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Racist pub bans Arabs, Islanders (Read 18677 times)
JJJ(Guest)
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Racist pub bans Arabs, Islanders
May 3rd, 2007 at 10:28am
 
is this because of the anti-multiculturism movement or is it just plain racism? or is anti-multiculturism & racism the same thing?

i think it's a shame this has happened, can u blame ethnic groups not wanting to integrate into Australian society when Australians treat them this way. What if a Lebanese guy wanted to integrate and wanted to experience a few pints down at the pub? sorry mate, ur not allowed in because ur Lebanese.

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Racist pub bans Arabs, Islanders
Exclusive by Shoba Rao

May 03, 2007 12:00

SECURITY staff at one of Sydney's most popular pubs were ordered to refuse entry to patrons of particular ethnic backgrounds in a racist exclusion policy designed to cut crime.

The owner of Scruffy Murphy's Irish pub in the CBD admitted yesterday he had implemented a policy in 2005 denying entry to patrons of Middle Eastern and Pacific Islander origin.

Malcolm McGuinness told the NSW Equal Opportunity Tribunal the exclusion edict was introduced after police threatened to impose sanctions on his hotel after a series of incidents.

The publican and T&B Security Services director Tibi Brandusoiu are being sued by two would-be patrons of Pacific Islander origin for damages for racial discrimination.

Have you been discriminated against because of your background? Tell us via the feedback form below.

Mr McGuinness said the exclusion policy – introduced in November 2005 and scrapped early last year – was designed to prevent problems "related to gangs" and in "my viewpoint it was not discriminating".

"Once we implemented this policy, assaults were reduced," he said.

Samoan Benji Tupou, 31, of Maroubra, told the tribunal he was twice refused entry to Scruffy Murphy's in 2005 because of his ethnic background.

Mr Tupou alleged that on the first occasion, he was pulled out of a queue by a Polynesian security guard who told him: "Yep, no Islanders."

Five months later he tried again. This time he was approached by a member of the security staff who asked: "What nationality are you?"

When Mr Tupou replied: "I'm Samoan or Niuean", the bouncer replied: "Seriously boys, I don't know how to say this, but you guys can't come in to the hotel."

Asked why, the doorman exclaimed: "No Islanders or Lebanese."

Mr Tupou said he had been humiliated by the refusal. "It was belittling to be treated in this way. I was angry about how I was treated," he said.

Also giving evidence yesterday was Marcellus Cook, a New Zealand Maori, who claimed he was refused entry.

Lawyer David Hillard, representing both men, told the tribunal the hotel had made an "uncontested concession" that it breached the Anti-Discrimination Act by refusing entry to Mr Cook at a time when the exclusion policy was in place.

Bryce Cross, counsel for Scruffy Murphy's, told the tribunal that, in Mr Cook's case only, the hotel conceded breaching the Act.

"We have been consistent in the concession that persons not known to staff of Middle Eastern and Pacific Islander appearance were not allowed in to the hotel," he said.

The hearing continues.

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Sprintcyclist
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Re: Racist pub bans Arabs, Islanders
Reply #1 - May 3rd, 2007 at 11:15am
 
Is that illegal ?

Unfortunate but fact that Islanders on alcohol are a problem.
They are big strong boys, so when they fight, is quite something else.

I used to come from N.Z. , lots of islanders there. That has been my experience.
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JJJ(Guest)
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Re: Racist pub bans Arabs, Islanders
Reply #2 - May 3rd, 2007 at 11:30am
 
Sprintcyclist wrote on May 3rd, 2007 at 11:15am:
Is that illegal ?

Unfortunate but fact that Islanders on alcohol are a problem.
They are big strong boys, so when they fight, is quite something else.

I used to come from N.Z. , lots of islanders there. That has been my experience.


so just because Islanders are bigger it gives the pub the right to deny them entry.
being bigger doesn't mean that they are violent.

sure, people can get violent when they are drunk, but pubs are allowed to cut you off if they think u have had enough. that's what should be done, rather than denying them entry.

denying entry based on ethnicity is pure racism.
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Re: Racist pub bans Arabs, Islanders
Reply #3 - May 3rd, 2007 at 3:03pm
 
Quote:
is this because of the anti-multiculturism movement or is it just plain racism?


It's more anti-multiculturalism, IMO.


What caused the bans? Two options:

1) The way the Lebanese and Islanders acted?
2) Or the way they look?

I'd imagine it's the way Islanders and Lebanese tend to act that got them banned.

As Sprint illustrated above, Islanders seem to have a greater problem with alcohol than Europeans. And the easiest way to reduce the crime being committed in the pub was to ban the ones that have a middle-eastern/ Islander appearance (Which seems to be quite similar).

Are they banning Asians or Africans as well? If they were, then I'd call it blatant racism. But they're not.


And it's the fact that Islanders and Lebanese are easy to identify that gets them banned. It's not necessarily because they're 'racist' it's because it's just easier/efficient to do it that way.


Furthermore, they did allow Islanders into the pub, but only ones the bar staff knew personally. Also, the bouncer appears to be of Polynesian descent. This all tells me that this situation doesn't have the hallmarks of 'racism' but one of cultural clashes.
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JJJ(Guest)
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Re: Racist pub bans Arabs, Islanders
Reply #4 - May 3rd, 2007 at 3:32pm
 
ex-member DonaldTrump wrote on May 3rd, 2007 at 3:03pm:
What caused the bans? Two options:

1) The way the Lebanese and Islanders acted?
2) Or the way they look?

I'd imagine it's the way Islanders and Lebanese tend to act that got them banned.


when deciding whether or not to ban a person from a pub, the pub owners should look at the individual involved and determine whether he/she is likely to cause trouble (based on past experiences with that person).

to ban a person based on whether they are arab or pacific islander is unfair. imagine if u were a pacific islander or arab that just wanted a drink and that was ur first time at that pub? kind of unfair u get denied entry straight away based on ur race.
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Re: Racist pub bans Arabs, Islanders
Reply #5 - May 3rd, 2007 at 3:36pm
 
DT, that is pretty much a textbook definition of racism that you are trying to pass off as 'anti-multiculturalism'.
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Re: Racist pub bans Arabs, Islanders
Reply #6 - May 3rd, 2007 at 3:50pm
 
Quote:
DT, that is pretty much a textbook definition of racism that you are trying to pass off as 'anti-multiculturalism'.


How so?

Please explain your reasoning further.
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Re: Racist pub bans Arabs, Islanders
Reply #7 - May 3rd, 2007 at 3:52pm
 
You are judging people based on their race, not their individual merits.
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Re: Racist pub bans Arabs, Islanders
Reply #8 - May 3rd, 2007 at 6:11pm
 
There is some truth in what Sprintcyclist and DT say.  The publican wouldn't have made a decision to ban Islanders and Middle Eastern males for no good reason.  The police had threatened sanctions on his business and he had two choices - close down or ban  those he believed were causing the problems.

Obviously he had found the general behaviour of these groups anti-social and took the only decision possible.  In regard to the Islanders - many of the young males are generally lovely people and very athletic, but become extremely aggressive under alcohol.  The Arabic males may have been there to stir things up and this is not unusual in nightspots where there is alcohol and young people of different ethnicity and social habits.

What else was he supposed to do?

If the situation was reversed and the pub was owned by a Samoan or an Arab and young caucasion males were stirring up trouble, possibly the same ban would apply to them.
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Re: Racist pub bans Arabs, Islanders
Reply #9 - May 3rd, 2007 at 6:15pm
 
Poor management skills cannot be used to justify racism.
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Re: Racist pub bans Arabs, Islanders
Reply #10 - May 4th, 2007 at 12:01am
 
Quote:
You are judging people based on their race, not their individual merits.


The so-called 'racism' shown by the bar owners was only a symptom of multiculturalism, freediver.

Do you understand where I'm coming from? Huh
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Re: Racist pub bans Arabs, Islanders
Reply #11 - May 4th, 2007 at 10:02am
 
I think so. When racial problems crop up, you blame the existence of different races, whereas most people blame individual intolerance.

Racism does not always arise when races mix. It does always arise when bigotry and ignorance is rife, no matter how minor the 'racial' differences they pick up.

http://www.lyricsfreak.com/p/pulp/mile+end_20112224.html

nobody wants to be your friend / cause youre
Not from round here, / ooh / as if that was / something to be proud about. / the pearly
King of the isle of dogs / feels up children in the bogs. / down by the playing fields, /
Someone sets a car on fire I guess you have to go right down / before you understand just
How, / how low, / how low a human being can go.
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maille
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Re: Racist pub bans Arabs, Islanders
Reply #12 - May 4th, 2007 at 10:53am
 
Quote:
Sprintcyclist wrote on May 3rd, 2007 at 11:15am:
Is that illegal ?

Unfortunate but fact that Islanders on alcohol are a problem.
They are big strong boys, so when they fight, is quite something else.

I used to come from N.Z. , lots of islanders there. That has been my experience.


so just because Islanders are bigger it gives the pub the right to deny them entry.
being bigger doesn't mean that they are violent.

sure, people can get violent when they are drunk, but pubs are allowed to cut you off if they think u have had enough. that's what should be done, rather than denying them entry.

denying entry based on ethnicity is pure racism.



Not agreeing if its right or wrong but some pple on alcohol are a problem, it- the alcoholchanges them and they do get rough.

Its not right to be banned because of nationality  and it is a conception that some groups have more problems in this area than others.

Proprietors have a right to protect theyre property havingf said that.It would be great if we could be judged on our individual merit , but human nature is such that these poblems are bound to happen.Wether its right or wrong, race issues will always drive certain decisions.


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Re: Racist pub bans Arabs, Islanders
Reply #13 - May 4th, 2007 at 3:19pm
 
freediver wrote on May 4th, 2007 at 10:02am:
I think so. When racial problems crop up, you blame the existence of different races, whereas most people blame individual intolerance.

Racism does not always arise when races mix. It does always arise when bigotry and ignorance is rife, no matter how minor the 'racial' differences they pick up.

http://www.lyricsfreak.com/p/pulp/mile+end_20112224.html

nobody wants to be your friend / cause youre
Not from round here, / ooh / as if that was / something to be proud about. / the pearly
King of the isle of dogs / feels up children in the bogs. / down by the playing fields, /
Someone sets a car on fire I guess you have to go right down / before you understand just
How, / how low, / how low a human being can go.


Freediver, did you just ignore my point completely and go off on your own tangent?  Huh
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Re: Racist pub bans Arabs, Islanders
Reply #14 - May 4th, 2007 at 3:36pm
 
Not as far as I can tell. Maybe I did misunderstand you.
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