Australian Politics Forum - Is democracy over-rated?

ex-member DonaldTrump

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Is democracy over-rated?
Feb 15^th, 2007 at 5:16pm

I know it may seem crazy, but I have the belief that democracy is over-rated.

To me, giving voting privileges to people who are uneducated on certain subjects and don't want to vote in the first place seems like a disaster waiting to happen.

Plato himself was thoroughly opposed to democracy.

Does anyone share my belief? Or am I alone on this one?

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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 50565 At my desk.	Re: Is democracy over-rated? Reply #1 - Feb 16^th, 2007 at 9:36am Of course Plato was opposed. Democracy is expensive and they probably couldn't afford it back then. Democracy isn't so popular because it is so perfect, it is so popular because all the other options are worse. "Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others"
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Aussie Nationalist Ex Member Gender:	Re: Is democracy over-rated? Reply #2 - Feb 16^th, 2007 at 2:48pm What other option do we have? A monarchy? Dictatorship? If dictatorship it'd better be right wing! I aint living in a communist/socialist country!
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ex-member DonaldTrump

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Re: Is democracy over-rated?
Reply #3 - Feb 17^th, 2007 at 1:00am

Freediver wrote:
Quote:

Of course Plato was opposed. Democracy is expensive and they probably couldn't afford it back then.

Actually... he didn't like it because 'democracy' caused the death of his close friend and teacher, 'socrates.'

'Mob justice' in other words. Tongue

AusNat wrote:
Quote:

What other option do we have? A monarchy? Dictatorship? If dictatorship it'd better be right wing!
I aint living in a communist/socialist country!

True. But at the end of the day, AusNat, we're just voting in new dictatorships 3 years at a time... aren't we?

If we had 'true' democracy in our society, we'd have a vote in everything... from the GST.... to the water conservation plan. From defense spending... to roadworks.

See what I'm getting at?

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Tolerance is the virtue of men who no longer believe in anything

&&-- G.K. Chesterton

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freediver

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Re: Is democracy over-rated?
Reply #4 - Feb 17^th, 2007 at 1:08pm

Actually DT I've got an article in the works on that idea, for the electoral reform section. It would be a good idea for QLD as it would help make up for the lack of an upper house to keep things in check. It is a form of voting by delegable proxy. The idea is that rather than every sitting member having an equal vote, their vote is proportional to the number of people who have delegated their votes to them. You would still have 89 sitting members, being those 89 candidates with the highest number of votes. Anyone who doesn't make it in must delegate their votes to a sitting member.

The key to this is that voters don't just get to vote at election time. They can change their vote (redelegate it) at any time. You could also have agents representing a group of people that can shift blocks of votes back and forth between sitting members.

This would achieve two goals. It would effectively allow those who wanted to, to vote on each issue. It would also allow those who prefer to delegate their vote to a person they trust to do that. One of the fundamental trade-offs with democracy is that the more participatory it is, the more it costs society. This scheme would give a good balance.

One problem is the tracking that would be required, so you would probably end up with a hybrid system, where those who only want to be on the regular electoral role voting every three years, and those using the other system having their names marked on the electoral role so they can't vote on election day. Instead they can vote, or change their vote at any time.

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Aussie Nationalist Ex Member Gender:	Re: Is democracy over-rated? Reply #5 - Feb 18^th, 2007 at 4:57pm Yep, a true democracy would require a referendum for every major decision. thats how it should be. Also i reckon elections should be held EVERY YEAR. That'll keep the bastards honest.
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freediver

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Parents should get votes for kids: MP
Reply #6 - Jul 27^th, 2007 at 11:04am

http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/Parents-should-get-votes-for-kids-MP/2007/07/27/1185339196674.html

Parents would be given extra votes for each of their children under the age of 18 under a radical proposal put forward by a Victorian MP.

Evan Thornley, the parliamentary secretary for national reform policy in Victorian Premier Steve Bracks' cabinet, has floated the idea that parents should have the right to vote for themselves and on behalf of their children.

The move would break down short-term thinking, encourage discussion of cross-generational issues such as global warming and education and foster greater interest in politics among school students, Mr Thornley told Fairfax newspapers.

"Just imagine the radical change that would occur if parents voted not just on their own behalf but on behalf of their children, what that would bring to democracy, for investing in human capital, for investing in the next generation, for thinking about the environment and the longer-term future of our country," Mr Thornley said.

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merou

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Re: Parents should get votes for kids: MP
Reply #7 - Jul 27^th, 2007 at 11:33am

freediver wrote on Jul 27^th, 2007 at 11:04am:

http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/Parents-should-get-votes-for-kids-MP/2007/07/27/1185339196674.html

Parents would be given extra votes for each of their children under the age of 18 under a radical proposal put forward

"Just imagine the radical change that would occur if parents voted not just on their own behalf but on behalf of their children, what that would bring to democracy, for investing in human capital, for investing in the next generation, for thinking about the environment and the longer-term future of our country," Mr Thornley said.

Not saying I am opposed to the idea, having grown up in poor areas, Ive noticed that, in general, poor people have more kids. Wheather it be so that they can get more money from the govt I don't know, but it may mean we get politicians who are all for raising unemployment benefits.
Now, in saying that, remember I was raised on low income and unemployment benefits, I think the guidelines need to be stricter. There are to many lazy pricks who are happy to bludge for their money, if the government is going to hand it out.
My answer is sterilise junkies, put child limits of 1 on longterm dole bludgers, shoot anyone who is a repeat offender and spent more than 7 years in jail,and make slack arsed dads get some farkin skills and fill the skilled labour shortage, so we don't need to import them from OS.
I have spent thousands since I have been a dad, to get tickets, travelled to do training courses, set goals about my income and skill potential, I was a drug addict as a teenager, and have been a dole bludger, so i am more than qualified to say what I do. If I can get off my arse and make a life for myself, (I now have a job in the oil and gas industry earning up to $100,000 per year), then there is no fukcing excuses. People do not rehabilitate themselves because it's too easy for them to survive the way they are, thats a fact.

Yeah, anyway, back on subject. A democracy with minimum tolerance to anti-social behaviour.
There would shitloads more money for people who are willing to get off their arses, how many millions would be saved if tax revenue didn't have to support, murderers, rapist, pedophiles, lifelong junkies and career criminals. SHOOT EM ALL AND LET GOD SORT EM OUT. Grin

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« Last Edit: Jul 27^th, 2007 at 11:41am by merou »

Shoot the scum and let God sort em out.

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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 50565 At my desk.	Re: Is democracy over-rated? Reply #8 - Jul 27^th, 2007 at 11:43am Welcome to OzPolitic merou. Sounds like you might just fit in here.
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Aussie Nationalist Ex Member Gender:	Re: Is democracy over-rated? Reply #9 - Jul 27^th, 2007 at 12:28pm freediver wrote on Jul 27^th, 2007 at 11:43am: Welcome to OzPolitic merou. Sounds like you might just fit in here. I think he will
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merou

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Re: Is democracy over-rated?
Reply #10 - Jul 27^th, 2007 at 12:49pm

Thank you, I'm sure some of my views will seem outrageous, but I ve been through some shite with unemployment and drug addiction, then done what I needed to do in order to get back into society, so I feel very confident in my zero tolerance approach to policing. Theres way to much tolerance for scum on this planet, we need a kull.

12mnths in jail costs tens of thousands, a bullet is under $2.

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Shoot the scum and let God sort em out.

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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 50565 At my desk.	Re: Is democracy over-rated? Reply #11 - Jul 27^th, 2007 at 12:50pm The cost of a bullet is in what you do with it.
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merou Full Member Offline Less Tolerance, More Shooting Posts: 193 Pilbara WA Gender:	Re: Is democracy over-rated? Reply #12 - Jul 27^th, 2007 at 12:53pm If shooting a convicted pedophile saves one child, that bullet is priceless.
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oceanz Gold Member Offline Auzgurl.. Posts: 3531 Gender:	Re: Is democracy over-rated? Reply #13 - Jul 27^th, 2007 at 5:54pm merou wrote on Jul 27^th, 2007 at 12:53pm: If shooting a convicted pedophile saves one child, that bullet is priceless. yes I agree.
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Sprintcyclist

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Re: Is democracy over-rated?
Reply #14 - Jul 27^th, 2007 at 6:55pm

Hi Meoru ,

Well done on pulling yourself up by your own bootstraps. I've been broke and managed to come out ok.
Is not easy, but it is good. It is much better for me to pay taxes and contribute.

Some peoples votes are worth more than others. The votes could be "scaled".
Those that contribute toward society are more valued than than those that just take and take.

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