Australian Politics Forum - ISLAM [from thinking globally]

dee(Guest)

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Re: Isn't it ironic?
Reply #30 - Mar 17^th, 2007 at 2:09am

Skeptic when you made a Jesus comment I wonder how much the Islams would adhere/tolerate that?
I think its unbeliveable the Islams are coming about as they do. I don't necessary hate them but am suspcious. Who knows which middle easterners are extreme or not? The extremists usually go after innocents/bystanders so no wonder people are up in arms. It is their shock and awe strategy and is getting their message across to the world. I can't see to turn the cheek. It just not might necessarily be a religious war. And by the way it seems any group to get some kind of respect need to get violent for the masses to respect them. Are we all really civilized or uncivilized?

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Aussie Nationalist

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Re: Isn't it ironic?
Reply #31 - Mar 17^th, 2007 at 2:13am

Quote:

Skeptic when you made a Jesus comment I wonder how much the Islams would adhere/tolerate that?
I think its unbeliveable the Islams are coming about as they do. I don't necessary hate them but am suspcious. Who knows which middle easterners are extreme or not? The extremists usually go after innocents/bystanders so no wonder people are up in arms. It is their shock and awe strategy and is getting their message across to the world. I can't see to turn the cheek. It just not might necessarily be a religious war. And by the way it seems any group to get some kind of respect need to get violent for the masses to respect them. Are we all really civilized or uncivilized?

Nicely put DEE.
Why not become a member? Seems you have the brains for it.

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dee(Guest) Guest	Re: Isn't it ironic? Reply #32 - Mar 17^th, 2007 at 2:45am I think I will later. Thanks
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Aussie Nationalist Ex Member Gender:	Re: Isn't it ironic? Reply #33 - Mar 17^th, 2007 at 2:49am Why not! it costs nothing..................
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skeptic(Guest)

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Re: Isn't it ironic?
Reply #34 - Mar 19^th, 2007 at 8:45am

Quote:

Skeptic when you made a Jesus comment I wonder how much the Islams would adhere/tolerate that?

dee, why would muslims need to adhere to the teaching of Jesus when he said "turn the other cheek"?

my point is, we are a majority christian population and our society has been moulded by christian teachings. so why are we not using those teachings when dealing with potential terrorists?

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Gavin

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Re: Isn't it ironic?
Reply #35 - Mar 19^th, 2007 at 11:40am

Quote:

Skeptic when you made a Jesus comment I wonder how much the Islams would adhere/tolerate that?

dee, why would muslims need to adhere to the teaching of Jesus when he said "turn the other cheek"?

my point is, we are a majority christian population and our society has been moulded by christian teachings. so why are we not using those teachings when dealing with potential terrorists?

Okay, i get it, ur saying that muslims might not necessarily believe in "turning the other cheek" in accordance with their belief, whereas christians do. so it's up to christians to follow our own teachings when dealing with muslim terrorists.

is that right?

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skeptic(Guest)

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Re: Isn't it ironic?
Reply #36 - Mar 19^th, 2007 at 1:20pm

Gavin wrote on Mar 19^th, 2007 at 11:40am:

Quote:

Skeptic when you made a Jesus comment I wonder how much the Islams would adhere/tolerate that?

dee, why would muslims need to adhere to the teaching of Jesus when he said "turn the other cheek"?

my point is, we are a majority christian population and our society has been moulded by christian teachings. so why are we not using those teachings when dealing with potential terrorists?

Okay, i get it, ur saying that muslims might not necessarily believe in "turning the other cheek" in accordance with their belief, whereas christians do. so it's up to christians to follow our own teachings when dealing with muslim terrorists.

is that right?

Exactly. it's really weird that dee was asking whether muslims would obey the "turn the other cheek" rule, why should they? it's not their belief.

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sprintcyclist

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Re: Isn't it ironic?
Reply #37 - Mar 19^th, 2007 at 1:27pm

Hi Gavin and Dee, How are you both ?
From my knowledge muslims do believe Jesus existed.

As a christian, I am to turn the other cheek. I am also to tell the truth.
"Tunring the other cheek" is more aimed at individuals. Not as a nation.
Jesus always spoke on a personal basis.
ie, As a person, I should turn the other cheek if a muslim strikes me. The ones I know are pretty good, I see no need for that.
It is simulanously asked of me to tell the truth. ie, what I have leant about the muslim belief.
The belief does not necessarily reflect the individual people.

Jesus said to turn the other cheek when he was pointing out the differences between the Jewish law and His Way. ie, what God really wanted. See towards the end of Matthew 5.

Jesus came here to bridge the gap between man and God and to give us freedom from religion.

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Gavin

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Re: Isn't it ironic?
Reply #38 - Mar 19^th, 2007 at 1:31pm

Sprintcyclist wrote on Mar 19^th, 2007 at 1:27pm:

Hi Gavin and Dee, How are you both ?
From my knowledge muslims do believe Jesus existed.

yes, but their account of Jesus (and his teachings) is different to the christian version, so the "turn the other cheek" rule which is in christian teachings might not be in Islamic teachings.

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sprintcyclist Ex Member OzPolitic Gender:	Re: Isn't it ironic? Reply #39 - Mar 19^th, 2007 at 3:33pm Hi Gavin, Ah, sorry, I misread the posting saying muslims might follow the turn the other cheek directive. There is very little of Jesus in the koran. I doubt there is the turn the other cheek, or much else of anything he said or did. They follow mohammad. Funny sort of setup really.
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skeptic(Guest)

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Re: Isn't it ironic?
Reply #40 - Mar 19^th, 2007 at 3:45pm

Sprintcyclist wrote on Mar 19^th, 2007 at 3:33pm:

Hi Gavin,

Ah, sorry, I misread the posting saying muslims might follow the turn the other cheek directive.

There is very little of Jesus in the koran. I doubt there is the turn the other cheek, or much else of anything he said or did.
They follow mohammad. Funny sort of setup really.

actually sprintcyclist from what i gather from muslims i know, Jesus and the virgin Mary are mentioned extensively in the koran. the teachings of Jesus, according to muslims, centered on worshipping only one God without partners, which is the same as what Mohammed preached.

In terms of the teachings of "turn the other cheek" and other stories in the modern day bible, they believe that the original bible sent by Jesus has been distored by man after Jesus was raised to heaven. they do kind of have a point, especially when u have christians admit that some verses of the bible are not found in the original manuscripts, e.g. Mark 16:9-20.

so it's entirely possible that the "turn the other cheek" verses are a fabrication.

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Gavin

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Re: Isn't it ironic?
Reply #41 - Mar 19^th, 2007 at 4:14pm

skeptic, u know what, i think u have a point.
i had a look at those verses u mentioned and it states that these verses are not in the original bible.

i haven't thought about it that way before, but i guess it makes sense, if we are willing to accept some verses of the bible are distorted then we can't really call it the unchanged word of God.

it actually kind of brings the accuracy of the entire bible into question, since i didn't think u would change a letter of it as it is supposed to be the word of God.

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zoso

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Re: Isn't it ironic?
Reply #42 - Mar 19^th, 2007 at 6:04pm

Gavin wrote on Mar 19^th, 2007 at 4:14pm:

it actually kind of brings the accuracy of the entire bible into question, since i didn't think u would change a letter of it as it is supposed to be the word of God.

You realise this... NOW?

Not only is it a hand me down of a hand me down of a hand me down of a.... ad infinitium. It was assembled by a council of men with entire texts missing, the new testament was written entirely after the time of Jesus, some of it centuries. It has been translated so many times from different languages much of the original contexts have been lost. Example: originally translated into ancient greek (yes you heard it) the bible originally had two words for 'love' one meaning love as in general love for things, the other meaning love as in love between a man and a woman, this context was lost where we now have only the word 'love' and the onus is on the reader to decide on the context. Considering the vast quantity of Christian sects all with their own interpretations I'd say this is quite the problem!

Ok I'll stop being an @ss now... sorry for my outburst I didn't mean any of it and I'm probably all wrong. You're allright mate Wink

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sprintcyclist

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Re: Isn't it ironic?
Reply #43 - Mar 19^th, 2007 at 7:40pm

Hi skeptic, gavin and zoso,
How are you all ?

Skeptic - I have read bits of the koran myself. Found a copy in a few bookshops so had a lengthy "skim" through." There is very little mention of Jesus at all. It is all mohammad.
yes, the old testament was before Jesus. In the beginning of the new testament Jesus was there.
The majority of the new testamant was written after He was crucified.
Have you read the whole bible? Or even the new testament ?
I have never heard a christian say parts were not in the original manuscripts.
So how come christans "got it wrong" when they personally knew jesus, yet muslims "get it right", even though it was written 500 years AFTER Jesus was here in the flesh ?

Gavin - Be wary of what people lead you to. Look up "abrogation", there is a interesting bit about an unchanging word of God !

Zoso - Yes, most of the New testament was written after Jesus ascended to heaven.
have you read the WHOLE Bible ??
yes it has been translated many times. It is THE most popular book.
I can't read Aramic, hebrew and ancient Greek, so just as well it has been translated.
What about french, spanish or indian christians ?? They should have a Bible in their native language.
Every translation is taken from the original texts.

yes, there are at least 2 root words for the english word "love." The love between a man and God is different than the love between a man and a woman. Quite specific and correct.
All christians have the basic understanding of the Bible. We are not a sect.

My concordance has the root meaning for every word in the NIV bible.
Feel free to ask about any specific word.
I can give you the aramic, hebrew or greek original word and its meaning in english.

The message and story of the Bible is the same and unchanged.
From Genesis to Revelation. From when it was written till today.
It is to be read as one complete book.

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skeptic(Guest)

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Re: Isn't it ironic?
Reply #44 - Mar 20^th, 2007 at 8:22am

Sprintcyclist wrote on Mar 19^th, 2007 at 7:40pm:

Skeptic - I have read bits of the koran myself. Found a copy in a few bookshops so had a lengthy "skim" through." There is very little mention of Jesus at all. It is all mohammad.
yes, the old testament was before Jesus. In the beginning of the new testament Jesus was there.
The majority of the new testamant was written after He was crucified.
Have you read the whole bible? Or even the new testament ?
I have never heard a christian say parts were not in the original manuscripts.
So how come christans "got it wrong" when they personally knew jesus, yet muslims "get it right", even though it was written 500 years AFTER Jesus was here in the flesh ?

sprintcyclist, skimming through the koran and actually reading it are two different things. the koran itself is quite a large text and is roughly the same size as the New Testament, so i highly doubt u can make a comment about Jesus not being mentioned in it by just skimming it.

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