.
Advice to God's people within the Old and New Testament scripture,
.....THE TREATMENT OF STRANGERS.


Exodus 22:21
Thou shalt neither vex a stranger, nor oppress him: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.


Exodus 23:9
Also thou shalt not oppress a stranger: for ye know the heart of a stranger, seeing ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.


Leviticus 19:33
And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him.
34  But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.


Deuteronomy 10:17
For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward:
18  He doth execute the judgment of the fatherless and widow, and loveth the stranger, in giving him food and raiment.
19  Love ye therefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.


Matthew 22:36
Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37  Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38  This is the first and great commandment.
39  And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.


Psalms 34:14
Depart from evil, and do good; seek peace, and pursue it.


++++++++++++


Advice to Allah's people, from the Koran....

"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/047.qmt.html#047.008
v. 8-11


"......the curse of Allah is on those without Faith."
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/002.qmt.html#002.089


"Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah:"
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/003.qmt.html#003.028


"O ye who believe! Take not for friends unbelievers rather than believers: Do ye wish to offer Allah an open proof against yourselves?"
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/004.qmt.html#004.144


"O ye who believe! fight the unbelievers who gird you about, and let them find firmness in you: and know that Allah is with those who fear Him."
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/009.qmt.html#009.123


"Do the Unbelievers think that they can take My servants as protectors besides Me? Verily We have prepared Hell for the Unbelievers for (their) entertainment."
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/018.qmt.html#018.102


"Muhammad is the messenger of Allah; and those who are with him are strong against Unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other......"
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/048.qmt.html#048.029


"O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell,- an evil refuge indeed."
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/009.qmt.html#009.073
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/066.qmt.html#066.009


"Unbelievers are unto you open enemies."
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/004.qmt.html#004.101


"Fighting [against unbelievers] is prescribed for you, and [if] ye dislike it.....Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/002.qmt.html#002.216



+++++++++


Examples of Allah's finest, "striving hard against the unbelievers."



Saudis Call for Interfaith Dialogue Hypocritical
August 18 2008
"......This is laughable and ludicrous. What and whose extremism and tolerance is Abdullah talking about? It is his country that is fostering extremism and intolerance. Till this day, Saudi schoolbooks, the local media, and mosques daily preach hatred and violence against other faiths. For example, Lorenzo, a Philippine worker who was carrying a cross around his neck was jailed and tortured for six years, then, a month ago, he was deported."
http://europenews.dk/en/node/13194

Yes, the 'crime' was having a crucifix, inside Saudi Arabia.

These muslims, are soooo tolerant of the ppl of other faiths.
/sarc off


Google,
Saudi Arabia maid abuse
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=Saudi+Arabia+maid+abuse&btnG=Search&meta=



MAID ABUSE

.....within Sharia jurisdictions, it is ALWAYS the most vulnerable [women, children, and non-muslims], who suffer the worst injustices.

http://www.natashatynes.org/newswire/images/nour_miyati.jpg
http://www.natashatynes.org/newswire/2005/03/indonesian_maid.html



http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44681000/jpg/_44681090_bd5aa2fd-17e7-4faf-8c26-0a9e10c7d0c8.jpg
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7415290.stm



http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/39478000/jpg/_39478261_kusm.jpg
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/3204297.stm


Maid abuse in the UAE
October 13, 2004
http://chanadbahraini.blogspot.com/2004/10/maid-abuse-in-uae.html


Dubai: Migrant Workers at Risk
......many migrant workers suffer from discrimination, exploitation and abuse. Migrants, including large numbers of women employed as domestic servants, face intimidation and violence, including sexual assault, at the hands of employers, supervisors, sponsors and police and security forces. Children are especially vulnerable to labor and sexual exploitation and denial of basic rights.
http://hrw.org/english/docs/2003/09/19/uae6388.htm

Quote:

Advice to God's people within the Old and New Testament scripture, .....THE TREATMENT OF STRANGERS.

Anyone who's actually known and spent time with Arabs/Muslims, would tell you that one thing you can't fault them on is their hospitality...

Nevermind, carry on..

abu_rashid wrote on Nov 12^th, 2008 at 9:29am:

Quote: Advice to God's people within the Old and New Testament scripture, .....THE TREATMENT OF STRANGERS. Anyone who's actually known and spent time with Arabs/Muslims, would tell you that one thing you can't fault them on is their hospitality... Nevermind, carry on..

abu,

I have heard that myself, that many muslims are very hospitable.

[In fact i have myself experienced the kind hospitality of muslims.]

And i would concede that point to you.



BUT,

There are obvious examples where such muslim hospitality and geniality, is not universally extended to, strangers, and the infidel.

In fact, there is evidence of a tremendous amount of abuse [from those claiming to be muslims], directed towards those who are 'outsiders'.


+++++++++


ANOTHER EXAMPLE.....
.....OF OVERT RACISM, WITHIN SAUDI SOCIETY.....


April 21, 2007
How a British jihadi saw the light
Ed Hussain, once a proponent of radical Islam in London, tells how his time as a teacher in Saudi Arabia led him to turn against extremism
.......A non-Saudi black student I had met at the British Council accompanied me. “Last week a woman gave birth here,” he said, pointing to a ramshackle cardboard shanty. Disturbed, I now realised that the materials I had seen those women carrying were not always for sale but for shelter.
I had never expected to see such naked poverty in Saudi Arabia.
At that moment it dawned on me that Britain, my home, had given refuge to thousands of black Africans from Somalia and Sudan: I had seen them in their droves in Whitechapel. They prayed, had their own mosques, were free and were given government housing.
Many Muslims enjoyed a better lifestyle in non-Muslim Britain than they did in Muslim Saudi Arabia. At that moment I longed to be home again.
All my talk of ummah seemed so juvenile now. It was only in the comfort of Britain that Islamists could come out with such radical utopian slogans as one government, one ever expanding country, for one Muslim nation. The racist reality of the Arab psyche would never accept black and white people as equal.
.......Racism was an integral part of Saudi society. My students often used the word “black person” to describe black people. Even dark-skinned Arabs were considered inferior to their lighter-skinned cousins. I was living in the world’s most avowedly Muslim country, yet I found it anything but. I was appalled by the imposition of Wahhabism in the public realm, something I had implicitly sought as an Islamist.
http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/books/book_extracts/article1685726.ece#

Quote:

BUT

always gotta be one of these doesn't there? :)

I might shock you, but I agree Saudi (and most other Gulf) society can be racist. Especially towards people of sub-Contnent background, and that is disgusting, but has nothing to do with Islam.

abu_rashid wrote on Nov 12^th, 2008 at 11:24am:

Quote: BUT always gotta be one of these doesn't there? :)

Quote:

I might shock you, but I agree Saudi (and most other Gulf) society can be racist. Especially towards people of sub-Contnent background, and that is disgusting, but

Thank you abu.





Quote:

"........but [this] has nothing to do with Islam."

Well, you may wish to keep believing that abu, that the nature of ISLAM, is not reflected in the lives of its adherents.


But i pray, that the spirit of God will reveal something else to you abu, and to all muslims.

I know that many muslims are good ppl [but i don't believe this is so, because of the influence of ISLAM upon them].



+++++++


Luke 6:43
For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
44  For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes.
45  A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.
46  And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

Abu - I feel this may be another time we agree on something.

All people are Gods people.

abu_rashid wrote on Nov 12^th, 2008 at 9:29am:

Quote: Advice to God's people within the Old and New Testament scripture, .....THE TREATMENT OF STRANGERS. Anyone who's actually known and spent time with Arabs/Muslims, would tell you that one thing you can't fault them on is their hospitality... Nevermind, carry on..

Like those maids?

Doesn't Islam command Muslims to force Dhimmis into a state of permanent humiliation?

Quote:

Well, you may wish to keep believing that abu, that the nature of ISLAM, is not reflected in the lives of its adherents.

If the actions of the general society determine what Islam is to be judged by rather than it's teachings, then can I take the liberty of applying the same yardstick to Christianity? Even just looking at some of the threads on this forum, one could deduce that Christianity is responsible forr incest, prostate cance in gay men who are on the 'receiving end', gay parents, cheering and jubilation at the news students had been killed in an air bombing.... and the list goes on. So actually I think if we use your yardstick, Islam would probably still come out on top.

Up to you though... Want to be judged by the same rules? Isn't there a Christian saying something like this... "Judge not, lest you be judged"?


Quote:

But i pray, that the spirit of God will reveal something else to you abu, and to all muslims.

If you mean reveal to us that we should believe in trinitarian polytheism, then don't hold out too much hope for us.

Cos I guarantee you this, until you do away with that deviant and pagan aspect of your religion, no Muslim, who knows even 1/100th. of his religion would ever even look sideways at Christianity.

Come on freediver. It's hardly fair to judge a religion based on the crimes of a few members of a society where that religion is dominant. Should we blame Christianity for instance for Martin Bryants rampage through Port Arthur? Or how about those 'parents' who starved their child to death on the NSW north coast recently, or the many cases of people keeping their own kids in cages like animals, or that monster recently in Austria who kept his own daughter under his house and had several kids with her.... or any of the other truly despicable crimes against humanity that we see almost daily come out of Western Christian societies?

Sorry Abu, my mistake. Please take this opportunity to educate me on the level of hospitality that Muslims are expected to show 'non-Dhimmi' unbelievers. I started a thread about it on Islam for you.

So you don't see anything abhorant in non-Western non-Christian societies?

Particularly Muslim ones?

Grendel, did you happen to actually read my second post in this thread, post #3?

Did it say anything sensible for a change?

Or was it just a rail against the Saudis as usual.

You fickle little man.


Quote:

Or was it just a rail against the Saudis as usual.

Is not a very consistent response to:


Quote:

So you don't see anything abhorant in non-Western non-Christian societies? Particularly Muslim ones?

Try to be at least a little bit consistent, if you want to maintain some semblance of credibility.

Sorry Abu. How impolite of me. I forgot to add the link to that thread I mentioned about the treatment of atheists, Hindus etc:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1226292000

Not fickle..
Not little...

3 strikes and you'll be out mod: do not change user names...

Care to list the Muslim states apart from Saudi you think are bad?

Gonna be a short list isn't it.   ;D

Actually it'll be the longest list possible.

All of them, without exception are bad. In fact one of the main gripes Muslims have against the West is their support of 'Muslim states'. This was recognised by the US government since the time of the Eisenhower Administration.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Nov 12^th, 2008 at 12:31pm:

Abu - I feel this may be another time we agree on something. All people are Gods people.

Sprint,

Not if we choose to give [our] power to the spirit of this world.




We are all [spirits from God] gone astray in this world.

The worldly things [which we have 'in our face', every day] are our bondage.

We are in bondage, in this earth.

The spirit of God, and the spirit of truth, is freedom.



John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16  And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17  Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

John 15:26
But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
27  And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

Philippians 3:18
(For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:
19  Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)

Romans 8:13
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14  For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15  For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16  The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:


......"WE, WHEN WE WERE CHILDREN, WERE IN BONDAGE UNDER THE ELEMENTS OF THE WORLD."

Galatians 4:1-7
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?t=KJV&x=0&y=0&b=Gal&c=4&v=1

yadda - whether people are more spiritual or not is beside the point.

Whether they decide to lead a spiritual life or not is beside the point.
Let alone, that they may follw the same spiritual path as you.

Well come on mod: do not change user names... I'm still waiting...

No amount of saying one thing and failing to back it up with facts is gonna save your hide on this one.

Are you for real Grendel?

Don't you have the least bit of shame when you post? The fear that maybe you'll look like a complete goose? Or did you just miss my post?  ;D

Quote:

"Care to list the Muslim states apart from Saudi you think are bad?"

abu_rashid wrote on Nov 13^th, 2008 at 6:31am:

Actually it'll be the longest list possible. All of them, without exception are bad. In fact one of the main gripes Muslims have against the West is their support of 'Muslim states'. This was recognised by the US government since the time of the Eisenhower Administration.

abu,

It is no use ppl in Arab countries [or ppl such as yourself!] blaming infidel governments, for the things which they, themselves arabs, tolerate.

If there are any real, real, real, muslims, in those countries, they can't blame their fate upon others.

If muslims, in muslim countries really, really, wanted Sharia, no force could resist them, no force could resist their combined will.

The overwhelming muslim desire for Sharia would prevail.



If they were indeed real muslims, they would have already set up Sharia jurisdictions.

Abu,
In fact, an outsider would have to say, that, that is is exactly what arabs have got.

Exactly what they desire.

But muslims being muslims, they can see it is not ideal, the Sharia systems which many of them claim to have already achieved.

But the many societal faults, is not with their system, not with Sharia.

Oh no!

The fault lies with those infidels, across the seas, and on the other side of the planet!!!

Its a conspiracy, of the infidels, against muslims!!!
[ROFLOL]



Well abu, if muslims want a perfect religion, Sharia, they could fight for "Allah's way", for a Sharia jurisdiction, and be laying down their lives to achieve Allah's perfect state.

Oh!

Is that is what is happening, with all of the car bombings, in muslim nations????

The holy fighters for Allah, are doing their best are they???

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44185000/jpg/_44185261_karachithree203.jpg

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44326000/jpg/_44326171_afp203indexfire.jpg
Benazir Bhutto killed in attack
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7161590.stm

As instructed, in the Koran & Hadith.

After all, real muslims obey Allah, and have no fear of fighting for Allah, surely???

Aren't muslims, all holy warriors for Allah?





So, in making your argument you can't have it both ways.

......"Allah is great, and all powerful, and just."

"But the infidels [across the seas, and on the other side of the planet!!!] just won't let us muslims set up real Sharia jurisdictions.
And their oppression of us, is the reason why there is so much injustice and violence among us muslims.
Because we muslims are not prepared to sacrifice anything, to get justice and truth.
It is so much easier, just to blame the infidels for everything wrong in our society, rather than be REAL MUSLIMS, living in a REAL SHARIA JURISDICTION."

"We are muslims who want Sharia - but the infidels won't let us have it."

"We are muslims who want Sharia - but we don't want to die trying, fighting, for it."

/sarc off



This is just more muslim deflection, of SELF-responsibility.

i.e. 'We muslims are not responsible for anything bad happening! If something bad happens. It was caused by an infidel.'

Just more of the ISLAMIC mindbend.....

ISLAM, muslims, good.
Everyone else, bad.

Not me who's seen as a goose mod: do not change user names......  
I asked you to tell us the Muslim states you are against and why.

That way we can weigh it up against all your anti-West rhetoric, which is fairly pronounced.

So go ahead...  make my day.  ;D

Ok, if you can't scroll up and read for yourself...


Quote:

All of them, without exception are bad

hahahahah Abu !!!!!!!!!

There is NO muslim country that you accept ???
yet you want islam over the world ??

can you see why the reasonable free world stringently distrusts you.
You speak nonsense and wish for something unknown.

stick to deleting posts and banninig free speech abu.
Typical attitude of the muslims on the net.

Come on abu...  like sprint says that can't be right.
hence I want a list and reasons.

abu_rashid wrote on Nov 13^th, 2008 at 6:31am:

Actually it'll be the longest list possible. All of them, without exception are bad. In fact one of the main gripes Muslims have against the West is their support of 'Muslim states'. This was recognised by the US government since the time of the Eisenhower Administration.

Just stop at 'states'. Don't need 'Muslim' as there are no such things as 'musslim states'.. You are against the state because it is not the Caliphate. You are against the west inssofar as it stands in the way of the Caliphate.

The Gaza Strip is a good microcosm to show the Caliphate as it would be if writ large - absolutely no non-muslim influence, only financial aid. Complete Muslim self-governance with infidel money.

What do they do? Fight each other. Why not? - all the heirs and successoss of Mohammed were murdered by... er... Mohammedans.

Getting back to the opening question, isn't one of the qualities that god wants from people humility and isn't calling yourself "god's people" the epitome of arrogance?

just a thought.

Thank you very much for returning to the question Phillip.

imho, all people are "Gods people", so of course muslims are "Gods people."
As are athiests, agnostics etc etc etc.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Nov 13^th, 2008 at 10:01pm:

Thank you very much for returning to the question Phillip. imho, all people are "Gods people", so of course muslims are "Gods people." As are athiests, agnostics etc etc etc.

agnostics yeah i can see that, but i don't see how one can reject god and still be "god's person/people". (atheists)

Sprintcyclist wrote on Nov 13^th, 2008 at 10:01pm:

Thank you very much for returning to the question Phillip. imho, all people are "Gods people", so of course muslims are "Gods people." As are athiests, agnostics etc etc etc.

Er... why ask the question then?

God made us all, so we are all his people.
Whether we know him or not, God still loves us.
He's like that.

I prefer athiests to agnostics. Athiests have made a desision.
Agnostics are "waiting" for some way to decide for them.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Nov 13^th, 2008 at 11:42pm:

God made us all, so we are all his people. Whether we know him or not, God still loves us. He's like that. I prefer athiests to agnostics. Athiests have made a desision. Agnostics are "waiting" for some way to decide for them.

Not all, there are atheists who hate religion because they were indoctrinated that way by the state.

Good on them for hating religion.
So do I, so does Jesus.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Nov 14^th, 2008 at 12:20am:

Good on them for hating religion. So do I, so does Jesus.

Depends, he was more against "the rabinical mind"(dogma) and the "prostitution of god"(money lenders).

phil - that is what religion is/does.

in my bible the word religion occurs 6 times. Every time with bad connotations.
The word spiritual appears many hundreds of times.
Guess what we are meant to be ??

Not that many religions would ever teach you that.
They'ld rather have you face down on the floor and coming back later that day thanks.

you can see why abu has banned me from the forum he was given

Phillip wrote on Nov 13^th, 2008 at 9:58pm:

Getting back to the opening question, isn't one of the qualities that god wants from people humility and isn't calling yourself "god's people" the epitome of arrogance? just a thought.

Yes, God seeks our humility.

And our repentance, as a sign of that humility.

Who are God's ppl?

Metaphorically, and throughout the Bible, God's ppl are referred to as, 'the 'Children of Israel'.

"Galatians 4:24  Which things are an allegory:"
....to us.

Only the 'Children of Israel' [God's ppl] will be redeemed by God.

We are God's ppl, we are the 'Children of Israel', if we choose to be.






Every choice we make, has a consequence.

And the wicked, seeing, see not.

That is the wisdom of God.

God is wise, men are foolish.

Men do not see, they are blind!



++++++++


Matthew 7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.


Matthew 12:50
For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.


Matthew 22:36
Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37  Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38  This is the first and great commandment.
39  And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.


Matthew 25:31
When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32  And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33  And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34  Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35  For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36  Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37  Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38  When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39  Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40  And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41  Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:


++++++++


THOSE WHO ARE 'ISRAEL' [GOD'S PPL], WILL BE REDEEMED.


Read Isaiah, describing those who wait for God....


Isaiah 26:8
Yea, in the way of thy judgments, O LORD, have we waited for thee; the desire of our soul is to thy name, and to the remembrance of thee.
9  With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.
10  Let favour be shewed to the wicked, yet will he not learn righteousness: in the land of uprightness will he deal unjustly, and will not behold the majesty of the LORD.
11  LORD, when thy hand is lifted up, they will not see: but they shall see, and be ashamed for their envy at the people; yea, the fire of thine enemies shall devour them.


Isaiah 26:17
Like as a woman with child, that draweth near the time of her delivery, is in pain, and crieth out in her pangs; so have we been in thy sight, O LORD.
18  We have been with child, we have been in pain, we have as it were brought forth wind; we have not wrought any deliverance in the earth; neither have the inhabitants of the world fallen.
19  Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.
20  Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
21  For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.


Psalms 5:4
For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee.





look again at my first post in this thread......

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1226445495/0#0

Sprintcyclist wrote on Nov 13^th, 2008 at 11:42pm:

God made us all, so we are all his people. Whether we know him or not, God still loves us. He's like that. I prefer athiests to agnostics. Athiests have made a desision. Agnostics are "waiting" for some way to decide for them.

Just remind me again. What was the decision that all atheists have made?

I've decided to be 183cm tall and be a Caucasian. Is that a relevant decision?

Personally I prefer people who are fun or interesting to talk to. Whether or not they are religious is irrelevant to me.

- and please pass on my personal thanks to your God for loving me  ;)

Phillip wrote on Nov 14^th, 2008 at 12:18am:

Not all, there are atheists who hate religion because they were indoctrinated that way by the state.

What about Atheists who love religions? Don't people who use the term to describe themselves actually depend somewhat on religion for their self description?

It's a bit like 'vegetarian'. If there were no human carnivores, we wouldn't need the term. To define somebody as a vegetarian, you first need to have people who eat meat. If everybody was a vegetarian then the word would become redundant.

muso - i thought athiests had decided there is no God.
i could be wrong there.


Will pass on your regards :-)

yes, fun people are fun to talk/be with.

Phillip wrote on Nov 13^th, 2008 at 9:58pm:

Getting back to the opening question, isn't one of the qualities that god wants from people humility and isn't calling yourself "god's people" the epitome of arrogance? just a thought.

Phillip,

This cannot be referring to Christians.

I know that this is true, because it say's as much in the Koran.

The Koran states that Christians are not arrogant ppl, but studious.

And the Koran is inerrant.
......[so muslims yell me]

Sprintcyclist wrote on Nov 14^th, 2008 at 10:40am:

muso - i thought athiests had decided there is no God. i could be wrong there.

Sigh ::) - We've been through this before ad nauseum. Please follow my explanation once more. An atheist is a person who doesn't believe in gods. That's the definition I use personally, and I fit with that definition only. Being a person who is non religious is not an important part of my life, and in some ways, I wish I actually had religious faith.

I don't fit with the definition of a "person who has decided there is no god". That is a very specific type of atheist, sometimes called a strong atheist. They do exist but are not very common, and they are by necessity mapped against specific faiths. For example, I believe that Prince Phillip, the sun and the moon all exist, but I don't believe in them as gods. Some do.

The word 'decision' doesn't even fit with my lack of belief in deities. In all honesty, I don't think I could possibly make a decision to suddenly believe in a God or gods and from that point onwards my views would change. In the same way, I think it's laughable to expect you to suddenly decide there is no God. It's something that is important to you, and something that you genuinely believe.  Maybe there are some people who adopt a religion to be cool, but the vast majority are fair dinkum. I'm also fair dunkum.

As I've explained many times before, I don't take the view that either Christianity or Islam or most other religions are harmful in any way, at least in moderation. In fact I think they are beneficial to those who follow them.

It peeves me to see Christians and Muslims at loggerheads. They share very similar faiths. There is a great deal of wisdom in both the Bible and the Qu'ran. Instead of fighting about differences, you guys should be celebrating similarities.

A lot of good work was done in the 90's with the Red Cross and Red Crescent working together in Africa. In many parts of Africa, Christians and Muslims live together in harmony, without suspicion, and often intermarry. That must be about the only good thing that comes out of that part of the world.

Stratos wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2013 at 10:56am:

Yadda wrote on Dec 2nd, 2013 at 10:44am: Stratos, Just more smear, with your lies. Here is the passage. Deuteronomy 16 However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. 17 Completely destroy[a] them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you. That is clear instruction from the God of the Bible for the Jews to commit genocide against 6 separate cultures.  Do you think the behavior is acceptable or not?  That is all I am asking you.   If you provide an answer in a few lines with maybe two colours and font sizes that would be great.

Stratos,

I thought that this thread was more appropriate.

Sorry about all of the lines.......







Deuteronomy 20:16
But of the cities of these people, which the LORD thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth:
17  But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee:
18  That they teach you not to do after all their abominations, which they have done unto their gods; so should ye sin against the LORD your God.


Yes, my God is very harsh and very cruel to his enemies.

"Do you think the behavior is acceptable or not?"

If my God will kill his enemies [or give that authority to others], what can i say against that ?


Luke 19:12
....A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.
13  And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.
14  But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.
15  And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.
16  Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.
17  And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.
18  And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.
19  And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.
20  And another came, saying, Lord, behold, here is thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin:
21  For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow.
22  And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow:
23  Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury?
24  And he said unto them that stood by, Take from him the pound, and give it to him that hath ten pounds.
25  (And they said unto him, Lord, he hath ten pounds.)
26  For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him.
27  But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.


Exodus 15:3
The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.





Q.
What do i think of all of the violence committed by men ?


A.
If men will take to themselves the authority of God [to take life] so as to kill their enemies, those men must answer to God.

And yes, Christians [and Jews] have taken to themselves the authority of God [to take life], because Christians [and Jews] wanted to kill their enemies, and those men must answer to God.

And moslems too have taken to themselves the authority of God [to take life], because moslems wanted to kill their enemies [and the enemies of Allah], and those moslems must answer to God.




Q.
Is there any satisfaction in that we must wait for God to exact revenge for us ?

I suppose that depends upon whether you believe that God exists.


Revelation 6:10
And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

Yadda wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2013 at 9:55pm:

If my God will kill his enemies [or give that authority to others], what can i say against that ?

You can say, "I am not going to follow a God that is willing to ask his people to commit genocide Yadda.  These are six separate cultures here which God commanded his people to utterly destroy, men women and children.  How were the children God's enemies?

If you honestly believe that is acceptable in a religion, that is up to you, but I will have no part of a religion that condones the massacre of innocent children.  And you should definitely not criticise any Muslim extremism while you are condoning a six way genocide just because it is the team you are going for.

Stratos wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2013 at 10:03pm:

Yadda wrote on Dec 2nd, 2013 at 9:55pm: If my God will kill his enemies [or give that authority to others], what can i say against that ? You can say, "I am not going to follow a God that is willing to ask his people to commit genocide Yadda.  These are six separate cultures here which God commanded his people to utterly destroy, men women and children.  How were the children God's enemies? If you honestly believe that is acceptable in a religion, that is up to you, but I will have no part of a religion that condones the massacre of innocent children.  And you should definitely not criticise any Muslim extremism while you are condoning a six way genocide just because it is the team you are going for.

Proverbs 28:5
Evil men understand not judgment: but they that seek the LORD understand all things.





Stratos,

You are on man's 'team'.

You are on man's 'team', because you believe that men have the right to rule themselves.

And by the way, how is that going ???




Men, mankind, are in rebellion against God, against his authority to rule them.

Well, go for it!!!



Stratos,

Men, are proud, vain, greedy, and cruel,    ....and oh yes, men can be ruthlessly violent too, murdering millions of their fellows.

But you are still 'rooting' for men, because men have rights too!        :P


Revelation 12:7
And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8  And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9  And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.



Do you think that you are wiser, or stronger, than God ?

Men do.

Men, always have believed that.



Stratos,

Believe that if you will.

Men are dumb [we are foolish, vain, angry, 'children' who have refused instruction] !





Me ???

Joshua 24:15
And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

I trust God.







+++


Jeremiah 18:1
The word which came to Jeremiah from the LORD, saying,
2  Arise, and go down to the potter's house, and there I will cause thee to hear my words.
3  Then I went down to the potter's house, and, behold, he wrought a work on the wheels.
4  And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.
5  Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying,
6  O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the LORD. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel.
7  At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it;
8  If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them.
9  And at what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it;
10  If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them.



Romans 9:18
Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
19  Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20  Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21  Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

Yadda wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2013 at 10:51pm:

I trust God

Does this mean you agree with God's actions when he ordered the Israelites to massacre 6 separate peoples.

Stratos wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2013 at 10:54pm:

Yadda wrote on Dec 2nd, 2013 at 10:51pm: I trust God Does this mean you agree with God's actions when he ordered the Israelites to massacre 6 separate peoples.

Stratos,

I have no quarrel with God, and with what God ordered the Israelites to do.

God is a lot wiser than me.




Stratos,

Do you understand why God ordered the Israelites to destroy those 6 nations ?





Did you know, that [among many other things] the people of those nations took their sons and their daughters, to 'community' 'barbecues' ?

Do you know, what was 'barbecued' and eaten there ?

The people of those nations committed great and horrible crimes before God.iLeviticus 18:24
Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you:
25  And the land is defiled: therefore I do visit the iniquity thereof upon it, and the land itself vomiteth out her inhabitants.
26  Ye shall therefore keep my statutes and my judgments, and shall not commit any of these abominations; neither any of your own nation, nor any stranger that sojourneth among you:
27  (For all these abominations have the men of the land done, which were before you, and the land is defiled;)
28  That the land spue not you out also, when ye defile it, as it spued out the nations that were before you.
29  For whosoever shall commit any of these abominations, even the souls that commit them shall be cut off from among their people.
30  Therefore shall ye keep mine ordinance, that ye commit not any one of these abominable customs, which were committed before you, and that ye defile not yourselves therein: I am the LORD your God.

Got it.

You are OK with genocide, but only if it's done in the name of your religion.


Yadda wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2013 at 11:12pm:

Did you know, that [among many other things] the people of those nations took their sons and their daughters, to 'community' 'barbecues' ? Do you know, what was 'barbecued' and eaten there ? The people of those nations committed great and horrible crimes before God.

And the children?  they were guilty too?  there would have been babies surely that were put to the sword.

The argument that men like you make [and it is always the same argument!], is that it is wrong to trust the judgement [and instruction] of God.

That, instead, we should rely upon the judgement [and instruction] of men/man, and that, because we have our own best interests at heart.



Go for it!           ;D

It has worked out really, really well, so far!!!   NOT!         :Pi
Psalms 9:10
And they that know thy name will put their trust in thee: for thou, LORD, hast not forsaken them that seek thee.


Psalms 118:8
It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man.


Proverbs 29:25
The fear of man bringeth a snare: but whoso putteth his trust in the LORD shall be safe.


Psalms 25:14
The secret of the LORD is with them that fear him; and he will shew them his covenant.

Yadda: You are trying to justify the murder of babies
and children
and genocide.

It is the absolute height of hypocrisy for you to criticise Muslim extremism while you yourself are justifying these things.

Stratos wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2013 at 6:42am:

Yadda: You are trying to justify the murder of babies and children and genocide. It is the absolute height of hypocrisy for you to criticise Muslim extremism while you yourself are justifying these things.

You still don't see it Stratos, ....that we are all 'babies and children' in God's eyes.

We are all his creation.

And when our physical body dies, our spirit will be released from these earthen prisons [and return to God!].




But getting back to the genocide....

Does God have the right, to do as he pleases with us ?

You say "No!".

I say, of course he does.





Genesis 18:16
And the men rose up from thence, and looked toward Sodom: and Abraham went with them to bring them on the way.
17  And the LORD said, Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do;
18  Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?
19  For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.
20  And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;
21  I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.
22  And the men turned their faces from thence, and went toward Sodom: but Abraham stood yet before the LORD.
23  And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked?
24  Peradventure there be fifty righteous within the city: wilt thou also destroy and not spare the place for the fifty righteous that are therein?
25  That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?
26  And the LORD said, If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes.
27  And Abraham answered and said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord, which am but dust and ashes:
28  Peradventure there shall lack five of the fifty righteous: wilt thou destroy all the city for lack of five? And he said, If I find there forty and five, I will not destroy it.
29  And he spake unto him yet again, and said, Peradventure there shall be forty found there. And he said, I will not do it for forty's sake.
30  And he said unto him, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak: Peradventure there shall thirty be found there. And he said, I will not do it, if I find thirty there.
31  And he said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord: Peradventure there shall be twenty found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for twenty's sake.
32  And he said, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for ten's sake.
33  And the LORD went his way, as soon as he had left communing with Abraham: and Abraham returned unto his place.





Ecclesiastes 2:12
And I turned myself to behold wisdom, and madness, and folly: for what can the man do that cometh after the king? even that which hath been already done.
13  Then I saw that wisdom excelleth folly, as far as light excelleth darkness.
14  The wise man's eyes are in his head; but the fool walketh in darkness: and I myself perceived also that one event happeneth to them all.
15  Then said I in my heart, As it happeneth to the fool, so it happeneth even to me; and why was I then more wise? Then I said in my heart, that this also is vanity.
16  For there is no remembrance of the wise more than of the fool for ever; seeing that which now is in the days to come shall all be forgotten. And how dieth the wise man? as the fool.




Jeremiah 9:23
Thus saith the LORD, Let not the wise man glory in his wisdom, neither let the mighty man glory in his might, let not the rich man glory in his riches:
24  But let him that glorieth glory in this, that he understandeth and knoweth me, that I am the LORD which exercise lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness, in the earth: for in these things I delight, saith the LORD.






Stratos,

If you want to fight against God, if you want to judge God,
....do you really believe that you are qualified, to justly judge what God does ?


And if you will, you can condemn me too.

Because i do not [will not] oppose what God chooses to do.

Yadda wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2013 at 9:15am:

Stratos, If you want to fight against God, if you want to judge God, ....do you really believe that you are qualified, to justly judge what God does ? And if you will, you can condemn me too. Because i do not [will not] oppose what God chooses to do.

I don't believe in God anymore Yadda, primarily because of the things we are talking about now.

You are still saying that the acts of child murder, infanticide and genocide are perfectly acceptable when condoned by a deity, and that is about the most horrible thing I think I've ever heard anyone utter on these forums.

Worse than that, despite the fact you hold these beliefs, you would clearly condemn Muslims for having the same believes you have just admitted to holding.

Stratos wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2013 at 9:44am:

Yadda wrote on Dec 3rd, 2013 at 9:15am: Stratos, If you want to fight against God, if you want to judge God, ....do you really believe that you are qualified, to justly judge what God does ? And if you will, you can condemn me too. Because i do not [will not] oppose what God chooses to do. I don't believe in God anymore Yadda, primarily because of the things we are talking about now.

If that is what you have determined.


Psalms 14:1
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
2  The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God.
3  They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
4  Have all the workers of iniquity no knowledge? who eat up my people as they eat bread, and call not upon the LORD.
5  There were they in great fear: for God is in the generation of the righteous.
6  Ye have shamed the counsel of the poor, because the LORD is his refuge.
7  Oh that the salvation of Israel were come out of Zion! when the LORD bringeth back the captivity of his people, Jacob shall rejoice, and Israel shall be glad.

Those who lie and murder.i

Quote:

You are still saying that the acts of child murder, infanticide and genocide are perfectly acceptable when condoned by a deity, and that is about the most horrible thing I think I've ever heard anyone utter on these forums. Worse than that, despite the fact you hold these beliefs, you would clearly condemn Muslims for having the same believes you have just admitted to holding.

Stratos,

You are a very virtuous person it cannot be denied.         :P

Your 'tolerance' and 'understanding' knowns no limit.




You love the enemies of God, who are murderers and liars.

And i am sorry for you.




John 3:3
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4  Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5  Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6  That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7  Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8  The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.


John 3:31
He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.

Jeremiah 9:23
Thus saith the LORD, Let not the wise man glory in his wisdom, neither let the mighty man glory in his might, let not the rich man glory in his riches:
24  But let him that glorieth glory in this, that he understandeth and knoweth me, that I am the LORD which exercise lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness, in the earth: for in these things I delight, saith the LORD.





God's laws;

Never old.

IMAGE....
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-gvXwPghPsU4/TiV9dY_RIKI/AAAAAAAAC-k/yA0crbVWgvA/s320/10commandments.jpg

Yadda wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2013 at 10:41am:

Those who lie and murder.

including women, children and babies.  I'm sure all those newborn bubs were guilty of....

No wait, nothing.  They have done nothing to deserve their fate as ordained by God

Yadda wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2013 at 10:41am:

You love the enemies of God, who are murderers and liars.

And funnily enough that makes me more of a Christian than you

Matthew 5

43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[a] and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Stratos wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2013 at 10:46am:

Yadda wrote on Dec 3rd, 2013 at 10:41am: Those who lie and murder. including women, children and babies.  I'm sure all those newborn bubs were guilty of.... No wait, nothing.  They have done nothing to deserve their fate as ordained by God Yadda wrote on Dec 3rd, 2013 at 10:41am: You love the enemies of God, who are murderers and liars. And funnily enough that makes me more of a Christian than you Matthew 5 43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[a] and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Stratos,

Yes, i'm sure that you believe that i never forgive those who have hurt and offended me.





But Stratos,

Did Jesus mean, do you think in Matthew 5, that we should therefore dismantle the police force, and close all of the law courts ?

And simply forgive, all of the criminals, for their criminal acts ?

Is that what Jesus meant, when he exhorted; "Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."   ???







The man who said;

Matthew 19:16
......one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17  And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18  He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19  Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.


Also said;

Luke 11:21
When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace:





+++


Jesus said....

John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Who's commandments ???

see Matthew 19:16-19




Jesus was a Torah law teacher.

It is clear that the man Jesus, was Jewish, and that he was Torah observant,
i.e. as a man, Jesus considered himself bound by the laws of Moses.

e.g.
Jesus rebuked the Pharisees for not obeying the law [given by God] in not putting certain criminals [according to God's law] to death.

Matthew 15:3
But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
4  For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.
5  But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me;
6  And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.
7  Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8  This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9  But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.


Jesus also said;

Matthew 5:17
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18  For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19  Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


Which commandments ???

"Thou shalt do no murder,
Thou shalt not commit adultery,
Thou shalt not steal,
Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Honour thy father and thy mother."
Matthew 19:16-19

All of those commandments, above, were quoted by Jesus, directly from the book(s) of the law, the Torah,
Exodus 20:12-16
Deuteronomy 5:16-20




What is the purpose of God's laws ???

Why do we need to respect God's laws ???

Matthew 7:12
Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.






Never old.

IMAGE....
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-gvXwPghPsU4/TiV9dY_RIKI/AAAAAAAAC-k/yA0crbVWgvA/s320/10commandments.jpg

Yadda wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2013 at 10:45am:

God's laws; Never old. IMAGE.... http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-gvXwPghPsU4/TiV9dY_RIKI/AAAAAAAAC-k/yA0crbVWgvA/s320/10commandments.jpg

Gee, Y, are they the original tablets given to Moses? What are they doing in someone's backyard?

Interesting topic...
I've heard it said that Muslims are Satan's people.
That Mohammed was indeed visited in a cave but not by an angel, who would have appeared in the light, but by a demon secreted in the dark of a cave, out of sight of the world, and was taught the words of the great deceiver, which is why the Koran is such a confused piece and why there are so many exhortations to violence and that temptation is used to inspire such acts etc.  That is why lying is recommended...  etc, etc.  Which is why it claims to be the new complete word of God, what better way to set up the final conflict, of man against man.

Didn't Satan appear to Christ in the desert after 40 days and 40 nights of fasting?  Not too much darkness in the desert.

Grendel, you thinly veiled repeat of the same hackneyed old attacks on Islam merely show your prejudices.   ;D  ;D :D ;D :D ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D :D

Grendel wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2013 at 3:37pm:

Interesting topic... I've heard it said that Muslims are Satan's people. That Mohammed was indeed visited in a cave but not by an angel, who would have appeared in the light, but by a demon secreted in the dark of a cave, out of sight of the world, and was taught the words of the great deceiver, which is why the Koran is such a confused piece and why there are so many exhortations to violence and that temptation is used to inspire such acts etc.  That is why lying is recommended...  etc, etc.  Which is why it claims to be the new complete word of God, what better way to set up the final conflict, of man against man.

Angels can come at any time of the day. Mohamed and his companions did see angels in there time in the middle of the day

Moses also punched one of the angels.

Grendel wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2013 at 3:37pm:

Interesting topic... I've heard it said that Muslims are Satan's people. That Mohammed was indeed visited in a cave but not by an angel, who would have appeared in the light, but by a demon secreted in the dark of a cave, out of sight of the world, and was taught the words of the great deceiver, which is why the Koran is such a confused piece and why there are so many exhortations to violence and that temptation is used to inspire such acts etc.  That is why lying is recommended...  etc, etc.  Which is why it claims to be the new complete word of God, what better way to set up the final conflict, of man against man.

Right, as opposed to the pristine Holy Bible which has lead its followers like chuckes up there to justify genocide.

|dev|null wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2013 at 4:00pm:

Didn't Satan appear to Christ in the desert after 40 days and 40 nights of fasting?  Not too much darkness in the desert. Grendel, you thinly veiled repeat of the same hackneyed old attacks on Islam merely show your prejudices.   ;D  ;D :D ;D :D ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D :D

Sorry Jnr, I didn't veil anything...  I may have missed something and not got the phrasing 100% right but most of it is there.
As for Jesus and Satan...  were there people around?  Do you think that perhaps tempting the Son of God is perhaps bigger bickies than say tempting an ordinary man.  Seems to me you are arguing apples and oranges again.

wally1 wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2013 at 5:47pm:

Grendel wrote on Dec 3rd, 2013 at 3:37pm: Interesting topic... I've heard it said that Muslims are Satan's people. That Mohammed was indeed visited in a cave but not by an angel, who would have appeared in the light, but by a demon secreted in the dark of a cave, out of sight of the world, and was taught the words of the great deceiver, which is why the Koran is such a confused piece and why there are so many exhortations to violence and that temptation is used to inspire such acts etc.  That is why lying is recommended...  etc, etc.  Which is why it claims to be the new complete word of God, what better way to set up the final conflict, of man against man. Angels can come at any time of the day. Mohamed and his companions did see angels in there time in the middle of the day Moses also punched one of the angels.

I think you are missing the main points there wally...  wanna try again?

here ya go wally found something for you to read...
http://www.answering-islam.org/Authors/JR/Future/ch11_the_dark_nature.htm

Grendel wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2013 at 6:53pm:

|dev|null wrote on Dec 3rd, 2013 at 4:00pm: Didn't Satan appear to Christ in the desert after 40 days and 40 nights of fasting?  Not too much darkness in the desert. Grendel, you thinly veiled repeat of the same hackneyed old attacks on Islam merely show your prejudices.   ;D  ;D :D ;D :D ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D :D Sorry Jnr, I didn't veil anything...  I may have missed something and not got the phrasing 100% right but most of it is there. As for Jesus and Satan...  were there people around?  Do you think that perhaps tempting the Son of God is perhaps bigger bickies than say tempting an ordinary man.  Seems to me you are arguing apples and oranges again.

How so?  Satan was claimed to be a creature of darkness yet the desert is an awfully bright place and he appeared there to tempt Christ!   ;D ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D :D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Darkness represents evil

Light represets righteousness 

Going on the present day actions of muslims around the globe, they certainly live in darkness.

Are you saying that the Bible isn't the literal word of God?  That when it says darkness or light, it's talking in metaphors?  Got any evidence of that?   :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D

No I don't think it is meant to be taken literally.

The Bible consists of prophecies, parallels, parables etc.
They are not actual instructions. the idea is to look for the spiritual meaning.

moses wrote on Dec 5^th, 2013 at 2:53pm:

Darkness represents evil Light represets righteousness  Going on the present day actions of muslims around the globe, they certainly live in darkness.

Luke 4:17
And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
18  The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
19  To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
20  And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
21  And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.


Matthew 4:12
Now when Jesus had heard that John was cast into prison, he departed into Galilee;
13  And leaving Nazareth, he came and dwelt in Capernaum, which is upon the sea coast, in the borders of Zabulon and Nephthalim:
14  That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying,
15  The land of Zabulon, and the land of Nephthalim, by the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles;
16  The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up.


Isaiah 9:2
The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light: they that dwell in the land of the shadow of death, upon them hath the light shined.


John 3:19
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.


John 1:5
And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.




+++


It is so difficult for men to do what they should, to do what is right.

But even so, God is able [and he willingly chooses], to hold us up. [Psalms 23]

But others he chooses, to simply discard.

Why so.

Because they are judged to be, worthless.

They are devoured in the fire.



Matthew 7:19
Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Isaiah 5:18
Woe unto them that draw iniquity with cords of vanity, and sin as it were with a cart rope:
19  That say, Let him make speed, and hasten his work, that we may see it: and let the counsel of the Holy One of Israel draw nigh and come, that we may know it!
20  Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
21  Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!
22  Woe unto them that are mighty to drink wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink:
23  Which justify the wicked for reward, and take away the righteousness of the righteous from him!
24  Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble, and the flame consumeth the chaff, so their root shall be as rottenness, and their blossom shall go up as dust: because they have cast away the law of the LORD of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel.

moses wrote on Dec 5^th, 2013 at 3:44pm:

No I don't think it is meant to be taken literally. The Bible consists of prophecies, parallels, parables etc. They are not actual instructions. the idea is to look for the spiritual meaning.

You mean like in the Koran?   :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D

No. the qur'an is acknowledged as the literal word of allah, handed down to muhammad. Isn't allah supposed to have a copy of it in his paradise?

So it's pretty clear: Literal commands from allah in the qur'an.

While the Bible uses: Symbols, prophecies, parallels and parables. To impart a spiritual message

|dev|null wrote on Dec 5^th, 2013 at 12:38pm:

Grendel wrote on Dec 3rd, 2013 at 6:53pm: |dev|null wrote on Dec 3rd, 2013 at 4:00pm: Didn't Satan appear to Christ in the desert after 40 days and 40 nights of fasting?  Not too much darkness in the desert. Grendel, you thinly veiled repeat of the same hackneyed old attacks on Islam merely show your prejudices.   ;D  ;D :D ;D :D ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D :D Sorry Jnr, I didn't veil anything...  I may have missed something and not got the phrasing 100% right but most of it is there. As for Jesus and Satan...  were there people around?  Do you think that perhaps tempting the Son of God is perhaps bigger bickies than say tempting an ordinary man.  Seems to me you are arguing apples and oranges again. How so?  Satan was claimed to be a creature of darkness yet the desert is an awfully bright place and he appeared there to tempt Christ!   ;D ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D :D ;D ;D ;D ;D

You read too many comic books and believe too many ignorant childish depictions...

Satan/Lucifer was an Angel.

you need re-education in a major, major way.

|dev|null wrote on Dec 6^th, 2013 at 3:24pm:

moses wrote on Dec 5th, 2013 at 3:44pm: No I don't think it is meant to be taken literally. The Bible consists of prophecies, parallels, parables etc. They are not actual instructions. the idea is to look for the spiritual meaning. You mean like in the Koran?   :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D

Muslims believe the Koran to be the literal word of God not to be changed even in the smallest degree ever.

Like I said...  you need major major re-education.  :D

http://www.islamhelpline.com/node/1193

|dev|null wrote on Dec 5^th, 2013 at 12:38pm:

Grendel wrote on Dec 3rd, 2013 at 6:53pm: |dev|null wrote on Dec 3rd, 2013 at 4:00pm: Didn't Satan appear to Christ in the desert after 40 days and 40 nights of fasting?  Not too much darkness in the desert. Grendel, you thinly veiled repeat of the same hackneyed old attacks on Islam merely show your prejudices.   ;D  ;D :D ;D :D ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D :D Sorry Jnr, I didn't veil anything...  I may have missed something and not got the phrasing 100% right but most of it is there. As for Jesus and Satan...  were there people around?  Do you think that perhaps tempting the Son of God is perhaps bigger bickies than say tempting an ordinary man.  Seems to me you are arguing apples and oranges again. How so?  Satan was claimed to be a creature of darkness yet the desert is an awfully bright place and he appeared there to tempt Christ!   ;D ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D :D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Wassup?  Suddenly your English has failed you completely?  ::) ::) ::)

Grendel wrote on Dec 7^th, 2013 at 2:43pm:

|dev|null wrote on Dec 6th, 2013 at 3:24pm: moses wrote on Dec 5th, 2013 at 3:44pm: No I don't think it is meant to be taken literally. The Bible consists of prophecies, parallels, parables etc. They are not actual instructions. the idea is to look for the spiritual meaning. You mean like in the Koran?   :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D Muslims believe the Koran to be the literal word of God not to be changed even in the smallest degree ever.

So do some Christians about the bible, Beowulf.   ::)

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 7^th, 2013 at 8:06pm:

Grendel wrote on Dec 7th, 2013 at 2:43pm: |dev|null wrote on Dec 6th, 2013 at 3:24pm: moses wrote on Dec 5th, 2013 at 3:44pm: No I don't think it is meant to be taken literally. The Bible consists of prophecies, parallels, parables etc. They are not actual instructions. the idea is to look for the spiritual meaning. You mean like in the Koran?   :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D Muslims believe the Koran to be the literal word of God not to be changed even in the smallest degree ever. So do some Christians about the bible, Beowulf.   ::)

There are lots of ignorant people in the world bwian...  just go check your closest mirror.

Brian Ross wrote:
Quote:

So do some Christians about the bible, Beowulf

This site does not say that the Bible is the literal Word of God.

A couple of small extracts from your site:


Quote:

Biblical inspiration is the doctrine in Christian theology that the authors and editors of the Bible were led or influenced by God with the result that their writings may be designated in some sense the word of God.[1] The Bible contains many passages in which the authors claim divine inspiration for their message, or report the effects of such inspiration on others.

E.G. The writers claim to be influenced by their faith / belief, they believed that the Spirit of God inspired them to write / preach what they did.

A couple more small extracts from your site also:


Quote:

Roman Catholic The Roman Catholic Church holds the Bible as inspired by God, but does not view God as the direct author of the Bible Protestant knowledge of God had become a personal possession of man. The actual writing was a human not a supernatural act Evangelical Evangelicals view the Bible as a genuinely human product, but one whose creation was superintended by the Holy Spirit,

So we see that Christians believe in a book that was written by men who were inspired by their belief, not that it is the actual words of God.

Now as for muslims, well we all know that they believe that the qur'an is the actual word of allah (allah is the author), handed to muhammad. It cannot be changed or reviewed, hence the depraved backwardness of muslims (around the globe) today.

Christianity is the antonym of islam in every respect, no matter how hard you excuse, exonerate and apologise for islamic atrocities, by trying to equate islam with Christianity, truth will vanquish you every time.

Moses, the church I used to attend believed in the concept of "inspiration", that is, inspired by God but written by human hands.  It is quite common, and although it would mean it was not literally written by God, it was and is still the exact message that God wanted to give to his people, so it amounts to the same thing.

It comes from this passage:

2 Timothy 3:16–3:17:
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Also, if the Bible was NOT God's inspired word, then how do believers know it is accurate in what it says, or if they do not, which parts to believe and which parts to ignore?  This is a question I struggled with myself for a long time when I was a Christian.

Stratos
God is / was not the author of the Bible. It was written over a period of what, about sixteen hundred years, by a collection of over forty human authors, who believed they were inspired by their belief in God. Also no man is perfect.

It uses many different literary forms, to give a fairly central message of: reject sin, love God, repent for your sins, live a life today which prepares your soul / inner man / spark of divinity within you, for the hereafter.

I think that is probably the message, the God of the Jews and Christians, wanted to transmit to the human race.

I would agree with you one that point Moses, and that was the conclusion i formed.  What I'm curious about is how you then decide what you believe and what do you discard, and on who's authority?

There are a lot of things regarding forgiveness in the Bible that are very inspirational, but for instance I don't want to believe that women shouldn't speak in church

I'd go along with the perception that Christianity seems to be able to change. As man evolves from the barbaric savage of thousands of years ago to a more enlightened human being of today. The message of love God, reject sin etc., I think would do away with old fashioned ideas which simply don't fit in with today's understanding of humanity.

moses wrote on Dec 8^th, 2013 at 5:02pm:

I'd go along with the perception that Christianity seems to be able to change. As man evolves from the barbaric savage of thousands of years ago to a more enlightened human being of today. The message of love God, reject sin etc., I think would do away with old fashioned ideas which simply don't fit in with today's understanding of humanity.

Yeah that was more or less my take home message from my time as a believer too.  But then I never could reconcile that with sections such as in James where it says that if you are guilty of one crime, then you are guilty of all.  The majority of people in the churches I went to (Baptist and Pressie) were of the belief that all scripture is gospel truth. 

Is there any particular reason you don't think Muslims can do the same? Pick and choose to a certain extent I mean.

Of course they (Muslims) are 'God's people'...ALL religions are 'God's People' Otherwise there's no point to the religion..

Stratos

Quote:

Yeah that was more or less my take home message from my time as a believer too.  But then I never could reconcile that with sections such as in James where it says that if you are guilty of one crime, then you are guilty of all.  The majority of people in the churches I went to (Baptist and Pressie) were of the belief that all scripture is gospel truth.

 


It always gets back to the same thing, God is not the author. Over 40 men who were inspired by their belief composed the Bible.

You would be aware of **Question the Spirit** teachings of Christianity


Quote:

Luke 9:54  And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did? Luke 9:55  But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of. Luke 9:56  For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village 1Johnn 4:1  Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

I believe that there were / stll are, some very overzealous people who promote the message in a most authoritarian, improper, manner all together.

So my take is that Christians should examine the proposal / belief, then ask them selves where is this coming from?

Is it from overzealousness etc, where does it stand in our enlightened way of thinking today.


Quote:

Is there any particular reason you don't think Muslims can do the same? Pick and choose to a certain extent I mean.

The child sex, the inbreeding, the slaughter of innocent men, women and children, the oppression of and discrimination against non muslims, is all justified by islam / allah / muhammad/ qur'an. It is the literal word of allah, he is the author. Today in 2013 these human rights atrocities are still being carried out on a monumental scale around the globe.

Untill muslims and their apologists tell the truth, and point the finger of blame, exactly where it belongs (the islamic conglomeration of evil) there will be no progress.

Trying to equate islam with Christianity. (is not going to work)

Blaming everyone else, because the muslims themselves are to blame. (is not going to work)

The root cause is right there in front of every muslim, stand up and be counted.

However they can't do this as this destroys the *perfect qur'an, impeccable muhammad, allah is the righteous almighty * propaganda.

islam would implode, the blood of men, women and children, would flow thick and fast. so they just keep on lying.

muslims who claim moderation, but refuse to castigate the evilness in islam which causes these human rights atrocities, are showing moral support for the perpetrators.

Grendel wrote on Dec 7^th, 2013 at 10:10pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 7th, 2013 at 8:06pm: Grendel wrote on Dec 7th, 2013 at 2:43pm: |dev|null wrote on Dec 6th, 2013 at 3:24pm: moses wrote on Dec 5th, 2013 at 3:44pm: No I don't think it is meant to be taken literally. The Bible consists of prophecies, parallels, parables etc. They are not actual instructions. the idea is to look for the spiritual meaning. You mean like in the Koran?   :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D Muslims believe the Koran to be the literal word of God not to be changed even in the smallest degree ever. So do some Christians about the bible, Beowulf.   ::) There are lots of ignorant people in the world bwian...  just go check your closest mirror.

Funny how you aren't quite so willing to accord the same motivation to Islamist extremists, Beowulf.

So, we have two supposedly divinely inspired works, the Bible and the Q'ran.  Yet I haven't heard you criticising Christian extremists, Beowulf.  I wonder why?   ::)

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 8^th, 2013 at 10:22pm:

Grendel wrote on Dec 7th, 2013 at 10:10pm: Brian Ross wrote on Dec 7th, 2013 at 8:06pm: Grendel wrote on Dec 7th, 2013 at 2:43pm: |dev|null wrote on Dec 6th, 2013 at 3:24pm: moses wrote on Dec 5th, 2013 at 3:44pm: No I don't think it is meant to be taken literally. The Bible consists of prophecies, parallels, parables etc. They are not actual instructions. the idea is to look for the spiritual meaning. You mean like in the Koran?   :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D Muslims believe the Koran to be the literal word of God not to be changed even in the smallest degree ever. So do some Christians about the bible, Beowulf.   ::) There are lots of ignorant people in the world bwian...  just go check your closest mirror. Funny how you aren't quite so willing to accord the same motivation to Islamist extremists, Beowulf. So, we have two supposedly divinely inspired works, the Bible and the Q'ran.  Yet I haven't heard you criticising Christian extremists, Beowulf.  I wonder why?   ::)

Oh but I am bwian...  but we don't have Christians blowing people up everyday or calling for unbelievers to be beheaded etc, etc, etc...
We don't have Christian leaders describing woman as meat, nor do most Christians defend or ignore bad behaviour by fellow Christians.
I didn't just refer to Muslims as ignorant did I bwian...  you are such a disingenuous prig.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_gcA0ZuKGkI8/S0iXdwgPDLI/AAAAAAAAFdw/CYJYbsVycq4/s400/head_up_your_ass2.jpg

ALL religions think they are God's Chosen People.....otherwise, what's the point in being a member??

gizmo_2655 wrote on Dec 9^th, 2013 at 6:54am:

ALL religions think they are God's Chosen People.....otherwise, what's the point in being a member??

True gizmo.

But;
'My God is bigger, than his god.'           ;)          :D          ;D

moses wrote on Dec 8^th, 2013 at 6:12pm:

It always gets back to the same thing, God is not the author. Over 40 men who were inspired by their belief composed the Bible. You would be aware of **Question the Spirit** teachings of Christianity

Again though, how do you know which things are gospel truth?  Or is it down to personal interpretation, and you can pick and choose at will (including things like women not talking in church, or making pariahs of people who have left the faith)?  Also, the whole thing of the spirit is referring to one of two things, the Holy Spirit (good) and demonic influences (bad).  Surely you aren't suggesting that the Bible was written by people who were inspired by demons?


moses wrote on Dec 8^th, 2013 at 6:12pm:

The child sex, the inbreeding, the slaughter of innocent men, women and children, the oppression of and discrimination against non muslims, is all justified by islam / allah / muhammad/ qur'an. It is the literal word of allah, he is the author. Today in 2013 these human rights atrocities are still being carried out on a monumental scale around the globe.

These things are not typical of an Islamic believer.  While they may be able to be justified (you would have to ask someone more knowledgeable than I), the vast majority of Muslims have nothing to do with any of these practices.

moses wrote on Dec 8^th, 2013 at 6:12pm:

muslims who claim moderation, but refuse to castigate the evilness in islam which causes these human rights atrocities, are showing moral support for the perpetrators.

Have you condemned Yadda for his support of genocide based on his Christian beliefs yet? 

I've heard it said that only God is capable of true creation...  I remember once when the Koran was discussed in relation to the Bible...  and how it was postulated that the Koran is a creation of Satan, who is incapable of true original creation and as the "Prince of Liars" based it on earlier teachings twisted into a confusing tome of lies and half-truths.
It was also noted that there could be no better way, to sow the seeds of disharmony and set up an end times confrontation.

Yadda wrote on Dec 9^th, 2013 at 8:47am:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Dec 9th, 2013 at 6:54am: ALL religions think they are God's Chosen People.....otherwise, what's the point in being a member?? True gizmo. But; 'My God is bigger, than his god.'           ;)          :D          ;D

How blasphemous!  Are you likening your Christian God to your penis?   :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D

Grendel wrote on Dec 9^th, 2013 at 10:03am:

I've heard it said that only God is capable of true creation...  I remember once when the Koran was discussed in relation to the Bible...  and how it was postulated that the Koran is a creation of Satan, who is incapable of true original creation and as the "Prince of Liars" based it on earlier teachings twisted into a confusing tome of lies and half-truths. It was also noted that there could be no better way, to sow the seeds of disharmony and set up an end times confrontation.

[/quote]

Really?  Who told you that?  Some Christian preacher?   

So, the real Grendel is showing through - a consumer of Christian brand opiate!  :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D :D ;D

Grendel wrote on Dec 7^th, 2013 at 10:10pm:

There are lots of ignorant people in the world bwian...  just go check your closest mirror.

Yes there are and it appears you're now stepping out of your closet!  Fundamental Christian!   :D :D :D :D ;D ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D :D

Happy for you to do what you've so far been completely incapable of Jnr...  ever proving anything I say wrong.

:D ;D :D ::)

For your information and yes I know it is a waste of my time...  I am nothing like a fundamentalist Christian.

So it seems you are completely wrong again... :D

Stratos

Quote:

Again though, how do you know which things are gospel truth?  Or is it down to personal interpretation, and you can pick and choose at will (including things like women not talking in church, or making pariahs of people who have left the faith)?  Also, the whole thing of the spirit is referring to one of two things, the Holy Spirit (good) and demonic influences (bad).  Surely you aren't suggesting that the Bible was written by people who were inspired by demons?

I suppose most Christians would be capable of determining whether certain verses belong to another era a couple of thousand years ago, and adapt to the modern enlightened society of today.

As for your demons bit, I don't think so, just overzealous men putting their authoritarian slant on things.

Western society has progressed nicely, unlike muslims we are not shackled to the past.


Quote:

These things are not typical of an Islamic believer.  While they may be able to be justified (you would have to ask someone more knowledgeable than I), the vast majority of Muslims have nothing to do with any of these practices.

Like I said when the muslims and their apologists start telling the truth, and lay the blame for islamic atrocities, where it belongs: islam / allah / muhammad /qur'an is the root cause of all islamic atrocities.


Quote:

Have you condemned Yadda for his support of genocide based on his Christian beliefs yet?

Does Yadda support genocide? You'll have to bring me up to speed on this. I recall Yadda posting along the lines of, he had no problems with accepting what had happened in Deuteronomy about 3000 years ago.

However I live in present and look to the future

I am more worried about the actual words of allah, which are causing all the bloodshed around the globe today 2013

Yadda wrote on Dec 9^th, 2013 at 8:47am:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Dec 9th, 2013 at 6:54am: ALL religions think they are God's Chosen People.....otherwise, what's the point in being a member?? True gizmo. But; 'My God is bigger, than his god.'           ;)          :D          ;D

But it's the same God....just the messenger's interpretations are different.

Grendel wrote on Dec 9^th, 2013 at 3:31pm:

Happy for you to do what you've so far been completely incapable of Jnr...  ever proving anything I say wrong. :D ;D :D ::) For your information and yes I know it is a waste of my time...  I am nothing like a fundamentalist Christian. So it seems you are completely wrong again... :D

I love how you couch your criticisms in, "I've been told...", "I've heard..."  Subtle but in reality just the same fundamentalist Christian bullsh!t peddled by bigots.  At least most of the bigots here don't rely on hearsay, I'll grant them that.  ;D ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D ;D ;D ;D ;D

The Great Satan doing his evil work against Islam.  WARNING! May offend some Muslims.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P99p6l8v0FQ#t=189

|dev|null wrote on Dec 10^th, 2013 at 12:05pm:

Grendel wrote on Dec 9th, 2013 at 3:31pm: Happy for you to do what you've so far been completely incapable of Jnr...  ever proving anything I say wrong. :D ;D :D ::) For your information and yes I know it is a waste of my time...  I am nothing like a fundamentalist Christian. So it seems you are completely wrong again... :D I love how you couch your criticisms in, "I've been told...", "I've heard..."  Subtle but in reality just the same fundamentalist Christian bullsh!t peddled by bigots.  At least most of the bigots here don't rely on hearsay, I'll grant them that.  ;D ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D ;D ;D ;D ;D

You mean "bigots" and "fundamentalists" you are incapable of proving wrong... :D
There is one very active group of Bigots here Jnr and they all wear the family cap...
http://rlv.zcache.com/romney_is_a_bigot_png_mesh_hat-r43e2ff0aac764bbaaccd9550a1db132a_v9wqr_8byvr_324.jpg
The Bwaintwust...

Soren wrote on Dec 11^th, 2013 at 5:45pm:

The Great Satan doing his evil work against Islam.  WARNING! May offend some Muslims. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P99p6l8v0FQ#t=189

How is this "working against Islam", Soren?

It may offend some Christians too, you realise?  ::)

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 14^th, 2013 at 6:29pm:

Soren wrote on Dec 11th, 2013 at 5:45pm: The Great Satan doing his evil work against Islam.  WARNING! May offend some Muslims. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P99p6l8v0FQ#t=189 How is this "working against Islam", Soren?

It's life-affirming.

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 14^th, 2013 at 6:29pm:

Soren wrote on Dec 11th, 2013 at 5:45pm: The Great Satan doing his evil work against Islam.  WARNING! May offend some Muslims. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P99p6l8v0FQ#t=189 How is this "working against Islam", Soren? It may offend some Christians too, you realise?  ::)

Soren wouldn't realise if his little ass was on fire.

Is vaseline flammable?

:-/

Quote:

COMMENT; ISLAM is a corrupt and corrupting criminal [by our laws] philosophy. ISLAM creates 'moslems'. moslems = = human sewage ISLAM produces only [political] corruption, [political] oppression, injustice, human poverty, and, dead bodies. The truth is that ISLAM is an evil philosophy, which, imo, 'creates' a mental pathology [a 'sickness'] in the psyche of those human beings who choose to embrace it. And ISLAM is spread by moslems.

We should not seek to destroy what is wicked....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1388087903/24#24






NOT SO!!!!

Just ask a moslem!




THE CLAIMS;
Moslems insist that ISLAM, is a/the perfect religion, given to moslems by Allah.
Moslems insist that they, moslems, are afforded human virtue, because they follow ISLAM.



"Ye [moslems] are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah. If only the People of the Book had faith, it were best for them: among them are some who have faith, but most of them are perverted transgressors."
Koran 3.110



Moslems claim that their community are the rightly guided people.
Moslems claim that, among mankind, they, moslems and their community, are the only virtuous people, because moslems worship Allah and follow ISLAM.
Moslems insist, and it is a primary doctrine of ISLAM, that all mankind must be compelled to worship Allah and be subject [subjugated!] to the dictates of ISLAM and moslems.




Pakistani cleric: 'We want Islamic law for all Pakistan and then the world. We would like to do this by preaching. But if not then we would use force.'
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2007/12/pakistani-cleric-we-want-islamic-law-for-all-pakistan-and-then-the-world-we-would-like-to-do-this-by.htmliChimp_Logic wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2013 at 8:44pm:

You have to admit that Muslim people are way ahead of citizens in western nations, when it comes to morality and integrity of character. The statistics and obvious results of Islam proves this without a shadow of a doubt.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/Nojoud%20Muhammad%20Nasser.jpg
This 8 year old Yemeni 'wife' was continually raped by her lawful husband.




April 11, 2008
8-year-old girl seeks divorce in Yemen
.....SANA’A, April 9 - An eight-year-old girl decided last week to go the Sana’a West Court to prosecute her father, who forced her to marry a 30-year-old man......
.......Whenever I wanted to play in the yard he beat me and asked me to go to the bedroom with him. This lasted for two months," added Nasser. "He was too tough with me, and whenever I asked him for mercy, he beat me and slapped me and then used me.


http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1231993677/36#36
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1315270914/16#16
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1236217597/2#2
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1302177029/3#3

FROM THE 'PERSPECTIVE' OF THE MOSLEM;


THIS, IS ISLAM;



Chimp_Logic wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2013 at 8:44pm:

You have to admit that Muslim people are way ahead of citizens in western nations, when it comes to morality and integrity of character. The statistics and obvious results of Islam proves this without a shadow of a doubt.

iISLAM does not afford human virtue, to man, nor to any moslem, imo.



What ISLAM does do, is to 'sanctify' virtually every criminal act you could imagine, whenever those criminal acts are committed against Allah's enemies [i.e. against virtually everyone who is not a moslem].



You see, the ummah [the worldwide moslem community] are a closed community [in law, i.e. in moslem law].

To ISLAMIC law [to good moslems!], those persons outside the ummah have the status of cattle.

Those outside the ummah [non-moslems] can live, while they are 'useful' to moslems, but they are not 'protected' [in law].

as per....
"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11




What ISLAM does, is to make criminal acts lawful, to a moslem.

e.g.
ISLAM makes Political oppression [i.e. tyranny], lawful, to the moslem.
ISLAM makes Theft of property, lawful, to the moslem.
ISLAM makes Robbery, lawful, to the moslem.
ISLAM makes Rape, lawful, to the moslem.
ISLAM makes Threatening intimidation and assault, lawful, to the moslem.
ISLAM makes Inciting murder, lawful, to the moslem.
ISLAM makes Actual murder, lawful, to the moslem.



And, child rape ?

Because of the example of Mohammed [i.e. because it was lawful for Mohammed to marry a 6 year old girl, and 'consummate' that marriage when the girl was 9 years old];
ISLAM makes child marriage [and therefore Child Rape], lawful, to an adult moslem man.



So you see, ISLAM does not create virtue in a man [i.e. in the moslem], ISLAM simply makes virtually all criminal behaviour, 'lawful'!

i.e.
ISLAM 'legitimises' what other men, and other political jurisdictions, would regard as criminal behaviour.

And, child rape ? - child rape is 'legitimised', by ISLAM.



What ISLAM does is to make criminal acts 'lawful', to the person who self-declares;

"I am a moslem.";




ISLAMIC law makes lawful such crimes - as rape, plunder and murder, so long as such criminal behaviour is committed by moslems, in the name of 'the cause of Allah', against any person who is not a moslem.i
ISLAM makes lawful the [sexual] exploitation and abuse of young female children, when a moslem man LAWFULLY marries such female children.

Commonly in [many] Sharia jurisdictions, young female children [as young as 8 years old] and an adult moslem man, can be lawfully married - even when such a young female child [as young as 8 years old] has no capacity to give her informed consent to such a 'union'.

ISLAMIC law declares that the silence of a young female child, constitutes lawful consent.




COMMENT;
Do you begin to understand now, the manner in which the authority of ISLAM, makes criminal behaviour, by moslem men, lawful ?

abu_rashid wrote on Mar 19^th, 2012 at 8:29pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 19th, 2012 at 7:50pm: I am not asking you whether Islam conforms to my concept of freedom, or to anyone else's. I am asking you whether you think Islam rejects freedom - obviously this means your own view of freedom. Ok, according to my view of freedom, no, Islam does not reject freedom, it came to establish it for all mankind.

ISLAM came to establish freedom for all mankind ???




Quote:

Narrated Ibn 'Umar:     Allah's Apostle said: "I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle, and offer the prayers perfectly and give the obligatory charity, so if they perform all that, then they save their lives and property from me except for Islamic laws and then their reckoning (accounts) will be done by Allah."

http://www.cmje.org/religious-texts/hadith/bukhari/002-sbt.php#001.002.025


ISLAM came to establish freedom for all mankind ???

Not so.

What Mohammed says [above], is that no man [and his property] safe from him [Mohammed] unless he becomes a moslem.

Is that freedom ?

Mohammed himself declares, that ISLAM establishes [makes 'lawful'] moslem violence upon [and the robbery of], all mankind, who are not moslems.

Essentially, ISLAM makes moslems 'free' [i.e. 'sanctifies' moslem violence]........to oppress, non-moslems.
/sarc off

Essentially, ISLAM makes moslems 'free'........to become CRIMINALS, and to become the oppressors of non-moslems.


While non-moslems [within close proximity to moslems], are enslaved to forever defend themselves, from 'lawful' moslem violence against them.




ISLAM, brings violence, death, and enslavement to mankind.

And most of all, to moslems.

As we have proof of, daily....


THE RELIGION OF PEACE
http://thereligionofpeace.com/

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 16^th, 2013 at 12:42pm:

presumably you can prove to me that the 10 men murdered by the budhists had participated in violence, murder, terrorism etc against budhists?

The 10 moslems who were murdered, were moslems.


Blasphemy laws an impediment to Islamic reform

Yadda wrote on Mar 12^th, 2013 at 9:36am:

You, and other moslems, have made your choice gandalf. You choose to associate yourself with what ISLAM is. OK. Bear it!

i
Quote:

Do you think it was a proportionate response to one girl getting raped and murdered?

LIAR.

There have been many, many, other incidents where moslems took their 'liberties' with Myanmar locals.

And YOU know that.iQuote:

What is your opinion of the massacre of 200 muslims and burning of mosques in the area in 2001?

"I'm a moslem!
Allah makes it lawful for me to kill disbelievers who offend me!
Allah makes it lawful for me to rape the infidel women!

BUT NOBODY MUST HARM MEEEEEEE!"


gandalf,

If wolves have attacked a farmers sheep.

Is the farmer going to hold fire, and not shoot a wolf that he sees on his farm - because maybe, this wolf, was an 'innocent' wolf ???i

Quote:

Do you justify all this on the basis that muslims "had it coming"?

"I'm a moslem!
Allah makes it lawful for me to kill disbelievers who offend me!
Allah makes it lawful for me to rape the infidel women!

BUT NOBODY MUST HARM MEEEEEEE!"


gandalf,

If wolves have attacked a farmers sheep.

Is the farmer going to hold fire, and not shoot a wolf that he sees on his farm - because maybe, this wolf, was an 'innocent' wolf ???

A moslem, is a moslem, is a moslem.




Quote:

I still maintain contact with a number of my friends the world over who happen to be Muslim. They are perfectly normal people - not Jihadists.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1336270614/22#22


You are non-moslem, and you have a moslem friend.

Sorry, >>NO<<, you don't.

Well let me put it this way; If you are not a moslem, he is NOT your friend.



If a person chooses to declare; "I am a moslem.", and if that same person 'intimates' to you, that he is your moslem friend, >> THAT MOSLEM IS A BARE FACED LIAR <<.

>> ISLAMIC law [Sharia Law] << makes it very clear, that it is unlawful for a moslem to have a sincere friendship with a, spit, spit, non-moslem.

If you are moslem, being a moslem, and being the friend of a non-moslem are EXCLUSIVE circumstances.    [ <---- i.e. ISLAMIC law mandates, that these circumstances cannot occur together.]

Every moslem worthy of the name knows that that is truthful.

And that >> FACT << is proclaimed within ISLAM's most important foundation text, the inerrant, straight from Allah's lips, Koran.

"....take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends....
......he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them."
Koran 5.51

n.b.
ISLAM regards Jews and the Christians as non-moslems.

"Let not the believers take for friends or helpers unbelievers rather than believers. If any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah; except by way of precaution, that ye may guard yourselves from them..."
Koran 3:28

Again, the Koran commands, and ISLAMIC doctrine insists, that it is unlawful for moslems to make friends with unbelievers except to "guard yourselves from them": i.e. pretend to be their friends so that you can strengthen yourself against them.

But if moslem secretly or openly 'intimates' to you, that he you are his friend, you should not be surprised.

Because it is commonly known that moslems will commonly lie to 'unbelievers', to decieve 'unbelievers', to further 'the cause of Allah' [i.e. Jihad], against Allah's enemies [the 'unbelievers'].


Google;
taqiyya - the muslim doctrine of deceit

Google;
we smile to the face "while our hearts curse them"

“Speaking is a means to achieve objectives. If a praiseworthy aim is attainable through both telling the truth and lying, it is unlawful to accomplish it through lying because there is no need for it. When it is possible to achieve such an aim by lying but not by telling the truth, it is permissible to lie if attaining the goal is permissible..., and obligatory to lie if the goal is obligatory. ...One should compare the bad consequences entailed by lying to those entailed by telling the truth, and if the consequences of telling the truth are more damaging, one is entitled to lie…”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqiyya



If moslems are continually lying to non-moslems, and if moslems are misrepresenting ISLAM to non-moslems,
AND THEY ARE, AND IT CAN BE PROVEN THAT THEY ARE,
......then using Arabic terminology to define who the Kuffar [i.e. the infidels] are, then who >> are << the real Kuffar [i.e. the infidels] ???

"kuffar" = = "...is an Arabic word meaning.....[an unbeliever] a person....who hides, denies, or covers the truth."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuffar



Moslems, by definition, are among the very Kuffar, that they claim to despise, AND, they, moslems, WILL GO TO HELL.

Because moslems agree, that that is where all infidels will wind up.

Adamant wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 10:08pm:

falah wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 9:57am: Paying compensation for crimes is not a Jew tax Freeliar.I believe compensation for crimes can be sought under Australian law Will the muslims now pay full restitution for the war crimes they have committed?

adamant,

What war crimes ???

ISLAMIC law makes it 'lawful' for moslems to persecute, oppress, and to murder 'unbelievers'.

So moslems do not commit 'war crimes'.





ISLAM teaches every moslem from childhood, that 'unbelievers' ['those who reject Allah'] have no protection in their moslem society, and that the moslem duty, their obligation to ISLAM, their Jihad, is to destroy every un-ISLAMIC community [ the community which has given those moslems sanctuary], and to replace that society with ISLAM and its law of violence and oppression.


1/    "...Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith." [i.e. 'Unbelief' [in man] is a crime.].
Koran 2.98
[ - - All of 'unbelieving' mankind, are the declared enemy of moslems.]


2/    "...those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47:8-11


3/    "...And why should ye not fight in the cause of Allah...Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah, and those who reject Faith Fight in the cause of Evil: So fight ye against the friends of Satan:...."
Koran 4.74-76

John Smith wrote on Jul 12^th, 2012 at 8:35am:

What an absolute load of Bollocks ..... you rednecks have no idea Any refugee in Indonesia can NEVER get a job, Never own a home or business, they live in jails, slums or on the streets begging and stealing for enough food to survive ..... the odd ones that do work, do so for cash money only and usually at a lessor rate than an Indonesian may get for the same job .....they have no rights ... this isn't living ... it's no way to raise a family or plan for a future ... I'd like to see any one of you morons settle for that .....

So, Indonesia.

It is just another ISLAMIC 'paradise' then ?


Q.
And what makes Indonesia, an 'ISLAMIC paradise' ?

A.
Indonesia, is an 'ISLAMIC paradise' because of the influence of ISLAM in that country. And because of the rule of moslems [ISLAMISTS, duh!], who are the majority, in that country.





So your argument then, is, that because >> MOSLEMS << have made societal hell holes of every nation that they have taken over, your argument is that non-moslem nations like Australia, must absorb displaced >> moslems << so that >> moslems << can bring their dysfunctional and violent and unjust culture, to non-moslem counties like Australia ???

Why ?

Why, if we [non-moslems] have rejected the barbarity and injustice of a philosophy like ISLAM [which e.g. sanctions, and makes it lawful [in ISLAMIC law] for moslems to kill [i.e. MURDER!!] their own children], would we want moslems around us, and to have moslems seeking to impose their BARBARIC philosophy upon us ???

ISLAM, is a death cult, moslems have chosen to embrace that death cult.

"....the death of those who are killed for the cause of God gives more impetus to the cause, which continues to thrive on their blood."
ISLAMIC scholar, Sayyid Qutb, .......A moslem, promoting, justifying, ISLAM's murder of those who do not believe, as they believe.




I, as an Australian, reject ISLAM, and i reject its religious call to subjugate me, to ISLAM's incessant and sick urgent desire for the political supremacism, worldwide, of ISLAM.



"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."
Koran 9.29

"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123




If moslems want ISLAM, then let them seek 'political asylum' and sanctuary, in >> moslem << countries like Egypt...

"The Koran is our constitution, the Prophet is our leader, jihad is our path and death in the name of Allah is our goal."
Morsi - Recently elected PRESIDENT of Egypt.

abu_rashid wrote on Dec 18^th, 2011 at 5:21pm:

... wrote on Dec 15th, 2011 at 3:50pm: I've been wondering - what possesses a western man to make him convert to islam? Perhaps we're looking for a better way of life than the downward spiral that is Western secular democracy? Not everyone wants to run themselves into the ground becoming a slave to their own desires.

LOL, LOL, LOL, LOL.




Abu,

When we examine the conduct of moslems today [and 'yesterday'], when we examine the doctrines of ISLAM, then your protestations [in isolation] about Western society being "slaves to their own desires" is an absurdity,
......when it is clear that you are ignoring the behaviour of moslem men, who are tainted by the exact same vices as Western men.


e.g.

Quote:

"....Islamic leaders routinely castigate the West for its immorality, but their alternative is this veneer of morality covering barbarity, brutality, and the use of women as commodities. ........"We want our youth to be protected from adultery," said Al-Mutairi, suggesting that these maids could be brought as prisoners of war in war-stricken nations like Chechnya to be sold on later to devout [i.e. moslem] merchants. This is not religiously forbidden," she added,"

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/06/kuwait-female-political-activist-calls-for-legalizing-sex-slavery-to-protect-men-from-adultery-or-co.html

i.e.
In the article above, ISLAMISTS are saying, that the keeping of captive [non-moslem] women [within Sharia jurisdictions] as sex slaves, is completely 'lawful' within ISLAM.
And that raping those sex slaves [female captives] is halal [i.e. kosher].
see also...
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/06/egyptian-imam-when-i-want-a-sex-slave-i-just-go-to-the-market-and-choose-the-woman-i-like-and-purcha.html



FURTHER....

If we examine the sunna of Mohammed, it is clear that Mohammed himself, and his companions too, WERE "slaves to their own desires".

Dictionary;
Sunna = = the traditional portion of Muslim law based on Muhammad’s words or acts, accepted (together with the Koran) as authoritative by Muslims.



And it is the testimony of ISLAMIC texts which attest to the fact, that Mohammed and his companions WERE "slaves to their own desires".

Moslems today, ARE "slaves to their own desires".



THE FACT IS THAT...
Allah allows moslem men to rape female [non-moslem] captives.

Moslem logic exposed;

Q.
WHY SO?
Why does Allah permit moslem men to rape female [non-moslem] captives ???

A.
Allah makes it 'LAWFUL' for moslem men to rape female [non-moslem] captives, so as to protect those moslem men from committing adultery and being guilty of moral corruption.

LOL, LOL, LOL, LOL.

Adultery AND moral corruption, is bad, and punishable by death within ISLAMIC law.

But it is halal [kosher] for a moslem man, to rape female [non-moslem] captives.

And Allah says that that, is moral behaviour.

Go figure.....



+++


Mohammed's example, in the Hadith provides the proof to moslems that moslem men can 'lawfully' have non-consensual sex with their female captives....


n.b. THESE WORDS [below] ARE DIRECTLY QUOTED FROM THE HADITH [i.e. the sunnah of Mohammed]


Quote:

"on the expedition to the Bi'l-Mustaliq and took captive some excellent Arab women" "for we were suffering from the absence of our wives" "and we desired them" "So we decided to have sexual intercourse with them"

"Rape your 'war booty', its OK, say ISLAMIC texts"
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1251760605/0#0


Dictionary;
Sunna = = the traditional portion of Muslim law based on Muhammad’s words or acts, accepted (together with the Koran) as authoritative by Muslims.




+++



Moslem logic exposed;

Hey Abu,

Q.
When we can see that moslems today [and 'yesterday'], clearly ARE and WERE "slaves to their own desires", what makes you, or any moslem man, unlike Western men ???

Oh right, YOU ARE MOSLEMS, AND YOU FOLLOW ISLAM.
.....so you moslems think that you are are meritorious [irrespective of the conduct], BECAUSE YOU ARE MOSLEMS.

Right?

LOL, LOL, LOL, LOL.

n.b.
The Koran states...... that Mohammed is a wonderful example for all muslims to follow [his deceit?].
.....[the veracity of such a self-aggrandising statement, seeing that Mohammed himself received this 'revelation' from Allah, about his own virtue, is worth considering].

"Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day, and who engages much in the Praise of Allah. "
Koran 33.021





My advice to moslems is to consider;
If you yourself follow Mohammed's example, in this life,
.....then when your life is over, surely you can also expect go to that same place, where Muhammad is?

Allah's paradise ???

Remember, that Mohammed was a confirmed liar, and murderer.

ISLAMIC texts, attest to that fact.

ISLAM;

Any organisation which teaches its members that it is lawful for its own members to kill those outside of its group, should be banned [by an act of the Australian parliament].



Quote:

"....the death of those who are killed for the cause of God gives more impetus to the cause, which continues to thrive on their blood."

ISLAMIC scholar, Sayyid Qutb




A moslem = = is a person who is a member of a group/community of persons, and who embrace a violent political philosophy [which portrays itself as a justice-based 'religious' philosophy], but which encourages intimidation and extreme violence as 'acts of religious faith', against persons who do not believe as they believe.

Who is a moslem ?

Dictionary;
Muslim = = a follower of Islam.


ISLAM should have its 'religion' status stripped from it, and ISLAM, and its practise in Australia should be proscribed [banned] by law.

Why so ?

Because ISLAM is a violent political philosophy [which masquerades as, and portrays itself as, a justice-based 'religious' philosophy].

Because ISLAM is a political philosophy which legitimises [i.e. MAKES LAWFUL!!] political violence against anyone, who oppose the political aspirations of moslems!

What Australia SHOULD DO [and which is just as unlikely to happen], is that the Australian government should declare ISLAM to be a proscribed organisation - in Australia.

Dictionary;
proscribe = = forbid, especially by law.      denounce or condemn.

And then arrest any and every person who self declares as a moslem, and intern them using force [until they can arrange their own exit from Australia].

Why so ?

Why should Australia declare ISLAM a proscribed organisation, in Australia ?

Because 'MAINSTREAM' ISLAM legitimises [and encourages] criminal violence against all non-moslems, against everyone who is outside of the moslem 'camp'.

Because ISLAM legitimises oppressing non-moslems [within a moslem majority jurisdiction] and imposing the status of cattle upon everyone who is outside of the moslem 'camp'.

Because it is the purposeful intention of moslems within Australia, to destroy the laws of this country, and to forcefully impose Sharia law upon us - making us the slaves of moslems.



The only thing which is protecting us [at this time] from the moslem intent of active violence against us, are Australian laws, and our will to enforce those laws.

But it is the intention of moslems living in Australia to destroy our society, and to destroy the institutions and laws which protect our peace and our liberties.




And if we let them do so, moslems will destroy our society.

That is their intent.

Yadda wrote on Dec 8^th, 2013 at 7:19pm:

I call for the lawful judgement, of a group of people who are seeking to change Australia, so as to make moslem violence, and moslem murder [of those who are not moslems] a lawful act. I want ISLAM to become a proscribed organisation in Australia [and in other western nations].