Gandalf, Brian and the other apologists have often held up Malaysia as an example of a moderate Muslim country. Gandalf even tried to defend the majority support among Malaysian Muslims for the death penalty for apostasy and stoning cheating child brides to death for adultery as not what they really want, even though one state actually passed this into law. This latest news shows that even in the younger and more progressive regions in terms of the social dominance of Islam, human rights are going backwards thanks to Islam. Malaysian Muslims have imposed a whole raft of laws designed to further coerce people into adopting Islam.

Six Muslim men sentenced to jail, fine for going to waterfall instead of Friday prayers

https://sg.news.yahoo.com/six-muslim-men-sentenced-jail-144815609.html

KUALA LUMPUR, Dec 1 — In what is possibly the first case in the country, six male Muslims, including three teenagers, were sentenced to a month in jail and fined over RM2,000 for skipping out on Friday prayers last August 23.

Khairul Azle Abdul Rasid, 35; Abdul Malek Mohd, 25; Muhamad Hafizi Abdul Razak, 22; Muhammad Aliff Fikri A Mazzani, 19; and two unnamed 17-year-old boys were given the sentence by Syarie judge Nik Mohd Shahril Irwan Mat Yusof at the Hulu Terengganu Lower Shariah Court earlier today after pleading guilty to a charge of deliberately missing the compulsory Friday prayers, Harian Metro reported on its website.

All six were unrepresented while Syarie Nurul Taqwa Hasbul prosecuted.

According to the Malay daily, the six were accused of violating Section 16 of the Terengganu Syariah Criminal Enactment (Takzir) amendment 2016, which provides for a maximum jail sentence of two years, or a fine up to RM3,000 on those convicted.

While all six were ordered to be locked up one month, father of two Khairul Azle got the heftiest fine of RM2,500. The others who were all bachelors were each fined RM2,400.

Citing the charge sheet, Harian Metro reported the six to have committed the Islamic offence at the Sekayu Waterfall between 1pm and 1.50pm on August 23, 2019.

The six were reportedly busted during a raid by the Terengganu Islamic Religious Affairs Department.

Its female officers had entered the recreation area first for surveillance and found the six accused to be among several people picnicking with their families at the waterfall area instead of being at the mosque for their obligatory prayers that Friday.

The male officers went in and made the arrests after Friday prayers ended, according to the daily.

i bet you orgasmed when you found this story .... right FD? ;D ;D

John Smith wrote on Dec 18^th, 2019 at 7:42pm:

i bet you orgasmed when you found this story .... right FD? ;D ;D

John Smith,

Listening to western music, is against ISLAMIC law.

Western music, is an un-ISLAMIC influence upon people - HARAM.

And what these followers of ISLAM did to the students [in search result, below] was lawful.

That consequence, must have made you very, very happy.    ....did YOU too, have an orgasm on reading the details ?



WWW search....
iraq, death at immoral picnic in the park

BTW....
Those murders occurred,    after    the U.S. had 'liberated' Iraqi society, from the oppression of Saddam Husein's regime.




Quote:

Iraq: Students beaten to death for playing music - Freemuse [Search domain freemuse.org/news/iraq-students-beaten-to-death-for-playing-music/] https://freemuse.org/news/iraq-students-beaten-to-death-for-playing-music/ In the southern Iraqi city of Basra, dozens of men from a private militia poured into a local park where a group of students were having a picnic. The men were armed with guns, and shouted at the students that they were "immoral", because they were meeting boys and girls together, and playing music.

Iraqis, post their 'liberation'....

Proverbs 26:11
As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.


Sounds as clever as someone like yourself, 'John Smith'.

Until a century or so ago, it was the same with Christianity.  People were fined, ostracised and imprisoned for not attending services on Sunday.  In the UK at least

Didn't matter that they lived in a snow-bound cottage miles from church. Didn't matter they didn't have decent enough clothes or even shoes suitable for attending church.  Didn't matter they had nothing to eat

All those with British genes would probably discover, were they to research their family history, that one or two of their ancestors had been punished for failure to attend church

This is a state law which was apparently introduced in 2016. Most states now have some penalty for this sort of thing.

Malaysia certainly has regressed in the last couple of decades or so.

Yes I was wrong if I ever held up Malaysia as some bastion of religious moderation. Mea culpa.

Australia: Woman fined for having only 'one' bag to pick up dog poo. ::)
True.

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 19^th, 2019 at 8:19am:

This is a state law which was apparently introduced in 2016. Most states now have some penalty for this sort of thing. Malaysia certainly has regressed in the last couple of decades or so. Yes I was wrong if I ever held up Malaysia as some bastion of religious moderation. Mea culpa.

So in a nutshell they've become more Islamic and less secular.
RaRa Islam?

Correct Gordon.

20 years ago it was a very different country. People living there will attest to this.

It won't be long before we have such crazy laws here.

Gordon wrote on Dec 19^th, 2019 at 9:13am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 19th, 2019 at 8:19am: This is a state law which was apparently introduced in 2016. Most states now have some penalty for this sort of thing. Malaysia certainly has regressed in the last couple of decades or so. Yes I was wrong if I ever held up Malaysia as some bastion of religious moderation. Mea culpa. So in a nutshell they've become more Islamic and less secular. RaRa Islam?

No.

Where they have the 'space' [social 'environment'] to do so, there are elements [NOT 'more radical'] within any moslem community, which will 'emerge', and seek to assert ISLAMIC law.
[e.g. Aceh in Indonesia]
WWW search....     Sharia Is Here to Stay in Indonesia's Aceh

But these 'radicals' were there, all of the time.

They were merely 'hiding' their views, from open public 'view', previously.



.



IMAGE...
http://www.think-israel.org/jan12pix/sheikh.yassir.al-burhami.jpg

Sheikh Yassir al-Burhami



Quote:

How Circumstance Dictates Islamic Behavior January 18, 2012 Preach Peace When Weak, Wage War When Strong "...all notions of peace with non-Muslims are based on circumstance. When Muslims are weak, they should be peaceful; when strong, they should go on the offensive."

Sheikh Yassir al-Burhami - an ISLAMIC scholar and Egyptian Salafi leader
http://www.raymondibrahim.com/from-the-arab-world/how-circumstance-dictates-islamic-behavior/

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 19^th, 2019 at 8:19am:

This is a state law which was apparently introduced in 2016. Most states now have some penalty for this sort of thing. Malaysia certainly has regressed in the last couple of decades or so. Yes I was wrong if I ever held up Malaysia as some bastion of religious moderation. Mea culpa.

What about the other two - Indonesia and Turkey?

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 19^th, 2019 at 8:19am:

This is a state law which was apparently introduced in 2016. Most states now have some penalty for this sort of thing. Malaysia certainly has regressed in the last couple of decades or so. Yes I was wrong if I ever held up Malaysia as some bastion of religious moderation. Mea culpa.

Forgiven.



gandalf,

You are a moslem, a follower of ISLAM.

Q.
What could you possibly [authoritatively] know about 1/ ISLAM, about ISLAM's mores and laws, or 2/ about religious moderation ?

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 19^th, 2019 at 9:20am:

Correct Gordon. 20 years ago it was a very different country. People living there will attest to this.

So are you saying Islam is not so cool after all?

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 19^th, 2019 at 8:19am:

This is a state law which was apparently introduced in 2016. Most states now have some penalty for this sort of thing. Malaysia certainly has regressed in the last couple of decades or so. Yes I was wrong if I ever held up Malaysia as some bastion of religious moderation. Mea culpa.

Yadda wrote on Dec 19^th, 2019 at 7:23pm:

gandalf, You are a moslem, a follower of ISLAM. Q. What could you possibly [authoritatively] know about 1/ ISLAM, about ISLAM's mores and laws, or 2/ about religious moderation ?

gandalf,

Allah is your god.
.....the Allah of the Koran.

Allah states, the holy and inerrant Koran states,     ...that 1/ every disbeliever is under a sentence of death, and 2/ that it is the religious obligation of every follower of ISLAM, to fight and to kill the disbelievers [before they have a chance, to die due to Allah's curses upon them].

Where is the 'space', within ISLAM, for religious moderation ?

Aw gee the poor bloody muslim can't be blamed his holy books are stacked against him/her.

this source tells us


Quote:

Fight/ Kill/ Murder:-        In the English language, Fight can mean to : Combat, Struggle, Resist, Strife, War, do battle. In the Arabic language, one word QATL with its DERIVATIVES can mean all of the following: Fight: Qital, Kifah, 'Airak, Harb, etc Kill: Qatl, Thabh, Jazr Murder: Qatl Slaughter: Thabh, Jazr Slay: Qatl KILL, MURDER, FIGHT, COMBAT, SLAY, PUT TO DEATH, SLAUGHTER, ETC. Invariably, the interpreters of the Quran use the more 'sanitised' terms to convey a more moderate connotation. This word Qital, Qatl, Qatala, Yaqtulu, Youqatilou,  is usually used against all those who do not believe in Muhammad and his Quran. This word and its derivatives are repeated in the Quran and Ahadith at least 35,213 times.

You see KILL, MURDER, FIGHT, COMBAT, SLAY, PUT TO DEATH, SLAUGHTER, ETC. are taught 35,213 times in the holy books.

then this site tells us

Quote:

[/b]164 Jihad Verses in the Koran[/b] The Koran’s 164 Jihad Verses: K 002:178-179, 190-191, 193-194, 216-218, 244; 003:121-126, 140-143, 146, 152-158, 165-167,169, 172-173, 195; 004:071-072, 074-077, 084, 089-091, 094-095,100-104; 005:033, 035, 082; 008:001, 005, 007, 009-010, 012, 015-017, 039-048,057-060, 065-075; 009:005, 012-014, 016, 019-020, 024-026, 029,036, 038-039, 041, 044, 052, 073, 081, 083,086, 088, 092, 111, 120, 122-123; 016:110; 022:039, 058, 078; 024:053, 055; 025:052; 029:006, 069; 033:015, 018, 020, 023, 025-027, 050; 042:039; 047:004, 020, 035; 048:015-024; 049:015; 059:002, 005-008, 014; 060:009; 061:004, 011, 013; 063:004; 064:014; 066:009; 073:020; 076:008

164 verses of jihad in the quran plus the words KILL, MURDER, FIGHT, COMBAT, SLAY, PUT TO DEATH, SLAUGHTER, ETC. are taught 35,213 times in the holy books.


Now let's be fair how many time is the word love used in the qur'an?

well this site tells us


Quote:

The word love, hubb in its various grammatical forms, is used 69 times in the Qur'an. The writer has divided these into five categories: (1) Man's Love of Things (15 times) (2) Human Love (15 Times) (3) Man's Love for God (7 times) (4) Negative - God Does Not Love The ... (22 times) (5) God's love for Man (20 times)

A mere 79 times love is mentioned and some of this teaches that allah does not love certain people.

So we have over 35,000 times the muslims are told to slaughter etc., 164 verses of jihad and a lousy 79 verses where the word love is used,.

no wonder muslims are the top 24 listed worldwide terrorist organizations.

When will muslims and their apologists stop lying to us and deal with the hate and depravity in islamic doctrine which causes islamic terrorism? 

freediver wrote on Dec 19^th, 2019 at 6:58pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 19th, 2019 at 8:19am: This is a state law which was apparently introduced in 2016. Most states now have some penalty for this sort of thing. Malaysia certainly has regressed in the last couple of decades or so. Yes I was wrong if I ever held up Malaysia as some bastion of religious moderation. Mea culpa. What about the other two - Indonesia and Turkey?

Well, I could do what you do and cite a single incident in a country of hundreds of millions, to conclude that the country is an anti-freedom "oppressive shithole" - and ignore every single piece of evidence that disagrees with that... and then spend the next 40 pages pretending that it wasn't based on a single incident, all the while refusing to actually cite all this other evidence you assure me exists.

But I think I'll pass.

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 20^th, 2019 at 9:27am:

freediver wrote on Dec 19th, 2019 at 6:58pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 19th, 2019 at 8:19am: This is a state law which was apparently introduced in 2016. Most states now have some penalty for this sort of thing. Malaysia certainly has regressed in the last couple of decades or so. Yes I was wrong if I ever held up Malaysia as some bastion of religious moderation. Mea culpa. What about the other two - Indonesia and Turkey? Well, I could do what you do and cite a single incident in a country of hundreds of millions, to conclude that the country is an anti-freedom "oppressive shithole" - and ignore every single piece of evidence that disagrees with that... and then spend the next 40 pages pretending that it wasn't based on a single incident, all the while refusing to actually cite all this other evidence you assure me exists. But I think I'll pass.

gandalf,

You can't legitimately [in debate], just 'pass' ISLAM.   [i.e. pretend that ISLAM is not an influence on nations of people.]

And pretend that the precepts, the tenets, and the laws of ISLAM, are not responsible for influencing the frequent, violent and criminal behaviour of your 'brothers'.

But i know, that that is exactly what you will do.
....gandalf, why don't you surprise me, and tell me that i am mistaken.




Yadda said....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1576661570/13#13

Quote:

gandalf, Allah is your god. .....the Allah of the Koran. Allah states, the holy and inerrant Koran states,     ...that 1/ every disbeliever is under a sentence of death, and 2/ that it is the religious obligation of every follower of ISLAM, to fight and to kill the disbelievers [before they have a chance, to die due to Allah's curses upon them]. Where is the 'space', within ISLAM, for religious moderation ?

-------- >



EXAMPLE, from the U.S.A.



IN THE USA,      WATCH THE MOSQUE LEADER URGING YOUNG MOSLEM MEN TO TAKE UP ARMS IN ALLAH'S CAUSE;




Quote:

"....be brave [...'and fight and kill the enemies of Allah'] ....grab on to the gun, and the sword, don't be afraid to step out into this world and do your job."

-------- >

Massachusetts Governor Deval Patrick and the Imam
7 min
https://youtu.be/qUYIHRRaPmA


https://youtu.be/qUYIHRRaPmA



n.b.
Moslems living in the West are actively [NOT 'accidentally'], teaching their children, how to practice ISLAM, by obedience to Allah and by obedience to the dictates of their religion.

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 19^th, 2019 at 8:19am:

Malaysia certainly has regressed in the last couple of decades or so. .

so has Indonesia, they are becoming increasingly fundamentalist and regressive. Do you see any majority Christian countries heading down this regressive path?

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 20^th, 2019 at 9:27am:

freediver wrote on Dec 19th, 2019 at 6:58pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 19th, 2019 at 8:19am: This is a state law which was apparently introduced in 2016. Most states now have some penalty for this sort of thing. Malaysia certainly has regressed in the last couple of decades or so. Yes I was wrong if I ever held up Malaysia as some bastion of religious moderation. Mea culpa. What about the other two - Indonesia and Turkey? Well, I could do what you do and cite a single incident in a country of hundreds of millions, to conclude that the country is an anti-freedom "oppressive shithole" - and ignore every single piece of evidence that disagrees with that... and then spend the next 40 pages pretending that it wasn't based on a single incident, all the while refusing to actually cite all this other evidence you assure me exists. But I think I'll pass.

So jailing a politician for blasphemy doesn't stop Muslims holding up a country as an example of progressive Islam?

Malaysia is becoming less secular and MORE Islamic.

Why do you have a problem with this G?

China's establishing its new Silk Road.  That's a big area of interest to izrail.  And China is reeducating and displacing Uighurs

China is also establishing its maritime Silk Road

then there's India's latest expulsion of Muslims and India is strongly influenced by izrail

what does this all mean for muslims?

more to the point, what will it mean for Australia?

Gordon wrote on Dec 20^th, 2019 at 12:59pm:

Malaysia is becoming less secular and MORE Islamic. Why do you have a problem with this G?

Because I am not the caricature you want me to be.

freediver wrote on Dec 20^th, 2019 at 11:33am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 20th, 2019 at 9:27am: freediver wrote on Dec 19th, 2019 at 6:58pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 19th, 2019 at 8:19am: This is a state law which was apparently introduced in 2016. Most states now have some penalty for this sort of thing. Malaysia certainly has regressed in the last couple of decades or so. Yes I was wrong if I ever held up Malaysia as some bastion of religious moderation. Mea culpa. What about the other two - Indonesia and Turkey? Well, I could do what you do and cite a single incident in a country of hundreds of millions, to conclude that the country is an anti-freedom "oppressive shithole" - and ignore every single piece of evidence that disagrees with that... and then spend the next 40 pages pretending that it wasn't based on a single incident, all the while refusing to actually cite all this other evidence you assure me exists. But I think I'll pass. So jailing a politician for blasphemy doesn't stop Muslims holding up a country as an example of progressive Islam?

No. In exactly the same way as jailing someone for holocaust denial doesn't stop you (or most other people) holding up Australia as a bastion of free speech.

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 20^th, 2019 at 1:15pm:

Gordon wrote on Dec 20th, 2019 at 12:59pm: Malaysia is becoming less secular and MORE Islamic. Why do you have a problem with this G? Because I am not the caricature you want me to be.

Oh, really.     ???


Yadda said....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1576661570/13#13

Quote:

gandalf, Allah is your god. .....the Allah of the Koran. Allah states, the holy and inerrant Koran states,     ...that 1/ every disbeliever is under a sentence of death, and 2/ that it is the religious obligation of every follower of ISLAM, to fight and to kill the disbelievers [before they have a chance, to die due to Allah's curses upon them]. Where is the 'space', within ISLAM, for religious moderation ?

gandalf,

Q.
So, is that information,     in my quote box above, incorrect ?

Yadda wrote on Dec 20^th, 2019 at 2:54pm:

Allah states, the holy and inerrant Koran states,     ...that 1/ every disbeliever is under a sentence of death,

Of course its incorrect. It is directly contradicted by the inerrant Koran:

"The truth is from your Lord, so whoever wills - let him believe; and whoever wills - let him disbelieve." 18:29

Let there be no compulsion in religion 2:256

Quote:

2:6-7 allah has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing, and over their vision is a veil. And for them is a great punishment  In their hearts is disease, so allah has increased their disease; and for them is a painful punishment because they [habitually] used to lie. 2:10 4.143 : (They are) distracted in mind even in the midst of it,- being (sincerely) for neither one group nor for another whom allah causes to go astray,- never wilt thou find for him the way. 5:41 O messenger, let them not grieve you who hasten into disbelief of those who say, "We believe" with their mouths, but their hearts believe not, and from among the Jews. [They are] avid listeners to falsehood, listening to another people who have not come to you. They distort words beyond their [proper] usages, saying "If you are given this, take it; but if you are not given it, then beware." But he for whom allah intends fitnah - never will you possess [power to do] for him a thing against Allah. Those are the ones for whom allah does not intend to purify their hearts. For them in this world is disgrace, and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment. 6.039 : Those who reject our signs are deaf and dumb,- in the midst of darkness profound: whom Allah willeth, He leaveth to wander: whom he willeth, He placeth on the way that is straight 6:125 So whoever allah wants to guide - he expands his breast to [contain] Islam; and whoever He wants to misguide - he makes his breast tight and constricted as though he were climbing into the sky. Thus does allah place defilement upon those who do not believe. 10.100 : No soul can believe,except by the will of allah, and he will place doubt (or obscurity) on those who will not understand 13.027 : The Unbelievers say: "Why is not a sign sent down to him from his lord?" Say: "Truly allah leaveth, to stray, whom he will; But he guideth to himself those who turn to him in penitence, 13:33-34 allah leads disbelievers astry while he torments them in this life. Then afterh they die, he makes them suffer even more pain in the doom of the Hereafter. 14.004 : We sent not a messenger except (to teach) in the language of his (own) people, in order to make (things) clear to them. Now allah leaves straying those whom he pleases and guides whom he pleases: and he is exalted in power, full of wisdom. 14:27 allah keeps firm those who believe, with the firm word, in worldly life and in the Hereafter. And allah sends astray the wrongdoers. And allah does what He wills. 17.046 : And we put coverings over their hearts (and minds) lest they should understand the qur'an, and deafness into their ears: when thou dost commemorate thy lord and him alone in the qur'an, they turn on their backs, fleeing (from the truth). 16.093 : If allah so willed, he could make you all one people: But he leaves straying whom he pleases, and he guides whom he pleases: but ye shall certainly be called to account for all your actions.  17:97 And whoever allah guides - he is the [rightly] guided; and whoever he sends astray - you will never find for them protectors besides him, and We will gather them on the Day of Resurrection [fallen] on their faces - blind, dumb and deaf. Their refuge is hell; every time it subsides We increase them in blazing fire.  18.057 : And who doth more wrong than one who is reminded of the signs of his lord, but turns away from them, forgetting the (deeds) which his hands have sent forth? Verily we have set veils over their hearts lest they should understand this, and over their ears, deafness, if thou callest them to guidance, even then will they never accept guidance. 19.083 : Seest thou not that We have set the Evil Ones on against the unbelievers, to incite them with fury? 27.004 : As to those who believe not in the hereafter, we have made their deeds pleasing in their eyes; and so they wander about in distraction. 32;13 If we had so willed, we could certainly have brought every soul its true guidance: but the word from me will come true, "I will fill hell with jinns and men all together."

Ahh yes the inerrant qur'an definitely says that allah causes disbelief in people.

In a zillion other places it says that allah wants muzzies to slaughter these disbelievers (holler if ya want me to post them).

One sick psychopathic bit of blood crazed filth is the qur'an.

When are people going to be truthful about the qur'an?

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 20^th, 2019 at 3:54pm:

Yadda wrote on Dec 20th, 2019 at 2:54pm: Allah states, the holy and inerrant Koran states,     ...that 1/ every disbeliever is under a sentence of death, Of course its incorrect. It is directly contradicted by the inerrant Koran: "The truth is from your Lord, so whoever wills - let him believe; and whoever wills - let him disbelieve." 18:29

Yes gandalf, we can't compel the disbelievers, to believe, in Allah.
.....but if they still openly declare their disbelief, we fight against them and we kill them!
Koran 9.123
Koran 9.29
Koran 9.111
.....and many more.

Fighting against disbelievers and killing disbelievers, is not abrogated by 18:29



.




polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 20^th, 2019 at 3:54pm:

Of course its incorrect. It is directly contradicted by the inerrant Koran: Let there be no compulsion in religion 2:256

Yes gandalf, we can't compel the disbelievers, to believe, in Allah.
.....but if they still openly declare their disbelief, we fight against them and we kill them!
Koran 9.123
Koran 9.29
Koran 9.111
.....and many more.

Fighting against disbelievers and killing disbelievers, is not abrogated by 2:256



18:29, and 2:256 are presented, by the follower of ISLAM today, to present an argument to an ethical 'contest'.

But the argument which the follower of ISLAM brings to the debate, is pure deceit, through sophistry.


sophistry = = the use of fallacious arguments, especially to deceive.    a fallacious argument.


And every moslem understands the application in debate, of the fallacious argument, in order to defend ISLAM, against accusations by the enemy of Allah.

----- >


Quote:

"....the death of those who are killed for the cause of God gives more impetus to the cause, which continues to thrive on their blood."

- ISLAMIC scholar, Sayyid Qutb, .......PROMOTING, JUSTIFYING, ISLAM's VIOLENT JIHAD




.




IMAGE...
http://www.think-israel.org/jan12pix/sheikh.yassir.al-burhami.jpg

Sheikh Yassir al-Burhami



Quote:

How Circumstance Dictates Islamic Behavior January 18, 2012 Preach Peace When Weak, Wage War When Strong "...all notions of peace with non-Muslims are based on circumstance. When Muslims are weak, they should be peaceful; when strong, they should go on the offensive."

Sheikh Yassir al-Burhami - an ISLAMIC scholar and Egyptian Salafi leader
http://www.raymondibrahim.com/from-the-arab-world/how-circumstance-dictates-islamic-behavior/



.



"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123


"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29


"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:...."
Koran 9.111

moses wrote on Dec 20^th, 2019 at 5:25pm:

Quote: 2:6-7 allah has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing, and over their vision is a veil. And for them is a great punishment  In their hearts is disease, so allah has increased their disease; and for them is a painful punishment because they [habitually] used to lie. 2:10 [SNIP for space] 10.100 : No soul can believe,except by the will of allah, and he will place doubt (or obscurity) on those who will not understand 13.027 : The Unbelievers say: "Why is not a sign sent down to him from his lord?" Say: "Truly allah leaveth, to stray, whom he will; But he guideth to himself those who turn to him in penitence, 13:33-34 allah leads disbelievers astry while he torments them in this life. Then afterh they die, he makes them suffer even more pain in the doom of the Hereafter. 14.004 : We sent not a messenger except (to teach) in the language of his (own) people, in order to make (things) clear to them. Now allah leaves straying those whom he pleases and guides whom he pleases: and he is exalted in power, full of wisdom. 14:27 allah keeps firm those who believe, with the firm word, in worldly life and in the Hereafter. And allah sends astray the wrongdoers. And allah does what He wills. 17.046 : And we put coverings over their hearts (and minds) lest they should understand the qur'an, and deafness into their ears: when thou dost commemorate thy lord and him alone in the qur'an, they turn on their backs, fleeing (from the truth). 16.093 : If allah so willed, he could make you all one people: But he leaves straying whom he pleases, and he guides whom he pleases: but ye shall certainly be called to account for all your actions.  17:97 And whoever allah guides - he is the [rightly] guided; and whoever he sends astray - you will never find for them protectors besides him, and We will gather them on the Day of Resurrection [fallen] on their faces - blind, dumb and deaf. Their refuge is hell; every time it subsides We increase them in blazing fire.  18.057 : And who doth more wrong than one who is reminded of the signs of his lord, but turns away from them, forgetting the (deeds) which his hands have sent forth? Verily we have set veils over their hearts lest they should understand this, and over their ears, deafness, if thou callest them to guidance, even then will they never accept guidance. 19.083 : Seest thou not that We have set the Evil Ones on against the unbelievers, to incite them with fury? 27.004 : As to those who believe not in the hereafter, we have made their deeds pleasing in their eyes; and so they wander about in distraction. 32;13 If we had so willed, we could certainly have brought every soul its true guidance: but the word from me will come true, "I will fill hell with jinns and men all together." Ahh yes the inerrant qur'an definitely says that allah causes disbelief in people. In a zillion other places it says that allah wants muzzies to slaughter these disbelievers (holler if ya want me to post them). One sick psychopathic bit of blood crazed filth is the qur'an. When are people going to be truthful about the qur'an?

Never a moslem,      ....whenever he is presenting ISLAM, to an uninformed, naive non-moslem.




"ISLAM ES PAZ"


IMAGE.....
http://www.infranken.de/storage/image/5/6/5/3/2673565_cms2image-fixedwidth-900x0_1pCjLB_n1lRiw.jpg


Everyone knows that true ISLAM, is a religion of peace.

/sarc off




.




IMAGE.....
https://media.apnarm.net.au/media/images/2017/11/07/b881068575z1_20171107205225_000ge0rs2e22-0-ng9i021y6asqs5118p2_fct2507x1880_ct460x345.jpg

Ali Kadri - Islamic Council of Queensland vice-president,
features in The Mosque Next Door on SBS.




Quote:

"There's no underlying religious text or reasons why [moslems] go out and kill people......"

- Ali Kadri
------- >
https://www.northernstar.com.au/news/we-wont-stop-terrorist-attacks-by-blaming-islam/3259588/



.




Quote:

“Peace and love are at the center of our religion, as evidenced by scripture and history,...”

- Sheikh Abdullah Bin Bayyah
CITED... https://www.jihadwatch.org/2019/02/uae-forum-promotes-dubious-islamic-peace

I have often stated that the *moderates* who don't want to be honest about the filth and depravity in the qur'an are quiet happy with the status quo of muslims spilling blood globally, today 21st century.

Polite gandi knows that truth will destroy his religion, so rather that see islam die he prefers the global atrocities being committed in the name of allah.

Every single muslim who lies and says the qur'an is infallible and unchangeable, by definition supports every single atrocity committed in the name of allah.

Support the cause, you support the atrocities engendered.

moses wrote on Dec 20^th, 2019 at 6:21pm:

I have often stated that the *moderates* who don't want to be honest about the filth and depravity in the qur'an are quiet happy with the status quo of muslims spilling blood globally, today 21st century. Polite gandi knows that truth will destroy his religion, so rather that see islam die he prefers the global atrocities being committed in the name of allah. Every single muslim who lies and says the qur'an is infallible and unchangeable, by definition supports every single atrocity committed in the name of allah. Support the cause, you support the atrocities engendered.

And they do !!!!




Every moslem, is a moslem !

Every moslem, is a follower, of ISLAM !




.




Yadda said....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1431117115/1#1

Quote:

"every moslem in Australia is a latent, wanna-be homicidal maniac" - Yadda QUESTION; What about the innocent moslems ? IMO, [logically] there are no innocent moslems [among persons who have come to the age of consent], and yet still declare themselves to be moslems. How so [logically] ? QUESTION; How credible is it that a person who is devout enough to insist that he is a moslem, is unaware of what ISLAM promotes, and is unaware of what the principle tenets of ISLAM are ? QUESTION; How 'innocent' is a person who agrees to give aid and comfort [and to give their own 'power'],      ...to a philosophy which transforms human beings, into homicidal maniacs ? QUESTION; How 'innocent' is a person who agrees to give aid and comfort [and to give their own 'power'],     ...to a philosophy which claims that murdering, in the cause of religious bigotry, is a religious virtue ?

.



Moslem = = a follower of ISLAM.



Checkout the 'Aussie' moslem children, being taught by their own parents,
how to practice ISLAM.   !!!!!!

-------- >

Yadda said....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1536141258/46#46

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1534830555/0#0





Its ISLAM.

Its ISLAM.

Its ISLAM.


Stupid !

Stupid !

Stupid !

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 20^th, 2019 at 1:24pm:

freediver wrote on Dec 20th, 2019 at 11:33am: polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 20th, 2019 at 9:27am: freediver wrote on Dec 19th, 2019 at 6:58pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 19th, 2019 at 8:19am: This is a state law which was apparently introduced in 2016. Most states now have some penalty for this sort of thing. Malaysia certainly has regressed in the last couple of decades or so. Yes I was wrong if I ever held up Malaysia as some bastion of religious moderation. Mea culpa. What about the other two - Indonesia and Turkey? Well, I could do what you do and cite a single incident in a country of hundreds of millions, to conclude that the country is an anti-freedom "oppressive shithole" - and ignore every single piece of evidence that disagrees with that... and then spend the next 40 pages pretending that it wasn't based on a single incident, all the while refusing to actually cite all this other evidence you assure me exists. But I think I'll pass. So jailing a politician for blasphemy doesn't stop Muslims holding up a country as an example of progressive Islam? No. In exactly the same way as jailing someone for holocaust denial doesn't stop you (or most other people) holding up Australia as a bastion of free speech.

Every incident is a single incident if you insist on wearing blinkers Gandalf. Malaysia for example has only jailed people for skipping prayers and going on a picnic instead on one occasion.


polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 20^th, 2019 at 3:54pm:

Yadda wrote on Dec 20th, 2019 at 2:54pm: Allah states, the holy and inerrant Koran states,     ...that 1/ every disbeliever is under a sentence of death, Of course its incorrect. It is directly contradicted by the inerrant Koran: "The truth is from your Lord, so whoever wills - let him believe; and whoever wills - let him disbelieve." 18:29 Let there be no compulsion in religion 2:256

Also, kill the infidel.

freediver wrote on Dec 20^th, 2019 at 7:20pm:

Every incident is a single incident if you insist on wearing blinkers Gandalf.

You argue that Indonesia is an oppressive shithole and cite the single incident of a politician being jailed for blasphemy as proof.

I merely apply the exact same logic and say that Australia is an oppressive shithole by citing a single incident of someone being jailed for denying the holocaust to prove it.

If you can show me why one is valid but not the other I'm all ears.

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2019 at 8:40am:

freediver wrote on Dec 20th, 2019 at 7:20pm: Every incident is a single incident if you insist on wearing blinkers Gandalf. You argue that Indonesia is an oppressive shithole and cite the single incident of a politician being jailed for blasphemy as proof. I merely apply the exact same logic and say that Australia is an oppressive shithole by citing a single incident of someone being jailed for denying the holocaust to prove it. If you can show me why one is valid but not the other I'm all ears.

I only gave you one example from Malaysia this time Gandalf. Of course, I had given you plenty from both Malaysia and Indonesia before, but you always managed to put your blinkers on and insist that each in turn was just one example. So why did you suddenly remove your blinkers in the case of Malaysia, but not for the other countries?

Here's one that Yadda prepared earlier:

Unmerry Christmas: Christians in West Sumatra banned from holding Christmas service

https://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2019/12/19/unmerry-christmas-christians-in-west-sumatra-banned-from-holding-christmas-service.html

There is zero dispute Indonesia is becoming increasingly fundamentalist  and are increasingly persecuting Christians and other minorities. Jokowi also picked as his running  mate and now Vice resident Ma'ruf Amin who is a hard line Islamic fundamentalist.

I think I understand why Gandalf was suddenly able to see the light on Malaysia. It's not because of the institutionalised oppression of non-Muslims. It's because they also put Muslims in jail. That what makes them "not progressive". He still doesn't actually care about what they do to non-Muslims.

freediver wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2019 at 8:32pm:

I only gave you one example from Malaysia this time Gandalf. Of course, I had given you plenty from both Malaysia and Indonesia before, but you always managed to put your blinkers on and insist that each in turn was just one example. So why did you suddenly remove your blinkers in the case of Malaysia, but not for the other countries?

You said Indonesia was an oppressive Islamofascist shithole and cited the single incident of Ahok being jailed as your only evidence. You then spent the next 30 or so pages yelling and screaming that it wasn't the only evidence, all the while never actually producing anything else. It looks like you are up for another 30 pages of the same routine.

Meanwhile in the same discussion you made an even more idiotic assertion that muslims can say whatever they want. Incredibly, you tried to continue this claim even after I cited an article that described muslims literally being jailed for intimidating and threatening people online. You were equally dismissive of another case in which a muslim was arrested for calling on ahok supporters to be spat on. Somehow, in FD universe, neither of these cases were examples of muslims not being allowed to "say whatever they want".

So thats where we were at with the Indonesia discussion. Forgive me if I prefer not to resume that head-banging-on-wall exercise.

As for Malaysia, so far we are thankfully not yet discussing whether or not the entire country is an "oppressive shithole" based on this one case - as you were in the Ahok discussion. I volunteered that Malaysia is degenerating freedom-wise based on a whole host of evidence, not just this case. Malaysia and Indonesia are chalk and cheese democracy and freedom wise. Indonesia has quite a well-earned reputation as one of the most progressive and tolerant muslim nations. This shows up in your favourite PEW surveys, as well as their consistent and continual sidelining of Islamist parties in their democracy (unlike Malaysia). This reality held up in the last round of national and regional elections earlier this year - this despite the Ahok furore and the perception that Islamists were in the ascendancy. You and Yadda will obviously focus on non-events like a tiny village being told they have to celebrate christmas in the neighbouring village, as is your wont. While of course ignoring the important issues and trends like the makeup of Indonesia's parliament, and the people's fierce defence of their secular constitution whenever it is put under threat.

Quote:

You said Indonesia was an oppressive Islamofascist shithole and cited the single incident of Ahok being jailed as your only evidence.

I said that others had also been jailed for blasphemy, and we spent the rest of the thread going round in circles with you insisting I only gave one example, and me pointing out that others had also been jailed. For some reason I could never get that through to you. Not to mention all the other issues in Indonesia that have been discussed here over the years.

You have your blinkers firmly on Gandalf.

Am I right that the only reason you saw the light on Malaysia is because Muslims were the victims in this case?

So is Malaysia still cuddly and an example to us all?

freediver wrote on Dec 24^th, 2019 at 9:22am:

I said that others had also been jailed for blasphemy,

Yet you never actually cited a single example. Simply saying that its so is not providing evidence, and I pointed this out to you at the time - repeatedly. Who were they? What were the circumstances? And this came about 20 pages in. You are now saying that you argued all along your case was based on more than Ahok, yet at the time you were quite happily attempting the case that this one, high profile incident was sufficient to plunge the entire country into self-censorship over religion. As usual, your entire argument consisted of 3 parts: 1 - a single piece of 'evidence' maintained by a series of inane rhetorical questions 2. hysterical flailing over the mere suggestion that such evidence is insufficient and flawed 3. ad-hominem attacks. Its amazing how quickly you can reach 40 pages or so with that forumla.


freediver wrote on Dec 24^th, 2019 at 9:22am:

Am I right that the only reason you saw the light on Malaysia is because Muslims were the victims in this case?

And what do you actually mean by "see the light"? Declaring an entire country an oppressive shithole based on a single incident? You might not have noticed FD, but I haven't done that with Malaysia. Yes I believe it has regressed, but I certainly am not basing it solely on this one incident. It has been an undeniable trend over a couple of decades. As I said, Malaysia is not the same country it was 20 years ago. Oppressive sharia laws have only become a thing in the recent past. I 'see the light' there because I have far more knowledge of the place - I visit there every year, and I have family and friends there. I cannot make the same assessments about Indonesia because I frankly don't know much about the place. I've never been there, and I don't know anyone from there. I can only rely on the evidence I see. So no, I'm not going to jump to conclusions about it being an "oppressive shithole" based on a single incident.

Even apart from all that, it is clear even to someone who has no direct knowledge of Indonesia that it is far more progressive and 'free' than Malaysia. Again, this shows up in the PEW surveys. It shows up in the domination of secular parties and ideals in their democracy. There is no party like PAS (Malaysian Islamist party) that has the clout they have in Malaysia.

Quote:

Yet you never actually cited a single example.

Because you would have responded that it is just a single example, in your usual fashion. I did however provide a link to the wikipedia article on blasphemy in Indonesia, which has a list.


Quote:

And what do you actually mean by "see the light"?

The whole mea culpa thing. You have been trying to pass off Indonesia, Malaysia and Turkey as examples of progressive Muslim majority nations for years, creating elaborate excuses for the long list of human rights violations and creeping Islamofascism. Why did you suddenly see the light on Malaysia, but not the others? Is it only because Muslims were the victims this time?

freediver wrote on Dec 24^th, 2019 at 10:19am:

The whole mea culpa thing. You have been trying to pass off Indonesia, Malaysia and Turkey as examples of progressive Muslim majority nations for years, creating elaborate excuses for the long list of human rights violations and creeping Islamofascism. Why did you suddenly see the light on Malaysia, but not the others? Is it only because Muslims were the victims this time?

I just told you FD. Next time perhaps take more than 3 minutes responding to a well thought out post, so you don't make the same mistake of repeating a question I just answered. You couldn't possibly be able to read, digest and reply coherently to such a long post in such a short time. And clearly, you didn't.

Clearly your problem here is the blind assumption that Malaysia and Indonesia are exactly the same - that they are both obviously oppressive shitholes for not other reason than 'gah Islam'. I think I've been pretty clear on why this shouldn't be assumed.

freediver wrote on Dec 24^th, 2019 at 10:19am:

The whole mea culpa thing. You have been trying to pass off Indonesia, Malaysia and Turkey as examples of progressive Muslim majority nations for years, creating elaborate excuses for the long list of human rights violations and creeping Islamofascism.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/category/Malaysia


http://www.jihadwatch.org/category/Indonesia


http://www.jihadwatch.org/category/Turkey


http://www.jihadwatch.org/category/Pakistan




Every moslem, is a moslem !

Every moslem, is a follower, of ISLAM !



Where they are rampant [hold absolute political authority - and where they do not fear the opinion of the world community] there is no oppression or no lawlessness or no injustice the moslem will not stoop to,
so long as the 'recipient' of such injustice is seen to be a non-moslem.

We allow followers of ISLAM to create 'beach-heads' within our nations [as 'religious' communities], at our national peril.



.



Moslem = = a follower of ISLAM.



Checkout the 'Aussie' moslem children, being taught by their own parents,
how to practice ISLAM.   !!!!!!

-------- >

Yadda said....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1536141258/46#46

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1534830555/0#0

gandalf,

If you are correct.

If there is virtue in ISLAM, why can't you address my query within this thread.....



Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1552398731/0#0



gandalf,

Surely, if there is some virtue in ISLAM, you can point to at least one moslem majority nation in the world today, which promotes the virtue of ISLAM, and a nation of people, of which you are proud ?

A virtuous, prosperous, nation, full of ISLAMIC justice, which all of we infidels can see, and which we are unable to criticise.



.



Allah says that only moslems, are the righteous, the virtuous people.

So, where is the obvious, the undeniable,      ...exemplar moslem majority nation ?


"Ye [moslems] are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah. If only the People of the Book had faith, it were best for them: among them are some who have faith, but most of them are perverted transgressors."
Koran 3.110

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 24^th, 2019 at 10:24am:

freediver wrote on Dec 24th, 2019 at 10:19am: The whole mea culpa thing. You have been trying to pass off Indonesia, Malaysia and Turkey as examples of progressive Muslim majority nations for years, creating elaborate excuses for the long list of human rights violations and creeping Islamofascism. Why did you suddenly see the light on Malaysia, but not the others? Is it only because Muslims were the victims this time? I just told you FD. Next time perhaps take more than 3 minutes responding to a well thought out post, so you don't make the same mistake of repeating a question I just answered. You couldn't possibly be able to read, digest and reply coherently to such a long post in such a short time. And clearly, you didn't. Clearly your problem here is the blind assumption that Malaysia and Indonesia are exactly the same - that they are both obviously oppressive shitholes for not other reason than 'gah Islam'. I think I've been pretty clear on why this shouldn't be assumed.

They are each oppressive shitholes in their own unique way.

Why is the fact that you are intimately familiar with Malaysia and not Indonesia significant now when it wasn't previously when you used them both as examples of progressive Muslim countries?

And if Malaysia has been on this clear trend towards Islam for decades, and you get to see this every time you visit, why did you only just notice? This would imply that being familiar with the place is of no benefit to you in terms of being aware of what is actually going on. It was only very recently you were backpedaling on behalf of Malaysian Muslims on the results of that Pew survey of their opinions.

freediver wrote on Dec 24^th, 2019 at 2:01pm:

They are each oppressive shitholes in their own unique way.

You don't seriously believe that FD. Lets be honest here. The word "Islam" alone is enough in your book. You never see anything past that. *ALL* muslims support genocide FD, doesn't matter if they are Indonesian or Malaysian - we're all the same, remember?


freediver wrote on Dec 24^th, 2019 at 2:01pm:

Why is the fact that you are intimately familiar with Malaysia and not Indonesia significant now when it wasn't previously when you used them both as examples of progressive Muslim countries? And if Malaysia has been on this clear trend towards Islam for decades, and you get to see this every time you visit, why did you only just notice? This would imply that being familiar with the place is of no benefit to you in terms of being aware of what is actually going on. It was only very recently you were backpedaling on behalf of Malaysian Muslims on the results of that Pew survey of their opinions.

Lets not get carried away with this idea that gandalf has been holding on to the idea of 'progressive Malaysia' as an article of faith right up until yesterday FD. I probably referenced Malaysia as a 'progressive' Islamic country maybe once or twice, if at all, when I first joined this forum over 7 years ago. It was actually Brian pushing the idea far more rigorously. I'm pretty confident I haven't referenced in any way Malaysia as "progressive" in at least 6 years.

I suspect you are confusing my objections to your leaps of logic in relation to the PEW survey results as me insisting Malaysian society is "progressive" Islamically. Just like you hysterically label my calling out your bald faced lies about Afghanistan as me supporting the taliban.

Quote:

You don't seriously believe that FD. Lets be honest here. The word "Islam" alone is enough in your book. You never see anything past that. *ALL* muslims support genocide FD, doesn't matter if they are Indonesian or Malaysian - we're all the same, remember?

True but irrelevant. I never argues they are identical.


Quote:

Lets not get carried away with this idea that gandalf has been holding on to the idea of 'progressive Malaysia' as an article of faith right up until yesterday FD. I probably referenced Malaysia as a 'progressive' Islamic country maybe once or twice, if at all, when I first joined this forum over 7 years ago. It was actually Brian pushing the idea far more rigorously. I'm pretty confident I haven't referenced in any way Malaysia as "progressive" in at least 6 years.

So what made you change your mind?

freediver wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2020 at 2:34pm:

True but irrelevant. I never argues they are identical

You think all muslims are identical FD, that is whats relevant here. We've seen more than enough evidence for that - when you glibly label the entire global muslim population to a man woman and child as genocide supporters, when you take a quote from a single muslim  you consider incriminating and ascribe it to "muslims" en masse, when you come up with statements like "muslims are lazy" - clearly deliberately avoiding any qualfiers like "some" or "many" - etc etc.

Everything bad that happens in a muslim country is because of Islam, if anything good happens it is due to the absense of Islam. Thats your starting point. Any nuances that might come after that is secondary to your core argument that Islam is to blame for everything.


freediver wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2020 at 2:34pm:

So what made you change your mind?

I'm not sure I did. This portrayal of gandalf holding up Malaysia as a progressive  Islamic country has been greatly exaggerated. Like I said, if I said anything along those lines it was years ago and almost certainly heavilly qualified. But I frankly can't remember what I said. Feel free to dig up what I actually said and we can go from there.

Quote:

You think all muslims are identical FD

This is just another idiotic strawman you use to avoid addressing the real issues. If I thought they were identical, I would say they were identical. Each Muslim is a unique and special individual, deficient in their own particular way.

freediver wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2020 at 1:35pm:

Each Muslim is... deficient

Are you deliberately digging your own grave FD?

Perhaps you can give us an encore of your "all muslims support genocide" rendition to further strengthen your case.

It is an error of logic on your part.

For example, all Nazis support Nazism. This does not mean they are all identical. It just means they have something in common. Likewise, all Muslims support genocide. This does not mean they are identical.

And all muslims support Islam, which means submission to God. Thats why we call them "muslim" (simply means a 'doer' of Islam) believe it or not - the same reason we call believers of nazism "nazis". We don't however, in the same way, call someone 'muslim' as a by-word for supporting genocide. At least no reasonable person does. Your analogy couldn't be more absurd.

You are attempting to sanitise your own bigoted words by trying to pretend that labelling every muslim man woman and child a genocide supporter, and now "deficient" - is no different to saying they all hold some vaguely defined political view.

All muslims regard the qur'an as the perfect inerrant word of allah.

The qur'an causes and motivates terrorism, rape torture and mass murder in the name of allah.

If you support the cause, you by definition support the engendered terrorism, rape, torture and mass murder.

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2020 at 2:45pm:

And all muslims support Islam, which means submission to God. Thats why we call them "muslim" (simply means a 'doer' of Islam) believe it or not - the same reason we call believers of nazism "nazis". We don't however, in the same way, call someone 'muslim' as a by-word for supporting genocide. At least no reasonable person does. Your analogy couldn't be more absurd. You are attempting to sanitise your own bigoted words by trying to pretend that labelling every muslim man woman and child a genocide supporter, and now "deficient" - is no different to saying they all hold some vaguely defined political view.

I was trying to point out the error of logic behind your idiotic strawman that you keep using to avoid the real issues. Do you get it yet? Or do I need to keep explaining? I hope you understand that I am reluctant to simply move on assuming you understand, seeing as how you keep falling back on it.

freediver wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2020 at 6:58pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 3rd, 2020 at 2:45pm: And all muslims support Islam, which means submission to God. Thats why we call them "muslim" (simply means a 'doer' of Islam) believe it or not - the same reason we call believers of nazism "nazis". We don't however, in the same way, call someone 'muslim' as a by-word for supporting genocide. At least no reasonable person does. Your analogy couldn't be more absurd. You are attempting to sanitise your own bigoted words by trying to pretend that labelling every muslim man woman and child a genocide supporter, and now "deficient" - is no different to saying they all hold some vaguely defined political view. I was trying to point out the error of logic behind your idiotic strawman that you keep using to avoid the real issues. Do you get it yet? Or do I need to keep explaining? I hope you understand that I am reluctant to simply move on assuming you understand, seeing as how you keep falling back on it.

I guess I don't get it FD. Apparently it is not an issue for you that you smear the entire muslim population to a man woman and child as genocide supporters and now, every single individual as "deficient in their own particular way". It also doesn't seem to be an issue that you dismiss such blatant stereotyping as no different to ascribing political beliefs to individuals. Apparently the *real* issue here is you objecting to the use of the word "identical" when I merely point out that you literally say that every single muslim on earth are as one in supporting genocide.

And besides that, you portray muslims as a mindless collective at every opportunity. Like when you take a single quote of one individual and dishonestly ascribe it to "muslims" en masse.

Sorry if I keep insisting these, and not your idiotic semantic quibbling over words like 'identical', are the "real issues".

Quote:

Apparently the *real* issue here is you objecting to the use of the word "identical"

That's not the real issue. It is your idiotic strawman that you keep bringing up to avoid the real issue. Instead of addressing what I actually post, you make something up instead, such as that I think they are identical. Something you won't flounder with. You do this regularly.

I thought me accusing you of calling all muslims identical was the "idiotic strawman". Is it not?

Yes Gandalf. That's what I just said.

Re: the OP

as said previously, it's not that long ago that Christians were imprisoned and otherwise punished for failing to attend church

In living memory, Christians put men in prison and imprisoned and enslaved Australian couples for having sexual intercourse prior to marriage.  Their babies were sold by Christian priests and clergy and the couples were prevented from locating their biological child

Christians routinely murdered, raped, tortured children and the only punishment imposed on the rapists and killers was to be moved to another location in order they could continue their perversions and sadism

Western media routinely features photos and video of muslims being publicly whipped for their alleged transgressions

a bit of public whipping with rests in between seems far more mentally healthy than dragging a newborn out of some terrified teenager in order to sell or kill it after enslaving its young mother for profit for months and while the newborn's father is being bashed and raped in prison

One undisputed fact in the history of mankind is:

muslims who commit atrocities against the unbeliever, corrupter and hypocrites are directly obeying the teachings of muhammad.

Every single person who committed atrocities against their fellow man, is/was disobeying the words and teachings of Christ.

PZ547 wrote on Jan 4^th, 2020 at 1:24pm:

as said previously, it's not that long ago that Christians were imprisoned and otherwise punished for failing to attend church

Every monday morning Sister Grace, my yr 3 teacher  used to ask every student in the class if they went to mass the day before, if the answer was no, she'd pull your hair at the nape of your neck as punishment ..

as an 8 yr old i went where my parents told me. She should have pulled their hair if she had an issue with it,but that would require her to stand up to those the same size as her, something her faith wasn't strong enough for her to attempt.

and you couldn't bullshit her ......... she knew what the sermon was about and would quiz you .. say you were there and get her question on the sermon wrong and it was three yanks of the hair. :D

freediver wrote on Jan 4^th, 2020 at 12:28pm:

Yes Gandalf. That's what I just said.

No FD, you just said your problem over the word identical is "not the real issue":


freediver wrote on Jan 4^th, 2020 at 12:07pm:

Quote: Apparently the *real* issue here is you objecting to the use of the word "identical" That's not the real issue. It is your idiotic strawman

Correct. It's the idiotic strawman you keep bringing up to avoid the real issues.

Quote:

Every monday morning Sister Grace, my yr 3 teacher  used to ask every student in the class if they went to mass the day before, if the answer was no, she'd pull your hair at the nape of your neck as punishment .. as an 8 yr old i went where my parents told me. She should have pulled their hair if she had an issue with it,but that would require her to stand up to those the same size as her, something her faith wasn't strong enough for her to attempt. and you couldn't bullshit her ......... she knew what the sermon was about and would quiz you .. say you were there and get her question on the sermon wrong and it was three yanks of the hair.

Matthew 15:9  But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Mark 7:7  Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Matthew 7:21  Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 7:22  Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

Matthew 7:23  And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

I've got a feeling these verses pretty much describe the situation.

moses wrote on Jan 5^th, 2020 at 4:23pm:

Quote: Every monday morning Sister Grace, my yr 3 teacher  used to ask every student in the class if they went to mass the day before, if the answer was no, she'd pull your hair at the nape of your neck as punishment .. as an 8 yr old i went where my parents told me. She should have pulled their hair if she had an issue with it,but that would require her to stand up to those the same size as her, something her faith wasn't strong enough for her to attempt. and you couldn't bullshit her ......... she knew what the sermon was about and would quiz you .. say you were there and get her question on the sermon wrong and it was three yanks of the hair. Matthew 15:9  But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. Mark 7:7  Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. Matthew 7:21  Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Matthew 7:22  Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? Matthew 7:23  And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. I've got a feeling these verses pretty much describe the situation.

where's the verse 'do as I preach, not as I do'?

I don't think Christ said that did He?

moses wrote on Jan 5^th, 2020 at 4:28pm:

I don't think Christ said that did He?

that seems to be the gist of many of the representatives of Christ .. afterall, they claim to speak for him and  spread his word. Do you mean they don't believe the tripe they preach?

@ J.S.

Quote:

that seems to be the gist of many of the representatives of Christ .. afterall, they claim to speak for him and  spread his word. Do you mean they don't believe the tripe they preach?

They believe it.

But the truth is it's their thoughts and teachings, which are the antithesis of what Christ thought and taught.

There are verses which warn that this exact same thing will happen.

Men will produce their own commands as the doctrine.

There are also verses which quiet clearly state that they are not accepted by Christ.

So my argument that muslims who commit atrocities are obeying the teachings of muhammad, while men who commit atrocities are disobeying the teachings of Christ, still stands.

freediver wrote on Jan 4^th, 2020 at 7:31pm:

Correct. It's the idiotic strawman you keep bringing up to avoid the real issues.

Right so it is the "real issue" then. Thanks for clarifying you contradicted yourself.

But just so we're clear, do you think its unfair and an "idiotic strawman" that I use the word "identical" when I point out that you literally say that every single muslim on earth are as one in supporting genocide? You don't think the use of 'identical' is warranted in this context?

I mean you do understand that I'm not accusing you of saying that all muslims are literally identical biological clones right?

Or in other words, is it really overstepping the mark to use the word 'indentical' - in the sense that 'all muslims are "identical" in supporting genocide'? I mean you do flatly refuse to consider the possibility that there is a single muslim alive somewhere in the world who doesn't actually support genocide.

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 7^th, 2020 at 9:52am:

I mean you do flatly refuse to consider the possibility that there is a single muslim alive somewhere in the world who doesn't actually support genocide.

Problem is the Koran does. The other problem is most religions also support ‘holy’ wars.

moses wrote on Jan 5^th, 2020 at 4:28pm:

I don't think Christ said that did He?

Can we please put aside the delusion we know everything Christ said with any certainty? Those who wan’t to claim such knowledge, and regard same sex love as evil, should ask themselves why the New Testament carries no reference of Christ ever mentioning the subject.

Quote:

But just so we're clear, do you think its unfair and an "idiotic strawman" that I use the word "identical" when I point out that you literally say that every single muslim on earth are as one in supporting genocide?

It is incorrect, and an idiotic strawman.


Quote:

Or in other words, is it really overstepping the mark to use the word 'indentical' - in the sense that 'all muslims are "identical" in supporting genocide'?

They are also 'identical' in that they have two eyes and a nose. What is it with Muslims and changing the meaning of words constantly?


Quote:

I mean you do flatly refuse to consider the possibility that there is a single muslim alive somewhere in the world who doesn't actually support genocide.

This is also incorrect.

freediver wrote on Jan 7^th, 2020 at 10:58am:

Quote: I mean you do flatly refuse to consider the possibility that there is a single muslim alive somewhere in the world who doesn't actually support genocide. This is also incorrect.

Are you now saying your idiotic statement "all muslims support genocide", as well as the 50+ pages of refusing to back down on it, may have actually been false?

I suggested you give an example of a Muslim who does not support genocide. This implies the theoretical possibility that one exists.

You seriously don't get it do you FD?

Is the statement "all muslims support genocide" correct or not? It actually can't be both. If you really accept that there is a "theoretical possibility that one exists" then you de facto accept that the statement is BS. It would then become something like "I expect all muslims support genocide" or "as far as I know all muslims support genocide". Your statement leaves no room for it being otherwise. How can you not see this?

You are effectively saying that you can make such a statement and simultaneously insist that its correct as well as possibly wrong at the same time. Its just bonkers.

Quote:

Is the statement "all muslims support genocide" correct or not?

It seems that way, doesn't it? Though contrary to your misrepresentation, I have acknowledged the theoretical possibility that I am wrong right from the beginning, as well as how easy it would be for you to prove me wrong, if the evidence was there.

freediver wrote on Jan 7^th, 2020 at 1:47pm:

Though contrary to your misrepresentation, I have acknowledged the theoretical possibility that I am wrong right from the beginning

Yet you still made the statement. That is simply illogical.

It is not misrepresentation to say that you think its somehow tenable to simultaneously state something as fact, while saying it could be wrong at the same time. Because thats precisely what you are doing.

If you really did think it might be wrong all along, then the statement is BS from the outset FD. Its as simple as that. You don't state something as fact that you already think might be wrong. How more bonkers can you get??

This source tells us

Quote:

Fight/ Kill/ Murder:-        In the English language, Fight can mean to : Combat, Struggle, Resist, Strife, War, do battle. In the Arabic language, one word QATL with its DERIVATIVES can mean all of the following: Fight: Qital, Kifah, 'Airak, Harb, etc Kill: Qatl, Thabh, Jazr Murder: Qatl Slaughter: Thabh, Jazr Slay: Qatl KILL, MURDER, FIGHT, COMBAT, SLAY, PUT TO DEATH, SLAUGHTER, ETC. Invariably, the interpreters of the Quran use the more 'sanitised' terms to convey a more moderate connotation. This word Qital, Qatl, Qatala, Yaqtulu, Youqatilou,  is usually used against all those who do not believe in Muhammad and his Quran. This word and its derivatives are repeated in the Quran and Ahadith at least 35,213 times.

You see KILL, MURDER, FIGHT, COMBAT, SLAY, PUT TO DEATH, SLAUGHTER, ETC. are taught 35,213 times in the holy books.

then this site tells us

Quote:

164 Jihad Verses in the Koran The Koran’s 164 Jihad Verses: K 002:178-179, 190-191, 193-194, 216-218, 244; 003:121-126, 140-143, 146, 152-158, 165-167,169, 172-173, 195; 004:071-072, 074-077, 084, 089-091, 094-095,100-104; 005:033, 035, 082; 008:001, 005, 007, 009-010, 012, 015-017, 039-048,057-060, 065-075; 009:005, 012-014, 016, 019-020, 024-026, 029,036, 038-039, 041, 044, 052, 073, 081, 083,086, 088, 092, 111, 120, 122-123; 016:110; 022:039, 058, 078; 024:053, 055; 025:052; 029:006, 069; 033:015, 018, 020, 023, 025-027, 050; 042:039; 047:004, 020, 035; 048:015-024; 049:015; 059:002, 005-008, 014; 060:009; 061:004, 011, 013; 063:004; 064:014; 066:009; 073:020; 076:008

164 verses of jihad in the quran plus the words KILL, MURDER, FIGHT, COMBAT, SLAY, PUT TO DEATH, SLAUGHTER, ETC. are taught 35,213 times in the holy books.


Now let's be fair how many time is the word love used in the qur'an?

well this site tells us


Quote:

The word love, hubb in its various grammatical forms, is used 69 times in the Qur'an. The writer has divided these into five categories: (1) Man's Love of Things (15 times) (2) Human Love (15 Times) (3) Man's Love for God (7 times) (4) Negative - God Does Not Love The ... (22 times) (5) God's love for Man (20 times)

A mere 79 times love is mentioned and some of this teaches that allah does not love certain people.

So we have over 35,000 times the muslims are told to slaughter etc., 164 verses of jihad and 79 verses where the word love is used, sometime it is actually used to tell muslims allah does not love something.

Now these instructions are considered inerrant by every single muslim alive, jihadi muzzies use them as justification to commit atrocities against their fellow man.

The qur'an causes human rights atrocities (genocide), by definition if you support the cause of genocide you therefore support the genocide engendered.

All muslims support each and every atrocity caused and motivated by the infallible qur'an.

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 7^th, 2020 at 2:22pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 7th, 2020 at 1:47pm: Though contrary to your misrepresentation, I have acknowledged the theoretical possibility that I am wrong right from the beginning Yet you still made the statement. That is simply illogical. It is not misrepresentation to say that you think its somehow tenable to simultaneously state something as fact, while saying it could be wrong at the same time. Because thats precisely what you are doing. If you really did think it might be wrong all along, then the statement is BS from the outset FD. Its as simple as that. You don't state something as fact that you already think might be wrong. How more bonkers can you get??

So you would never acknowledge the possibility that you are wrong?

freediver wrote on Jan 7^th, 2020 at 3:28pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 7th, 2020 at 2:22pm: freediver wrote on Jan 7th, 2020 at 1:47pm: Though contrary to your misrepresentation, I have acknowledged the theoretical possibility that I am wrong right from the beginning Yet you still made the statement. That is simply illogical. It is not misrepresentation to say that you think its somehow tenable to simultaneously state something as fact, while saying it could be wrong at the same time. Because thats precisely what you are doing. If you really did think it might be wrong all along, then the statement is BS from the outset FD. Its as simple as that. You don't state something as fact that you already think might be wrong. How more bonkers can you get?? So you would never acknowledge the possibility that you are wrong?

All the time. And as soon as I do, I immediately stop stating as fact the thing I acknowledge might be wrong. You bizarrely seem to think you can simultaneously keep stating as fact something you acknowledge could be wrong. How does this make sense to you?

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 7^th, 2020 at 2:22pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 7th, 2020 at 1:47pm: Though contrary to your misrepresentation, I have acknowledged the theoretical possibility that I am wrong right from the beginning Yet you still made the statement. That is simply illogical. It is not misrepresentation to say that you think its somehow tenable to simultaneously state something as fact, while saying it could be wrong at the same time. Because thats precisely what you are doing. If you really did think it might be wrong all along, then the statement is BS from the outset FD. Its as simple as that. You don't state something as fact that you already think might be wrong.

Oh? What else would a porkie be?

Do you want to ask him, or should I?

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 24^th, 2020 at 2:39pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 7th, 2020 at 3:28pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 7th, 2020 at 2:22pm: freediver wrote on Jan 7th, 2020 at 1:47pm: Though contrary to your misrepresentation, I have acknowledged the theoretical possibility that I am wrong right from the beginning Yet you still made the statement. That is simply illogical. It is not misrepresentation to say that you think its somehow tenable to simultaneously state something as fact, while saying it could be wrong at the same time. Because thats precisely what you are doing. If you really did think it might be wrong all along, then the statement is BS from the outset FD. Its as simple as that. You don't state something as fact that you already think might be wrong. How more bonkers can you get?? So you would never acknowledge the possibility that you are wrong? All the time. And as soon as I do, I immediately stop stating as fact the thing I acknowledge might be wrong. You bizarrely seem to think you can simultaneously keep stating as fact something you acknowledge could be wrong. How does this make sense to you?

You'll have to explain this "stating as fact" thing. You are the only here here who claims to be able to make the distinction.

freediver wrote on Jan 24^th, 2020 at 7:12pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 24th, 2020 at 2:39pm: freediver wrote on Jan 7th, 2020 at 3:28pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 7th, 2020 at 2:22pm: freediver wrote on Jan 7th, 2020 at 1:47pm: Though contrary to your misrepresentation, I have acknowledged the theoretical possibility that I am wrong right from the beginning Yet you still made the statement. That is simply illogical. It is not misrepresentation to say that you think its somehow tenable to simultaneously state something as fact, while saying it could be wrong at the same time. Because thats precisely what you are doing. If you really did think it might be wrong all along, then the statement is BS from the outset FD. Its as simple as that. You don't state something as fact that you already think might be wrong. How more bonkers can you get?? So you would never acknowledge the possibility that you are wrong? All the time. And as soon as I do, I immediately stop stating as fact the thing I acknowledge might be wrong. You bizarrely seem to think you can simultaneously keep stating as fact something you acknowledge could be wrong. How does this make sense to you? You'll have to explain this "stating as fact" thing. You are the only here here who claims to be able to make the distinction.

I agree, G. If you could explain what FD means by "stating as fact", it would be great.

I think he means telling an awful porkie, but that's just me.

Still, FD's keen to learn, I do believe he wants to better himself.

You?

freediver wrote on Jan 24^th, 2020 at 7:12pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 24th, 2020 at 2:39pm: freediver wrote on Jan 7th, 2020 at 3:28pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 7th, 2020 at 2:22pm: freediver wrote on Jan 7th, 2020 at 1:47pm: Though contrary to your misrepresentation, I have acknowledged the theoretical possibility that I am wrong right from the beginning Yet you still made the statement. That is simply illogical. It is not misrepresentation to say that you think its somehow tenable to simultaneously state something as fact, while saying it could be wrong at the same time. Because thats precisely what you are doing. If you really did think it might be wrong all along, then the statement is BS from the outset FD. Its as simple as that. You don't state something as fact that you already think might be wrong. How more bonkers can you get?? So you would never acknowledge the possibility that you are wrong? All the time. And as soon as I do, I immediately stop stating as fact the thing I acknowledge might be wrong. You bizarrely seem to think you can simultaneously keep stating as fact something you acknowledge could be wrong. How does this make sense to you? You'll have to explain this "stating as fact" thing. You are the only here here who claims to be able to make the distinction.

Oh you've forgotton the thread title we've been discussing have you FD?

Here, I'll quote it for you:


Quote:

all muslims support genocide

- by FD.

please do explain to me how this is not 'stating as fact' that all muslims support genocide. This should be good. Did you mean to pose it as a question, but you forgot to put the question mark? Did you forget to insert the words "I think" at the beginning - and/or "but I could be wrong" at the end?

All this might be plausible - if not for the pages and pages you spent standing by your statement.

I don't even know what "stating as fact" means. Hence my request that you explain it.

Are you suggesting that every time there is a theoretical possibility you are wrong, you put a caveat on what you say so as not to "state it as fact"?

muslims jailed for skipping prayers.

That's the only possible way islam can survive.

Questioning and thinking for themselves had been has been banned from day one.

The muzzies whip themselves into a frantic mob of blood crazed ghouls every time some one queries the evil in the qur'an / muhammads' deeds / doctrine of islam.

Everyone toes the line under the pain of death.

The moment muzlims are allowed to be honest and question the filth in islam, that's the very moment islam will die.

freediver wrote on Jan 25^th, 2020 at 8:18am:

I don't even know what "stating as fact" means. Hence my request that you explain it.

This is quite possibly FD's 'me no speaka da English' at its most idiotic level.

You are not stupid FD. The statement "all muslims support genocide" is 'stating as fact', as you are well aware. You would have to either be in an institution or under 3 years old to not understand this.


Quote:

Are you suggesting that every time there is a theoretical possibility you are wrong, you put a caveat on what you say so as not to "state it as fact"?

Yes FD, you do. Again, you are not too stupid to understand this. How embarassing that you are reduced to pretending that you are just to avoid conceding you are wrong.

Quote:

You are not stupid FD. The statement "all muslims support genocide" is 'stating as fact', as you are well aware.

I am well aware that you keep saying this, but to me it looks no different to any other statement I make.


Quote:

Yes FD, you do. Again, you are not too stupid to understand this. How embarassing that you are reduced to pretending that you are just to avoid conceding you are wrong.

So when you say that you acknowledge the theoretical possibility that you are wrong, this only applies to those statements you issue with a caveat that there is a theoretical possibility that you are wrong? And for everything else, you think it is impossible for you to be wrong?

Every single day of the year some body some where will be raped, tortured or killed, by a muslim who absolutely believes that he/she is doing the divine work of allah. (they are the honest muslims, the qur'an motivates and supports their atrocities, they are dumb evil people following the doctrine of a death cult)

There will be *moderates* who will lie snivel and sneak trying to excuse the filth  in the qur'an, these *moderates* will have the undivided loyalty of our useful idiots, who are committed to destroying us from within by any means possible.

Now who is the worst of these three?

1/. The islamists who have no conscience and who actually enjoys their life of raping torturing and murdering, 

2/. the *moderates* who know the islamists are following the qur'an, but will not decry the *holy book* as this will destroy islam, 

3/. the sick perverted apologists who also know the islamists are the faithful true believers, but will never condemn islam as they hate the west and will do anything to destroy it.

For mine they are all equally as bad as each other.

The world faces the greatest threat to civilization it has ever confronted, the muslim lunatic left, duo of evil, are the millstone around the neck of civilization, how long before we start being honest, call a spade a spade and end the evil muslim-leftard alliances' reign of terror?
 

freediver wrote on Jan 26^th, 2020 at 1:29pm:

I am well aware that you keep saying this, but to me it looks no different to any other statement I make.

Good God.

Here's a little exercise FD - try coming up with a definition of "stating as fact" in which the claim "all muslims support genocide" cannot be used as an example. Try and come up with an example that you think does fit the bill, and attempt to explain why that fits but "all muslims support genocide" doesn't.



freediver wrote on Jan 26^th, 2020 at 1:29pm:

So when you say that you acknowledge the theoretical possibility that you are wrong, this only applies to those statements you issue with a caveat that there is a theoretical possibility that you are wrong?

umm.. yes FD. How could it be anything else?

Again, you are not having difficulty with this. It simply isn't possible. You are deliberately pretending you are stupid in order to avoid conceding a point. How embarassing.

Sorry, I'm curious. FD's been saying all Muslims support genocide for the past two years. He's been flipping and flopping and wriggling and writhing and waltzing and tap dancing the entire time.

When did he finally come around?

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 27^th, 2020 at 12:19pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 26th, 2020 at 1:29pm: I am well aware that you keep saying this, but to me it looks no different to any other statement I make. Good God. Here's a little exercise FD - try coming up with a definition of "stating as fact" in which the claim "all muslims support genocide" cannot be used as an example. Try and come up with an example that you think does fit the bill, and attempt to explain why that fits but "all muslims support genocide" doesn't. freediver wrote on Jan 26th, 2020 at 1:29pm: So when you say that you acknowledge the theoretical possibility that you are wrong, this only applies to those statements you issue with a caveat that there is a theoretical possibility that you are wrong? umm.. yes FD. How could it be anything else? Again, you are not having difficulty with this. It simply isn't possible. You are deliberately pretending you are stupid in order to avoid conceding a point. How embarassing.

Like I keep telling you Gandalf, it is meaningless gibberish. I only ask what you mean by it.

freediver wrote on Jan 28^th, 2020 at 7:25pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 27th, 2020 at 12:19pm: freediver wrote on Jan 26th, 2020 at 1:29pm: I am well aware that you keep saying this, but to me it looks no different to any other statement I make. Good God. Here's a little exercise FD - try coming up with a definition of "stating as fact" in which the claim "all muslims support genocide" cannot be used as an example. Try and come up with an example that you think does fit the bill, and attempt to explain why that fits but "all muslims support genocide" doesn't. freediver wrote on Jan 26th, 2020 at 1:29pm: So when you say that you acknowledge the theoretical possibility that you are wrong, this only applies to those statements you issue with a caveat that there is a theoretical possibility that you are wrong? umm.. yes FD. How could it be anything else? Again, you are not having difficulty with this. It simply isn't possible. You are deliberately pretending you are stupid in order to avoid conceding a point. How embarassing. Like I keep telling you Gandalf, it is meaningless gibberish. I only ask what you mean by it.

FD can you give us your definition of 'stating as fact' and explain to us why the statement "all muslims support genocide" doesn't fit?

Then can you give us an example of a statement that does fit?

Are there any situations you can envisage in which uttering "all muslims support genocide" could be stating as fact that all muslims support genocide?

Sure. Let me dumb it down for you even more:

Stating as fact = meaningless gibberish

Now, what do you mean when you use the term?

what do I mean when I say something is stated as fact?

Gosh FD, can you take a wild stab? I literally can't dumb it down any more than repeating the same words - to "state something as fact". Are you keeping up? Is it still too 'gibberish' for you?

How about we dumb it down even more, and answer the actual question shall we?

How is saying "all muslims support genocide" not stating something as fact? Again, take your time.

As far as I can tell, it means you think you are infallible, and unless others  share you self-delusion, you insist they should not say anything.

freediver wrote on Jan 29^th, 2020 at 9:48pm:

As far as I can tell, it means you think you are infallible, and unless others  share you self-delusion, you insist they should not say anything.

Ah. Muslim censorship again. He's got you there, G.

When you point out an FD porkie, that's censorship, so unfair.

No one has the right to not be offended, no?

freediver wrote on Jan 29^th, 2020 at 9:48pm:

As far as I can tell, it means you think you are infallible, and unless others  share you self-delusion, you insist they should not say anything.

Not say anything eh?

I only said about a thousand times there were many different ways you could have expressed your claim that would have been perfectly legitimate. The exact examples I suggested (repeatedly) I believe were "It makes sense that all muslims support genocide" and "Its logical that all muslims support genocide". You could also use "Its possible that all muslims support genocide.  Notice how none of these, unlike your statement, is stating as fact that every single muslim on earth do in fact support genocide.

Do you still need help in deciphering what "stating something as fact" means? Or is common bloody sense back from the pub by now?

Indonesia: Multiple arrests of couples on Valentine’s Day, “These social illnesses must be prevented”
FEB 14, 2020

“Allah did not create man so that he could have fun. The aim of creation was for mankind to be put to the test through hardship and prayer. An Islamic regime must be serious in every field. There are no jokes in Islam. There is no humor in Islam. There is no fun in Islam. There can be no fun and joy in whatever is serious.” — Ayatollah Khomeini

Makassar’s acting mayor Muhammad Iqbal Samad Suhae insisted the measures were necessary to prevent his city from being paralysed by rampant sex and drug use.

‘Festivities like Valentine’s Day usually attract youth,’ he added.

‘That’s when they are out of control and doing things which violate our norms and traditions, like consuming drugs and engaging in free sex.

‘We want to prevent that here.’…

Remember islam was formulated by muhammad, who had to sit down to pee or wet himself, his dick dribbled, Aisha records that she had to remove the stains from his robes, well life probably was not much fun for him so why should other people lead a normal life?

The thing is that today 2020 muslims simply will not wake up and tell the truth about islam.

Consequently they are a drag on humanity with their backwardness and degeneracy.

muslims must have huge intellectual problems if they can't see how malevolent islam is.

That in it'self is a major concern for the rest of us, but add to that the fact that there many *moderate* muslims and lunatic leftard apologists who do know about the depravity in the qur'an, but they simply prefer the daily degenerate human rights atrocities being committed by muslims around the globe, over honestly trying to purge the evil in their doctrine and stopping these atrocities.

The reason they won't try is, because they know such honest actions would also destroy islam.

So we are stuck with backwardness terrorism rape torture and mass murder, until we can get the *moderates* and loony leftards to stop lying and tell the truth about islam.

This is the only real answer and must be pursued relentlessly to bring some safety and sanity into civilization.

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 29^th, 2020 at 10:46pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 29th, 2020 at 9:48pm: As far as I can tell, it means you think you are infallible, and unless others  share you self-delusion, you insist they should not say anything. Not say anything eh? I only said about a thousand times there were many different ways you could have expressed your claim that would have been perfectly legitimate. The exact examples I suggested (repeatedly) I believe were "It makes sense that all muslims support genocide" and "Its logical that all muslims support genocide". You could also use "Its possible that all muslims support genocide.  Notice how none of these, unlike your statement, is stating as fact that every single muslim on earth do in fact support genocide. Do you still need help in deciphering what "stating something as fact" means? Or is common bloody sense back from the pub by now?

I think it is a rule you just invented, without realising at the time that you need a sense of infallibility to justify it.

G's gone. FD. Why have you gone all quiet on Muslim slavery?

Hi FD, I guess its been a while, you might have forgotton the basic point we were discussing. So I'll repeat it:

How is saying "all muslims support genocide" not stating something as fact?

No need to flail around with nonsense about imaginary infallibility complexes. Its a simple concept that you somehow haven't been able to fathom from the beginning - that saying "all muslims support genocide" is somehow not stating something as fact. That is your fundamental position in this sorry discussion. Why is this? How do you distinguish this claim from semantically identical 'no-brainer' statements like "Athens is a city in Greece"? Surely that can be passed as stating something as fact no? But somehow not "all muslims support genocide". Try for once explaining this FD. Go on, have a go. I'm genuinely interested how you rationalise this FD.

Quote:

How is saying "all muslims support genocide" not stating something as fact?

It is stating something. "Stating something as fact" is a term you just made up. So whether it is "stating something as fact" is basically a tautological issue.

so it is not a fact that all muslims support genocide then FD?

Are you saying I invented the word 'fact'?

Would you have a problem with the notion that saying "Athens is a city in Greece" is 'stating something as fact'? As opposed to say "Athens is probably in Greece"?

Here is what I said Gandalf:

"Stating something as fact" is a term you just made up.