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ex-member DonaldTrump

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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #15 - Feb 26^th, 2007 at 12:05am

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DT, you have no respect for the indigenous population (your Abo reference is offensive).

I have the UTMOST respect for the Aboriginal community. Don't jump to conclusions, Aushole.
I wish they were better off, and as the seemingly original people to occupy Australia (There has been some debate), I hope that their culture and people thrive in the near future. That's my official stance on Aboriginals.

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(your Abo reference is offensive)

Oh diddums!

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What have they done to you?

Apart from being racist and rude to me in person because I have a European appearance... not a thing (Yes aushole, Aborginals CAN be racist).

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Have you ever sat down with an Aboriginal elder and spoken about how his family was broken up by slave traders (in the 19th Century) or by the Protector up until the 1970s?

I have had the 'pleasure' of speaking with ONE aboriginal elder, and he was one of the most rudest and ignorant people I have EVER spoken to over the phone. Although, I wasn't asking about the subject matter you suggested, I was talking about Aboriginal child abuse (This was a University project).

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Saying sorry is not admitting that you were to blame for the attrocity, it means that you understand what has happened

If that's the case... can't I just say 'I understand' instead and continue living my life?

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and express allegiance with their cause.

What exactly IS their 'cause,' aushole?

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I live in a town where a third of the population is indigenous. Does it strike you as a problem when most of them live in poverty? That their lifespan is barely half of yours? Do you think they enjoy living with the stigma of being bludgers?

Yes. It's a problem. A BIG problem. How would you suggest to solve it? More Government handouts? More apologies?

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Most of the aboriginal people I have met are kind and considerate, and have a greater respect for their family than a majority of Australians. The problem is that they are treated like second class citizens, given no opportunity to succeed, and are manipulated by bureaucrats. Is it any wonder they turn to alcohol and start beating each other?

Drawing from my experience with Aboriginals, aushole, that is TOTAL and utter garbage.

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No decent elder wants compensation. They want recognition that Australia, as a democratic country and a signatory to the UN, committed crimes against its own people.

'Recognition.' What does that mean, exactly?
As far as I know, past Australian PM's have apologised on behalf of Australia... Bob Hawke, Gough Whitlam... etc etc. What difference will another acknowledgement make? Huh

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Tolerance is the virtue of men who no longer believe in anything

&&-- G.K. Chesterton

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freediver

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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #16 - Feb 26^th, 2007 at 10:57am

What difference will another acknowledgement make?

For starters it will raise awareness of our recent history and allow the general public to put current political debate in context. I think that the treatement of aboriginies should be taught to high school students so that young people don't think they are living in a society that has treated aboriginies fair for generations and thus conclude (as too many do) that they bear all the responsibility for their problems.

Plus, we should pay back what was taken from them, especially if they are still alive.

Our debt to Pauline: http://ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1172041500#10

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« Last Edit: Feb 27^th, 2007 at 11:14am by freediver »

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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ex-member DonaldTrump

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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #17 - Feb 26^th, 2007 at 1:43pm

Quote:

For starters it will raise awareness of our recent history and allow the general public to put current political debate in context. I think that the treatement of aboriginies should be taught to high school students so that young people don't think they are living in a society that has treated aboriginies fair for generations and thus conclude (as too many do) that they bear all the responsibility for their problems.

Plus, we should pay back what was taken from them, especially if they are still alive.

Jesus christ. Roll Eyes

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Tolerance is the virtue of men who no longer believe in anything

&&-- G.K. Chesterton

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aloof boof

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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #18 - Feb 26^th, 2007 at 2:12pm

ex-member DonaldTrump wrote on Feb 26^th, 2007 at 1:43pm:

Quote:

For starters it will raise awareness of our recent history and allow the general public to put current political debate in context. I think that the treatement of aboriginies should be taught to high school students so that young people don't think they are living in a society that has treated aboriginies fair for generations and thus conclude (as too many do) that they bear all the responsibility for their problems.

Plus, we should pay back what was taken from them, especially if they are still alive.

Jesus christ. Roll Eyes

jesus H christ

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constantly surrounded by mt beer cans

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auzgurl Ex Member	Re: Saying sorry Reply #19 - Feb 26^th, 2007 at 9:00pm Aussie Nationalist... It REPRESENTS MINE!!!!" ============================ Well you can be the proud owner of that one....it sure is a dubious honour!!!
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ex-member DonaldTrump Gold Member Offline Oh mere mortals, open your eyes! Posts: 1995 Overseas Gender:	Re: Saying sorry Reply #20 - Feb 27^th, 2007 at 2:35am Quote: jesus H christ Nice one. My mistake. Jesus H Christ.
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aloof boof Full Member Offline the roving ear Posts: 134 outback Gender:	Re: Saying sorry Reply #21 - Feb 27^th, 2007 at 7:17am Hey Auzgurl,have you ever had any close contact with aboriginies?.I mean from reading what you write i dont think you understand what its like to be burgaled,bashed,abused or discriminated against by drunken aboriginals.If you had you might understand other peoples views on some of them
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mantra

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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #22 - Feb 27^th, 2007 at 9:29am

AUSHole -

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Mantra, that is a ridiculous statement, and racist. Humans can adapt to any environment, as DT pointed out. His grandfather survived on swill for 5 years!

I certainly don't believe I'm racist, but do believe that those aboriginals who live in the outskirts of civilisation haven't had the opportunity or even desire to live as we do. We have imposed our will and our behaviour on these people and demanded they be like us.

This is why we should apologise:

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In fact the loss of traditional lands, food sources and water resources was usually fatal, particularly to communities already weakened by disease. Additionally, Indigenous Australians groups had a deep spiritual and cultural connection to the land, so that in being forced to move away from traditional areas, cultural and spiritual practices necessary to the cohesion and well-being of the group could not be maintained. Unlike in New Zealand, no treaty was ever entered into with the indigenous peoples entitling the Europeans to land ownership. Proximity to settlers also brought venereal disease, to which Indigenous Australians had no tolerance and which greatly reduced indigenous fertility and birthrates. Settlers also brought alcohol, opium and tobacco; substance abuse has remained a chronic problem for indigenous communities ever since.

The combination of disease, loss of land and direct violence reduced the Aboriginal population by an estimated 90% between 1788 and 1900. The indigenous people in Tasmania were particularly hard-hit, with the last full-blood indigenous Tasmanian, Truganini, dying in 1876, although a substantial part-indigenous community survived

Have you heard of genetic psychology? I certainly believe it has it's merits and is applicable to many aboriginals who have lived through and by the culture of their parents, grandparents and greatparents, etc.

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The histories of culture and psychogenesis, while closely related, are not one and the same. Each individual bears the mark of the culture that governs his existence and imposes itself on his activity. The language he acquires from it moulds his thoughts and structures his understanding. His movements are governed by the instruments his language puts into his hands. The organisation of the family and the relations between children and adults, between the sexes, between individual and collectivity-all impose more or less rigid frameworks upon the individual’s affectivity; they impose imperatives and prohibitions that can profoundly influence the individual’s constitution

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auzgurl

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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #23 - Feb 27^th, 2007 at 11:39am

AUShole

"The problem is that when they have followed the "rules and regulations" in the past, they have been shafted. There is a belief that it will happen again. We cannot move forward until Australia offers an apology for breaking its own rules."

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This is exactly the point and thank you for pointing it out...

The fact that Indidgenous pple are being referred to as Abos on here is ignorant and unnecssary.
Not too mention other 'instances, of deliberate racist remaks and depiction, which some seem to be proud of.

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auzgurl

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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #24 - Feb 27^th, 2007 at 11:40am

AUShole

"The problem is that when they have followed the "rules and regulations" in the past, they have been shafted. There is a belief that it will happen again. We cannot move forward until Australia offers an apology for breaking its own rules."

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=

This is exactly the point and thank you for pointing it out...

The fact that Indidgenous pple are being referred to as Abos on here is ignorant and unnecssary.
Not too mention other 'instances, of deliberate racist remaks and depiction, which some seem to be proud of.

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auzgurl

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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #25 - Feb 27^th, 2007 at 12:04pm

boof aloof...

I dont call these veiws..I call it ignorant 'abo' bashing..

"Hey Auzgurl,have you ever had any close contact with aboriginies?.I mean from reading what you write i dont think you understand what its like to be burgaled,bashed,abused or discriminated against by drunken aboriginals.If you had you might understand other peoples views on some of them"
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Come on..dont we need to use our own brains at all when it comes to issues of humanity?

These pple were here for over 40 thousand years..all they want is a little courtesy extended to them..for the invasion of theyre country..ie: it was not nice we came here, dispossessed you and now we put our boots to the back of your heads and push your faces in the dirt for the last 200 hundred years.

Kept on reserves out of sight..no jobs in mainstream society =no hope for a future. Why are they not afforded the same human rights and respect as anyone else here, even immigrants are respected way above the avreage Indigenous person.

Dying from diseases that only exist in 3rd world countries and in fact the death rate here from preventable disease is the highest in the world. Is this the lucky country for Indigenous pple in their country.?

The threads I see put up and the wqy in which I see they are referred to..'abo'..Centrelink flags-and bashing in general makes me see something I cannot be a part of or proud of. The contempt for these ppl is overwhemingly based in ignorance.

Yes I do have close contact with Indigenous pple..my sister is married to a Kimberley man..he is wonderful hard working- and a loving and forgiving spirit., even though he is asked to leave hotels where ther is supposedly a 'dress code' when all the white guys in there are dressed excatly the same as he. He is black and they see nothing else.

The town where I live is very troubled by alcholism by local Aborigines and vilonence follows on from there unfortunately.. and it is hard to see and tolerate soemtimes....

But I am not so one eyed I cannot see that there are deep and complex issues underlying these social problems.

For every drunk black man ..living out his public misery..there are 100 who dont..they are not seen and so the media only picks up on the visibilty. Makes for good headlines and yes will sell a story or 2...Media greed and bias..and the public is just sucking it up its clear by these forum comments.

Diseases bought in by pioneers to begin with, diseases they had no immunity to.

If we are going to comment at all on this serious topic, we need to resist the urge to get on the 'flog the blackfella bandwagon'..

Will it make us a bigger man ..a better person to do so??

If so how small and invisible did you feel?

Giving the black man a fair go comes down to common decency really...is there any left.

Yes some..but not anywhere near enough to redress the problems they face.

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« Last Edit: Feb 27^th, 2007 at 12:14pm by N/A »

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auzgurl

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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #26 - Feb 27^th, 2007 at 12:24pm

Boof aloof....

" Most of the Muslims i know are nice easy going people who have different beliefs to me.However the hardliners i see on TV are the exact opposite."

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It would if you could make the same concession for Indigenouspple as you are prepared to make for Muslims..foreigners !!!!

They suffer from long, frequent and sustained media discrimination and beatups!!!!!

Because of this they suffer the half baked 'veiws' I have read on here.

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aloof boof

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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #27 - Feb 27^th, 2007 at 12:32pm

I was born and bred in the outback auzgurl and i have seen the best and worst of behaviour by indigenous people.But that was not my point,read my post again,i stated that other people have been abused and robbed etc and that is the view they have.Everyone is entitled to their opinion aren't they?
One more thing i will ask you
You say you live in a town that has problems with drunks.What is your solution to that.I am from Alice Springs were public drunkeness is common place.The authorities tried restricting sales,restricting hours of sale etc etc and everybody is up in arms about it.What can you do?Down the road a bit in Marla Bore an aboriginal cannot buy grog from the hotel by law,not the whitefella law,the blackfella law and it has stopped a lot of trouble.Is this ok by you?? to stop sales completely or isnt that fair.Alcohol is detroying indigenous people and culture every day but according to you they must have the same rights.And it is killing them Roll Eyes

What would you do

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auzgurl

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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #28 - Feb 27^th, 2007 at 2:10pm

Aloof...

please do not put words in my mouth...

I never said they must have the same rights..never mentioned any such thing. The whys and wherefors of aclcholism re- Indigenous pple is not something I touched upon at all, except to say there were some alcholic INd. pple.They are so far behuind in terms of rights that that statement would men very little if anything at all!!!

I am just fed up with sweeping racist generalisations about Ind. pple. It further oppresses a pple so far down the food chain it disgusts me.

Sure there is an alcohol problem, and sure IT IS killing them and theyre communities..but the grog problem wil be solved only by communities and Governments who actually legislate in the interests of the pple and who actually give a poo. So far very little evidence of that .

I was born and bred in the outback too, for the most part and I too have seen how it works..Its the reason I understand as much as I do.

No jobs for INd. in the outback..except if you work on a station or for an indigenous" work incentive scheme"..local bus. not interested employing them as ..they put customers off. So jobs are very limited and as a result dole recipients are high. If you live in the outback you would know this. I would expect city pple to not know. Its blatant discrimination against Ind. pple.

Dont talk to me about discrimination from Aborigines .
Its pathetic. If they are angry ,some of them, then its understandable.

If you dont believe thats true you need to open your eyes and listen to the pain and suffering around from Ind. pple....the ones youve been amongst your whole life but never really seen.

To have a job and give your kids a chance at a decent life and education so they can go on to fullfil roles in society to help theyre own pple?

You will never have to ponder this though because , by sheer luck, you didnt come out black.!!!

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auzgurl

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Re: Saying sorry
Reply #29 - Feb 27^th, 2007 at 2:17pm

Sure there is an alcohol problem, and sure IT IS killing them and theyre communities..but the grog problem wil be solved only by communities and Governments who actually legislate in the interests of the pple and who actually give a nuts. So far very little evidence of that"
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should have read...

Sure there is an alcohol problem, and sure IT IS KILLING them and theyre commnuities..but the grog problem will only be solved by commnuities and Goverments who actually legislate in the intrerests of the pple, whatever form that may take..to see any Government Dept. that actually gives a sh it?...Id like to see that. So far very little evidence of that !!

Personally Id like to see alcohol removed altogether..and I dont care about civil liberties..alcohol is killing many Indigenous families and should be removed ..civil liberties in this case I dont care about..whilst we worry about civil liberties and the right of these pple to drink, we are taking away the rights of the children in these families to experience somewhere near a nomal life.

What about the rights of these children?

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« Last Edit: Mar 3^rd, 2007 at 7:26pm by N/A »

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Question: Who should say sorry to the Aborigines?
Queen Elizabeth Our Prime minister The British Prime Minister Nobody-Forgive and Forget « Last Modified by: ozadmin on: Aug 2^nd, 2007 at 12:14pm »