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assimilation (Read 9986 times)
freediver
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Re: assimilation
Reply #15 - May 30th, 2007 at 1:21pm
 
I very much doubt Australians are aware of the immigration policies of the UN or supportive of them, freediver.

I don't.

The only reason Australians WOULD say they support the UN is because they're scared of being invaded by 'bigger countries' and want protection from the UN. 

That's not why I support the UN.

Did John Howard 'keep interest rates low' in his election promise last time?

DT, there are plenty of minor parties that would be the obvious choice for people who disagree with the coaltions support of UN refugee policy. They don't get many votes.
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ex-member DonaldTrump
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Re: assimilation
Reply #16 - May 30th, 2007 at 1:47pm
 
Quote:
I very much doubt Australians are aware of the immigration policies of the UN or supportive of them, freediver.

I don't.


Is that your argument, freediver?

If it is, then you don't have a leg to stand on.


Quote:
The only reason Australians WOULD say they support the UN is because they're scared of being invaded by 'bigger countries' and want protection from the UN.   

That's not why I support the UN.


Let's face it freediver, you don't represent the 'typical' political view of an Australian. I mean, you started a political discussion board for crying out loud. Not many Australians would share the same views as you, as you have strong views on certain issues. Most Australians distance themselves from politics.


Quote:
DT, there are plenty of minor parties that would be the obvious choice for people who disagree with the coaltions support of UN refugee policy. They don't get many votes.


Oh dear... then why didn't a party like the Greens get in? Who are strongly 'pro-immigrant?' Roll Eyes


Australia is a deeply traditional society in terms of voting. Look at the ALP, Liberal and National parties. They're the only three parties for the last hundred years who've had a chance at winning elections. The chances of minor parties getting elected are obscure.

This is an age of 'catch-all' parties. Not 'mass parties.' Or 'issue-based' parties.

Why would anyone want to vote for a party that reduces multiculturalism and immigration when a catch-all party can just do the same by saying, 'yeah we can do that too and make it one of our policies.'


Just because people don't vote these minor parties in freediver, means that they're supportive of the UN or immigration. It has more to do with tradition and the lack of organisation of a good minor party.


And by the way, what 'parties' are anti-immigration and anti-multiculturalism anyway?
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freediver
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Re: assimilation
Reply #17 - May 30th, 2007 at 1:59pm
 
If it is, then you don't have a leg to stand on.

That's OK, I can handle argumentum ad populum sitting down.

Oh dear... then why didn't a party like the Greens get in? Who are strongly 'pro-immigrant?'

Because the Labor and Liberal party are also pro-immigrant, so this particular issue does not give the greens much leverage.

They're the only three parties for the last hundred years who've had a chance at winning elections.

That refelects the nature of politics rather than the nature of public opinion. The major parties shift with public opinion. Sometimes they even dance around it to approach it from the opposite side to what they used to.

The chances of minor parties getting elected are obscure.  

Under our system the minor parties do not need to gain power to wield influence. The threat of them alone is enough to keep the major parties in check and the major parties would have to screw up pretty bad for a minor party to replace them. Compare this with the US system, which gives the major parties far more leeway to screw the people over, because it prevents the minor arties from gaining a power that refelects the public will.

Why would anyone want to vote for a party that reduces multiculturalism and immigration when a catch-all party can just do the same by saying, 'yeah we can do that too and make it one of our policies.'

They could do that, but they don't because the vast majority support immigration and multculturalism. You would vote for the minor party to force the major party to adopt the policy.

And by the way, what 'parties' are anti-immigration and anti-multiculturalism anyway?

One Nation. Pauline's new party. Probably the CEC. I don't really take much notice of parties like that, so there could well be plenty more.
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ex-member DonaldTrump
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Re: assimilation
Reply #18 - May 30th, 2007 at 2:15pm
 
Quote:
One Nation. Pauline's new party. Probably the CEC. I don't really take much notice of parties like that, so there could well be plenty more.


I don't think so. That's all we have. And the availability of anti-immigrant/nationalist/anti-multiculturalism party is not a reflection of how people feel about multiculturalism and immigration, believe me. They just can't seem to find the right people to represent them.


Quote:
Because the Labor and Liberal party are also pro-immigrant, so this particular issue does not give the greens much leverage.


Is that so?

That's my point though... at times... the libs can be both pro-immigration and anti-immigration. Same goes with the Labor Party. They just do whatever it takes to get elected. They're a 'catch-all' party, like I said. They're neither pro-immigration nor anti, they just do whatever the public wants, when they want it.


Quote:
They could do that, but they don't because the vast majority support immigration and multculturalism. You would vote for the minor party to force the major party to adopt the policy.


And yet... the popularity of the One Nation party in Qld in 1998 didn't influence the policies of the Liberal nor Labor party did it? At the time, the One Nation Party was the biggest threat the the Beattie Government... bigger than that of the Coalition. Did this change their policies? No, not really.


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Re: assimilation
Reply #19 - May 30th, 2007 at 2:51pm
 
I don't think so. That's all we have.

What about the Sustainability Party?

They're neither pro-immigration nor anti, they just do whatever the public wants, when they want it. 

Didn't this start with you and AN saying they didn't do what the public wants?

Did this change their policies? No, not really.

Some people say it did, which is what killed the party. Other's say people just changed their minds when they saw the ideology for what it was. You can't have a serious impact without sticking around. If there was public opposition to major party policies on immigration then parties like One Nation wouldn't die so spectacularly.
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Re: assimilation
Reply #20 - May 30th, 2007 at 3:18pm
 
Quote:
They're neither pro-immigration nor anti, they just do whatever the public wants, when they want it.   

Didn't this start with you and AN saying they didn't do what the public wants?


Haha. Clever Freediver.  Wink

I misworded what I'm trying to say.

They do whatever the public wants in terms of 'lying.' Half-heartedly doing something. They say they'll do it to please the public then after an election they'll change their minds. It's all about election wins.


Quote:
What about the Sustainability Party?


Sustainability what? Please excuse my ignorance.


Quote:
Some people say it did, which is what killed the party.


Well... I know the Libs later adopted some of One Nations policies, but I doubt this is what killed off the party.


Quote:
If there was public opposition to major party policies on immigration then parties like One Nation wouldn't die so spectacularly.


What about sending the parties leader Pauline Hanson to jail? And the parties so-called 'illegal regisatration?' I think the death of One Nation was more to do with that than anything else. Btw... last time I checked... One Nation still exists.

Furthermore... it wasn't 'public opinion' that 'killed' the One Nation party... it was pretty much the media.   The media unfairly tore the party apart. How is a party supposed to exist with that kind of media bias?
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freediver
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Re: assimilation
Reply #21 - May 30th, 2007 at 3:33pm
 
I didn't think it was unfair. If One Nation can't even get it'w supporters to see through 'unfair' coverage then maybe it isn't so unfair after all.

They say they'll do it to please the public then after an election they'll change their minds. It's all about election wins.

You can only do that for so long before voters switch to minor parties - permanently.

Sustainability what? Please excuse my ignorance.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/articles/sustainability-party.html
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