Australian Politics Forum - Was John Lennon (The Beatles) a communist?

MeisterEckhart Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17122 Gender:	Re: Was John Lennon (The Beatles) a communist? Reply #30 - Feb 20^th, 2023 at 11:36am Lennon was a sociopath and, like all sociopaths, they are a lifelong danger to themselves and anyone associated with them.
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Jasin Gold Member Offline Posts: 56801 Gender:	Re: Was John Lennon (The Beatles) a communist? Reply #31 - Feb 20^th, 2023 at 12:24pm I would agree he was a sociopath. The Media loves him and harps on about him. But I believe the world became a better place, when someone gave him what he asked for - R.I.Peace.
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Dnarever

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Re: Was John Lennon (The Beatles) a communist?
Reply #32 - Feb 20^th, 2023 at 3:31pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 20^th, 2023 at 11:15am:

Dnarever wrote on Feb 20^th, 2023 at 11:05am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 20^th, 2023 at 10:10am:

Lennon was a badly educated iconoclast.

His skill as a songwriter was augmented, beyond what he would have achieved on his own, by McCartney's skill and, importantly, McCartney's high conscientiousness, when it came to applying himself to the craft.

Lennon did not have McCartney's focus on the job, (he was much less conscientious than McCartney) as evidenced by McCartney's complete reinvention of himself during the 70s, while Lennon mostly languished in an opioid haze.

Had he not been shot, his last album 'Double Fantasy' would have been consigned to the dustbin as unworthy of his former work.

Lennon was, and remained, a malcontent typical of his generation at the time. He was born a British working-class child, who was elevated into the British lower-middle class in his early childhood and so bore the burden of British working-class self-consciousness lacquered with a middle-class sense of upwards mobility.

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Lennon did not have McCartney's focus on the job, (he was much less conscientious than McCartney) as evidenced by McCartney's complete reinvention of himself during the 70s, while Lennon mostly languished in an opioid haze.

After the beatles broke up in 1969 both Lennon and McCatney released their first album in 1970 and their second in 1971.

John Lennon/Plastic Ono Band - 1970
John Lenon - Imagine 1971

McCartney (self named) - 1970
RAM - 1971.

Lennon had release 3 works with Yoko Ono while the beatles were still together. Plus a live album and 2 singles. "Give Peace a Chance" and "Cold Turkey"

The facts seem to not agree with your assesment. Both Lennon and McCartney were wonderful writers.

McCartney's successful reinvention was so complete during the 70s with 'Wings', many people born after the Beatles era were unaware that he was in a band before Wings.

McCartney wrote the theme song for the James Bond film 'Live and Let Die'.

The fortune he amassed during his Wings era (from Wings sales alone) eclipsed many times over Lennon's Plastic Ono Band and everything Lennon produced post-Beatles combined.

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McCartney's successful reinvention was so complete during the 70s with 'Wings', many people born after the Beatles era were unaware that he was in a band before Wings.

Calling BS on that one.

McCartney is great not playing them off against each other. Lennon was hugely successful in his own right.

Imagine has got air play for 5 decades. many of his other songs were big hits.

Here is a nice cover of a very good Lennon song. (Emily)

McCartney was brilliant but for me Live and let die was not one of his best for me, nor was mulligans tyres (horrible). Just about played RAM through the record, One of the few fans of My Love. Band on the run etc.

I prefer to like them both No need to run either of the greats down.

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« Last Edit: Feb 20^th, 2023 at 4:04pm by Dnarever »

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Dnarever

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Re: Was John Lennon (The Beatles) a communist?
Reply #33 - Feb 20^th, 2023 at 4:07pm

Jasin wrote on Feb 20^th, 2023 at 12:24pm:

I would agree he was a sociopath.
The Media loves him and harps on about him.
But I believe the world became a better place, when someone gave him what he asked for - R.I.Peace.

Amazing how often the right here show that the right is full of hate, the topic does not matter there is hate to be found.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Was John Lennon (The Beatles) a communist?
Reply #34 - Feb 20^th, 2023 at 4:48pm

Dnarever wrote on Feb 20^th, 2023 at 3:31pm:

I prefer to like them both No need to run either of the greats down.

Sure, you can like Lennon's music, and also not hide from the truth of his personality and character at the same time.

Many famously creative people had deeply flawed personalities - it's more the norm than the exception - van Gogh, for instance.

Many of us covertly admire sociopathic behaviour in others from a distance - they do what they want impulsively, and often get more than what they want because of that.

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Jasin

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Re: Was John Lennon (The Beatles) a communist?
Reply #35 - Feb 20^th, 2023 at 5:03pm

Dnarever is a media gimp, let alone Peccary's.

The Beatles never really grabbed my attention, let alone their music.
But Led Zep did! Cheesy

Anyway, I always admire professionalism and integrity in front of the camera and off it. Very few Musicians, Celebs, etc gift the world with this.

Lennon wasn't one of them. MeisterEccy has really described well - the Lennon flaw.
Me personally, he did come across as just a miserable snob of pothead man - that peeved someone off so much, they gave him what he asked for.

Sometimes it happens like that.
And I don't buy into the mass sympathy the media throws around flippantly.

I always, right from the start, even long before the 'arranged' marriage with Diana 'Lannister' Spencer - never liked her fake persona for the Media. She was a potty mouthed Spencer gold digger that couldn't keep her mouth shut slagging off everything... while playing the shy, timid, media princess like a fragile victim for the media. Roll Eyes

I actually was relieved for poor old Charlie who put 'love' before 'arranged' in his life, when the 'Queen' showed the Spencers not to mess with a Windsor.

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Dnarever

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Re: Was John Lennon (The Beatles) a communist?
Reply #36 - Feb 20^th, 2023 at 5:29pm

Zeplin released their first record about the same time as the Beatles last. They didn't really cross over. Jasin being too young at the time to understand is more like the point here. Zeplin were also great.

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The Beatles never really grabbed my attention

One of the things that make the Right the right, the belief that the sun and moon revolve around them.

JOHN LENNON sold over 22,843,171 albums Not too shabby.

That would be exactly 22,843,171 more than Jasin & me either independently or combined.

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Dnarever

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Re: Was John Lennon (The Beatles) a communist?
Reply #37 - Feb 20^th, 2023 at 5:35pm

Jasin wrote on Feb 20^th, 2023 at 5:03pm:

Dnarever is a media gimp, let alone Peccary's.

The Beatles never really grabbed my attention, let alone their music.
But Led Zep did! Cheesy

Anyway, I always admire professionalism and integrity in front of the camera and off it. Very few Musicians, Celebs, etc gift the world with this.

Lennon wasn't one of them. MeisterEccy has really described well - the Lennon flaw.
Me personally, he did come across as just a miserable snob of pothead man - that peeved someone off so much, they gave him what he asked for.

Sometimes it happens like that.
And I don't buy into the mass sympathy the media throws around flippantly.

I always, right from the start, even long before the 'arranged' marriage with Diana 'Lannister' Spencer - never liked her fake persona for the Media. She was a potty mouthed Spencer gold digger that couldn't keep her mouth shut slagging off everything... while playing the shy, timid, media princess like a fragile victim for the media. Roll Eyes

I actually was relieved for poor old Charlie who put 'love' before 'arranged' in his life, when the 'Queen' showed the Spencers not to mess with a Windsor.

Charlie had been sniffing around Diana from the time she was 14, he was around 35.

They didn't off with her head but it was just as effective.

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Gordon

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Re: Was John Lennon (The Beatles) a communist?
Reply #38 - Feb 20^th, 2023 at 6:00pm

I'm going to say no, Lennon was not a commy based on the lyrics to Revolution and his song, Working Class Hero was not about socialism.

You say you want a revolution
Well, you know
We all want to change the world
You tell me that it's evolution
Well, you know
We all want to change the world
But when you talk about destruction
Don't you know that you can count me out (in)
Don't you know it's gonna be
All right?
Don't you know it's gonna be (all right)
Don't you know it's gonna be (all right)
You say you got a real solution
Well, you know
We'd all love to see the plan
You ask me for a contribution
Well, you know
We're all doing what we can
But if you want money for people with minds that hate
All I can tell you is brother you have to wait
Don't you know it's gonna be (all right)
Don't you know it's gonna be (all right)
Don't you know it's gonna be (all right)
You say you'll change the constitution
Well, you know
We'd all love to change your head
You tell me it's the institution
Well, you know
You better free your mind instead
But if you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao
You ain't going to make it with anyone anyhow
Don't you know it's gonna be (all right)
Don't you know it's gonna be (all right)
Don't you know it's gonna be (all right)

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Dnarever

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Re: Was John Lennon (The Beatles) a communist?
Reply #39 - Feb 20^th, 2023 at 6:06pm

Gordon wrote on Feb 20^th, 2023 at 6:00pm:

I'm going to say no, Lennon was not a commy based on the lyrics to Revolution and his song, Working Class Hero was not about socialism.

You say you want a revolution
Well, you know
We all want to change the world
You tell me that it's evolution
Well, you know
We all want to change the world
But when you talk about destruction
Don't you know that you can count me out (in)
Don't you know it's gonna be
All right?
Don't you know it's gonna be (all right)
Don't you know it's gonna be (all right)
You say you got a real solution
Well, you know
We'd all love to see the plan
You ask me for a contribution
Well, you know
We're all doing what we can
But if you want money for people with minds that hate
All I can tell you is brother you have to wait
Don't you know it's gonna be (all right)
Don't you know it's gonna be (all right)
Don't you know it's gonna be (all right)
You say you'll change the constitution
Well, you know
We'd all love to change your head
You tell me it's the institution
Well, you know
You better free your mind instead
But if you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao
You ain't going to make it with anyone anyhow
Don't you know it's gonna be (all right)
Don't you know it's gonna be (all right)
Don't you know it's gonna be (all right)

Socialist isn't communist, he claimed to be a socialist but not a communist. An instinctive socialist I suspect he means that as from a working class family with a belief in workers rights he was just naturally anti establishment market politics (big corporate) and pro social justice.

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greggerypeccary Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 153660 Gender:	Re: Was John Lennon (The Beatles) a communist? Reply #40 - Feb 20^th, 2023 at 6:07pm Gordon wrote on Feb 20^th, 2023 at 6:00pm: I'm going to say no, Lennon was not a commy based on the lyrics to Revolution and his song, Working Class Hero was not about socialism. Socialism and communism are two different things. The thread is about communism - why change the subject to socialism?
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Gordon

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Re: Was John Lennon (The Beatles) a communist?
Reply #41 - Feb 20^th, 2023 at 6:10pm

Unlike woke lefties, I literally don't give a flying crap about the politics or bad deeds of entertainers I enjoy. They're there to entertain me, not be role models.

Louis CK can wank on pot plants all he wants, he's one of my favourite comedians.
Roger Waters can be a raving left wing loony, I'll never stop listening to Pink Floyd.
I'll even happily watch Alec Baldwin (AKA psyco killer) in Hunt for Red October and the Departed.

I like some Beatles, some Lennon, some McCartney

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Gordon Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 21856 Gordon Gender:	Re: Was John Lennon (The Beatles) a communist? Reply #42 - Feb 20^th, 2023 at 6:12pm Gotta say tho, if I could trade Harrison to be alive instead of McCarntey, I probably would.
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Gordon Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 21856 Gordon Gender:	Re: Was John Lennon (The Beatles) a communist? Reply #43 - Feb 20^th, 2023 at 6:14pm
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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Was John Lennon (The Beatles) a communist?
Reply #44 - Feb 20^th, 2023 at 6:15pm

Gordon wrote on Feb 20^th, 2023 at 6:00pm:

I'm going to say no, Lennon was not a commy based on the lyrics to Revolution and his song, Working Class Hero was not about socialism.

But when you talk about destruction
Don't you know that you can count me out (in)

Until you read about the original lyrics - Lennon's version was pro-revolution. All that remains of his version was his muted 'in' right after they sing 'count me out'.

It was Lennon's little act of defiance at the lyrics being rewritten.

Working-class hero was about his angst at being considered one - given the middle-class upbringing he'd had when he went to live with his mother's sister, he was considered 'posh' by scouse standards, so, not working-class. Likely he was more concerned about being found out as a fraud.

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