..and the planet accountants all know it, they just pretend they don't!  ;D

TheFunPolice wrote on Feb 8^th, 2018 at 9:51pm:

..and the planet accountants all know it, they just pretend they don't!  ;D

They need another evolution in technology there are both serious technical and economic issues that need to be resolved.

I put it to the forum that vic is a planet accountant!

RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 9^th, 2018 at 7:37am:

TheFunPolice wrote on Feb 8th, 2018 at 9:51pm: ..and the planet accountants all know it, they just pretend they don't!  ;D They need another evolution in technology there are both serious technical and economic issues that need to be resolved.

Such as?

TheFunPolice wrote on Feb 10^th, 2018 at 4:28pm:

RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 9th, 2018 at 7:37am: TheFunPolice wrote on Feb 8th, 2018 at 9:51pm: ..and the planet accountants all know it, they just pretend they don't!  ;D They need another evolution in technology there are both serious technical and economic issues that need to be resolved. Such as?

Price to start with ... Teslas cost 100-200k yet this leads to them making a loss ...... not economically sustainable. They claim 400KM out of a recharge which I assume is feathering the accelerator .... then an hour to rapid recharge (if there is one near where you run out) .... based on that most petrol cars would beat it to Sydney to QLD as it would require 2-3 recharges wasting 3 hrs !

Not against them they just need more work. The Chinese are on to it so maybe in a decade or two they will be practical.

RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 8:31am:

TheFunPolice wrote on Feb 10th, 2018 at 4:28pm: RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 9th, 2018 at 7:37am: TheFunPolice wrote on Feb 8th, 2018 at 9:51pm: ..and the planet accountants all know it, they just pretend they don't!  ;D They need another evolution in technology there are both serious technical and economic issues that need to be resolved. Such as? Price to start with ... Teslas cost 100-200k yet this leads to them making a loss ...... not economically sustainable. They claim 400KM out of a recharge which I assume is feathering the accelerator .... then an hour to rapid recharge (if there is one near where you run out) .... based on that most petrol cars would beat it to Sydney to QLD as it would require 2-3 recharges wasting 3 hrs ! Not against them they just need more work. The Chinese are on to it so maybe in a decade or two they will be practical.

Hey, maybe they should make you a consultant because you obviously know your stuff bruther  ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)  ;D

RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 8:31am:

TheFunPolice wrote on Feb 10th, 2018 at 4:28pm: RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 9th, 2018 at 7:37am: TheFunPolice wrote on Feb 8th, 2018 at 9:51pm: ..and the planet accountants all know it, they just pretend they don't!  ;D They need another evolution in technology there are both serious technical and economic issues that need to be resolved. Such as? Price to start with ... Teslas cost 100-200k yet this leads to them making a loss ...... not economically sustainable. They claim 400KM out of a recharge which I assume is feathering the accelerator .... then an hour to rapid recharge (if there is one near where you run out) .... based on that most petrol cars would beat it to Sydney to QLD as it would require 2-3 recharges wasting 3 hrs ! Not against them they just need more work. The Chinese are on to it so maybe in a decade or two they will be practical.

Where do you get this figure of 100-200k?

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 2:12pm:

Where do you get this figure of 100-200k?

Based on Tesla S 75D $112,500 to P100D $196,200. I assume.
https://www.tesla.com/en_AU/models/design

lee wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 2:24pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 13th, 2018 at 2:12pm: Where do you get this figure of 100-200k? Based on Tesla S 75D $112,500 to P100D $196,200. I assume. https://www.tesla.com/en_AU/models/design

My apologies, I meant more the loss part.

RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 9^th, 2018 at 7:37am:

TheFunPolice wrote on Feb 8th, 2018 at 9:51pm: ..and the planet accountants all know it, they just pretend they don't!  ;D They need another evolution in technology there are both serious technical and economic issues that need to be resolved.

Yes, I remember a teacher in the early 70's building one,  the motors have not changed much and the batteries have improved a bit, they are here to stay but they will only have limited use until battery weight can come down significantly, they have tried all the metals minerals and chemicals known and for some reason the weight always only decreases marginally.

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 2:12pm:

RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 13th, 2018 at 8:31am: TheFunPolice wrote on Feb 10th, 2018 at 4:28pm: RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 9th, 2018 at 7:37am: TheFunPolice wrote on Feb 8th, 2018 at 9:51pm: ..and the planet accountants all know it, they just pretend they don't!  ;D They need another evolution in technology there are both serious technical and economic issues that need to be resolved. Such as? Price to start with ... Teslas cost 100-200k yet this leads to them making a loss ...... not economically sustainable. They claim 400KM out of a recharge which I assume is feathering the accelerator .... then an hour to rapid recharge (if there is one near where you run out) .... based on that most petrol cars would beat it to Sydney to QLD as it would require 2-3 recharges wasting 3 hrs ! Not against them they just need more work. The Chinese are on to it so maybe in a decade or two they will be practical. Where do you get this figure of 100-200k?

https://www.drive.com.au/new-car-details/tesla/model-s/75d-sportback-sedan-5dr-reduction-gear-1sp-awd-ac193kw/2000275?trackLink=newCarResults1

Not up to speed with google ?

And yes they are making a loss at these numbers !
There are a few Chinese companies on to it so they will both get the price and practicality working ...... one has already built one that blows the doors off Teslas but as I said it will need time !

electric cars are almost done and dusted...

try and find a 2018 fully electric car in australia this year..


President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Feb 8^th, 2018 at 8:39pm:

Quote: Tesla staggering $1 billion loss in just three months  :o ELECTRIC car company Tesla has posted a staggering quarterly loss that amounts to nearly A$1 billion. The US$780 million quarterly loss (A$997 million) is in the wake of the huge production problems that have slowed the flow of its blockbuster car to a trickle. The quarterly loss gives Tesla an annual loss of US$2.2 billion and mounting debt.  :o Confessing the debt to the markets on Thursday morning Australian time, Tesla admitted it has been “overconfident” and “complacent”. Tesla has been losing an incredible amount of money recently. Production issues have caused Tesla to fall well behind schedule on its Model 3 car, which is intended to be a mass-market offering. The company aimed to make 5000 cars a week by the end of 2017 but could only manage to deliver a few thousand in total during the year. It is now working to rectify its mistakes by importing new production equipment from Germany to replace the problematic equipment at its battery factory. The problems can be traced back to a rapid set of timelines that saw Tesla rush to achieve high levels of production. Musk admitted on Thursday he had been too ambitious in the past. “We were probably a little overconfident, we were complacent,” he said, admitting that fixing all the mistakes had caused “a lot of pain”. “Pain level is extremely high. I was in the gigafactory on Thanksgiving day,” he said. Tesla’s delays put the company in an uncomfortable situation. The company borrowed a lot of money to build itself up, and it needs to sell lots of cars to pay the money back. Each delay costs more money while deferring the money-making phase. That can’t go on forever. Tesla has US$9.5 billion worth of long-term debt and capital leases on its books, and an interest bill on its debt of nearly half a billon dollars a year. Even if it doesn’t borrow more, that bill could be set to rise as US interest rates go up. On Thursday, however, Tesla CEO Musk was seeing the bright side. He willingly admitted his enormous automated battery factory — the “alien dreadnought” gigafactory — was failing to operate properly. Two of four zones “flat out didn’t work”, he said. But he was finding solace in an unexpected place – by seeing that humans could actually operate better than robots. “We have a semi-automatic line which is a series of small automated stations manned by people. And they have actually been remarkably effective,” he said. “It has renewed my faith in humanity.” The man who wanted to banish most humans from the production facility altogether is instead finding them very useful and highly capable. “The rapid evolution of progress and the ability of people to adapt rapidly is quite remarkable. Our semi-automatic line is exceeding all three of the automatic lines.” Still, Mr Musk didn’t want to give the impression that the batteries were being made like custom furniture or wood-fired pizzas. “It is not artisanal!” he joked. Musk, who has been regularly blowing away competitors in the space industry with his company SpaceX, yesterday landed two rocket boosters back on earth after a launch of the Falcon Heavy rocket. SpaceX launches the Falcon Heavy rocket Aboard that rocket was Musk’s Tesla Roadster, the first car Tesla ever made. Musk uses that as inspiration for overcoming the issues in making Tesla’s mass production car, the Model 3. “If we can send a roadster to the asteroid belt we can probably solve Model 3 production. It’s just a matter of time,” Musk said. IT’S OF THE ESSENCE Time, though, is the one thing Mr Musk has shown he can’t control. Deadlines appear to be his kryptonite. Unfortunately he can’t stop setting them for himself. On Thursday, he promised or indicated Tesla would do each of the following. • Fix self-driving capacity so that customers can drive autonomously “coast-to-coast” across America within three to six months. • Make 5000 model 3 cars a week within five months. • Announce a new SUV – the model Y – in six months time. • Become profitable this year, according to generally accepted accounting principles (Elon admitted this one was optimistic and he was not certain about it.). • Make a million cars a year by 2020 • Make 100,000 electric semi-trailer trucks a year within four years. • To turn Tesla around while also achieving all of these in the timelines Musk expects, Tesla employees will need to put in one of the greatest bursts of productivity in business history. Let’s hope Mr Musk’s faith in humanity is justified. maybe they need a new CEO..

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1518086347

The Mechanic

Yes its cart before the horse business model, they are trying to commercialise a car that has failed very basic proof of concept and are running into all sorts of issues these electric car worshipping zombies don't get.
The basic concept is there they just need to address the many elephants in the room one is cost.

There are some interesting reports out there that look at what you posted in more detail plus many other issues. Apparently the build quality on them is rubbish !

Electric will be the vehicle of the future just at least a decade or 2 of sorting out the numerous issues  and not sure it will be Tesla

RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 6:55pm:

The Mechanic Yes its cart before the horse business model, they are trying to commercialise a car that has failed very basic proof of concept and are running into all sorts of issues these electric car worshipping zombies don't get. The basic concept is there they just need to address the many elephants in the room one is cost. There are some interesting reports out there that look at what you posted in more detail plus many other issues. Apparently the build quality on them is rubbish ! Electric will be the vehicle of the future just at least a decade or 2 of sorting out the numerous issues  and not sure it will be Tesla

as with most of these green concepts...

they can't stand on their own..... mostly... but in time they will...

there's no need to SHOVE them down everyones throat...

RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 8:31am:

TheFunPolice wrote on Feb 10th, 2018 at 4:28pm: RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 9th, 2018 at 7:37am: TheFunPolice wrote on Feb 8th, 2018 at 9:51pm: ..and the planet accountants all know it, they just pretend they don't!  ;D They need another evolution in technology there are both serious technical and economic issues that need to be resolved. Such as? Price to start with ... Teslas cost 100-200k yet this leads to them making a loss ...... not economically sustainable. They claim 400KM out of a recharge which I assume is feathering the accelerator .... then an hour to rapid recharge (if there is one near where you run out) .... based on that most petrol cars would beat it to Sydney to QLD as it would require 2-3 recharges wasting 3 hrs ! Not against them they just need more work. The Chinese are on to it so maybe in a decade or two they will be practical.

yes, and other car manufacturers make them a lot cheaper

President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 7:01pm:

RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 13th, 2018 at 6:55pm: The Mechanic Yes its cart before the horse business model, they are trying to commercialise a car that has failed very basic proof of concept and are running into all sorts of issues these electric car worshipping zombies don't get. The basic concept is there they just need to address the many elephants in the room one is cost. There are some interesting reports out there that look at what you posted in more detail plus many other issues. Apparently the build quality on them is rubbish ! Electric will be the vehicle of the future just at least a decade or 2 of sorting out the numerous issues  and not sure it will be Tesla as with most of these green concepts... they can't stand on their own..... mostly... but in time they will... there's no need to SHOVE them down everyones throat...

Very little two stroke deisel engines are used in model RC planes and helicopters these days. They have all been replaced with electric drive trains and Lithium battery technology. It won't belong before this reaches mainstream and the ubiquitous car ;)

See the power you can get from just two small electric powered toy helicopters !!

Smell the power and smell the fear :D LOL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77uK19KxMuI

RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 6:39pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 13th, 2018 at 2:12pm: RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 13th, 2018 at 8:31am: TheFunPolice wrote on Feb 10th, 2018 at 4:28pm: RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 9th, 2018 at 7:37am: TheFunPolice wrote on Feb 8th, 2018 at 9:51pm: ..and the planet accountants all know it, they just pretend they don't!  ;D They need another evolution in technology there are both serious technical and economic issues that need to be resolved. Such as? Price to start with ... Teslas cost 100-200k yet this leads to them making a loss ...... not economically sustainable. They claim 400KM out of a recharge which I assume is feathering the accelerator .... then an hour to rapid recharge (if there is one near where you run out) .... based on that most petrol cars would beat it to Sydney to QLD as it would require 2-3 recharges wasting 3 hrs ! Not against them they just need more work. The Chinese are on to it so maybe in a decade or two they will be practical. Where do you get this figure of 100-200k? https://www.drive.com.au/new-car-details/tesla/model-s/75d-sportback-sedan-5dr-reduction-gear-1sp-awd-ac193kw/2000275?trackLink=newCarResults1 Not up to speed with google ? And yes they are making a loss at these numbers ! There are a few Chinese companies on to it so they will both get the price and practicality working ...... one has already built one that blows the doors off Teslas but as I said it will need time !

Where in that link does it say selling at a loss.

Sir lastnail wrote on Feb 14^th, 2018 at 10:01am:

President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Feb 13th, 2018 at 7:01pm: RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 13th, 2018 at 6:55pm: The Mechanic Yes its cart before the horse business model, they are trying to commercialise a car that has failed very basic proof of concept and are running into all sorts of issues these electric car worshipping zombies don't get. The basic concept is there they just need to address the many elephants in the room one is cost. There are some interesting reports out there that look at what you posted in more detail plus many other issues. Apparently the build quality on them is rubbish ! Electric will be the vehicle of the future just at least a decade or 2 of sorting out the numerous issues  and not sure it will be Tesla as with most of these green concepts... they can't stand on their own..... mostly... but in time they will... there's no need to SHOVE them down everyones throat... Very little two stroke deisel engines are used in model RC planes and helicopters these days. They have all been replaced with electric drive trains and Lithium battery technology. It won't belong before this reaches mainstream and the ubiquitous car ;) See the power you can get from just two small electric powered toy helicopters !! Smell the power and smell the fear :D LOL https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77uK19KxMuI

I have brush-less/lithium poly powered RC cars that can hit 60kph but only last 20 minutes even with a 5000 m-amp Lipo. I have a petrol RC car that can hit 120 and last about the same.
I can get my electric ones up to the same speed but the cost would be thousands. My petrol car cost me $200 !
My mate bought a $400 brushless motor upgrade (for an RC car that cost $700) but that car can not catch my petrol one !

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 14^th, 2018 at 10:08am:

RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 13th, 2018 at 6:39pm: Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 13th, 2018 at 2:12pm: RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 13th, 2018 at 8:31am: TheFunPolice wrote on Feb 10th, 2018 at 4:28pm: RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 9th, 2018 at 7:37am: TheFunPolice wrote on Feb 8th, 2018 at 9:51pm: ..and the planet accountants all know it, they just pretend they don't!  ;D They need another evolution in technology there are both serious technical and economic issues that need to be resolved. Such as? Price to start with ... Teslas cost 100-200k yet this leads to them making a loss ...... not economically sustainable. They claim 400KM out of a recharge which I assume is feathering the accelerator .... then an hour to rapid recharge (if there is one near where you run out) .... based on that most petrol cars would beat it to Sydney to QLD as it would require 2-3 recharges wasting 3 hrs ! Not against them they just need more work. The Chinese are on to it so maybe in a decade or two they will be practical. Where do you get this figure of 100-200k? https://www.drive.com.au/new-car-details/tesla/model-s/75d-sportback-sedan-5dr-reduction-gear-1sp-awd-ac193kw/2000275?trackLink=newCarResults1 Not up to speed with google ? And yes they are making a loss at these numbers ! There are a few Chinese companies on to it so they will both get the price and practicality working ...... one has already built one that blows the doors off Teslas but as I said it will need time ! Where in that link does it say selling at a loss.

OK go google Tesla and look up their financial situation .... you do know how to use google ? Their financial issues are very well known and publicised !

RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 14^th, 2018 at 10:23am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 14th, 2018 at 10:08am: RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 13th, 2018 at 6:39pm: Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 13th, 2018 at 2:12pm: RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 13th, 2018 at 8:31am: TheFunPolice wrote on Feb 10th, 2018 at 4:28pm: RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 9th, 2018 at 7:37am: TheFunPolice wrote on Feb 8th, 2018 at 9:51pm: ..and the planet accountants all know it, they just pretend they don't!  ;D They need another evolution in technology there are both serious technical and economic issues that need to be resolved. Such as? Price to start with ... Teslas cost 100-200k yet this leads to them making a loss ...... not economically sustainable. They claim 400KM out of a recharge which I assume is feathering the accelerator .... then an hour to rapid recharge (if there is one near where you run out) .... based on that most petrol cars would beat it to Sydney to QLD as it would require 2-3 recharges wasting 3 hrs ! Not against them they just need more work. The Chinese are on to it so maybe in a decade or two they will be practical. Where do you get this figure of 100-200k? https://www.drive.com.au/new-car-details/tesla/model-s/75d-sportback-sedan-5dr-reduction-gear-1sp-awd-ac193kw/2000275?trackLink=newCarResults1 Not up to speed with google ? And yes they are making a loss at these numbers ! There are a few Chinese companies on to it so they will both get the price and practicality working ...... one has already built one that blows the doors off Teslas but as I said it will need time ! Where in that link does it say selling at a loss. OK go google Tesla and look up their financial situation .... you do know how to use google ? Their financial issues are very well known and publicised !

Which may or may not have to do wit hthe car. What I'm asking is how do you know that each and every car is sold on a loss.

RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 14^th, 2018 at 10:20am:

Sir lastnail wrote on Feb 14th, 2018 at 10:01am: President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Feb 13th, 2018 at 7:01pm: RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 13th, 2018 at 6:55pm: The Mechanic Yes its cart before the horse business model, they are trying to commercialise a car that has failed very basic proof of concept and are running into all sorts of issues these electric car worshipping zombies don't get. The basic concept is there they just need to address the many elephants in the room one is cost. There are some interesting reports out there that look at what you posted in more detail plus many other issues. Apparently the build quality on them is rubbish ! Electric will be the vehicle of the future just at least a decade or 2 of sorting out the numerous issues  and not sure it will be Tesla as with most of these green concepts... they can't stand on their own..... mostly... but in time they will... there's no need to SHOVE them down everyones throat... Very little two stroke deisel engines are used in model RC planes and helicopters these days. They have all been replaced with electric drive trains and Lithium battery technology. It won't belong before this reaches mainstream and the ubiquitous car ;) See the power you can get from just two small electric powered toy helicopters !! Smell the power and smell the fear :D LOL https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77uK19KxMuI I have brush-less/lithium poly powered RC cars that can hit 60kph but only last 20 minutes even with a 5000 m-amp Lipo. I have a petrol RC car that can hit 120 and last about the same. I can get my electric ones up to the same speed but the cost would be thousands. My petrol car cost me $200 ! My mate bought a $400 brushless motor upgrade (for an RC car that cost $700) but that car can not catch my petrol one !

and yet nearly all RC models sold use electric drive trains and no one is complaining about the battery life !!

and if you need longer times hybrids are now appearing !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jubE4iLZ2-A

RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 14^th, 2018 at 10:23am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 14th, 2018 at 10:08am: RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 13th, 2018 at 6:39pm: Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 13th, 2018 at 2:12pm: RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 13th, 2018 at 8:31am: TheFunPolice wrote on Feb 10th, 2018 at 4:28pm: RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 9th, 2018 at 7:37am: TheFunPolice wrote on Feb 8th, 2018 at 9:51pm: ..and the planet accountants all know it, they just pretend they don't!  ;D They need another evolution in technology there are both serious technical and economic issues that need to be resolved. Such as? Price to start with ... Teslas cost 100-200k yet this leads to them making a loss ...... not economically sustainable. They claim 400KM out of a recharge which I assume is feathering the accelerator .... then an hour to rapid recharge (if there is one near where you run out) .... based on that most petrol cars would beat it to Sydney to QLD as it would require 2-3 recharges wasting 3 hrs ! Not against them they just need more work. The Chinese are on to it so maybe in a decade or two they will be practical. Where do you get this figure of 100-200k? https://www.drive.com.au/new-car-details/tesla/model-s/75d-sportback-sedan-5dr-reduction-gear-1sp-awd-ac193kw/2000275?trackLink=newCarResults1 Not up to speed with google ? And yes they are making a loss at these numbers ! There are a few Chinese companies on to it so they will both get the price and practicality working ...... one has already built one that blows the doors off Teslas but as I said it will need time ! Where in that link does it say selling at a loss. OK go google Tesla and look up their financial situation .... you do know how to use google ? Their financial issues are very well known and publicised !

You talk like Tesla's finances are unique to itself and no one else !

Tesla is a start-up and not an established company like GMC which has been going for more than 50 years and nearly went bankrupt if it wasn't for a government bailout  !!

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 14^th, 2018 at 10:37am:

RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 14th, 2018 at 10:23am: Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 14th, 2018 at 10:08am: RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 13th, 2018 at 6:39pm: Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 13th, 2018 at 2:12pm: RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 13th, 2018 at 8:31am: TheFunPolice wrote on Feb 10th, 2018 at 4:28pm: RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 9th, 2018 at 7:37am: TheFunPolice wrote on Feb 8th, 2018 at 9:51pm: ..and the planet accountants all know it, they just pretend they don't!  ;D They need another evolution in technology there are both serious technical and economic issues that need to be resolved. Such as? Price to start with ... Teslas cost 100-200k yet this leads to them making a loss ...... not economically sustainable. They claim 400KM out of a recharge which I assume is feathering the accelerator .... then an hour to rapid recharge (if there is one near where you run out) .... based on that most petrol cars would beat it to Sydney to QLD as it would require 2-3 recharges wasting 3 hrs ! Not against them they just need more work. The Chinese are on to it so maybe in a decade or two they will be practical. Where do you get this figure of 100-200k? https://www.drive.com.au/new-car-details/tesla/model-s/75d-sportback-sedan-5dr-reduction-gear-1sp-awd-ac193kw/2000275?trackLink=newCarResults1 Not up to speed with google ? And yes they are making a loss at these numbers ! There are a few Chinese companies on to it so they will both get the price and practicality working ...... one has already built one that blows the doors off Teslas but as I said it will need time ! Where in that link does it say selling at a loss. OK go google Tesla and look up their financial situation .... you do know how to use google ? Their financial issues are very well known and publicised ! Which may or may not have to do wit hthe car. What I'm asking is how do you know that each and every car is sold on a loss.

Yes it does, sorry to tell you but when you run a company selling cars the idea it to make a profit :-)

I think you need to read up more about Tesla and its issues.

As keep saying electric cars are still a decade or two off being a real threat to petrol / diesel cars. Watch the Chinese on this by then Tesla might be gone !

Why cant you just answer the question?

Sir lastnail wrote on Feb 14^th, 2018 at 11:11am:

RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 14th, 2018 at 10:23am: Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 14th, 2018 at 10:08am: RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 13th, 2018 at 6:39pm: Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 13th, 2018 at 2:12pm: RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 13th, 2018 at 8:31am: TheFunPolice wrote on Feb 10th, 2018 at 4:28pm: RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 9th, 2018 at 7:37am: TheFunPolice wrote on Feb 8th, 2018 at 9:51pm: ..and the planet accountants all know it, they just pretend they don't!  ;D They need another evolution in technology there are both serious technical and economic issues that need to be resolved. Such as? Price to start with ... Teslas cost 100-200k yet this leads to them making a loss ...... not economically sustainable. They claim 400KM out of a recharge which I assume is feathering the accelerator .... then an hour to rapid recharge (if there is one near where you run out) .... based on that most petrol cars would beat it to Sydney to QLD as it would require 2-3 recharges wasting 3 hrs ! Not against them they just need more work. The Chinese are on to it so maybe in a decade or two they will be practical. Where do you get this figure of 100-200k? https://www.drive.com.au/new-car-details/tesla/model-s/75d-sportback-sedan-5dr-reduction-gear-1sp-awd-ac193kw/2000275?trackLink=newCarResults1 Not up to speed with google ? And yes they are making a loss at these numbers ! There are a few Chinese companies on to it so they will both get the price and practicality working ...... one has already built one that blows the doors off Teslas but as I said it will need time ! Where in that link does it say selling at a loss. OK go google Tesla and look up their financial situation .... you do know how to use google ? Their financial issues are very well known and publicised ! You talk like Tesla's finances are unique to itself and no one else ! Tesla is a start-up and not an established company like GMC which has been going for more than 50 years and nearly went bankrupt if it wasn't for a government bailout  !!

No I am talking about a car company that makes electric cars that is really struggling for many reasons. The big reason is the technology is just not ready needs more work. Try reading my post instead of speculating BS.

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 10:11am:

Why cant you just answer the question?

Because anyone who has the slightest interest in the Auto industry knows Tesla is really struggling. Are you a baby ? Go look it up and educate yourself !

RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 11:36am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 10:11am: Why cant you just answer the question? Because anyone who has the slightest interest in the Auto industry knows Tesla is really struggling. Are you a baby ? Go look it up and educate yourself !

No I'm asking you to provide evidence for an assertion.

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 12:04pm:

RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 11:36am: Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 10:11am: Why cant you just answer the question? Because anyone who has the slightest interest in the Auto industry knows Tesla is really struggling. Are you a baby ? Go look it up and educate yourself ! No I'm asking you to provide evidence for an assertion.

Oh well if you think Tesla doing really well go buy one and shares in the company and report back you little baby.

RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 12:07pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 12:04pm: RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 11:36am: Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 10:11am: Why cant you just answer the question? Because anyone who has the slightest interest in the Auto industry knows Tesla is really struggling. Are you a baby ? Go look it up and educate yourself ! No I'm asking you to provide evidence for an assertion. Oh well if you think Tesla doing really well go buy one and shares in the company and report back you little baby.

I'm not making a comment at all, all I'm asking is for you to provide evidence to your claim that Tesla is losing money on every car.

Sir lastnail wrote on Feb 14^th, 2018 at 11:08am:

RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 14th, 2018 at 10:20am: Sir lastnail wrote on Feb 14th, 2018 at 10:01am: President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Feb 13th, 2018 at 7:01pm: RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 13th, 2018 at 6:55pm: The Mechanic Yes its cart before the horse business model, they are trying to commercialise a car that has failed very basic proof of concept and are running into all sorts of issues these electric car worshipping zombies don't get. The basic concept is there they just need to address the many elephants in the room one is cost. There are some interesting reports out there that look at what you posted in more detail plus many other issues. Apparently the build quality on them is rubbish ! Electric will be the vehicle of the future just at least a decade or 2 of sorting out the numerous issues  and not sure it will be Tesla as with most of these green concepts... they can't stand on their own..... mostly... but in time they will... there's no need to SHOVE them down everyones throat... Very little two stroke deisel engines are used in model RC planes and helicopters these days. They have all been replaced with electric drive trains and Lithium battery technology. It won't belong before this reaches mainstream and the ubiquitous car ;) See the power you can get from just two small electric powered toy helicopters !! Smell the power and smell the fear :D LOL https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77uK19KxMuI I have brush-less/lithium poly powered RC cars that can hit 60kph but only last 20 minutes even with a 5000 m-amp Lipo. I have a petrol RC car that can hit 120 and last about the same. I can get my electric ones up to the same speed but the cost would be thousands. My petrol car cost me $200 ! My mate bought a $400 brushless motor upgrade (for an RC car that cost $700) but that car can not catch my petrol one ! and yet nearly all RC models sold use electric drive trains and no one is complaining about the battery life !! and if you need longer times hybrids are now appearing ! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jubE4iLZ2-A

Because you can whip in a fully charged battery in seconds .... I am just pointing out while Electric Brushless can match Petrol RC cars its at 10-20 times the cost. What I do notice is off the mark the brushless is quick but once the petrol revs up it disappears, its quite dangerous doing over 100 kph they get out of sight real quick and you need about twice the space. Preferable looking down from about 5-10m up as well.

I think the solution for real electric cars will be a quick battery swap system which I assume one of the car companies is at least working on.

I think the idea of Tesla not making a profit is different to taking their profits and expanding , also borrowing to expand on the fact that they have 500000 orders for their Model 3 each with a $1000 deposit thats 500 million dollars right there. If they sell those 500000 cars at  $40000 each that's 20 billion ,even with the fist cars made they are on the same profit bracket as a Porsche just over 20%.  With that kind of presales wouldn't u borrow as much money as u could to make the facilities to make them.
Last year the model S  was the best selling luxury car in the USA and last month was the hightest selling one in Germany home of beamers and bmw.
Figures realesed at the end of March showed the Model 3 the best selling electric car in the Usa for 2018, they have been slow off the mark but even then a lot faster than any other car manufacterer in getting a car into the lots.
So really with no competition and 500000 pre orders for thair new car and the best selling Luxury car in USA and Germany with the Model S not to mention their battery section sky rocketing in both residential and grid (biggest battery pack in the world end of last year in SA).
All their products have waiting lists and so they r spending all their profits to get bigger, their stock prices showing this as they r worth more than any other car company in USA.
SO yes they haven't made a prophet and I hope they don't for a long time because that would mean they r getting bigger and bigger.
Ohh and as for range the top Tesla get 500km range. They take 20 mins to charge to 80% (recommended full charge for a lithium battery)so that's a 400km top up in 20 mins so. That's 900km with a 20 break in the middle . In Australia there r charge stations from Melbourne to Brisbane that Tesla have installed and its free to use them.
If I was in the Market for a top of the range Luxury car and could get one that cost me nothing for fuel about $200 a year for servicing ($3500 for a BMW) , no motor noise and do the quarter mile in 10.5 seconds I know what I would pick.

Hopeless concept. That's why all the major auto manufactures are introducing them as quickly as they can.

RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 11:36am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 10:11am: Why cant you just answer the question? Because anyone who has the slightest interest in the Auto industry knows Tesla is really struggling. Are you a baby ? Go look it up and educate yourself !

Quote:

................. Tesla lost over $2bn in 2017. Well before it confirmed the latest missed production target, investors worried about the firm’s cash-burn rate in 2018. In addition to the $2bn or so of capital that may be required to expand production of the Model 3, Tesla has some $1.2bn in convertible debt maturing by early next year. On March 27th Moody’s, a credit-rating agency, downgraded Tesla’s debt, cautioning that the firm “will likely need to raise additional capital during the second half of 2019”. Jefferies, a bank, predicts that Tesla will need $2.5bn to $3bn this year................

https://www.economist.com/news/business/21739981-road-ahead-elon-musks-car-company-looking-more-perilous-tesla-heading-cash

https://www.economist.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/800-width/images/print-edition/20180407_WBC217.png

Sprintcyclist wrote on Apr 6^th, 2018 at 9:28pm:

RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 11:36am: Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 10:11am: Why cant you just answer the question? Because anyone who has the slightest interest in the Auto industry knows Tesla is really struggling. Are you a baby ? Go look it up and educate yourself ! Quote: ................. Tesla lost over $2bn in 2017. Well before it confirmed the latest missed production target, investors worried about the firm’s cash-burn rate in 2018. In addition to the $2bn or so of capital that may be required to expand production of the Model 3, Tesla has some $1.2bn in convertible debt maturing by early next year. On March 27th Moody’s, a credit-rating agency, downgraded Tesla’s debt, cautioning that the firm “will likely need to raise additional capital during the second half of 2019”. Jefferies, a bank, predicts that Tesla will need $2.5bn to $3bn this year................

Wow that jump at the end, if it keeps going like that will be a few months to be on target then sell the other 500000 pre orders they r guaranteed to have, also last quarter was their biggest production to date,
I googled their stock today poor buggers are only worth 50.5 billion today,, sucks to be them. last week they have recovered 5% but i dont really think Elon is worried about the sort game.

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 7^th, 2018 at 7:24am:

last week they have recovered 5% but i dont really think Elon is worried about the sort game.

Nope.he's happy green credit mining. ;)

lee wrote on Apr 7^th, 2018 at 11:44am:

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 7th, 2018 at 7:24am: last week they have recovered 5% but i dont really think Elon is worried about the short game. Nope.he's happy green credit mining. ;)

I'm not really sure what u mean

issuevoter wrote on Apr 6^th, 2018 at 9:20pm:

Hopeless concept. That's why all the major auto manufactures are introducing them as quickly as they can.

Well most of them r saying they r anyway which is good for all the EV companies out there, I think of Kodak

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 7^th, 2018 at 1:21pm:

lee wrote on Apr 7th, 2018 at 11:44am: DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 7th, 2018 at 7:24am: last week they have recovered 5% but i dont really think Elon is worried about the short game. Nope.he's happy green credit mining. ;) I'm not really sure what u mean

He sells green credits to  ICE  manufacturers. For reducing CO2 "pollution".

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 7^th, 2018 at 1:28pm:

issuevoter wrote on Apr 6th, 2018 at 9:20pm: Hopeless concept. That's why all the major auto manufactures are introducing them as quickly as they can. Well most of them r saying they r anyway which is good for all the EV companies out there, I think of Kodak

I think everyone is thinking about Kodak, especially hot to trot entepreneurs!

Sprintcyclist wrote on Apr 6^th, 2018 at 9:28pm:

RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 11:36am: Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 10:11am: Why cant you just answer the question? Because anyone who has the slightest interest in the Auto industry knows Tesla is really struggling. Are you a baby ? Go look it up and educate yourself ! Quote: ................. Tesla lost over $2bn in 2017. Well before it confirmed the latest missed production target, investors worried about the firm’s cash-burn rate in 2018. In addition to the $2bn or so of capital that may be required to expand production of the Model 3, Tesla has some $1.2bn in convertible debt maturing by early next year. On March 27th Moody’s, a credit-rating agency, downgraded Tesla’s debt, cautioning that the firm “will likely need to raise additional capital during the second half of 2019”. Jefferies, a bank, predicts that Tesla will need $2.5bn to $3bn this year................ https://www.economist.com/news/business/21739981-road-ahead-elon-musks-car-company-looking-more-perilous-tesla-heading-cash https://www.economist.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/800-width/images/print-edition/20180407_WBC217.png

Just more proof that people want these electric cars. What about the cash burn rate of Holden, Ford. Mitsubishi, Nissan  building fossil fool cars that nobody wanted in the end ? How much did Australian tax payers blow on that bullshit ?

lee wrote on Apr 7^th, 2018 at 1:45pm:

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 7th, 2018 at 1:21pm: lee wrote on Apr 7th, 2018 at 11:44am: DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 7th, 2018 at 7:24am: last week they have recovered 5% but i dont really think Elon is worried about the short game. Nope.he's happy green credit mining. ;) I'm not really sure what u mean He sells green credits to  ICE  manufacturers. For reducing CO2 "pollution".

Ahh I see it looks like they made about 200 million last year on them, of course if the other car manufactures gave a damn about pollution Tesla wouldn't make a cent.

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 7:32am:

Ahh I see it looks like they made about 200 million last year on them, of course if the other car manufactures gave a damn about pollution Tesla wouldn't make a cent.

That is only of you believe CO2 is pollution.

Ever considered CO2 is an essential gas?

lee wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 11:21am:

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8th, 2018 at 7:32am: Ahh I see it looks like they made about 200 million last year on them, of course if the other car manufactures gave a damn about pollution Tesla wouldn't make a cent. That is only of you believe CO2 is pollution. Ever considered CO2 is an essential gas?

I didn't mention co2 on purpose I said pollution as in smog in any big city and why we don't close a garage with a car running.
The following are classes of chemical compounds that have been found in diesel exhaust.[21]
Class of chemical contaminant
Note
antimony compounds[citation needed]
Toxicity similar to arsenic poisoning[22]
beryllium compounds
IARC Group 1 carcinogens
chromium compounds[23]
IARC Group 3 carcinogens
cobalt compounds

cyanide compounds[23]

dioxins[23] and dibenzofurans

manganese compounds[23]

mercury compounds[23]
IARC Group 3 carcinogens
nitrogen oxides[23]
5.6 ppm or 6500 μg/m³[1]
polycyclic organic matter, including
polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs)[1][23]

selenium compounds

sulfur compounds[23]

as the diesels utes r the biggest sellers in Australia at the moment and our standards r so low that the vw scandal didn't matter in Australia its a problem.

Although that's off topic, California they r trying to stop pollution eg smog in LA and Tesla capitalizes on this because the other car manufactures don't give a damn about peoples wellbeing.

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 12:15pm:

I said pollution as in smog in any big city

So where is the smog? You do understand Smog = Smoke and Fog?


DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 12:15pm:

why we don't close a garage with a car running.

That's CO. Not pollution.


DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 12:15pm:

The following are classes of chemical compounds that have been found in diesel exhaust.[21] Class of chemical contaminant Note antimony compounds[citation needed] Toxicity similar to arsenic poisoning[22] beryllium compounds IARC Group 1 carcinogens chromium compounds[23] IARC Group 3 carcinogens cobalt compounds cyanide compounds[23] dioxins[23] and dibenzofurans manganese compounds[23] mercury compounds[23] IARC Group 3 carcinogens nitrogen oxides[23] 5.6 ppm or 6500 μg/m³[1] polycyclic organic matter, including polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs)[1][23] selenium compounds sulfur compounds[23]

Any notes as to their toxicity?


DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 12:15pm:

Tesla capitalizes on this because the other car manufactures don't give a damn about peoples wellbeing.

Yeah. If you can afford a Tesla. More virtue signalling.


DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 12:15pm:

California they r trying to stop pollution eg smog in LA

And busy trying to blame the oil companies for selling the product. But they are the ones taxing it and selling bonds without a warning that pollution is BAD.

"Sam Atwood, a spokesman for the South Coast Air Quality Management District, said emissions from trucks, cars, factories and other tracked sources are declining. But, he added, ozone levels depend greatly on the weather."

https://www.dailynews.com/2017/05/24/why-is-southern-californias-air-quality-so-bad-its-smog-season/

*

Still peddling your denialist bullshit I see.

https://www.greenvehicleguide.gov.au/pages/Information/VehicleEmissions


Quote:

Greenhouse Gas Emissions The principal emissions from motor vehicles (by volume) are greenhouse gases, which contribute to climate change. In vehicles, the principal greenhouse gas is carbon dioxide (CO2), but vehicles also produce the greenhouse gases nitrous oxide and methane. Not all vehicles have the same impact though. The vehicle's level of CO2 emissions is linked to the amount of fuel consumed and the type of fuel used. The road transport sector depends on petroleum based fuels. Growth in the Australian road transport task has led to a corresponding increase in number of vehicles consuming fuel, which in turn, has led to an increase in greenhouse gas emissions from the sector. In 2012, road transport is estimated to have produced 76oMt CO2-e, which accounted for 84 per cent of emissions from the transport sector and over 12% of all greenhouse gas emissions produced in Australia1. The Department of the Environment maintains Australia's National Greenhouse Accounts which has more information on the emissions of greenhouse gases in Australia. On the Green Vehicle Guide (GVG), a higher CO2 number means the car produces higher levels of carbon dioxide (CO2) from the tailpipe. All new vehicle models up to 3.5 tonnes gross vehicle mass sold in Australia are tested to determine both fuel consumption and the level of CO2 emissions emitted. The test produces three results for fuel consumption and CO2 emissions - the ‘combined’, 'urban' and 'extra-urban' values. The combined CO2 emissions value is used as the primary basis for ranking vehicles on the GVG website. This information is also displayed on the Fuel Consumption Label attached to the windscreen of new vehicles.

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 1:20pm:

Still peddling your denialist bullshit I see.

Nowhere does it mention smog. ;)

2012? 6 years ago. How many old cars have been "retired" to be replaced bu newer ones?

lee wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 1:48pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 8th, 2018 at 1:20pm: Still peddling your denialist bullshit I see. Nowhere does it mention smog. ;) 2012? 6 years ago. How many old cars have been "retired" to be replaced bu newer ones?

Yes it does but you just keep pretending the sh.t that comes out of a tail pipe is good stuff ;)


Quote:

Air Pollutant Emissions Air pollutants such as carbon monoxide, nitrogen oxides, particulate matter, volatile organic compounds and benzene are emitted into the environment by motor vehicles. Air pollutants can contribute to urban air quality problems, such as photochemical smog and adversely affect human health. Further information on the impacts and sources of air pollutants is available from the Department of the Environment. National Pollutant Inventory data indicates that in Australia motor vehicles remain a major cause of air pollution in urban areas. However, not all vehicles contribute the same amount of air pollution to the atmosphere.

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 2:13pm:

Yes it does but you just keep pretending the sh.t that comes out of a tail pipe is good stuff Wink Quote: Air Pollutant Emissions Air pollutants such as carbon monoxide, nitrogen oxides, particulate matter, volatile organic compounds and benzene are emitted into the environment by motor vehicles. Air pollutants can contribute to urban air quality problems, such as photochemical smog and adversely affect human health.

Not part of your original post.

You do know "can contribute" is not the same as "does contribute", in all circumstances?

And if you can find where I have said that " the sh.t that comes out of a tail pipe is good stuff "; please do so. I have denied nothing.

"Australia is on track to overachieve on its 2020 target by 294 million tonnes of carbon dioxide equivalent (Mt CO2-e), inclusive of carryover, or 166 Mt CO2-e without carryover.

This is an improvement on the 2016 projections, which estimated an overachievement of 224 Mt CO2-e.

https://www.environment.gov.au/system/files/resources/eb62f30f-3e0f-4bfa-bb7a-c87818160fcf/files/australia-emissions-projections-2017.pdf

lee wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 12:54pm:

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8th, 2018 at 12:15pm: I said pollution as in smog in any big city So where is the smog? You do understand Smog = Smoke and Fog? DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8th, 2018 at 12:15pm: why we don't close a garage with a car running. That's CO. Not pollution. DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8th, 2018 at 12:15pm: The following are classes of chemical compounds that have been found in diesel exhaust.[21] Class of chemical contaminant Note antimony compounds[citation needed] Toxicity similar to arsenic poisoning[22] beryllium compounds IARC Group 1 carcinogens chromium compounds[23] IARC Group 3 carcinogens cobalt compounds cyanide compounds[23] dioxins[23] and dibenzofurans manganese compounds[23] mercury compounds[23] IARC Group 3 carcinogens nitrogen oxides[23] 5.6 ppm or 6500 μg/m³[1] polycyclic organic matter, including polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs)[1][23] selenium compounds sulfur compounds[23] Any notes as to their toxicity? DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8th, 2018 at 12:15pm: Tesla capitalizes on this because the other car manufactures don't give a damn about peoples wellbeing. Yeah. If you can afford a Tesla. More virtue signalling. DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8th, 2018 at 12:15pm: California they r trying to stop pollution eg smog in LA And busy trying to blame the oil companies for selling the product. But they are the ones taxing it and selling bonds without a warning that pollution is BAD. "Sam Atwood, a spokesman for the South Coast Air Quality Management District, said emissions from trucks, cars, factories and other tracked sources are declining. But, he added, ozone levels depend greatly on the weather."

ok I stand corrected smog isn't the word, umm toxic chemical cloud from burning fossil fuels TCCBFF maybe, I'm sorry for the mix up
Their toxicity, well just Nitrogen Oxide was said by german govt to kill 6000 a year and if it was fine I'm sure a country like china wouldn't be wasting money trying to clean their capitals air.
That's CO. Not pollution. lol u can tell yourself that as your dying in your garage. Carbon Monoxide poisioning is still poisioning
If u  have a few million cars all producing that in a little area i think id rather no exhust pipes

Yeah. If you can afford a Tesla. More virtue signalling.
ohh another new attack when the  old ones dont work ? so it goes from tesla to owners of the cars, so someone buys a car that is cheeper in the long run faster and better service(tesla owners happiest of all car brands)they r virtue signalling. seams petty to me but please run with it. They probably wear virtue clothes as well.

And busy trying to blame the oil companies for selling the product. But they are the ones taxing it and selling bonds without a warning that pollution is BAD.

I guess u mean the goverment or is it the virtuous owners of telsa's ?
wow im surpised u only brought 2 new arguments to this one.
I suppose making regulations over the board to say fossil fuels are damaging and realizing they just cant get rid of them without stoping the whole economy.
Taxing them seams good, what would u rather ?

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 2:58pm:

Their toxicity, well just Nitrogen Oxide was said by german govt to kill 6000 a year

Actually it says that is responsible for the early deaths of people.

That is a statistical measure, because no one can know how "early" people die as opposed to the "normal" death of these same people.


DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 2:58pm:

nd if it was fine I'm sure a country like china wouldn't be wasting money trying to clean their capitals air.

Yes. Well the Chinese have been so concerned they are only just starting to build modern coal fired plants. It is why they close the plants when a big conference is on, bu
to allow the traffic to still run.


DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 2:58pm:

That's CO. Not pollution. lol u can tell yourself that as your dying in your garage. Carbon Monoxide poisioning is still poisioning If u  have a few million cars all producing that in a little area i think id rather no exhust pipes

You were talking pollution, which is generally particle related. CO isn't a particle.


DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 2:58pm:

so it goes from tesla to owners of the cars, so someone buys a car that is cheeper in the long run faster and better service(tesla owners happiest of all car brands)they r virtue signalling. seams petty to me but please run with it.

Perhaps you need to look at the longevity of Teslas to confirm that suspicion.

"Graves says the lifespan of a car is determined by how much it costs to repair it so it remains roadworthy. Once a car costs too much to repair, it becomes a parts car, no matter how much of its useful life remains in theory. Graves believes that a Tesla will very quickly be more expensive to repair than they are worth. Despite Tesla’s claim that each vehicle will have a power train capable of withstanding 1 million miles, few if any owners will keep a vehicle for that long. They simply won’t be able to afford to.

Graves highlights the lack of aftermarket parts and independent repair shops as two factors likely to make repairing high mileage Teslas prohibitively expensive. Only Massachusetts has passed legislation requiring all manufacturers to make their repair and service manuals available to owners and repair shops."

https://www.teslarati.com/contrarian-viewpoint-on-tesla-longevity/

Then of course there are suspension breakages.

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 2:58pm:

lee wrote on Apr 8th, 2018 at 12:54pm: DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8th, 2018 at 12:15pm: I said pollution as in smog in any big city So where is the smog? You do understand Smog = Smoke and Fog? DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8th, 2018 at 12:15pm: why we don't close a garage with a car running. That's CO. Not pollution. DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8th, 2018 at 12:15pm: The following are classes of chemical compounds that have been found in diesel exhaust.[21] Class of chemical contaminant Note antimony compounds[citation needed] Toxicity similar to arsenic poisoning[22] beryllium compounds IARC Group 1 carcinogens chromium compounds[23] IARC Group 3 carcinogens cobalt compounds cyanide compounds[23] dioxins[23] and dibenzofurans manganese compounds[23] mercury compounds[23] IARC Group 3 carcinogens nitrogen oxides[23] 5.6 ppm or 6500 μg/m³[1] polycyclic organic matter, including polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs)[1][23] selenium compounds sulfur compounds[23] Any notes as to their toxicity? DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8th, 2018 at 12:15pm: Tesla capitalizes on this because the other car manufactures don't give a damn about peoples wellbeing. Yeah. If you can afford a Tesla. More virtue signalling. DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8th, 2018 at 12:15pm: California they r trying to stop pollution eg smog in LA And busy trying to blame the oil companies for selling the product. But they are the ones taxing it and selling bonds without a warning that pollution is BAD. "Sam Atwood, a spokesman for the South Coast Air Quality Management District, said emissions from trucks, cars, factories and other tracked sources are declining. But, he added, ozone levels depend greatly on the weather." ok I stand corrected smog isn't the word, umm toxic chemical cloud from burning fossil fuels TCCBFF maybe, I'm sorry for the mix up Their toxicity, well just Nitrogen Oxide was said by german govt to kill 6000 a year and if it was fine I'm sure a country like china wouldn't be wasting money trying to clean their capitals air. That's CO. Not pollution. lol u can tell yourself that as your dying in your garage. Carbon Monoxide poisioning is still poisioning If u  have a few million cars all producing that in a little area i think id rather no exhust pipes Yeah. If you can afford a Tesla. More virtue signalling. ohh another new attack when the  old ones dont work ? so it goes from tesla to owners of the cars, so someone buys a car that is cheeper in the long run faster and better service(tesla owners happiest of all car brands)they r virtue signalling. seams petty to me but please run with it. They probably wear virtue clothes as well. And busy trying to blame the oil companies for selling the product. But they are the ones taxing it and selling bonds without a warning that pollution is BAD. I guess u mean the goverment or is it the virtuous owners of telsa's ? wow im surpised u only brought 2 new arguments to this one. I suppose making regulations over the board to say fossil fuels are damaging and realizing they just cant get rid of them without stoping the whole economy. Taxing them seams good, what would u rather ?

Don't apologize to it. Each day every city in Australia is covered with a thick plume of filthy yellow and grey smog and it aint coming out of coal fire powered stations either :(

A major source of greenhouse gas is the humble automobile and no polli wants to even talk about it which shows you how serious they are when it comes to reducing a major source of GHG emissions !!

lee wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 3:29pm:

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8th, 2018 at 2:58pm: Their toxicity, well just Nitrogen Oxide was said by german govt to kill 6000 a year Actually it says that is responsible for the early deaths of people. That is a statistical measure, because no one can know how "early" people die as opposed to the "normal" death of these same people. DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8th, 2018 at 2:58pm: nd if it was fine I'm sure a country like china wouldn't be wasting money trying to clean their capitals air. Yes. Well the Chinese have been so concerned they are only just starting to build modern coal fired plants. It is why they close the plants when a big conference is on, bu to allow the traffic to still run. DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8th, 2018 at 2:58pm: That's CO. Not pollution. lol u can tell yourself that as your dying in your garage. Carbon Monoxide poisioning is still poisioning If u  have a few million cars all producing that in a little area i think id rather no exhust pipes You were talking pollution, which is generally particle related. CO isn't a particle. DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8th, 2018 at 2:58pm: so it goes from tesla to owners of the cars, so someone buys a car that is cheeper in the long run faster and better service(tesla owners happiest of all car brands)they r virtue signalling. seams petty to me but please run with it. Perhaps you need to look at the longevity of Teslas to confirm that suspicion. "Graves says the lifespan of a car is determined by how much it costs to repair it so it remains roadworthy. Once a car costs too much to repair, it becomes a parts car, no matter how much of its useful life remains in theory. Graves believes that a Tesla will very quickly be more expensive to repair than they are worth. Despite Tesla’s claim that each vehicle will have a power train capable of withstanding 1 million miles, few if any owners will keep a vehicle for that long. They simply won’t be able to afford to. Graves highlights the lack of aftermarket parts and independent repair shops as two factors likely to make repairing high mileage Teslas prohibitively expensive. Only Massachusetts has passed legislation requiring all manufacturers to make their repair and service manuals available to owners and repair shops." Then of course there are suspension breakages.

Ok so one of many deadly poisons in diesel helped kill 6000 Germans, much better
CO isn’t a partical so when it kills u it’s not a pollution got it

Ok the lifetime of a low make BMW or Mercedes have long lives and plenty of spaces,they are model S competitors

The vehicle, affectionately named “eHawk”, hit the 300,000 milestone on Tuesday August 29th, 2017. Tesloop’s fleet, which, other than this car, is comprised of exclusively Tesla Model X vehicles, travel as much as 17,000 miles per car each month.

“At Tesloop, we are leveraging Tesla’s next generation transportation platform to deliver the mobility experience of the future, today” said Haydn Sonnad, Tesloop founder. “The electric drivetrain, when coupled with a vast supercharging network, enables a level of vehicle utilization that is not possible with your typical gas car. When these are combined with increasingly sophisticated driving autonomy features and deep connectivity, a whole new approach to mobility can be offered.”

During the first 300,000 miles the total combined maintenance and fuel costs of the Tesla Model S were $10,492, with a total of 12 days in the shop. Of these costs, $6,900 was scheduled maintenance and $3500 was headlight damage due to driving through deep water. Had this been an Mercedes S class, the scheduled routine maintenance and fuel would have been $86,000 ($52,000 maintenance and $36,000* fuel) with 112 days of servicing, or for a Lincoln Town Car $70k,000 ($28,000 maintenance and $42,000** fuel) with around 100 days of servicing.
Ouch that’s 500,000 kms , the model S has 80% less parts than a normal car, so lot less chance of things breaking, yes battery would be expensive , then again if a motor goes on a new vehicular u might as well throw it too.
Not sure what this has to do with the virtue of a Tesla owner.

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 7:24pm:

Ok so one of many deadly poisons in diesel helped kill 6000 Germans, much better

Wrong again. It is a computer study. "on average we estimate that the number of people dying early is". It has no meaning in the real world. Was it one day early, two days early?

The truth is we don't know.

As for the rest - I didn't even mention the battery. ;)

lee wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 7:35pm:

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8th, 2018 at 7:24pm: Ok so one of many deadly poisons in diesel helped kill 6000 Germans, much better Wrong again. It is a computer study. "on average we estimate that the number of people dying early is". It has no meaning in the real world. Was it one day early, two days early? The truth is we don't know. As for the rest - I didn't even mention the battery. ;)

Ok so your telling me u think ICE vehicals don’t have damaging exhaust emissions or just the example I used was not very good ?
No I did becouse if the Tesla have 80% less moving parts that would be the only prohibitively expending thing that could stop it being usable to my thinking.

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 8:40pm:

Ok so your telling me u think ICE vehicals don’t have damaging exhaust emissions

Nope. you keep trying to put words in m mouth.


DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 8:40pm:

No I did becouse if the Tesla have 80% less moving parts that would be the only prohibitively expending thing that could stop it being usable to my thinking.

"Tesla Motors, the maverick electric-car maker, is under scrutiny from federal regulators over suspension failures attributed to its biggest-selling model — along with reports that it had asked owners not to disclose the problem.

The nation’s top auto safety regulator, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, said on Thursday that at least some Tesla customers who experienced suspension failures with Model S luxury cars were asked to sign confidentiality agreements about the issue.

“The agency immediately informed Tesla that any language implying that consumers should not contact the agency regarding safety concerns is unacceptable, and N.H.T.S.A. expects Tesla to eliminate any such language,” said Bryan Thomas, an agency spokesman. “Tesla representatives told N.H.T.S.A. that it was not their intention to dissuade consumers from contacting the agency.”

The regulator added that the agreements that Tesla required were “troublesome.”

Tesla did not respond Thursday to requests for comment. [On Friday, the company responded in a blog post, saying there was no safety defect with the Model S nor any intent to discourage complaints to regulators"

The safety regulator is examining the Model S suspension — the springs, joints and other components that connect a car to its wheels — for possible defects that could be causing premature failures."

    For Tesla Owner, Losing a Wheel Was Just the First Surprise JUNE 10, 2016

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/10/business/tesla-model-s-nhtsa-suspension-failure.html

lee wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 8:55pm:

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8th, 2018 at 8:40pm: Ok so your telling me u think ICE vehicals don’t have damaging exhaust emissions Nope. you keep trying to put words in m mouth. DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8th, 2018 at 8:40pm: No I did becouse if the Tesla have 80% less moving parts that would be the only prohibitively expending thing that could stop it being usable to my thinking. "Tesla Motors, the maverick electric-car maker, is under scrutiny from federal regulators over suspension failures attributed to its biggest-selling model — along with reports that it had asked owners not to disclose the problem. The nation’s top auto safety regulator, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, said on Thursday that at least some Tesla customers who experienced suspension failures with Model S luxury cars were asked to sign confidentiality agreements about the issue. “The agency immediately informed Tesla that any language implying that consumers should not contact the agency regarding safety concerns is unacceptable, and N.H.T.S.A. expects Tesla to eliminate any such language,” said Bryan Thomas, an agency spokesman. “Tesla representatives told N.H.T.S.A. that it was not their intention to dissuade consumers from contacting the agency.” The regulator added that the agreements that Tesla required were “troublesome.” Tesla did not respond Thursday to requests for comment. [On Friday, the company responded in a blog post, saying there was no safety defect with the Model S nor any intent to discourage complaints to regulators" The safety regulator is examining the Model S suspension — the springs, joints and other components that connect a car to its wheels — for possible defects that could be causing premature failures."     For Tesla Owner, Losing a Wheel Was Just the First Surprise JUNE 10, 2016

Ok maybe quote the whole sentence


Ok so your telling me u think ICE vehicals don’t have damaging exhaust emissions or just the example I used was not very good ?
A answer of nope to that confuses me

Ok so that happened 2 years ago what was the findings ?

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 9:23pm:

Ok maybe quote the whole sentence

Well I leave it to you to google Tesla suspension failures.


DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 9:23pm:

Ok so your telling me u think ICE vehicals don’t have damaging exhaust emissions or just the example I used was not very good ? A answer of nope to that confuses me

So you are simple? Who knew?

You did notice I only answered the first part of the question? ;)


DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 9:23pm:

Ok so that happened 2 years ago what was the findings ?

There is an article in the Australian (paywalled) from about 2 weeks ago.

Or you could try -

"Tesla Is Recalling 123,000 Model S Sedans. Here's Why"

http://fortune.com/2018/03/29/tesla-recall-125000-model-s/

lee wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 10:07pm:

Or you could try - "Tesla Is Recalling 123,000 Model S Sedans. Here's Why" http://fortune.com/2018/03/29/tesla-recall-125000-model-s/

I suppose you would like to blame Tesla for a major recall of faulty airbags on millions of fossil fool cars :D LOL

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 9^th, 2018 at 12:08am:

lee wrote on Apr 8th, 2018 at 10:07pm: Or you could try - "Tesla Is Recalling 123,000 Model S Sedans. Here's Why" http://fortune.com/2018/03/29/tesla-recall-125000-model-s/ I suppose you would like to blame Tesla for a major recall of faulty airbags on millions of fossil fool cars :D LOL

Nope. One manufacturer of airbags I believe.

Now corrosion of aluminium bolts? I guess used to save weight. Corrosive due to salts on icy road possibly. That's an engineering issue; not a faulty supply part issue.

Stories of wheels falling off

" First, the known facts.  On Sunday, Apr. 24 of this year, Pete Cordaro had driven his Tesla Model S about 73,000 miles, making it one of the higher-mileage electric vehicles on the road.  The Model S is an all-electric vehicle introduced by Tesla in 2012, and currently retails for about $70,000.  While driving slowly on a back road in Pennsylvania looking for mushrooms, he hit a pothole and heard a "snap."  The left front hub had separated from the control arm of the suspension system.  In simple turns, the front driver's side wheel fell off."

http://engineeringethicsblog.blogspot.com.au/2016/06/teslas-growing-pains-wheel-falling-off.html

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/suspension-problem-on-model-s.69204/page-2

Tesla owners club

And petrol/diesel cars don't have fault?

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Apr 9^th, 2018 at 11:06am:

And petrol/diesel cars don't have fault?

Nope. But generally they don't have a potential catastrophic failure. Wheels falling off is bad at highway speed.

lee wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 9:44pm:

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8th, 2018 at 9:23pm: Ok maybe quote the whole sentence Well I leave it to you to google Tesla suspension failures. DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8th, 2018 at 9:23pm: Ok so your telling me u think ICE vehicals don’t have damaging exhaust emissions or just the example I used was not very good ? A answer of nope to that confuses me So you are simple? Who knew? You did notice I only answered the first part of the question? ;) DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8th, 2018 at 9:23pm: Ok so that happened 2 years ago what was the findings ? There is an article in the Australian (paywalled) from about 2 weeks ago.

Well it’s a double negative do u think exhaust fumes are poison yes or no ?

Ok they have a recall the bolts might break so they r fixing them, that to shows they spotted a fault and r fixing it.

Still no answer on the last article u posted on the finding from 2years ago

lee wrote on Apr 9^th, 2018 at 3:17pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Apr 9th, 2018 at 11:06am: And petrol/diesel cars don't have fault? Nope. But generally they don't have a potential catastrophic failure. Wheels falling off is bad at highway speed.

Ohh dear it just seams u can win lee
I can send links though if u go to electric ,com search for article
Tesla Model S suspension and NDA situation: here are the facts [Updated]

It’s a little diferant to the alarmist crap u posted, the suspension was rooted and Tesla paid for half and guy went to the govt and the rest is history, funny they didn’t make Tesla have a recall on suspension after investigating.
basicaly the guy had been driving the car a lot on old dirt roads and after 120000 k something broke.

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 9^th, 2018 at 9:36pm:

funny they didn’t make Tesla have a recall on suspension after investigating.

So you didn't read the 123,000 Tesla recall? It was only reported 30 March 2018.


DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 9^th, 2018 at 9:36pm:

I can send links though if u go to electric ,com

Electric.com seems to be an electric provider marketplace.

Oh electrik.co 2016. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 9^th, 2018 at 9:02pm:

Still no answer on the last article u posted on the finding from 2years ago

Can't even google. Why am I not surprised? 9 days ago is more recent than 2 years.

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 9^th, 2018 at 9:02pm:

Well it’s a double negative do u think exhaust fumes are poison yes or no ?

lee wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 8:55pm:

DonDeeHippy wrote Yesterday at 6:40pm: Ok so your telling me u think ICE vehicals don’t have damaging exhaust emissions Nope. you keep trying to put words in m mouth.

Actually if you parse the sentence correctly;  "so you think ice vehicles don't have damaging emissions"

The Answer is Nope. (I don't think that at all ) with the part in brackets understood. Understood? So there is NO double negative.


DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 9^th, 2018 at 9:02pm:

Ok they have a recall the bolts might break so they r fixing them, that to shows they spotted a fault and r fixing it.

Nope. The vehicles are being recalled because of corrosion problems. They didn't spot the fault, they failed to even recognise a potential fault that is chemical and should have been spotted.

lee wrote on Apr 9^th, 2018 at 3:17pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Apr 9th, 2018 at 11:06am: And petrol/diesel cars don't have fault? Nope. But generally they don't have a potential catastrophic failure. Wheels falling off is bad at highway speed.

So is that to do with electric cars, or the manufacturer?


E.g. if BMW made an all electric car, do you think its wheels would fall off

lee wrote on Apr 9^th, 2018 at 11:00pm:

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 9th, 2018 at 9:02pm: Well it’s a double negative do u think exhaust fumes are poison yes or no ? lee wrote on Apr 8th, 2018 at 8:55pm: DonDeeHippy wrote Yesterday at 6:40pm: Ok so your telling me u think ICE vehicals don’t have damaging exhaust emissions Nope. you keep trying to put words in m mouth. Actually if you parse the sentence correctly;  "so you think ice vehicles don't have damaging emissions" The Answer is Nope. (I don't think that at all ) with the part in brackets understood. Understood? So there is NO double negative. DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 9th, 2018 at 9:02pm: Ok they have a recall the bolts might break so they r fixing them, that to shows they spotted a fault and r fixing it. Nope. The vehicles are being recalled because of corrosion problems. They didn't spot the fault, they failed to even recognise a potential fault that is chemical and should have been spotted.

you're really scratching the bottom of the barrel now :D LOL

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Apr 10^th, 2018 at 9:12am:

lee wrote on Apr 9th, 2018 at 3:17pm: Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Apr 9th, 2018 at 11:06am: And petrol/diesel cars don't have fault? Nope. But generally they don't have a potential catastrophic failure. Wheels falling off is bad at highway speed. So is that to do with electric cars, or the manufacturer? E.g. if BMW made an all electric car, do you think its wheels would fall off

lee always resorts to using strawman fallacies whenever there is a discussion of renewable energy or electric cars :D

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Apr 10^th, 2018 at 9:12am:

lee wrote on Apr 9th, 2018 at 3:17pm: Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Apr 9th, 2018 at 11:06am: And petrol/diesel cars don't have fault? Nope. But generally they don't have a potential catastrophic failure. Wheels falling off is bad at highway speed. So is that to do with electric cars, or the manufacturer? E.g. if BMW made an all electric car, do you think its wheels would fall off

If BMW made an all electric car and its wheels fell off, they as the manufacturer of the car would be liable. Same as Tesla.

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 10^th, 2018 at 11:22am:

you're really scratching the bottom of the barrel now

Well that's where you live. I have to get to your level for you to understand.

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 10^th, 2018 at 11:25am:

lee always resorts to using strawman fallacies whenever there is a discussion of renewable energy or electric cars

Let's see -

Tesla is the Manufacturer? - Yes

Tesla has reported suspension problems? - Yes

Tesla Model S up to end of 2016 have been recalled? - Yes

The reported problems are corrosion of aluminium bolts from de-icing salts? Yes

Some strawman. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

BTW - It was DonDeeHippy who introduced Tesla to the debate. ;)

lee wrote on Apr 10^th, 2018 at 2:20pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Apr 10th, 2018 at 9:12am: lee wrote on Apr 9th, 2018 at 3:17pm: Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Apr 9th, 2018 at 11:06am: And petrol/diesel cars don't have fault? Nope. But generally they don't have a potential catastrophic failure. Wheels falling off is bad at highway speed. So is that to do with electric cars, or the manufacturer? E.g. if BMW made an all electric car, do you think its wheels would fall off If BMW made an all electric car and its wheels fell off, they as the manufacturer of the car would be liable. Same as Tesla.

So its not an anti-electric thing, its an anti-Tesla thing.

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Apr 10^th, 2018 at 3:05pm:

So its not an anti-electric thing, its an anti-Tesla thing.

I see your reading comprehension hasn't improved.


lee wrote on Apr 10^th, 2018 at 2:20pm:

If BMW made an all electric car and its wheels fell off, they as the manufacturer of the car would be liable. Same as Tesla.

lee wrote on Apr 10^th, 2018 at 2:20pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Apr 10th, 2018 at 9:12am: lee wrote on Apr 9th, 2018 at 3:17pm: Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Apr 9th, 2018 at 11:06am: And petrol/diesel cars don't have fault? Nope. But generally they don't have a potential catastrophic failure. Wheels falling off is bad at highway speed. So is that to do with electric cars, or the manufacturer? E.g. if BMW made an all electric car, do you think its wheels would fall off If BMW made an all electric car and its wheels fell off, they as the manufacturer of the car would be liable. Same as Tesla.

but your argument is that ALL electric cars are a market failure because of a design fault that is unrelated to the underlying propulsion technology.

lee wrote on Apr 10^th, 2018 at 2:26pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 10th, 2018 at 11:25am: lee always resorts to using strawman fallacies whenever there is a discussion of renewable energy or electric cars Let's see - Tesla is the Manufacturer? - Yes Tesla has reported suspension problems? - Yes Tesla Model S up to end of 2016 have been recalled? - Yes The reported problems are corrosion of aluminium bolts from de-icing salts? Yes Some strawman. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D BTW - It was DonDeeHippy who introduced Tesla to the debate. ;)

and fossil fool cars don't have major recalls :D LOL

you're as dumb as dogshit like the rest of your libbo mates. that's why you lot only know how to dig up coal and set fire to it.

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 10^th, 2018 at 6:24pm:

and fossil fool cars don't have major recalls

Yes they do. Generally not 100% of their car model sold.

But does that make it better for Tesla? They have been hand-built. Not mass produced.

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 10^th, 2018 at 6:23pm:

but your argument is that ALL electric cars are a market failure because of a design fault that is unrelated to the underlying propulsion technology.

Perhaps you can quote where I said that? ;)

lee wrote on Apr 10^th, 2018 at 6:58pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 10th, 2018 at 6:24pm: and fossil fool cars don't have major recalls Yes they do. Generally not 100% of their car model sold. But does that make it better for Tesla? They have been hand-built. Not mass produced.

;D

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Apr 10^th, 2018 at 3:05pm:

lee wrote on Apr 10th, 2018 at 2:20pm: Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Apr 10th, 2018 at 9:12am: lee wrote on Apr 9th, 2018 at 3:17pm: Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Apr 9th, 2018 at 11:06am: And petrol/diesel cars don't have fault? Nope. But generally they don't have a potential catastrophic failure. Wheels falling off is bad at highway speed. So is that to do with electric cars, or the manufacturer? E.g. if BMW made an all electric car, do you think its wheels would fall off If BMW made an all electric car and its wheels fell off, they as the manufacturer of the car would be liable. Same as Tesla. So its not an anti-electric thing, its an anti-Tesla thing.

It's class warfare!

I dunno about electric cars...

But I couldn't be happier with my new electric bike.

Yeah, it cost a few bob ($900.00), but it does do around
30km/h, and I get around 40km on a charge.

Worth every penny. :)

** And yes - it's legal. **

---

lee wrote on Apr 10^th, 2018 at 6:58pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 10th, 2018 at 6:24pm: and fossil fool cars don't have major recalls Yes they do. Generally not 100% of their car model sold. But does that make it better for Tesla? They have been hand-built. Not mass produced.

Well considering that Tesla has only been in operation for a very short time with only one or two models what did you expect ? What a stupid comparison to make but not surprising that it comes from a conservative voter :(

Kat wrote on Apr 11^th, 2018 at 7:41pm:

I dunno about electric cars... But I couldn't be happier with my new electric bike. Yeah, it cost a few bob ($900.00), but it does do around 30km/h, and I get around 40km on a charge. Worth every penny. :) ** And yes - it's legal. **

So thats you I yelled at when you over take me on the hills ;)

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 12^th, 2018 at 11:32am:

Well considering that Tesla has only been in operation for a very short time with only one or two models what did you expect ?

Tesla Roadster 2008 - 10 years.
Tesla S
Tesla Model 3
Tesla X.

"As of March 2018, Tesla had issued six product recalls for the Model S, two for the Roadster, and two for the Model X."

Source Wiki

So a recall for 3 out of 4 models. Not a good average.


Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 12^th, 2018 at 11:32am:

What a stupid comparison to make but not surprising that it comes from a conservative voter

So you never research your answers? Who knew? ;D ;D ;D ;D

lee wrote on Apr 12^th, 2018 at 11:55am:

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 12th, 2018 at 11:32am: Well considering that Tesla has only been in operation for a very short time with only one or two models what did you expect ? Tesla Roadster 2008 - 10 years. Tesla S Tesla Model 3 Tesla X. "As of March 2018, Tesla had issued six product recalls for the Model S, two for the Roadster, and two for the Model X." Source Wiki So a recall for 3 out of 4 models. Not a good average. Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 12th, 2018 at 11:32am: What a stupid comparison to make but not surprising that it comes from a conservative voter So you never research your answers? Who knew? ;D ;D ;D ;D

but what is your actual point in all of this ?

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 12^th, 2018 at 12:05pm:

but what is your actual point in all of this ?

That you don't have a clue. Just mindless defence of Tesla. ;)

lee wrote on Apr 12^th, 2018 at 12:43pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 12th, 2018 at 12:05pm: but what is your actual point in all of this ? That you don't have a clue. Just mindless defence of Tesla. ;)

As opposed to the mindless defence of unreliable, polluting, oily clunkety clunk pieces of fossil fool sh.t.

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 12^th, 2018 at 12:59pm:

As opposed to the mindless defence of unreliable, polluting, oily clunkety clunk pieces of fossil fool sh.t.

Nice attempt at deflection.

I don't defend ICE vehicles. They stand or fall on their own merits.

lee wrote on Apr 12^th, 2018 at 1:42pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 12th, 2018 at 12:59pm: As opposed to the mindless defence of unreliable, polluting, oily clunkety clunk pieces of fossil fool sh.t. Nice attempt at deflection. I don't defend ICE vehicles. They stand or fall on their own merits.

so you're a troll that stands for nothing.

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 12^th, 2018 at 4:17pm:

so you're a troll that stands for nothing.

Another jump to another really stupid conclusion. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

lee wrote on Apr 12^th, 2018 at 4:52pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 12th, 2018 at 4:17pm: so you're a troll that stands for nothing. Another jump to another really stupid conclusion. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

No, you're a troll that stands for nothing!

lee wrote on Apr 10^th, 2018 at 2:26pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 10th, 2018 at 11:25am: lee always resorts to using strawman fallacies whenever there is a discussion of renewable energy or electric cars Let's see - Tesla is the Manufacturer? - Yes Tesla has reported suspension problems? - Yes Tesla Model S up to end of 2016 have been recalled? - Yes The reported problems are corrosion of aluminium bolts from de-icing salts? Yes Some strawman. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D BTW - It was DonDeeHippy who introduced Tesla to the debate. ;)

Ohh that’s so funny the way u say that the recall is suspension related.
Its bolts that MIGHT break in cold weather from salt on the road on the power steering and if they fail will make the steering a bit heavier .
The recall has nothing to do with the suspension.....

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 9^th, 2018 at 9:36pm:

lee wrote on Apr 9th, 2018 at 3:17pm: Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Apr 9th, 2018 at 11:06am: And petrol/diesel cars don't have fault? Nope. But generally they don't have a potential catastrophic failure. Wheels falling off is bad at highway speed. Ohh dear it just seams u can win lee I can send links though if u go to electric ,com search for article Tesla Model S suspension and NDA situation: here are the facts [Updated] It’s a little diferant to the alarmist crap u posted, the suspension was rooted and Tesla paid for half and guy went to the govt and the rest is history, funny they didn’t make Tesla have a recall on suspension after investigating. basicaly the guy had been driving the car a lot on old dirt roads and after 120000 k something broke.

Sorry misspelt the. Web site  electrek.com

lee wrote on Apr 12^th, 2018 at 4:52pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 12th, 2018 at 4:17pm: so you're a troll that stands for nothing. Another jump to another really stupid conclusion. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

who cares what you think about electric cars. Tesla certainly doesn't and the chinese couldn't give a flying bugger either.

you live in a world of mediocrity and denial as if somehow your distorted beliefs of reality somehow matters.

Ok here is the numbers of recalls in USA from 2004. 2014 of the big 3
time com/45235/gm-recall-model-interactive/
Compared to other companies Tesla haven’t done to bad.
One broken steering arm broken and Tesla even agreed to pay half the price to fix in goodwill makes all thair cars rubbish according to Lee
Now half answer or change topic again lee hehe

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 12^th, 2018 at 7:47pm:

lee wrote on Apr 10th, 2018 at 2:26pm: Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 10th, 2018 at 11:25am: lee always resorts to using strawman fallacies whenever there is a discussion of renewable energy or electric cars Let's see - Tesla is the Manufacturer? - Yes Tesla has reported suspension problems? - Yes Tesla Model S up to end of 2016 have been recalled? - Yes The reported problems are corrosion of aluminium bolts from de-icing salts? Yes Some strawman. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D BTW - It was DonDeeHippy who introduced Tesla to the debate. ;) Ohh that’s so funny the way u say that the recall is suspension related. Its bolts that MIGHT break in cold weather from salt on the road on the power steering and if they fail will make the steering a bit heavier . The recall has nothing to do with the suspension.....

Oh, Well. You know how the media screw stuff up. And that must be my fault not theirs. ;)

I did notice  "Tesla determined it was normal because of the owner’s use – he lives on a long dirt road which put a strain on the vehicle after more than 70,000 miles."

Not because the road was rough, not because he was driving off road, but that it was a "dirt road".

Here in WA we have  lots of "dirt roads"; and generally lots of rough dirt roads. It doesn’t kill cars. That is generally the killer trees that jump in front of tired drivers. They kill  cars. ;)

lee wrote on Apr 12^th, 2018 at 8:12pm:

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 12th, 2018 at 7:47pm: lee wrote on Apr 10th, 2018 at 2:26pm: Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 10th, 2018 at 11:25am: lee always resorts to using strawman fallacies whenever there is a discussion of renewable energy or electric cars Let's see - Tesla is the Manufacturer? - Yes Tesla has reported suspension problems? - Yes Tesla Model S up to end of 2016 have been recalled? - Yes The reported problems are corrosion of aluminium bolts from de-icing salts? Yes Some strawman. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D BTW - It was DonDeeHippy who introduced Tesla to the debate. ;) Ohh that’s so funny the way u say that the recall is suspension related. Its bolts that MIGHT break in cold weather from salt on the road on the power steering and if they fail will make the steering a bit heavier . The recall has nothing to do with the suspension..... Oh, Well. You know how the media screw stuff up. And that must be my fault not theirs. ;) I did notice  "Tesla determined it was normal because of the owner’s use – he lives on a long dirt road which put a strain on the vehicle after more than 70,000 miles." Not because the road was rough, not because he was driving off road, but that it was a "dirt road". Here in WA we have  lots of "dirt roads"; and generally lots of rough dirt roads. It doesn’t kill cars. That is generally the killer trees that jump in front of tired drivers. They kill  cars. ;)

well that's a good reason for Tesla to close its production line down isn't it :D LOL

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 13^th, 2018 at 11:19am:

well that's a good reason for Tesla to close its production line down isn't it

You really that stupid?

No; but it is a reason for Tesla, if they are to continue making cars, is to make them robust enough to drive on dirt roads. Something that other car manufacturers seem to have little problem in doing.

I haven't heard it happening on a Volt or anything similar. It seems to be Tesla specific.

lee wrote on Apr 13^th, 2018 at 11:26am:

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 13th, 2018 at 11:19am: well that's a good reason for Tesla to close its production line down isn't it You really that stupid? No; but it is a reason for Tesla, if they are to continue making cars, is to make them robust enough to drive on dirt roads. Something that other car manufacturers seem to have little problem in doing. I haven't heard it happening on a Volt or anything similar. It seems to be Tesla specific.

how many people need to drive on dirt roads and who cares ??

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 13^th, 2018 at 12:05pm:

lee wrote on Apr 13th, 2018 at 11:26am: Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 13th, 2018 at 11:19am: well that's a good reason for Tesla to close its production line down isn't it You really that stupid? No; but it is a reason for Tesla, if they are to continue making cars, is to make them robust enough to drive on dirt roads. Something that other car manufacturers seem to have little problem in doing. I haven't heard it happening on a Volt or anything similar. It seems to be Tesla specific. how many people need to drive on dirt roads and who cares ??

I do to be honest, its really not the dirt road thing, its more the distance to charge thing.

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 13^th, 2018 at 12:05pm:

how many people need to drive on dirt roads and who cares ??

So you are now conceding that Teslas should only be highway driven and should not be driven on any roads with potholes.

Tesla will start making an SUV from late next year.

Tesla Model 3 production is ramping up:
https://robertscribbler.com/2018/04/09/tesla-model-3-production-keeps-ramping-higher-hitting-near-2400-per-week-in-early-april/

lee wrote on Apr 13^th, 2018 at 11:26am:

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 13th, 2018 at 11:19am: well that's a good reason for Tesla to close its production line down isn't it You really that stupid? No; but it is a reason for Tesla, if they are to continue making cars, is to make them robust enough to drive on dirt roads. Something that other car manufacturers seem to have little problem in doing. I haven't heard it happening on a Volt or anything similar. It seems to be Tesla specific.

Well one car breaking something after 14000 kms on rough roads isn’t really a robust issue. I think Tesla have made 300 - 400 thousand cars and one broke something.
Tesla haven’t had a accident yet from Shoddy workmanship or doggy parts look at recal info n the big 3in USA and see how many recalls they have from bad manufactured parts that have killed ppl and made accidents.
Hell driving a $15000 luxury heavy car on pothole ridden dirt roads no matter the manufacturer might break something after 140000 kms, just thinking.
I remember as a kid having a land cruiser wheel beating us after a pothole.

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Apr 13^th, 2018 at 12:06pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 13th, 2018 at 12:05pm: lee wrote on Apr 13th, 2018 at 11:26am: Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 13th, 2018 at 11:19am: well that's a good reason for Tesla to close its production line down isn't it You really that stupid? No; but it is a reason for Tesla, if they are to continue making cars, is to make them robust enough to drive on dirt roads. Something that other car manufacturers seem to have little problem in doing. I haven't heard it happening on a Volt or anything similar. It seems to be Tesla specific. how many people need to drive on dirt roads and who cares ?? I do to be honest, its really not the dirt road thing, its more the distance to charge thing.

BUT you aren't many people  ;D

lee wrote on Apr 13^th, 2018 at 1:50pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 13th, 2018 at 12:05pm: how many people need to drive on dirt roads and who cares ?? So you are now conceding that Teslas should only be highway driven and should not be driven on any roads with potholes.

He's conceding that most people don't need, or want, to drive on dirt roads!

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Apr 13^th, 2018 at 12:06pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 13th, 2018 at 12:05pm: lee wrote on Apr 13th, 2018 at 11:26am: Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 13th, 2018 at 11:19am: well that's a good reason for Tesla to close its production line down isn't it You really that stupid? No; but it is a reason for Tesla, if they are to continue making cars, is to make them robust enough to drive on dirt roads. Something that other car manufacturers seem to have little problem in doing. I haven't heard it happening on a Volt or anything similar. It seems to be Tesla specific. how many people need to drive on dirt roads and who cares ?? I do to be honest, its really not the dirt road thing, its more the distance to charge thing.

I think we all have horror stories of a car that is a lemon, I remember dad buying a ford bronco in the late 80’s and it have something major wrong with it almost every time he drove it.
Chevy with I think the nova realized it was cheeper  to pay out death insurance than fix the fuel tank.
Tesla has the highest customer satisfaction of any car manufacturer, if they where crap or not robust I don’t think this would be the case

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 12^th, 2018 at 8:10pm:

lee wrote on Apr 12th, 2018 at 4:52pm: Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 12th, 2018 at 4:17pm: so you're a troll that stands for nothing. Another jump to another really stupid conclusion. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D who cares what you think about electric cars. Tesla certainly doesn't and the chinese couldn't give a flying bugger either. you live in a world of mediocrity and denial as if somehow your distorted beliefs of reality somehow matters.

Any society needs a strong mediocrity: that is Nietzsche one oh one my dear child!


Any society needs a strong mediocrity: that is Nietzsche one oh one my dear child!

Any society needs a strong mediocrity: that is Nietzsche one oh one my dear child!


Any society needs a strong mediocrity: that is Nietzsche one oh one my dear child!

Any society needs a strong mediocrity: that is Nietzsche one oh one my dear child!


Any society needs a strong mediocrity: that is Nietzsche one oh one my dear child!


Any society needs a strong mediocrity: that is Nietzsche one oh one my dear child!


Any society needs a strong mediocrity: that is Nietzsche one oh one my dear child!i
;) ;)
Any society needs a strong mediocrity: that is Nietzsche one oh one my dear child!


Any society needs a strong mediocrity: that is Nietzsche one oh one my dear child!


:D :D :D

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 13^th, 2018 at 4:20pm:

Well one car breaking something after 14000 kms on rough roads isn’t really a robust issue.

So now it wasn't just a "dirt road" it was a "rough dirt road"?

14000kms? less than 9,000 miles. It doesn't look very robust to me. Even 14,000 km is less than 90,000 miles.


DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 13^th, 2018 at 4:20pm:

I remember as a kid having a land cruiser wheel beating us after a pothole.

How many KM had the Landcruiser done?

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 13^th, 2018 at 4:39pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Apr 13th, 2018 at 12:06pm: Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 13th, 2018 at 12:05pm: lee wrote on Apr 13th, 2018 at 11:26am: Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 13th, 2018 at 11:19am: well that's a good reason for Tesla to close its production line down isn't it You really that stupid? No; but it is a reason for Tesla, if they are to continue making cars, is to make them robust enough to drive on dirt roads. Something that other car manufacturers seem to have little problem in doing. I haven't heard it happening on a Volt or anything similar. It seems to be Tesla specific. how many people need to drive on dirt roads and who cares ?? I do to be honest, its really not the dirt road thing, its more the distance to charge thing. I think we all have horror stories of a car that is a lemon, I remember dad buying a ford bronco in the late 80’s and it have something major wrong with it almost every time he drove it. Chevy with I think the nova realized it was cheeper  to pay out death insurance than fix the fuel tank. Tesla has the highest customer satisfaction of any car manufacturer, if they where crap or not robust I don’t think this would be the case

->lee concedes Tesla is here to stay: game over I say!

TheFunPolice wrote on Apr 13^th, 2018 at 4:39pm:

He's conceding that most people don't need, or want, to drive on dirt roads!

So all people live in the city?  Or all Teslas are city cars only?

lee wrote on Apr 10^th, 2018 at 6:58pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 10th, 2018 at 6:24pm: and fossil fool cars don't have major recalls Yes they do. Generally not 100% of their car model sold. But does that make it better for Tesla? They have been hand-built. Not mass produced.

Hand built ?  R u serious. 36000 cars made this year 12000 a month by hand ? 140 robots and 10 of them the biggest in the world ( named after X Men, how cool) not mass produced,they have been the biggest seller of f luxury vehicals in USA last 2 years, so merc ,bmw and Lexus hand made too ? Last month biggest selling luxury model in Germany as well and all hand made ,
I suppose a few guys with a hammer and a grinder and a paint gun ahh Lee ?

lee wrote on Apr 13^th, 2018 at 4:47pm:

TheFunPolice wrote on Apr 13th, 2018 at 4:39pm: He's conceding that most people don't need, or want, to drive on dirt roads! So all people live in the city?  Or all Teslas are city cars only?

Most people live in the city!

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 13^th, 2018 at 4:39pm:

Chevy with I think the nova realized it was cheeper  to pay out death insurance than fix the fuel tank. Tesla has the highest customer satisfaction of any car manufacturer, if they where crap or not robust I don’t think this would be the case

Maybe that's why Tesla installed a shield to protect the battery pack from catching fire. ;)

TheFunPolice wrote on Apr 13^th, 2018 at 4:52pm:

lee wrote on Apr 13th, 2018 at 4:47pm: TheFunPolice wrote on Apr 13th, 2018 at 4:39pm: He's conceding that most people don't need, or want, to drive on dirt roads! So all people live in the city?  Or all Teslas are city cars only? Most people live in the city!

So they are selling city cars only. Got it. ;)

TheFunPolice wrote on Apr 13^th, 2018 at 4:45pm:

->lee concedes Tesla is here to stay: game over I say!

As I said earlier they have to up their game.

Too bad you can't comprehend. ;)

lee wrote on Apr 13^th, 2018 at 4:53pm:

TheFunPolice wrote on Apr 13th, 2018 at 4:52pm: lee wrote on Apr 13th, 2018 at 4:47pm: TheFunPolice wrote on Apr 13th, 2018 at 4:39pm: He's conceding that most people don't need, or want, to drive on dirt roads! So all people live in the city?  Or all Teslas are city cars only? Most people live in the city! So they are selling city cars only. Got it. ;)

Draw whatever f'd upped conclusions you think you can: I just said what I said!

lee wrote on Apr 13^th, 2018 at 4:55pm:

TheFunPolice wrote on Apr 13th, 2018 at 4:45pm: ->lee concedes Tesla is here to stay: game over I say! As I said earlier they have to up their game. Too bad you can't comprehend. ;)

A price point is a price point: who cares what you think?

TheFunPolice wrote on Apr 13^th, 2018 at 4:57pm:

A price point is a price point: who cares what you think?

Yes. And a $100k price point is far above the Hyundai price point.

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 13^th, 2018 at 11:19am:

lee wrote on Apr 12th, 2018 at 8:12pm: DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 12th, 2018 at 7:47pm: lee wrote on Apr 10th, 2018 at 2:26pm: Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 10th, 2018 at 11:25am: lee always resorts to using strawman fallacies whenever there is a discussion of renewable energy or electric cars Let's see - Tesla is the Manufacturer? - Yes Tesla has reported suspension problems? - Yes Tesla Model S up to end of 2016 have been recalled? - Yes The reported problems are corrosion of aluminium bolts from de-icing salts? Yes Some strawman. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D BTW - It was DonDeeHippy who introduced Tesla to the debate. ;) Ohh that’s so funny the way u say that the recall is suspension related. Its bolts that MIGHT break in cold weather from salt on the road on the power steering and if they fail will make the steering a bit heavier . The recall has nothing to do with the suspension..... Oh, Well. You know how the media screw stuff up. And that must be my fault not theirs. ;) I did notice  "Tesla determined it was normal because of the owner’s use – he lives on a long dirt road which put a strain on the vehicle after more than 70,000 miles." Not because the road was rough, not because he was driving off road, but that it was a "dirt road". Here in WA we have  lots of "dirt roads"; and generally lots of rough dirt roads. It doesn’t kill cars. That is generally the killer trees that jump in front of tired drivers. They kill  cars. ;) well that's a good reason for Tesla to close its production line down isn't it :D LOL

Ahh not 140000 kms about 116000kms or 70000 miles, even if best dirt road it’s one car out of 300000.
Do u really think no big manufacturer of cars has had a part break on any of thair cars and if they did they should close down becouse of quality ?
Or as u say if they r serious they should make thair cars more robust.

lee wrote on Apr 13^th, 2018 at 5:00pm:

TheFunPolice wrote on Apr 13th, 2018 at 4:57pm: A price point is a price point: who cares what you think? Yes. And a $100k price point is far above the Hyundai price point.

They compete against merc and bmw and Lexus not Hyundai

Hyundai is a lot more expensive than a push bike...... ohh Wait they aren’t competing against push bikes

Both go down dirt roads hmmmm, damn Tesla cost a lot more than mountain bikes and a Tesla is more expensive than my Dunlop vollies  and they go down dirt roads

lee wrote on Apr 13^th, 2018 at 4:52pm:

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 13th, 2018 at 4:39pm: Chevy with I think the nova realized it was cheeper  to pay out death insurance than fix the fuel tank. Tesla has the highest customer satisfaction of any car manufacturer, if they where crap or not robust I don’t think this would be the case Maybe that's why Tesla installed a shield to protect the battery pack from catching fire. ;)

If it was General Motors they wouldn’t have put in a shield becouse death insurance would be cheeper

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 13^th, 2018 at 4:51pm:

Hand built ?  R u serious. 36000 cars made this year 12000 a month by hand ? 140 robots and 10 of them the biggest in the world ( named after X Men, how cool) not mass produced,they have been the biggest seller of f luxury vehicals in USA last 2 years, so merc ,bmw and Lexus hand made too ? Last month biggest selling luxury model in Germany as well and all hand made , I suppose a few guys with a hammer and a grinder and a paint gun ahh Lee ?

Yep. I was wrong.

How about you supply references to you claims.

Seems Model 3 production is ramping up.

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2018-tesla-tracker/

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 13^th, 2018 at 5:10pm:

If it was General Motors they wouldn’t have put in a shield becouse death insurance would be cheeper

Another assertion without link. If death insurance was initially cheaper, the fatalities would soon ensure a steep rise in premiums. ;)

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 13^th, 2018 at 5:08pm:

They compete against merc and bmw and Lexus not Hyundai Hyundai is a lot more expensive than a push bike...... ohh Wait they aren’t competing against push bikes Both go down dirt roads hmmmm, damn Tesla cost a lot more than mountain bikes and a Tesla is more expensive than my Dunlop vollies  and they go down dirt roads

So they should then be not only cost comparative, but build safety comparative. ;)

lee wrote on Apr 13^th, 2018 at 5:00pm:

TheFunPolice wrote on Apr 13th, 2018 at 4:57pm: A price point is a price point: who cares what you think? Yes. And a $100k price point is far above the Hyundai price point.

Yeh, well take it or leave it buddy!

TheFunPolice wrote on Apr 13^th, 2018 at 6:02pm:

Yeh, well take it or leave it buddy!

I will leave it on the showroom floor. Thanks for coming.

lee wrote on Apr 13^th, 2018 at 6:13pm:

TheFunPolice wrote on Apr 13th, 2018 at 6:02pm: Yeh, well take it or leave it buddy! I will leave it on the showroom floor. Thanks for coming.

Who are you congratulating for coming?

You're a dead set tripper mate  :D

*** Must be why you voted to give the kids of this once proud nation copper internet in the asian century we actually built!

  ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)

TheFunPolice wrote on Apr 13^th, 2018 at 6:27pm:

Who are you congratulating for coming?

O, you didn't come? Change hands try harder.

lee wrote on Apr 13^th, 2018 at 1:50pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 13th, 2018 at 12:05pm: how many people need to drive on dirt roads and who cares ?? So you are now conceding that Teslas should only be highway driven and should not be driven on any roads with potholes.

I'm sure the autobahn has lots of potholes too :D LOL

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 13^th, 2018 at 6:50pm:

I'm sure the autobahn has lots of potholes too

Then it would appear that Teslas are on a hiding to nothing.

lee wrote on Apr 13^th, 2018 at 5:18pm:

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 13th, 2018 at 5:10pm: If it was General Motors they wouldn’t have put in a shield becouse death insurance would be cheeper Another assertion without link. If death insurance was initially cheaper, the fatalities would soon ensure a steep rise in premiums. ;)

Yeah it was the ford pinto I was thinking of
m.wikibooks.org/wiki/Professionalism/The_Ford_Pinto_Gas_Tank_Controversy

lee wrote on Apr 13^th, 2018 at 5:21pm:

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 13th, 2018 at 5:08pm: They compete against merc and bmw and Lexus not Hyundai Hyundai is a lot more expensive than a push bike...... ohh Wait they aren’t competing against push bikes Both go down dirt roads hmmmm, damn Tesla cost a lot more than mountain bikes and a Tesla is more expensive than my Dunlop vollies  and they go down dirt roads So they should then be not only cost comparative, but build safety comparative. ;)

USA govt safety link to 5 star rating notice model x is same
.nhtsa.gov/vehicle/2017/TESLA/MODEL%252520X%252520P100D/SUV/AWD#safety-ratings-side
No investigations on either car, top safety rating I’m not sure what else u need

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 13^th, 2018 at 6:50pm:

lee wrote on Apr 13th, 2018 at 1:50pm: Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 13th, 2018 at 12:05pm: how many people need to drive on dirt roads and who cares ?? So you are now conceding that Teslas should only be highway driven and should not be driven on any roads with potholes. I'm sure the autobahn has lots of potholes too :D LOL

So only operated in Germany and never in countries like Australia which does not have an Autobahn.

Hey Bighole. This one is for you and lee. fossil fool junk at it finest :D LOL

http://www.destroymyjeep.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/destroy_my_jeep-banner-2.jpg

http://www.destroymyjeep.com/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVM3QX2GPjQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLcvE1foO64


Quote:

DESTROY MY JEEP Have you ever bought a new vehicle that has let you down so badly, you just don’t trust it any more? We decided, after 22 issues and nearly 4 years of relentless emails, meetings and legal costs, to give up requesting a full refund or replacement from the Jeep dealer or Fiat Chrysler Group Australia. They’ve made it very clear to me that the law doesn’t say they “have to” replace or refund a vehicle with this many problems in Australia. THERE’S NO LAW STOPPING A COMPANY DOING THE RIGHT THING AND I GAVE THE JEEP DEALER AND FIAT CHRYSLER GROUP AUSTRALIA PLENTY OF OPPORTUNITIES TO DO THE RIGHT THING AND REPLACE THE VEHICLE OR REFUND OUR MONEY. I decided to partly crowd-fund the destruction of our $49,000 Jeep Cherokee. And we did it for 3 reasons 1. It’s been the most unreliable car we have EVER owned. 2. I don’t think it’s right to sell our defective car onto someone else 3. I have been approached by many of you in the same situation as us, so I hope our action will force the government to review the current Australian Consumer Law and introduce a “Lemon Law” like the one that has been in the USA since the 1970’s, that protects consumers from defective vehicles. I raised $18,956 through Kickstarter from people who wanted to get involved in the total destruction of my Jeep and help me “make a point” I owed $28k on finance on the vehicle, so I personally paid out that $10,000 gap. I also spent a few thousand dollars on the campaign and event to raise awareness. We also raised $265 on the day through gold coin donation, coffees and a sausage sizzle, which has been donated to the National Breast Cancer Foundation. My Jeep is now in thousands of pieces, some of which are burned beyond recognition, some are six foot underground where we burried it, and some pieces have been sent to sponsors and supporters all over Australia for them to show off to their customers and friends. This campaign will continue until the law is changed, or manufacturers and importers are being seen to be doing the right thing. We are considering running future events like this, so if you have a lemon vehicle and have tried all the normal ways to get a resolution, we might just line your car up next for you… (we’ll keep the fire stoked for you) All of this is funded by me, so any donations to help with the costs of hosting, printing of flyers/petitions and time taken out of my own business would be very appreciated. Get all the latest updates at www.facebook.com/destroymyjeep Sincerely, Ashton and Vanessa Wood

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 14^th, 2018 at 12:56am:

Hey Bighole. This one is for you and lee. fossil fool junk at it finest :D LOL

Is your environmentally friendly urban transporter still your pride and joy?

---

A interesting article on the claims that oil refineries use  more electricity to make gas and diesel than a electric car would use to go the same distance. It seams very well thought out and looks at many possibilities.

greentransportation_info/energy-transportation/gasoline-costs-6kwh.html

So it looks like if we closed down oil refineries and used the electricity to power cars instead we would be using less resources

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 14^th, 2018 at 7:44am:

A interesting article on the claims that oil refineries use  more electricity to make gas and diesel than a electric car would use to go the same distance. It seams very well thought out and looks at many possibilities. greentransportation_info/energy-transportation/gasoline-costs-6kwh.html So it looks like if we closed down oil refineries and used the electricity to power cars instead we would be using less resources

not to mention transporting the crude across the globe by filthy polluting deisel powered ships. Hardly call that energy efficient !!

BigOl64 wrote on Apr 14^th, 2018 at 3:06am:

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 12:56am: Hey Bighole. This one is for you and lee. fossil fool junk at it finest :D LOL Is your environmentally friendly urban transporter still your pride and joy?

and you enjoy your jeep bighole :D LOL

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3031427/I-m-sorry-bought-Jeep-Man-destroyed-49-000-car-company-refused-refund-fault-ridden-vehicle-issues-mock-apology-company.html

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/04/09/04/2763623200000578-3031427-Ashton_Wood_issued_this_apology_to_Jeep_after_the_car_company_re-a-2_1428550590048.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/10/04/1412405241262_wps_9_smashed_jeep_Ashton_Wood_.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/10/04/1412405250023_wps_10_smashed_jeep.jpg

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 14^th, 2018 at 7:44am:

So it looks like if we closed down oil refineries and used the electricity to power cars instead we would be using less resources

So we should use intermittent electricity to power hospitals, as well as cars?

Hey lee, what a great fossil fool car for you to own. Sooooooo reliable :D LOL

https://s1.cdn.autoevolution.com/images/news/jeep-lemon-makes-owner-create-destroy-my-jeep-kickstarter-project-video-82408_2.png

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/jeep-lemon-makes-owner-create-destroy-my-jeep-kickstarter-project-video-82408.html

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 13^th, 2018 at 11:22pm:

No investigations on either car, top safety rating I’m not sure what else u need

I don't need anything from Tesla; that's for sure.

You don't think product recalls are a safety issue? ::)

lee wrote on Apr 14^th, 2018 at 12:30pm:

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 13th, 2018 at 11:22pm: No investigations on either car, top safety rating I’m not sure what else u need I don't need anything from Tesla; that's for sure. You don't think product recalls are a safety issue? ::)

And the jeep gets the tick of approval for safety and reliability :D LOL

---

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 14^th, 2018 at 12:50pm:

And the jeep gets the tick of approval for safety and reliability

Does it? That shows how ridiculous the safety standards are.

http://www.ancap.com.au/safety-ratings/jeep/compass/153ec9

lee wrote on Apr 14^th, 2018 at 1:10pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 12:50pm: And the jeep gets the tick of approval for safety and reliability Does it? That shows how ridiculous the safety standards are. http://www.ancap.com.au/safety-ratings/jeep/compass/153ec9

Nothing like the reliability and safety of a fossil fool powered car eh ;)

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 14^th, 2018 at 1:16pm:

Nothing like the reliability and safety of a fossil fool powered car eh

It is the same rating agency that does the EV's. So your point is? ;)

lee wrote on Apr 14^th, 2018 at 1:43pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 1:16pm: Nothing like the reliability and safety of a fossil fool powered car eh It is the same rating agency that does the EV's. So your point is? ;)

My point is that you have no point !

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 14^th, 2018 at 6:56pm:

My point is that you have no point !

So ancap ratings don't count?

Both have 5 stars. But according to you one is a dog. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

lee wrote on Apr 14^th, 2018 at 12:28pm:

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 7:44am: So it looks like if we closed down oil refineries and used the electricity to power cars instead we would be using less resources So we should use intermittent electricity to power hospitals, as well as cars?

A typical greenie, shut down the refineries save money of putting fuel in cars.

Ignore the fact that pretty much everything we manufacture including electric cars relies on chemicals derived from long strands of hydrocarbons.

Then there is medicines, but fkk it we want to save money on not buy fuels


The capacity for any thought or intelligent reason is an absolute anathema with fkking socialists

BigOl64 wrote on Apr 14^th, 2018 at 7:37pm:

lee wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 12:28pm: DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 7:44am: So it looks like if we closed down oil refineries and used the electricity to power cars instead we would be using less resources So we should use intermittent electricity to power hospitals, as well as cars? A typical greenie, shut down the refineries save money of putting fuel in cars. Ignore the fact that pretty much everything we manufacture including electric cars relies on chemicals derived from long strands of hydrocarbons. Then there is medicines, but fkk it we want to save money on not buy fuels The capacity for any thought or intelligent reason is an absolute anathema with fkking socialists

and then when it all runs out one day after most of it has been blown out of a tail pipe or disposed of into landfill and the ocean as useless plastic garbage, then what do you do bighole ? run back to the caves or anticipate that day by looking for alternatives which you deadbeat libbos just don't want anyone else to look to hard for ??

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 15^th, 2018 at 12:18am:

BigOl64 wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 7:37pm: lee wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 12:28pm: DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 7:44am: So it looks like if we closed down oil refineries and used the electricity to power cars instead we would be using less resources So we should use intermittent electricity to power hospitals, as well as cars? A typical greenie, shut down the refineries save money of putting fuel in cars. Ignore the fact that pretty much everything we manufacture including electric cars relies on chemicals derived from long strands of hydrocarbons. Then there is medicines, but fkk it we want to save money on not buy fuels The capacity for any thought or intelligent reason is an absolute anathema with fkking socialists and then when it all runs out one day after most of it has been blown out of a tail pipe or disposed of into landfill and the ocean as useless plastic garbage, then what do you do bighole ? run back to the caves or anticipate that day by looking for alternatives which you deadbeat libbos just don't want anyone else to look to hard for ??

Ha ha u 2 crack me up if you bully me into your point u think ill see your point of view..... the article states it cost more in electricity to make petrol and diesel than it does to directly power a electric vehicle I really don't know what that has to do with both of your tirades.
But I do sense your fears and having to strike out at the unknown and u have me pity.
I'm not really sure if u know what a socialist is, but I don't think I've ever said I think we should all sell our vehicles and car pool or any other socialist idea's,
I do worry about poisons being poured into the air and I don't like the idea of giving the middle east boat loads of money and I don't like waste in general but socialist ??????

So when u guys can be civil and actually come up with civil thoughts i'll start listening