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ISLAM [from multiculturalism board] (Read 74146 times)
AusNat
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Re: Muslim countries have low rates of adultery
Reply #120 - Jun 20th, 2007 at 5:15pm
 
Quote:
[quote author=skeptic link=1182257150/0#2 date=1182296717]Of course they would have lower rates of adultery, if a law is very strict and the punishment is severe then people would think twice about commiting crimes. 


Heres a punishment- Who ever cheats on their MARRIED partner, should be ordered to hand over not half, but ALL of his/her property/assets to betrayed partner.

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Re: Muslim countries have low rates of adultery
Reply #121 - Jun 20th, 2007 at 8:15pm
 
I can tell ya right now that this isn't the most original post in the world.  Tongue
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A "moderate" muslim country ...
Reply #122 - Jun 22nd, 2007 at 10:58pm
 
The following is not surprising, even non muslim ethnicities in Australia have and continue to follow such practices, where it comes to mixing with the Australian society.

Malaysia's shackles on religious freedom
David Hodgson
June 22, 2007

Can Islam be compatible with religious freedom? I certainly hope so, but doubts are raised by a decision of Malaysia's highest court, given a month ago. Lina Joy is a 43-year-old Malay woman who became a Christian some years ago and wished to marry a Christian man.

As a Malay, at the age of 12 she had received a national identity card specifying her religion as Islam. As long as her identity card stated she was a Muslim, she could not obtain a marriage licence to marry a Christian.

She applied to the National Registration Department to have her designation as a Muslim removed. The department required a certificate of apostasy from an Islamic court before this would be done.

Malaysia has civil and Islamic courts, the latter having jurisdiction over Muslims in religious and family matters. In most states of Malaysia, apostasy from Islam is punishable as a criminal offence by order of an Islamic court. Certificates of apostasy are very difficult to obtain. If Joy and her Christian boyfriend had children without marrying, the children could be taken from them to be raised as Muslims.

Before the court's decision Joy and her boyfriend had received death threats and were in hiding.

As a member of the United Nations, Malaysia is committed to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which states that: "Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief", as well as providing that "without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion" men and women have the right to marry and have a family. Malaysia's constitution provides that every person has the right to profess and practise his religion; although it does also provide that civil courts have no jurisdiction over matters within the jurisdiction of Islamic courts. Interpretation of the constitution is a matter for civil courts and, ultimately, for Malaysia's Federal Court.

By a 2-1 majority, the Malaysian Federal Court decided that the department's requirement of a certificate of apostasy was lawful. The two judges of the majority were Muslim and included the Chief Justice of Malaysia. The dissenter, Justice Richard Malanjum, is a non-Muslim.

According to the majority, the question whether Joy was or was not a Muslim was a decision for the Islamic courts, which had been given jurisdiction over issues of conversion to Islam and, by implication, had jurisdiction over questions concerning conversion from Islam. The Chief Justice was quoted as saying: "If a person professes and practises Islam, he should be following Islamic laws including his conversion or renunciation. That is what is meant by adopting and practising Islam. What the [department] did was to ascertain whether Lina [Joy] had renounced this religion. I do not see this as an infringement to freedom of religion. No one is stopping her from marrying. She is merely required to fulfil certain obligations, for the Islamic authorities to confirm her apostasy, before she embraces Christianity."

The dissenting judge considered among other things that the requirement that Joy apply to Islamic courts for a certificate of apostasy was unreasonable, as it would expose her to punishment for the criminal offence of apostasy.

How the criminal offence of apostasy can co-exist with the Malaysian constitutional guarantee of freedom of religion, especially if that guarantee is construed in the light of Malaysia's commitment to the Declaration of Human Rights, was not addressed. However, that offence exists, and the difficulty of obtaining a certificate of apostasy seems clear. As well, Joy was not shown to have voluntarily adopted Islam as an adult: her classification came from her birth as a Malay and was an automatic procedure when she was 12.

In light of this, the decision and the words of the Chief Justice are difficult to understand: that a highly intelligent and moderate Muslim could reason in that way raises the doubts about Islam's compatibility with religious freedom.

The decision was applauded by Muslims in Malaysia. But what do moderate Muslims in Australia think about it?

Suppose that there was a law enforced in Australia. which made conversion from Christianity a criminal offence, punishable by order of Christian tribunals.

Suppose that there was also a law that prevented a woman who had converted from Christianity to Islam from marrying a Muslim man, unless she obtained a certificate from a Christian tribunal that she was no longer a Christian, and that these certificates were difficult to obtain. I'm sure Muslims in Australia would find this utterly repugnant, and rightly so.

Do Muslims in Australia not think that the converse situation in Malaysia is similarly repugnant? Would it be possible for Muslim leaders in Australia, and in other countries with religious freedom, to speak firmly and clearly against the denial of religious freedom in countries such as Malaysia?

If they can and do, this would certainly help to show that Islam can be compatible with religious freedom; but if they cannot and don't, doubt must remain.

David Hodgson is a judge of the Supreme Court of NSW.
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Re: A "moderate" muslim country ...
Reply #123 - Jun 22nd, 2007 at 11:08pm
 
I've heard this is a huge problem in Malaysia.

I think I also read a stat somewhere that 98% of Muslims in Malaysia believe Muslims should not be allowed to change their religion.

I guess you could say the same for Christians in that they don't want other Christians to convert... but to say they 'shouldn't be allowed' is just a little... barbaric... fascist-like.


...


I guess that just shows how Muslims become once they establish themselves as a majority... ban other religions.
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Re: A "moderate" muslim country ...
Reply #124 - Jun 22nd, 2007 at 11:17pm
 
Donald, I find articles like this disturbing.

As a christian I am very hurt when another christian "changes".  I would far rather they did not. 
But, their choice.
It is quite rare, as compared to those who "change" from islam, despite the consequences.

Articles like this should be dropped from planes to the suburbia.
What distiurbs me is many people think muslims is "just another religion."
I wish it were !!
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Re: A "moderate" muslim country ...
Reply #125 - Jun 22nd, 2007 at 11:32pm
 
Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 22nd, 2007 at 11:17pm:
Donald, I find articles like this disturbing.

As a christian I am very hurt when another christian "changes".  I would far rather they did not.  
But, their choice.
It is quite rare, as compared to those who "change" from islam, despite the consequences.

Articles like this should be dropped from planes to the suburbia.
What distiurbs me is many people think muslims is "just another religion."
I wish it were !!


Sorry... I may have worded that last bit wrong.

I think Christians 'prefer' that Christians not convert... but they go, "oh well" when they do convert.

Muslims refuse to accept it though...  therein lies the difference.
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Re: A "moderate" muslim country ...
Reply #126 - Jun 22nd, 2007 at 11:43pm
 
I think Christians 'prefer' that Christians not convert... but they go, "oh well" when they do convert. 


Never heard of shunning?
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Political Animal has little moderation. It is the forum for free speech and free thinkers to converse passionately without the threat of being banned. It is a forum for adults.
 
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Re: A "moderate" muslim country ...
Reply #127 - Jun 23rd, 2007 at 12:32am
 
No... what's shunning?
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Re: A "moderate" muslim country ...
Reply #128 - Jun 23rd, 2007 at 8:47am
 
interesting it is against christian teaching to shun anyone...


tax collectors and prostitutes and all that
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Re: A "moderate" muslim country ...
Reply #129 - Jun 23rd, 2007 at 12:38pm
 
I knew a lesbian who was a mormon or SDA or something like that, forget which one. She attended her own excommunication. The reason she attended was that if she ever changed her mind and wanted to get back in, that would make it easier for her.
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I can't believe it-- Mozzaok on cracker
Reply #130 - Jul 7th, 2007 at 3:11am
 
Being a staunch multiculturalism bigot and Islam sympathizer, I was EXTREMELY surprised to read Mozzaok on cracker (Yes, I occasionally pop over there) saying:

Quote:
While watching a former friend of one of the accused UK "terror doctors" being interviewed, I could not help but be alarmed by the implications of his experiences, as he stated them in the interview.
He said how on reflection and with the wisdom of hindsight, he was not surprised that his former friend became a jihadist. Even more worrying was, the shaking of my own beliefs on what "creates" a terrorist. Like many others I prescribed to the belief that they were just reactionaries who had witnessed too much horror which they ascribed to the west and were just lashing out in response. He considers that to be naive and only a contibutory rather than a determining factor, belief in the principles of a supreme Theocratic Islamic state is, in his opinion a more demonstrable indicator to dtermine potential threats. The fact that he also described "potential UK based jihadists" as being, "two a penny", because they talked the talk, but would they walk the walk, was even more disturbing.


And better yet:

Quote:
I don't pretend to have the answers, in fact the more I learn the less sure I feel about anything, what do you guys think?


And still:

Quote:
Still interesting and does highlight the need for degree of moderation required to discourage cultural ghettos



Extremely surprising when you see someone as commited to the Multiculturalism 'cause' saying things like that. Either Beo is doing a really good job since I've been gone, or the patterns in current events that beowulf and I predicted have been consistent and cracks are beginning to appear in mozzaoks delusional self-assurance.

Has multiculturalism finally crossed the line? Is it on the ropes? Or is this a sign of multiculturalists re-thinking their strategies and realising their brainwashing agenda needs re-tinkering?
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Re: I can't believe it-- Mozzaok on cracker
Reply #131 - Jul 7th, 2007 at 11:29am
 
AWAKEN MOZZAOK!


Come to the winning side Cool
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Re: I can't believe it-- Mozzaok on cracker
Reply #132 - Jul 7th, 2007 at 2:42pm
 
I almost thought it said..I cant believe its not butter..

Yes I know

SHUT UP!!! Wink
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Re: I can't believe it-- Mozzaok on cracker
Reply #133 - Jul 7th, 2007 at 4:13pm
 
oceanz wrote on Jul 7th, 2007 at 2:42pm:
I almost thought it said..I cant believe its not butter..

Yes I know

SHUT UP!!! Wink


thats exactly what i thought!

i will go to cracker to read whats happening now.
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Re: I can't believe it-- Mozzaok on cracker
Reply #134 - Jul 7th, 2007 at 6:00pm
 
A lot of koran quotes have been posted in rooms like this. people are becoming more aware of what is in the koran. Sure initially they think myself and others like me are just christian muslim-bashers.

But facts are facts. Maybe the facts of what is happening in the world is being appreciated.
It is different when there are terrorist links from within Auss, from educated muslims.
Those facts support entirely what has been posted many times.
They support hilalis comments, they support various news items about muslims.
It is getting to be, there can only be one way it all makes sense.

mazzoak may be logically looking at it all.
And thinking ......... YIKES  (or words to that effect.)





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