Penalties arent a deterrent... most crims believe they will never get caught!

I'm pretty sure it is enough to stop them coming armed. Most crims are there to steal something, not get into a fight.

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What are you basing this off?

Fair enough. I know too little about this topic to make a good judgement.

I think long guns should be widely available and unrestricted. I believe pistols should be widely available and slightly restricted, with permits issued on the spot providing you have no history of mental illness, dishonesty or violent crime. Extra permit required to concealed carry the pistol, but must be issued providing the applicant meets the basic requirements and also does a defensive pistol shooting course.

No gun registration what so ever. It does nothing except tell you where the guns are that are never going to be used in a crime, and cost a hell of a lot of money.

If everybody had guns, home invasions would go down, just like they were pre-96. No criminal is so fearless that they will arm themselves to take on an armed resident over a TV and VCR. It's not worth it to them. Criminals are opportunistic, they will not pick the hard target.

Not only do guns in the hands of private citizens give them a means of self defence, it also does the greatest thing for the population imaginable. It gives them a way to resist tyranny if it becomes necessary. This is why governments truly hate guns. They know it doesn't do anything for crime rates to ban guns. If I wanted to kill my defacto (for instance, I am not in a defacto relationship) because she cheated on me with my with my best mate, and I didn't have a gun, I could just go to the kitchen and grab a carving knife.

Banning guns does not change personalities or instantly make everyone sane.

At the moment guns are extremely readily available, just look at all the shootings and rocket launchers and explosives and FULL AUTOMATIC machine guns (which were never legal, so it's not like they weren't handed in) turning up in the hands of criminal gangs. Look at the current affairs programs who send investigative journalists in to pubs to come out with an illegal handgun that was illegally imported and NOT stolen off a licensed owner in less than half an hour.

Before 96 we never had the issues with guns that we do now. How often did you hear about a drive by back in the day?

There is more gun crime out there than goes reported. Go ask a ER nurse at a hospital in a crime hotspot how many people come in with gun shot wounds and how many of them cooperate with the police.

Personally, I don't have a vested interests in firearms, I am not in the industry nor do I have a gun license or regularly go shooting.

I have done a fair bit of shooting in the past though.

However, I do have a vested interest in freedom, and because of this I encourage everyone I meet to get involved in shooting sports.

In strange times such as those we are living, I cannot understand why anyone would be anti gun, unless they are a muppet who refuses to look at the facts and gets taken for a ride by spin doctors, or a politician who wants to make sure the will of the people will never overcome.

What makes these times so special?

How about the restrictions of freedom and expression being imposed on us by current regimes around the world? Or politicians deliberately misleading the public in order to go to war? Or the ever increasing use of violence in the community and people taking psychotic drugs? Or giving God powers to corporations? Or terrorism? Or the ever increasing violent crime rate?

Kids are not going to be shooting each other. It very, very rarely happens even in 'gun crazy' America. The onus is on the parent and the education system to teach the children right from wrong and not to touch the guns unless an adult is present. Teach people to respect human life, like our society used to be, when guns WERE freely available, and we will have no issues. People will still kill each other, sure, but not over petty poo as frequently as they do now.

I grew up in a household full of guns, and I was what you would call a problem child, and I never shot anyone or threatened to do so.

Please show me where in Australia firearms have increased the homicide rate, or banning guns has reduced it. Don't tell me that after guns were banned the rate went down and use that as your justification. I will not disagree that the rate went down, but it was going down consistently for years before that.

Use your own mind, do your own research, do some source checking and then see for yourself just how much deception is out there in regards to the firearm issue.

Gun deaths might go down after gun ownership is restricted, but have a look at how many of them are suicides, and then look at the suicide rate which doesn't change.

Also, if one year in Victoria there are 6 people shot and killed, compared to 4 the next year when all guns knives and scissors are banned, would we see in the headlines 'GUN MURDERS DOWN 33%! NEW LAWS TO THANK'? Probably. Statistics like that are very easy to manipulate when you are working with such a small occurance of event.

How about the restrictions of freedom and expression being imposed on us by current regimes around the world? Or politicians deliberately misleading the public in order to go to war?

You think this is something new?

Or the ever increasing use of violence in the community and people taking psychotic drugs? Or the ever increasing violent crime rate?

Our society is more peaceful now than it has ever been.

Kids are not going to be shooting each other.

That's what happens in America, which is armed to the teeth.

It very, very rarely happens even in 'gun crazy' America.

You're right, more often it's the druggies that shoot people. That doesn't make the victims feel any better.

The onus is on the parent and the education system to teach the children right from wrong and not to touch the guns unless an adult is present.

Passing the buck. The onus is also on the government to make sure handguns are not easily available. On the one hand you complain about the government encroaching on our freedoms and lieing to us, but on the other you expect the government to tell our children what to think.

I will not disagree that the rate went down, but it was going down consistently for years before that.

What about the rate at which it went down. And doesn't that contradict your earlier claims about 'these violent times'?

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Have a closer look mate. www.abs.gov.au

Our society has a higher rate of violent crime than the US, per capita. Things such as rape, assault etc.

I also don't think the bad things happening are something new, but when they are happening in formerly liberty loving countries, it does give some cause for concern, especially when governments are streamlining their efforts at population control.

The onus isn't on the government to restrict weapons. I don't know about you, but I don't really like it when people decide what is good for me without me having a say in my own personal welfare. That's why I don't like communism or fascism. I generally give people more credit than that, feel we are intelligent beings who do not require such babysitting. Sure you need a government to run the country, but the people should run the people AND the government.

OCEANS:
The decision to shoot someone is not one you take lightly. You should only shoot someone if your life is in immediate danger. If a robber arrives at your house you point the weapon at them and tell them to stop. If they run away, you go back to bed, if they don't, you tell them to get on their face and ring the police.

Never shoot to wound, as I said only shoot if your welfare is in immediate danger. In that instance, shoot to kill. You shoot someone in the balls they can still kill you. Aim for the torso and just let rip till they fall over.

I expected you to come to your own informed conclusions without trusting the word of a stranger or relying on spin.

We have far less freedom than ever before. In regards to everything. Laws are constantly made, not revoked. I don't even need to provide you with examples because this is just common sense, but I guess it isn't all that common is it?

I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but you really need to do some of your own thinking and look at statistics objectively rather than just relying on using emotion or someone else's ideas which are not logical arguments to come to conclusions.