Forum

 
  Back to OzPolitic.com   Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
  Forum Home Album HelpSearch Recent Rules LoginRegister  
 

Pages: 1 ... 17 18 19 20 21 ... 40
Send Topic Print
ISRAEL/PALESTINE (Read 86184 times)
Malik Shakur
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 799
Auckland, New Zealand
Gender: male
Re: ISRAEL/PALESTINE
Reply #270 - Jul 13th, 2008 at 1:51am
 
http://youtube.com/watch?v=qMg_C6MduD4

Min Irhabe (Who's the Terrorist)

LYRICS ENGLISH:
Who's the terrorist?
I'm the terrorist?!
How am I the terrorist when you've taken my land?
Who's the terrorist?
You're the terrorist!
You've taken everything I own while I'm living in my homeland

You're killing us like you've killed our ancestors
You want me to go to the law?
What for?
You're the Witness, the Lawyer, and the Judge!
If you are my Judge
I'll be sentenced to death
You want us to be the minority?
To end up the majority in the cemetery?
In your dreams!
You're a Democracy?
Actually it's more like the Nazis
Your countless raping of the Arab's soul
Finally impregnated it
Gave birth to your child
His name: Suicide Bomber
And then you call him the terrorist?
You attack me but still you cry out
When i remind you it was you who attacked me
You silence me and shout:
"Don't they have parents to keep them at home?"
"But you let small children throw stones!"
WHAT?!
You must have forgotten you buried our parents under the rubble of our homes
And now while my agony is so immense
You call me the terrorist?

Who's the terrorist?
I'm the terrorist?
How I am the terrorist
When you've taken my land?!
Who's the terrorist?
You're the terrorist!
You've taken everything I own
while I'm living in my homeland

Why terrorist?! Because my blood is not calm
It's boiling!
Because I hold my head for my homeland
You've killed my loved ones
Now I'm all alone
My parents driven out
But I will remain to shout out
I'm not against peace
Peace is against me
It's going to destroy me
You don't listen to uor voices
You silence us and degrade us
And who are you?!
And when did you became ruler?
Look how many you've killed
and how many orphans you've created
Our mothers are crying
Our fathers are in anguish
Our land is disappearing
And I'll tell you who you are!
You grew up sported
We grew up in poverty
Who grew up with freedom?
And who grew up in continument?
We fight for Our freedom
But you've made that a crime
And you, the terrorist call me the terrorist!


Who's the terrorist?
I'm the terrorist?
How I am the terrorist
When you've taken my land?!
Who's the terrorist?
You're the terrorist!
You've taken everything I own
while I'm living in my homeland

So when will I stop being a terrorist?!
When you hit me and I turn the other check
How do you expect me to thank
the one who harmed me?!
I tell you what!
You tell me how you want me to be!
Down on my knees with my hands tied up
My eyes to the ground
Surrounding by bodies
Houses destroyed
Families driven out
Our children orphaned
Our freedom chained up
You oppress
You kill
We bury
We'll remain patient
We'll suppress our pain
Most importantly you feel secure
Just relax and leave us all the pain
You see our blood is like that of dogs
NOT EVEN
When dogs die they receive sympathy
So our blood is not as valuable as a dogs
No - My blood is valuable
And I will continue defending myself Even if you call me a terrorist
Back to top
 
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Malik Shakur
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 799
Auckland, New Zealand
Gender: male
Re: ISRAEL/PALESTINE
Reply #271 - Jul 13th, 2008 at 1:53am
 
Look into my eyes: Outlandish
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3P12aqVeZkQ

Look into my eyes
Tell me what you see
You don't see a damn thing
'cause you can't relate to me
You're blinded by our differences
My life makes no sense to you
I'm the persecuted one
You're the red, white and blue

Each day you wake in tranquility
No fears to cross your eyes
Each day I wake in gratitude
Thanking God He let me rise
You worry about your education
And the bills you have to pay
I worry about my vulnerable life
And if I'll survive another day
Your biggest fear is getting a ticket
As you cruise your Cadillac
My fear is that the tank that has just left
Will turn around and come back

Yet, do you know the truth of where your money goes?
Do you let the media deceive your mind?
Is this a truth nobody, nobody, nobody knows?
Has our world gone all blind?

Yet, do you know the truth of where your money goes?
Do you let the media deceive your mind?
Is this a truth nobody, nobody, nobody knows?
Someone tell me ...

Ooohh, let's not cry tonight
I promise you one day it's through
Ohh my brothers, Ohh my sisters
Ooohh, shine a light for every soul that ain't with us no more
Ohh my brothers, Ohh my sisters

See I've known terror for quite some time
57 years so cruel
Terror breathes the air I breathe
It's the checkpoint on my way to school
Terror is the robbery of my land
And the torture of my mother
The imprisonment of my innocent father
The bullet in my baby brother
The bulldozers and the tanks
The gases and the guns
The bombs that fall outside my door
All due to your funds
You blame me for defending myself
Against the ways of my enemies
I'm terrorized in my own land (what)
And I'm the terrorist?


Yet, do you know the truth of where your money goes?
Do you let the media deceive your mind?
Is this a truth nobody, nobody, nobody knows?
Has our world gone all blind?

Yet, do you know the truth of where your money goes?
Do you let the media deceive your mind?
Is this a truth nobody, nobody, nobody knows?
Someone tell me ...

Ooohh, let's not cry tonight, I promise you one day it's through
Ohh my brothers, Ohh my sisters,
Ooohh, shine a light for every soul that ain't with us no more
Ohh my brothers, Ohh my sisters,

American , do you realize that the taxes that you pay
Feed the forces that traumatize my every living day
So if I won't be here tomorrow
It's written in my fate
May the future bring a brighter day
The end of our wait

(pause)


Ooohh, let's not cry tonight, I promise you one day it's through
Ohh my brothers, Ohh my sisters,
Ooohh, shine a light for every soul that ain't with us no more
Ohh my brothers, Ohh my sisters,

[with kids]
Ohh let's not cry tonight I promise you one day is through
Ohh my brothers! Ohh my sisters!
Ooh shine a light for every soul that ain't with us no more
Ohh my brothers! Ohh my sisters!
Back to top
 
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Malik Shakur
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 799
Auckland, New Zealand
Gender: male
Re: ISRAEL/PALESTINE
Reply #272 - Jul 13th, 2008 at 2:03am
 
...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toO6BfISFZo&feature=related
Try Not To Cry: Sami Yusuf ft Outlandish

You, you’re not aware
That we’re aware
Of your despair
Don’t show your tears
To your oppressor
Don’t show your tears

CHORUS:
Try not to cry little one
You’re not alone
I’ll stand by you
Try not to cry little one
My heart is your stone
I’ll throw with you

Isam:
‘Ayn Jalut where David slew Goliath
This very same place that we be at
Passing through the sands of times
This land’s been the victim of countless crimes
From Crusaders and Mongols
to the present aggression
Then the Franks, now even a crueller oppression
If these walls could speak,
imagine what would they say

For me in this path that I walk on
there's only one way
Bullets may kill, bones may break
Still I throw stones like David before me and I say

CHORUS

You, you’re not aware
That we’re aware
Of your despair
Your nightmares will end
This I promise, I promise

CHORUS

Lenny:
No llores, no pierdas la fe
La sed la calma el que haze
Agua de la arena
Y tu que te levantas con orgullo entre las piedras
Haz hecho mares de este polvo
Don’t cry, don’t lose faith
The one who made water come out of the sand
Is the one who quenches the thirst
And you who rise proud from between the stones
Have made oceans from this dust

Waqas:
I throw stones at my eyes
’cause for way too long they’ve been dry
Plus they see what they shouldn’t from oppressed babies to thighs
I throw stones at my tongue
’cause it should really keep its peace
I throw stones at my feet
’cause they stray and lead to defeat
A couple of big ones at my heart
’cause the thing is freezing cold
But my nafs is still alive
and kicking unstoppable and on a roll
I throw bricks at the devil so I’ll be sure to hit him
But first at the man in the mirror
so I can chase out the venom

Isam:
Hmm, a little boy shot in the head
Just another kid sent out to get some bread
Not the first murder nor the last
Again and again a repetition of the past
Since the very first day same story
Young ones, old ones, some glory
How can it be, has the whole world turned blind?
Or is it just ’cause it’s only affecting my kind?!
If these walls could speak,
imagine what would they say
For me in this path that I walk on
there’s only one way
Bullets may kill, bones may break
Still I throw stones like David before me and I say

CHORUS
Back to top
 
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Sprintcyclist
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 41788
Gender: male
Re: ISRAEL/PALESTINE
Reply #273 - Jul 13th, 2008 at 2:13am
 
Anyone who throws stones at a tank wants death - just like any good wannabe martyr.

Anyone who supports that sort of deathwish is no better.
Back to top
 

Modern Classic Right Wing
 
IP Logged
 
Malik Shakur
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 799
Auckland, New Zealand
Gender: male
Re: ISRAEL/PALESTINE
Reply #274 - Jul 13th, 2008 at 2:14am
 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7451691.stm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrzxiQFgym8
'Jewish settler attack' on film
By Tim Franks
BBC News, Jerusalem  

Footage of West Bank attack

Footage from a video camera handed out by an Israeli human rights group appears to show Jewish settlers beating up Palestinians in the West Bank.

An elderly shepherd, his wife and a nephew said they were attacked by four masked men for allowing their animals to graze near the settlement of Susia.

The rights group, B'Tselem, said the cameras were provided to enable Palestinians to get proof of attacks.

A spokesman for the Israeli police said that an investigation was under way.

So far, no-one has been arrested.

Baseball bats

For the past year, B'Tselem has handed out video cameras to Palestinians as part of its "Shooting Back" project.


The BBC has been given exclusive access to the footage of this particular attack, which happened earlier this week. The date and time on the camera footage shows that it is Sunday afternoon.

Over the brow of the hill walk four masked men holding baseball bats. To the right of the screen, in the foreground, stands a 58-year-old Palestinian woman.

Thamam al-Nawaja has been herding her goats close to the Jewish settlement of Susia, near Hebron in the southern West Bank.

Within a few seconds, she, along with her 70-year-old husband and one of her nephews, will be beaten up.

As the first blows land, the woman filming - the daughter-in-law of the elderly couple - drops the camera and runs for help.

'Ten-minute warning'

Mrs Nawaja spent three days in hospital after the attack.

Returning to the small Palestinian encampment close to the red-roofed houses of Susia, she stepped slowly and unsteadily out of the minibus.


Quote:
They don't want us to stay on our land, but we won't leave - we'll die here
Thamam al-Nawaja  


A dark stain showed through the white gauze covering her broken right arm. Her veil was lifted gingerly away from her lined face. A bloodshot eye and intersection of scars revealed a fractured left cheek.

"The settlers gave us a 10-minute warning to clear off from the land," she told me, her voice a tired, cracked whisper.

She and her husband had stood their ground. It is at this point that her voice grows louder.

"They don't want us to stay on our land. But we won't leave. We'll die here. It's ours," she added.

Indeed, the rest of the world regards Jewish settlements in the West Bank such as Susia, as illegal, built on occupied territory.

Those settlements have been a large part of the conflict between Palestinians and Israelis for the last 41 years. The daily confrontation is not often caught on camera. That, now, is beginning to change.

Video proof

The attack near Susia was filmed with one of 100 video cameras that B'Tselem has handed out to Palestinians in the region.


Quote:
When they have the camera, they have proof that something happened - they now have something they can work with, to use as a weapon
Oren Yakobovich
B'Tselem  


The thinking behind the project is that when trouble flares, rather than just giving a statement to the Israeli police or army, video carries much more weight.

"The difference is amazing," says Oren Yakobovich, who leads the Shooting Back project.

"When they have the camera, they have proof that something happened. They now have something they can work with, to use as a weapon."

We asked a spokesman from the Susia settlement for a comment on Sunday's incident. He declined.

Inside one of the tents belonging to the Palestinians living near Susia, we watched the footage of the aftermath of the attack - the victims slumped by the roadside, bloodied, waiting for an ambulance.

The bright, wide eyes of the children shone with the light of the small television screen.

Violence against Jews as well as Palestinians has long scarred this place. Video may now may be giving us a new and raw view.

But for most people here, the only answer - a political deal - remains out of sight.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/middle_east/7451691.stm

Published: 2008/06/12 18:35:46 GMT

Back to top
 
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Acid Monkey
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Goth Father

Posts: 1064
EU
Gender: male
Re: ISRAEL/PALESTINE
Reply #275 - Jul 13th, 2008 at 2:14am
 
I particularly like Sami Yusuf's Supplication and Mother (the Arabic version).

Smiley
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Malik Shakur
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 799
Auckland, New Zealand
Gender: male
Re: ISRAEL/PALESTINE
Reply #276 - Jul 13th, 2008 at 2:23am
 
Acid Monkey wrote on Jul 13th, 2008 at 2:14am:
I particularly like Sami Yusuf's Supplication and Mother (the Arabic version).

Smiley

As do I,

The prophet Muhammad pbuh said that paradise lies at the feat of our mothers in relation to how heavily our respect for our mothers counts when taking our position in heaven into account.

But let's stick to the topic of Palestine shall we?
Back to top
 
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Sprintcyclist
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 41788
Gender: male
Re: ISRAEL/PALESTINE
Reply #277 - Jul 13th, 2008 at 2:31am
 
The truth be told of the Middle East conflict:

1. Israel became a state in 1312 B.C., two millennia before Islam.

2. Arab refugees from Israel began calling themselves "Palestinians" in 1967, two decades after modern Israeli statehood.

3. After conquering the land in 1272 B.C., Jews ruled it for a thousand years and maintained a continuous presence there for 3,300 years.

4. The only Arab rule following Muslim conquest in 633 A.D. lasted just 22 years.

5. For over 3,300 years, Jerusalem was the Jewish capital. It was never the capital of any Arab or Muslim entity. Even under Jordanian rule, (East) Jerusalem was not made the capital, and no Arab leader came to visit it.

6. Jerusalem is mentioned over 700 times in the Bible, but not once is it mentioned in the Koran.

7. Jews pray facing Jerusalem, Muslims pray facing Mecca. If Muslims are between these two cities, Muslims pray facing Mecca with their backs to Jerusalem.

8. Kind David founded Jerusalem, Mohammed never set foot in it.

9. In 1948 Arab leaders urged their people to leave, promising to cleanse the land of any Jewish presence. 68% of them fled without ever setting eyes on an Israeli soldier.

10. Virtually the entire Jewish population of Muslim countries had to flee as the result of violence and pogroms.

11. Some 630,000 Arabs left Israel in 1948, while close to a million Jews were forced to leave the Muslim countries.

12. In spite of the vast territories at their disposal, Arab refugees were deliberately prevented from assimilating into their host countries. Of the millions of refugees following World War II, they are the only group to have never integrated with their fellow Muslims. Most of the Jewish refugees from Europe and Arab lands were settled in Israel, a country no larger than New Jersey.

13. There are 22 Muslim countries, not counting Palestine. There is only one Jewish state. Arabs started all five wars against Israel, and lost every one of them.

14. The Fatah and Hamas constitutions still call for the destruction of Israel. Israel ceded most of the West Bank and all of Gaza to the Palestinian Authority, and even provided it with arms.

15. During the Jordanian occupation, Jewish holy sites were vandalized and were off limits to Jews. Under Israeli rule, all Muslim and Christian holy sites are accessible to all faiths.

16. Out of 175 United Nations security council resolutions up to 1990, 97 were against Israel. Out of 690 General Assembly resolutions, 429 were against Israel.

17. The U.N. was silent when the Jordanians destroyed 58 Synagogues in the Old City of Jerusalem. It remained silent while Jordan systematically desecrated the ancient Jewish cemetery on the Mount of Olives, and it remained silent when Jordan enforced apartheid laws preventing Jews from accessing the Temple Mount and the Western Wall.
Back to top
 

Modern Classic Right Wing
 
IP Logged
 
Sprintcyclist
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 41788
Gender: male
Re: ISRAEL/PALESTINE
Reply #278 - Jul 13th, 2008 at 2:34am
 


"PEOPLE frequently blame individual aspects of the Arab-Israel conflict for the lack of Israeli-Palestinian peace. But applying such selective moral outrage, as did Paul Heywood-Smith and Bassam Dally in last week's Inquirer, ignores the elephant in the room. This elephant isn't Israeli settlements. Nor is it just Palestinian terrorism.

The reason Israeli-Palestinian peace seems so elusive is one of simple rejectionism. Much of the Palestinian and wider Arab elite still fundamentally reject Israel's right to exist.

Given that Israel has existed for 60 years, this sounds bizarre. But it explains why books, Palestinian television programs and even summer camps for children promote ideas of Israel's supposedly inevitable destruction. It explains the Palestinian decision to boycott next month's International Geographers' Congress, because Israelis will be present. More importantly, it explains why most Arab states refuse to make peace with Israel.

Yes, the Arab League issued an Arab-Israel peace plan. But its wording made clear Israel was required to effectively dissolve itself as a country by absorbing all Palestinian refugees, plus their descendants. Only then would Arab countries decide whether to enter negotiations with Israel. Absorbing four million non-Jews would remove the Jewish nature of the Jewish state - a non-starter for Israel. Israel suggested using the proposal as a basis for negotiations. The Arab League rejected this outright, proving it wasn't attempting peace, rather attempting to make Israel look bad for rejecting it.

The widespread rejection of Israel as a distinct Middle Eastern society has seen many Arabs blaming Israel for the region's woes.

This furphy has been partially internalised by outsiders claiming Middle East peace would be realised if only the US and Australian governments became "honest brokers" and leaned on Israel to remove settlements, for instance. But these governments are honest. They criticise the Palestinian Authority for not ending corruption, terrorism or incitement. Where they think Israel errs, they say so. Most of the time, people who call for governments to be "honest brokers" in the conflict, rather dishonestly mean they think those governments should excuse Palestinian wrongdoing.

Besides, anyone who thinks removing Israeli settlements will improve living standards or human rights in the Arab Middle East (or prevent Sunnis and Shi'ites slaughtering each other in Iraq) is dreaming.

In 2005, Israel removed its settlements from Gaza, in a voluntary action designed to prompt peaceful Palestinian reciprocation.

The result wasn't peaceful reciprocity. The number of rockets fired from Gaza into nearby Israeli towns dramatically increased.

Palestinian media portrayed the Israeli withdrawal as a military defeat, urging Palestinian fighters to double their efforts in order to defeat the Zionists once and for all. Nor did Palestinians build housing or industry in the former settlements.

My point? The settlements are often criticised as an obstacle to Palestinian development and a reason for violence. Yet, when the settlement excuse was removed, development didn't increase, nor violence decrease.

Moreover, all parties to the conflict know that when a final status agreement is signed, any Jewish presence in what will become Palestine will be removed. Though Israel will keep some settlements, Palestinians will gain part of Israel, in a negotiated land swap. Palestine will become the Judenrein state it has always dreamed of being.

Despite these well-known facts, some still claim the settlements prevent peace. A recent Israeli announcement to build more apartments in eastern Jerusalem is provided as an example. But these apartments aren't new settlements, nor are they taking any land from Palestinians; they're completely within pre-existing Jewish suburbs.

Palestinians might hate settlements, but settlements aren't the reason for a lack of peace. The reason is the ongoing rejection of Israel's right to exist.

Why did the Palestinian leadership turn down peace offers in 1937, '47, '67, 2000 and 2001? Not because it didn't want a state, but because accepting a state would also mean accepting Israel existing alongside it.

So why did Yasser Arafat sign interim agreements with Israel during the Oslo process from 1993? Because he was prepared to take what he could - arms, autonomy, etc - but wasn't prepared to sign a final status agreement. When push came to shove at Camp David in 2000, Arafat walked away from a two-state offer without offering a counter-proposal.

There is no peace because of Arafat's then - and now Hamas's - rejectionism. This produces terrorism, which produces attempts to stop it, which hardens opinions on both sides. If the Palestinian elite would make the historic decision to reconcile itself to a state alongside, not instead of, the Jewish state, peace could quickly be realised. "

Bren Carlill is an analyst at the Australia-Israel & Jewish Affairs Council.



http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24005694-15084,00.html
Back to top
 

Modern Classic Right Wing
 
IP Logged
 
Malik Shakur
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 799
Auckland, New Zealand
Gender: male
Re: ISRAEL/PALESTINE
Reply #279 - Jul 13th, 2008 at 3:10am
 
Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 13th, 2008 at 2:31am:
The truth be told of the Middle East conflict:

[quote author=sprintcyclist link=1181878710/270#277 date=1215880266]
1. Israel became a state in 1312 B.C., two millennia before Islam.

The Israel of the Bible was a theocracy the Israel of today and zionism is a secular belief and a secular state.
Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 13th, 2008 at 2:31am:

2. Arab refugees from Israel began calling themselves "Palestinians" in 1967, two decades after modern Israeli statehood.

That's not true. Where'd you get that rubbish?
Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 13th, 2008 at 2:31am:

3. After conquering the land in 1272 B.C., Jews ruled it for a thousand years and maintained a continuous presence there for 3,300 years.

Yes, they did rule it. And Muslims came and liberated them from the Roman oppression. But again, Israel is not a Jewish state, it's a secular democracy
Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 13th, 2008 at 2:31am:

4. The only Arab rule following Muslim conquest in 633 A.D. lasted just 22 years.

Are you kidding? Do you even read this crap Sprint? We ruled Palestine for more than 1000 years..

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 13th, 2008 at 2:31am:

5. For over 3,300 years, Jerusalem was the Jewish capital. It was never the capital of any Arab or Muslim entity. Even under Jordanian rule, (East) Jerusalem was not made the capital, and no Arab leader came to visit it.

Again, not a Jewish State, its a secular democracy.. Just because you call a country Israel it doesn't mean that the state fulfils the necessary guidelines in being a Jewish state.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 13th, 2008 at 2:31am:

6. Jerusalem is mentioned over 700 times in the Bible, but not once is it mentioned in the Koran.

Hmmmm, not really a smart one there.

017.001
Glory to (Allah) Who did take His servant for a Journey by night from the Sacred Mosque to the farthest Mosque, whose precincts We did bless,- in order that We might show him some of Our Signs: for He is the One Who heareth and seeth (all things).


It's referring to the Mosque in Jerusalem

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 13th, 2008 at 2:31am:

7. Jews pray facing Jerusalem, Muslims pray facing Mecca. If Muslims are between these two cities, Muslims pray facing Mecca with their backs to Jerusalem.

That's not very logical.

Muslims hold Jerusalem as the third holiest place in the world. The prophet pbuh himself said that there are 3 places people should make pilgramage to. Mecca, Medina and Jerusalem.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 13th, 2008 at 2:31am:

8. Kind David founded Jerusalem, Mohammed never set foot in it.

Muslims hold King David as a Prophet of Islam too, peace be upon him. As we hold all prophets as Muslims.

Again, Israel isn't a Jewish state, its a secular democracy.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 13th, 2008 at 2:31am:

9. In 1948 Arab leaders urged their people to leave, promising to cleanse the land of any Jewish presence. 68% of them fled without ever setting eyes on an Israeli soldier.

Not at all, the Jews went through massacring villages of Palestinians.

And they didn't promise to cleanse it of Jews, they promised to drive the European Jews out of their land. There were already Jews living in Palestine, REAL Jews who were from the 12 tribes of Judea. The European Jews are not actually Jews because they are decendents from the Khazars, a tribe of people from the Caucases who converted to Judaism en masse in the middle ages. As you know you cant convert to judaism thus they are not Jews by ethnicity.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 13th, 2008 at 2:31am:

10. Virtually the entire Jewish population of Muslim countries had to flee as the result of violence and pogroms.

Thats absolute crap. Tell me then why is there a huge population of Jews in Morocco and Iran who live peacefully with the Muslims there?

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 13th, 2008 at 2:31am:

11. Some 630,000 Arabs left Israel in 1948, while close to a million Jews were forced to leave the Muslim countries.

Not true at all, lies..

They didn't leave Israel, they were forced out.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 13th, 2008 at 2:31am:

12. In spite of the vast territories at their disposal, Arab refugees were deliberately prevented from assimilating into their host countries. Of the millions of refugees following World War II, they are the only group to have never integrated with their fellow Muslims. Most of the Jewish refugees from Europe and Arab lands were settled in Israel, a country no larger than New Jersey.


Why should they have to settle in land which isn't theirs.. Give them their own land back and you can send all those Europeans to Jersey if you wish.
Back to top
 
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Malik Shakur
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 799
Auckland, New Zealand
Gender: male
Re: ISRAEL/PALESTINE
Reply #280 - Jul 13th, 2008 at 3:11am
 
Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 13th, 2008 at 2:31am:

13. There are 22 Muslim countries, not counting Palestine. There is only one Jewish state. Arabs started all five wars against Israel, and lost every one of them.

Thats not true at all. Israel has attacked the Arab governments subversively for many many years before any war happened. In addition to that the 6 day war was initiated by Israeli's.

Also, Jedi's do not have a state in the world yet.. They ranked quite highly on the census.. So how about we just give them their own country and give it from Australia's land. Shall we do that? Lets give them QLD. You ready for the force?

I might add that these wars that the Israeli's won were fought against dictators who wanted to appease their peoples discontent with them by attacking Israel. War doesn't last 6 days in Islam. It's either victory or death for us.

BTW, Israel got spanked by Hezbollah royally.. And they were only a guerrilla group!


Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 13th, 2008 at 2:31am:

14. The Fatah and Hamas constitutions still call for the destruction of Israel. Israel ceded most of the West Bank and all of Gaza to the Palestinian Authority, and even provided it with arms.

Yeah, the PA are corrupt lol.. That's why they were voted out by the palestinians in the elections.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 13th, 2008 at 2:31am:

15. During the Jordanian occupation, Jewish holy sites were vandalized and were off limits to Jews. Under Israeli rule, all Muslim and Christian holy sites are accessible to all faiths.

Jordan is a monarchy and not an Islamic State, what do you expect? Oh by the way, they're supported by the West too.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 13th, 2008 at 2:31am:

16. Out of 175 United Nations security council resolutions up to 1990, 97 were against Israel. Out of 690 General Assembly resolutions, 429 were against Israel.

oh I wonder why? you dont think their stealing of anothers land and complete and brutal oppresion of those people could have anything to do with it do you?

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 13th, 2008 at 2:31am:

17. The U.N. was silent when the Jordanians destroyed 58 Synagogues in the Old City of Jerusalem. It remained silent while Jordan systematically desecrated the ancient Jewish cemetery on the Mount of Olives, and it remained silent when Jordan enforced apartheid laws preventing Jews from accessing the Temple Mount and the Western Wall.

Jordan is a monarchy and not an Islamic State, what do you expect? Oh by the way, they're supported by the West too.
Back to top
 
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Malik Shakur
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 799
Auckland, New Zealand
Gender: male
Re: ISRAEL/PALESTINE
Reply #281 - Jul 13th, 2008 at 3:42am
 
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/nov/16/israel2

Not guilty. The Israeli captain who emptied his rifle into a Palestinain schoolgirl· Officer ignored warnings that teenager was terrified
· Defence says 'confirming the kill' standard practice


Chris McGreal in Jerusalem The Guardian, Wednesday November 16, 2005 Article historyAn Israeli army officer who fired the entire magazine of his automatic rifle into a 13-year-old Palestinian girl and then said he would have done the same even if she had been three years old was acquitted on all charges by a military court yesterday.
The soldier, who has only been identified as "Captain R", was charged with relatively minor offences for the killing of Iman al-Hams who was shot 17 times as she ventured near an Israeli army post near Rafah refugee camp in Gaza a year ago.

The manner of Iman's killing, and the revelation of a tape recording in which the captain is warned that she was just a child who was "scared to death", made the shooting one of the most controversial since the Palestinian intifada erupted five years ago even though hundreds of other children have also died.

After the verdict, Iman's father, Samir al-Hams, said the army never intended to hold the soldier accountable.

"They did not charge him with Iman's murder, only with small offences, and now they say he is innocent of those even though he shot my daughter so many times," he said. "This was the cold-blooded murder of a girl. The soldier murdered her once and the court has murdered her again. What is the message? They are telling their soldiers to kill Palestinian children."

The military court cleared the soldier of illegal use of his weapon, conduct unbecoming an officer and perverting the course of justice by asking soldiers under his command to alter their accounts of the incident.

Capt R's lawyers argued that the "confirmation of the kill" after a suspect is shot was a standard Israeli military practice to eliminate terrorist threats.

Following the verdict, Capt R burst into tears, turned to the public benches and said: "I told you I was innocent."

The army's official account said that Iman was shot for crossing into a security zone carrying her schoolbag which soldiers feared might contain a bomb. It is still not known why the girl ventured into the area but witnesses described her as at least 100 yards from the military post which was in any case well protected.

A recording of radio exchanges between Capt R and his troops obtained by Israeli television revealed that from the beginning soldiers identified Iman as a child.

In the recording, a soldier in a watchtower radioed a colleague in the army post's operations room and describes Iman as "a little girl" who was "scared to death". After soldiers first opened fire, she dropped her schoolbag which was then hit by several bullets establishing that it did not contain explosive. At that point she was no longer carrying the bag and, the tape revealed, was heading away from the army post when she was shot.

Although the military speculated that Iman might have been trying to "lure" the soldiers out of their base so they could be attacked by accomplices, Capt R made the decision to lead some of his troops into the open. Shortly afterwards he can be heard on the recording saying that he has shot the girl and, believing her dead, then "confirmed the kill".

"I and another soldier ... are going in a little nearer, forward, to confirm the kill ... Receive a situation report. We fired and killed her ... I also confirmed the kill. Over," he said.

Palestinian witnesses said they saw the captain shoot Iman twice in the head, walk away, turn back and fire a stream of bullets into her body.

On the tape, Capt R then "clarifies" to the soldiers under his command why he killed Iman: "This is commander. Anything that's mobile, that moves in the [security] zone, even if it's a three-year-old, needs to be killed."

At no point did the Israeli troops come under attack.

The prosecution case was damaged when a soldier who initially said he had seen Capt R point his weapon at the girl's body and open fire later told the court he had fabricated the story.

Capt R claimed that he had not fired the shots at the girl but near her. However, Dr Mohammed al-Hams, who inspected the child's body at Rafah hospital, counted numerous wounds. "She has at least 17 bullets in several parts of the body, all along the chest, hands, arms, legs," he told the Guardian shortly afterwards. "The bullets were large and shot from a close distance. The most serious injuries were to her head. She had three bullets in the head. One bullet was shot from the right side of the face beside the ear. It had a big impact on the whole face."

The army's initial investigation concluded that the captain had "not acted unethically". But after some of the soldiers under his command went to the Israeli press to give a different version, the military police launched a separate investigation after which he was charged.

Capt R claimed that the soldiers under his command were out to get him because they are Jewish and he is Druze.

Back to top
 
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Malik Shakur
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 799
Auckland, New Zealand
Gender: male
Re: ISRAEL/PALESTINE
Reply #282 - Jul 13th, 2008 at 3:43am
 
The transcript

The following is a recording of a three-way conversation that took place between a soldier in a watchtower, an army operations room and Capt R, who shot the girl

From the watchtower "It's a little girl. She's running defensively eastward." "Are we talking about a girl under the age of 10?" "A girl about 10, she's behind the embankment, scared to death." "I think that one of the positions took her out." "I and another soldier ... are going in a little nearer, forward, to confirm the kill ... Receive a situation report. We fired and killed her ... I also confirmed the kill. Over."

From the operations room "Are we talking about a girl under the age of 10?"

Watchtower "A girl about 10, she's behind the embankment, scared to death."

A few minutes later, Iman is shot from one of the army posts

Watchtower "I think that one of the positions took her out."

Captain R "I and another soldier ... are going in a little nearer, forward, to confirm the kill ... Receive a situation report. We fired and killed her ... I also confirmed the kill. Over."

Capt R then "clarifies" why he killed Iman

"This is commander. Anything that's mobile, that moves in the zone, even if it's a three-year-old, needs to be killed. Over."

Back to top
 
WWW  
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 53184
At my desk.
Re: ISRAEL/PALESTINE
Reply #283 - Jul 13th, 2008 at 10:05am
 
Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, Egypt, it's all one land for us, and that's how it was prior to the invasion, and that's the way it will return. there's never been any border between al-Quds, Damascus, Beirut, Amman, Cairo for us, it's all one land, and will return that way.

What are you waiting for?

You're not being realistic, you're suggesting a solution that suits your needs (ie. the needs of the West).

But I have no needs at all in the matter. Malik also thinks a two state solution is a good idea. Is he just being selfish as well?

God willing we'll unite the Muslims

What's stopping you?

The Israel of the Bible was a theocracy the Israel of today and zionism is a secular belief and a secular state.

So what? Would you only accept a theocratic Israel? Surely it's up to the Israelis how to run their state?
Back to top
 

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.
WWW  
IP Logged
 
mozzaok
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 6741
Melbourne
Gender: male
Re: ISRAEL/PALESTINE
Reply #284 - Jul 13th, 2008 at 11:05am
 
Malik, while I obviously agree that shooting a teenage girl is terrible, to seek to apportion blame purely on the side of the soldier who pulled the trigger, is unfair.

As long as Islam coerces females to wear clothing which obscures their identity, and allows them to secrete massive bombs inside this clothing, then it is not unreasonable to be defensive when confronted by a masked individual, whose whole upbringing has taught them that to kill for Islam, is a just and noble pursuit.

If you do not condemn the Islamic thugs who promote such violence, you are in no position to condemn soldiers trying to defend themselves from such violence.

It is a hideous situation, and outrageous atrocities are perpetrated in a vengeful manner by both sides, but as long as people remain wedded to an ideological position which brooks no compromise from the stated aim of, the extinction of an Israeli state, then real progress towards peace is always going to remain out of reach.

Israel is a state, and it is only in the deluded minds of Islamic fanatics that they will ever have the ability to change that fact, through acts of violence.

Men of peace do not seem to ever rise to positions of prominence or authority in the Islamic hierarchy, if indeed we could even call the uncontrolled mushrooming of zealot clerics as a hierarchy.
Unfortunately for Islam, and the world, every nutjob with a bomb in one hand, and a koran in the other, claims to be doing it for allah.
Back to top
 

OOPS!!! My Karma, ran over your Dogma!
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 ... 17 18 19 20 21 ... 40
Send Topic Print