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ISRAEL/PALESTINE (Read 86257 times)
abu_rashid
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Re: ISRAEL/PALESTINE
Reply #585 - Nov 12th, 2010 at 7:13am
 
Soren,

Quote:
It is stupid in the extreme to argue that whatever exists is moot and what really matters is only what no longer exists. Unsurprisingly, you make this very argument your own.


Right... good thing I didn't argue that.

Do you even read what's written? Or do you just go off in your own little tangent hoping you'll drag the simpler people along with you and bypass the actual topic?

The point, to clarify, since it appears you don't wanna get it, is that your claim that the Palestinians never had a sovereign state is moot since the Zionist infiltration and population saturation began at the beginning of the modern nation-state era.

Quote:
The British Empire and the French Empire ruled over North Africa and the Middle East.  They cannot make a claim to those territoroes any more than the Arab/Muslim Empires before them. None of them exist.


The glaring difference being here that those were overseas "possessions", not the lands, homes, farms, livlihood of the people you're speaking about, unlike Palestine.

Do you, in all honesty (however hard that may be for you), believe there's an analogy to be made there?
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abu_rashid  
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Soren
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Re: ISRAEL/PALESTINE
Reply #586 - Nov 12th, 2010 at 8:13am
 
abu_rashid wrote on Nov 11th, 2010 at 9:20pm:
Your claims about sovereignity are moot, since you make them in the context of  a 'sovereign nation-state', a concept which has existed no more than about a century or two. Prior to that much of the world was divided up into empires... were the Arab/Muslims part of a soveriegn empire that ruled over what is claimed by the Zionists today? I think you know the answer to that is yes.





Today, the sovereign nation state is the onlly, ONLY context. Those empires are gone. They do not exist. They are no more.





Read that again, slowly. You say:
sovereignty in the context of the nation state is a recent development
before that, sovereignty rested ith empires
the Arab/Muslim empires ruled ovr the territory of today's israel.


To which my answer was:
Today,  national sovereignty is the only sovereigntyy. Basing arguments on the previous sovereignty of now defunct empires is stupid.
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chicken_lipsforme
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Re: ISRAEL/PALESTINE
Reply #587 - Nov 12th, 2010 at 9:44am
 
Soren wrote on Nov 11th, 2010 at 8:55pm:
abu_rashid wrote on Nov 11th, 2010 at 8:19pm:
Quote:
What other claim do the Pallos have to sovereignty in Israel? None.


Ummm... perhaps the fact it's their land which has been stolen from them?





The point is that there is no valid claim to sovereignty by 'palestinians'. In the sense of 'people who live in the area that is/was commonly called Palestine', jews are palestinians.

This is not the sense you or I or 'palestinians' used the term. Yet the 'palestinians' have no other claim than being people who have lived in the area that is/was called Palestine. That alone doesn't make them a sovereign people.


The same as those that have inhabited the Sahara Desert region for centuries.
They are not known as Saharans, but are part of region that forms part of Egypt.
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Dragoneyes
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Re: ISRAEL/PALESTINE
Reply #588 - Nov 12th, 2010 at 11:03am
 

the truth is that the argument should go back one step,and Israel needs to do this,and argue Palestinians deserve to pick an Arab country and move there..

there should be no claims for ''palestinians'' as they are nothing more than Arabs,and should go to Arab lands.

since Palestinians are not prepeared to accept Israel's right to exist,then Israel should do the same and argue that the Palestinians should move either to Lebanon or Jordan or Syria.

an accent does not make one a race.
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chicken_lipsforme
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Re: ISRAEL/PALESTINE
Reply #589 - Nov 12th, 2010 at 11:50am
 
Dragoneyes wrote on Nov 12th, 2010 at 11:03am:
the truth is that the argument should go back one step,and Israel needs to do this,and argue Palestinians deserve to pick an Arab country and move there..

there should be no claims for ''palestinians'' as they are nothing more than Arabs,and should go to Arab lands.

since Palestinians are not prepeared to accept Israel's right to exist,then Israel should do the same and argue that the Palestinians should move either to Lebanon or Jordan or Syria.

an accent does not make one a race.



Lebanon already has thousands of Palestinians locked up in refugee camps behind razor wire, along with that government having laws that heavily restrict Palestinian employment opportunities within Lebanon.
This has been going on for decades.

Jordan only last year made invalid all dual Jordanian / Palestinian passports, and only recently a Jordanian politician stated concern about the possibility and the ramifications of more Palestinians settling within Jordan should the current round of Israeli/Palestinian talks fail.
In short, they have enough of them and don't want any more because they don't want to lose their national identity as Jordanians.

Iraq deported thousands of Palestinians only in the last two years, Saudi Arabia treats Palestinian workers like low paid coolies, and Egypt would rather actively cooperate with the Israeli's than have anything more to do with Palestinians.

Syria and Iran are happy to send cash to fund Gaza terrorists, and whilst Palestinians are the only ones doing the dying whilst attacking Israel, they are happy to keep funding and supplying them with weapons.
But as for Palestinians settling in those two countries, I would suggest they wont have a bar of it as they have enough extremists within their borders.

The Palestinians are the lepers of the Arab world and none want a bar of them.

I read an old KKK saying years ago about what should a clan member do when coming across a mad savage dog in his own back yard, and the answer was not to shoot the dog, but to capture the dog and throw it in a n++gers yard.

I guess the analogy here is the Arab nations look apon the Palestinians the same way.
And whilst the Palestinians are geographically separated from the rest of the Arab world, and spending their time launching missiles into Israel killing Jews, then these other Arab nations are quite happy with this arrangement.
And after 43 years since the West Bank and Gaza were occupied , no Arab nation has come forward to offer their Palestinian brothers anything except more misery.

Their treatment of the Palestinians within their own borders has been nothing short of appalling.
Even the Israeli's treat them better.

And of course the Israeli's aren't interested in giving the Palestinians anything whilst Israel is under daily attack, and Hamas and others refuse to recognise Israel's right to exist and is sworn to it's destruction.
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"Another boat, another policy failure from the Howard government"

Julia Gillard
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2003.
 
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