freediver wrote on May 15^th, 2007 at 5:05pm:


the Palestians lost their land and they want it back since they see themselves are being it's rightful owners. that's the reason they won't budge in peace talks, because they see themselves are the land's rightful owners, not because of the propoganda.

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make the best of the situation, u kidding right? the Palestinans are living in poverty, have limited freedom of movement in the land, limited freedom to trade with Israel & other Arab nations in the name of security and not to mention bad acts committed by Israeli military personnel.

in terms of sacrificing extreme demands, the difficulty arises in what to do with East Jerusalem, since that part holds religious significance to both sides and therefore cannot be split.

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do u realise that GI Joe was a WW2 action figure?

i used that as an example to show that every country involved in a war uses cartoons and/or toys to sell their goals to the youth.

freediver wrote on May 15^th, 2007 at 5:31pm:


mate, they had a country at one point (even if it was for a short while) - that land was forcibly taken away from them in a war. of course they are going to see themselves as it's rightful owners, even without the propaganda they would still hold that same view.

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They can't make the best of the situation as they are having extreme restrictions being placed upon them by Israel.

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how does that solve the problem? East Jerusalem hold religious significance to both sides and it can't split since the holy sites are within a close proximity to eachother.

freediver wrote on May 15^th, 2007 at 5:50pm:


i doubt it, such restrictions were in place from the very beginning when Israel first took over.

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the dilemma here is that the Jews and Muslims want to own their holy land as it was ordained by God and they are it's rightful owners. furthermore, having their holy land owned by members of another faith means that their holy sites may not be maintained and maybe even mistreated.

if the Palestinans and Israeli's stopped fighting, they still wouldn't trust eachother to maintain their holy lands up to an adequate standard, especially when some members of both sides wish to destroy the holy lands - for example, the Wailing Wall is the only remaining part of King Solimans' temple which right-wing Jewish groups wish to rebuilt, however rebuilding the temple means destroying the Dome of the Rock (which is the muslim holy site). therefore, the Palestians would be skeptical to just let the Israeli's have it.

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A bit of history for you, the Jews were in Israel several thousand years ago, however they were conquered by the Romans who expelled the majority of them from the land. They then spend a large period of time amongst Europe and were subjected to second-class citizen status in Europe - which resulted in pograms in Russia where hundred of thousands of Jews were slaughtered and 6 million killed in the Holocaust by the Nazis.

Naturally, following from the horror of the holocaust, the entire world felt sympathetic to the Jews and therefore decided to give them a state. obviously taking a chunk from Germany as compensation for the holocaust was out of the question since anti-Jewish sentiment was still high, so it was decided that they be given their holy land which is now modern day Israel.

Unfortunately, the United Nations neglected to realise that the suffering of the Jews was not the fault of the Palestinans. However, the Palestinans were made to give up a portion of their land, essentially punishing the Palestinans for the crimes of the Nazis.  

Furthermore, the Jews that had remained in Israel also developed a movement in the early 1900's aimed at establishing a Jewish state in the holy land. Their method was to launch strikes against British & Palestinan targets (Palestine was a British colony at the time). These strikes were aimed at both military and civilian targets and were essentially terrorist attacks. On establishment of the state of Israel, members of these terrorist organisations took up positions in the Israeli parliament.

Interesting, how terrorist attacks were used by the Jews to help them establish the state of Israel. 

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oh please, so the palestinans are a bunch of murderous, cold-blooded killing machines who have no human hearts whatsoever??

if they had their land, they would probably live in peace.  

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sorry skeptical is the wrong word to use, i should have said worried. and can u blame the Palestians for being worried? u have some Jews threatening to destroy ur holy site that u don't currently control. of course ur going to be outraged and would do what ever it takes to gain control of that holy site.

i also understand that the Israeli's would also be worried if the situation was reversed and they didn't control their own holy site. hence, the dilemma in splitting East Jerusalem.

ex-member DonaldTrump wrote on May 15^th, 2007 at 6:49pm:


okay, that's a better example but the point still remains, all countries participate in some form of propaganda when they are fighting a war - be in via cartoons, movies, newspapers, radio, etc.

this propaganda usually says "we are great, our enemies must be destroyed" or something alot those lines. the US did it during WWII, Hitler did it, and so are the Palestinans now.

i don't understand why we're outraged by the Mickey Mouse show, it's to be expected. We do similiar stuff in our propaganda and we have no problems with that.  

freediver wrote on May 15^th, 2007 at 6:56pm:


mate, again if the Palestinans got their land back and peace was able to be established, then i'm pretty sure they wouldn't be hell-bend on killing Jews.

ex-member DonaldTrump wrote on May 15^th, 2007 at 7:03pm:


Great way to label an entire population with one brush  

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true, but then again not all forms of propaganda are subtle, i remembered watching a bugs bunny cartoon where he was fighting hitler. it portrayed hitler as a bumbling, incompetent fool.

not really subtle either.  


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how about since they ceased becoming a state after the conflict in 1948.
it's not a conventional war in the sense that they don't have an army, but it's still a war.

u might call it a resistance movement.

freediver wrote on May 15^th, 2007 at 7:12pm:


Accepting the boundaries as they currently are means the Palestinans should just accept that they will never have a state.

That's not reasonable either.