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ISRAEL/PALESTINE (Read 86132 times)
freediver
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Re: ISRAEL/PALESTINE
Reply #435 - Jul 17th, 2008 at 11:00am
 
So you're either agreeing with terrorism, or you think Muslims shouldn't have the same rights that the US has.

You are creating a false dichotomy here Malik. You are no better then Bush with his 'with us or against us' rhetoric.

OPT: Number of children killed doubles

Malik, no-one is denying that Children get shot in these conflicts, but your insistance that Israelis shoot children in schools for sport is nothing more than an absurd fairytale to justify further violoence. The more you fuel the hatred, the more deaths there will be on both sides.
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Re: ISRAEL/PALESTINE
Reply #436 - Jul 18th, 2008 at 2:45pm
 


"Freed militants pledge to continue fight against Israel 
Page 1 of 2 View as a single page 10:28AM Friday July 18, 2008



BEIRUT, Lebanon - Five militants who were freed as part of a prisoner swap with Israel prayed Thursday at a slain Hezbollah military commander's grave, pledging to follow in his footsteps and continue fighting Israel.

Wearing military fatigues, the five men walked down a red carpet laid out for them outside Imad Mughniyeh's burial spot at a cemetery south of Beirut.

They laid wreaths and gave a military salute as supporters showered them with rice.

Mughniyeh, a shadowy figure Israel and the West accuse of masterminding terrorist bombings in the 1980s and 1990s, was killed in a car bomb in neighboring Syria in February.

Hezbollah and its supporters regard him as a hero of almost mythical stature. The militant group dubbed Wednesday's prisoner exchange "Operation Radwan" in reference to Mughniyeh's nom de guerre, Hajj Radwan.

"We swear by God ... to continue on your same path and not to retreat until we achieve the same stature that God bestowed on you," said Samir Kantar, who had been the longest-held Lebanese prisoner in Israel. He had been convicted of murder in a 1979 attack that left an Israeli policeman, a father and his two children dead.

Kantar referred to Mughniyeh's "martyrdom," saying, "This is our great wish. We envy you and we will achieve it, God willing."

A member of the Druse minority sect, Kantar and four Shiite Muslim guerrillas were freed in exchange for the bodies of two Israeli soldiers captured by Hezbollah at the onset of the 2006 Israel-Hezbollah war.

The exchange was mediated over the past 18 months by a U.N.-appointed German official.

Later in the day, hundreds of people welcomed Kantar in his hometown of Abey, a mountain hamlet 10 miles (16 kilometers) south of Beirut.

"This time yesterday I was in the hands of the enemy (Israelis). But at this moment, I am yearning more than before to confront them," Kantar said. Hezbollah's weapons are "a red line" that no one should be allowed to cross, he told reporters."


http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/2/story.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10522244


I am not surprised a their militant warring attitude.
It is what they are. 

typical comments from hezbollah and other terrorists.


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Re: ISRAEL/PALESTINE
Reply #437 - Jul 18th, 2008 at 10:28pm
 
Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 18th, 2008 at 2:45pm:
"Freed militants pledge to continue fight against Israel  
Page 1 of 2 View as a single page 10:28AM Friday July 18, 2008



BEIRUT, Lebanon - Five militants who were freed as part of a prisoner swap with Israel prayed Thursday at a slain Hezbollah military commander's grave, pledging to follow in his footsteps and continue fighting Israel.

Wearing military fatigues, the five men walked down a red carpet laid out for them outside Imad Mughniyeh's burial spot at a cemetery south of Beirut.

They laid wreaths and gave a military salute as supporters showered them with rice.

Mughniyeh, a shadowy figure Israel and the West accuse of masterminding terrorist bombings in the 1980s and 1990s, was killed in a car bomb in neighboring Syria in February.

Hezbollah and its supporters regard him as a hero of almost mythical stature. The militant group dubbed Wednesday's prisoner exchange "Operation Radwan" in reference to Mughniyeh's nom de guerre, Hajj Radwan.

"We swear by God ... to continue on your same path and not to retreat until we achieve the same stature that God bestowed on you," said Samir Kantar, who had been the longest-held Lebanese prisoner in Israel. He had been convicted of murder in a 1979 attack that left an Israeli policeman, a father and his two children dead.

Kantar referred to Mughniyeh's "martyrdom," saying, "This is our great wish. We envy you and we will achieve it, God willing."

A member of the Druse minority sect, Kantar and four Shiite Muslim guerrillas were freed in exchange for the bodies of two Israeli soldiers captured by Hezbollah at the onset of the 2006 Israel-Hezbollah war.

The exchange was mediated over the past 18 months by a U.N.-appointed German official.

Later in the day, hundreds of people welcomed Kantar in his hometown of Abey, a mountain hamlet 10 miles (16 kilometers) south of Beirut.

"This time yesterday I was in the hands of the enemy (Israelis). But at this moment, I am yearning more than before to confront them," Kantar said. Hezbollah's weapons are "a red line" that no one should be allowed to cross, he told reporters."


http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/2/story.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10522244


I am not surprised a their militant warring attitude.
It is what they are.  

typical comments from hezbollah and other terrorists.




Ok,

So perhaps you can advise me of the exact reasons why you consider Hezbollah terrorists?

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Sprintcyclist
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Re: ISRAEL/PALESTINE
Reply #438 - Jul 18th, 2008 at 10:44pm
 
either "Kantar referred to Mughniyeh's "martyrdom," saying, "This is our great wish. We envy you and we will achieve it, God willing."

or this
""This time yesterday I was in the hands of the enemy (Israelis). But at this moment, I am yearning more than before to confront them," Kantar said. Hezbollah's weapons are "a red line" that no one should be allowed to cross, he told reporters."

or that they have parades with their kids in suicide jackets

or that they sent rockets over to israel right up to the last hour of the last peacefire.

or that they follow a warlord.
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Re: ISRAEL/PALESTINE
Reply #439 - Jul 18th, 2008 at 11:25pm
 
Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 18th, 2008 at 10:44pm:
either "Kantar referred to Mughniyeh's "martyrdom," saying, "This is our great wish. We envy you and we will achieve it, God willing."

or this
""This time yesterday I was in the hands of the enemy (Israelis). But at this moment, I am yearning more than before to confront them," Kantar said. Hezbollah's weapons are "a red line" that no one should be allowed to cross, he told reporters."

or that they have parades with their kids in suicide jackets

or that they sent rockets over to israel right up to the last hour of the last peacefire.

or that they follow a warlord.


Israel occupies the Shebaa farms of Southern Lebanon, Hezbollah (which is recognised by the Lebanese government as a legitimate movement to resist Israeli occupation and aggression in the South) has a right to capture soldiers occupying Lebanese territory. Hezbollah has been doing this for years to get the release of thousands of Lebanese that are in Israeli prisons without charge, the majority of which are innocent civilians.

Israel has always traded prisoners this way with Hezbollah but then decided to launch the war in 2006 to get rid of Hezbollah. Hezbollah didn't start rocketing Israeli cities until AFTER Israel launched war on them and started bombing Lebanese cities.

The difference between Hezbollah and Israel is that Hezbollah sent 3,970 rockets into Israel, but before attacking any city they warned that particular city to shelter its civilians in bomb shelters. It was that action that saved so many Israeli civilian lives because Hezbollah was at least honorable enough to do that. Israel only lost 42 civilians in that war because of Hezbollah's honorability. Most of those deaths could have been avoided had the Israeli's not been arrogant in underestimating Hezbollah's ability to hit it's cities deep within Israel. If we compare that to Israel who intentionally bombed houses where Israel knew there were innocent civilians living in the houses and on top of that dropped more than 500,000 cluster bomb munitions all over civilian areas even though the Israeli arsenal is so much more advanced than Hezbollah's. Israel's attacks killed more than 1,000 civilians in Lebanon, it just goes to show who the real barbarians are in that situation.

At the end of the day the Israeli's got royally spanked and sent home to their mothers in body bags with a military defeat handed to them by Hezbollah.

Those vests you see are not vests that they are going to use to blow themselves up. It's a sign of their willingness to die for God. Hezbollah claims every attack it does on any target, it has no reason not to. But it has always denied taking part in suicide bombings.

If by suicide attacks you mean attacking Israeli soldiers and bases even where there is little chance or no chance of surviving, then yes. They do that.

Which warlord is that?
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Re: ISRAEL/PALESTINE
Reply #440 - Jul 19th, 2008 at 10:46am
 
Give up, you lost.
If you want to dress up weird and have lots of wives, migrate to the US and become a mormon, they are crazier than a shithouse rat as well, shouldn't be too hard a transition to make.

Interesting stats on those bombs, 3,970 rockets killed 42 people, so one death per 100 rockets, or just under, and Israel dropped half a million cluster bombs for a thousand deaths, so one death per 5,000 bombs. Sounds like the Israelis may have been trying to minimise casualties, if the figures are not as rubbery as we usually see from Islamist propagandists.

I guess your stats are as reliable as your opinions, malleable enough to justify whatever you wish to.
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Re: ISRAEL/PALESTINE
Reply #441 - Jul 19th, 2008 at 6:52pm
 
mozzaok wrote on Jul 19th, 2008 at 10:46am:
Give up, you lost.
If you want to dress up weird and have lots of wives, migrate to the US and become a mormon, they are crazier than a shithouse rat as well, shouldn't be too hard a transition to make.

Interesting stats on those bombs, 3,970 rockets killed 42 people, so one death per 100 rockets, or just under, and Israel dropped half a million cluster bombs for a thousand deaths, so one death per 5,000 bombs. Sounds like the Israelis may have been trying to minimise casualties, if the figures are not as rubbery as we usually see from Islamist propagandists.

I guess your stats are as reliable as your opinions, malleable enough to justify whatever you wish to.

Perhaps if you understood the way the Israeli's used cluster bombs or even the way munitions are deployed you'd understand exactly how stupid your comment was.

First of all. They call them cluster bombs because it's one bomb that releases a cluster of hundreds and sometimes thousands of munitions which get scattered all over the area, but only about 30-60% of them explode on impact and the rest just stay their as mines. I'll actually correct what I said before, Israel dropped closer to ONE MILLION cluster munitions in Southern Lebanon. They are designed to be used in open ground where armies lay but Israel used them in urban areas among farms and cities.  What you must understand is that Israel dropped 90% of those cluster munitions in the last 3 days of the conflict as a means to firstly destroy any civilian infrastructure and to destroy the peoples farms and income sources as a scorched earth policy, but also to boobytrap any land that the Lebanese civilians would be returning to their houses and farm lands in the South of Lebanon. They essentially mined the whole area to prevent repopulation. The deaths of Lebanese civilians I mentioned during the war are hardly from cluster munitions, since the war however hundreds of innocent civilians have been killed by these munitions which are concealed everywhere.

Most of the civilian deaths that the Israeli's caused were from guided missles which are so advanced they could fire one through a person's window if they wanted. Yet they still managed to kill a huge amount of Lebanese civilians, how is that the case?

Hezbollah however used relatively primitive rockets which are unguided and rely more on estimations and still managed to kill less civilians than Israel did in Lebanon. That was due to the fact that Hezbollah DIDN'T intentionally kill Israeli civilians and warned them first to get into their bomb shelters before attacking their cities. It's obvious however that with all of Israel's advanced technology and ability not to hit civilians that they still managed to kill more civilians than Hezbollah did. It shows then that Israel intentionally targetted Lebanese civilians as a means to terrorize them to stop supporting Hezbollah. They do the EXACT same thing in Palestine and have done so for the last 60 years. In the 1967 war the Israeli's shipped more than 120,000 Palestinians to the Jordanian border and forced them out of the country, this is no different.

Perhaps if you and others here had more of an understanding of the Middle East you'd understand it's far more complex than you think.

Here's the Respect Party's MP George Galloway's comments during the war, may God reward him as he makes it VERY clear regarding the truth and the complete bias of the Western Media.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Wdwk1dp-uU

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Re: ISRAEL/PALESTINE
Reply #442 - Jul 20th, 2008 at 9:14am
 
With thinking like that Malik, it is not too difficult to see why you find irrational beliefs so attractive.

Now it is closer to a million bombs?
Gotta love Islamist statistics, they would make a comfy pillow, they are so soft and rubbery.

Anyway, you believe Hezbollah was trying not to hurt people when they fire rockets. which from your figures produce at least one death per 100 rockets, but the Israelis, who you assert is trying to slaughter innocents, with their advanced technology, used almost a million bombs to kill a thousand, which is pushing 10,000 bombs dropped per single casualty, sounds like it would be safer going out in an Israeli bomb attack than going to an Islamist celebration with all those crazy bastards firing guns in the air.

What goes up, and all that, or do you think allah is up there catching them?
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Re: ISRAEL/PALESTINE
Reply #443 - Jul 20th, 2008 at 10:03am
 
According the Malik the Israelis shoot at children in schools for sport. So far one child has died, but no evidence was presented that it was an Israeli sport shooting.
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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.
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Re: ISRAEL/PALESTINE
Reply #444 - Jul 20th, 2008 at 1:16pm
 
mozzaok wrote on Jul 20th, 2008 at 9:14am:
With thinking like that Malik, it is not too difficult to see why you find irrational beliefs so attractive.

Now it is closer to a million bombs?
Gotta love Islamist statistics, they would make a comfy pillow, they are so soft and rubbery.

Perhaps before you accuse me of being a liar or exaggerating statistics you'd do some research yourself next time so you dont look like a complete idiot. I refer you to an article in an Israeli newspaper regarding the amount of munitions used.

Quote:
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/761781.html
IDF commander: We fired more than a million cluster bombs in Lebanon 

By Meron Rappaport 

"What we did was insane and monstrous, we covered entire towns in cluster bombs," the head of an IDF rocket unit in Lebanon said regarding the use of cluster bombs and phosphorous shells during the war.

Quoting his battalion commander, the rocket unit head stated that the IDF fired around 1,800 cluster bombs, containing over
1.2 million cluster bomblets
.

In addition, soldiers in IDF artillery units testified that the army used phosphorous shells during the war, widely forbidden by international law. According to their claims, the vast majority of said explosive ordinance was fired in the final 10 days of the war.
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The rocket unit commander stated that Multiple Launch Rocket System (MLRS) platforms were heavily used in spite of the fact that they were known to be highly inaccurate.

MLRS is a track or tire carried mobile rocket launching platform, capable of firing a very high volume of mostly unguided munitions. The basic rocket fired by the platform is unguided and imprecise, with a range of about 32 kilometers. The rockets are designed to burst into sub-munitions at a planned altitude in order to blanket enemy army and personnel on the ground with smaller explosive rounds.

The use of such weaponry is controversial mainly due to its inaccuracy and ability to wreak great havoc against indeterminate targets over large areas of territory, with a margin of error of as much as 1,200 meters from the intended target to the area hit.

The cluster rounds which don't detonate on impact, believed by the United Nations to be around 40% of those fired by the IDF in Lebanon, remain on the ground as unexploded munitions, effectively littering the landscape with thousands of land mines which will continue to claim victims long after the war has ended.

Because of their high level of failure to detonate, it is believed that there are around 500,000 unexploded munitions on the ground in Lebanon. To date 12 Lebanese civilians have been killed by these mines since the end of the war.

According to the commander, in order to compensate for the inaccuracy of the rockets and the inability to strike individual targets precisely, units would "flood" the battlefield with munitions, accounting for the littered and explosive landscape of post-war Lebanon.

When his reserve duty came to a close, the commander in question sent a letter to Defense Minister Amir Peretz outlining the use of cluster munitions, a letter which has remained unanswered.

'Excessive injury and unnecessary suffering'

It has come to light that IDF soldiers fired phosphorous rounds in order to cause fires in Lebanon. An artillery commander has admitted to seeing trucks loaded with phosphorous rounds on their way to artillery crews in the north of Israel.

A direct hit from a phosphorous shell typically causes severe burns and a slow, painful death.

International law forbids the use of weapons that cause "excessive injury and unnecessary suffering", and many experts are of the opinion that phosphorous rounds fall directly in that category.

The International Red Cross has determined that international law forbids the use of phosphorous and other types of flammable rounds against personnel, both civilian and military.

IDF: No violation of international law
In response, the IDF Spokesman's Office stated that "International law does not include a sweeping prohibition of the use of cluster bombs. The convention on conventional weaponry does not declare a prohibition on [phosphorous weapons], rather, on principles regulating the use of such weapons.

"For understandable operational reasons, the IDF does not respond to [accounts of] details of weaponry in its possession.

"The IDF makes use only of methods and weaponry which are permissible under international law. Artillery fire in general, including MLRS fire, were used in response solely to firing on the state of Israel."

The Defense Minister's office said it had not received messages regarding cluster bomb fire. 


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Re: ISRAEL/PALESTINE
Reply #445 - Jul 20th, 2008 at 1:16pm
 
mozzaok wrote on Jul 20th, 2008 at 9:14am:

Anyway, you believe Hezbollah was trying not to hurt people when they fire rockets. which from your figures produce at least one death per 100 rockets, but the Israelis, who you assert is trying to slaughter innocents, with their advanced technology, used almost a million bombs to kill a thousand, which is pushing 10,000 bombs dropped per single casualty, sounds like it would be safer going out in an Israeli bomb attack than going to an Islamist celebration with all those crazy bastards firing guns in the air.

What goes up, and all that, or do you think allah is up there catching them?

Read what I said again Mozza, the Israeli's dropped 90% of those munitions in the last 72 hours of the war when a ceasefire was iminent, it shows they were doing it to prevent repopulation and destroy the infrastructure. Since the war hundreds of Lebanese civilians have died from stepping on these cluster munitions and many more have lost legs and arms to them.

The majority of Lebanese civilian deaths DURING the war were caused by 'smart bombs' directly targetting areas where the civilians live, to terrorize them into stop supporting Hezbollah. The difference between Hezbollah and Israel is that Hezbollah's rockets were primitive and unguided. Hezbollah had the honour to warn Israeli civilians in which ever city they were attacking prior to doing so so they could get into their bomb shelters, in comparison to Israel's direct targetting of civilians.
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Re: ISRAEL/PALESTINE
Reply #446 - Jul 20th, 2008 at 1:18pm
 
freediver wrote on Jul 20th, 2008 at 10:03am:
According the Malik the Israelis shoot at children in schools for sport. So far one child has died, but no evidence was presented that it was an Israeli sport shooting.

Perhaps you can tell me then why so many children have been shot in the head, neck and upper body? Perhaps you can explain then while little girls are being shot in the head when they are on their way to school or even at their school desks? Perhaps you can explain why little boys who are throwing stones are being shot in the head?
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Re: ISRAEL/PALESTINE
Reply #447 - Jul 20th, 2008 at 10:44pm
 
perhaps you could tell me why a martyr "little boy" throws stones at a tank ??

did his mum teach him that ?
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Re: ISRAEL/PALESTINE
Reply #448 - Jul 20th, 2008 at 11:12pm
 
Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 20th, 2008 at 10:44pm:
perhaps you could tell me why a martyr "little boy" throws stones at a tank ??

did his mum teach him that ?


It doesn't matter how, what he was taught Sprint. A fully armed and armored soldier shouldn't shoot and kill little boys simply because he was throwing rocks. This is akin to the victim being beaten to death for looking at the perpetrator. We hear about this all the time in the news and are appalled by the senselessness of it. Why aren't we appalled by the same being perpertrated by soldiers?
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Re: ISRAEL/PALESTINE
Reply #449 - Jul 20th, 2008 at 11:43pm
 
Acid Monkey wrote on Jul 20th, 2008 at 11:12pm:
Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 20th, 2008 at 10:44pm:
perhaps you could tell me why a martyr "little boy" throws stones at a tank ??

did his mum teach him that ?


It doesn't matter how, what he was taught Sprint. A fully armed and armored soldier shouldn't shoot and kill little boys simply because he was throwing rocks. This is akin to the victim being beaten to death for looking at the perpetrator. We hear about this all the time in the news and are appalled by the senselessness of it. Why aren't we appalled by the same being perpertrated by soldiers?

Well Acid, you are appalled by it and that's a good thing.

But you see, people like Sprint and Mozza consider Muslims to be subhuman and will blame the poor oppressed child's murder on the child himself or his family for letting him go and throw stones, not taking into account that the child was shot dead by an Israeli soldier who didn't actually have to do that. They think that Muslims shouldn't have the same rights as they enjoy.
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