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http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl Member Run Boards >> Islam >> Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ? http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1552398731 Message started by Yadda on Mar 12^th, 2019 at 11:52pm

Title: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Yadda on Mar 12^th, 2019 at 11:52pm

QUESTION #1;
If ISLAMIC law is superior    and if ISLAMIC law is very just, and if moslems [the followers of ISLAM] are the virtuous people,
why is there so much corruption and injustice and oppression in every moslem majority nation ?

QUESTION #2;
Is there somewhere in the world, an 'exemplar' moslem majority nation, which every moslem in the world is proud of ?

Is it Pakistan perhaps ?

Which name, of that country, means,    'the land of the pure.'

If your reply [to QUESTION #1] is going to be,       that;
"Many moslem nations have corrupt politicians and leaders, and have violent and oppressive regimes."

.....why don't [why can't] the virtue of the moslem majority in that nation, be enough to overthrow those who are their oppressors ?

Q.
Why are all of those brave and virtuous moslems,       in moslem majority nations, unable to work together, to overthrow those oppressors - with Allah's help ?

.

"Ye [moslems] are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah. If only the People of the Book had faith, it were best for them: among them are some who have faith, but most of them are perverted transgressors."
Koran 3.110

"Let those fight in the cause of Allah Who sell the life of this world for the hereafter. To him who fighteth in the cause of Allah,- whether he is slain or gets victory - Soon shall We give him a reward of great (value).
And why should ye not fight in the cause of Allah and [for] those who, being weak, are ill-treated (and oppressed)?- Men, women, and children, whose cry is: "Our Lord! Rescue us from this town, whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from thee one who will protect; and raise for us from thee one who will help!"
Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah, and those who reject Faith Fight in the cause of Evil: So fight ye against the friends of Satan: feeble indeed is the cunning of Satan."
Koran 4.74-76

AGAIN;
Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation, which is a beacon [to the whole world] of peace, and of justice, and of prosperity,
because moslems live there, and because they follow ISLAMIC law !?

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Yadda on Mar 13^th, 2019 at 11:08am

Yadda wrote on Mar 12^th, 2019 at 11:52pm:

QUESTION #2;
Is there somewhere in the world, an 'exemplar' moslem majority nation, which every moslem in the world is proud of ?

Is it Pakistan perhaps ?

Which name, of that country, means, 'the land of the pure.'

Pakistan, ISLAM, the moslem ummah, it applies the same.

Proverbs 22:1
A good name is rather to be chosen than great riches, and loving favour rather than silver and gold.

Proverbs 14:34
Righteousness exalteth a nation: but sin is a reproach to any people.

Many people may fear ISLAM's ~~name~~ reputation in the world,
but moslems are known for their deceit and their treachery, not for their virtue and honest dealing.

moslems = = the followers of ISLAM.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by freediver on Mar 13^th, 2019 at 12:52pm

Gandalf, Brian et al often try to use Indonesia or Malaysia - Muslim majority nations with a far shorter history of Islam than most and hence the greatest non-Muslim influence. But even they show demonstrable signs of slipping backwards under the influence of Islam.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Karnal on Mar 13^th, 2019 at 1:47pm

freediver wrote on Mar 13^th, 2019 at 12:52pm:

Ah, the old plausible theory - South East Asian Muslims are nicer because they don't have the Negroid genes of their fellow Arabian subspecies.

Give them another 500 years, FD. They'll import Negroid genes for sure. They'll have to. Muhammed decreed it.

It's the only way they can get back at decent white people everywhere.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by polite_gandalf on Mar 13^th, 2019 at 1:53pm

Indonesia is a good example of living Islam - by simple virtue of being the largest muslim country in the world.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by greggerypeccary on Mar 13^th, 2019 at 1:56pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 13^th, 2019 at 1:53pm:

Indonesia is a good example of living Islam - by simple virtue of being the largest muslim country in the world.

I find it so funny that thousands of Islamophobic bogans go to Bali every year.

True story: many of them don't even know Bali is in Indonesia - they think it's a separate nation.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Yadda on Mar 15^th, 2019 at 10:04am

Q.
Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 13^th, 2019 at 1:53pm:

1/ Indonesia is a good example of living Islam -
2/ by simple virtue of being the largest muslim country in the world.

Indonesia is 1/ a good example of living Islam - by simple virtue of being 2/ the largest muslim country in the world.

gandalf,

I do not dispute your points, 1/ and 2/ above.

Yes, 2/ Indonesia is the country in the world with the largest moslem population,
and yes, 1/ Indonesia is a good example of [the many] followers of ISLAM in Indonesia, living and promoting ISLAM.

gandalf,

YOUR OWN POINTS, REITERATED;
The population of Indonesia is > 200 million, and the vast majority of those 200 million people declare themselves to be followers of ISLAM.

And yes [i do agree with you that], the influence of ISLAMIC culture and ISLAMIC law is very strong, in Indonesia.

.

gandalf,

But in light of the examples and evidences [provided below], i don't see how, or why, you would choose to 'hold up' Indonesia' as an 'ensign' of ISLAMIC virtue and of ISLAMIC tolerance and of ISLAMIC justice, in law.

.

gandalf,

I provide these examples and evidences [below] which would contradict any assurtion or argument that a virtuous ISLAMIC based society, exists today, in Indonesia.

These being examples and evidences [imo], which would go a long way to convince [any reasonable person], that a virtuous, ISLAMIC based society, DOES NOT exist today, in Indonesia.

.

gandalf,

Can you tell us, AND WILL YOU TELL US ???, do you endorse any of these ISLAMIC virtues [listed below], which are commonly on display in Indonesia ?

ISLAM and ISLAMIC law, in Indonesia ------ >

ISLAM and ISLAMIC law, in Indonesia ------ >

ISLAM and ISLAMIC law, in Indonesia ------ >

WWW search.... gandalf, do you approve of this ISLAMIC virtue, in Indonesia ?
Sharia in Indonesia: Women unable to walk after brutal public whippings
Mar 7, 2019 9:10 am By Christine Douglass-Williams

WWW search.... gandalf, do you approve of this ISLAMIC virtue, in Indonesia ?
Indonesia: Teen girl and her boyfriend are caned for hugging in public
Feb 3, 2019 5:08 pm By Robert Spencer

WWW search.... gandalf, do you approve of this ISLAMIC virtue, in Indonesia ?
Indonesia: Muslim lawmakers reject anti-rape bill over concerns that it’s “pro-adultery” and “pro-LGBT”
Feb 3, 2019 4:36 pm By Robert Spencer

["Muslim lawmakers reject anti-rape bill" ??? on the face of it, is this a virtuous position, for the followers of ISLAM to support ? ]

WWW search.... gandalf, do you approve of this ISLAMIC virtue, in Indonesia ?
Indonesia: Muslim cleric linked to Bali jihad massacre to be released despite not renouncing “radicalism”
Jan 23, 2019 12:00 pm By Robert Spencer

WWW search.... gandalf, do you approve of this ISLAMIC virtue, in Indonesia ?
Indonesia: President whom foes say is insufficiently Islamic to release Muslim cleric behind Bali jihad massacre
Jan 20, 2019 8:00 am By Robert Spencer

[the influence of ISLAMIC religious law, overlaps into Indonesian politics ? ]

WWW search.... gandalf, do you approve of this ISLAMIC virtue, in Indonesia ?
Indonesia: Muslims plot jihad massacres during Christmas and New Year celebrations
Dec 15, 2018 1:41 pm By Robert Spencer
"Targeting people who are in the midst of joyful celebrations"

[such aggression is 100% lawful, in ISLAMIC law. Koran 9.123, Koran 9.111 ]

WWW search.... gandalf, do you approve of this ISLAMIC virtue, in Indonesia ?
Indonesia: Tens of thousands of Muslims rally to celebrate ousting of Christian governor who was accused of blasphemy
Dec 5, 2018 12:21 pm By Robert Spencer

[Q. gandalf, was it and act of blasphemy, for Christian politician Ahok, to publicly quote a Koranic verse, verbatim ?
Q. gandalf, in an ISLAMIC law jurisdiction, should a non-moslem be permitted to publicly quote Koranic verses, in support of his own legal position ?
Q. what is the proper and appropriate ISLAMIC law 'remedy', if this is not permissible ? ]

WWW search.... gandalf, do you approve of this ISLAMIC virtue, in Indonesia ?
Indonesia: Christian politician faces blasphemy charge for saying she won’t support laws based on “Bible or Sharia”
Dec 2, 2018 7:55 am By Robert Spencer

[Q. are publicly expressing secular opinions and views unlawful, in Indonesian ? in Indonesian law ? ]

MORE.... [examples]

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Yadda on Mar 15^th, 2019 at 10:05am

CONTINUED....

WWW search.... gandalf, do you approve of this ISLAMIC virtue, in Indonesia ?
Indonesia: Aceh village tells coffee shops to cut Wi-Fi so kids don’t get distracted from reading Quran
Nov 25, 2018 11:05 am By Robert Spencer

[Q. is that coz, the followers of ISLAM in Indonesia, are afraid that those kids may 'miss out' on reading commands which are in the Koran which urge them to fight and kill disbelievers [including Christians and Buddhists ] ? ]

WWW search.... gandalf, do you approve of this ISLAMIC virtue, in Indonesia ?
Indonesia: Dozens of mosques attended by government workers are preaching jihad and attacks on non-Muslims
Nov 21, 2018 7:31 am By Christine Douglass-Williams

[oh gandalf!!! this is a great ISLAMIC virtue! don't you agree ? ]

WWW search.... gandalf, do you approve of this ISLAMIC virtue, in Indonesia ?
Sharia Indonesia: Woman caned in public for being “in close proximity” to boyfriend
Oct 29, 2018 4:05 pm By Robert Spencer

[gandalf, do you consider this statement to be truthful; "ISLAM is the most feminist religion" - Yassmin Abdel-Magied ??? ]

WWW search.... gandalf, do you approve of this ISLAMIC virtue, in Indonesia ?
Indonesia: Rally to promote moderate Islam canceled after threats of violence from Muslims screaming “Allahu akbar”
Oct 26, 2018 2:44 pm By Robert Spencer

[Q. gandalf, do you agree, that there is no 'moderate ISLAM' ?
but rather, that there is just ISLAM ?    ...which is the pure religion of Allah, and which is defined the Koran and by other authentic ISLAMIC religious texts ?
and do you support the view which is held by many moslems, that the promotion of a 'moderate ISLAM' is a conspiracy by the enemies of ISLAM ? ]

WWW search.... gandalf, do you approve of this ISLAMIC virtue, in Indonesia ?
Indonesia: 63 jihad terror groups pledge allegiance to the Islamic State’s caliph
Oct 12, 2018 8:27 am By Robert Spencer

[well they would, wouldn't they!
coz, these 'terrorists' are all followers of of the precepts and laws of ISLAM, just as ISIS itself is. ]

WWW search.... gandalf, do you approve of this ISLAMIC virtue, in Indonesia ?
Indonesia city orders top civil servants to go to mosque for dawn prayers or risk being fired
Sep 20, 2018 2:59 pm By Robert Spencer

[coz, 1/ in this Indonesian city 'civil servant' positions go to moslems, and 2/ if they don't go to mosque for dawn prayers, these moslems may 'miss out' on hearing the commands which are in the Koran which urge them to fight and kill disbelievers [including Christians and Buddhists ]. ]

WWW search.... gandalf, do you approve of this ISLAMIC virtue, in Indonesia ?
Indonesia: Kindergarten dresses children as armed jihadis for parade
Aug 20, 2018 10:44 am By Robert Spencer

[nothing wrong with this!    the followers of ISLAM in Indonesia, encouraging moslem children to devote themselves to death for Allah's cause.
so, so virtuous. 5 gold stars.]

"Fighting [against disbelievers] is prescribed for you, and [if] ye dislike it.....Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
Koran 2.216 ]
"Say: "...If ye think that ye are friends to Allah, to the exclusion of (other) men, then express your desire for Death, if ye are truthful!" "
Koran 62.06

WWW search.... gandalf, do you approve of this ISLAMIC virtue, in Indonesia ?
Indonesia: Gay couple flogged over 80 times, woman caned for selling alcohol, crowd screams “Hit them harder”
Jul 13, 2018 3:00 pm By Robert Spencer

[its only proper and lawful.    ...and virtuous, to punish those who do not obey ISLAMIC law.]

WWW search.... gandalf, do you approve of this ISLAMIC virtue, in Indonesia ?
Indonesia: Mosque survey finds 41% of Jakarta mosques are “radical,” including many that are state-owned
Jul 9, 2018 11:55 am By Robert Spencer

['radical' !!??    surely, they simply mean that this contingent [mosque attendees], obey Allah and ISLAMIC law.
without any doubt, highly virtuous people! ]

"We sent not a messenger, but to be obeyed..........they ['believers'] can have no (real) Faith, until they make thee judge in all disputes between them, and find in their souls no resistance against Thy decisions, but accept them with the fullest conviction."
Koran 4.64, 65
"O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the messenger, and make not vain your deeds!"
Koran 47:33

MORE.... [examples]

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Yadda on Mar 15^th, 2019 at 10:06am

CONTINUED....

WWW search.... gandalf, do you approve of this ISLAMIC virtue, in Indonesia ?
Indonesia: Mosque quotes Qur’an in telling Muslims not to vote for non-Muslims
Jul 5, 2018 12:57 pm By Robert Spencer

[it goes against everything which ISLAM stands for, to permit non-moslems to have positions of governance over believers.]

WWW search.... gandalf, do you approve of this ISLAMIC virtue, in Indonesia ?
Indonesia: Muslim cleric masterminded deadly jihad massacres from his jail cell
Jun 24, 2018 8:00 am By Robert Spencer

[ah well. luckily, this moslem cleric is just a single mis-understander of what ISLAM teaches.
peace and tolerance.]

WWW search.... gandalf, do you approve of this ISLAMIC virtue, in Indonesia ?
Ramadan in Indonesia: Muslims force closure of church
Jun 6, 2018 9:53 am By Robert Spencer

[because ISLAM is superior. every dhimmi Christian understand this. ]

WWW search.... gandalf, do you approve of this ISLAMIC virtue, in Indonesia ?
Indonesia: Muslim cleric orders multiple jihad massacres
May 19, 2018 9:42 am By Robert Spencer
"A Muslim cleric?
A man who has dedicated his life to understanding Islam correctly and communicating it properly somehow got the idea that his religion commanded him to fight against and kill unbelievers?"

[yet another follower of ISLAM, who simply mis-understands what ISLAM teaches.
ISLAM is peace.]

WWW search.... gandalf, do you approve of this ISLAMIC virtue, in Indonesia ?
Indonesia: Six jihad suicide bombers from one family attack three churches during Sunday Mass, killing at least 11
May 13, 2018 8:22 am By Robert Spencer

[ISLAM is peace.]

WWW search.... gandalf, do you approve of this ISLAMIC virtue, in Indonesia ?
Indonesia: Christian gets four years prison for remarks about the Qur’an
May 12, 2018 2:00 pm By Robert Spencer

[how dare any Christian say.....anything. disbeliever!!!!! ]

WWW search.... gandalf, do you approve of this ISLAMIC virtue, in Indonesia ?
Indonesia: Man gets five years prison for “insulting Islam” and “spreading hate speech”
May 8, 2018 9:06 am By Robert Spencer

[perhaps he's one of those Christian blasphemers ? ]

WWW search.... gandalf, do you approve of this ISLAMIC virtue, in Indonesia ?
Muslim preacher says Muslims will go to hell for buying from Starbucks because it supports LGBT community
Apr 29, 2018 4:30 pm By Robert Spencer

[everyone knows, that Allah hates LGBT. he thinks that they are perverse deviants. ]

WWW search.... gandalf, do you approve of this ISLAMIC virtue, in Indonesia ?
Indonesia: “Amorous couples” and alleged sex workers whipped for breaking Islamic law
Apr 21, 2018 11:21 am By Christine Douglass-Williams
"More than a thousand people, including dozens of tourists from neighbouring Malaysia jeered and screamed abuse at the group of three men."

[speaks for itself.]

WWW search.... gandalf, do you approve of this ISLAMIC virtue, in Indonesia ?
Indonesia’s Aceh province takes Sharia caning indoors to hide its abuses after backlash
Apr 14, 2018 9:32 am By Christine Douglass-Williams

[coz, the followers of ISLAM in Indonesia are proud of their religion, of ISLAMIC laws, and have nothing to hide from the eyes of the world ? ]

fin.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Yadda on Mar 15^th, 2019 at 11:33am

Q.
Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 13^th, 2019 at 1:53pm:

1/ Indonesia is a good example of living Islam -
2/ by simple virtue of being the largest muslim country in the world.

Indonesia is 1/ a good example of living Islam - 2/ by simple virtue of being the largest muslim country in the world.

gandalf,

YOUR OWN POINTS, REITERATED;
The population of Indonesia is > 200 million, and the vast majority of those 200 million people declare themselves to be followers of ISLAM.

And yes [i do agree with you that], the influence of ISLAMIC culture and ISLAMIC law is very strong, in Indonesia.

.

WWW search....
abc news jakarta isis mosque

n.b.
These news reports are accounts of an ISIS recruitment drive, inside Jakarta mosques [multiple].

ISLAM is peace.

Camera crew captures Islamic State recruitment drive in Jakarta mosque
Samantha Hawley reported this story on Monday, February 22, 2016 08:16:00
http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2016/s4410900.htm

Islamic State supporters meet at Jakarta mosques to recruit members for militant group
Samantha Hawley, Monday, February 22, 2016
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-22/islamic-state-supporters-run-recruitment-drive-at-jakarta-mosque/7188058

moslems = = followers of ISLAM

n.b.
To everyone who reads this post, .....i want you to know, that there are an awful lot of moslems living in Indonesia.

ISIS = = followers of ISLAM

WWW search....
indonesia, burn churches

WWW search....
indonesia, murder christians

.

Moslem clerics, in Indonesia are teaching moslem children.....

“People who worship anything other than Allah are infidels and it is permitted to kill them.”
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/03/people-who-worship-anything-other-than-allah-are-infidels-and-it-is-permitted-to-kill-them

"Jakarta (AsiaNews/Agencies) – The Religious Affairs Ministry banned the distribution of an Islamic religious textbook for high school grades that contain radical religious notions."

Funny though, how the ISLAMIC text book [sanctioning the 'lawful' murder of non-moslems] was only banned - AFTER ITS EXISTENCE IN INDONESIAN HIGH SCHOOLS WAS PUBLICLY EXPOSED.

OBSERVATION;
ISLAM = = the religion whose members are 'terrified',
....of open, public exposure, of ISLAM's doctrines.

Why so ?

/sarc off

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by freediver on Mar 15^th, 2019 at 12:26pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 13^th, 2019 at 1:53pm:

Indonesia is a good example of living Islam - by simple virtue of being the largest muslim country in the world.

So jailing mayors for daring to say nice things about Islam and caning people under shariah law is a 'good' example of what Islam does to a country?

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by polite_gandalf on Mar 15^th, 2019 at 2:45pm

freediver wrote on Mar 15^th, 2019 at 12:26pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 13^th, 2019 at 1:53pm:

Indonesia is a good example of living Islam - by simple virtue of being the largest muslim country in the world.

So jailing mayors for daring to say nice things about Islam and caning people under shariah law is a 'good' example of what Islam does to a country?

Arguably yes. As long as you are consistent and accept that electing mayors who stare down Islamists and build churches, and Presidents who crack down on Islamist hate speech - is also a 'good' example of what Islam does to a country.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by freediver on Mar 15^th, 2019 at 6:36pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 15^th, 2019 at 2:45pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 15^th, 2019 at 12:26pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 13^th, 2019 at 1:53pm:

Indonesia is a good example of living Islam - by simple virtue of being the largest muslim country in the world.

So jailing mayors for daring to say nice things about Islam and caning people under shariah law is a 'good' example of what Islam does to a country?

I understand the mayor in question was Christian. Won't be long before they put a stop to that. Inshallah.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by polite_gandalf on Mar 16^th, 2019 at 9:22am

Good grief, FD are you telling me this self censoring Islamofascist shithole actually elected a christian???

Shurly shum mishtake.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Karnal on Mar 16^th, 2019 at 1:16pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 16^th, 2019 at 9:22am:

Good grief, FD are you telling me this self censoring Islamofascist shithole actually elected a christian???

Shurly shum mishtake.

And their sinister laws allow a Christian to rule over them?

Shurely an even bigger mishtake.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Frank on Mar 16^th, 2019 at 2:48pm

Karnal wrote on Mar 16^th, 2019 at 1:16pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 16^th, 2019 at 9:22am:

Good grief, FD are you telling me this self censoring Islamofascist shithole actually elected a christian???

Shurly shum mishtake.

And their sinister laws allow a Christian to rule over them?

Shurely an even bigger mishtake.

Er... they jailed him for 2 years for blasphemy.

In a tense trial that was widely seen as a test of religious tolerance in the world's largest Muslim-majority nation, Basuki Tjahaja Purnama, also known as Ahok, was "found to have legitimately and convincingly conducted a criminal act of blasphemy, and because of that we have imposed two years of imprisonment", head judge Dwiarso Budi Santiarto told the court.

Ahok was charged with blasphemy after he said clerics had used a Koranic verse to mislead voters by telling them that Muslims were not allowed to vote for a Christian.

He has denied wrongdoing, and said he was not criticising the Koran, but rather the clerics' interpretation of the verse.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by polite_gandalf on Mar 16^th, 2019 at 7:58pm

Frank wrote on Mar 16^th, 2019 at 2:48pm:

Er... they jailed him for 2 years for blasphemy.

Different mayor Frank.

Apparently the Indonesians elect more than one christian. Whoda thunk it?

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by freediver on Mar 16^th, 2019 at 8:21pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 16^th, 2019 at 9:22am:

Good grief, FD are you telling me this self censoring Islamofascist shithole actually elected a christian???

Shurly shum mishtake.

The Muslims were unhappy about it. So they put him in jail for saying nice things about Islam.

That's as good as it gets apparently.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Frank on Mar 16^th, 2019 at 8:22pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 16^th, 2019 at 7:58pm:

Frank wrote on Mar 16^th, 2019 at 2:48pm:

Er... they jailed him for 2 years for blasphemy.

Different mayor Frank.

Apparently the Indonesians elect more than one christian. Whoda thunk it?

How many do they jail for blasphemy?

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by polite_gandalf on Mar 18^th, 2019 at 12:38pm

freediver wrote on Mar 16^th, 2019 at 8:21pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 16^th, 2019 at 9:22am:

Good grief, FD are you telling me this self censoring Islamofascist shithole actually elected a christian???

Shurly shum mishtake.

The Muslims were unhappy about it. So they put him in jail for saying nice things about Islam.

That's as good as it gets apparently.

Except the other mayor, who was elected on a church building platform, apparently.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by polite_gandalf on Mar 18^th, 2019 at 12:39pm

Frank wrote on Mar 16^th, 2019 at 8:22pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 16^th, 2019 at 7:58pm:

Frank wrote on Mar 16^th, 2019 at 2:48pm:

Er... they jailed him for 2 years for blasphemy.

Different mayor Frank.

Apparently the Indonesians elect more than one christian. Whoda thunk it?

How many do they jail for blasphemy?

one, so far.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Karnal on Mar 18^th, 2019 at 5:27pm

Frank wrote on Mar 16^th, 2019 at 2:48pm:

Karnal wrote on Mar 16^th, 2019 at 1:16pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 16^th, 2019 at 9:22am:

Good grief, FD are you telling me this self censoring Islamofascist shithole actually elected a christian???

Shurly shum mishtake.

And their sinister laws allow a Christian to rule over them?

Shurely an even bigger mishtake.

Indeed he was. I haven't read the law, but if it's blasphemy to scoff at the self-proclaimed piety of a religious politician, anything could be blasphemy. I was waiting for the not-guilty verdict. I was shocked. Ahok said nothing bad about religion or the Quran, it was ridiculous - a political show-trial.

Not only that, but prosecutors dropped the blasphemy charge and recommended a sentence of probation. Instead, the judge threw the book at Ahok.

This was politics, not religion. Indonesians have come out to protest against the blasphemy laws - there's huge grassroots support to get rid of these laws. To date, they've only been used on political opponents. Indeed, Sukarno introduced them to do so.

If FD read a bit or talked to Indonesians about their views, he would discover an overwhelming majority belief to keep religion distinct from politics - unlike, say, the Gulf states or Pakistan. Not only was this conviction ridiculous, the majority of Indonesians don't want the law applied in this way.

FD is right, but not in the way he thinks. Convictions like this certainly have the effect of taking away Indonesian liberties - not the liberty to blaspheme, but the liberty to speak out against religious politicians.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Frank on Mar 19^th, 2019 at 7:27am

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 18^th, 2019 at 12:39pm:

Frank wrote on Mar 16^th, 2019 at 8:22pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 16^th, 2019 at 7:58pm:

Frank wrote on Mar 16^th, 2019 at 2:48pm:

Er... they jailed him for 2 years for blasphemy.

Different mayor Frank.

Apparently the Indonesians elect more than one christian. Whoda thunk it?

How many do they jail for blasphemy?

one, so far.

;D ;D

Kill a chicken and let the monkeys watch. You don't have to jail or kill every 'blasphemer', every cartoonist, apostate, writer or critic for self-censorship to kick in very quickly.

Ahok was jailed for two years because it was ruled to be blasphemous to say that Muslims can be friends with Christians despite what the Koran says. The contentious verse in the Koran — Al Maidah 51 — does not tell Muslims they cannot vote for a Christian. The verse states that Muslims and Christians should not be allies. Moderate Muslim organisations, like Indonesia's biggest Muslim group Nahdlatul Ulama (NU), say the verse has been misinterpreted by religious conservatives. But of course moderate Muslims are not listened to by the Indonesian judiciary.

One judge said, “As part of a religious society, the defendant should be careful to not use words with negative connotations regarding the symbols of religions, including the religion of the defendant himself.” Another judge, Abdul Rosyad, said reasons for the stiff sentence included that “the defendant did not feel guilt, the defendant’s act has caused anxiety and hurt Muslims”.

So much for Indonesia as an example....

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by .JaSin. on Mar 19^th, 2019 at 8:14am

The Old Monotheisms are dying as a lie.
The New Worlds are the Truth and the future.
Tell a Moslem that the Aboriginals are the Truth and if the Moslem dissagrees, then alert your local aboriginal mob to come and 'educate' them. ;D

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by freediver on Mar 19^th, 2019 at 9:06am

Quote:

This was politics, not religion.

The distinction does not exist in Islam.

Quote:

Indonesians have come out to protest against the blasphemy laws - there's huge grassroots support to get rid of these laws.

Did they match the number protesting against ahok?

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 18^th, 2019 at 12:39pm:

Frank wrote on Mar 16^th, 2019 at 8:22pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 16^th, 2019 at 7:58pm:

Frank wrote on Mar 16^th, 2019 at 2:48pm:

Er... they jailed him for 2 years for blasphemy.

Different mayor Frank.

Apparently the Indonesians elect more than one christian. Whoda thunk it?

How many do they jail for blasphemy?

one, so far.

Lots of people have been jailed in Indonesia for blasphemy. Gandalf likes to reassure people that this will not lead to self censorship or affect the "healthy free marketplace of ideas" regarding the interpretation of Islam.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by polite_gandalf on Mar 19^th, 2019 at 10:14am

freediver wrote on Mar 19^th, 2019 at 9:06am:

Gandalf likes to reassure people that this will not lead to self censorship or affect the "healthy free marketplace of ideas"

Nonsense.

I simply asked for evidence to back up your unsubstantiated claims. So far you have been surprisingly candid about the fact that your sweeping claims about Indonesian society are not based on any actual evidence - only a logical leap that this gaoling surely must lead to wholesale, across the board self-censorship - thus making Indonesia an "Islamofascist oppressive shithole".

It really is amazing the elaborate (mis)characterisation you can paint of someone - all because they dare ask for substantiation of a baseless claim.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by freediver on Mar 19^th, 2019 at 10:22am

Quote:

I simply asked for evidence to back up your unsubstantiated claims.

That jailing people for blasphemy leads to self censorship?

As I recall the argument basically turned into you lying about what I said in a variety of ways, and me having to explain to you repeatedly how simple it is.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by polite_gandalf on Mar 19^th, 2019 at 10:58am

freediver wrote on Mar 19^th, 2019 at 10:22am:

That jailing people for blasphemy leads to self censorship?

Don't twist it into something different FD.

That the gaoling of one person on a particular trumped up charge for obvious political purposes, necessarily means that Indonesia is a self-censoring "Islamofascist oppressive shithole".

Don't pretend this is now about "gaoling people" (en masse) - you only ever referred to a single case as the basis for your entire argument.

freediver wrote on Mar 19^th, 2019 at 10:22am:

As I recall the argument basically turned into you lying about what I said

Lets see, so far we've had you saying:

- gandalf defends gaoling of Ahok - Islamofascist apologiser, turd polisher etc etc etc
- gandalf "implied" and "likes to reassure people" that gaoling for blasphemy doesn't lead to self censorship - all because I dare ask for evidence for a sweeping claim.

How confident are you of this "recollection" that its all been gandalf lying about stuff? ;)

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by freediver on Mar 19^th, 2019 at 9:27pm

Quote:

That the gaoling of one person on a particular trumped up charge for obvious political purposes, necessarily means that Indonesia is a self-censoring "Islamofascist oppressive shithole".

Just one example of how you lie and misrepresent my argument. it seems now I cannot give an example of something without you trying to misrepresent it as the entirety of my argument. Another lie you told was that I claimed the law alone causes self censorship. Does Islam preclude holding two thoughts in your head at the same time?

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Karnal on Mar 20^th, 2019 at 7:31am

freediver wrote on Mar 19^th, 2019 at 9:27pm:

Quote:

That the gaoling of one person on a particular trumped up charge for obvious political purposes, necessarily means that Indonesia is a self-censoring "Islamofascist oppressive shithole".

So unfair.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by polite_gandalf on Mar 20^th, 2019 at 9:47am

freediver wrote on Mar 19^th, 2019 at 9:27pm:

Quote:

That the gaoling of one person on a particular trumped up charge for obvious political purposes, necessarily means that Indonesia is a self-censoring "Islamofascist oppressive shithole".

It is the entirety of your argument FD. A huge logical leap based on a single incident. Not once did you mention any other evidence/examples of why Indonesia is a self censoring Islamofascist oppressive shithole.

I can but judge you only on what you say.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by polite_gandalf on Mar 20^th, 2019 at 9:54am

Indonesian Islamic extremists being able to "say whatever they like":

Quote:

JAKARTA - A Muslim preacher was on Monday (April 9) sentenced to nine years in jail by an Indonesian court for inciting the suicide bombing in East Jakarta in May last year that killed three policemen.

Quote:

Inciting others to commit an act of terrorism is a crime in Indonesia punishable by death or life imprisonment.

https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/se-asia/indonesian-preacher-gets-nine-years-jail-for-inciting-suicide-bomb-attack-in-jakarta

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by freediver on Mar 20^th, 2019 at 1:22pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 20^th, 2019 at 9:47am:

freediver wrote on Mar 19^th, 2019 at 9:27pm:

Quote:

That the gaoling of one person on a particular trumped up charge for obvious political purposes, necessarily means that Indonesia is a self-censoring "Islamofascist oppressive shithole".

It is not the entirety. It is just one example of you taking a fraction and lying about it being the entirety. In the very same thread you also claimed the entirety of my argument was that the blasphemy law alone causes self censorship. Then you claimed my argument was that every single Indonesian self censors.

This is what you carry on with in order to polish the turd of Islam. Constant misrepresentation rather than acknowledge the reality.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by polite_gandalf on Mar 20^th, 2019 at 2:23pm

freediver wrote on Mar 20^th, 2019 at 1:22pm:

In the very same thread you also claimed the entirety of my argument was that the blasphemy law alone causes self censorship.

Not the law FD, the case.

The case of the gaoling of Ahok alone = the entirety of your argument that Indonesians (without any qualification) self censor, and that Indonesia is therefore an oppressive Islamofascist shithole.

You didn't once present any other evidence for these sweeping (and plainly ridiculous) claims, despite promising me that there were other cases. I suspect because you were too distracted hurling abuse at me as an apologist and turd polisher. I can but judge you only on what you actually say.

I realise now you are sensitive about this frankly absurd argument of yours - now that it is laid out for you to see. Of course most of the discussion wasn't you presenting your argument, it was you hurling abuse at me as an apologiser for Islamofascists and turd polishers, and now the hilarious accusation that its actually me thats misrepresenting and failing to acknowledge reality. That was about 90% of the discussion, sadly.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by freediver on Mar 20^th, 2019 at 9:11pm

This was yet another of your versions of "my only argument is...". You tried several in the same thread. It's like you think refusing to understand reality will make it go away.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by polite_gandalf on Mar 21^st, 2019 at 11:02am

freediver wrote on Mar 20^th, 2019 at 9:11pm:

This was yet another of your versions of "my only argument is...". You tried several in the same thread. It's like you think refusing to understand reality will make it go away.

One single case FD, thats all your argument is based on. I know you assured me there were others, but you never actually got round to citing any of them. I can but judge you only on what you actually say.

Perhaps you are thinking of the pages of ad-hominems falsely accusing me apologising for censorship, not understanding reality and being a turd polisher - and thinking that counts as part of your "argument"? It doesn't.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Karnal on Mar 21^st, 2019 at 12:45pm

No worries. Here's the perfect opportunity for FD to present his case.

FD? On what other evidence do you base your judgement that Indonesia an Islamofascist shthole?

Have you considered the Pew Survey?

No Cute and Cuddly Malaysia this time, please. It's a different country.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by polite_gandalf on Mar 21^st, 2019 at 1:15pm

Karnal wrote on Mar 21^st, 2019 at 12:45pm:

FD? On what other evidence do you base your judgement that Indonesia an Islamofascist shthole?

Now now K, FD shouldn't be expected to spoonfeed you what is so self evident. Its you who needs to provide a good reason why its *NOT* an Islamofascist shithole, doncha know?? Why are you so desperate to polish this turd? Do you always apologise for censorship, or only when it involves Islam? It's like you think refusing to understand reality will make it go away.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Karnal on Mar 21^st, 2019 at 9:59pm

Look, I'm sorry, G. I had no idea how insensitive I was being to decent white people everywhere. For heaven's sake, these people are tinted.

He's right, FD. You post the Pew Survey's statistic on C&CM. We'll blame Islam and call it a day, okay?

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by freediver on Mar 24^th, 2019 at 12:58pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 21^st, 2019 at 11:02am:

freediver wrote on Mar 20^th, 2019 at 9:11pm:

This was yet another of your versions of "my only argument is...". You tried several in the same thread. It's like you think refusing to understand reality will make it go away.

You also argued that my argument was based on the law alone. Another lie you told was that I argued that every single Indonesian was going to self censor. And I have already pointed out to you, as have others, that there are plenty of cases.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Karnal on Mar 24^th, 2019 at 1:06pm

freediver wrote on Mar 24^th, 2019 at 12:58pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 21^st, 2019 at 11:02am:

freediver wrote on Mar 20^th, 2019 at 9:11pm:

This was yet another of your versions of "my only argument is...". You tried several in the same thread. It's like you think refusing to understand reality will make it go away.

Cases?

Shurely shome mishtake.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by polite_gandalf on Mar 26^th, 2019 at 9:12am

freediver wrote on Mar 24^th, 2019 at 12:58pm:

And I have already pointed out to you, as have others, that there are plenty of cases.

Assuring me there are cases without any references is not a substitute for actual evidence FD. The fact remains your entire argument is based only on a single case and nothing more (apart from all the ad-homs and strawmen).

I can but judge you only on what you actually say.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by freediver on Mar 26^th, 2019 at 6:32pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 26^th, 2019 at 9:12am:

freediver wrote on Mar 24^th, 2019 at 12:58pm:

And I have already pointed out to you, as have others, that there are plenty of cases.

I said there were multiple cases.Other people have said there were multiple cases. You constantly misrepresent what I actually say. Indonesia, your 'exemplar' muslim majority nation, is yet another shithole of oppression, thanks to Islam, and all you can offer in response is failure to understand every single thing that is said to you.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Frank on Mar 26^th, 2019 at 8:48pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 26^th, 2019 at 9:12am:

freediver wrote on Mar 24^th, 2019 at 12:58pm:

And I have already pointed out to you, as have others, that there are plenty of cases.

Islam is the reason and justification for whatever oppression there is in these countries - Indonesia, Malaysia, the rest. .

Show us any non-Islamic oppression and you may have a point. Until then you don't.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Brian Ross on Mar 26^th, 2019 at 10:35pm

Christianity is the reason and justification for whatever oppression there is in these countries - the USA, Australia, the UK, the rest. .

Show us any Christian oppression and there is a point. ::) ::)

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Yadda on Mar 27^th, 2019 at 6:57am

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 26^th, 2019 at 10:35pm:

Christianity is the reason and justification for whatever oppression there is in these countries - the USA, Australia, the UK, the rest.

Show us any Christian oppression and there is a point. ::) ::)

So says, a person who proudly claims he has studied to receive ~~a Doctorate (PhD) of Divinity no less~~
"...I do have a Doctor of Divinity" CORRECTION, Yadda.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1487646898/242#242

Quote:

......I do have a Doctor of Divinity. And guess, what, we studied Christianity, extensively.

Perhaps brian is an advisor to Pappa Francis ???

Its not that far fetched.

:)

And another poster, greggery, also made a 'claim', here on OzPol.

In 2016, he made a firm commitment to all other posters, that he would not post again on OzPol [he would leave OzPol], if DJ Trump were elected president of the U.S.A. [so confident he was, that DJ Trump had no chance.]

Strangely, greggery, never did leave OzPol, and still posts here almost every day. ????????

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1473874288/212#212

.

Exemplary moslems [imo], both of them.

Its a duck.

Quack, quack.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Brian Ross on Mar 27^th, 2019 at 1:25pm

Yadda wrote on Mar 27^th, 2019 at 6:57am:

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 26^th, 2019 at 10:35pm:

So says, a person who proudly claims he has studied to receive a Doctorate (PhD) of Divinity no less.

No, I don't, Yadda. A Doctor of Divinity is a lower rank than a PhD. Time to catch up with the meaning of post-nominal qualifications, laddie. ::)

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Secret Wars on Mar 27^th, 2019 at 1:35pm

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 27^th, 2019 at 1:25pm:

Yadda wrote on Mar 27^th, 2019 at 6:57am:

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 26^th, 2019 at 10:35pm:

So says, a person who proudly claims he has studied to receive a Doctorate (PhD) of Divinity no less.

No, I don't, Yadda. A Doctor of Divinity is a lower rank than a PhD. Time to catch up with the meaning of postnumeral qualifications, laddie. ::)

It’s post-nominal ya dickhead. ::)

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Brian Ross on Mar 27^th, 2019 at 4:17pm

Secret Wars wrote on Mar 27^th, 2019 at 1:35pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 27^th, 2019 at 1:25pm:

Yadda wrote on Mar 27^th, 2019 at 6:57am:

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 26^th, 2019 at 10:35pm:

So says, a person who proudly claims he has studied to receive a Doctorate (PhD) of Divinity no less.

No, I don't, Yadda. A Doctor of Divinity is a lower rank than a PhD. Time to catch up with the meaning of postnumeral qualifications, laddie. ::)

It’s post-nominal ya dickhead. ::)

Bugger, you're right. I apologise. I will now correct the error in the original post. Silly me, hey? ::)

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Frank on Mar 27^th, 2019 at 6:43pm

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 27^th, 2019 at 4:17pm:

Silly me, hey? ::)

Like you haven't been told for years.....

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by polite_gandalf on Mar 28^th, 2019 at 11:47am

freediver wrote on Mar 26^th, 2019 at 6:32pm:

I said there were multiple cases.

Indeed you did. I'm wondering what point you are attempting to make here though.

If you think simply saying "The people in this country universally behave like this because stuff happened - multiple times" - is an actual argument, then I'm afraid you are sorely mistaken.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Karnal on Mar 28^th, 2019 at 12:54pm

Frank wrote on Mar 26^th, 2019 at 8:48pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 26^th, 2019 at 9:12am:

freediver wrote on Mar 24^th, 2019 at 12:58pm:

And I have already pointed out to you, as have others, that there are plenty of cases.

Malays are not a race.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by freediver on Mar 28^th, 2019 at 9:43pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 28^th, 2019 at 11:47am:

freediver wrote on Mar 26^th, 2019 at 6:32pm:

I said there were multiple cases.

My point is that you lied. I have to make it repeatedly because you have done little else than misrepresent my argument. I'm guessing now you will misrepresent this as the extent of my argument.

Indonesia, your 'exemplar' muslim majority nation, is yet another shithole of oppression, thanks to Islam, and all you can offer in response is failure to understand every single thing that is said to you.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Rhino on Mar 28^th, 2019 at 9:45pm

Karnal wrote on Mar 28^th, 2019 at 12:54pm:

Frank wrote on Mar 26^th, 2019 at 8:48pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 26^th, 2019 at 9:12am:

freediver wrote on Mar 24^th, 2019 at 12:58pm:

And I have already pointed out to you, as have others, that there are plenty of cases.

Malays are not a race.

You better let them know then, because not only do they consider themselves a race they have laws which perpetuate that belief. Google bumiputra.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by polite_gandalf on Mar 29^th, 2019 at 7:57am

freediver wrote on Mar 28^th, 2019 at 9:43pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 28^th, 2019 at 11:47am:

freediver wrote on Mar 26^th, 2019 at 6:32pm:

I said there were multiple cases.

FD you spent about 10 pages accusing me of supporting Islamofascists and apologising for censorship and attempting to put a positive spin on the gaoling of Ahok - all because I dared asked for evidence for your claim that Indonesians universally self censor and that the entire country is an Islamofascist shithole. You not only misrepresented me, you did it as part of your usual ad-hominem game of attacking the person, not the argument. You continue to do it now.

So I hardly think you are in any position to play the poor victim of misrepresentation here.

Also, that one case was the extent of your argument. Saying 'oh but I casually said there were other cases' (without actually citing any) - does not change this fact one iota.

To summarise FD's argument:

- Indonesia cannot possibly have any healthy free market of religious debate - because of Ahok
- Indonesia is in fact an Islamofascist shithole because people self-censor en masse - because of Ahok
- Islamic extremists can say whatever they like about Islam (laughable) - presumably because of Ahok
- don't accuse me of basing all this only because of Ahok - because there are other cases - I just won't cite any.

The above constitutes about 5% of what you have written in this inane topic. The other 95% has been the usual ad-hominem against the resident muslim - consisting of the most outrageous misrepresentation of me as a supporter of Islamofascism and apologiser of censorship.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by polite_gandalf on Mar 29^th, 2019 at 8:00am

rhino wrote on Mar 28^th, 2019 at 9:45pm:

Karnal wrote on Mar 28^th, 2019 at 12:54pm:

Frank wrote on Mar 26^th, 2019 at 8:48pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 26^th, 2019 at 9:12am:

freediver wrote on Mar 24^th, 2019 at 12:58pm:

And I have already pointed out to you, as have others, that there are plenty of cases.

Malays are not a race.

You better let them know then, because not only do they consider themselves a race they have laws which perpetuate that belief. Google bumiputra.

He is being ironic.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by freediver on Mar 29^th, 2019 at 12:32pm

Quote:

Asking for evidence is absurd enough as it is, as if putting people in jail for blasphemy might not lead to self censorship. But you did go further than that, arguing that it would not.

Did you ever explain what evidence you might accept? Does quoting people not saying things count?

You polish, so that others may eat.

Quote:

Also, that one case was the extent of your argument.

There you go again, misrepresenting my argument. It was an example Gandalf. Just as this is but one example of the various BS "extent of my argument" claims you have made, all in some quixotic attempt to avoid addressing the reality that Indonesia, your 'exemplar' muslim majority nation, is yet another shithole of oppression, thanks to Islam, and all you can offer in response is failure to understand every single thing that is said to you.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by polite_gandalf on Mar 29^th, 2019 at 2:18pm

freediver wrote on Mar 29^th, 2019 at 12:32pm:

Did you ever explain what evidence you might accept? Does quoting people not saying things count?

surveys asking how open muslims are to different opinions on Islam, or their view of blasphemy laws - or even any surveys done in the wake of Ahok's gaoling as to how influential it was in determining how they publicly discuss Islam. That would be the most obvious way.

But you could also reference political representation in Indonesia as something resembling an indicative snapshot of society (and by extension their attitudes). Naturally though you will wisely steer clear of this one - as the Islamist extremists are resoundingly rejected in all spheres of Indonesian politics, in favour of secular parties.

It should be obvious that what is not acceptable for any kind of coherent argument, is to simply cite a single high profile example of someone being censored and declare that as the only thing required to prove the entire society is a self-censoring Islamofascist shithole.

freediver wrote on Mar 29^th, 2019 at 12:32pm:

It was an example Gandalf.

Thats called evidence FD. Thats how you conduct an argument - by backing up your claims with evidence, in this case an example. In case you are still unclear, this is the only attempt at evidence you have actually produced - and in fact isn't evidence at all, since you never linked the gaoling to any demonstrated behaviour of Indonesians society wide.

freediver wrote on Mar 29^th, 2019 at 12:32pm:

Just as this is but one example of the various BS "extent of my argument" claims you have made, all in some quixotic attempt to avoid addressing the reality that Indonesia, your 'exemplar' muslim majority nation, is yet another shithole of oppression

Ah is that what you call it? Pointing out that you literally have nothing but a single high profile case (example) to substantiate your claim that Indonesia is a "shithole of oppression" - is a "quixotic attempt to avoid addressing the reality".

FD did you notice that your last 7 replies have consisted of nothing but "you're lying gandalf, so unfair you misrepresent me" - but not offering any refutation to the simple fact that this "argument" is indeed based on a single example? Its like you really really need to object to what I say - but don't actually have anything to refute. Strange.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by moses on Mar 29^th, 2019 at 4:19pm

When you think about it, the best thing to ever happen to Europe was their own stupidy in dealing with the muslim refugee problem.

The hard core leftards in Europe are now faced with the facts of islamic rape thieving and murder in their homeland.

It is coming as sure as the sun comes up in the east, one day the world will turn on islam and demand it be purged of the depravity in its' doctrine.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by freediver on Mar 29^th, 2019 at 7:46pm

Quote:

So the only evidence you would accept is evidence that does not exist?

Quote:

But you could also reference political representation in Indonesia as something resembling an indicative snapshot of society (and by extension their attitudes).

WTF would that prove?

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Frank on Mar 29^th, 2019 at 9:24pm

freediver wrote on Mar 29^th, 2019 at 7:46pm:

Quote:

So the only evidence you would accept is evidence that does not exist?

[quote]But you could also reference political representation in Indonesia as something resembling an indicative snapshot of society (and by extension their attitudes).

WTF would that prove?[/quote]
That Islamic propaganda is eye wash.
Taqiyya. Tactical dissemblance.

Islam is prophetically dishonest. Something called Submission - NOT peace- will never be honest and truthful.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Yadda on Mar 29^th, 2019 at 9:49pm

Frank wrote on Mar 29^th, 2019 at 9:24pm:

Islam is prophetically dishonest.

ISLAM is problematically, and fundamentally, dishonest.

fundamental = = of or serving as a foundation or core; of central importance.

" The Prophet said, "War is deceit." "
hadith/bukhari/ #004.052.269

And the Allah of ISLAM, has declared a never-ending war, upon all of disbelieving mankind.

.

EXAMPLE, DECEIT;

IMAGE...

Sheikh Yassir al-Burhami

Quote:

How Circumstance Dictates Islamic Behavior

January 18, 2012

Preach Peace When Weak, Wage War When Strong

"...all notions of peace with non-Muslims are based on circumstance.

When Muslims are weak, they should be peaceful; when strong, they should go on the offensive."

Sheikh Yassir al-Burhami - an ISLAMIC scholar and Egyptian Salafi leader
http://www.raymondibrahim.com/from-the-arab-world/how-circumstance-dictates-islamic-behavior/

.

EXAMPLE, DECEIT;

Quote:

Live in peace till strong enough to wage jihad, says UK Deoband scholar to Muslims
London, Sept.8 [2007]

A Deobandi scholar believes Muslims should preach peace till they are strong enough to undertake a jihad, or a holy war.

Justice Muhammad Taqi Usmani was quoted by the BBC as saying that Muslims should live peacefully in countries such as Britain, where they have the freedom to practise Islam, only until they gain enough power to engage in battle.

A former Sharia judge in Pakistan's Supreme Court, 64-year-old Usmani, is...a regular visitor to Britain.
Polite and softly spoken....

He agreed that it was wrong to suggest that the entire non-Muslim world was intent on destroying Islam, but justifies an aggressive military jihad as a means of establishing global Islamic supremacy.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article2409833.ece

.

EXAMPLE, DECEIT;

Quote:

A Study in Muslim Doctrine

"...while sincere friendship with non-Muslims is forbidden,

insincere friendship - whenever beneficial to Muslims - is not."

http://www.meforum.org/2512/nidal-hasan-fort-hood-muslim-doctrine

.

EXAMPLE, DECEIT;

Google,
we smile to the face "while our hearts curse them"

.

IMAGE.....

Ali Kadri - Islamic Council of Queensland vice-president,
features in The Mosque Next Door on SBS.

Quote:

"There's no underlying religious text or reasons why [moslems] go out and kill people......"

- Ali Kadri
------- >
https://www.northernstar.com.au/news/we-wont-stop-terrorist-attacks-by-blaming-islam/3259588/

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by polite_gandalf on Apr 1^st, 2019 at 1:43pm

freediver wrote on Mar 29^th, 2019 at 7:46pm:

Quote:

WTF would that prove?[/quote]

Why would it not exist? All you would have to find is a survey where Indonesians widely support gaoling for blasphemy and similar anti-freedom sentiments. That would at least be something, and infinitely better than just saying "it is because it is" and hurling strawmen and ad-homs.

And the political representation of a democratic country gives a pretty good snapshot of the ideals and values of the society it represents. Certainly electing a secular mayor who stared down Islamists while advocating the building of churches - intuitively seems inconsistent with a society that is an "Islamofascist oppresive shithole"

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Yadda on Apr 1^st, 2019 at 4:41pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 1^st, 2019 at 1:43pm:

And the political representation of a democratic country gives a pretty good snapshot of the ideals and values of the society it represents. Certainly electing a secular mayor who stared down Islamists while advocating the building of churches - intuitively seems inconsistent with a society that is an "Islamofascist oppresive shithole"

gandalf,

Who in particular, are you alluding to ?

Because that is all that you are doing.

Alluding to something or someone, who may not exist. !!!!

WWW search....
Indonesia, secular mayor who advocating the building of churches

.....gets no hits of that description.

gandalf,

If you are referring to that Indonesian, Christian governor, of Jakarta, Ahok,
then why don't you refer to him by name, so that we can confirm or rebut your statement ???

Oh, and by the way gandalf, that Christian governor, of Jakarta, Ahok, did NOT 'stare down ISLAMISTS'.

He was arrested and charged with blasphemy against Allah's religion, for publicly quoting a verse from the Koran.

Apparently to do such a thing, in Indonesia, is a crime, because only followers of ISLAM are permitted in law, to publicly quote verses from the Koran.

??????

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by polite_gandalf on Apr 1^st, 2019 at 6:43pm

Yadda wrote on Apr 1^st, 2019 at 4:41pm:

gandalf,

Who in particular, are you alluding to ?

Because that is all that you are doing.

Alluding to something or someone, who may not exist. !!!!

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-indonesia-elections-islamists/islamists-fail-to-sway-regional-indonesian-elections-idUSKBN1JO1GI

Rahmat Effendi, the mayor of Bekasi, a city of 2.7 million on the fringes of the capital Jakarta, is on course to be re-elected after winning about 68 per cent of the vote in Wednesday’s elections based on unofficial quick counts.

Effendi, a Muslim, faced sustained criticism from hardliners for approving the building of the Santa Clara church in the staunchly Muslim city after 17 years of rebuffs by local authorities.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Yadda on Apr 1^st, 2019 at 7:09pm

@ Reply #64,

Thank you gandalf.

Comment; 'One swallow does not a summer make...'

Examples [of ISLAM's 'winter' of oppression's].....

http://www.jihadwatch.org/category/Indonesia/

http://www.jihadwatch.org/category/Malaysia/

Look here, for many examples of how, an ISLAMIC majority culture influences a society, for the worse.....

------ >

THE RELIGION OF PEACE
http://thereligionofpeace.com/

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by freediver on Apr 1^st, 2019 at 8:04pm

Quote:

Why would it not exist? All you would have to find is a survey where Indonesians widely support gaoling for blasphemy and similar anti-freedom sentiments. That would at least be something, and infinitely better than just saying "it is because it is" and hurling strawmen and ad-homs.

Are you aware of any surveys on how influential Ahok's jailing was on how people publicly discuss Islam?

People self censoring after others get jailed for blasphemy is stating the bleeding obvious Gandalf. Demanding evidence is a futile exercise in turd polishing.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by polite_gandalf on Apr 2^nd, 2019 at 8:23am

freediver wrote on Apr 1^st, 2019 at 8:04pm:

People self censoring after others get jailed for blasphemy is stating the bleeding obvious Gandalf

No really it isn't FD. For all the reasons I've stated before.

You can start with how many Indonesians are actually even aware of this case? And of those how many are smart enough to understand the cynicism of it?

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Karnal on Apr 2^nd, 2019 at 8:30am

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2019 at 8:23am:

freediver wrote on Apr 1^st, 2019 at 8:04pm:

People self censoring after others get jailed for blasphemy is stating the bleeding obvious Gandalf

Or he could quote the Pew Survey on Islamic attitudes in Indonesia.

For some reason, FD goes all quiet whenever you mention that.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Yadda on Apr 2^nd, 2019 at 9:05am

Karnal wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2019 at 8:30am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2019 at 8:23am:

freediver wrote on Apr 1^st, 2019 at 8:04pm:

People self censoring after others get jailed for blasphemy is stating the bleeding obvious Gandalf

Or he could quote the Pew Survey on Islamic attitudes in Indonesia.

What influence, does ISLAM have, upon the followers of ISLAM, in Indonesia ?

Oh i don't know, karnal.

What other 'indicators' may reveal the degree of that influence ??

WWW search....
churches destroyed in Indonesia

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by polite_gandalf on Apr 2^nd, 2019 at 9:19am

Karnal wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2019 at 8:30am:

Or he could quote the Pew Survey on Islamic attitudes in Indonesia.

Nothing directly relevant, but we get some indication:

Death penalty for leaving Islam - 18%
support for religious freedom - 93%

no indication whatsoever to support the view that (Indonesians believe) people shouldn't be allowed to have robust debate about religion and/or that opinion that diverges away from Islamic orthodoxy should be banned and perpetrators gaoled.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Karnal on Apr 2^nd, 2019 at 11:10am

Yadda wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2019 at 9:05am:

Karnal wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2019 at 8:30am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2019 at 8:23am:

freediver wrote on Apr 1^st, 2019 at 8:04pm:

People self censoring after others get jailed for blasphemy is stating the bleeding obvious Gandalf

Or he could quote the Pew Survey on Islamic attitudes in Indonesia.

I know the answer to that one, Y.

Moslem == a follower of Islam.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Karnal on Apr 2^nd, 2019 at 11:13am

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2019 at 9:19am:

Karnal wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2019 at 8:30am:

Or he could quote the Pew Survey on Islamic attitudes in Indonesia.

Indeed. I believe the correct term is Islamofascism.

Still, FD has his Negroid subspecies evidence - a "plausible theory".

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by freediver on Apr 2^nd, 2019 at 12:07pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2019 at 8:23am:

freediver wrote on Apr 1^st, 2019 at 8:04pm:

People self censoring after others get jailed for blasphemy is stating the bleeding obvious Gandalf

Why would they not be aware of it Gandalf?

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by polite_gandalf on Apr 2^nd, 2019 at 12:41pm

freediver wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2019 at 12:07pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2019 at 8:23am:

freediver wrote on Apr 1^st, 2019 at 8:04pm:

People self censoring after others get jailed for blasphemy is stating the bleeding obvious Gandalf

Why would they not be aware of it Gandalf?

Because Indonesia is still basically a third world country with limited access to news broadcasts. Its not like it was the President of Indonesia.

I'll wager the case got more coverage in Australia than it did there.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Karnal on Apr 2^nd, 2019 at 12:43pm

freediver wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2019 at 12:07pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2019 at 8:23am:

freediver wrote on Apr 1^st, 2019 at 8:04pm:

People self censoring after others get jailed for blasphemy is stating the bleeding obvious Gandalf

Why would they not be aware of it Gandalf?

Yes, G, you show FD which Indonesians aren't aware of it.

And stop bringing up the Pew Survey, please. You're only supposed to quote figures on Cute and Cuddly Malaysia.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Karnal on Apr 2^nd, 2019 at 12:47pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2019 at 12:41pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2019 at 12:07pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2019 at 8:23am:

freediver wrote on Apr 1^st, 2019 at 8:04pm:

People self censoring after others get jailed for blasphemy is stating the bleeding obvious Gandalf

Why would they not be aware of it Gandalf?

It's also an archipelago with over 300 languages. Java is just one of 17,508 Islands.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by freediver on Apr 2^nd, 2019 at 8:11pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2019 at 12:41pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2019 at 12:07pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2019 at 8:23am:

freediver wrote on Apr 1^st, 2019 at 8:04pm:

People self censoring after others get jailed for blasphemy is stating the bleeding obvious Gandalf

Why would they not be aware of it Gandalf?

So despite being a shithole of oppression, Indonesia is redeemed by being a third world country in which the subsistence Islanders are blissfully unaware of the creeping Islamofascism in their own country?

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Frank on Apr 2^nd, 2019 at 8:51pm

freediver wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2019 at 8:11pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2019 at 12:41pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2019 at 12:07pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2019 at 8:23am:

freediver wrote on Apr 1^st, 2019 at 8:04pm:

People self censoring after others get jailed for blasphemy is stating the bleeding obvious Gandalf

Why would they not be aware of it Gandalf?

You got it. Arguing with Muslims like Gandalf is like handling eels in oil. Dishonesty is their opening gambit followed by endless deception and dishonesty. And it's all Koranic so it's superior lying.

.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Yadda on Apr 2^nd, 2019 at 10:58pm

Frank wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2019 at 8:51pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2019 at 8:11pm:

You got it.

Arguing with Muslims like Gandalf is like handling eels in oil.

Dishonesty is their opening gambit followed by endless deception and dishonesty.

And it's all Koranic so it's superior lying.

So Frank,

Did mention, that i was a collector of quotes ! ? ;)

:)

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by polite_gandalf on Apr 3^rd, 2019 at 9:43am

freediver wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2019 at 8:11pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2019 at 12:41pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2019 at 12:07pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2019 at 8:23am:

freediver wrote on Apr 1^st, 2019 at 8:04pm:

People self censoring after others get jailed for blasphemy is stating the bleeding obvious Gandalf

Why would they not be aware of it Gandalf?

*sniff sniff* whats that? Smells like straw...

You are not disagreeing with the actual point I am making - nor even addressing it.

You have made no case whatsoever for why one regional incident necessarily had such a significant effect on self censorship across the vast entirety of Indonesian society, as massive and disparate as it is, and how difficult communication must be between it.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by polite_gandalf on Apr 3^rd, 2019 at 10:00am

Frank wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2019 at 8:51pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2019 at 8:11pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2019 at 12:41pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2019 at 12:07pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2019 at 8:23am:

freediver wrote on Apr 1^st, 2019 at 8:04pm:

People self censoring after others get jailed for blasphemy is stating the bleeding obvious Gandalf

Why would they not be aware of it Gandalf?

Which of course is a dilemma that will never affect you Frank - since you don't partake in any actual arguments - you just respond to everything with your "never ever" scripts, sprinkled in with healthy doses of personal insults.

Which is a shame really, you're obviously capable of far better...

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Frank on Apr 3^rd, 2019 at 6:32pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2019 at 10:00am:

Frank wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2019 at 8:51pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2019 at 8:11pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2019 at 12:41pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2019 at 12:07pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2019 at 8:23am:

freediver wrote on Apr 1^st, 2019 at 8:04pm:

People self censoring after others get jailed for blasphemy is stating the bleeding obvious Gandalf

Why would they not be aware of it Gandalf?

I take Islam to be the manifestation of Muslims's actions, not your weaselly dishonest words.

Muslims' actions condemn Islam and you words, no matter how often repeated, cannot whitewash Islam.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Karnal on Apr 3^rd, 2019 at 7:35pm

Frank wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2019 at 6:32pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2019 at 10:00am:

Frank wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2019 at 8:51pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2019 at 8:11pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2019 at 12:41pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2019 at 12:07pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2019 at 8:23am:

freediver wrote on Apr 1^st, 2019 at 8:04pm:

People self censoring after others get jailed for blasphemy is stating the bleeding obvious Gandalf

Why would they not be aware of it Gandalf?

I take Islam to be the manifestation of Muslims's actions, not your weaselly dishonest words.

There you go, G. I think we know who the REAL Moslem is here, no?

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Frank on Apr 3^rd, 2019 at 7:44pm

madly dogmatic, murderous.

No room for 'well, on the other hand'.

Shoot, slash.

Reverent Islam is a psychotic state. To be a fully signed up Muslim is to be a psychotic.

Same for Cathlolics, of curse. And Hindus and Buddhists and Jews.

Madness.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by freediver on Apr 3^rd, 2019 at 7:59pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2019 at 9:43am:

freediver wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2019 at 8:11pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2019 at 12:41pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2019 at 12:07pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2019 at 8:23am:

freediver wrote on Apr 1^st, 2019 at 8:04pm:

People self censoring after others get jailed for blasphemy is stating the bleeding obvious Gandalf

Why would they not be aware of it Gandalf?

Why would you describe the jailing of the governor of Indonesia's capital city as a "regional incident"? The city has 10 million people - roughly half of Australia's population.

Do they have telephones in Indonesia? How about televisions and radios?

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Karnal on Apr 3^rd, 2019 at 11:04pm

Frank wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2019 at 7:44pm:

They're tinted.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by polite_gandalf on Apr 4^th, 2019 at 9:03am

freediver wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2019 at 7:59pm:

The city has 10 million people - roughly half of Australia's population.

The country has over 260 million people, roughly 10 times Australia's population.

Do you think all of them, or even most of them had their eyes glued to the TV watching the Ahok trial? Roughly what percentage of the country even knew about it? Interesting you refuse to even address this rather pertinent question.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by polite_gandalf on Apr 4^th, 2019 at 9:06am

Frank wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2019 at 6:32pm:

I take Islam to be the manifestation of Muslims's actions,

Thats true Frank - if by "muslim's actions" you mean a tiny minority of Muslim's actions.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Yadda on Apr 4^th, 2019 at 9:19am

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 4^th, 2019 at 9:06am:

Frank wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2019 at 6:32pm:

I take Islam to be the manifestation of Muslims's actions,

Thats true Frank - if by "muslim's actions" you mean a tiny minority of Muslim's actions.

A 'tiny minority' of moslems, seeking to fight and kill infidels ?

Yeah gandalf, what harm, can a 'tiny minority', A HANDFUL, of moslems do, to us infidels ?

1200 × 938
IMAGE.....

.

And three drops of sewage, put into a clean glass of water won't hurt you if you drink it.

/sarc off

Quote:

"IMO, if we join what is precious with what is vile, we do not in that act, 'improve' that which is vile.

We merely corrupt that which is precious.....

.....e.g.
I have two buckets.
The first bucket is full of clean, fresh water.
The second bucket is full of sewage.

Q.
If i pour both buckets into a third container, what do i get?

A.
A third container, full of diluted sewage.

Conclusion?
While i could safely drink from the 1st bucket, i could *not* safely drink from the 2nd bucket, or the 3rd container.

So it is with evil, that is 'tolerated' by good people.

No matter how many times we repeat the phrase, "Tolerance is good.",
...our tolerance of what is clearly evil, is not a virtue.

It is a process, a progression."

see also.....

Quote:

Nicolai Sennels: Psychology: Why Islam creates monsters

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2013/09/nicolai-sennels-psychology-why-islam-creates-monsters

.

For example, regarding Western nations accepting increasing numbers of immigrants, who are also PRACTICING moslems,
do the native peoples of most Western nations know anything substantial, about ISLAM, and about ISLAMIC laws and culture ?

e.g.
Do they know;
....that ISLAMIC law teaches believers that it is lawful, for a moslem man to rape non-moslem girls/women ? - because Mohammed did it too [ISLAMIC texts], and Mohammed is held, culturally, to be the ISLAMIC example, of lawful behaviour.

This is 100% true.

WWW search....
muslim rape epidemic, europe

WWW search....
"rape jihad"

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Karnal on Apr 4^th, 2019 at 11:14am

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 4^th, 2019 at 9:06am:

Frank wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2019 at 6:32pm:

I take Islam to be the manifestation of Muslims's actions,

Thats true Frank - if by "muslim's actions" you mean a tiny minority of Muslim's actions.

A tiny minority of Muslims, Hindoos and Buddhists.

Not Christians and Joos. Oh, no.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by freediver on Apr 4^th, 2019 at 12:31pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 4^th, 2019 at 9:03am:

freediver wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2019 at 7:59pm:

The city has 10 million people - roughly half of Australia's population.

What I think is that you were lying when you argued they would not even be aware of it. Don't try to pretend that I must be taking an opposite but equally misleading position to you just because I pull you up on your lies.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Karnal on Apr 4^th, 2019 at 12:52pm

freediver wrote on Apr 4^th, 2019 at 12:31pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 4^th, 2019 at 9:03am:

freediver wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2019 at 7:59pm:

The city has 10 million people - roughly half of Australia's population.

Have you considered a look at the polls, FD?

Perhaps the Pew Survey might have something.

That's a question.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by polite_gandalf on Apr 4^th, 2019 at 1:21pm

freediver wrote on Apr 4^th, 2019 at 12:31pm:

So what position are you taking FD? Apart from taking the opportunity in every single post to accuse me of lying and hurling vitriolic ad-hominem, we really haven't heard much of an actual argument.

This might be a good opportunity for you to explain what point you were actually trying to make when you referred to Jakarta's population and insisted its more than a mere 'region'. It seemed to be as a counterpoint to my scepticism about how influential this one case was on self censorship throughout Indonesia. You *SEEMED* to be implying that the influence must be substantial, given the prominence and size of Jakarta.

Yet when I ask you to clarify further how influential you think it was, I get the usual "you're lying" routine. If only you could be less defensive and actually engage in a proper civil discussion.

So perhaps you can have another go... exactly what were trying to point out when you responded to my scepticism about the case's influence on wider Indonesia society, by pointing out that it happened in a city with about 3% of Indonesia's vast and disparate population?

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Karnal on Apr 4^th, 2019 at 4:00pm

But answer my question first, FD. We're waiting.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Frank on Apr 4^th, 2019 at 5:14pm

Worth hearing:
https://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/religionandethicsreport/religious-identity-and-indoneisa-election/10966972

Indonesians are in the final fortnight of their election campaign.
President Joko Widodo – also known Jokowi – is in a re-run against his old rival Prabowo Subianto
And this time their contest has a pronounced religious tone.

Once a hero of liberals, Jowkowi has now named an Islamic preacher as his running mate.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Frank on Apr 4^th, 2019 at 5:49pm

Karnal wrote on Apr 4^th, 2019 at 11:14am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 4^th, 2019 at 9:06am:

Frank wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2019 at 6:32pm:

I take Islam to be the manifestation of Muslims's actions,

Thats true Frank - if by "muslim's actions" you mean a tiny minority of Muslim's actions.

A tiny minority of Muslims, Hindoos and Buddhists.

Not Christians and Joos. Oh, no.

The 'vast majority' is content to bide its time. Happy to enter Western countries and out-breed them over a couple of generations. A slower route to the caliphate but nevertheless Islamic domination is the aim of the minority and the majority. Being open, democratic is not the aim of either - they would work on that in their own countries and communities if it was. They don't because it isn't. No room for that under Submission.

Submission has always been an expansionist creed aiming for complete domination over the world. They are doing it demographically by rapidly gaining decisive demographic significance is many western countries that have non-discriminatory Immigration.

Will it be Brussels, Malmo or Marseilles the first Submission-majority major European city?

Some Northern English town are already such:

Savile Town and Ravensthorpe are populated mainly by Muslims of Indian and Pakistani origin. In recent years, there has also been an immigration of Iraqi Kurds and Hungarians into the town.[17] Dewsbury has been accused of having a controversial Shariah arbitration court.[18] The Dewsbury Moor, Ravensthorpe and Chickenley areas are classed among the 10% most deprived areas in the UK.[19] In contrast to some British towns and cities, the east side of the town is generally more affluent. The majority of houses in the town are in the cheapest band for council tax, for house prices are amongst the lowest in the country.[20]

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by freediver on Apr 4^th, 2019 at 8:13pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 4^th, 2019 at 1:21pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 4^th, 2019 at 12:31pm:

Sorry, I must have left that out.

Indonesia is a shithole of oppression, thanks to Islam. Ahok is a good example.

Your talk of a healthy free market of ideas when it comes to interpreting Islam only applies in non-Muslim-majority countries, because it is anathema to Islam, and a Muslim majorty inevitably makes it impossible. It is just more Islamic turd polishing.

Your attempts to downplay blasphemy in Indonesia, for example by arguing that Indonesians would not even be aware of Ahok's jailing, is another example of Islamic turd polishing.

Your attempts to misrepresent my argument in every conceivable way were attempts at deflection.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Auggie on Apr 4^th, 2019 at 8:40pm

freediver wrote on Apr 4^th, 2019 at 8:13pm:

Indonesia is a shithole of oppression, thanks to Islam.

Honduras is a shithole of oppression, thanks to Catholicism.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Karnal on Apr 4^th, 2019 at 8:43pm

freediver wrote on Apr 4^th, 2019 at 8:13pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 4^th, 2019 at 1:21pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 4^th, 2019 at 12:31pm:

Don't want to say, eh?

What sound does a jellyfish make?

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by polite_gandalf on Apr 5^th, 2019 at 7:51am

freediver wrote on Apr 4^th, 2019 at 8:13pm:

Sorry, I must have left that out.

Indonesia is a shithole of oppression, thanks to Islam. Ahok is a good example.

So, literally no actual argument then. Thanks for confirming :)

This post is a good snapshot of about 2 months of your posting on this subject: one inane, meaningless line that says nothing at all but apparently passes for an "argument", followed by 2 or 3 paragraphs of ad-hom, attacking the person not the argument, and falsely complaining about being misrepresented.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by polite_gandalf on Apr 5^th, 2019 at 7:56am

Auggie wrote on Apr 4^th, 2019 at 8:40pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 4^th, 2019 at 8:13pm:

Indonesia is a shithole of oppression, thanks to Islam.

Honduras is a shithole of oppression, thanks to Catholicism.

Australia is a shithole of oppression thanks to judaism. Frederic Toben is a good example.

wot?

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by moses on Apr 5^th, 2019 at 3:00pm

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Frank on Apr 5^th, 2019 at 5:22pm

Auggie wrote on Apr 4^th, 2019 at 8:40pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 4^th, 2019 at 8:13pm:

Indonesia is a shithole of oppression, thanks to Islam.

Honduras is a shithole of oppression, thanks to Catholicism.

Which in no way contradicts that Islam is a shitehole because of Islam. Idiots like you and shiteholes like Honduras and Indonesia come in many shapes and sizes.
You and Indonesia just happen to be bigger than the others.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by John Smith on Apr 5^th, 2019 at 5:26pm

freediver wrote on Apr 4^th, 2019 at 8:13pm:

Your attempts to misrepresent my argument in every conceivable way were attempts at deflection.

did FD really say that?

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by freediver on Apr 5^th, 2019 at 5:40pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 5^th, 2019 at 7:51am:

freediver wrote on Apr 4^th, 2019 at 8:13pm:

Sorry, I must have left that out.

Indonesia is a shithole of oppression, thanks to Islam. Ahok is a good example.

Are you removing parts of my post to alter the meaning so you can pretend I have no argument?

I think this is the third time in this thread you have asked me what my argument is, then ignored most or all of my response.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Karnal on Apr 5^th, 2019 at 7:59pm

moses wrote on Apr 5^th, 2019 at 3:00pm:

Nigeria's majority Christian. I had no idea they were at war.

So I'm curious. Where does all you terrorism happen?

Thoughts?

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by freediver on Apr 5^th, 2019 at 8:03pm

Quote:

Nigeria's majority Christian.

Oh look, Islam.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communal_conflicts_in_Nigeria

Communal conflicts in Nigeria[3] can be divided into two broad categories:[4][dubious – discuss]

ethnic conflicts, attributed to actors primarily divided by cultural, ethnic, or religious communities and identities, such as instances of religious violence between Christian and Muslim communities

Who says you need a majority for violence to break out?

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Karnal on Apr 5^th, 2019 at 8:18pm

freediver wrote on Apr 5^th, 2019 at 8:03pm:

Quote:

Nigeria's majority Christian.

Are you saying Christianity is part of the problem there, FD?

To date, you've avoided all mention of our little white supremacist problem down here in Australasia. Do you think Christianity is to blame, Islam, or something a little more sinister?

That's a question.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Auggie on Apr 5^th, 2019 at 8:23pm

Frank wrote on Apr 5^th, 2019 at 5:22pm:

Auggie wrote on Apr 4^th, 2019 at 8:40pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 4^th, 2019 at 8:13pm:

Indonesia is a shithole of oppression, thanks to Islam.

Honduras is a shithole of oppression, thanks to Catholicism.

So, you'll admit that Honduras is a shithole due to Catholicism??

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Yadda on Apr 5^th, 2019 at 9:09pm

Yadda said.....

Quote:

Q.
Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?

So, it isn't Indonesia.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1552398731/6#6

gandalf,

Would you like to proffer any other candidate, as an 'exemplar' moslem majority nation, in the world today ?

~~Brunei, perhaps ?~~

Nah, that's 'not on'.

I can't see gandalf nominating Brunei, ...today.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by freediver on Apr 5^th, 2019 at 9:16pm

Karnal wrote on Apr 5^th, 2019 at 8:18pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 5^th, 2019 at 8:03pm:

Quote:

Nigeria's majority Christian.

Can't be blame GWB, and hence Christianity, for all of them?

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Karnal on Apr 5^th, 2019 at 9:22pm

freediver wrote on Apr 5^th, 2019 at 9:16pm:

Karnal wrote on Apr 5^th, 2019 at 8:18pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 5^th, 2019 at 8:03pm:

Quote:

Nigeria's majority Christian.

Can't be blame GWB, and hence Christianity, for all of them?

Would you like to answer the question?

That's a question.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Yadda on Apr 5^th, 2019 at 9:28pm

Karnal wrote on Apr 5^th, 2019 at 8:18pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 5^th, 2019 at 8:03pm:

Quote:

Nigeria's majority Christian.

Are you saying Christianity is part of the problem there, FD?

To date, you've avoided all mention of our little white supremacist problem down here in Australasia.

Do you think Christianity is to blame, Islam, or something a little more sinister?

That's a question.

Karnal,

"...our little white supremacist problem down here in Australasia." isn't tearing this nation apart at the seems yet.

.....there just aren't enough followers of ISLAM living here, in Australia, for that to happen [just yet].

That's my opinion.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by moses on Apr 6^th, 2019 at 1:40pm

karnal wrote:

Quote:

Nigeria's majority Christian. I had no idea they were at war.

So I'm curious. Where does all you terrorism happen?

You've not heard of Boko Haram or Jamā'at Ahl as-Sunnah lid-Da'wah wa'l-Jihād (ISWA) etc., in the present day war against islamic terrorism in Nigeria?

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Karnal on Apr 6^th, 2019 at 3:21pm

moses wrote on Apr 6^th, 2019 at 1:40pm:

karnal wrote:

Quote:

Nigeria's majority Christian. I had no idea they were at war.

So I'm curious. Where does all you terrorism happen?

You've not heard of Boko Haram or Jamā'at Ahl as-Sunnah lid-Da'wah wa'l-Jihād (ISWA) etc., in the present day war against islamic terrorism in Nigeria?

Not much, Moses, no.

You have. You get your news from Jihadwatch, no?

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by .JaSin. on Apr 6^th, 2019 at 6:45pm

Islam + Israel = IstarI (pronounced: "i-star-i")

...and when that happens, the 'united' Kindom better watch out. By that time - Germany, France and Italy will have forfeited their 'Christian' pasts. ;)

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Yadda on Apr 6^th, 2019 at 7:36pm

Jasin wrote on Apr 6^th, 2019 at 6:45pm:

JaSin bot,

IMO, the content of many of your posts are still failing the Turing Test.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_test

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by .JaSin. on Apr 6^th, 2019 at 8:58pm

Yadda wrote on Apr 6^th, 2019 at 7:36pm:

Jasin wrote on Apr 6^th, 2019 at 6:45pm:

JaSin bot,

IMO, the content of many of your posts are still failing the Turing Test.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_test

No YADDA.
I'm a 'Day Ahead' Australian, not a 'Down Under' one.
America may be 'up there', but it is way back there at the 'End of the World'. Time and Space. ;)

So my previous post is a description of the future that 'will' come and the reason why it 'will', is because its been 2000 years of the Tide going out and now its coming back in from where it came. So you see. Very predictable ;)

So YADDA.
How's it feel to be a Christian? He who 'stole' Religion from the Jews in the Middle-East and took it to Europe and wonder's why Moslems were invented to 'get it back'.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Setanta on Apr 6^th, 2019 at 8:59pm

Karnal wrote on Apr 6^th, 2019 at 3:21pm:

moses wrote on Apr 6^th, 2019 at 1:40pm:

karnal wrote:

Quote:

Nigeria's majority Christian. I had no idea they were at war.

So I'm curious. Where does all you terrorism happen?

You've not heard of Boko Haram or Jamā'at Ahl as-Sunnah lid-Da'wah wa'l-Jihād (ISWA) etc., in the present day war against islamic terrorism in Nigeria?

Not much, Moses, no.

You have. You get your news from Jihadwatch, no?

You prefer stuffing your fingers in your ears and lalalalaing, K? Either these things happen or they do not. Perhaps it's all fake news? Perhaps it's just too uncomfortable for your point of view.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Yadda on Apr 6^th, 2019 at 9:49pm

Jasin wrote on Apr 6^th, 2019 at 8:58pm:

So YADDA.

How's it feel to be a Christian?

He who 'stole' Religion from the Jews in the Middle-East and took it to Europe and wonder's why Moslems were invented to 'get it back'.

JaSin,

Once an idea or a 'concept' is shared, 'the genie is out of the bottle', and it is 'out there', to be used by others, to be accepted [if they wish] by others.

Angels and demons, like, too. .....looking for 'homes', houses, to co-inhabit.

.

And, oh yeah......

JaSin bot,

IMO, the content of many of your posts are still failing the Turing Test.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_test

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Karnal on Apr 6^th, 2019 at 10:33pm

Setanta wrote on Apr 6^th, 2019 at 8:59pm:

Karnal wrote on Apr 6^th, 2019 at 3:21pm:

moses wrote on Apr 6^th, 2019 at 1:40pm:

karnal wrote:

Quote:

Nigeria's majority Christian. I had no idea they were at war.

So I'm curious. Where does all you terrorism happen?

You've not heard of Boko Haram or Jamā'at Ahl as-Sunnah lid-Da'wah wa'l-Jihād (ISWA) etc., in the present day war against islamic terrorism in Nigeria?

Not much, Moses, no.

You have. You get your news from Jihadwatch, no?

You prefer stuffing your fingers in your ears and lalalalaing, K? Either these things happen or they do not. Perhaps it's all fake news? Perhaps it's just too uncomfortable for your point of view.

I'm positively squeamish, Setanta. Do they have Jamā'at Ahl as-Sunnah lid-Da'wah wa'l-Jihād (ISWA) in your suburb?

The one on my street sounds much less exotic. The Granville Musselah.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Setanta on Apr 6^th, 2019 at 10:53pm

Karnal wrote on Apr 6^th, 2019 at 10:33pm:

Setanta wrote on Apr 6^th, 2019 at 8:59pm:

Karnal wrote on Apr 6^th, 2019 at 3:21pm:

moses wrote on Apr 6^th, 2019 at 1:40pm:

karnal wrote:

Quote:

Nigeria's majority Christian. I had no idea they were at war.

So I'm curious. Where does all you terrorism happen?

You've not heard of Boko Haram or Jamā'at Ahl as-Sunnah lid-Da'wah wa'l-Jihād (ISWA) etc., in the present day war against islamic terrorism in Nigeria?

Not much, Moses, no.

You have. You get your news from Jihadwatch, no?

You prefer stuffing your fingers in your ears and lalalalaing, K? Either these things happen or they do not. Perhaps it's all fake news? Perhaps it's just too uncomfortable for your point of view.

I'm positively squeamish, Setanta. Do they have Jamā'at Ahl as-Sunnah lid-Da'wah wa'l-Jihād (ISWA) in your suburb?

The one on my street sounds much less exotic. The Granville Musselah.

We know you are K. We don't know why though. I think it might have something to do with your dance to defend Islam. After all, if it doesn't happen on your street, it doesn't matter. Hundreds of Africans, Europeans or others don't matter but 50 NZ Muzlims are the entire world of mattering. If they are not the right kind of tinted, even if they are as black as midnight, they don't matter. After all it's the tint of Islam that matters.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Karnal on Apr 6^th, 2019 at 11:50pm

Setanta wrote on Apr 6^th, 2019 at 10:53pm:

Karnal wrote on Apr 6^th, 2019 at 10:33pm:

Setanta wrote on Apr 6^th, 2019 at 8:59pm:

Karnal wrote on Apr 6^th, 2019 at 3:21pm:

moses wrote on Apr 6^th, 2019 at 1:40pm:

karnal wrote:

Quote:

Nigeria's majority Christian. I had no idea they were at war.

So I'm curious. Where does all you terrorism happen?

You've not heard of Boko Haram or Jamā'at Ahl as-Sunnah lid-Da'wah wa'l-Jihād (ISWA) etc., in the present day war against islamic terrorism in Nigeria?

Not much, Moses, no.

You have. You get your news from Jihadwatch, no?

You prefer stuffing your fingers in your ears and lalalalaing, K? Either these things happen or they do not. Perhaps it's all fake news? Perhaps it's just too uncomfortable for your point of view.

I'm positively squeamish, Setanta. Do they have Jamā'at Ahl as-Sunnah lid-Da'wah wa'l-Jihād (ISWA) in your suburb?

The one on my street sounds much less exotic. The Granville Musselah.

Don't matter to who, Setanta?

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Yadda on Apr 7^th, 2019 at 8:37am

ISLAM...

Karnal wrote on Apr 6^th, 2019 at 10:33pm:

Setanta wrote on Apr 6^th, 2019 at 8:59pm:

You prefer stuffing your fingers in your ears and lalalalaing, K?

Either these things happen or they do not.

Perhaps it's all fake news?

Perhaps it's just too uncomfortable for your point of view.

I'm positively squeamish, Setanta.

Do they have Jamā'at Ahl as-Sunnah lid-Da'wah wa'l-Jihād (ISWA) in your suburb?

The one on my street sounds much less exotic. The Granville Musselah.

Boko Haram, is ISLAM.

ISIS, is ISLAM.

The followers of ISLAM in Australia, are ISLAM.

The 'Granville Musselah' ?

If you have a mosque in your Australian suburb, ...THAT IS A PROBLEM.

Why so ?

Because in every mosque, 1/ they worship Allah, and 2/ they teach the tenets and laws and doctrines of ISLAM.

Q.
AT ITS CORE, what does ISLAM teach ???

ISLAM,    AT ITS CORE,    teaches the followers of ISLAM, to hold a never-ending and deep hatred, of all disbelievers.

And choosing to deny that truth,    does not make untrue.

"......the curse of Allah is on those without Faith."
Koran 2.089

"....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98

"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11

Still, don't believe me ?

-------- >

A mosque, is where hatred is preached.
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1554425807/0#0

.

What is ISLAM?

look here.....

------- >

Yadda said....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1536141258/46#46

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1534830555/0#0

and here....

Yadda said....
The trouble, with allowing moslem migration
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1550183828/0#0

.

IMAGE.....

These are a people, WHO DID NOT BUILD OUR NATIONS,
...but it is their intention to destroy everything, within our nations, which is non-ISLAM.

IMAGE.....

These are the people, whom our governments are,
allowing to live among us,    and to walk past us, on our streets.

.

ARGUMENT;
Those people [in the images above] are human sewage, EVERY ONE OF THEM.

Examine the signs and the placards which they are holding.

"[our] Jihad will continue..."

"[our] ISLAM will dominate the world..."

.

Yadda said.....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1409991405/8#8

Quote:

Promoting and encouraging violent and unlawful acts is illegal.

We live in a country in which the people supposedly respect the rule of law.

Without widespread respect for the law of the land, we [our Australian society] would descend into being like Syria, Iraq, Egypt, Libya, Somalia, etc, etc - which is exactly what moslems are trying to achieve.

Moslems want to destroy all of the institutions in Australia, which help to maintain a peaceful and functioning society.

SUGGESTION;
If you live in Australia and you don't like what ISLAM promotes then you should contact your federal parliamentary representative - EXPLAIN TO HIM/HER WHY YOU DO NOT LIKE ISLAM AND MOSLEMS - and encourage your federal parliamentary representative to try to get ISLAM lawfully declared a proscribed [banned] group in Australia.

Act within the law.

Otherwise we are no better than moslems.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Yadda on Apr 7^th, 2019 at 11:08am

ARGUMENT;
The doctrines and LAWS of ISLAM teach its followers,
that it is lawful to hate and to murder, any person who rejects ISLAM,
...to murder any person who does not believe, what a moslem believes.

And ISLAM encourages its followers to act upon those beliefs.

ARGUMENT;
Stating the above is not "HATE SPEECH".

IT IS THE TRUTH!

.

"Fighting [against disbelievers] is prescribed for you, and [if] ye dislike it.....Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
Koran 2.216

"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123

"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:...."
Koran 9.111

.

WHAT THE MESSENGER OF ALLAH, MOHAMMED, SAID.....

ISLAMIC LAW TEXT....

"Ibn 'Umar related that the Messenger of Allah, upon whom be peace, said, "I have been ordered to kill the people until they testify that there is no god except Allah, and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer and pay the zakah. If they do that, their blood and wealth are protected from me save by the rights of Islam. Their reckoning will be with Allah." (Related by al-Bukhari and Muslim.) "
fiqhussunnah/fus1_06

ISLAMIC LAW TEXT....

"Ibn 'Abbas reported that the Prophet said: "The bare essence of Islam and the basics of the religion are three [acts], upon which Islam has been established. Whoever leaves one of them becomes an unbeliever and his blood may legally be spilled. [The acts are:] Testifying that there is no God except Allah, the obligatory prayers, and the fast of Ramadan."...."
fiqhussunnah/#3.110

n.b.
"Whoever......becomes an unbeliever.....his blood may legally be spilled."

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Frank on Apr 7^th, 2019 at 9:44pm

Yadda wrote on Apr 7^th, 2019 at 8:37am:

IMAGE.....

These are a people, WHO DID NOT BUILD OUR NATIONS,
...but it is their intention to destroy everything, within our nations, which is non-ISLAM.

IMAGE.....

These are the people, whom our governments are,
allowing to live among us, and to walk past us, on our streets.

They do look evil.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by polite_gandalf on Apr 8^th, 2019 at 10:32am

freediver wrote on Apr 5^th, 2019 at 5:40pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 5^th, 2019 at 7:51am:

freediver wrote on Apr 4^th, 2019 at 8:13pm:

Sorry, I must have left that out.

Indonesia is a shithole of oppression, thanks to Islam. Ahok is a good example.

FD I literally quoted you word for word. Its under the bit called "freediver wrote..." ;)

Here it is again:

"Indonesia is a shithole of oppression, thanks to Islam. Ahok is a good example"

Thats it FD, thats your argument - all of it.

Ahok is not a good example, because you have made no connection whatsoever, no causal link between the case and Indonesian society being a "shithole of oppression". It is the only example you have ever come up with. And no, simply saying "there are others" without any elaboration doesn't count.

I think it comes down to 'it is because it is' and 'you are an apologist turd polisher if you think it isn't'. Anything else I missed? That of course is ignoring all the times you verballed me and hurled ad-homs. They don't count.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Karnal on Apr 8^th, 2019 at 12:36pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 8^th, 2019 at 10:32am:

freediver wrote on Apr 5^th, 2019 at 5:40pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 5^th, 2019 at 7:51am:

freediver wrote on Apr 4^th, 2019 at 8:13pm:

Sorry, I must have left that out.

Indonesia is a shithole of oppression, thanks to Islam. Ahok is a good example.

Intelligence and integrity, innit.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by moses on Apr 8^th, 2019 at 4:06pm

Oppression of the kufir?

While the government tightens the country’s blasphemy laws, most problems for believers come from confrontations with radical Islamic groups. Some Islamic religious leaders instigate Christian persecution and hatred against Christians (and other religious minorities) through their teaching in mosques, but this occurs in the mass media and by politicians as well.

Muslim families regularly forbid their children to play with Christian friends. They are called infidels and are sometimes mocked by Islamic religious teachers and made to sit in the back row of the school classroom.

Indonesia’s Religious Minorities Under Threat
Police, Militant Islamists Implicated in Religious Freedom Abuses

More than half the incidents of religious intolerance – 140 – implicate government entities, including local government administrations and police. The most notorious example of religious intolerance was the complicity of Indonesian officials and police in the violent forced eviction of more than 7,000 members of the Gafatar religious community from their farms on Kalimantan island beginning in January 2016.

Seems to be alive and well in Indonesia.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Yadda on Apr 8^th, 2019 at 4:25pm

moses wrote on Apr 8^th, 2019 at 4:06pm:

It doesn't matter moses.

And that isn't gandalfs fault.

gandalf is one of 'the vast majority of muslims [who] are peaceful and tolerant towards non-muslims.'
....and, gandalf just happens to be living in a non-moslem majority, secular nation.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1418703040/1#1

Quote:

- I believe in a peaceful, tolerant islam

- the vast majority of muslims are peaceful and tolerant towards non-muslims.

But if gandalf was living in Indonesia, and he saw any discrimination, or religious persecution of Christians, he just wouldn't stand for it i tell you !

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by freediver on Apr 8^th, 2019 at 6:34pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 8^th, 2019 at 10:32am:

freediver wrote on Apr 5^th, 2019 at 5:40pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 5^th, 2019 at 7:51am:

freediver wrote on Apr 4^th, 2019 at 8:13pm:

Sorry, I must have left that out.

Indonesia is a shithole of oppression, thanks to Islam. Ahok is a good example.

There were 4 paragraphs of argument in my response. You removed 3 of them and concluded I had no argument. This is typical. You have no response, so you pretend the words do not exist.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Auggie on Apr 8^th, 2019 at 7:40pm

Question:

"How does one physically polish a turd?"

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by John Smith on Apr 8^th, 2019 at 7:46pm

Auggie wrote on Apr 8^th, 2019 at 7:40pm:

Question:

"How does one physically polish a turd?"

maybe FD will finally answer a question!

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Frank on Apr 8^th, 2019 at 7:55pm

Auggie wrote on Apr 8^th, 2019 at 7:40pm:

Question:

"How does one physically polish a turd?"

Bwian and gweggy - a question about you.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by freediver on Apr 8^th, 2019 at 8:44pm

Auggie wrote on Apr 8^th, 2019 at 7:40pm:

Question:

"How does one physically polish a turd?"

It takes practice. Repeat after me: "I prefer to translate it as inner struggle, not war".

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by .JaSin. on Apr 8^th, 2019 at 8:47pm

"I prefer to translate it as inner struggle, not war" :-?

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by freediver on Apr 8^th, 2019 at 8:50pm

It's shinier already.

Now imagine some child in Morocco being forced to eat it.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Auggie on Apr 8^th, 2019 at 10:05pm

freediver wrote on Apr 8^th, 2019 at 8:44pm:

Auggie wrote on Apr 8^th, 2019 at 7:40pm:

Question:

"How does one physically polish a turd?"

It takes practice. Repeat after me: "I prefer to translate it as inner struggle, not war".

Repeat after me: "I prefer to ignore the effect of tribalism on religion."

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Yadda on Apr 8^th, 2019 at 10:17pm

Auggie wrote on Apr 8^th, 2019 at 10:05pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 8^th, 2019 at 8:44pm:

Auggie wrote on Apr 8^th, 2019 at 7:40pm:

Question:

"How does one physically polish a turd?"

It takes practice. Repeat after me: "I prefer to translate it as inner struggle, not war".

Repeat after me: "I prefer to ignore the effect of tribalism on religion."

Repeat after me: "Our never-ending war for Allah's cause, goes on and on, and on, and on, and on...."

"....because the Jihad against the infidel, will go on, and on, until the day of Judgement."

IMAGE.....

"....on and on, and on, and on, and on...."

------- >

This site collates reports, of many, many, acts of violence being committed by moslems, in the name of ISLAM.

THE RELIGION OF PEACE
http://thereligionofpeace.com/

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Auggie on Apr 9^th, 2019 at 6:23pm

Yadda wrote on Apr 8^th, 2019 at 10:17pm:

Auggie wrote on Apr 8^th, 2019 at 10:05pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 8^th, 2019 at 8:44pm:

Auggie wrote on Apr 8^th, 2019 at 7:40pm:

Question:

"How does one physically polish a turd?"

It takes practice. Repeat after me: "I prefer to translate it as inner struggle, not war".

Repeat after me: "I prefer to ignore the effect of tribalism on religion."

So, if Islam had been founded by Caesar Augustus in Rome in 27BC, would it have had the same characteristics of Islam founded by Muhammad?

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Karnal on Apr 9^th, 2019 at 9:44pm

freediver wrote on Apr 8^th, 2019 at 6:34pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 8^th, 2019 at 10:32am:

freediver wrote on Apr 5^th, 2019 at 5:40pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 5^th, 2019 at 7:51am:

freediver wrote on Apr 4^th, 2019 at 8:13pm:

Sorry, I must have left that out.

Indonesia is a shithole of oppression, thanks to Islam. Ahok is a good example.

There were 4 paragraphs of argument in my response. You removed 3 of them and concluded I had no argument. This is typical. You have no response, so you pretend the words do not exist.

No worries. Let's ask.

FD, what exactly is your argument?

We'll wait and see. You can't be fairer than that, no?

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by polite_gandalf on Apr 10^th, 2019 at 9:20am

freediver wrote on Apr 8^th, 2019 at 6:34pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 8^th, 2019 at 10:32am:

freediver wrote on Apr 5^th, 2019 at 5:40pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 5^th, 2019 at 7:51am:

freediver wrote on Apr 4^th, 2019 at 8:13pm:

Sorry, I must have left that out.

Indonesia is a shithole of oppression, thanks to Islam. Ahok is a good example.

There were 4 paragraphs of argument in my response. You removed 3 of them and concluded I had no argument. This is typical. You have no response, so you pretend the words do not exist.

3 paragraphs of hurling vitriol and baseless accusations at me and Islam is not an argument FD.

I was being extremely generous when I acknowledged that one line an "argument".

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Karnal on Apr 10^th, 2019 at 10:27am

Now now, G, hold your horses.

We've asked FD. Let's wait for him to come back and describe exactly what's in those 3 paragraphs you so shamelessly omitted.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Yadda on Apr 10^th, 2019 at 10:27am

Auggie wrote on Apr 9^th, 2019 at 6:23pm:

Yadda wrote on Apr 8^th, 2019 at 10:17pm:

Auggie wrote on Apr 8^th, 2019 at 10:05pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 8^th, 2019 at 8:44pm:

Auggie wrote on Apr 8^th, 2019 at 7:40pm:

Question:

"How does one physically polish a turd?"

It takes practice. Repeat after me: "I prefer to translate it as inner struggle, not war".

Repeat after me: "I prefer to ignore the effect of tribalism on religion."

So, if Islam had been founded by Caesar Augustus in Rome in 27BC, would it have had the same characteristics of Islam founded by Muhammad?

Auggie,

Here is a hint;
ISLAM WAS NOT founded by Caesar Augustus in Rome in 27BC .

ISLAM was founded by an Arabian, in Arabia, whose principle motivation [in founding ISLAM],
was his jealousy of the Jewish people [because the Jewish religion claimed a direct connection to a God, who they claimed had spoken directly to them, and to their kings and prophets].

Vanity, pride, and envy, of others, was the reason, for the creation and 'birthing' of the religion of ISLAM.

.

Auggie,

QUESTION;
What religion which was inspired by a divine God, would tell its followers it is OK to swear oaths [to make covenants with other persons], and to then say;
'But it is OK to change your mind, and to not honour your oath, because you no longer WANTED to do so.' ?

Quote:

"The Prophet said, "If I take an oath and later find something else better than that, then I do what is better and expiate my oath."."

But you know that Auggie.....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1516565029/22#22

.

Auggie,

When did you convert ?

Do you now recognise, that that, it was a bad mistake ?

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by freediver on Apr 10^th, 2019 at 6:14pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 10^th, 2019 at 9:20am:

freediver wrote on Apr 8^th, 2019 at 6:34pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 8^th, 2019 at 10:32am:

freediver wrote on Apr 5^th, 2019 at 5:40pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 5^th, 2019 at 7:51am:

freediver wrote on Apr 4^th, 2019 at 8:13pm:

Sorry, I must have left that out.

Indonesia is a shithole of oppression, thanks to Islam. Ahok is a good example.

There were 4 paragraphs of argument in my response. You removed 3 of them and concluded I had no argument. This is typical. You have no response, so you pretend the words do not exist.

3 paragraphs of hurling vitriol and baseless accusations at me and Islam is not an argument FD.

I was being extremely generous when I acknowledged that one line an "argument".

I was disagreeing with you Gandalf. How can you have a healthy free market of ideas on the interpretation of Islam at the same time as jailing people for blasphemy?

You polish, so that others may eat.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Auggie on Apr 10^th, 2019 at 8:50pm

Yadda wrote on Apr 10^th, 2019 at 10:27am:

ISLAM was founded by an Arabian, in Arabia, whose principle motivation [in founding ISLAM],
was his jealousy of the Jewish people [because the Jewish religion claimed a direct connection to a God, who they claimed had spoken directly to them, and to their kings and prophets].

Vanity, pride, and envy, of others, was the reason, for the creation and 'birthing' of the religion of ISLAM.

Which is exactly my point.

Islam was developed within a specific cultural and geographical context. That's it.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by moses on Apr 11^th, 2019 at 3:28pm

No that's not really it.

muslim terror is now the number one terrorist threat worldwide.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Karnal on Apr 11^th, 2019 at 9:01pm

freediver wrote on Apr 10^th, 2019 at 6:14pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 10^th, 2019 at 9:20am:

freediver wrote on Apr 8^th, 2019 at 6:34pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 8^th, 2019 at 10:32am:

freediver wrote on Apr 5^th, 2019 at 5:40pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 5^th, 2019 at 7:51am:

freediver wrote on Apr 4^th, 2019 at 8:13pm:

Sorry, I must have left that out.

Indonesia is a shithole of oppression, thanks to Islam. Ahok is a good example.

There were 4 paragraphs of argument in my response. You removed 3 of them and concluded I had no argument. This is typical. You have no response, so you pretend the words do not exist.

3 paragraphs of hurling vitriol and baseless accusations at me and Islam is not an argument FD.

I was being extremely generous when I acknowledged that one line an "argument".

There you go, G. I hope this explains FD's views.

You polish, so that others may eat.

You quote him directly next time, please.

Miam miam.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by polite_gandalf on Apr 16^th, 2019 at 2:00pm

freediver wrote on Apr 10^th, 2019 at 6:14pm:

How can you have a healthy free market of ideas on the interpretation of Islam at the same time as jailing people for blasphemy?

Probably the same way as gaoling people for holocaust denial doesn't fundamentally make Australia (or most of the west for that matter) a "shithole of oppression".

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by freediver on Apr 16^th, 2019 at 6:46pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 16^th, 2019 at 2:00pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 10^th, 2019 at 6:14pm:

How can you have a healthy free market of ideas on the interpretation of Islam at the same time as jailing people for blasphemy?

Probably the same way as gaoling people for holocaust denial doesn't fundamentally make Australia (or most of the west for that matter) a "shithole of oppression".

What way is that Gandalf? Or were you just trying to change the subject rather than add anything substantive?

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by polite_gandalf on Apr 18^th, 2019 at 2:45pm

freediver wrote on Apr 16^th, 2019 at 6:46pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 16^th, 2019 at 2:00pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 10^th, 2019 at 6:14pm:

How can you have a healthy free market of ideas on the interpretation of Islam at the same time as jailing people for blasphemy?

Probably the same way as gaoling people for holocaust denial doesn't fundamentally make Australia (or most of the west for that matter) a "shithole of oppression".

What way is that Gandalf? Or were you just trying to change the subject rather than add anything substantive?

This is the problem with basing your entire argument on a single case FD. When your only argument literally comes down to "Indonesia is a shithole of oppression - Ahok is a good (the only) example", then you must also accept the logic "Australia is a shithole of oppression - Frederik Toben is a good example".

Of course you could try actually developing an argument that resembles something coherent and plausible - but we know where that leads to - pages and pages of deflection in the form of ad-hom attacks and gross misrepresentions of other people's arguments. Sadly.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Frank on Apr 18^th, 2019 at 6:33pm

freediver wrote on Apr 16^th, 2019 at 6:46pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 16^th, 2019 at 2:00pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 10^th, 2019 at 6:14pm:

How can you have a healthy free market of ideas on the interpretation of Islam at the same time as jailing people for blasphemy?

Probably the same way as gaoling people for holocaust denial doesn't fundamentally make Australia (or most of the west for that matter) a "shithole of oppression".

What way is that Gandalf? Or were you just trying to change the subject rather than add anything substantive?

When you put a Muslim on the spot about Islam he will start talking about Jews and Israel.

It's a Pavlovian reflex.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by polite_gandalf on Apr 18^th, 2019 at 7:08pm

Frank wrote on Apr 18^th, 2019 at 6:33pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 16^th, 2019 at 6:46pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 16^th, 2019 at 2:00pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 10^th, 2019 at 6:14pm:

How can you have a healthy free market of ideas on the interpretation of Islam at the same time as jailing people for blasphemy?

Probably the same way as gaoling people for holocaust denial doesn't fundamentally make Australia (or most of the west for that matter) a "shithole of oppression".

What way is that Gandalf? Or were you just trying to change the subject rather than add anything substantive?

When you put a Muslim on the spot about Islam he will start talking about Jews and Israel.

It's a Pavlovian reflex.

Actually FD had quite a long whinge over the attack on poor Toben's freedom. Its why I brought it up.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Karnal on Apr 18^th, 2019 at 7:13pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 18^th, 2019 at 7:08pm:

Frank wrote on Apr 18^th, 2019 at 6:33pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 16^th, 2019 at 6:46pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 16^th, 2019 at 2:00pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 10^th, 2019 at 6:14pm:

How can you have a healthy free market of ideas on the interpretation of Islam at the same time as jailing people for blasphemy?

Probably the same way as gaoling people for holocaust denial doesn't fundamentally make Australia (or most of the west for that matter) a "shithole of oppression".

What way is that Gandalf? Or were you just trying to change the subject rather than add anything substantive?

When you put a Muslim on the spot about Islam he will start talking about Jews and Israel.

It's a Pavlovian reflex.

Actually FD had quite a long whinge over the attack on poor Toben's freedom. Its why I brought it up.

Well, that's just nasty. First you attack decent white people for their views, then you offend FD for complaining.

I must say, I'm not surprised.

Muslim == a follower of Islam.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Frank on Apr 18^th, 2019 at 7:41pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 18^th, 2019 at 7:08pm:

Frank wrote on Apr 18^th, 2019 at 6:33pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 16^th, 2019 at 6:46pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 16^th, 2019 at 2:00pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 10^th, 2019 at 6:14pm:

How can you have a healthy free market of ideas on the interpretation of Islam at the same time as jailing people for blasphemy?

Probably the same way as gaoling people for holocaust denial doesn't fundamentally make Australia (or most of the west for that matter) a "shithole of oppression".

What way is that Gandalf? Or were you just trying to change the subject rather than add anything substantive?

When you put a Muslim on the spot about Islam he will start talking about Jews and Israel.

It's a Pavlovian reflex.

Actually FD had quite a long whinge over the attack on poor Toben's freedom. Its why I brought it up.

Yeah, right.

At ever turn you demonstrate, despite yourself and Mohammed, that all Mohammedanism is a response to the 'bugger off' the Jews gave to Mohammed.

Resentment is the very essence of Islam. Mo wanted to be welcomed by the Jews but they told him to bugger off. And you are killing each other and everyone else because neither Mohammed nor the rest of you Mohammedans can ever digest that bit of 'up yours'. You have a revelation from Allah, no less, to justify your psychological inability to deal with the rejection by the Jews.

There would be NO ISLAM if there were no Jews. The Christians readily embrace their debt to the Jewish scriptures but you, semi-literate mutts cannot ever do that because you are the people of RESENTMENT. That's all there is to Islam: Resentment. It eat at you.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by freediver on Apr 19^th, 2019 at 9:20am

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 18^th, 2019 at 2:45pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 16^th, 2019 at 6:46pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 16^th, 2019 at 2:00pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 10^th, 2019 at 6:14pm:

How can you have a healthy free market of ideas on the interpretation of Islam at the same time as jailing people for blasphemy?

Probably the same way as gaoling people for holocaust denial doesn't fundamentally make Australia (or most of the west for that matter) a "shithole of oppression".

What way is that Gandalf? Or were you just trying to change the subject rather than add anything substantive?

Indonesia routinely jails people for blasphemy Gandalf. It is, after all, a shithole of oppression.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Karnal on Apr 19^th, 2019 at 10:01am

freediver wrote on Apr 19^th, 2019 at 9:20am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 18^th, 2019 at 2:45pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 16^th, 2019 at 6:46pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 16^th, 2019 at 2:00pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 10^th, 2019 at 6:14pm:

How can you have a healthy free market of ideas on the interpretation of Islam at the same time as jailing people for blasphemy?

Probably the same way as gaoling people for holocaust denial doesn't fundamentally make Australia (or most of the west for that matter) a "shithole of oppression".

What way is that Gandalf? Or were you just trying to change the subject rather than add anything substantive?

Indonesia routinely jails people for blasphemy Gandalf. It is, after all, a shithole of oppression.

What do they do in your preferred tourist destination, FD?

KILL THEM?

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by freediver on Apr 19^th, 2019 at 10:08am

Karnal wrote on Apr 19^th, 2019 at 10:01am:

freediver wrote on Apr 19^th, 2019 at 9:20am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 18^th, 2019 at 2:45pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 16^th, 2019 at 6:46pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 16^th, 2019 at 2:00pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 10^th, 2019 at 6:14pm:

How can you have a healthy free market of ideas on the interpretation of Islam at the same time as jailing people for blasphemy?

Probably the same way as gaoling people for holocaust denial doesn't fundamentally make Australia (or most of the west for that matter) a "shithole of oppression".

What way is that Gandalf? Or were you just trying to change the subject rather than add anything substantive?

Indonesia routinely jails people for blasphemy Gandalf. It is, after all, a shithole of oppression.

What do they do in your preferred tourist destination, FD?

KILL THEM?

I forgot to add... thanks to Islam.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by polite_gandalf on Apr 19^th, 2019 at 11:06am

freediver wrote on Apr 19^th, 2019 at 9:20am:

Indonesia routinely jails people for blasphemy Gandalf.

No they don't.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by freediver on Apr 19^th, 2019 at 11:23am

How frequently do you think they jail people for blasphemy?

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by polite_gandalf on Apr 19^th, 2019 at 11:55am

actually I looked it up FD when you put that claim out:

Quote:

It was only used in eight cases in its first four decades but convictions spiked to 125 during the decade when President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono was in power, from 2004 to 2014. Another 23 people have been sentenced since President Joko Widodo took office in 2014.

https://www.hrw.org/news/2018/10/25/human-cost-indonesias-blasphemy-law

23 people in 4 years, 125 in the previous decade...

whats that about 5-10 people per year?

In a country of over 260 million, that hardly qualifies as "routine" - does it?

Gaoling of Islamists for incitement and hate speech on the other hand...

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by freediver on Apr 19^th, 2019 at 12:17pm

125 in a decade comes to more than one jailing a month Gandalf. In other words, Indonesia is a shithole of oppression, thanks to Islam. And you lied when you tried to pass it off as a healthy free marketplace of ideas on the interpretation of Islam.

Does this mean you will stop lying about my argument boiling down to a single conviction?

Have any "Islamists" ever been jailed for blasphemy? Or is there an acknowledgement in there that they actually have the correct version of Islam, but must keep quiet about it?

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Frank on Apr 19^th, 2019 at 6:24pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 19^th, 2019 at 11:55am:

actually I looked it up FD when you put that claim out:

Quote:

You Muslims who incite hatred and violence ARE murderous. The people you jail for 'blasphemy' are not.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by polite_gandalf on Apr 24^th, 2019 at 11:21am

freediver wrote on Apr 19^th, 2019 at 12:17pm:

Does this mean you will stop lying about my argument boiling down to a single conviction?

What other convictions have you mentioned FD? Nothing. You have kept up this debate for months now with reference to Ahok, and Ahok alone. Ergo, your "argument boils down to a single conviction". Not sure why you are so touchy about this, its a simple statement of fact. But by all means if you care to base your argument on something else - anything you like, then feel free. Then I would stop pointing out that it boils down to a single conviction. But I'm afraid simply regurgitating the inane throwaway lines "Islam was wot done it" and "of course there are other cases" doesn't really cut it - obviously.

freediver wrote on Apr 19^th, 2019 at 12:17pm:

Have any "Islamists" ever been jailed for blasphemy?

Islamists are gaoled - routinely - over what they say about religion. You previously claimed they can say whatever they like about religion, which is simply laughable. Two Islamists were convicted for hate speech over the Ahok case alone - one for disseminating a doctored video making Ahok's "blasphemy" seem worse than it really was, and another for saying supporters of the "blasphemer" Ahok should be attacked. Whether its called "blasphemy" or "hate speech" is pointless semantics - the point is, Islamists are routinely arrested and gaoled for expressing their version of Islam (which happens to also be incitement and hate speech).

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by polite_gandalf on Apr 24^th, 2019 at 11:23am

Frank wrote on Apr 19^th, 2019 at 6:24pm:

You Muslims who incite hatred and violence ARE murderous

Agree 100%. Which is why Indonesia routinely arrests and gaols them.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by freediver on Apr 24^th, 2019 at 12:11pm

Quote:

You keep misrepresenting my argument by saying it is "only" about one of a variety of aspects of my argument. You have picked a few aspects and claimed they are the entirety, apparently oblivious to the self-contradiction.

Quote:

Islamists are gaoled - routinely - over what they say about religion.

For blasphemy?

Quote:

Whether its called "blasphemy" or "hate speech" is pointless semantics

I explained why it is relevant in the bit you left out of the quote.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by polite_gandalf on Apr 24^th, 2019 at 2:31pm

freediver wrote on Apr 24^th, 2019 at 12:11pm:

You keep misrepresenting my argument by saying it is "only" about one of a variety of aspects of my argument.

The fact that after all this time you still are literally unable to mention anything else, even while you are huffing and puffing blue in the face insisting that you really do have more, just proves it.

What have you mentioned to support your argument that Indonesia is a shithole of oppression FD?

1. Ahok
2. Islam was wot done it
3. hey there are definitely other cases besides Ahok (I just won't mention any)

And in case it needs to be spelled out, 2 and 3 don't count. So it really does "boil down to" Ahok.

freediver wrote on Apr 24^th, 2019 at 12:11pm:

I explained why it is relevant in the bit you left out of the quote.

Your explanation is nonsensical. You said that if they are not gaoled specifically for blasphemy then ipso facto, its an acknowledgement their version is correct. Yet as I already explained, they are gaoled specifically for what they say about Islam - eg people defending blasphemers should be assaulted - obviously consistent with their "version" of Islam.

So if people are literally gaoled for expressing their version of Islam, how is that anything other than a clear acknowledgement that their version is false - whether its under the auspices of blasphemy or something else?

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Captain Caveman on Apr 24^th, 2019 at 3:28pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 13^th, 2019 at 1:56pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 13^th, 2019 at 1:53pm:

Indonesia is a good example of living Islam - by simple virtue of being the largest muslim country in the world.

I find it so funny that thousands of Islamophobic bogans go to Bali every year.

True story: many of them don't even know Bali is in Indonesia - they think it's a separate nation.

Ahhh. No.
Bali is a Hindu nation. It's the Javan' s that are the Islamic ctuns......and the ones behind the bombings.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by freediver on Apr 24^th, 2019 at 6:01pm

Quote:

The fact that after all this time you still are literally unable to mention anything else

I mention it because we are still discussing it. If you keep telling the same lie, I will keep pointing out the same lie.

Quote:

Your explanation is nonsensical. You said that if they are not gaoled specifically for blasphemy then ipso facto, its an acknowledgement their version is correct.

What else is it? The ones who offer a similar interpretation of Islam to you get jailed for blasphemy. The extremists do not.

Quote:

Yet as I already explained, they are gaoled specifically for what they say about Islam

The examples you gave sounded like anything but. In any case, they are still not accused of, charged with, or jailed for blasphemy.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Yadda on Apr 24^th, 2019 at 6:35pm

Q.
Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?

I nominate Saudi Arabia....

....or is it, The ISLAMIC Republic of Iran ???

Choices, choices!

All the time, we gotta make choices.

WWW search.....
Saudi Arabia Carries Out Mass Execution of 37 People in a Single Day

....i'm sure that they deserved it.

The very 'best' part of the Holy Koran......

"In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
Praise be to Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds;
Most Gracious, Most Merciful;"
Koran 1.1-3

Are those the verses that you draw most inspiration from gandalf ?

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by polite_gandalf on Apr 24^th, 2019 at 7:16pm

freediver wrote on Apr 24^th, 2019 at 6:01pm:

I mention it because we are still discussing it. If you keep telling the same lie, I will keep pointing out the same lie.

I meant you are still unable to offer anything further to your argument besides Ahok. You continue to not offer anything - even after all this time and while you are going blue in the face insisting that you are.

Hence your entire argument boils down to Ahok and nothing else.

freediver wrote on Apr 24^th, 2019 at 6:01pm:

The examples you gave sounded like anything but. In any case, they are still not accused of, charged with, or jailed for blasphemy.

You are being completely inane. Blasphemy necessarily involves mocking and/or deliberately showing contempt for religion. Of course the Islamists will not do that, but it doesn't mean they have the correct version of Islam, or that the government agrees with them. The fact that they are routinely gaoled for literally expressing their version of Islam (eg blasphemers and their supporters should be assaulted) - is about the most clear demonstration that their version is not endorsed or even allowed by society.

Saying that your version of a religion is wrong doesn't necessarily have to involve charging you with blasphemy. Nor does charging others with blasphemy necessarily endorse your version.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Frank on Apr 24^th, 2019 at 7:23pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 24^th, 2019 at 11:23am:

Frank wrote on Apr 19^th, 2019 at 6:24pm:

You Muslims who incite hatred and violence ARE murderous

Agree 100%. Which is why Indonesia routinely arrests and gaols them.

What happened to the second half of my question about 'blasphemers and apostates' in Islam?

Once again, honest, open discussion with a Muslim like you is impossible. You will always do the eel-in-snot manouvre: meticulous apportioning of blame to everyone, total slippery arse-covering about the enormous sins and shortcomings of Islam and Muslims.

Being an intolerant, closed-minded and dogmatic mindset, Islamists like you can never look at yourselves self-critically. That is a very alien and dangerous thing for you and so you avoid it on pain of death. Any critical reflection on Islam by Muslims is totally forbidden as apostasy because Islam cannot withstand any critical scrutiny.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by polite_gandalf on Apr 24^th, 2019 at 7:31pm

Frank wrote on Apr 24^th, 2019 at 7:23pm:

What happened to the second half of my question about 'blasphemers and apostates' in Islam?

Once again, honest, open discussion with a Muslim like you is impossible

Aww come on Frank, don't be like that, it was a statement of the bleeding obvious. Of course the people muslims gaol for blasphemy are not murderers. I didn't think it needed to be spelled out.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Frank on Apr 24^th, 2019 at 9:42pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 24^th, 2019 at 7:31pm:

Frank wrote on Apr 24^th, 2019 at 7:23pm:

What happened to the second half of my question about 'blasphemers and apostates' in Islam?

Once again, honest, open discussion with a Muslim like you is impossible

Aww come on Frank, don't be like that, it was a statement of the bleeding obvious. Of course the people muslims gaol for blasphemy are not murderers. I didn't think it needed to be spelled out.

The bleeding obvious needs to said about Islam again and again, otherwise propagandists like you will geet away with slaning and evasion.

It DOES need to be said, again and again, that Islam is an intolerant, murderous, closed-minded ideology, an enemy of everything the West stands for. The time you stop saying it is the time you accept Islam as normal - ie you are on the road to submission.

Your aim.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Yadda on Apr 24^th, 2019 at 10:14pm

Frank wrote on Apr 24^th, 2019 at 9:42pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 24^th, 2019 at 7:31pm:

Frank wrote on Apr 24^th, 2019 at 7:23pm:

What happened to the second half of my question about 'blasphemers and apostates' in Islam?

Once again, honest, open discussion with a Muslim like you is impossible

Aww come on Frank, don't be like that, it was a statement of the bleeding obvious. Of course the people muslims gaol for blasphemy are not murderers. I didn't think it needed to be spelled out.

The bleeding obvious needs to said about Islam again and again, otherwise propagandists like you will get away with slaning and evasion.

It DOES need to be said, again and again, that Islam is an intolerant, murderous, closed-minded ideology, an enemy of everything the West stands for.

The time you stop saying it is the time you accept Islam as normal - ie you are on the road to submission.

Your aim.

They cannot defeat us, with the use of truth, logic, reason.

The evidences against ISLAM are too apparent and widely known [now].

And the truth of those evidences are, really, undeniable.
.....[though moslems and other apologists for ISLAM, will unceasingly, continue to obfuscate, and to lie, and deny, offering those lies and denials, to anyone who will listen to them.]

They could defeat us through tyranny, and through government oppression, and through the oppressive use of government authority.

Police state.

We are only 'safe' while we continue to 'speak out', and while we are still 'permitted' to 'speak out'.

....but there is no guarantee that 'space' [within Western nations] will indefinitely remain.

Liberty.

It is a precious commodity.

But too often unappreciated, by the 'mob'.

Maybe that, is what my God is doing.

Sifting.

Finding the 'jewels'.

Isaiah 48:10
Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction.

Daniel 12:10
Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

Revelation 21:7
He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

.

Malachi 3:13
Your words have been stout against me, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, What have we spoken so much against thee?
14 Ye have said, It is vain to serve God: and what profit is it that we have kept his ordinance, and that we have walked mournfully before the LORD of hosts?
15 And now we call the proud happy; yea, they that work wickedness are set up; yea, they that tempt God are even delivered.
16 Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name.
17 And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.
18 Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by freediver on Apr 25^th, 2019 at 8:25am

Quote:

Again you lie. No doubt you will blame me for not moving on from this. Have you already forgotten me pointing out that they jailed more than one person a month for blasphemy over a ten year period? It's only one page back.

Quote:

You claim they are jailed for "expressing their version of Islam". But you will have to forgive me for not taking your word on it. The fact is, the apologists like you get jailed for blasphemy. The Islamists do not. Not sure why you consider this to be inane. It is a clear statement from the government and the judiciary on the correct interpretation of Islam.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Karnal on Apr 25^th, 2019 at 11:29am

Frank wrote on Apr 24^th, 2019 at 9:42pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 24^th, 2019 at 7:31pm:

Frank wrote on Apr 24^th, 2019 at 7:23pm:

What happened to the second half of my question about 'blasphemers and apostates' in Islam?

Once again, honest, open discussion with a Muslim like you is impossible

Aww come on Frank, don't be like that, it was a statement of the bleeding obvious. Of course the people muslims gaol for blasphemy are not murderers. I didn't think it needed to be spelled out.

Always absolutely never ever.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Karnal on Apr 25^th, 2019 at 11:37am

freediver wrote on Apr 25^th, 2019 at 8:25am:

Quote:

And have you already forgotten that the overwhealming majority of these cases were tit-for-tat political tactics by candidates that included prosecutions for hate speech?

Ahok's accuser's doing nearly the same amount of time as Ahok for hate speech. It would be divine justice if they were in the same jail.

I think you've forgotten, FD. You won't say.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by polite_gandalf on Apr 25^th, 2019 at 2:53pm

freediver wrote on Apr 25^th, 2019 at 8:25am:

That was yesterday FD, I've been asking for an argument for months now. And don't for a moment think that throw-away line magically makes for a coherent argument - it doesn't. There is certainly no justification to equate these rates with "routine" gaoling, as you did, nor is there any reason to assume this has any meaningful affect on free religious discussion throughout wider society. And nor does it change the fact that you were propping up Ahok as the be-all and end-all factor in why Indonesians must self-censor en masse, and making the entire country an oppressive shithole (and therefore no need to mention anything else).

In short, you are all over the shot. But some brownie points for actually making an effort to address the complete absense of a coherent argument - even if you come up way short.

Quote:

You claim they are jailed for "expressing their version of Islam". But you will have to forgive me for not taking your word on it.

You're asking me to forgive you for being really really inanely obtuse. Thats quite a big ask FD. But of course I'll try - forgiveness is after all central to my religion.

When a muslim insists that a supporter of blasphemy should be assaulted, in any other context you wouldn't even blink before agreeing that this is a clear and direct expression of their version of Islam - and then you would milk it for all its worth in your Islam bashing. You would no doubt link it back to something Muhammad said, or a reference to chapter 9 in the Quran.

Now you want us to believe that maybe such an utterance isn't a representation of their religious beliefs. Mmmmkay FD.

freediver wrote on Apr 25^th, 2019 at 8:25am:

Not sure why you consider this to be inane

Tell me FD, can you think of anything more inane than an ardent Islam critic like yourself speculating that when an Islamist calls for blasphemers and their supporters to be assaulted - it may not be an expression of their version of Islam? I'm struggling to be honest.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Yadda on Apr 25^th, 2019 at 3:41pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 25^th, 2019 at 2:53pm:

.....When a muslim insists that a supporter of blasphemy should be assaulted, in any other context you wouldn't even blink before agreeing that this is a clear and direct expression of their version of Islam - and then you would milk it for all its worth in your Islam bashing.

You would no doubt link it back to something Muhammad said, or a reference to chapter 9 in the Quran.

Now you want us to believe that maybe such an utterance isn't a representation of their religious beliefs.

Mmmmkay FD.

freediver wrote on Apr 25^th, 2019 at 8:25am:

Not sure why you consider this to be inane

Tell me FD, can you think of anything more inane than an ardent Islam critic like yourself speculating that when an Islamist calls for blasphemers and their supporters to be assaulted - it may not be an expression of their version of Islam?

I'm struggling to be honest.

gandalf,

What kind of person are you ?

i.e. What kind of 'not-a-moslem' are you ?

We are all still, trying to determine this.

You are not an extremist moslem.

But are you, a 'moslem', at all ? [.....i.e. a moslem, as defined by Allah.]

mothra wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2019 at 7:24pm:

And most Muslims are not Islamic supremacists.

mothra is like gandalf,

She, and he, are not any definable type of a 'moslem'. ....[aka a 'believer'].

gandalf refuses to be defined by Allah, he refuses to be defined by the contents of the inerrant Koran, and he refuses to be defined by the example of Allah's perfect example, of a moslem [being Mohammed].

More here.....

mothra didn't address the inconsistencies in her OzPol declarations exposed here ['I'm not that type of moslem.']....

And gandalf won't address the inconsistencies in his OzPol declarations exposed here ['I'm not that type of moslem.']....

------ >

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1555826903/157#157

.

ISLAMIC SOURCES....

KILL ALL HYPOCRITES AND BLASPHERMERS

[i.e. those who oppose you, and who do not meet Allah's high standard of true belief]

"Why should ye be divided into two parties about the Hypocrites? Allah hath upset them for their (evil) deeds. Would ye guide those whom Allah hath thrown out of the Way? For those whom Allah hath thrown out of the Way, never shalt thou find the Way.
They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks;-"
Koran 4.88, 89

.

It is lawful, to kill those who refuse to attend the mosque, to pray, ....and who therefore do not meet Allah's high standard of true belief.....

ISLAMIC LAW TEXT....

"Ibn 'Umar related that the Messenger of Allah, upon whom be peace, said, "I have been ordered to kill the people until they testify that there is no god except Allah, and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer and pay the zakah. If they do that, their blood and wealth are protected from me save by the rights of Islam. Their reckoning will be with Allah." (Related by al-Bukhari and Muslim.) "
fiqhussunnah/fus1_06

ISLAMIC LAW TEXT....

"Ibn 'Abbas reported that the Prophet said: "The bare essence of Islam and the basics of the religion are three [acts], upon which Islam has been established. Whoever leaves one of them becomes an unbeliever and his blood may legally be spilled. [The acts are:] Testifying that there is no God except Allah, the obligatory prayers, and the fast of Ramadan."...."
fiqhussunnah/#3.110

n.b.
"Whoever......becomes an unbeliever.....his blood may legally be spilled."

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Frank on Apr 25^th, 2019 at 6:45pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 24^th, 2019 at 11:23am:

Frank wrote on Apr 19^th, 2019 at 6:24pm:

You Muslims who incite hatred and violence ARE murderous

Agree 100%. Which is why Indonesia routinely arrests and gaols them.

Not in Sri Lanka, but, what?

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by freediver on Apr 27^th, 2019 at 9:24am

Quote:

That was yesterday FD, I've been asking for an argument for months now.

And I have been telling you for months that Indonesia jails plenty of people for blasphemy.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Yadda on Jul 12^th, 2019 at 10:36am

Yadda wrote on Mar 12^th, 2019 at 11:52pm:

QUESTION #2;
Is there somewhere in the world, an 'exemplar' moslem majority nation, which every moslem in the world is proud of ?
......

Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation, which is a beacon [to the whole world] of peace, and of justice, and of prosperity,
because moslems live there, and because they follow ISLAMIC law !?

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 13^th, 2019 at 1:53pm:

Indonesia is a good example of living Islam...

IMAGE.....

"Baiq Nuril Maknun, a 41-year-old woman from Lombok"

Quote:

Indonesian woman jailed for recording sexual harassment hopes President Jokowi will free her

By Max Walden
Thu 11 Jul 2019

An Indonesian woman prosecuted for secretly recording her boss sexually harassing her has asked President Joko "Jokowi" Widodo to grant amnesty, after the country's Supreme Court last week upheld a guilty verdict.
[the 'justice' of ISLAMIC law ? - Yadda]

In 2012 Baiq Nuril Maknun, a 41-year-old woman from Lombok, recorded lewd phone calls with Haji Muslim, the principal of the Mataram high school where she worked as an accountant.

While arguing that she recorded conversations to gather evidence and protect herself from sexual harassment, Nuril was charged under Indonesia's controversial Electronic Information and Transactions (ITE) law for circulating indecent content and defamation.

In a video provided to the ABC, a teary Nuril pleaded with Mr Widodo to grant her amnesty.

"I only hope now for amnesty from you," she said.

https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2019-07-11/indonesia-nuril-sexual-harassment-victim-presidential-amnesty/11300770?pfmredir=sm

What a shameful, unjust incident.

A innocent woman, sexually harassed by a [politically] influential and 'stronger' moslem man,
GOES TO PRISON, [in effect] FOR COMPLAINING ABOUT HER HARASSMENT !

IMAGE.....

Lets hope President Widodo bows to public pressure, and takes pity upon Baiq Nuril Maknun.

nod to Gordon for link to item
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1562886486/0#0

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Yadda on Jul 12^th, 2019 at 10:42am

And never forget !! .....LEST WE FORGET.

"ISLAM is the most feminist religion" - Yassmin Abdel-Magied

IMAGE....

Yassmin Abdel-Magied

"ISLAM is the most feminist religion" - Yassmin Abdel-Magied

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Frank on Jul 12^th, 2019 at 7:24pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 13^th, 2019 at 1:53pm:

Indonesia is a good example of living Islam - by simple virtue of being the largest muslim country in the world.

Why haven't you moved to Indonesia or Malaysia yet? Very nice Islamic countries, we keep hearing. Yet here you are in redneck infidel country. There are dozens of Islamic countries - why live under the oppressive kuffar non-believers' rulee?

If I was an eager and practicing Christian, Jew, Buddhist, Hindu, Sikh I wouldn't want to live in a Muslim country. Why are you choosing infidels country over any of the countries in the House of Islam?

Opportunism, I think. And bad faith, of course.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Yadda on Jul 12^th, 2019 at 9:18pm

Frank wrote on Jul 12^th, 2019 at 7:24pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 13^th, 2019 at 1:53pm:

Indonesia is a good example of living Islam - by simple virtue of being the largest muslim country in the world.

Why haven't you moved to Indonesia or Malaysia yet?.....

Why are you choosing infidels country over any of the countries in the House of Islam?

Frank,

Many moslems despise living in moslem majority nations.

And we can see, with our own eyes, that moslems are continually fleeing moslem majority nations.

And every moslem knows, that moslem majority societies are nests of oppression, depravity, political corruption, violence, injustice, and human poverty.

And yet, stupid moslems, still bring the 'seed' of this corrupt and evil culture with them, insisting that their version of ISLAM is righteous and peaceful.

But whenever you ask a follower of ISLAM to point to a moslem majority society in the world where 'their' righteous and peaceful version of ISLAM prevails,
the moslem is only able to utter words of prevarication, and two faced, 'snaky' words of deceit.

prevaricate = = speak or act evasively.

Deceit, and non-accountability, .....they ooze from the pores, of the followers of ISLAM.

Whenever there is some wrongdoing that is associated with a moslem, ...by Allah!, somewhere there is a non-moslem who is always responsible for the cause of that wrongdoing !

Those disbelievers are such corrupt creatures !

And no matter how virtuous the moslem is, the disbelievers are always causing strife for Allah's people!

Honest!

.

EXAMPLE, MOSLEM DECEIT;

IMAGE...

Sheikh Yassir al-Burhami

Quote:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article2409833.ece

.

EXAMPLE, MOSLEM DECEIT;

Quote:

A Study in Muslim Doctrine

"...while sincere friendship with non-Muslims is forbidden,

insincere friendship - whenever beneficial to Muslims - is not."

http://www.meforum.org/2512/nidal-hasan-fort-hood-muslim-doctrine

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Abu on Jul 13^th, 2019 at 2:06pm

Frank wrote on Jul 12^th, 2019 at 7:24pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 13^th, 2019 at 1:53pm:

Indonesia is a good example of living Islam - by simple virtue of being the largest muslim country in the world.

Exactly. G has bad faith for not moving to Indonesia, then being locked up and sent BACK TO WHERE HE CAME FROM for being an illegal.

But I say, old boy, as a devout Lutheran, have you ever thought of moving to Krautland? When they deport you, you might find yourself stopping off in Indonesia when they pick up G.

Food for thought, eh?

Miam miam.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Abu on Jul 13^th, 2019 at 2:12pm

freediver wrote on Apr 27^th, 2019 at 9:24am:

Quote:

That was yesterday FD, I've been asking for an argument for months now.

And I have been telling you for months that Indonesia jails plenty of people for blasphemy.

How many?

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Frank on Jul 13^th, 2019 at 2:26pm

Karnal wrote on Jul 13^th, 2019 at 2:12pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 27^th, 2019 at 9:24am:

Quote:

That was yesterday FD, I've been asking for an argument for months now.

And I have been telling you for months that Indonesia jails plenty of people for blasphemy.

How many?

How many is ok to jail for blasphemy?

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Abu on Jul 13^th, 2019 at 3:47pm

Frank wrote on Jul 13^th, 2019 at 2:26pm:

Karnal wrote on Jul 13^th, 2019 at 2:12pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 27^th, 2019 at 9:24am:

Quote:

That was yesterday FD, I've been asking for an argument for months now.

And I have been telling you for months that Indonesia jails plenty of people for blasphemy.

How many?

How many is ok to jail for blasphemy?

That's a question.

FD?

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Yadda on Jul 13^th, 2019 at 5:13pm

Karnal wrote on Jul 13^th, 2019 at 2:12pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 27^th, 2019 at 9:24am:

Quote:

That was yesterday FD, I've been asking for an argument for months now.

And I have been telling you for months that Indonesia jails plenty of people for blasphemy.

How many?

Many more than Australia. :)

6, at least!

"We infidels, want noise abatement!!!!"

"Off to prison with you!! You wicked person!"

1,920px × 1,080px
IMAGE.....

"Meliana, a 44-year-old ethnic Chinese Buddhist, was sentenced to 18 months in prison for complaining about the volume of a neighbourhood mosque."

The human cost of Indonesia’s Blasphemy Law
October 25, 2018
https://indonesiaatmelbourne.unimelb.edu.au/the-human-cost-of-indonesias-blasphemy-law/

for more offending, of the sensibilities of the followers of ISLAM ------ >

https://www.jihadwatch.org/category/blasphemy

and.....
https://www.jihadwatch.org/category/Indonesia

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Yadda on Jul 13^th, 2019 at 5:22pm

Those damned blasphemers are everywhere, i tells ya!!!!

Talking Indonesia: blasphemy
Why is blasphemy such a serious offence in Indonesia? What do recent blasphemy cases have…
https://indonesiaatmelbourne.unimelb.edu.au/talking-indonesia-blasphemy/

Why is Ahok in prison? A legal analysis of the decision
On 9 May, judges sentenced Basuki 'Ahok' Tjahaja Purnama to two years in prison for…
https://indonesiaatmelbourne.unimelb.edu.au/why-is-ahok-in-prison-a-legal-analysis-of-the-decision/

How did a complaint about a mosque loudspeaker end up in a blasphemy conviction?
The conviction of Meiliana, after she complained about the noise of a nearby mosque, has…
https://indonesiaatmelbourne.unimelb.edu.au/how-did-a-complaint-about-a-mosque-loudspeaker-end-up-in-a-blasphemy-conviction/

https://indonesiaatmelbourne.unimelb.edu.au/

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by moses on Jul 26^th, 2019 at 7:05pm

Police Responsible for the Abduction of Malaysian Pastor 04/03/2018

Whereabouts of Pastor Abducted in February 2017 Remain Unknown

the Human Rights Commission of Malaysia (Suhakam) announced that the special police intelligence team was involved in the abduction of Pastor Raymond Koh. Koh was kidnapped by a group of men in Petaling Jaya, while on his way to visit a friend, on February 13, 2017.

“The direct and circumstantial evidence in Pastor Raymond Koh’s case proves, on a balance of probabilities, that he was abducted by State agents, namely the Special Branch [from] Bukit Aman, Kuala Lumpur,” Suhakam’s report reads.

proves that the state was responsible for his disappearance.

Well spit three times, cut out her clit and call me allah.

Don't the *moderates* and loony leftards hold up Malaysia as one of the beacons of enlightenment in the islamic world?

It seems the islamic thought police are as active as ever in the enlightened muzzie Malaysian uptopia.

islam can never stand any honest criticism or questioning, that's why they have to enforce belief in it with the death penalty.

why do you think the loony left is desperately trying to make it illegal to mock question and despise islamic doctrine?

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Yadda on Jul 27^th, 2019 at 10:04am

moses wrote on Jul 26^th, 2019 at 7:05pm:

Police Responsible for the Abduction of Malaysian Pastor 04/03/2018

Whereabouts of Pastor Abducted in February 2017 Remain Unknown

.....Don't the *moderates* and loony leftards hold up Malaysia as one of the beacons of enlightenment in the islamic world?

It seems the islamic thought police are as active as ever in the enlightened muzzie Malaysian uptopia.

islam can never stand any honest criticism or questioning, that's why they have to enforce belief in it with the death penalty.

why do you think the loony left is desperately trying to make it illegal to mock question and despise islamic doctrine?

The war of the followers of ISLAM [the war, against the 'house of war'], is a war of attrition.
[...and it is a war in which the moslem is prepared to fight over decades or even centuries.]

And the moslem has developed a winning strategy for dealing with strong, [but] tolerant enemies, e.g. with 'liberal' Westerners [and especially their governments].

That strategy is always....

CHEAT-RETREAT-ADVANCE

[i.e. RETREAT, when 'found out']

In that 'procession' [towards victory over an enemy], if a cheat is not discovered [or recognised], then an advantage is always gained.

But if the cheat was discovered, then a temporary 'embarrassment' may be experienced,
OR,
the moslem can [insist his own innocence is intact, and] blame 'some extremist element', for bringing TRUE ISLAM into public disrepute.

" The Prophet said, "War is deceit." "
hadith/bukhari/ #004.052.269

Moslems lying to, and deceiving 'disbelievers', could be regarded as the 'soft' component of the moslem Jihad [religious fighting against 'disbelievers'].

WWW search....
house of war, Dar al-Harb

WWW search....
divisions of the world, in islam, Dar al-Harb

procession = = a number of people or vehicles moving forward in an orderly fashion, especially as part of a ceremony. the action of moving in such a way.

disrepute, discredit = = harm the good reputation of. cause (an idea or piece of evidence) to seem false or unreliable.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by moses on Jul 27^th, 2019 at 6:23pm

Monday, May 7, 2018

Pastor charged for blasphemy in Indonesia

Tangerang District Court in Indonesia sentenced Reverend Abraham Ben Moses to four years in prison and issued him a 50 million Rupiah fine (~3,500 USD) for religious defamation.

Abraham was arrested on December 5, 2017, after a video went viral that depicted him sharing his faith with a Muslim taxi driver. In the video, he speaks with the taxi driver about converting to Christianity and the Prophet Muhammad’s flawed teachings on marriage.

“Abraham was convicted under Electronic and Information Transactions Law No. 11/2008 as he intentionally spread information intended to incite hatred against an individual, group and society based on religion.”

Just how mentality retarded are the Indonesians exactly?

so they charge him with inciting hatred against a religious group for telling the truth about the satanical depraved teachings in the qur'an.

If these self righteousness retards were fair dinkum, they would question the core teachings of the qur'an which unreservedly preach that allah hates disbelief, could kill those he hates but prefers muslims do it as a test.

How depraved are the lunatic leftards who fight tooth and nail to have satanical islam accepted and welcomed into our democratic lands of freedom?

When will truth be the guiding factor for our society?

Until the muzzies own the howling putrid evilness of the qur'an and the subsequent human rights atrocities being committed globally by muslims as they obey this degeneracy to the letter, the world will never rise above the present abominable state of affairs in the muslim world spiritually or physically.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Sprintcyclist on Jul 27^th, 2019 at 6:41pm

Any country that has a charge of blasphemy, I will never visit.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Abu on Jul 28^th, 2019 at 11:45am

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 27^th, 2019 at 6:41pm:

Any country that has a charge of blasphemy, I will never visit.

You only visit New Zealand, Sprint, so that's easy.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Frank on Aug 10^th, 2019 at 5:01pm

So, well, then - did we get an answer to the question in the thread title?

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by moses on Aug 11^th, 2019 at 2:33pm

There just ain't one that anybody can point to.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Frank on Feb 17^th, 2022 at 9:43am

News from cute and cuddly Malaysia:

A Malaysian minister who offered “tips” to husbands, including to beat their wives “gently” to discipline them for “unruly” behaviour, has outraged women’s rights groups.

Siti Zailah Mohd Yusoff, the Deputy Minister for Women and Family, was accused of normalising domestic violence with a two-minute video posted on Instagram called Mother’s Tips. She advises that husbands first to speak to “undisciplined and stubborn wives” and, if they are not compliant, to sleep apart from them.

She adds: “However, if the wife still refuses to take the advice, or change her behaviour after the sleeping separation, then the husbands can try the physical touch approach, by striking her gently, to show his strictness and how much he wants her to change.”

She also counsels wives on how to win over their husbands. “Speak to your husbands when they are calm, finished eating, have prayed and are relaxed,” she suggests. “When we want to speak, ask for permission first.”

A group of women’s rights organisations, the Joint Action Group for Gender Equality, demanded her resignation. “The deputy minister must step down for normalising domestic violence and perpetuating ideas as well as behaviours that are opposed to gender equality,” it said.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Belgarion on Feb 17^th, 2022 at 10:36am

I wait for the outrage from the forum sisterhood...

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Lisa Jones on Feb 17^th, 2022 at 10:43am

Belgarion wrote on Feb 17^th, 2022 at 10:36am:

I wait for the outrage from the forum sisterhood...

What forum sisterhood?

How many women post on OzPol?

Besides I don't need to wait around for a sisterhood or a tribe of women. Stuff that! I'm quite capable of standing up for myself. And I'm more than happy to tell you all what I think of this Muslim woman.

She's been installed, like a toilet by Muslim men into a particular position so she can produce sh!t which has no place anywhere in today's world.

I think that just about covers it. For now.

Note : I'm more than happy to return and provide a more comprehensive response if required.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Brian Ross on Feb 17^th, 2022 at 11:15am

Job ad to recruit 30 female train drivers in Saudi Arabia attracts 28,000 applicants

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Lisa Jones on Feb 17^th, 2022 at 11:18am

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 17^th, 2022 at 11:15am:

Job ad to recruit 30 female train drivers in Saudi Arabia attracts 28,000 applicants

You're posting in the wrong topic.

Try: SPINELESS APOLOGISTS. You'll blend in well there.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Brian Ross on Feb 17^th, 2022 at 11:56am

Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 17^th, 2022 at 11:18am:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 17^th, 2022 at 11:15am:

Job ad to recruit 30 female train drivers in Saudi Arabia attracts 28,000 applicants

You're posting in the wrong topic.

Try: SPINELESS APOLOGISTS. You'll blend in well there.

Boring. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Frank on Feb 17^th, 2022 at 1:54pm

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 17^th, 2022 at 11:15am:

Job ad to recruit 30 female train drivers in Saudi Arabia attracts 28,000 applicants

30 female train drivers AND 30 of their male chaperones.

Title: Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Post by Frank on Jul 3^rd, 2022 at 2:06pm

There are no jokes in Islam...
Not to mention the enormous boost for community relations with the Musulmans.

Paedophile Rochdale grooming gang member, 51, who got a 13-year-old girl pregnant argues he shouldn't be deported to Pakistan because his son needs a role model
Adil Khan and Qari Abdul Rauf have been told they will be deported to Pakistan
Since release from jail in 2016 they have fought a legal battle to remain in the UK
Father-of-five Khan says he must be a 'father figure' to teach 'right from wrong'

Since release from jail on licence in 2016, they have fought a long legal battle against deportation - mounting multiple legal challenges and appeals - spanning several years on the grounds that deportation would interfere with their human rights.

But now both Khan and Rauf will finally hear if they can remain in the UK after a date for their deportation case was set for later this year.

Khan appeared at a final deportation hearing on Wednesday to argue he should not be deported, where Judge Charlotte Welsh asked him how his son might be affected if he was deported from the UK.

Khan, speaking through a Miripuri interpreter, replied: 'As you know, the father figure is very important in every culture in the world, to be a role model for the child, to tell him or her right from wrong.'

Meanwhile, the mastermind is off the deportation hook:

Revealed: Ringleader of Rochdale grooming gang WON'T be deported to Pakistan because of loophole that let him RENOUNCE citizenship of his native country just five days before key hearing
A ringleader of the notorious Rochdale grooming gang known as 'The Master' by his fellow abusers has won his battle against deportation to his native Pakistan
The taxi driver, 51, was convicted of trafficking and conspiracy to engage in sexual activity with a child and jailed for nine years in 2012
Whistleblower Maggie Oliver, who resigned as a detective over failings in how police handled grooming cases in Rochdale, said victims would be horrified

Hanging's too good for 'em.