Australian Politics Forum - ISRAEL/PALESTINE

freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 53184 At my desk.	Re: Martyr Mouse - RIP Reply #225 - Jul 10^th, 2007 at 4:01pm Judge something by the fruit it produces. Again, your judgement would be totally dependent on when you happened to be born.
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ex-member DonaldTrump

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Re: Martyr Mouse - RIP
Reply #226 - Jul 10^th, 2007 at 7:16pm

mantra wrote on Jul 10^th, 2007 at 8:53am:

Freediver has a point DT. Not that I've ever watched any violence if I could help it - but I know my kids used to watch plenty of it in so called innocent cartoons.

Take for example the Barbie Doll - how many American women look like one - obviously this is a way to get to children so they grow up with a preconceived idea of what they want to look like or how to behave when they are adults.

From what I remember many cartoons contained dark swarthy terrorists - before the word even became that popular. Most adults didn't think twice about it - but who knows what brainwashing lurked in the back of our children's brains.

I know Freediver has a point mantra, but let's face it... Barney the dinosaur... who target pre-schoolers as farfour the mouse does... does not contain political content to this extreme. Sesame street anyone?

I'm a pro at the media... this is nothing new to me. If girls play with barbies... fair enough... they wanna be thin.... etc.

The thing is... America haven't used blatant propaganda on pre-schoolers in TV for political purposes for a long time. Which is why sprint and skeptic or so keen on pointing out things which were created in the 1940's.

Sure... I can think of MANY adult examples of propaganda... for example the portrayal of Islam in a movie such as 'True Lies.' But as far as pre-schoolers... that's going a little far... as far as TV goes anyway.

Freediver and Skeptic are full of sh1t... aka... bigotry.

Whatever... I have no problem with Hamas using this mouse. Freedom to do what they want. My argument goes that America doesn't use this method anymore.

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freediver

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Israel
Reply #227 - May 14^th, 2007 at 10:57am

How did the nation of Israel arise? What should have been done instead? What should be done in the future to resolve the regional conflict?

Israeli PM seeks to expand Jerusalem

http://www.smh.com.au/news/World/Israeli-PM-seeks-to-expand-Jerusalem/2007/05/14/1178995029986.html

Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert says he will seek to expand the borders of Jerusalem and he hopes for eventual world acceptance of Israeli rule in the disputed city.

At a ceremony marking the anniversary of Israel's capture and annexation in 1967 of the city's eastern sector which Palestinians seek as a capital for a future state, Olmert said: "The past 40 years are only the beginning. I believe, hope and pray that we will continue to work together to strengthen Jerusalem, to expand its borders, to cultivate its foundations, to build its neighbourhoods."

Palestinians 'forced' to leave Hebron

http://www.smh.com.au/news/World/Palestinians-forced-to-leave-Hebron/2007/05/14/1178995053886.html

More than 40 per cent of Palestinians living in the centre of the West Bank city of Hebron, under Israeli control, have been forced to leave their homes.

And more than 75 per cent of their shops have shut down, according to a survey released on Monday by two Israeli human rights groups.

B'Tselem and The Association for Civil Rights in Israel said the exit of Palestinians from the centre of Hebron resulted from Israel's policy of separation between Jews and Arabs and hardships imposed on the local Palestinian population.

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« Last Edit: Jun 13^th, 2007 at 6:54pm by freediver »

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 53184 At my desk.	Re: Israel Reply #228 - Jun 13^th, 2007 at 6:55pm bump How did the nation of Israel arise? What should have been done instead? What should be done in the future to resolve the regional conflict? Discussion in the Tony Blair thread: http://ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1180610614/6#6
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Re: Israel
Reply #229 - Jun 13^th, 2007 at 7:02pm

from another thread

"in 1948 there were 1 million jews living in Palestine.

in 1948 there were approx 1 million palestinians in Palestine.

Palestine had never been ruled by the palestinians.

The british ruled it, and before them the turks, before them crusaders, and before them sarecens, before that the byzantines, then the persians then the Romans and before them shock horror the Jews. So the land belongs to a poeple who have never been soverign over it?

When the British left they left the country in the hands of both the land's inhabitants. It was the muslim palestinians who did not want to share the land as i showed above.

Tell me how the jews invaded a the palestinian land when no such thing existed?

tell me how the jews invaded Israel when they were already there?

even before the holocaust Palestine was populated by both Israelis and Arabs. The mass migration into israel by European Jews did not really begin untill Israel won the war in 1948. "

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freediver

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Israel begins freeing Palestinian prisoners
Reply #230 - Jul 20^th, 2007 at 6:49pm

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,22104565-23109,00.html

ISRAEL has begun releasing dozens of Palestinian prisoners as part of a US-backed deal to bolster Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas following the takeover of the Gaza Strip by Hamas Islamists.

Some of the 250 or so prisoners, mostly members of Mr Abbas's secular Fatah faction, boarded buses outside Kitsiyot prison in southern Israel.

From there they will be driven to the West Bank city of Ramallah to be greeted by Mr Abbas and reunited with families.

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ex-member DonaldTrump

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Re: Israel begins freeing Palestinian prisoners
Reply #231 - Jul 20^th, 2007 at 11:49pm

freediver wrote on Jul 20^th, 2007 at 6:49pm:

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,22104565-23109,00.html

ISRAEL has begun releasing dozens of Palestinian prisoners as part of a US-backed deal to bolster Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas following the takeover of the Gaza Strip by Hamas Islamists.

Some of the 250 or so prisoners, mostly members of Mr Abbas's secular Fatah faction, boarded buses outside Kitsiyot prison in southern Israel.

From there they will be driven to the West Bank city of Ramallah to be greeted by Mr Abbas and reunited with families.

I don't really trust the Israeli Government... so... I wouldn't be taking this article too seriously.

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Classic Liberal Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 769 sydney Gender:	Re: Israel Reply #232 - Jul 21^st, 2007 at 6:22pm they always release prisoners when they say they will, they have so many not a huge problem for them to release 250
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freediver

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Settlers removed from West Bank
Reply #233 - Aug 7^th, 2007 at 8:10pm

More problems caused by Nationalism:

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,22203564-23109,00.html

HUNDREDS of Israeli border guards moved in at dawn today to clear Jewish settlers out of two houses they were occupying in the West Bank flashpoint town of Hebron.

The border guards and other police surrounded the buildings where two families of squatters had barricaded themselves in, with the support of dozens of young ultra-nationalist Jews.

Israel's army said yesterday it sentenced several soldiers to one month's imprisonment for refusing to take part in the forced removal of the settlers.

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freediver

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Charity used 'terror' group to distribute aid in Gaza
Reply #234 - Jul 2^nd, 2008 at 1:28pm

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23955630-601,00.html

A SYDNEY charity has admitted channelling aid into the Palestinian territories through an Islamic organisation banned by Australia and the US for its alleged links to terrorism.

Muslim Aid Australia has used Interpal - an organisation proscribed by former foreign affairs minister Alexander Downer and declared a "specially designated global terrorist" organisation by US President George W. Bush in 2003 - to distribute medical aid in Gaza.

Interpal is a British-based humanitarian group also known as the Palestinian Relief and Development Fund. It has been cleared of terror links by the British Charity Commission but failed three years ago to have itsproscribed listing revoked in Australia, when lawyers for the group unsuccessfully petitioned Mr Downer.

When informed of MAA's relationship with Interpal, the Department of Foreign Affairs indicated it might refer the case for investigation. The Australian Federal Police last night refused to confirm or deny whether inquiries were already under way.

It is a criminal offence under the Charter of the United Nations Act for Australian individuals or organisations to deal with groups identified by DFAT's Consolidated List, which names banned groups and people. Breaching the act can result in a maximum 10-year prison sentence and fines of more than $275,000 for individuals and more than $1.1million for organisations, DFAT says.

Interpal was accused by the US Treasury Department in 2003 of using its global humanitarian missions as a "cover" for generating money on behalf of the Palestinian terror group Hamas. It has previously denied links to Hamas. A spokesperson for Interpal failed to return calls from The Australian or respond to a list of emailed questions.

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abu_rashid

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Re: ISRAEL/PALESTINE
Reply #235 - Jul 6^th, 2008 at 1:55am

Quote:

How did the nation of Israel arise?

When the British seized the Sanjak of al-Quds from the Ottoman Caliphate, they began transporting large quantities of Zionist settlers into the land. Up until that time, the land had been over 98% Arab and less than 2% Jewish for well over 1000 years and prior to that it was 0% Jewish for about 700 years, as the Christians forbade the entry of Jews into the land altogether.

The British and other European powers saw the creation of a foreign entity in the heart of the Middle East as a very strategic distraction for the new Middle East they were busy drawing up. If they placed a foreign entity in the middle of all the new states that would undoubtedly be created, they'd waste their time fighting it, instead of worrying about the colonial powers that were carving them to pieces.

Quote:

What should have been done instead?

Well Australia today has got about 1.5% Muslims, who'd suggest we should turn the majority of Australia into an Islamic state and give the rest to the people who are the 98.5% majority? I mean there's no alternative right? We have to give it to the Muslims!! cos they're almost 2% and all!

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What should be done in the future to resolve the regional conflict?

The foreign entity should be evacuated back to Lithuania and Poland and USA and UK from whence it came and the 98% allowed to resume their normal lives. After 60 years of hell, they deserve it.

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muso

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Re: ISRAEL/PALESTINE
Reply #236 - Jul 9^th, 2008 at 1:45pm

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 6^th, 2008 at 1:55am:

Quote:

What should be done in the future to resolve the regional conflict?

The foreign entity should be evacuated back to Lithuania and Poland and USA and UK from whence it came and the 98% allowed to resume their normal lives. After 60 years of hell, they deserve it.

After 60 years it's not quite that simple. Most Israelis were born there.
What about those Arabs who have assimilated into Israeli culture? What do you think should happen to them? They represent a sizeable portion. Some of them, particularly second generation only read Hebrew. They also speak Hebrew, but are mainly Muslims.

The vast majority of the 7.5 million people living in Israel have no contact with the countries you are suggesting relocating them to. In addition, it is very unlikely that they would be accepted if they chose to relocate there.

So who gets to stay and who should leave?

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abu_rashid

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Re: ISRAEL/PALESTINE
Reply #237 - Jul 9^th, 2008 at 10:50pm

Quote:

After 60 years it's not quite that simple. Most Israelis were born there.

Actually I think you'll still find the majority are not born there.

Quote:

What about those Arabs who have assimilated into Israeli culture? What do you think should happen to them? They represent a sizeable portion.

I wouldn't use the word assimilated. They live in their own land, they're under occupation as well, they're just on the other side of the fence.

Quote:

Some of them, particularly second generation only read Hebrew. They also speak Hebrew, but are mainly Muslims.

Where on earth did you get this from? They do read/speak Hebrew, but as a second language, they are primarily Arabic-speakers. Also just for the record, they speak Hebrew better than the Jews, because they actually have Semitic tongues, unlike the Jews who use Eastern European accents to attempt to approximate the often difficult Semitic sounds.

Quote:

The vast majority of the 7.5 million people living in Israel have no contact with the countries you are suggesting relocating them to

Not our business, they shouldn't have come to begin with.

Quote:

it is very unlikely that they would be accepted if they chose to relocate there

Yes they would, the Christian nations love the Jews now. Why can't they goto America? America seems to love spending all their money and security on protecting the Jews, let them do it in their own backyard. they can give them Texas, and Bush can be the first to hand his ranch over for them to live in.

Quote:

So who gets to stay and who should leave?

Anyone who agrees to live under Islamic rule and publically denounce Zionism as an evil Nazi-like ideology can stay, anyone else must go.

Simple

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abu_rashid Gold Member Offline Aussie Muslim Posts: 8353	Re: ISRAEL/PALESTINE Reply #238 - Jul 9^th, 2008 at 11:08pm Btw, here's a taste of how the Muslim kids growing up inside the occupation wall are feeling/thinking. As you can see they speak Hebrew, but Arabic also.
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muso

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Re: ISRAEL/PALESTINE
Reply #239 - Jul 10^th, 2008 at 10:43am

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 9^th, 2008 at 10:50pm:

Anyone who agrees to live under Islamic rule and publically denounce Zionism as an evil Nazi-like ideology can stay, anyone else must go.

Simple

Ok. So it's got to be Islamic rule? I think you'll find that there are a great many moderates in Israel who actually oppose Zionism. (The so-called secular Jews) If you (hypothetically) allowed them to stay, Islam would be a minority religion.

Would you seek to impose Islamic control against the wishes of the majority?

You have a very monochrome view of Israel. I've read about what happened to non-Muslims in Bethlehem under the 'benevolent supervision' of Hammas, Fatah and the various splinter groups. Have you?

The majority of people in Bethlehem were Christians up until relatively recent times. Now it's down to 15%.

A great many injustices have been done on both sides in that part of the world.

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