Forum

 
  Back to OzPolitic.com   Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
  Forum Home Album HelpSearch Recent Rules LoginRegister  
 

Pages: 1 ... 10 11 12 13 14 ... 40
Send Topic Print
ISRAEL/PALESTINE (Read 86177 times)
Classic Liberal
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 769
sydney
Gender: male
Re: Israel-- A ridiculously outnumbered 'victim?'
Reply #165 - Jul 4th, 2007 at 7:29pm
 
ex-member DonaldTrump wrote on Jul 4th, 2007 at 4:35am:
Classic Liberal wrote on Jul 3rd, 2007 at 6:31pm:
the soviets armed the arabs to a greater extent than the US armed Israel.

the israeli airforce had 200 aircraft the arabs had 4 times that, they also out numbered the israelies 2 to 1 in troop numbers. remeber the 1967 six day war was fought with Syria, Egypt and Jordan, with weapons also provided by Lebanon, Saudi arabia and Iraq.

the reason Israel has always been succesful is due the their far superior training and far better tactics. In 1967 they managed to destroy almost the entire arab airforce on the first day of the war before the arabs knew what was happening. The arabs had more weapons and better aircraft, they just didnt know how to use them.

The Israelis have always and continue to be outnumbered and out gunned, they are just better fighters.



I'm sorry Pender but if you don't give me statistics... I'm going to have to label you a liar.



fine i now have to go get out my books, grr.

i dont lie.

i will reply when i have them.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Classic Liberal
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 769
sydney
Gender: male
Re: Israel-- A ridiculously outnumbered 'victim?'
Reply #166 - Jul 4th, 2007 at 8:06pm
 
Israel: 264,000 troops, 197 aircraft. I think aruond 1000-1500 tanks

arabs 465 000, 2 880 tanks and 810 aircraft. this being the most accurate web based source.
http://www1.idf.il/DOVER/site/mainpage.asp?clr=1&sl=EN&id=5&docid=18924

i couldnt find israeli tank numbers on the net.

a book entitled "six days" by BBC journalist jeremy Bowen who is famously pro palestinian described the situation like this. (i chose this instead of a cource by and arab or Israeli).

"Israel and egypt had around the same number of tanks (etc)... but if Jordan and Syria were added the Arabs had a two to one advantage"

"In the air Israel and Egypt had the same number of fighters, but Egypt had four times as many bombers"

Bowen explains that Israel's force was mobile, well trained and well organized, he also explains that Israelis chain of command was very efficiant. The arabs on the other hand had were eratic and poorly run, hence why they lost.

So the arabs outnumbered and outgunned Israel, but inteligence and organisation won the day in this case. The outnumbered victum bites back aye.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Classic Liberal
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 769
sydney
Gender: male
Re: Israel-- A ridiculously outnumbered 'victim?'
Reply #167 - Jul 4th, 2007 at 8:17pm
 
i would also like to ad that Israels Fighters were predominently mirage IIIc's, produced in 1956 and  bought from FRANCE. while the arabs were equipped by the USSR with Mig 21's a more advanced aircraft.

Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
ex-member DonaldTrump
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Oh mere mortals, open
your eyes!

Posts: 1995
Overseas
Gender: male
Re: Israel-- A ridiculously outnumbered 'victim?'
Reply #168 - Jul 5th, 2007 at 1:56am
 
Thanks Pender. Sorry I doubted you.

I guess part of the reason Arabs lost was due to the division caused among their own ranks... and the failure of Arab Nationalism... which partly led to the rise of Islamism. The division between the Shiites and Sunnis was also a big factor.

NOW...

The Israelis had French aircraft. The Arabs had Russian aircraft. This is what your sources indicate. Further, my sources never indicated American arms donated to Israel pre-six day war... just money and lots of it.

Hasn't it been argued that western aircraft were highly superior to Russian aircraft at this time?  Huh I know the Russians had a better space program... but western countries had far superior aircraft... this was proven with the breaking of the sound barrier by Chuck Yeagar... etc etc...

I'm pretty sure this is the case.

And given that aircraft are considerd the most important weapon in war... don't you think this played a big factor?

Further, you didn't indicate how much ammunation each side had... how much medical staff they had.... how much resources they had... how much food supplies they had... etc etc.

US $$$ could have bought them things that the Arab army lacked and played a major part in victory.


I mean.... look at the recent Iraq conflict... America had far less of everything that the Iraqi army had... less men... less tanks... etc etc...  but America still killed em.' Why? Becasue 'quantity' doesn't mean 'quality.'

Just because the Arabs APPEARED to be superior doesn't mean they were. I think Jews have the uncanny ability to look like the victims when they are actually quite strong.

I REFUSE to believe Israel kicked Arab @ss THAT much becasue they had a better strategy. Btw... what's the name of that Israeli general who wore that eye patch at the time? I forget.
Back to top
 

Quote:
Tolerance is the virtue of men who no longer believe in anything
&&-- G.K. Chesterton
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 53184
At my desk.
Re: Israel-- A ridiculously outnumbered 'victim?'
Reply #169 - Jul 5th, 2007 at 10:00am
 
Blackbeard?

I doubt that 'superior western aircraft' applied to the French ones.
Back to top
 

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Classic Liberal
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 769
sydney
Gender: male
Re: Israel-- A ridiculously outnumbered 'victim?'
Reply #170 - Jul 5th, 2007 at 5:34pm
 
mirage III's were produced in 1956, and were heavily outdated in the six day war.
Mig 21's  were better planes, look on wiki Wink

France was not going o sell Israel their best aircraft.

alot of the funding for Israel pre 1967 (I am not sure post that date) was from private donations from the US, that is rich jews were guilted into donating money to Israel. The Israelis are quite open about this fact.

The reason i always refer to 1967 is that i know that period in detail, and have a lot of literatuure on it.

You are correct that pan arab nationalism did fail miserably, mostly because the arabs believed that Israel would buckle under their "superior" forces, arab media especially radio contiuesly stated that Israel was about to be destroyed by an invincible pan arab army. When Israeli forces turned out to be more than a match, the arabs retreated over and over again.

The hapless israeli victum idea was promoted by arabs more than anyone else.

NOW

these are the reasons why Israel won the war.

-Superior Training
-Superior Tactics
-Superior will to win
-Good relations between officers and troops.

The arabs had

- superior arms
- superior man power

but without the assets israel posessed these were useless.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 53184
At my desk.
Re: Israel-- A ridiculously outnumbered 'victim?'
Reply #171 - Jul 5th, 2007 at 5:56pm
 
The Arabs, like so many nationalists, are always falling victim to their own propaganda.
Back to top
 

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Classic Liberal
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 769
sydney
Gender: male
Re: Israel-- A ridiculously outnumbered 'victim?'
Reply #172 - Jul 5th, 2007 at 6:06pm
 
fortunatly australian nationalists dont fall into this habbit. our propaganda is based on fact Cheesy.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
ex-member DonaldTrump
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Oh mere mortals, open
your eyes!

Posts: 1995
Overseas
Gender: male
Re: Israel-- A ridiculously outnumbered 'victim?'
Reply #173 - Jul 5th, 2007 at 6:07pm
 
Classic Liberal wrote on Jul 5th, 2007 at 5:34pm:
mirage III's were produced in 1956, and were heavily outdated in the six day war.
Mig 21's  were better planes, look on wiki Wink

France was not going o sell Israel their best aircraft.

alot of the funding for Israel pre 1967 (I am not sure post that date) was from private donations from the US, that is rich jews were guilted into donating money to Israel. The Israelis are quite open about this fact.

The reason i always refer to 1967 is that i know that period in detail, and have a lot of literatuure on it.

You are correct that pan arab nationalism did fail miserably, mostly because the arabs believed that Israel would buckle under their "superior" forces, arab media especially radio contiuesly stated that Israel was about to be destroyed by an invincible pan arab army. When Israeli forces turned out to be more than a match, the arabs retreated over and over again.

The hapless israeli victum idea was promoted by arabs more than anyone else.

NOW

these are the reasons why Israel won the war.

-Superior Training
-Superior Tactics
-Superior will to win
-Good relations between officers and troops.

The arabs had

- superior arms
- superior man power

but without the assets israel posessed these were useless.


Hmm... I guess I need to do more research next time. It'd be interesting to know whether they still had bad aircraft during the Yom Kippur War, Suez War and the Lebanon Wars.

I'll admit I'm under-researched on actual equipment... but I'm still not convinced Israel won it on 'will' alone. But for the moment I have to give you the benefit of the doubt.

But don't worry... I'LL BE BACK!  Cool


Quote:
The Arabs, like so many nationalists, are always falling victim to their own propaganda.


How so?
Back to top
 

Quote:
Tolerance is the virtue of men who no longer believe in anything
&&-- G.K. Chesterton
 
IP Logged
 
Classic Liberal
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 769
sydney
Gender: male
Re: Israel-- A ridiculously outnumbered 'victim?'
Reply #174 - Jul 5th, 2007 at 6:09pm
 
will and tactics my friend.

pre emptive strike etc.

I am not sure of yom Kipper either.

Suez was before in 1956 i think, at that stage the Israeli airforce was abysmal, the elied on the french and English for air cover in that campaign.

the lebanon wars were not wars. small scale battles perhaps.

arabs fell to their propaganda, i just explained that.

Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
ex-member DonaldTrump
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Oh mere mortals, open
your eyes!

Posts: 1995
Overseas
Gender: male
Re: Israel-- A ridiculously outnumbered 'victim?'
Reply #175 - Jul 5th, 2007 at 6:12pm
 
Classic Liberal wrote on Jul 5th, 2007 at 6:09pm:
will and tactics my friend.

pre emptive strike etc.

I am not sure of yom Kipper either.

Suez was before in 1956 i think, at that stage the Israeli airforce was abysmal, the elied on the french and English for air cover in that campaign.

the lebanon wars were not wars. small scale battles perhaps.


Tactics... probably. 'Will?' I don't think so. The Arabs are a fanatical bunch.
Back to top
 

Quote:
Tolerance is the virtue of men who no longer believe in anything
&&-- G.K. Chesterton
 
IP Logged
 
Classic Liberal
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 769
sydney
Gender: male
Re: Israel-- A ridiculously outnumbered 'victim?'
Reply #176 - Jul 6th, 2007 at 10:30pm
 
ex-member DonaldTrump wrote on Jul 5th, 2007 at 6:12pm:
Classic Liberal wrote on Jul 5th, 2007 at 6:09pm:
will and tactics my friend.

pre emptive strike etc.

I am not sure of yom Kipper either.

Suez was before in 1956 i think, at that stage the Israeli airforce was abysmal, the elied on the french and English for air cover in that campaign.

the lebanon wars were not wars. small scale battles perhaps.


Tactics... probably. 'Will?' I don't think so. The Arabs are a fanatical bunch.


you obviously have never been to israel.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
ex-member DonaldTrump
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Oh mere mortals, open
your eyes!

Posts: 1995
Overseas
Gender: male
Martyr Mouse - RIP
Reply #177 - Jul 8th, 2007 at 9:19pm
 
My favourite character of any TV show, Farfour mouse, has been killed on Palestianian TV by an Israeli agent... Grin Grin Grin

Quote:
Mickey Mouse 'Twin' Killed On Hamas TV


Saturday, June 30, 2007

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip, June 29 -- A Mickey Mouse look-alike who preached Islamic domination on a Hamas-affiliated children's television program was beaten to death in the show's final episode Friday.

In the final skit, the character Farfour was killed by an actor posing as an Israeli official trying to buy Farfour's land. At one point, the mouse called the Israeli a "terrorist."      

"Farfour was martyred while defending his land," said Sara, the teen presenter. He was killed "by the killers of children," she added.

"Tomorrow's Pioneers," a weekly show featuring a giant black-and-white rodent with a high-pitched voice, had attracted worldwide attention because the character urged Palestinian children to fight Israel. It was broadcast on Hamas-affiliated Al Aqsa TV.

Station officials said Friday that Farfour was slain and the show taken off the air to make room for new programs. Station manager Mohammed Bilal said he did not know what would be shown instead.

Israeli officials have denounced the program as incendiary and outrageous. The program was also opposed by the state-run Palestinian Broadcasting Corp., which is controlled by Fatah, Hamas's rival.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/06/29/AR2007062902105....



You were too young to do die Farfour!!!  Cry

...

RIP mate.  Grin lol

Man... the funny part is... this show is 100% serious.
Back to top
 

Quote:
Tolerance is the virtue of men who no longer believe in anything
&&-- G.K. Chesterton
 
IP Logged
 
Aussie Nationalist
Ex Member
*****



Gender: male
Re: Martyr Mouse - RIP
Reply #178 - Jul 8th, 2007 at 9:25pm
 
Crikey!  bugger! ahwell, there's always Terror tubbies Grin
Back to top
 
Total anti-marxist and anti-left wing. The Right is Right.&&&&&&
 
IP Logged
 
ex-member DonaldTrump
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Oh mere mortals, open
your eyes!

Posts: 1995
Overseas
Gender: male
Re: Martyr Mouse - RIP
Reply #179 - Jul 8th, 2007 at 9:29pm
 
Quote:
Crikey!  bugger! ahwell, there's always Terror tubbies Grin


God .... I wouldn't be surprised if they did copy the teletubbies soon to replace farfour.  Roll Eyes


Have you seen the actual footage of that farfour show? Funny as hell.... in a disturbing kinda way.  Tongue
Back to top
 

Quote:
Tolerance is the virtue of men who no longer believe in anything
&&-- G.K. Chesterton
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 ... 10 11 12 13 14 ... 40
Send Topic Print