I'd like to know how and why you became a Muslim.

Are you a 1st gen Aussie born into a Muslim family?

I'd like to hear about your personal journey. (It doesn't have to be detailed).

Why?

I don't have the opportunity to ask the few Muslims I do know.

Better make it detailed, G. FD will have supplimentaries.

Oh boy, here we go. The angel Gabriel came to him just like his hero Mohammed.

issuevoter wrote on Sep 26^th, 2015 at 7:08pm:

Oh boy, here we go. The angel Gabriel came to him just like his hero Mohammed.

Hmmm.

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 26^th, 2015 at 8:02am:

I'd like to know how and why you became a Muslim. Are you a 1st gen Aussie born into a Muslim family? I'd like to hear about your personal journey. (It doesn't have to be detailed). Why? I don't have the opportunity to ask the few Muslims I do know.

Thank you Lisa for your interest.

Firstly, I was not born into a muslim family, I am of anglo-Scotish heritage - from a non-religious protestant background.

I was introduced to Islam by a friend, who later became my wife. For most of my life I have believed in God. I dabbled in atheism for a brief period but quickly came to the conclusion that I was lying to myself.

I always had difficulty with christian doctrine - to me it seemed unnecessarily convoluted: why was there 3 parts to God, and why was it only possible to communicate with God through his Son (whose not really is "son" but an inextricable part of the single entity of God). And most confusing of all - why was it necessary for God to perform a blood sacrifice of "himself" before mankind was eligible for salvation?

And then I discovered Islam - which offers a far simpler explanation of God - He doesn't consist of different components which may or may not be separate depending on which theologian you talk to - he does not need an intermediary to communicate through, and there is no complicated blood sacrifice that enables the salvation of mankind. Just God on his own, and prophets to deliver his message.

So I guess in summary I see my journey into Islam in two parts: first I have a belief in God and his creation of mankind and his plan for mankind. That is innate, completely separate to any religious doctrine. And once you (or at least 'I') have this starting point, you then go about looking at which religious doctrine best explains the nature of God and His plan and the meaning of life. And for me it is Islam.   

issuevoter wrote on Sep 26^th, 2015 at 7:08pm:

Oh boy, here we go. The angel Gabriel came to him just like his hero Mohammed.

If you have nothing to contribute, why do you bother posting?

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 26^th, 2015 at 8:08pm:

I am of anglo-Scotish heritage - from a non-religious protestant background.

that is a surprise  ...

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 26^th, 2015 at 8:08pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 26th, 2015 at 8:02am: I'd like to know how and why you became a Muslim. Are you a 1st gen Aussie born into a Muslim family? I'd like to hear about your personal journey. (It doesn't have to be detailed). Why? I don't have the opportunity to ask the few Muslims I do know. Thank you Lisa for your interest. Firstly, I was not born into a muslim family, I am of anglo-Scotish heritage - from a non-religious protestant background. I was introduced to Islam by a friend, who later became my wife. For most of my life I have believed in God. I dabbled in atheism for a brief period but quickly came to the conclusion that I was lying to myself. I always had difficulty with christian doctrine - to me it seemed unnecessarily convoluted: why was there 3 parts to God, and why was it only possible to communicate with God through his Son (whose not really is "son" but an inextricable part of the single entity of God). And most confusing of all - why was it necessary for God to perform a blood sacrifice of "himself" before mankind was eligible for salvation? And then I discovered Islam - which offers a far simpler explanation of God - He doesn't consist of different components which may or may not be separate depending on which theologian you talk to - he does not need an intermediary to communicate through, and there is no complicated blood sacrifice that enables the salvation of mankind. Just God on his own, and prophets to deliver his message. So I guess in summary I see my journey into Islam in two parts: first I have a belief in God and his creation of mankind and his plan for mankind. That is innate, completely separate to any religious doctrine. And once you (or at least 'I') have this starting point, you then go about looking at which religious doctrine best explains the nature of God and His plan and the meaning of life. And for me it is Islam.

thanks for your direct answer Gandalf.

your questions are all pretty readily answered in any bible.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Sep 26^th, 2015 at 8:48pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 26th, 2015 at 8:08pm: Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 26th, 2015 at 8:02am: I'd like to know how and why you became a Muslim. Are you a 1st gen Aussie born into a Muslim family? I'd like to hear about your personal journey. (It doesn't have to be detailed). Why? I don't have the opportunity to ask the few Muslims I do know. Thank you Lisa for your interest. Firstly, I was not born into a muslim family, I am of anglo-Scotish heritage - from a non-religious protestant background. I was introduced to Islam by a friend, who later became my wife. For most of my life I have believed in God. I dabbled in atheism for a brief period but quickly came to the conclusion that I was lying to myself. I always had difficulty with christian doctrine - to me it seemed unnecessarily convoluted: why was there 3 parts to God, and why was it only possible to communicate with God through his Son (whose not really is "son" but an inextricable part of the single entity of God). And most confusing of all - why was it necessary for God to perform a blood sacrifice of "himself" before mankind was eligible for salvation? And then I discovered Islam - which offers a far simpler explanation of God - He doesn't consist of different components which may or may not be separate depending on which theologian you talk to - he does not need an intermediary to communicate through, and there is no complicated blood sacrifice that enables the salvation of mankind. Just God on his own, and prophets to deliver his message. So I guess in summary I see my journey into Islam in two parts: first I have a belief in God and his creation of mankind and his plan for mankind. That is innate, completely separate to any religious doctrine. And once you (or at least 'I') have this starting point, you then go about looking at which religious doctrine best explains the nature of God and His plan and the meaning of life. And for me it is Islam.    thanks for your direct answer Gandalf. your questions are all pretty readily answered in any bible.

Maybe you could quote the passages on the trinity, Sprint. We might turn G around.

Would Gandalf fight for Australia against a Muslim country if he had to?

double plus good wrote on Sep 26^th, 2015 at 9:07pm:

Would Gandalf fight for Australia against a Muslim country if he had to?

Would Homo?

I was born into a muslim family, I am of arab heritage - from a religious islamic background.

I was introduced to Christianity by a friend, who also later became my wife. For most of my life I have believed in God also. I looked at atheism also for a period and also came to the conclusion that I was lying to myself.

I always had difficulty with the islamic doctrine - well to me it seemed that it was plaigiarised from christianity: why was Judas on the Cross, not Christ, and why was ishmael going to be sacrificed and not isaac, it seemd like they were angry and needed to just twist what was already done. Mohammed to me wasn't a holy man any one could see that and allah who was suppossed to be god always rewarded people with carnal pleasures. Then historically looking at it I found there was no basis or evidence at all that mohammed even existed nor the quran about 100 years after he's so called purported death. I was under threat of violence if I left Islam as its good book states and no one I knew truly had innerpeace. Even the science in the book claimed to be true was incorrect and clearly written by some human and not a god because it was wrong. Even all the rituals were stolen from other pagan religions of the day.

And then I met a missionary in my country who was a lovely person. She explained to me Jesus and why he needed to die for our sins. I had many questions. Since mankind chose to sin against God and they knew the wages of sin was death then each man simply needed to pay that debt since they ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. God in his love sent his only Son as a sacrifice for all mankind to filled that sacrifice to show how much he loved mankind. As a true loving God would. Then after Jesus rose from the dead and conquered death and sin God's Holy Spirit came into the world and now dwells inside every Christian as  Comforter and Guide and healer bringing peace that surpasses understanding. He knocks at the door of every mans heart thus being the nature of God and if he is rejected as the truth will not enter. The trinity isn't that hard for me at all. God the Father, His Son , The Holy Spirit are simply all one in Spirit. Thus all 3 persons making up one Godhead all agreeable. This is more like a real God than an angry God who demands someone pray for every single action they make invading every single part of their lives like islam tries to do to demand adherence 24/7 which no one really can and tread down on women and the weak which is what it does. When I became a Christian I challenged God and He made himself real to me and His spirit entered me. With His spirit came great peace and understanding and guidance in all aspects of my life. Sure we still stuff up but at least we have salvation and god understands.

Islam to me was salvation through threats of an angry god if you never did what he said.That made no sense since we naturally want to sin. Heaven and hell make perfect sense given the spiritual nature of the beings involved. Prophetically even the bible last prophecies are being fulfilled to this day.

So my journey into Christianity goes like this compared to yours ironically. I have a belief in God and his creation of mankind and his plan for mankind also. That is innate, completely separate to any religious doctrine also. And once you (or at least 'I') have this starting point, you then go about looking at which religious doctrine best explains the nature of God and His plan and the meaning of life. And for me it is was Christianity. In my case it was the Holy Spirits infiltration and infilling that really drove home the Spirit of God. The closest way a real God can be with you is to intwine His spirit with yours and thats what He does. For the wicked they need to listen to that small still voice and accept His offer of salvation in the heart and thats it. Free and too easy. Then once His spirit comes in you desire to strive to live a loving helpful life shining a light into everyone elses so they too can be spiritually set free.

As opposed to Islam which just seemed fanatical to me in adherence with no spirituality what so ever nor inner peace, I looked at Hinduism, Buddhism, Shintoism and a cult or two and looking back now I can see the Evil Spiritual forces at work in some including islam. Islam failed the worst because of its real hatred of others and the way it tried to make out allah was Abrahams God. allah has no son and the prophets foretold God's Son that negates the islammic claim of the so called allah being the one true god.


-----

Now at this point does anyone really believe me here ?
A good part of that post was true. Which part I bet you can't guess.

Your answer to yourself makes my point.




Lets face it.

Ask a muslim how they became muslim. 99% (truthfully) will say born into it as that is where 99% growth comes from. But it seems we here have struck Gold it seems. One that wasn't of Arabic Descent and looked at all other religions and decides yes Islam was the one because it was so smart and makes so much sense. Not to mention the usual Atheism sucks and we must mention our arch rival Christianity and of course that totally sucks lol. Both have more basis for belief both theoretically,historically and scientifically than the story of islam. Ask any homosexual they will tell you they were born that way even if they decided they just liked it more in their twenties whilst smoking dope.

I could have believed this if he said yes my family was Islamic but as I grew up and started thinking for myself I studied blah blah did this and came to this conclusion.

The old I was one of you and turned after looking at everyone else chestnut pfft. That was coming a mile off.

Seriously, how gullible do we post.

I can't believe the OP never saw that coming, or maybe they did.

Karnal wrote on Sep 26^th, 2015 at 9:16pm:

double plus good wrote on Sep 26th, 2015 at 9:07pm: Would Gandalf fight for Australia against a Muslim country if he had to? Would Homo?

Could Homo?   ::)

Karnal wrote on Sep 26^th, 2015 at 9:04pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Sep 26th, 2015 at 8:48pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 26th, 2015 at 8:08pm: Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 26th, 2015 at 8:02am: I'd like to know how and why you became a Muslim. Are you a 1st gen Aussie born into a Muslim family? I'd like to hear about your personal journey. (It doesn't have to be detailed). Why? I don't have the opportunity to ask the few Muslims I do know. Thank you Lisa for your interest. Firstly, I was not born into a muslim family, I am of anglo-Scotish heritage - from a non-religious protestant background. I was introduced to Islam by a friend, who later became my wife. For most of my life I have believed in God. I dabbled in atheism for a brief period but quickly came to the conclusion that I was lying to myself. I always had difficulty with christian doctrine - to me it seemed unnecessarily convoluted: why was there 3 parts to God, and why was it only possible to communicate with God through his Son (whose not really is "son" but an inextricable part of the single entity of God). And most confusing of all - why was it necessary for God to perform a blood sacrifice of "himself" before mankind was eligible for salvation? And then I discovered Islam - which offers a far simpler explanation of God - He doesn't consist of different components which may or may not be separate depending on which theologian you talk to - he does not need an intermediary to communicate through, and there is no complicated blood sacrifice that enables the salvation of mankind. Just God on his own, and prophets to deliver his message. So I guess in summary I see my journey into Islam in two parts: first I have a belief in God and his creation of mankind and his plan for mankind. That is innate, completely separate to any religious doctrine. And once you (or at least 'I') have this starting point, you then go about looking at which religious doctrine best explains the nature of God and His plan and the meaning of life. And for me it is Islam.    thanks for your direct answer Gandalf. your questions are all pretty readily answered in any bible. Maybe you could quote the passages on the trinity, Sprint. We might turn G around.

He wont answer it because there is no concept of trinity in the bible, its a man made concept.

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 26^th, 2015 at 9:27pm:

Karnal wrote on Sep 26th, 2015 at 9:16pm: double plus good wrote on Sep 26th, 2015 at 9:07pm: Would Gandalf fight for Australia against a Muslim country if he had to? Would Homo? Could Homo?   ::)

Prickley question hey??? Be good if I could get an answer. Second thoughts, I know the answer.

Karnal wrote on Sep 26^th, 2015 at 9:04pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Sep 26th, 2015 at 8:48pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 26th, 2015 at 8:08pm: Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 26th, 2015 at 8:02am: I'd like to know how and why you became a Muslim. Are you a 1st gen Aussie born into a Muslim family? I'd like to hear about your personal journey. (It doesn't have to be detailed). Why? I don't have the opportunity to ask the few Muslims I do know. Thank you Lisa for your interest. Firstly, I was not born into a muslim family, I am of anglo-Scotish heritage - from a non-religious protestant background. I was introduced to Islam by a friend, who later became my wife. For most of my life I have believed in God. I dabbled in atheism for a brief period but quickly came to the conclusion that I was lying to myself. I always had difficulty with christian doctrine - to me it seemed unnecessarily convoluted: why was there 3 parts to God, and why was it only possible to communicate with God through his Son (whose not really is "son" but an inextricable part of the single entity of God). And most confusing of all - why was it necessary for God to perform a blood sacrifice of "himself" before mankind was eligible for salvation? And then I discovered Islam - which offers a far simpler explanation of God - He doesn't consist of different components which may or may not be separate depending on which theologian you talk to - he does not need an intermediary to communicate through, and there is no complicated blood sacrifice that enables the salvation of mankind. Just God on his own, and prophets to deliver his message. So I guess in summary I see my journey into Islam in two parts: first I have a belief in God and his creation of mankind and his plan for mankind. That is innate, completely separate to any religious doctrine. And once you (or at least 'I') have this starting point, you then go about looking at which religious doctrine best explains the nature of God and His plan and the meaning of life. And for me it is Islam.    thanks for your direct answer Gandalf. your questions are all pretty readily answered in any bible. Maybe you could quote the passages on the trinity, Sprint. We might turn G around.

there are many quotes to explain it.

seek and ye shall find

Give em a hint sprint they seem like they need a hand. The original texts weren't in English. Shocking I know.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Sep 26^th, 2015 at 9:46pm:

Karnal wrote on Sep 26th, 2015 at 9:04pm: Sprintcyclist wrote on Sep 26th, 2015 at 8:48pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 26th, 2015 at 8:08pm: Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 26th, 2015 at 8:02am: I'd like to know how and why you became a Muslim. Are you a 1st gen Aussie born into a Muslim family? I'd like to hear about your personal journey. (It doesn't have to be detailed). Why? I don't have the opportunity to ask the few Muslims I do know. Thank you Lisa for your interest. Firstly, I was not born into a muslim family, I am of anglo-Scotish heritage - from a non-religious protestant background. I was introduced to Islam by a friend, who later became my wife. For most of my life I have believed in God. I dabbled in atheism for a brief period but quickly came to the conclusion that I was lying to myself. I always had difficulty with christian doctrine - to me it seemed unnecessarily convoluted: why was there 3 parts to God, and why was it only possible to communicate with God through his Son (whose not really is "son" but an inextricable part of the single entity of God). And most confusing of all - why was it necessary for God to perform a blood sacrifice of "himself" before mankind was eligible for salvation? And then I discovered Islam - which offers a far simpler explanation of God - He doesn't consist of different components which may or may not be separate depending on which theologian you talk to - he does not need an intermediary to communicate through, and there is no complicated blood sacrifice that enables the salvation of mankind. Just God on his own, and prophets to deliver his message. So I guess in summary I see my journey into Islam in two parts: first I have a belief in God and his creation of mankind and his plan for mankind. That is innate, completely separate to any religious doctrine. And once you (or at least 'I') have this starting point, you then go about looking at which religious doctrine best explains the nature of God and His plan and the meaning of life. And for me it is Islam.    thanks for your direct answer Gandalf. your questions are all pretty readily answered in any bible. Maybe you could quote the passages on the trinity, Sprint. We might turn G around. there are many quotes to explain it. seek and ye shall find

No, I've looked. Where does the Bible discuss the trinity?

wally1 wrote on Sep 26^th, 2015 at 9:31pm:

Karnal wrote on Sep 26th, 2015 at 9:04pm: Sprintcyclist wrote on Sep 26th, 2015 at 8:48pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 26th, 2015 at 8:08pm: Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 26th, 2015 at 8:02am: I'd like to know how and why you became a Muslim. Are you a 1st gen Aussie born into a Muslim family? I'd like to hear about your personal journey. (It doesn't have to be detailed). Why? I don't have the opportunity to ask the few Muslims I do know. Thank you Lisa for your interest. Firstly, I was not born into a muslim family, I am of anglo-Scotish heritage - from a non-religious protestant background. I was introduced to Islam by a friend, who later became my wife. For most of my life I have believed in God. I dabbled in atheism for a brief period but quickly came to the conclusion that I was lying to myself. I always had difficulty with christian doctrine - to me it seemed unnecessarily convoluted: why was there 3 parts to God, and why was it only possible to communicate with God through his Son (whose not really is "son" but an inextricable part of the single entity of God). And most confusing of all - why was it necessary for God to perform a blood sacrifice of "himself" before mankind was eligible for salvation? And then I discovered Islam - which offers a far simpler explanation of God - He doesn't consist of different components which may or may not be separate depending on which theologian you talk to - he does not need an intermediary to communicate through, and there is no complicated blood sacrifice that enables the salvation of mankind. Just God on his own, and prophets to deliver his message. So I guess in summary I see my journey into Islam in two parts: first I have a belief in God and his creation of mankind and his plan for mankind. That is innate, completely separate to any religious doctrine. And once you (or at least 'I') have this starting point, you then go about looking at which religious doctrine best explains the nature of God and His plan and the meaning of life. And for me it is Islam.    thanks for your direct answer Gandalf. your questions are all pretty readily answered in any bible. Maybe you could quote the passages on the trinity, Sprint. We might turn G around. He wont answer it because there is no concept of trinity in the bible, its a man made concept.

All concepts are. I thought the trinity was created at the Council of Nicea. I can't find any of it in the Bible.

Maybe Sprint can point us in the right direction.

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 26^th, 2015 at 8:09pm:

issuevoter wrote on Sep 26th, 2015 at 7:08pm: Oh boy, here we go. The angel Gabriel came to him just like his hero Mohammed. If you have nothing to contribute, why do you bother posting?

Nothing to contribute?

First of all, the OP does not ask me for a contribution, it asks you. I made a comment on that request, and in so doing I ridicule your pathetic interpretation of reality. But you obfuscate. You know very well that to be a Muslim you have to accept Mohammed as the messenger of God. That is your shared psychotic delusion; the one that justifies suicide bombers.

Does any of that matter when not even one of your words is sincere?  You are happy to use Western Objectivity only when it suits you, just as all Muslims use the institutions of our liberal and pluralistic society against itself. We have seen it time and time again as your brothers feign Western ways only to turn on the people around them because they are not Muslims.

As you have seen, a lot of gullible Westerners fall for your declared innocence, but a lie is still a lie, and I am glad I do not have to live yours. Now, shouldn’t you be at prayers, or something?

ordinaryguy wrote on Sep 26^th, 2015 at 9:22pm:

I was born into a muslim family, I am of arab heritage - from a religious islamic background.

Paki, are you?

Me too, Matty.

Karnal wrote on Sep 26^th, 2015 at 11:54pm:

ordinaryguy wrote on Sep 26th, 2015 at 9:22pm: I was born into a muslim family, I am of arab heritage - from a religious islamic background. Paki, are you? Me too, Matty.

No I'm a Caucasian Bedouin, converted to being Arabic when I saw how advanced the culture was after studying all others and knocking back atheism, you know the ones arafat said they called Palestinians to try and get the world off side with israel. The ones arafat said he called palestinians to create a cause for the world to get upset with israel. Darn that 6 day war that failed. Sorta left em out in the cold didn't it.

I own a magic carpet left to me by an old islamic cleric who used to fly donkeys in trifectas in the medina valley back in the day. The strange thing was he used to call me matty too when I disagreed with him. It must be a muslim tradition I guess.

Karnal wrote on Sep 26^th, 2015 at 11:51pm:

No, I've looked. Where does the Bible discuss the trinity?

Google will set you free. If you can't find it amongst the multitudes there, what sprint gives you will be way over your burqa.

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 26^th, 2015 at 8:08pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 26th, 2015 at 8:02am: I'd like to know how and why you became a Muslim. Are you a 1st gen Aussie born into a Muslim family? I'd like to hear about your personal journey. (It doesn't have to be detailed). Why? I don't have the opportunity to ask the few Muslims I do know. Thank you Lisa for your interest. Firstly, I was not born into a muslim family, I am of anglo-Scotish heritage - from a non-religious protestant background. I was introduced to Islam by a friend, who later became my wife. For most of my life I have believed in God. I dabbled in atheism for a brief period but quickly came to the conclusion that I was lying to myself. I always had difficulty with christian doctrine - to me it seemed unnecessarily convoluted: why was there 3 parts to God, and why was it only possible to communicate with God through his Son (whose not really is "son" but an inextricable part of the single entity of God). And most confusing of all - why was it necessary for God to perform a blood sacrifice of "himself" before mankind was eligible for salvation? And then I discovered Islam - which offers a far simpler explanation of God - He doesn't consist of different components which may or may not be separate depending on which theologian you talk to - he does not need an intermediary to communicate through, and there is no complicated blood sacrifice that enables the salvation of mankind. Just God on his own, and prophets to deliver his message. So I guess in summary I see my journey into Islam in two parts: first I have a belief in God and his creation of mankind and his plan for mankind. That is innate, completely separate to any religious doctrine. And once you (or at least 'I') have this starting point, you then go about looking at which religious doctrine best explains the nature of God and His plan and the meaning of life. And for me it is Islam.

Dear Gandalf,

you forget that  Jesus is mentioned many times in the Koran.

Muhammad was actually a Christian who went around the Middle East preaching the gospel.

How can you reconcile that?

Islam—a made up religion, taking parts from Judaism and christianity.

Then the crap on the haj, the superstitious nonsense re stoning the devil etc, bah!

Jovial Monk wrote on Sep 27^th, 2015 at 12:09pm:

Islam—a made up religion, taking parts from Judaism and christianity. Then the crap on the haj, the superstitious nonsense re stoning the devil etc, bah!

You've gotta stone that devil.  ;D

Karnal wrote on Sep 26^th, 2015 at 11:51pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Sep 26th, 2015 at 9:46pm: Karnal wrote on Sep 26th, 2015 at 9:04pm: Sprintcyclist wrote on Sep 26th, 2015 at 8:48pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 26th, 2015 at 8:08pm: Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 26th, 2015 at 8:02am: I'd like to know how and why you became a Muslim. Are you a 1st gen Aussie born into a Muslim family? I'd like to hear about your personal journey. (It doesn't have to be detailed). Why? I don't have the opportunity to ask the few Muslims I do know. Thank you Lisa for your interest. Firstly, I was not born into a muslim family, I am of anglo-Scotish heritage - from a non-religious protestant background. I was introduced to Islam by a friend, who later became my wife. For most of my life I have believed in God. I dabbled in atheism for a brief period but quickly came to the conclusion that I was lying to myself. I always had difficulty with christian doctrine - to me it seemed unnecessarily convoluted: why was there 3 parts to God, and why was it only possible to communicate with God through his Son (whose not really is "son" but an inextricable part of the single entity of God). And most confusing of all - why was it necessary for God to perform a blood sacrifice of "himself" before mankind was eligible for salvation? And then I discovered Islam - which offers a far simpler explanation of God - He doesn't consist of different components which may or may not be separate depending on which theologian you talk to - he does not need an intermediary to communicate through, and there is no complicated blood sacrifice that enables the salvation of mankind. Just God on his own, and prophets to deliver his message. So I guess in summary I see my journey into Islam in two parts: first I have a belief in God and his creation of mankind and his plan for mankind. That is innate, completely separate to any religious doctrine. And once you (or at least 'I') have this starting point, you then go about looking at which religious doctrine best explains the nature of God and His plan and the meaning of life. And for me it is Islam.    thanks for your direct answer Gandalf. your questions are all pretty readily answered in any bible. Maybe you could quote the passages on the trinity, Sprint. We might turn G around. there are many quotes to explain it. seek and ye shall find No, I've looked. Where does the Bible discuss the trinity?

In genesis to start with.
lots of other places in the NT

Where would we find it, Sprint?

I say, why don’t you just quote the passages?

Karnal wrote on Sep 27^th, 2015 at 12:49pm:

Where would we find it, Sprint? I say, why don’t you just quote the passages?

“Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs.
If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.
Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.
For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened."

Matthew 7:6-8

Karnal wrote on Sep 27^th, 2015 at 12:49pm:

Where would we find it, Sprint? I say, why don’t you just quote the passages?

The trinity and 3 gods in one is clearly in the bible.

No-one has ever seen god -john 1:18
hear o israel, the lord our lord is one lord -mark 12:29
Why do you call me good?There is none good but one, that is God Matthew 19:17

Trinity-Clearly explained in the bible-not.

"What we have received is not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may understand what God has freely given us.
This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words.
The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.
The person with the Spirit makes judgments about all things, but such a person is not subject to merely human judgments,"

1 Corinthians 2:12-15

Which part’s about the trinity, Sprint? I think G’s still a bit confused.

Let’s bring him back.

'....................The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit. ..............'

Sprintcyclist wrote on Sep 27^th, 2015 at 3:08pm:

'....................The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit. ..............'

1 Corinthians 2:14

John 11:35  ::)

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 27^th, 2015 at 4:34pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Sep 27th, 2015 at 3:08pm: '....................The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit. ..............' 1 Corinthians 2:14 John 11:35  ::)

yes, and moh raped, killed and tortured people

Sprintcyclist wrote on Sep 27^th, 2015 at 3:08pm:

'....................The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit. ..............'

That’s about the Spirit of God, Sprint. You said you were going to show us the parts with the trinity.

If you can’t Find any, how are we going to bring G back into the fold?

Sprintcyclist wrote on Sep 27^th, 2015 at 3:08pm:

'....................The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit. ..............'

Come on, Sprint, we’re Christians. We have a duty to help others grow in their understanding of God. First and foremost, we have a duty to back up our words with actions.

We should never quote the Holy Bible in an insincere, blasphemous manner.This is a sin. We’re here to learn more about God and help others in their learning.

If you won’t post the parts about the trinity, I’ll have to ask someone else. I’ve Googled it and come up with nothing.

Matthew 28:19 - Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.

No?

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 27^th, 2015 at 7:15pm:

Matthew 28:19 - Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. No?

So if Australia went to war with Saudi Arabia would you join the fight Gandalf????

Quote:

...............The person without the Spirit......... cannot understand............

issuevoter wrote on Sep 26^th, 2015 at 11:52pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 26th, 2015 at 8:09pm: issuevoter wrote on Sep 26th, 2015 at 7:08pm: Oh boy, here we go. The angel Gabriel came to him just like his hero Mohammed. If you have nothing to contribute, why do you bother posting? Nothing to contribute? First of all, the OP does not ask me for a contribution, it asks you. I made a comment on that request, and in so doing I ridicule your pathetic interpretation of reality.

Interpretation of reality eh?

If you'll recall you suggested that my life journey into Islam would involve a claim about hearing the revelation from the angel Gabriel himself. And if you really believe that muslims routinely claim that they found Islam through such an epiphany - then I suggest its your "interpretation of reality" that is pathetic and deserves ridicule - not mine.

What happened Issue - did a muslim stomp on your puppy when you were a kid?

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 27^th, 2015 at 7:23pm:

issuevoter wrote on Sep 26th, 2015 at 11:52pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 26th, 2015 at 8:09pm: issuevoter wrote on Sep 26th, 2015 at 7:08pm: Oh boy, here we go. The angel Gabriel came to him just like his hero Mohammed. If you have nothing to contribute, why do you bother posting? Nothing to contribute? First of all, the OP does not ask me for a contribution, it asks you. I made a comment on that request, and in so doing I ridicule your pathetic interpretation of reality. Interpretation of reality eh? If you'll recall you suggested that my life journey into Islam would involve a claim about hearing the revelation from the angel Gabriel himself. And if you really believe that muslims routinely claim that they found Islam through such an epiphany - then I suggest its your "interpretation of reality" that is pathetic and deserves ridicule - not mine. What happened Issue - did a muslim stomp on your puppy when you were a kid?

So do you put an Australian person over an Islamic person gandalf???

double plus good wrote on Sep 27^th, 2015 at 7:16pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 27th, 2015 at 7:15pm: Matthew 28:19 - Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. No? So if Australia went to war with Saudi Arabia would you join the fight Gandalf????

When we *DID* go to war with Iraq - did you join the fight?

If we were invaded by any country, its probable that I would join the defense. But if you're asking if I would join in an attack against a sovereign nation that had nothing to do with our own defense (you know, the usual story), then obviously no.

Q: "What about the doctrine of the Trinity, the Holy Trinity?"

our A: You and I live in a three-dimensional world. All physical objects have a certain height, width, and depth. One person can look like someone else, or behave like someone else, or even sound like someone else. But a person cannot actually be the same as another person. They are distinct individuals.

God, however, lives without the limitations of a three-dimensional universe. He is spirit. And he is infinitely more complex than we are.

That is why Jesus the Son can be different from the Father. And, yet the same.

The Bible clearly speaks of: God the Son, God the Father, and God the Holy Spirit. But emphasizes that there is only ONE God.

If we were to use math, it would not be, 1+1+1=3. It would be 1x1x1=1. God is a triune God.

Thus the term: "Tri" meaning three, and "Unity" meaning one, Tri+Unity = Trinity. It is a way of acknowledging what the Bible reveals to us about God, that God is yet three "Persons" who have the same essence of deity. Some have tried to give human illustrations for the Trinity, such as H2O being water, ice and steam (all different forms, but all are H2O). Another illustration would be the sun. From it we receive light, heat and radiation. Three distinct aspects, but only one sun.

No illustration is going to be perfect.

But from the very beginning we see God as a Trinity. Notice the plural pronouns "us" and "our" in Genesis 1:26 -- Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

Though not a complete list, here is some other Scripture that shows God is one, in Trinity:

"Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one!" (Deut. 6:4)

"I am the LORD, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God." (Isa. 45:5)

There is no God but one. (1Cor. 8:4)

And after being baptized, Jesus went up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming upon Him, and behold, a voice out of the heavens, saying, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased." (Matt. 3:16-17)

"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit." (Matt. 28:19)

Jesus said: "I and the Father are one." (John 10:30)

"He who has seen Me has seen the Father." (John 14:9)

"He who beholds Me beholds the One who sent Me." (John 12:45)

If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. (Rom. 8:9)

"Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife; for that which has been conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit." (Matt. 1:20)

And the angel answered and said to her [Mary], "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy offspring shall be called the Son of God." (Luke 1:35)

[Jesus speaking to His disciples] "And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not behold Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you, and will be in you." ... "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him, and make Our abode with him." (John 14:16-17, 23)

Tsk, tsk, no attribution?  Naughty, naughty, you should always give your sources.   ::) ::)

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 27^th, 2015 at 7:15pm:

Matthew 28:19 - Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. No?

“Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs.
If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.
Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.
For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened."

Matthew 7:6-8

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 27^th, 2015 at 7:27pm:

double plus good wrote on Sep 27th, 2015 at 7:16pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 27th, 2015 at 7:15pm: Matthew 28:19 - Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. No? So if Australia went to war with Saudi Arabia would you join the fight Gandalf???? When we *DID* go to war with Iraq - did you join the fight? If we were invaded by any country, its probable that I would join the defense. But if you're asking if I would join in an attack against a sovereign nation that had nothing to do with our own defense (you know, the usual story), then obviously no.

So you have no problem killing a muslim if our country asked you to???

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 27^th, 2015 at 7:27pm:

double plus good wrote on Sep 27th, 2015 at 7:16pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 27th, 2015 at 7:15pm: Matthew 28:19 - Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. No? So if Australia went to war with Saudi Arabia would you join the fight Gandalf???? When we *DID* go to war with Iraq - did you join the fight? If we were invaded by any country, its probable that I would join the defense. But if you're asking if I would join in an attack against a sovereign nation that had nothing to do with our own defense (you know, the usual story), then obviously no.

I thought you were dumb to respond to Jones who was just hunting for personal details, but, this has now reached an interesting point.

Let's assume you and I (an agnostic, former Presbyterian) were shoulder to shoulder defending Australia in Australia from invading Muslims on a jihad.  They are starting to get the upper hand in the poo fight.  What level of confidence could I have that you would not go all 'Allah is great" and turn your gun on me?

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 27^th, 2015 at 7:31pm:

Tsk, tsk, no attribution?  Naughty, naughty, you should always give your sources.   ::) ::)

My point was made. Maybe you should google more often. You may learn something.

Having trouble understanding the content I take it.

Aussie, I have no doubt that I would either have been interned, deported or executed long before you would have to face such a dilemma.

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 27^th, 2015 at 7:47pm:

Aussie, I have no doubt that I would either have been interned, deported or executed long before you would have to face such a dilemma.

And if you weren't?

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 26^th, 2015 at 8:08pm:

anglo-Scotish heritage - from a non-religious protestant background.

;D ;D ;D ;D

Pull the Other one it plays Jingle Bells

Aussie wrote on Sep 27^th, 2015 at 7:49pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 27th, 2015 at 7:47pm: Aussie, I have no doubt that I would either have been interned, deported or executed long before you would have to face such a dilemma. And if you weren't?

Aussie I'm dissapointed in you. You complain about another poster trying to bait me - this question is nothing less than an insult. You should know better.

I won't dignify it with an answer.

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 27^th, 2015 at 8:00pm:

Aussie wrote on Sep 27th, 2015 at 7:49pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 27th, 2015 at 7:47pm: Aussie, I have no doubt that I would either have been interned, deported or executed long before you would have to face such a dilemma. And if you weren't? Aussie I'm dissapointed in you. You complain about another poster trying to bait me - this question is nothing less than an insult. You should know better. I won't dignify it with an answer.

No.  Your candid answer will have a most fundamental impact on what has been my very supportive position on Islam in Australia right up until this pivotal moment.  That you equivocate at the crucial point, is very important and significant for me.

Make no mistake.  I am fair dinkum about that.

So, let's have your answer.

Aussie wrote on Sep 27^th, 2015 at 7:35pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 27th, 2015 at 7:27pm: double plus good wrote on Sep 27th, 2015 at 7:16pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 27th, 2015 at 7:15pm: Matthew 28:19 - Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. No? So if Australia went to war with Saudi Arabia would you join the fight Gandalf???? When we *DID* go to war with Iraq - did you join the fight? If we were invaded by any country, its probable that I would join the defense. But if you're asking if I would join in an attack against a sovereign nation that had nothing to do with our own defense (you know, the usual story), then obviously no. I thought you were dumb to respond to Jones who was just hunting for personal details, but, this has now reached an interesting point. Let's assume you and I (an agnostic, former Presbyterian) were shoulder to shoulder defending Australia in Australia from invading Muslims on a jihad.  They are starting to get the upper hand in the poo fight.  What level of confidence could I have that you would not go all 'Allah is great" and turn your gun on me?

Gandalf, as you can now see, this Aussie nic is a passive aggressive stalking troll who hijacks any topic I start.....anywhere on OzPol.

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 27^th, 2015 at 8:00pm:

Aussie wrote on Sep 27th, 2015 at 7:49pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 27th, 2015 at 7:47pm: Aussie, I have no doubt that I would either have been interned, deported or executed long before you would have to face such a dilemma. And if you weren't? Aussie I'm dissapointed in you. You complain about another poster trying to bait me - this question is nothing less than an insult. You should know better. I won't dignify it with an answer.

No one would.

You could however, dignify it with a warning of a ban.

Aussie has already received those today elsewhere on Oz Pol by frustrated moderators who are sick to death of his disruptive passive aggressive trolling.

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 27^th, 2015 at 7:47pm:

Aussie, I have no doubt that I would either have been interned, deported or executed long before you would have to face such a dilemma.

The question is about trusting you, Gandy. Don't avoid it.

Taqiyya??

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 27^th, 2015 at 8:19pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 27th, 2015 at 8:00pm: Aussie wrote on Sep 27th, 2015 at 7:49pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 27th, 2015 at 7:47pm: Aussie, I have no doubt that I would either have been interned, deported or executed long before you would have to face such a dilemma. And if you weren't? Aussie I'm dissapointed in you. You complain about another poster trying to bait me - this question is nothing less than an insult. You should know better. I won't dignify it with an answer. No one would. You could however, dignify it with a warning of a ban. Aussie has already received those today elsewhere on Oz Pol by frustrated moderators who are sick to death of his disruptive passive aggressive trolling.

Really....where?  What moderators (plural.)  I know you have also been warned by Agnes, or was she not being honest when she said that.

"Anyway....back to the Topic."

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 27^th, 2015 at 8:00pm:

Aussie wrote on Sep 27th, 2015 at 7:49pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 27th, 2015 at 7:47pm: Aussie, I have no doubt that I would either have been interned, deported or executed long before you would have to face such a dilemma. And if you weren't? Aussie I'm dissapointed in you. You complain about another poster trying to bait me - this question is nothing less than an insult. You should know better. I won't dignify it with an answer.

Why the hell are you miffed about Muslims' allegiances being called into question?  Get real Gandy.  Your coreligionists have been at open war with the West for centuries.

If I do not get a responsive and candid answer from Gandalf on that very simple question going to the root of fundamental loyalty to Australia, then many will be quite surprised how quickly this Black Duck can and will flick a switch.

Gandalf?

Aussie wrote on Sep 27^th, 2015 at 8:23pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 27th, 2015 at 8:19pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 27th, 2015 at 8:00pm: Aussie wrote on Sep 27th, 2015 at 7:49pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 27th, 2015 at 7:47pm: Aussie, I have no doubt that I would either have been interned, deported or executed long before you would have to face such a dilemma. And if you weren't? Aussie I'm dissapointed in you. You complain about another poster trying to bait me - this question is nothing less than an insult. You should know better. I won't dignify it with an answer. No one would. You could however, dignify it with a warning of a ban. Aussie has already received those today elsewhere on Oz Pol by frustrated moderators who are sick to death of his disruptive passive aggressive trolling. Really....where?  What moderators (plural.)  I know you have also been warned by Agnes, or was she not being honest when she said that. "Anyway....back to the Topic."

You don't know when to stop.

Now you've just been banned by another OzPol Moderator for 2 weeks.

What is it with you Aussie?

You've been permanently banned from FD's other political forum. The rest of us however are happily posting away there.

Something is definitely not right with you.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1441604751/101#101

Up for Gandalf!

Gandalf, how can I discuss this with you or you with me while there is all this Lisa garbage everywhere?

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 27^th, 2015 at 8:00pm:

Aussie wrote on Sep 27th, 2015 at 7:49pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 27th, 2015 at 7:47pm: Aussie, I have no doubt that I would either have been interned, deported or executed long before you would have to face such a dilemma. And if you weren't? Aussie I'm dissapointed in you. You complain about another poster trying to bait me - this question is nothing less than an insult. You should know better. I won't dignify it with an answer.

^^^^^^Yet another forum Mod which Aussie's rubbed the wrong way.

I can see yet another ban coming his way.

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 27^th, 2015 at 7:15pm:

Matthew 28:19 - Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. No?

gandalf,

To what part of the trinity did the individual who met with Abraham belong [i.e. the individual who met with Abraham, as recorded in Genesis 18] ?

Was he the Father, or the Son [...or perhaps he was the Holy Ghost] ?

Oh, yes.     .....it is no use asking you, a moslem,      ....because you [the moslem] don't accept three God's, a trinity.



+++



I claim to be a Christian, and for myself, there is no 'trinity', there is no triune 'godhead'.

What about Jesus ?

Jesus was is the only begotten son of God.          [Jesus, raised,   .....is the 'first-fruits' of many brethren, the children, sons and daughters of God.      see, 2 Corinthians 6:14-18]



Reading scripture, to me, Jesus was also, a man of flesh and blood and bone.

But at the same time Jesus was a man [of flesh] imbued with the essence of what God is.

e.g.
Matthew 17:5
While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.



Again, for myself, there is no 'trinity', there is no triune 'godhead'.

The defining verses [for myself] are;

Deuteronomy 6:4
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

John 4:24
God is a Spirit:....

John 10:30
I and my Father are one.

John 14:8
Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9  Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?




Read your Bible.

Holy scripture reveals, that the God of Israel has manifested himself in many forms, to mankind.

The man Jesus, was not the first time that God manifested himself, as a man, to men.
e.g. Genesis 18

But, scripture is definitive, Jesus stated, that God's 'essence' is spirit.

But the essence of what 'spirit' is, is still a mystery to me.

I barely understand what this 'flesh' [that i 'inhabit'] is!   ....except i know that it is a clay 'prison' of sorts.



Yadda said...
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1233665290/44#44

Quote:

You are mistaken, i don't worship a pagan deity, or a 'trinity'.

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 27^th, 2015 at 7:47pm:

Aussie, I have no doubt that I would either have been interned, deported or executed long before you would have to face such a dilemma.

I concur.

.....in an ideal sane world.

:)


But i doubt the latter.

Aussie wrote on Sep 27^th, 2015 at 9:40pm:

Gandalf, how can I discuss this with you or you with me while there is all this Lisa garbage everywhere?

Aussie - why do you pick on Lisa? - she's a good kid.

forgiven

namaste

Soren wrote on Sep 27^th, 2015 at 8:23pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 27th, 2015 at 7:47pm: Aussie, I have no doubt that I would either have been interned, deported or executed long before you would have to face such a dilemma. The question is about trusting you, Gandy. Don't avoid it. Taqiyya??

Can we ever trust a moslem, or trust a moslem, to be a 'friend' ?

QUESTION;
On what grounds would such trust be based ?????

Would such trust, be based upon your moslem friends, ISLAMIC purity,    ...as a moslem ?????                 :o



.




IMAGE...
http://www.raymondibrahim.com/_admin/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/129.jpeg

Sheikh Yassir al-Burhami



Quote:

How Circumstance Dictates Islamic Behavior January 18, 2012 Preach Peace When Weak, Wage War When Strong "...all notions of peace with non-Muslims are based on circumstance. When Muslims are weak, they should be peaceful; when strong, they should go on the offensive."

Sheikh Yassir al-Burhami - an ISLAMIC scholar and Egyptian Salafi leader
http://www.raymondibrahim.com/from-the-arab-world/how-circumstance-dictates-islamic-behavior/







Quote:

July 28, 2006 Islamic Dictionary for Infidels ...Robert Spencer, ..."Religious deception of unbelievers is indeed taught by the Qur'an itself: "Let not the believers take for friends or helpers unbelievers rather than believers. If any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah; except by way of precaution, that ye may guard yourselves from them" (Qur'an 3:28). In other words, don't make friends with unbelievers except to "guard yourselves from them": pretend to be their friends so that you can strengthen yourself against them. The distinguished Qur'anic commentator Ibn Kathir explains that this verse teaches that if "believers who in some areas or times fear for their safety from the disbelievers," they may "show friendship to the disbelievers outwardly, but never inwardly."

Google




.




Quote:

A Study in Muslim Doctrine "...while sincere friendship with non-Muslims is forbidden, insincere friendship - whenever beneficial to Muslims - is not."

http://www.meforum.org/2512/nidal-hasan-fort-hood-muslim-doctrine




Google;
we smile to the face "while our hearts curse them"




+++



Is it that we can trust moslems, because moslems have told us that they 'appreciate' and respect Western secularism ?????


FACT;
Moslems [often being moslems who are living within Western nations] feel 'driven' and compelled to kill other moslems [living within a Western nation].  [i.e. these are murders [committed by moslems], of apostate children, sisters, brothers, wives.]


QUESTION;
What is the stated common motive and justification [given by the moslem KILLERS] for such killings ????????


ANSWER;

Quote:

"BOTH HANDS-ON KILLERS AND CONSPIRATOR-ACCOMPLICES VIEWED THEIR VICTIMS AS "TOO WESTERN" "

           !!!!!!!!!!!!!



http://www.meforum.org/pics/large/1702.jpg
Female perpetrators and accomplices in honor killings, like their male counterparts, can be calculating, brutal, and without remorse. Tooba Yahya Shafia (center) of Canada was directly involved with her husband and son in the murder of three of her daughters and her husband's first wife.



http://www.meforum.org/pics/large/1703.jpg
Shafilea Ahmed (left) of the United Kingdom was murdered by her Pakistani father Iftikhar (top right) and mother Farzana (bottom right). They suffocated Shafilea in front of their four other children after she refused a forced marriage in Pakistan. They were convicted and sentenced to life imprisonment.



Quote:

When Women Commit Honor Killings by Phyllis Chesler Middle East Quarterly Fall 2015 .....Hands-on killers and conspirator-accomplices killed for the same reasons: They saw their victims as "too Western" or as "sexually inappropriate." Motive varied as a function of region. Both hands-on killers and conspirator-accomplices viewed their victims as "too Western" 77 percent of the time. Sixty-seven percent of female hands-on killers and 84 percent of conspirator-accomplices perceived their victims this way. (See Charts 2 and 3, below.) In Muslim-majority countries, only 43 percent of victims were killed for this reason. However, in the West, the mainly Muslim victims in North America were viewed as "too Western" 91 percent of the time and 100 percent of the time in Europe. (See Chart 1 for definitions of "too Western.")

http://www.meforum.org/5477/when-women-commit-honor-killingsi

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 27^th, 2015 at 7:23pm:

issuevoter wrote on Sep 26th, 2015 at 11:52pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 26th, 2015 at 8:09pm: issuevoter wrote on Sep 26th, 2015 at 7:08pm: Oh boy, here we go. The angel Gabriel came to him just like his hero Mohammed. If you have nothing to contribute, why do you bother posting? Nothing to contribute? First of all, the OP does not ask me for a contribution, it asks you. I made a comment on that request, and in so doing I ridicule your pathetic interpretation of reality. Interpretation of reality eh? If you'll recall you suggested that my life journey into Islam would involve a claim about hearing the revelation from the angel Gabriel himself. And if you really believe that muslims routinely claim that they found Islam through such an epiphany - then I suggest its your "interpretation of reality" that is pathetic and deserves ridicule - not mine. What happened Issue - did a muslim stomp on your puppy when you were a kid?

I suggest to prove your point, you state it out loud in the square at Mecca when you make your obligatory pilgrimage, and see what kind of reception you get.

Speaking of Muzzlims stomping on pups, here are a few examples:

1990  EgyptAir 990            217k (co-pilot’s Islamic rant recorded)
1998 Nairobi:                  224 killed,      4500, maimed
1999 Moscow                  293k            651
2001 New York                  2996k      6000+
2002 Bali                         202k            209
2002      Moscow                  170k            700+
2003      Philippines                  21k            146+
2004      Madrid                  191k            1800
2005      London                  52k            700+
2005 Indonesia                  3 Christian schoolgirls beheaded.
2006      India Railways            186k            ?
2007      Baghdad market            131k            186
2008      Mombai                  164k            600+
2009 Texas                  13k( 1pregnant) 30
2010      Moscow                  40k            100+
2011 Mombai                    26k            130
2012      China                  2k            13
2012      Yemen                  120+            600+

Most will remember the more recent atrocities, all justified in the name of Islam, which is Gandalf's interpretation of reality.

Aussie wrote on Sep 27^th, 2015 at 8:37pm:

If I do not get a responsive and candid answer from Gandalf on that very simple question going to the root of fundamental loyalty to Australia, then many will be quite surprised how quickly this Black Duck can and will flick a switch. Gandalf?

I think its pretty clear where they all stand.

ordinaryguy wrote on Sep 27^th, 2015 at 11:14pm:

Aussie wrote on Sep 27th, 2015 at 8:37pm: If I do not get a responsive and candid answer from Gandalf on that very simple question going to the root of fundamental loyalty to Australia, then many will be quite surprised how quickly this Black Duck can and will flick a switch. Gandalf? I think its pretty clear where they all stand.

Which "they all" are you rabbiting on about now?

If you can't work it out troll I suggest you return to your aboriginal ranting in the other thread.

ordinaryguy wrote on Sep 27^th, 2015 at 11:42pm:

If you can't work it out troll I suggest you return to your aboriginal ranting in the other thread.

Oh i can work it out. I just wanted to hear you say it.

I suspected as much, don't have a cry if you are ignored then.

ordinaryguy wrote on Sep 27^th, 2015 at 11:49pm:

I suspected as much, don't have a cry if you are ignored then.

But you are not ignoring me. You are simply avoiding the question.

Is it painful to state your prejudices in simple terms? Does it make you look .. well .. stupid?

Do you have anything of substance to contribute other than a troll because if you do bombs away. If not buggeroff.

ordinaryguy wrote on Sep 27^th, 2015 at 11:55pm:

Do you have anything of substance to contribute other than a troll because if you do bombs away. If not buggeroff.

How about you answering my question. That should be interesting.

mothra wrote on Sep 28^th, 2015 at 12:01am:

ordinaryguy wrote on Sep 27th, 2015 at 11:55pm: Do you have anything of substance to contribute other than a troll because if you do bombs away. If not buggeroff. How about you answering my question. That should be interesting.

You knew what I meant.

If you want to play full metal retard do it on some other persons time not mine. If you want to discuss something thread related instead of childish games by all means fire away.

Until then don't be upset if you are ignored.

LifeOrDeath wrote on Sep 27^th, 2015 at 7:44pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 27th, 2015 at 7:31pm: Tsk, tsk, no attribution?  Naughty, naughty, you should always give your sources.   ::) ::) My point was made. Maybe you should google more often. You may learn something. Having trouble understanding the content I take it.

Being an ex-Catholic I can believe any Tommy-rot you care to posit...   ::)

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 28^th, 2015 at 12:12am:

LifeOrDeath wrote on Sep 27th, 2015 at 7:44pm: Brian Ross wrote on Sep 27th, 2015 at 7:31pm: Tsk, tsk, no attribution?  Naughty, naughty, you should always give your sources.   ::) ::) My point was made. Maybe you should google more often. You may learn something. Having trouble understanding the content I take it. Being an ex-Catholic I can believe any Tommy-rot you care to posit...   ::)

But of course you were ex catholic just like gandalf is not arab and was a convert to islam.

Pull Ease, give me something more Brain.

Yadda wrote on Sep 27^th, 2015 at 10:50pm:

Soren wrote on Sep 27th, 2015 at 8:23pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 27th, 2015 at 7:47pm: Aussie, I have no doubt that I would either have been interned, deported or executed long before you would have to face such a dilemma. The question is about trusting you, Gandy. Don't avoid it. Taqiyya?? Can we ever trust a moslem, or trust a moslem, to be a 'friend' ?

Yes.   ::)

ordinaryguy wrote on Sep 28^th, 2015 at 12:10am:

mothra wrote on Sep 28th, 2015 at 12:01am: ordinaryguy wrote on Sep 27th, 2015 at 11:55pm: Do you have anything of substance to contribute other than a troll because if you do bombs away. If not buggeroff. How about you answering my question. That should be interesting. You knew what I meant. If you want to play full metal retard do it on some other persons time not mine. If you want to discuss something thread related instead of childish games by all means fire away. Until then don't be upset if you are ignored.

You mean all Muslims are baaaad.

Just like you mean all Aboriginals are baaad.

Here's a head's up. You are wrong.

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 28^th, 2015 at 12:15am:

Yadda wrote on Sep 27th, 2015 at 10:50pm: Soren wrote on Sep 27th, 2015 at 8:23pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 27th, 2015 at 7:47pm: Aussie, I have no doubt that I would either have been interned, deported or executed long before you would have to face such a dilemma. The question is about trusting you, Gandy. Don't avoid it. Taqiyya?? Can we ever trust a moslem, or trust a moslem, to be a 'friend' ? Yes.   ::)

Why when the Qur'an says not to trust unbelievers and lie to them and attack them ?

Does not belief in these violent teachings make one a muslim ?

mothra wrote on Sep 28^th, 2015 at 12:18am:

ordinaryguy wrote on Sep 28th, 2015 at 12:10am: mothra wrote on Sep 28th, 2015 at 12:01am: ordinaryguy wrote on Sep 27th, 2015 at 11:55pm: Do you have anything of substance to contribute other than a troll because if you do bombs away. If not buggeroff. How about you answering my question. That should be interesting. You knew what I meant. If you want to play full metal retard do it on some other persons time not mine. If you want to discuss something thread related instead of childish games by all means fire away. Until then don't be upset if you are ignored. You mean all Muslims are baaaad. Just like you mean all Aboriginals are baaad. Here's a head's up. You are wrong.

Why the need to put words in my mouth are you really that hard up. For starters we are in the Islamic section not the aboriginal one.

Secondly it is you who are wrong as you know nothing about islam and are just here to troll prove me wrong.

ordinaryguy wrote on Sep 28^th, 2015 at 12:20am:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 28th, 2015 at 12:15am: Yadda wrote on Sep 27th, 2015 at 10:50pm: Soren wrote on Sep 27th, 2015 at 8:23pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 27th, 2015 at 7:47pm: Aussie, I have no doubt that I would either have been interned, deported or executed long before you would have to face such a dilemma. The question is about trusting you, Gandy. Don't avoid it. Taqiyya?? Can we ever trust a moslem, or trust a moslem, to be a 'friend' ? Yes.   ::) Why when the Qur'an says not to trust unbelievers and lie to them and attack them ?

All depends on context.  If it is wartime, almost anything is allowed.  If it is peacetime then those tactics are not allowed... ::)


Quote:

Does not belief in these violent teachings make one a muslim ?

Nope.    ::)

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 28^th, 2015 at 12:26am:

ordinaryguy wrote on Sep 28th, 2015 at 12:20am: Brian Ross wrote on Sep 28th, 2015 at 12:15am: Yadda wrote on Sep 27th, 2015 at 10:50pm: Soren wrote on Sep 27th, 2015 at 8:23pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 27th, 2015 at 7:47pm: Aussie, I have no doubt that I would either have been interned, deported or executed long before you would have to face such a dilemma. The question is about trusting you, Gandy. Don't avoid it. Taqiyya?? Can we ever trust a moslem, or trust a moslem, to be a 'friend' ? Yes.   ::) Why when the Qur'an says not to trust unbelievers and lie to them and attack them ? All depends on context.  If it is wartime, almost anything is allowed.  If it is peacetime then those tactics are not allowed... ::) Quote: Does not belief in these violent teachings make one a muslim ? Nope.    ::)

So to be a muslim one does NOT have to believe the whole Qur'an, just the parts they want.

Fair enough, so they are not muslims then.

I do not believe everything in bible (old or new testament)

However I can choose to live by some of it's rules.

Christianity has it's nutters (or those that take an extreme position on what is written and do not take into account the time it was written and the social order or threats of the time)

In Islam the same applies.

Nutters choose to take quotes to there extreme position or out of context.

Christians had the inquisition years and extreme dogma for many centuries after the fall of the Roman empire (we called them the Dark Ages)

What we have now is an extremist sect using the Quran to further there political objectives. That is to take over the world starting with being recognized as a state as the start. Islam believes in a devil similar to the Christian devil and also warns that the devil will come as a false god. These guys (ISIS in particular) could not be more devil if the devil did plan it.

They do not represent the majority view however there is a lot of fear in Islamic communities so few will speak out publically. Most Muslims I meet are decent people.

Also Arab culture has been brought into the mix as Islamic.

Super Nova wrote on Sep 28^th, 2015 at 1:16am:

I do not believe everything in bible (old or new testament) However I can choose to live by some of it's rules. Christianity has it's nutters (or those that take an extreme position on what is written and do not take into account the time it was written and the social order or threats of the time) In Islam the same applies. Nutters choose to take quotes to there extreme position or out of context. Christians had the inquisition years and extreme dogma for many centuries after the fall of the Roman empire (we called them the Dark Ages) What we have now is an extremist sect using the Quran to further there political objectives. That is to take over the world starting with being recognized as a state as the start. Islam believes in a devil similar to the Christian devil and also warns that the devil will come as a false god. These guys (ISIS in particular) could not be more devil if the devil did plan it. They do not represent the majority view however there is a lot of fear in Islamic communities so few will speak out publically. Most Muslims I meet are decent people. Also Arab culture has been brought into the mix as Islamic.

Incorrect, in context in Islam the extremists are supported by the text in context. Not so in the bible in context. So the crusades were touted as being done by Christianity but clearly was not according to the Christian scriptures. Islam on the other hand is supported by the Qua'ran.

Islam is at the opposite end of the scale compared to Christianity it has nothing to do with it. Comparison is ludicrous.

ordinaryguy wrote on Sep 28^th, 2015 at 1:22am:

Super Nova wrote on Sep 28th, 2015 at 1:16am: I do not believe everything in bible (old or new testament) However I can choose to live by some of it's rules. Christianity has it's nutters (or those that take an extreme position on what is written and do not take into account the time it was written and the social order or threats of the time) In Islam the same applies. Nutters choose to take quotes to there extreme position or out of context. Christians had the inquisition years and extreme dogma for many centuries after the fall of the Roman empire (we called them the Dark Ages) What we have now is an extremist sect using the Quran to further there political objectives. That is to take over the world starting with being recognized as a state as the start. Islam believes in a devil similar to the Christian devil and also warns that the devil will come as a false god. These guys (ISIS in particular) could not be more devil if the devil did plan it. They do not represent the majority view however there is a lot of fear in Islamic communities so few will speak out publically. Most Muslims I meet are decent people. Also Arab culture has been brought into the mix as Islamic. Incorrect, in context in Islam the extremists are supported by the text in context. Not so in the bible in context. So the crusades were touted as being done by Christianity but clearly was not according to the Christian scriptures. Islam on the other hand is supported by the Qua'ran. Islam is at the opposite end of the scale compared to Christianity it has nothing to do with it. Comparison is ludicrous.

Have you read every word in the Quran. I bet not.

It recognises the old testament and Abraham + moses plus the 10 commandments. References in the Quran to killing infidels is located in a section dealing with the trouble of the times. Taken out of historical context they have. Islam was tolerant off all religions under it's domain until recently. Jews, Christians ...etc were allowed to worship as they saw fit in their societies.

I do not defend what is going on, however I challenge this behaviour we see today is written and therefore mandated in the Quran. This is just not the case.

For example, traditional Muslim teaching stresses those passages in the Koran which affirm the Christian Gospel and the Hebrew Torah as valid revelations of God and paths to salvation. But there is a harsher, Saudi-influenced view which insists that since Muhammad delivered the final revelation, Christianity and Judaism have lost their power to save.

Extract from here: http://www.economist.com/node/10311317

Super Nova wrote on Sep 28^th, 2015 at 3:41am:

ordinaryguy wrote on Sep 28th, 2015 at 1:22am: Super Nova wrote on Sep 28th, 2015 at 1:16am: I do not believe everything in bible (old or new testament) However I can choose to live by some of it's rules. Christianity has it's nutters (or those that take an extreme position on what is written and do not take into account the time it was written and the social order or threats of the time) In Islam the same applies. Nutters choose to take quotes to there extreme position or out of context. Christians had the inquisition years and extreme dogma for many centuries after the fall of the Roman empire (we called them the Dark Ages) What we have now is an extremist sect using the Quran to further there political objectives. That is to take over the world starting with being recognized as a state as the start. Islam believes in a devil similar to the Christian devil and also warns that the devil will come as a false god. These guys (ISIS in particular) could not be more devil if the devil did plan it. They do not represent the majority view however there is a lot of fear in Islamic communities so few will speak out publically. Most Muslims I meet are decent people. Also Arab culture has been brought into the mix as Islamic. Incorrect, in context in Islam the extremists are supported by the text in context. Not so in the bible in context. So the crusades were touted as being done by Christianity but clearly was not according to the Christian scriptures. Islam on the other hand is supported by the Qua'ran. Islam is at the opposite end of the scale compared to Christianity it has nothing to do with it. Comparison is ludicrous. Have you read every word in the Quran. I bet not. It recognises the old testament and Abraham + moses plus the 10 commandments. References in the Quran to killing infidels is located in a section dealing with the trouble of the times. Taken out of historical context they have. Islam was tolerant off all religions under it's domain until recently. Jews, Christians ...etc were allowed to worship as they saw fit in their societies. I do not defend what is going on, however I challenge this behaviour we see today is written and therefore mandated in the Quran. This is just not the case.

Incorrect again on your context and blatant lying actually.

Simply explain to me the context of these verses in the Qur'an and we will suck up your cool aid ok.

Here we go:

The Quran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers for the sake of Islamic rule.  Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding.  Muslims who do not join the fight are called 'hypocrites' and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter.

Unlike nearly all of the Old Testament verses of violence, the verses of violence in the Quran are mostly open-ended, meaning that they are not restrained by the historical context of the surrounding text.  They are part of the eternal, unchanging word of Allah, and just as relevant or subject to interpretation as anything else in the Quran. 

The context of violent passages is more ambiguous than might be expected of a perfect book from a loving God; however this works both ways.  Most of today's Muslims exercise a personal choice to interpret their holy book's call to arms according to their own moral preconceptions about justifiable violence.  Apologists cater to their preferences with tenuous arguments that gloss over historical fact and generally do not stand up to scrutiny.  Still, it is important to note that the problem is not bad people, but bad ideology.

Unfortunately, there are very few verses of tolerance and peace to abrogate or even balance out the many that call for nonbelievers to be fought and subdued until they either accept humiliation, convert to Islam, or are killed.  Muhammad's own martial legacy - and that of his companions - along with the remarkable stress on violence found in the Quran have produced a trail of blood and tears across world history.

The Quran:
Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing...
but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful.   And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone.  But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)"  (Translation is from the Noble Quran)  The verse prior to this (190) refers to "fighting for the cause of Allah those who fight you" leading some to believe that the entire passage refers to a defensive war in which Muslims are defending their homes and families.  The historical context of this passage is not defensive warfare, however, since Muhammad and his Muslims had just relocated to Medina and were not under attack by their Meccan adversaries.  In fact, the verses urge offensive warfare, in that Muslims are to drive Meccans out of their own city (which they later did).  Verse 190 thus means to fight those who offer resistance to Allah's rule (ie. Muslim conquest).  The use of the word "persecution" by some Muslim translators is disingenuous (the actual Arabic words for persecution - "idtihad" - and oppression - a variation of "z-l-m" - do not appear in the verse).  The word used instead, "fitna",  can mean disbelief, or the disorder that results from unbelief or temptation.  This is certainly what is meant in this context since the violence is explicitly commissioned "until religion is for Allah" - ie. unbelievers desist in their unbelief.

Quran (2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."

Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."  Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defense, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time.  From the Hadith, we know that this verse was narrated at a time that Muhammad was actually trying to motivate his people into raiding merchant caravans for loot.

Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."

Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority".  This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be 'joining companions to Allah').

Quran (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward."  The martyrs of Islam are unlike the early Christians, who were led meekly to the slaughter.  These Muslims are killed in battle as they attempt to inflict death and destruction for the cause of Allah.  This is the theological basis for today's suicide bombers.

Quran (4:76) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…"

Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."

Quran (4:95) - "Not equal are those of the believers who sit (at home), except those who are disabled (by injury or are blind or lame, etc.), and those who strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with their wealth and their lives. Allah has preferred in grades those who strive hard and fight with their wealth and their lives above those who sit (at home). Unto each, Allah has promised good (Paradise), but Allah has preferred those who strive hard and fight, above those who sit (at home) by a huge reward "  This passage criticizes "peaceful" Muslims who do not join in the violence, letting them know that they are less worthy in Allah's eyes.  It also demolishes the modern myth that "Jihad" doesn't mean holy war in the Quran, but rather a spiritual struggle.  Not only is this Arabic word (mujahiduna) used in this passage, but it is clearly not referring to anything spiritual, since the physically disabled are given exemption.  (The Hadith reveals the context of the passage to be in response to a blind man's protest that he is unable to engage in Jihad, which would not make sense if it meant an internal struggle).  According to the verse, Allah will allow the disabled into Paradise, but will provide a larger reward to those who are able to kill others in his cause.

Quran (4:104) - "And be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you suffer pain, then surely they (too) suffer pain as you suffer pain..."  Is pursuing an injured and retreating enemy really an act of self-defense?

Quran (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"

Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"  No reasonable person would interpret this to mean a spiritual struggle.

Quran (8:15) - "O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them. (16)Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless maneuvering for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey's end."

Quran (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder, unbelief) and religion should be only for Allah"  Some translations interpret "fitna" as "persecution", but the traditional understanding of this word is not supported by the historical context (See notes for  2:193).  The Meccans were simply refusing Muhammad access to their city during Haj.  Other Muslims were allowed to travel there - just not as an armed group, since Muhammad had declared war on Mecca prior to his eviction.  The Meccans were also acting in defense of their religion, since it was Muhammad's intention to destroy their idols and establish Islam by force (which he later did).  Hence the critical part of this verse is to fight until "religion is only for Allah", meaning that the true justification of violence was the unbelief of the opposition.  According to the Sira (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 324) Muhammad further explains that "Allah must have no rivals."

Quran (8:57) - "If thou comest on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, that haply they may remember." 

Quran (8:67) - "It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war until he had made a great slaughter in the land..."

Quran (8:59-60) - "And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can outstrip (Allah's Purpose). Lo! they cannot escape.  Make ready for them all thou canst of (armed) force and of horses tethered, that thereby ye may dismay the enemy of Allah and your enemy."

Quran (8:65) - "O Prophet, exhort the believers to fight..."

Quran (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them."  According to this verse, the best way of staying safe from Muslim violence is to convert to Islam (prayer (salat) and the poor tax (zakat) are among the religion's Five Pillars).  This popular claim that the Quran only inspires violence within the context of self-defense is seriously challenged by this passage as well, since the Muslims to whom it was written were obviously not under attack.  Had they been, then there would have been no waiting period (earlier verses make it a duty for Muslims to fight in self-defense, even during the sacred months).  The historical context is Mecca after the idolaters were subjugated by Muhammad and posed no threat.  Once the Muslims had power, they violently evicted those unbelievers who would not convert.

Quran (9:14) - "Fight against them so that Allah will punish them by your hands and disgrace them and give you victory over them and heal the breasts of a believing people." Humiliating and hurting non-believers not only has the blessing of Allah, but it is ordered as a means of carrying out his punishment and even "healing" the hearts of Muslims.

Quran (9:20) - "Those who believe, and have left their homes and striven with their wealth and their lives in Allah's way are of much greater worth in Allah's sight. These are they who are triumphant."  The Arabic word interpreted as "striving" in this verse is the same root as "Jihad".  The context is obviously holy war.

Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."  "People of the Book" refers to Christians and Jews.  According to this verse, they are to be violently subjugated, with the sole justification being their religious status.  Verse 9:33 tells Muslims that Allah has charted them to make Islam "superior over all religions." This chapter was one of the final "revelations" from Allah and it set in motion the tenacious military expansion, in which Muhammad's companions managed to conquer two-thirds of the Christian world in the next 100 years.  Islam is intended to dominate all other people and faiths.

To be fair that's only 25% of what I have here you can start with those.

ordinaryguy wrote on Sep 28^th, 2015 at 3:50am:

The Quran: Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing... but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful.   And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone.  But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)"  (Translation is from the Noble Quran)  The verse prior to this (190) refers to "fighting for the cause of Allah those who fight you" leading some to believe that the entire passage refers to a defensive war in which Muslims are defending their homes and families.  The historical context of this passage is not defensive warfare, however, since Muhammad and his Muslims had just relocated to Medina and were not under attack by their Meccan adversaries.  In fact, the verses urge offensive warfare, in that Muslims are to drive Meccans out of their own city (which they later did).  Verse 190 thus means to fight those who offer resistance to Allah's rule (ie. Muslim conquest).  The use of the word "persecution" by some Muslim translators is disingenuous (the actual Arabic words for persecution - "idtihad" - and oppression - a variation of "z-l-m" - do not appear in the verse).  The word used instead, "fitna",  can mean disbelief, or the disorder that results from unbelief or temptation.  This is certainly what is meant in this context since the violence is explicitly commissioned "until religion is for Allah" - ie. unbelievers desist in their unbelief. Quran (2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."

So.

The verse prior to this (190) refers to "fighting for the cause of Allah those who fight you" leading some to believe that the entire passage refers to a defensive war in which Muslims are defending their homes and families.

This is my understanding of what is written.

The historical context of this passage is not defensive warfare, however, since Muhammad and his Muslims had just relocated to Medina and were not under attack by their Meccan adversaries

OK so it is not written just an interpretation of what people did in some assume an historical context.

Does not prove your point. I shall move to the next.

Super Nova wrote on Sep 28^th, 2015 at 3:58am:

ordinaryguy wrote on Sep 28th, 2015 at 3:50am: The Quran: Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing... but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful.   And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone.  But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)"  (Translation is from the Noble Quran)  The verse prior to this (190) refers to "fighting for the cause of Allah those who fight you" leading some to believe that the entire passage refers to a defensive war in which Muslims are defending their homes and families.  The historical context of this passage is not defensive warfare, however, since Muhammad and his Muslims had just relocated to Medina and were not under attack by their Meccan adversaries.  In fact, the verses urge offensive warfare, in that Muslims are to drive Meccans out of their own city (which they later did).  Verse 190 thus means to fight those who offer resistance to Allah's rule (ie. Muslim conquest).  The use of the word "persecution" by some Muslim translators is disingenuous (the actual Arabic words for persecution - "idtihad" - and oppression - a variation of "z-l-m" - do not appear in the verse).  The word used instead, "fitna",  can mean disbelief, or the disorder that results from unbelief or temptation.  This is certainly what is meant in this context since the violence is explicitly commissioned "until religion is for Allah" - ie. unbelievers desist in their unbelief. Quran (2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things." So. The verse prior to this (190) refers to "fighting for the cause of Allah those who fight you" leading some to believe that the entire passage refers to a defensive war in which Muslims are defending their homes and families. This is my understanding of what is written. The historical context of this passage is not defensive warfare, however, since Muhammad and his Muslims had just relocated to Medina and were not under attack by their Meccan adversaries OK so it is not written just an interpretation of what people did in some assume an historical context. Does not prove your point. I shall move to the next.

Actually the commands are open ended and can be applied to muslims to this very day. However it negates your claim.

Next verse.

Quran (2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."

Johnsmith wrote on Sep 26^th, 2015 at 8:18pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 26th, 2015 at 8:08pm: I am of anglo-Scotish heritage - from a non-religious protestant background. that is a surprise  ...

Don't let The Revelation that gandalf is a Pom spoil your day. There are more of us here ... Lots more ... Be Afraid ... Be VERY afraid ... 

Lord Herbert wrote on Sep 28^th, 2015 at 4:06am:

Johnsmith wrote on Sep 26th, 2015 at 8:18pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 26th, 2015 at 8:08pm: I am of anglo-Scotish heritage - from a non-religious protestant background. that is a surprise  ... Don't let The Revelation that gandalf is a Pom spoil your day. There are more of us here ... Lots more ... Be Afraid ... Be VERY afraid ...

Yeah I thought that was a cracker ;D ;D ;D

Bobby. wrote on Sep 27^th, 2015 at 12:19pm:

Jovial Monk wrote on Sep 27th, 2015 at 12:09pm: Islam—a made up religion, taking parts from Judaism and christianity. Then the crap on the haj, the superstitious nonsense re stoning the devil etc, bah! You've gotta stone that devil.  ;D

Speaking of getting stoned, where's Marla to put in her 2 bob's worth here?

ordinaryguy wrote on Sep 28^th, 2015 at 4:07am:

Lord Herbert wrote on Sep 28th, 2015 at 4:06am: Johnsmith wrote on Sep 26th, 2015 at 8:18pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 26th, 2015 at 8:08pm: I am of anglo-Scotish heritage - from a non-religious protestant background. that is a surprise  ... Don't let The Revelation that gandalf is a Pom spoil your day. There are more of us here ... Lots more ... Be Afraid ... Be VERY afraid ...  Yeah I thought that was a cracker ;D ;D ;D

Like so many Italians, John Smith suffers from Terminal Anglophobia from when the Romans arrived in Britain and tasted the local food.

Tripe
Haggis
Jellied eels
Black Pudding
Spotted Dick
Pig's trotters
Ox tongue
Lumpy porridge

I take it you have your hands full proving your point Super Nova or you have just plain given up. I'll be back to see your explanations of those verses you claim are quoted out of context and am eager to read how they all fit your outlandish claim. If in fact you are actually going to prove your post is correct as you claim.

ordinaryguy, some of that is pretty scary. let me raise it with Muslims at work and I will get back with what they have to say.

I am not going to counter these facts. I don't know the context of the verses. I was under the impression, and happy to be proven wrong, that they all had contextual and historical context behind them all. We all know nutters take thing literally when they feel like it nd out of context. I cannot dispute you.

The words are there. Getting more scary by the moment.

Contrary to gandalf's journey towards becoming a prisoner-of-the-mind to religious blackmail, I myself travelled in the opposite direction - towards the Light of rational, unfettered, liberal free-thinking in which I didn't allow my reasoning-powers to become hostage to delusional psychopathy.

What does surprise me about Gandalf's Confession is why an intelligent fellow like him would feel the need to go shopping for an established religion in the first place. He seems to have actually taken home the 'Illustrated Religions of the World for Dummies' Buy-Now-Pay-Later catalogue.

The established religions carry a lot of unnecessary and superfluous baggage with them that add nothing to the claim that there is a Benign Creator who looks over each and every one of us like a fly on the wall or a high definition CCTV.

Gandalf bought it. He was sold on the whole box-and-dice that we know-and-love as 'Islam'.

And of course, the more versed and knowledgeable one becomes about a particular subject - no matter how fanciful - the more does ones self-esteem depend upon this subject as a vehicle for ones ego.

Given sufficient time, and with the proper kind of skilled therapy, most religionists such as gandalf can be de-cultified and returned to a normal and productive life, albeit with the occasional refresher on the couch.

The existence of a God doesn't depend upon religious belief and the 'worship' of cowed congregations who attend church or the mosque as an insurance against the After-life.

Lord Herbert wrote on Sep 28^th, 2015 at 4:06am:

Johnsmith wrote on Sep 26th, 2015 at 8:18pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 26th, 2015 at 8:08pm: I am of anglo-Scotish heritage - from a non-religious protestant background. that is a surprise  ... Don't let The Revelation that gandalf is a Pom spoil your day. There are more of us here ... Lots more ... Be Afraid ... Be VERY afraid ...

I'm more frightened of the fact that Gandalf doesn't know how to spell his heritage name.

It's very telling.

This business is reminiscent of David Hicks, another dirt-bag who became so intoxicated with Islam that he would say anything in its defence.

issuevoter wrote on Sep 28^th, 2015 at 9:05am:

This business is reminiscent of David Hicks, another dirt-bag who became so intoxicated with Islam that he would say anything in its defence.

One of a long line....

Oh and I don't believe Gandalf is anything but a 1st Gen Aussie like myself.

Lord Herbert wrote on Sep 28^th, 2015 at 4:23am:

ordinaryguy wrote on Sep 28th, 2015 at 4:07am: Lord Herbert wrote on Sep 28th, 2015 at 4:06am: Johnsmith wrote on Sep 26th, 2015 at 8:18pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 26th, 2015 at 8:08pm: I am of anglo-Scotish heritage - from a non-religious protestant background. that is a surprise  ... Don't let The Revelation that gandalf is a Pom spoil your day. There are more of us here ... Lots more ... Be Afraid ... Be VERY afraid ...  Yeah I thought that was a cracker ;D ;D ;D Like so many Italians, John Smith suffers from Terminal Anglophobia from when the Romans arrived in Britain and tasted the local food. Tripe Haggis Jellied eels Black Pudding Spotted Dick Pig's trotters Ox tongue Lumpy porridge

Anglophobia? do be such a daft twit herb.... I like Anglo's, it's you I don't like.
As for your list, you actually eat that crap? I thought its purpose was simply to scare away the invaders?

Johnsmith wrote on Sep 28^th, 2015 at 10:52am:

Lord Herbert wrote on Sep 28th, 2015 at 4:23am: ordinaryguy wrote on Sep 28th, 2015 at 4:07am: Lord Herbert wrote on Sep 28th, 2015 at 4:06am: Johnsmith wrote on Sep 26th, 2015 at 8:18pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 26th, 2015 at 8:08pm: I am of anglo-Scotish heritage - from a non-religious protestant background. that is a surprise  ... Don't let The Revelation that gandalf is a Pom spoil your day. There are more of us here ... Lots more ... Be Afraid ... Be VERY afraid ...  Yeah I thought that was a cracker ;D ;D ;D Like so many Italians, John Smith suffers from Terminal Anglophobia from when the Romans arrived in Britain and tasted the local food. Tripe Haggis Jellied eels Black Pudding Spotted Dick Pig's trotters Ox tongue Lumpy porridge Anglophobia? do be such a daft twit herb.... I like Anglo's, it's you I don't like. As for your list, you actually eat that crap? I thought its purpose was simply to scare away the invaders?

Spotted Dick??

Now I'm afraid. Very afraid. :-/

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 28^th, 2015 at 10:55am:

Spotted Dick?? Now I'm afraid. Very afraid

Herb loves dick ... he doesn't care if it has spots or a rash.

Johnsmith wrote on Sep 28^th, 2015 at 10:57am:

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 28th, 2015 at 10:55am: Spotted Dick?? Now I'm afraid. Very afraid Herb loves dick ... he doesn't care if it has spots or a rash.

I'm going to throw up now.  :'(

Super Nova wrote on Sep 28^th, 2015 at 3:41am:

Have you read every word in the Quran. I bet not.

Yadda said...
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1233665290/44#44

Quote:

I study the Koran [i.e. i search its contents for meaning], .....as i also study the Christian bible. You ask, '...have you read the Quran'. There is no point in 'reading' the Koran, as such, because the Koran is a series of unstructured 'sound bytes', of Muhammad's sayings / pronouncements. There is no narrative revealed in 'reading' the Koran. ..... ..... In contrast, the Jewish and Christian Bibles contain a series of narratives, and these narratives can be read, and made sense of, ....even by 'children'.

.





Super Nova wrote on Sep 28^th, 2015 at 3:41am:

It recognises the old testament and Abraham + moses plus the 10 commandments.

<------


That is B.S.

I do not know where you got such information from.

Moslems/ISLAM claim that OT scripture [and NT scripture] has been corrupted.

Therefore, moslems/ISLAM claim that OT scripture has absolutely no authority today.

Moslems respect only the Koran, as a holy, uncorrupted text.


more on this issue here....
The inerrant Koran???
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1295396564/0#0



Also, moslems do not follow or respect the OT 10 commandments.

Mohammed himself, broke  #4, and openly condoned breaking #6, #7, #8, #9, #10

Get your head screwed on first, before you go making such bizarre and unsupportable claims, re ISLAM/moslems.

IMAGE....
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-gvXwPghPsU4/TiV9dY_RIKI/AAAAAAAAC-k/yA0crbVWgvA/s320/10commandments.jpg




.




Mohammed was an adulterer.

According to the [official ISLAMIC] record of his own actions,            Mohammed was clearly a fornicator [and an adulterer], in a legal system that condemns fornication and adultery.

QUESTION;
So why wasn't Mohammed put to death by stoning ?



MOHAMMED'S EXAMPLE.....



Quote:

"We went out with Allah's Messenger" = = Mohammed was in the company of these men. "on the expedition to the Bi'l-Mustaliq and took captive some excellent Arab women" = = it was some form of raiding party, where they, 'took captive some excellent Arab women'. "and we desired them" = = hmmmm, i wonder what that means? "for we were suffering from the absence of our wives" = = ah, in the absence they wives, they desired these women for sex, to satisfy their sexual lust. "(but at the same time) we also desired ransom for them." = = in their minds, they sought to sexually 'use' these captive Arab women, and then let their menfolk redeem them. "So we decided to have sexual intercourse with them" = = yep, Allah's finest, sought to sexually 'use' these 'excellent' captive Arab women.

Those [above] extracts from the Hadith are cited, with references, here;

Bikeway rapist gets 25 years in jail
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1251431040/8#8





.





Super Nova wrote on Sep 28^th, 2015 at 3:41am:

References in the Quran to killing infidels is located in a section dealing with the trouble of the times. Taken out of historical context they have. Islam was tolerant off all religions under it's domain until recently. Jews, Christians ...etc were allowed to worship as they saw fit in their societies.

<------

This is total B.S.

ISLAM prohibits [and has always prohibited] any open display of religion that is not ISLAM itself.


"If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him;...."
Koran 3.85


"And fight with them until.....religion should be only for Allah,..."
Koran 2.193


"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123


"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 28^th, 2015 at 10:55am:

Johnsmith wrote on Sep 28th, 2015 at 10:52am: Lord Herbert wrote on Sep 28th, 2015 at 4:23am: ordinaryguy wrote on Sep 28th, 2015 at 4:07am: Lord Herbert wrote on Sep 28th, 2015 at 4:06am: Johnsmith wrote on Sep 26th, 2015 at 8:18pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 26th, 2015 at 8:08pm: I am of anglo-Scotish heritage - from a non-religious protestant background. that is a surprise  ... Don't let The Revelation that gandalf is a Pom spoil your day. There are more of us here ... Lots more ... Be Afraid ... Be VERY afraid ...  Yeah I thought that was a cracker ;D ;D ;D Like so many Italians, John Smith suffers from Terminal Anglophobia from when the Romans arrived in Britain and tasted the local food. Tripe Haggis Jellied eels Black Pudding Spotted Dick Pig's trotters Ox tongue Lumpy porridge Anglophobia? do be such a daft twit herb.... I like Anglo's, it's you I don't like. As for your list, you actually eat that crap? I thought its purpose was simply to scare away the invaders? Spotted Dick?? Now I'm afraid. Very afraid. :-/

Haggis?

Jellied Eel?

Tripe?

Why can't you people eat normal food like us wogs?

Ya know...like lamb, pork, beef, chicken or fish?

:-/ :-? :(

Actually Lisa, there is nothing there the wogs don't eat ... it's just that the poms have no idea how to cook it. Tripe, trotters, tongue, eels, puddings (that's the dick) are all used extensively in wog cooking  ... hagis is nothing special, stuffed tripe

Lord Herbert wrote on Sep 28^th, 2015 at 5:25am:

Contrary to gandalf's journey towards becoming a prisoner-of-the-mind to religious blackmail, I myself travelled in the opposite direction - towards the Light of rational, unfettered, liberal free-thinking in which I didn't allow my reasoning-powers to become hostage to delusional psychopathy. What does surprise me about Gandalf's Confession is why an intelligent fellow like him would feel the need to go shopping for an established religion in the first place.

Good question.

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 26^th, 2015 at 8:08pm:

Firstly, I was not born into a muslim family, I am of anglo-Scotish heritage - from a non-religious protestant background. I dabbled in atheism for a brief period but quickly came to the conclusion that I was lying to myself. And then I discovered Islam - which offers a far simpler explanation of God - He doesn't consist of different components which may or may not be separate depending on which theologian you talk to - he does not need an intermediary to communicate through,

How do you dabble in atheism?

Your god does need an intermediary to communicate according to your religion, how is it religious folks can claim god produced everything yet he is incapable of producing a coherent book ?

If people were creating a religion today would they have a book or a you beaut IPAD?

Johnsmith wrote on Sep 28^th, 2015 at 11:10am:

Actually Lisa, there is nothing there the wogs don't eat ... it's just that the poms have no idea how to cook it. Tripe, trotters, tongue, eels, puddings (that's the dick) are all used extensively in wog cooking  ... hagis is nothing special, stuffed tripe

I can tell you now John...I've never cooked/eaten any of the above.

Same goes for my mum and aunts...they've never cooked/eaten any of the above either.

Karnal wrote on Sep 28^th, 2015 at 11:10am:

Lord Herbert wrote on Sep 28th, 2015 at 5:25am: Contrary to gandalf's journey towards becoming a prisoner-of-the-mind to religious blackmail, I myself travelled in the opposite direction - towards the Light of rational, unfettered, liberal free-thinking in which I didn't allow my reasoning-powers to become hostage to delusional psychopathy. What does surprise me about Gandalf's Confession is why an intelligent fellow like him would feel the need to go shopping for an established religion in the first place. Good question.

Perhaps he is not intelligent after all  :P

Ummm....I think I better get out of here .....real quick   8-)

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 28^th, 2015 at 8:38am:

Lord Herbert wrote on Sep 28th, 2015 at 4:06am: Johnsmith wrote on Sep 26th, 2015 at 8:18pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 26th, 2015 at 8:08pm: I am of anglo-Scotish heritage - from a non-religious protestant background. that is a surprise  ... Don't let The Revelation that gandalf is a Pom spoil your day. There are more of us here ... Lots more ... Be Afraid ... Be VERY afraid ...  I'm more frightened of the fact that Gandalf doesn't know how to spell his heritage name. It's very telling.

No shyte ;D ;D ;D

Lord Herbert wrote on Sep 28^th, 2015 at 5:25am:

Contrary to gandalf's journey towards becoming a prisoner-of-the-mind to religious blackmail, I myself travelled in the opposite direction - towards the Light of rational, unfettered, liberal free-thinking in which I didn't allow my reasoning-powers to become hostage to delusional psychopathy. What does surprise me about Gandalf's Confession is why an intelligent fellow like him would feel the need to go shopping for an established religion in the first place. He seems to have actually taken home the 'Illustrated Religions of the World for Dummies' Buy-Now-Pay-Later catalogue. The established religions carry a lot of unnecessary and superfluous baggage with them that add nothing to the claim that there is a Benign Creator who looks over each and every one of us like a fly on the wall or a high definition CCTV. Gandalf bought it. He was sold on the whole box-and-dice that we know-and-love as 'Islam'. And of course, the more versed and knowledgeable one becomes about a particular subject - no matter how fanciful - the more does ones self-esteem depend upon this subject as a vehicle for ones ego. Given sufficient time, and with the proper kind of skilled therapy, most religionists such as gandalf can be de-cultified and returned to a normal and productive life, albeit with the occasional refresher on the couch. The existence of a God doesn't depend upon religious belief and the 'worship' of cowed congregations who attend church or the mosque as an insurance against the After-life.

He was born into islam of arab descent clearly. Just go through his posts on here and unfettered blind allegiance ignoring facts proving his own ideology absolutely nonsense. I have dealt with these blind followers of cults before and believe me good luck if you can make them see reason. Muslims pfft if they can actually start thinking for themselves thats their only hope. Other than that its a crap life, years wasted year after year on utter nonsense. 

The women are the most abused of all. Their life is utter shyte. The men can indulge. Spirituality, non existent. Its like a cheap terror version of the freemasons and women will do what they are told with worse than Nazi Like laws. Imagine wasting your whole life just to find out islam was all garbage. What a waste. Ignorance is bliss in Islam so is lying to prop that ignorance up.

Good to see you keeping an open mind, Matty.

Are you a liberal too?

Ah your good old pretend friend matty is in tow again I see.

Got anything to actually contribute ?

ordinaryguy wrote on Sep 28^th, 2015 at 2:34pm:

Ah your good old pretend friend matty is in tow again I see. Got anything to actually contribute ?

A mere question, dear.

Are you a liberal?

I'll take that as a no.

Gandalf, are you going to answer that question about your loyalty to Australia?

Good luck with that one Aussie, these are nevertheless the sort of people we have in this great country of ours these days. The future aint too bright.

ordinaryguy wrote on Sep 28^th, 2015 at 3:19pm:

Good luck with that one Aussie, these are nevertheless the sort of people we have in this great country of ours these days. The future aint too bright.

I am indeed very concerned that an apparently very moderate Muslim is hesitating over such a fundamental question.

Spot on.

As soon as he hesitated it was clear to me. Even if he came back and climbed aboard team Australia no one can remove the hesitating. That screams volumes about his character. I wouldn't trust him in the trenches at all I would steer clear until he was gone.

https://saboteur365.wordpress.com/2015/09/26/weird-looking-negro-demarrea-chante-barnes-29-arrested-for-brutal-beating-of-83-year-old-man-left-in-critical-condition/


Only blacks are victims. Or if not, then their race has nuffin' to do wiv nuffin.  Being b;ack is relevant ONLY if you are a victim.

If you punch a woman at a football game or beat up an 83 year old on the street for no reason, then your race, gender, shoe size etc are totally, totally irrelevant.

The comment at that that link speaks for many people, I imagine:

"I think at least half of America would go along with this youtube comment:

    i’ve had it with black people. i’ve just smacking had it with them. this was a black person and anyone that says different is a smacking black person too."


Race, of course, doesn't exist.

tut tut.

That's why gandalf decided upon anglo-Scotish heritage before replying to the post. As if.  ;D ;D ;D

Soren wrote on Sep 28^th, 2015 at 7:52pm:

If you punch a woman at a football game or beat up an 83 year old on the street for no reason, then your race, gender, shoe size etc are totally, totally irrelevant.

That's correct.

And that goes for all people, of all genders, and all colours.

Do you disagree?

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 28^th, 2015 at 7:56pm:

Soren wrote on Sep 28th, 2015 at 7:52pm: If you punch a woman at a football game or beat up an 83 year old on the street for no reason, then your race, gender, shoe size etc are totally, totally irrelevant. That's correct. And that goes for all people, of all genders, and all colours. Do you disagree?

It is only irrelevant if you are black perpetrator. Anything else - black victimhood, it's racially motivated.  If you are black perpetrator - race has nuffin' to do wiv nuffin'.

Little wonder you are on board with this idiocy. Nothing is beyond the pale for you, as long as it is stupid and despicable, you are all for it.

.

Soren wrote on Sep 27^th, 2015 at 8:26pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 27th, 2015 at 8:00pm: Aussie wrote on Sep 27th, 2015 at 7:49pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 27th, 2015 at 7:47pm: Aussie, I have no doubt that I would either have been interned, deported or executed long before you would have to face such a dilemma. And if you weren't? Aussie I'm dissapointed in you. You complain about another poster trying to bait me - this question is nothing less than an insult. You should know better. I won't dignify it with an answer. Why the hell are you miffed about Muslims' allegiances being called into question?  Get real Gandy.  Your coreligionists have been at open war with the West for centuries.

SOME people who I share no affinity with whatsoever, who just happen to claim (hijack) the same religion that I follow have been at open war with the west - I haven't.

The question is no different to me demanding you declare you won't open fire on peaceful unarmed left wing students - given what your "co-ideologist" did in Norway. No different whatsoever.

You and Aussie apparently can't understand how offensive this is unless its you who is unfairly pitted as the "other" - the alien who is assumed guilty until they stand up and publicly humiliate themselves. Its just a public shaming stunt which is as old as the hills. If it was about identifying actual genuine threats to society, you lot would be on to sprint for his calls to burn down mosques. But you're not - because you're hypocrites.

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 29^th, 2015 at 7:09am:

Soren wrote on Sep 27th, 2015 at 8:26pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 27th, 2015 at 8:00pm: Aussie wrote on Sep 27th, 2015 at 7:49pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 27th, 2015 at 7:47pm: Aussie, I have no doubt that I would either have been interned, deported or executed long before you would have to face such a dilemma. And if you weren't? Aussie I'm dissapointed in you. You complain about another poster trying to bait me - this question is nothing less than an insult. You should know better. I won't dignify it with an answer. Why the hell are you miffed about Muslims' allegiances being called into question?  Get real Gandy.  Your coreligionists have been at open war with the West for centuries. SOME people who I share no affinity with whatsoever, who just happen to claim (hijack) the same religion that I follow have been at open war with the west - I haven't. The question is no different to me demanding you declare you won't open fire on peaceful unarmed left wing students - given what your "co-ideologist" did in Norway. No different whatsoever. You and Aussie apparently can't understand how offensive this is unless its you who is unfairly pitted as the "other" - the alien who is assumed guilty until they stand up and publicly humiliate themselves. Its just a public shaming stunt which is as old as the hills. If it was about identifying actual genuine threats to society, you lot would be on to sprint for his calls to burn down mosques. But you're not - because you're hypocrites.

religion




Quote:

A form of insanity, such as schizophrenia. "Once we can look at religion objectively and impartially, it becomes entirely obvious that religion has all the characteristics of a form of insanity. To one degree or another the religious mind must accept, and believe in, another world; a supernatural or unnatural world, a world filled with all sorts of imaginary beings called gods, devils, angels, saints, demons, etc. These imaginary creatures are talked to, asked for favors, guidance, "signs", or miracles, and then blamed or thanked for natural events that follow. Except for the cloak of religion, such beliefs and actions would otherwise cause an individual to be judged insane, and committed to an institution for treatment." -Emmet F. Fields

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=religion&defid=840381

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 28^th, 2015 at 7:56pm:

Soren wrote on Sep 28th, 2015 at 7:52pm: If you punch a woman at a football game or beat up an 83 year old on the street for no reason, then your race, gender, shoe size etc are totally, totally irrelevant. That's correct. And that goes for all people, of all genders, and all colours. Do you disagree?

No! It's VERY relevant you obnoxious and clueless piece of sh1t.

Oh and get a job, you lazy bum!

Far out!

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 29^th, 2015 at 7:09am:

Soren wrote on Sep 27th, 2015 at 8:26pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 27th, 2015 at 8:00pm: Aussie wrote on Sep 27th, 2015 at 7:49pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 27th, 2015 at 7:47pm: Aussie, I have no doubt that I would either have been interned, deported or executed long before you would have to face such a dilemma. And if you weren't? Aussie I'm dissapointed in you. You complain about another poster trying to bait me - this question is nothing less than an insult. You should know better. I won't dignify it with an answer. Why the hell are you miffed about Muslims' allegiances being called into question?  Get real Gandy.  Your coreligionists have been at open war with the West for centuries. SOME people who I share no affinity with whatsoever, who just happen to claim (hijack) the same religion that I follow have been at open war with the west - I haven't. The question is no different to me demanding you declare you won't open fire on peaceful unarmed left wing students - given what your "co-ideologist" did in Norway. No different whatsoever. You and Aussie apparently can't understand how offensive this is unless its you who is unfairly pitted as the "other" - the alien who is assumed guilty until they stand up and publicly humiliate themselves. Its just a public shaming stunt which is as old as the hills. If it was about identifying actual genuine threats to society, you lot would be on to sprint for his calls to burn down mosques. But you're not - because you're hypocrites.

But the old boy's changed, G.

He's now a liberal.

Soren wrote on Sep 28^th, 2015 at 7:52pm:

https://saboteur365.wordpress.com/2015/09/26/weird-looking-negro-demarrea-chante-barnes-29-arrested-for-brutal-beating-of-83-year-old-man-left-in-critical-condition/ Only blacks are victims. Or if not, then their race has nuffin' to do wiv nuffin.  Being b;ack is relevant ONLY if you are a victim. If you punch a woman at a football game or beat up an 83 year old on the street for no reason, then your race, gender, shoe size etc are totally, totally irrelevant. The comment at that that link speaks for many people, I imagine: "I think at least half of America would go along with this youtube comment:     i’ve had it with black people. i’ve just smacking had it with them. this was a black person and anyone that says different is a smacking black person too." Race, of course, doesn't exist. tut tut.

No argument!!!!




A good, relevant post, S.

Aussie wrote on Sep 28^th, 2015 at 3:29pm:

ordinaryguy wrote on Sep 28th, 2015 at 3:19pm: Good luck with that one Aussie, these are nevertheless the sort of people we have in this great country of ours these days. The future aint too bright. I am indeed very concerned that an apparently very moderate Muslim is hesitating over such a fundamental question.

AND....


ordinaryguy wrote on Sep 28^th, 2015 at 3:45pm:

Spot on. As soon as he hesitated it was clear to me. Even if he came back and climbed aboard team Australia no one can remove the hesitating. That screams volumes about his character. I wouldn't trust him in the trenches at all I would steer clear until he was gone.

Moslems.

Wherever they go, [once the veil of their deceit has been penetrated/exposed] moslems engender only distrust in those they are around.

[And rightly so.]

It is simply the nature of the beast.



Moslems.

They are their own worst enemy,    ....and they are blind to it.

Poor things.

Hot place!!!



They are all smacking filthy, stinking, deceitful, moslems.

Nature of the beast.




.




IMAGE...
http://www.raymondibrahim.com/_admin/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/129.jpeg

Sheikh Yassir al-Burhami



Quote:

How Circumstance Dictates Islamic Behavior January 18, 2012 Preach Peace When Weak, Wage War When Strong "...all notions of peace with non-Muslims are based on circumstance. When Muslims are weak, they should be peaceful; when strong, they should go on the offensive."

Sheikh Yassir al-Burhami - an ISLAMIC scholar and Egyptian Salafi leader
http://www.raymondibrahim.com/from-the-arab-world/how-circumstance-dictates-islamic-behavior/



.




Quote:

Taqiyya “Speaking is a means to achieve objectives. If a praiseworthy aim is attainable through both telling the truth and lying, it is unlawful to accomplish it through lying because there is no need for it. When it is possible to achieve such an aim by lying but not by telling the truth, it is permissible to lie if attaining the goal is permissible..., and obligatory to lie if the goal is obligatory. ...One should compare the bad consequences entailed by lying to those entailed by telling the truth, and if the consequences of telling the truth are more damaging, one is entitled to lie…”

google




Google;
taqiyya - the muslim doctrine of deceit





.




Quote:

July 28, 2006 Islamic Dictionary for Infidels ...Robert Spencer, ..."Religious deception of unbelievers is indeed taught by the Qur'an itself: "Let not the believers take for friends or helpers unbelievers rather than believers. If any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah; except by way of precaution, that ye may guard yourselves from them" (Qur'an 3:28). In other words, don't make friends with unbelievers except to "guard yourselves from them": pretend to be their friends so that you can strengthen yourself against them. The distinguished Qur'anic commentator Ibn Kathir explains that this verse teaches that if "believers who in some areas or times fear for their safety from the disbelievers," they may "show friendship to the disbelievers outwardly, but never inwardly."

Google




.





Quote:

A Study in Muslim Doctrine "...while sincere friendship with non-Muslims is forbidden, insincere friendship - whenever beneficial to Muslims - is not."

http://www.meforum.org/2512/nidal-hasan-fort-hood-muslim-doctrine


Google;
we smile to the face "while our hearts curse them"





.





Quote:

When (and Why) Good Muslim Neighbors Turn Bad July 8, 2015 Here is how Islam's most authoritative ulema and exegetes explain Koran 3:28. Muhammad ibn Jarir at-Tabari (d. 923), author of a standard and authoritative commentary of the Koran, writes:     If you [Muslims] are under their [non-Muslims'] authority, fearing for yourselves, behave loyally to them with your tongue while harboring inner animosity for them ... [know that] Allah has forbidden believers from being friendly or on intimate terms with the infidels rather than other believers—except when infidels are above them [in authority]. Should that be the case, let them act friendly towards them while preserving their religion.

http://www.meforum.org/5371/why-muslims-bad-neighbors

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 29^th, 2015 at 7:09am:

Soren wrote on Sep 27th, 2015 at 8:26pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 27th, 2015 at 8:00pm: Aussie wrote on Sep 27th, 2015 at 7:49pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 27th, 2015 at 7:47pm: Aussie, I have no doubt that I would either have been interned, deported or executed long before you would have to face such a dilemma. And if you weren't? Aussie I'm dissapointed in you. You complain about another poster trying to bait me - this question is nothing less than an insult. You should know better. I won't dignify it with an answer. Why the hell are you miffed about Muslims' allegiances being called into question?  Get real Gandy.  Your coreligionists have been at open war with the West for centuries. SOME people who I share no affinity with whatsoever, who just happen to claim (hijack) the same religion that I follow have been at open war with the west - I haven't. The question is no different to me demanding you declare you won't open fire on peaceful unarmed left wing students - given what your "co-ideologist" did in Norway. No different whatsoever. You and Aussie apparently can't understand how offensive this is unless its you who is unfairly pitted as the "other" - the alien who is assumed guilty until they stand up and publicly humiliate themselves. Its just a public shaming stunt which is as old as the hills. If it was about identifying actual genuine threats to society, you lot would be on to sprint for his calls to burn down mosques. But you're not - because you're hypocrites.

Hypocrites, eh!!!!


Yadda paraphrases gandalf.....

"I'm just a poor righteous person, who has done nobody any harm.
I'm just an innocent, oppressed, moslem."




gandalf,

If you are such a virtuous and innocent individual,     ....why do you join yourself to ISLAM,       .....why do you associate yourself with ISLAM,      .....when it is undeniable, what ISLAM is, and what ISLAM encourages in the world    ?????




gandalf,

QUESTION;
Why are you still a moslem ?


When full well, we all know that    ---------- >

Dictionary;
Muslim = = a follower of Islam.




Mainstream ISLAMIC doctrine allows/agrees;

ALL non-moslems ['disbelievers'] are 'guilty' people.

And ISLAMIC doctrine allows/agrees that it is 'lawful' for a moslem to kill those, who do not believe, as they [moslems] believe.


n.b.
The date of the article below;     The 7/7 attack in London occurred in 2005.

e.g.

Quote:

Attack on London 'inevitable' April 19, 2004 "We don't make a distinction between civilians and non-civilians, innocents and non-innocents. Only between Muslims and unbelievers. And the life of an unbeliever has no value. It has no sanctity."

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/04/19/1082326119414.html?from=storyrhs&oneclick=true


n.b.
"...the life of an unbeliever has no value. It has no sanctity."


And moslems can draw authority for that mainstream doctrine, from Koran verses, such as.....

"There is for you an excellent example (to follow) in Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people: "We are clear of you and of whatever ye worship besides Allah: we have rejected you, and there has arisen, between us and you, enmity and hatred for ever,- unless ye believe in Allah and Him alone"....."
Koran 60:4


"....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98


"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11

Just out of curiousity Y, when you walk down the street - you know, in the real world - and you see muslims do you actually think to yourself "now there's a latent, wannabe homicidal maniac" - for each and every one of them?

Is that trully the world you live in?

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 29^th, 2015 at 11:13am:

Just out of curiousity Y, when you walk down the street - you know, in the real world - and you see muslims do you actually think to yourself "now there's a latent, wannabe homicidal maniac" - for each and every one of them? Is that trully the world you live in?

No. I feel sorry for them.

I'm overcome with pity.

Ahhh, I answered a question aimed at Yadda.

Apologies.

Bobby. wrote on Sep 29^th, 2015 at 7:24am:

religion Quote: A form of insanity, such as schizophrenia. "Once we can look at religion objectively and impartially, it becomes entirely obvious that religion has all the characteristics of a form of insanity. To one degree or another the religious mind must accept, and believe in, another world; a supernatural or unnatural world, a world filled with all sorts of imaginary beings called gods, devils, angels, saints, demons, etc. These imaginary creatures are talked to, asked for favors, guidance, "signs", or miracles, and then blamed or thanked for natural events that follow. Except for the cloak of religion, such beliefs and actions would otherwise cause an individual to be judged insane, and committed to an institution for treatment." -Emmet F. Fields http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=religion&defid=840381

WRONG. [....mistaken]


bobby,

If it is religion, and/or following religion, which is the reason and cause of insanity, then;  What is your excuse ????



.



bobby,

Religion, and/or following religion, has next to nothing to do with insanity, imo.



bobby,

When a human being chooses a wicked path in this life, THAT can be said to be a cause of insanity in an individual, imo.
[i.e. the individual becomes internally 'conflicted', and internally confused.]




Quote:

A simple definition of SANITY/INSANITY. Typically, an unrestrained sane person will act in ways which are harmless to others, and in ways which are creative, and productive [for himself, others, and society]. And typically, and conversely, an unrestrained INSANE person will act in ways which are harmful and destructive to himself, and, or, others around him.

'Normal' criminal behaviour - in mankind
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1293669294/0#0



see also.....
http://www.solitaryroad.com/a417.html

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 29^th, 2015 at 11:13am:

Just out of curiousity Y, when you walk down the street - you know, in the real world - and you see muslims do you actually think to yourself "now there's a latent, wannabe homicidal maniac" - for each and every one of them?

In a word;

Yes.

If we know the beast, then we know its nature.

Eh, gandalf!





IMAGE....
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00610/news-graphics-2006-_610974a.jpg

"Whoever insults a Prophet, KILL HIM!"

Moslems resident in the UK, teaching their children, the 'true path'.




.



AND.....

THIS YT.....

#ISIS child trained to behead Teddy bear
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeTeqbUobp0


Yeah, but that is obviously a filthy stinking infidel Teddy bear.

So it deserves to, DIE TEDDY, DIE!

Yadda.

Please, pretty please even...make your posts shorter.

Split them up into 2 if you must.

Try it...they'll be so much easier to read and respond to. Ok?

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 29^th, 2015 at 11:29am:

Yadda. Please, pretty please even...make your posts shorter. Split them up into 2 if you must. Try it...they'll be so much easier to read and respond to. Ok?

lisa,

I'll try.



Coz i'm a very trying person.

:)

Yadda

Well what about you *TRY* and love muslims for who they actually are, and not your own personal caricature of what they are?

Is it really a christian thing to label people you don't even know as wannabe latent homicidal maniacs?

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 29^th, 2015 at 11:13am:

Just out of curiousity Y, when you walk down the street - you know, in the real world - and you see muslims do you actually think to yourself "now there's a latent, wannabe homicidal maniac" - for each and every one of them? Is that trully the world you live in?

You are skirting around the problem again, in an attempt to cover up the truth about Islam. How would we know they were Ms, unless they were advertising it in some way? Anyone confusing ethnicity with belief is adding to the problem. (Like you) In many cases, people claiming faith are not practicing the tenets because they know they are stupid.  However, if a person claims to believe the crap in Koran, a real Muzzlim, you should check there are no sharp instruments in their reach.

ok issue, replace "walk down the street" with "pass by a mosque".

There fixed.

Now, tell me issue - do you see any inherent problems with Yadda's view that every single muslim in the world is a latent wannabe homocidal maniac? More broadly, do you have any concerns about such people roaming the streets with such attitudes? How long before one such person decides some pre-emptive action is required?

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 29^th, 2015 at 11:52am:

Well what about you *TRY* and love muslims for who they actually are, and not your own personal caricature of what they are? Is it really a christian thing to label people you don't even know as wannabe latent homicidal maniacs?

gandalf,

It is moslems who are 'labelling' themselves.



Dictionary;
Muslim = = a follower of Islam.





AND [....you seem to have missed the implications being made,        BY MOSLEMS,       the last time i posted these items   ------- >       ]


Mainstream ISLAMIC doctrine allows/agrees;

ALL non-moslems ['disbelievers'] are 'guilty' people.

And ISLAMIC doctrine allows/agrees that it is 'lawful' for a moslem to kill those, who do not believe, as they [moslems] believe.


n.b.
The date of the article below;     The 7/7 attack in London occurred in 2005.

e.g.

Quote:

Attack on London 'inevitable' April 19, 2004 "We don't make a distinction between civilians and non-civilians, innocents and non-innocents. Only between Muslims and unbelievers. And the life of an unbeliever has no value. It has no sanctity."

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/04/19/1082326119414.html?from=storyrhs&oneclick=true


n.b.
"...the life of an unbeliever has no value. It has no sanctity."


And moslems can draw authority for that mainstream doctrine, from Koran verses, such as.....

"There is for you an excellent example (to follow) in Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people: "We are clear of you and of whatever ye worship besides Allah: we have rejected you, and there has arisen, between us and you, enmity and hatred for ever,- unless ye believe in Allah and Him alone"....."
Koran 60:4


"....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98


"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11




.





God's word counsels everyone who loves God;

To hate evil and, [for our own welfare] to physically separate ourselves from those who we judge to be the purveyors of evil and violence.

Maybe you would disagree, on that course gandalf ?



2 Corinthians 6:17
Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
18  And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.


Revelation 18:4
And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.




Psalms 34:14
Depart from evil, and do good; seek peace, and pursue it.


Proverbs 22:24
Make no friendship with an angry man; and with a furious man thou shalt not go:
25  Lest thou learn his ways, and get a snare to thy soul.


Proverbs 29:22
An angry man stirreth up strife, and a furious man aboundeth in transgression.


Amos 5:14
Seek good, and not evil, that ye may live: and so the LORD, the God of hosts, shall be with you, as ye have spoken.
15  Hate the evil, and love the good, and establish judgment in the gate: it may be that the LORD God of hosts will be gracious unto the remnant of Joseph.


Romans 12:9
.....Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.


1 Peter 3:11
Let him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it.

eschew = = abstain.



Reading scripture teaches me, teaches my heart,        ....that peace among men can flourish, when/if a people have a love of truth and judgement [....of wrongdoers].


But am i not meant to judge others ?????????

If that is indeed the 'teaching', then how am i to ever meant discern the difference, between what is good, and what is evil ?

And yes, i believe that i am charged by God, to try to make that judgement.

That is my measure.

And that is your measure also gandalf,     .....THAT YOU CHOOSE, HAVE CHOSEN, TO FOLLOW ISLAM.



That is the 'message' which i have gleaned, from reading scripture.



Matthew 13:47
Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:
48  Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.
49  So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
50  And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.


Luke 3:8
Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
9  And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.





.




Sorry lisa, bobby.

another fail.

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 29^th, 2015 at 12:12pm:

Now, tell me issue - do you see any inherent problems with Yadda's view that every single muslim in the world is a latent wannabe homocidal maniac? More broadly, do you have any concerns about such people roaming the streets with such attitudes?

A wishy washy muslim would need a spark of faith to become a terrorist, it sounds like Yadda is right.

If we look at life in the Islamic state it does paint a bleak picture of muslims, marrying children,enslaving Yazidis and Christians,bashing wives,stoning people to death,hurling gays from tall buildings,chopping hands and heads off,killing dogs,stomping on Geckos,praying 5 times a day.
Do we really want devout muslims here?

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 29^th, 2015 at 11:52am:

Well what about you *TRY* and love muslims for who they actually are, and not your own personal caricature of what they are? Is it really a christian thing to label people you don't even know as wannabe latent homicidal maniacs?

gandalf,

It is moslems who are 'labelling' themselves.



Dictionary;
Muslim = = a follower of Islam.







God's word counsels everyone who loves God;

To hate evil and, [for our own welfare] to physically separate ourselves from those who we judge to be the purveyors of evil and violence.

Maybe you would disagree, on that course gandalf ?




God, is about righteousness, and peace.

Peace and joy, is what God promises to his 'children'.

.....not to criminals.



Psalms 97:10
Ye that love the LORD, hate evil:...


Psalms 106:3
Blessed are they that keep judgment, and he that doeth righteousness at all times.


Proverbs 15:9
The way of the wicked is an abomination unto the LORD: but he loveth him that followeth after righteousness.

Proverbs 17:15
He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the LORD.


Proverbs 28:4
They that forsake the law praise the wicked: but such as keep the law contend with them.
5  Evil men understand not judgment: but they that seek the LORD understand all things.



n.b.
God in the Bible says that men can choose,         .....to do whatever they like, so long as men understand that they will be judged for the consequences of their choices.

Crime and oppression, is what God hates.

Righteousness in man, is what God requires.

Everyone of us, will be judged.

And, i am not a man without sin.



Psalms 11:4
The LORD is in his holy temple, the LORD'S throne is in heaven: his eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men.
5  The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.


Psalms 146:8
The LORD openeth the eyes of the blind: the LORD raiseth them that are bowed down: the LORD loveth the righteous:

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 29^th, 2015 at 12:12pm:

Now, tell me issue - do you see any inherent problems with Yadda's view that every single muslim in the world is a latent wannabe homocidal maniac? More broadly, do you have any concerns about such people roaming the streets with such attitudes? How long before one such person decides some pre-emptive action is required?

Yeah, gandalf,

People like myself should be locked up,   .....for the safety of the broader community.

Right ?



For the crime, of expressing an opinion.

Right ?





Ideas are dangerous things gandalf.

And i think that you understand that.



And i am not inciting, anything,      .....except contemplation, and consideration,     ....of circumstances which are real and true.



Yadda said.....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1409991405/8#8

Quote:

Promoting and encouraging violent and unlawful acts is illegal. We live in a country in which the people supposedly respect the rule of law. Without widespread respect for the law of the land, we [our Australian society] would descend into being like Syria, Iraq, Egypt, Libya, Somalia, etc, etc - which is exactly what moslems are trying to achieve. Moslems want to destroy all of the institutions in Australia, which help to maintain a peaceful and functioning society. SUGGESTION; If you live in Australia and you don't like what ISLAM promotes          then you should contact your federal parliamentary representative - EXPLAIN TO HIM/HER WHY YOU DO NOT LIKE ISLAM AND MOSLEMS - and encourage your federal parliamentary representative to try to get ISLAM lawfully declared a proscribed [banned] group in Australia. Act within the law. Otherwise we are no better than moslems.

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 29^th, 2015 at 11:13am:

Just out of curiousity Y, when you walk down the street - you know, in the real world - and you see muslims do you actually think to yourself "now there's a latent, wannabe homicidal maniac" - for each and every one of them? Is that trully the world you live in?

Come on now, gandalf, there's no need to be disingenuous about this.

All Muslims are Carriers of the same Islamic infection that prompted fellow Muslims to crash planes into tall buildings and do other horrific things of a violent nature in the name of Allah.

Of course the Muslims passing you in the street are WAY more likely to be harbouring an Australian-born son or daughter at home who is getting fired-up by jihadist propaganda on the internet than the non-Muslims walking the same street.

Julia says there are now 120 Australian Muslims fighting for ISIS in the Middle East - twice as many as last year - and god knows how many sympathisers are lurking back here in our own suburbs.

When your own government believes the threat from Muslim youths here in Australia is so great that they need to hand out Instruction Guides to the teachers on how to spot these budding jihadists in the schools - then you know it's time to start viewing all Muslims with a certain amount of unspoken reserve.i

Lord Herbert wrote on Sep 29^th, 2015 at 12:54pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 29th, 2015 at 11:13am: Just out of curiousity Y, when you walk down the street - you know, in the real world - and you see muslims do you actually think to yourself "now there's a latent, wannabe homicidal maniac" - for each and every one of them? Is that trully the world you live in? Come on now, gandalf, there's no need to be disingenuous about this. All Muslims are Carriers of the same Islamic infection that prompted fellow Muslims to crash planes into tall buildings and do other horrific things of a violent nature in the name of Allah.

Right. And all knuckleheads are Carriers of the same Knucklehead infection that prompted fellow knucklehead Anders Breivik to shoot dozens of young holiday-makers in the prime of their lives and do other horrific things of a violent nature in the name of White Supremacy.

Yadda wrote on Sep 29^th, 2015 at 12:47pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 29th, 2015 at 12:12pm: Now, tell me issue - do you see any inherent problems with Yadda's view that every single muslim in the world is a latent wannabe homocidal maniac? More broadly, do you have any concerns about such people roaming the streets with such attitudes? How long before one such person decides some pre-emptive action is required? Yeah, gandalf, People like myself should be locked up,   .....for the safety of the broader community. Right ? For the crime, of expressing an opinion. Right ?

No, Y, that's FD's argument for Freeeeedom.

It is a jolly world, no?

Karnal wrote on Sep 29^th, 2015 at 1:38pm:

Right. And all knuckleheads are Carriers of the same Knucklehead infection that prompted fellow knucklehead Anders Breivik to shoot dozens of young holiday-makers in the prime of their lives and do other horrific things of a violent nature in the name of White Supremacy.

Your comparison is a dud. It hit the wall and didn't explode ... just slid down slowly like a raw egg.

'Anders Breivik' - he has been such a unique one-of-a-kind that we not only know his name but we can spell it too ...

Back to the drawing board. Come up with something a little less lame this time, please.