don't like them and their GST.

and if the Taliban were democratically elected by Afghanistan's population, what right do u have to tell them that they are wrong and the Taliban aren't a legitimate government? it's not ur country, so u shouldn't butt in.
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Re: hamas and fatah
Reply #97 - Jun 18th, 2007 at 3:13pm
 

Quote:
Another good example is this... once in a lecture... the lecturer asked all marxists to raise their hands...

One student raised their hand.  Tongue


Was he beaten senseless?
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Sprintcyclist
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Re: hamas and fatah
Reply #98 - Jun 18th, 2007 at 3:39pm
 
gavin - there is a significant difference between a GST and having your throat cut.

if any govt has a policy to murder those in other countries and oppress freedom then yes, it IS our responsibility to protect ourselves and others.

Why do you support islam so ardently ?
Is it just to be antagonistic, or are you a muslim ?
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Gavin
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Re: hamas and fatah
Reply #99 - Jun 18th, 2007 at 3:54pm
 
Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 18th, 2007 at 3:39pm:
gavin - there is a significant difference between a GST and having your throat cut.


the point i was making was that ur stuck with the policies of the government that gets elected in a democratic election. i was using the GST as an example.

Quote:
if any govt has a policy to murder those in other countries and oppress freedom then yes, it IS our responsibility to protect ourselves and others.


yes, protect ourselves by building up our defences, but we shouldn't go around saying that the government doesn't have a right to exist and it should be overthrown.

doing that is denying the Palestinans right to be governed by the goverment they elected.  

Quote:
Why do you support islam so ardently ?
Is it just to be antagonistic, or are you a muslim ?


i'm not defending islam, i'm defending democracy - democracy is about being governed by the party that is elected by the people.

i wouldn't like other countries to tell me who to vote for as it's not their country and it doesn't concern them. similiarily i think other countries should butt out when it comes to the Palestinan elections, the Palestinan people voted for Hamas in a democratic election, so Hamas should be allowed to rule.

it's amazing that ur so pro-democracy, but at the same time u want to deny the Palestinans the right to be governed by the party they elected in a democratic election. that is hypocritical.
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ex-member DonaldTrump
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Re: hamas and fatah
Reply #100 - Jun 18th, 2007 at 6:34pm
 
Ausnat wrote on Jun 18th, 2007 at 3:13pm:
Quote:
Another good example is this... once in a lecture... the lecturer asked all marxists to raise their hands...

One student raised their hand.  Tongue


Was he beaten senseless?


The teacher or student?  Grin

Nah... the student was a girl.
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Re: hamas and fatah
Reply #101 - Jun 18th, 2007 at 6:36pm
 

Quote:
The teacher or student?  Grin

Nah... the student was a girl.



Damn Angry
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Total anti-marxist and anti-left wing. The Right is Right.&&&&&&
 
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ex-member DonaldTrump
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Re: hamas and fatah
Reply #102 - Jun 18th, 2007 at 6:38pm
 
I'm usually your ally in most aguments sprint, but the reality of the situation is that if 'true' democracy is applied in most Muslim nations... an extremist party will win the election.

I agree with Gavin in this case.


He's not saying Islam is good or bad or anything like that. He's just saying that in democracy, any party can enrol for election.... even if they are a bunch of fanatical worms... and if they get elected... tough. That's the reality of democracy... and that's what you get when you let muslims do the thinking... everything turns to sh1t. The midas touch.
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Re: hamas and fatah
Reply #103 - Jun 18th, 2007 at 6:39pm
 
Ausnat wrote on Jun 18th, 2007 at 6:36pm:
Quote:
The teacher or student?  Grin

Nah... the student was a girl.



Damn Angry


I know.. tragic.  Tongue


Uni students are too gay to attack anyone anyway. Too politically incorrect.
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AusNat
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Re: hamas and fatah
Reply #104 - Jun 18th, 2007 at 6:42pm
 
Quote:
I know.. tragic.  Tongue


Uni students are too gay to attack anyone anyway. Too politically incorrect.


True. some tradies or skinheads would have done nicely Cool (female ones)

Or bring over Russian Nationalists Grin They are very ''active''
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