A two way street is not a realistic metaphor for the Israeli -Palestinian conflict. because one side believes that the other side should be wiped off the planet.
Hardly a position conducive to viable negotiation.

As long as they feel threatened by the whole muslim world, they will continue to arm themselves to the teeth, and fight mercilessly.
We have seen moderate Israeli leaders who desired peace, but with no moderate leader on the other side to negotiate with, the opportunities were lost.

So then get rid of Israel, that's what the European Jews claim to the land is.. Purely religious.

They are Israeli Jews now Malik.

The girl Iman who was killed was not involved in any act of violence mate.

What do you think she was doing there Malik?

mozzaok wrote on Jul 13^th, 2008 at 8:54pm:

That's utter crap. I've shown you that the Palestinians want a two state solution, heck the whole arab world does and that's demonstrated by the Arab Peace Initiative that I pasted earlier. It's the Isaelis that don't want peace, they're refusing to accept it.

It's the Israeli's and radical Jews within it that wish to drive the Arabs out of most of the Middle East and establish the 'Greater Israel'. They are becoming more and more popular and want to do that through force.

Greater Israel comprises all of modern-day Israel, the Palestinian Territories, and Lebanon, as well as large parts of Syria, Jordan, and Egypt.

I'm just truly in shock at how people can look at the death of that little girl so callously, and struggle and fumble to find any excuse they can to justify it occuring

But no-one is trying to justify it. Asking simple questions like why did this scared little girl wander out there is not the same as saying the soldier did the right thing.

I've shown you that the Palestinians want a two state solution, heck the whole arab world does

Speak for yourself Malik. Plenty of Arabs want to drive the Israelis into the see.

It's the Israeli's and radical Jews within it that wish to drive the Arabs out of most of the Middle East and establish the 'Greater Israel'.

Come on Malik, this is getting absurd. You sound more one-eyed now than sprint ever did.

She was a thirteen year old girl FD, what do you think she was doing!? She was playing as kids play on her way to school!

Why was she so scared then?

You continue to blame her for this

Not at all Malik. The child was innocent. That's the point. You are letting your emotions cloud your judgement. Just because we don't automatically condemn the Israelis every time something goes wrong does not mean we blame the innocent victims. You won't solve everything by pretending everything is black and white and attacking everyone who doesn't see it the same way.

Again, it just goes to show that you think Muslims, Arabs and other non European non whites are subhuman.

You, and your friend Mozza are obviously both pigs and savages and to be quite honest and I pray that if you don't wake up from such disgusting attitudes that God sends you an oppressor to do just the same to you and your families, so then you can see exactly what it is like to be oppressed. Perhaps then you'll learn some humility.

mozzaok wrote on Jul 13^th, 2008 at 8:54pm:


Mozz, everything in life IS a two way street. Two sides to a coin etc etc. Why does one side want the other side wiped off the face of the planet (I'm assuming by that you mean the Palestinians)? Why are they aggrieved so much that they feel such hatred? What was done to them? Whether the grievance is valid or not, it IS the other side of the street.

Meanwhile, it works the other way as well; I've seen countless news footages and docos where Israeli settlers produce the same type of hatred - that all Palestinians should be shot on sight; kill even the children because they will one day grow up and try and kill us etc. Again, why display such hatred? What caused it? Well, we know what caused it (mortar drops, bomb belts etc).

But here is the point of my post (@ 8.40pm), why do we know so MUCH about the bomb belts, and the mortar drops and very little about the Palestinian situation and point of view. There is a great imbalance of view point and opinion from the Western media - and its nearly all one way (Israeli). Check out other news outlets besides the CNN, NBC, FoxNews, Courier Mail, The Age etc. Here are a few suggestions, Jakarta Post, Asia News Network, The Strait Times, The Muslim Observer, and yes, Al-Jazeera Online. (People who believe that Asian countries don't see Australia as a racist country weren't reading the news from Asian newspapers.)

Western govt has harsh words and great indignation when harm is thrown into Israel but soft diplomatic words when Israel is the aggressor. There is talk of preemptive strike by Israel against Iran. What will happen when they do act? There will be diplomatic statements like "We appalled and disappointed in the path the Israeli govt has decided to adopt. We hope that they will return back to diplomatic talks on the roadmap to peace." That is all. Sanctions? Counter strike towards the aggressor? Highly unlikely. However, should Iran retaliate we know who the West will side with.

mozzaok wrote on Jul 13^th, 2008 at 8:54pm:


It's easy to say "I'm no fan of Israel" to wipe your hands clean and to appear unbiased. But its statement above that show where your leanings are - "the whole Muslim world"? Really? We all know of the cliché of the paranoid and hypersensitive Jew but should the world be hypersensitive on their behalf as well? Are you speaking for them or do you personally truly believe that the Muslim world is out to get them? I can understand why Israel may believe that (afterall, they're in the thick of it) but why does the rest of the world think so too? A few million radicals (yes Sprint, it's a big number) out of the few billion Muslims does not equate to the entire Muslim world.

freediver wrote on Jul 13^th, 2008 at 2:45pm:


freediver wrote on Jul 13^th, 2008 at 9:54pm:



freediver wrote on Jul 13^th, 2008 at 9:54pm:


What's your point FD? What she was doing there in the first place or why she was scared is irrelevant. Sure, she probably shouldn't have be there but you know sometimes kids will be kids. They do things for "adventure" because their parents forbid them to etc. She was there and she paid for it with her life. It doesn't excuse the manner in which she was killed (17 bullets in her torso including 3 in the head).The Palestinians may have their mortar rockets and bomb belts but the Israelis are trigger happy and have a shoot first mentality. Now, the question is were the shooter(s) prosecuted for this killing? It will show what attitude and value the Israeli authorities have on the girl's life.

Malik Shakur wrote on Jul 13^th, 2008 at 5:20pm:


Mythology doesn't concern me. They don't exist anymore - if they ever existed.  This kind of material is 'legendary' and lost in history. It is probably reconstructed from earlier oral tradition. As with all oral tradition, it possibly has a hint of truth to it.

All through history we have speculations about the 10 lost tribes. Groups as widespread as the Kurds and the Irish all claim descent from one or more of them. The Early Viking kings had lineages going back to Adam. Before they converted to Christianity, they had lineages going back to Odin.

You find something similar in the mythical seven Pictish Kingdoms, which were named after the sons of Cruithne. This bears some strong analogies to the legend of the 12 tribes.

12 was a very significant number to the Akkadians and the Sumerians before them. (How many sons did Ishmael have?) It stemmed from their system of numbers. They used to count with both hands, using the thumb as a pointer. There are 12 finger segments on each hand. When they got to 12 on one hand, the other thumb would point to the next digit. That way, they could count to 60 using both hands.


Look, I don't pretend that the Israelis had any right to invade Palestine in 1948. It's just too late to change the past. Ultimately we all came from Africa if you go back far enough. People have always migrated and some tribes have been more economically dominant than others.

The fact is that they are there, and all parties have to deal with the fact. There have been many injustices in history and prehistory - too numerous to list.

muso wrote on Jul 13^th, 2008 at 10:53pm:


So if we can't trace any connection back to there by them then that's fine. Either let them live under an Islamic State as Muslims Christians and Jews did for more than a thousand years in peace and happiness together or send them back to Europe and give them part of Germany because it was the Nazi's who did the genocide, not the Palestinians. They shouldn't have to suffer for the Nazi's behaviour.