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The inerrant Koran??? (Read 17902 times)

Yadda

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The inerrant Koran???
Jan 19^th, 2011 at 10:22am

.
The inerrant Koran???

Contrary evidence is apparent.

EXAMPLE #1

Moslems in this age, make the claim that the Jewish Old Testament Bible, and the New Testament, are corrupted scriptures.
And yet, surprise, surprise, moslems also make the claim that the Koran is pristine and miraculously inerrant [without error].
/sarc off

And yet, and yet, and yet;
Within the 'inerrant' Koran, in many places, it is declared that 'the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus)', were revealed, and sent to Moses and Jesus, by Allah.
And many 'inerrant' Koran verses actually venerate the Jewish O.T. Bible, and the New Testament scriptures, as clearly being authentic scriptures.

i.e. At that time, when the Koran was being revealed to Mohammed, Allah declares [within the 'inerrant' Koran] that the Jewish O.T. Bible, and the New Testament scriptures, are authentic scriptures!!

And the Koran states very clearly, that those scriptures which had 'come before', to Moses and Jesus, had actually been protected by Allah! ..., 'confirming the scripture that came before it [i.e. before the Koran], and guarding it in safety' .

Yet today, moslems [contradicting the contents of the 'inerrant' Koran!!] dare to declare that the Jewish Old Testament Bible, and the New Testament, are corrupted scriptures!

How can this be discrepancy be explained?
This discrepancy is explained simply, as the mendacity of moslem scholars, wishing to denigrate and disparage, Judaism, and Christianity, in an attempt to deprive Judaism, and Christianity of their theological legitimacy.

2 Q's

Q1.
Don't these Koran verses [below] contradict the claims made by moslems of this age, that the Jewish O.T. Bible, and the New Testament scriptures, were, or have been, corrupted by Jews, and Christians?

Q2.
For if.....as moslems maintain, the Jewish O.T. Bible, and the New Testament scriptures were corrupted, by Jews, and Christians, where are the AUTHENTIC copies of these scriptures, which moslems themselves clearly venerated, as [their own] originating foundation documents state and declare?

+++
Here are some of the Koran verses, which refer to, 'the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus)'...

"Allah! There is no god but He,-the Living, the Self-Subsisting, Eternal.
It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment between right and wrong)."
Koran 3.2-3

"And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah.
Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein......
To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety:......."
Koran 5.46-48

"If only they had stood fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that was sent to them from their Lord, they would have enjoyed happiness from every side.........Those who believe (in the Qur'an), those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians and the Christians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness,- on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve."
Koran 5.66-69
n.b. In the above quote, note the use of the present tense, 'who follow'.

"Then, in their wake, We followed them up with (others of) Our messengers: We sent after them Jesus the son of Mary, and bestowed on him the Gospel;....."
Koran 57.27

"A group of Jews came and invited the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) to Quff. So he visited them in their school.
They said: AbulQasim, one of our men has committed fornication with a woman; so pronounce judgment upon them. They placed a cushion for the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) who sat on it and said: Bring the Torah. It was then brought. He then withdrew the cushion from beneath him and placed the Torah on it saying: I believed in thee and in Him Who revealed thee."
hadith/abudawud/ #038.4434
i.e.
The Hadith declares, that Mohammed revered a clearly UNCORRUPTED Torah, which Mohammed held in his hands.
n.b. "....I [Mohammed] believed in thee [the Torah] and in Him Who revealed thee. "
see also,
hadith/bukhari/ #008.082.809
hadith/muwatta/ #041.41.1.1

A PROPOSITION OF LOGIC;
To believe the moslem assertion, made today, that the Jewish O.T. Bible, and the New Testament scriptures have been corrupted, by Jews, and Christians, you have to believe that not one uncorrupted copy of either text survived [i.e. within a single moslem jurisdiction].

How likely is that, when ISLAMIC texts themselves, clearly state that these scriptures ['the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus)'], were protected by Allah, and venerated by Mohammed?

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: The inerrant Koran???
Reply #1 - Jan 19^th, 2011 at 10:24am

.
The inerrant Koran???

Contrary evidence is apparent.

EXAMPLE #2

"O Miriam, sister of Aaron, mother of Jesus!"

The 'inerrant' Koran is so 'confused' that it presents,
Miriam [Mary], the sister of Aaron [and Moses, Exodus 15:20], as the mother of, ...Jesus.

Read it yourself...

"O sister of Aaron!...."
Koran 19:27-34

Google,
quran mary the sister of aaron the mother of jesus

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: The inerrant Koran???
Reply #2 - Jan 19^th, 2011 at 10:29am

.
The inerrant Koran???

Contrary evidence is apparent.

EXAMPLE #3

The Koran states that Allah gave the gospel scripture, to Jesus.

The 'inerrant' Koran states it, so it must be true!
/sarc off

Dictionary;
gospel = = the record of Christ’s life and teaching in the first four books of the New Testament.

"And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah."
Koran 5.46
Koran 5.110

"Then, in their wake, We followed them up with (others of) Our messengers: We sent after them Jesus the son of Mary, and bestowed on him the Gospel;..."
Koran 57.27

And moslems claim that the contents of the Koran are the direct words of Allah, and thereby, moslems know that the Koran is inerrant.

Allah is such a clever god, to give the gospel to Jesus. Grin

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: The inerrant Koran???
Reply #3 - May 15^th, 2013 at 11:50am

polite_gandalf wrote on May 14^th, 2013 at 11:20pm:

The Quran makes it patently obvious that the jews of jewish and biblical tradition were the original rightly guided ones (ie the first "muslims"), through the prophets Abraham to Isaac, to Jacob, and his children (Israelites) - who then had the divine word revealed to them through the Torah - through the great prophet Moses (Musa).

Gandalf,

So according to moslems, where is the Torah ?

Because the [inerrant] Koran 5.046,48 states that "We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety:"

And Mohammed [himself] confirmed that the Torah which he had access to, was still revered.

Where is the Torah which Mohammed, and moslems revered ?
[n.b. Mohammed's reverence for the Torah, is cited in the hadith]

Why was the >> holy << Torah, allowed, by Allah, to be corrupted ???

So, Gandalf, wasn't the all powerful Allah, able to protect the revered Torah, any longer ?

Three Things About Islam
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1328405030/63#63
Quote:

Mohammed shows in the Hadith, that HE had access to an 'uncorrupted' OT bible, so where is it falah ???

Where is the moslem copy of 'uncorrupted' OT bible, which Mohammed venerated.

"A group of Jews came and invited the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) to Quff. So he visited them in their school.
They said: AbulQasim, one of our men has committed fornication with a woman; so pronounce judgment upon them. They placed a cushion for the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) who sat on it and said: Bring the Torah. It was then brought. He then withdrew the cushion from beneath him and placed the Torah on it saying: I believed in thee and in Him Who revealed thee."
hadith/abudawud/ #038.4434

Quote:

A PROPOSITION OF LOGIC;
To believe the moslem assertion, made today, that the Jewish O.T. Bible, and the New Testament scriptures have been corrupted, by Jews, and Christians, you have to believe that not one uncorrupted copy of either text survived [i.e. within a single moslem jurisdiction].

How likely is that, when ISLAMIC texts themselves, clearly state that these scriptures ['the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus)'], were protected by Allah, and venerated by Mohammed?

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1295396564/0#0

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: The inerrant Koran???
Reply #4 - May 15^th, 2013 at 11:51am

polite_gandalf wrote on May 14^th, 2013 at 11:20pm:

The Quran castigates the jews for rejecting the word of God in its final revelation (the Quran) - even though they had accepted and followed it through its previous revelations.

Yes, it is so.

#1,
The Jews rejected the Koran [as being a holy scripture, delivered from their God], and, the Jews rejected Mohammed's claim to be a prophet from their God.

And as a consequence of this rejection, Mohammed declared Allah's religious enmity towards the Jews.

A religious enmity towards the Jews, that continues to this day.

"....We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people:....."
Koran 5.32

"Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews."
hadithsunnah/muslim/ Book 041, Number 6985

Moslems must kill all of the Jews.

Every Jew.

But, collective punishment is OK.

Coz they are those mischievous Jews.

#2,
And [many] Jews today, still revere the Torah.

That, is a crime against Allah, coz Allah allowed the 'protected/guarded' Torah, to be corrupted.

It all makes sense, doesn't it! Tongue

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: The inerrant Koran???
Reply #5 - May 15^th, 2013 at 11:52am

polite_gandalf wrote on May 14^th, 2013 at 11:20pm:

The Quran makes it perfectly clear that islam is not a new religion - but merely the 'final version' of the word of God that had started with the Torah.

Gandalf,

IMO, it is certain that ISLAM is a new religion, wholly unconnected to Judaism and Christianity.

But the intellectual duplicity of ISLAM/moslem scholars is breathtaking wicked!

In the first breath [in an effort to give a validity to its own claim to divinity], ISLAM claims an 'evolutionary' connection to Judaism and Christianity, but then in the next breath ISLAM declares that, no, ISLAM is a repudiation of a corrupt Judaism and a corrupt Christianity !!

Dictionary;
repudiate = =
1 refuse to accept or be associated with.
2 deny the truth or validity of.

But, Israel is not cast off.

God's covenant people, are not cast off.

The God of Israel declares that, although 'he shall sit as a refiner and purifier' of his people, the children of Israel, [a remnant of his people] will never be destroyed.

Who are the remnant of God's people today, gandalf ?

Moslems ? LOL

Psalms 94:14
For the LORD will not cast off his people, neither will he forsake his inheritance.
15 But judgment shall return unto righteousness: and all the upright in heart shall follow it.

Jeremiah 31:37
Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.

Lamentations 3:31
For the Lord will not cast off for ever:

Malachi 3:6
For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

ISLAM is a new religion.

All a person need do to confirm this [in their heart], is to examine the scripture of firstly the original religion, and then examine the scripture of the new religion.

What happened Gandalf ?, did the God of the Torah have a personality transplant ?

SCRIPTURE OF OLD ORIGINAL RELIGION;

Quote:

Strangers under the law of Moses;

Exodus 12:49
One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

Exodus 22:21
Thou shalt neither vex a stranger, nor oppress him...

Exodus 23:9
Also thou shalt not oppress a stranger...

Leviticus 19:33
And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him.
34 But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself...

Leviticus 25:47-49
[these verses clearly speak of [and reveal that it was entirely 'lawful'] for Hebrews [themselves] to become bond servants [slaves], to prosperous strangers living among the Hebrews.]

Deuteronomy 1:16
And I charged your judges at that time, saying, Hear the causes between your brethren, and judge righteously between every man and his brother, and the stranger that is with him.

Deuteronomy 10:17-19
For the LORD your God... loveth the stranger, ...Love ye therefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.

Deuteronomy 24:17
Thou shalt not pervert the judgment of the stranger, nor of the fatherless; nor take a widow's raiment to pledge:
18 But thou shalt remember that thou wast a bondman in Egypt, and the LORD thy God redeemed thee thence: therefore I command thee to do this thing.

Deuteronomy 27:19
Cursed be he that perverteth the judgment of the stranger...

SCRIPTURE OF NEW RELIGION;

Quote:

All moslems readily accept their enmity against 'unbelievers', because ISLAM itself declares that 'unbelievers' who reject ISLAM, are not to be regarded as human beings.

Non-moslems who reject ISLAM, are to be regraded as sub-humans, for whom moslems should have no pity, but only enmity.
Koran 8:20-22
Koran 5:59-60
Koran 47:33-35

Advice from a different god, Allah, from the Koran, about 'unbelievers'....

"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11

"......the curse of Allah is on those without Faith."
Koran 2.089

"Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah:"
Koran 3.028

"O ye who believe! Take not for friends unbelievers rather than believers: Do ye wish to offer Allah an open proof against yourselves?"
Koran 4.144

"O ye who believe! fight the unbelievers who gird you about, and let them find firmness in you: and know that Allah is with those who fear Him."
Koran 9.123

"Do the Unbelievers think that they can take My servants as protectors besides Me? Verily We have prepared Hell for the Unbelievers for (their) entertainment."
Koran 18.102

"Muhammad is the messenger of Allah; and those who are with him are strong against Unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other......"
Koran 48.029

"O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell,- an evil refuge indeed."
Koran 9.073
Koran 66.009

"Unbelievers are unto you open enemies."
Koran 4.101

"Fighting [against unbelievers] is prescribed for you, and [if] ye dislike it.....Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
Koran 002.216

cited....
an eye-opening analysis of terrorism in Europe
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1294223444/46#46

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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polite_gandalf

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Re: The inerrant Koran???
Reply #6 - May 15^th, 2013 at 1:49pm

Yadda wrote on May 15^th, 2013 at 11:50am:

Because the [inerrant] Koran 5.046,48 states that "We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety:"

And Mohammed [himself] confirmed that the Torah which he had access to, was still revered.

Where is the Torah which Mohammed, and moslems revered ?

As far as I know its the same one. Muslims believe that much of the Torah (in its present form) has been embellished, but my understanding is that the core of it is the same message that the Quran refers to.

The Quran provides a good 'rule of thumb' for understanding which of the non-Quranic scriptures are genuine, and which are corrupted:

"Then do they not reflect upon the Quran? If it had been from [any] other than Allah, they would have found within it much contradiction"
4:82

Quote:

Why was the >> holy << Torah, allowed, by Allah, to be corrupted ???

So, Gandalf, wasn't the all powerful Allah, able to protect the revered Torah, any longer ?

God has given humans the freedom to corrupt whatever they want in this world - you of all people should understand that.

The "true" uncorrupted versions of all the scriptures are sitting there safely in heaven I would imagine. God merely revealed these to mankind through His prophets, who then dessiminated it to the whole of mankind. What humans choose to do with the physical paper that this revelation was recorded on is entirely up to them - as is Man's privilege. But whatever they do to it - rewrite it, throw it on the fire or piss on it - they are obviously never going to bring any harm to the true versions.

« Last Edit: May 15^th, 2013 at 5:09pm by polite_gandalf »

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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moses

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Re: The inerrant Koran???
Reply #7 - May 15^th, 2013 at 7:43pm

Which was created first Heaven or Earth?

qur'an 2:29: He it is Who created for you all that is in the earth. Then turned He to the heaven, and fashioned it as seven heavens. And He is knower of all things.

First earth and then heaven

However later on:
qur'an 79.26 : Verily in this is an instructive warning for whosoever feareth (Allah).

qur'an79.027 : What! Are ye the more difficult to create or the heaven (above)? (Allah) hath constructed it:

qur'an79.028 : On high hath He raised its canopy, and He hath given it order and perfection.

qur'an79.029 : And He made dark the night thereof, and He brought forth the morn thereof.

qur'an79.030 : And after that He spread the earth,

Now it's heaven was first and after that earth.
================================================================================
===============================

How many days for allah to create the earth?

qur'an 7:54 Lo! your lord is allah who created the heavens and the earth in six Days, then mounted He the Throne. He covereth the night with the day, which is in haste to follow it, and hath made the sun and the moon and the stars subservient by His command. His verily is all creation and commandment. Blessed be Allah, the Lord of the Worlds!

qur'an 10 3 Lo! your Lord is Allah Who created the heavens and the earth in six Days, then He established Himself upon the Throne, directing all things. There is no intercessor (with Him) save after His permission. That is Allah, your Lord, so worship Him. Oh, will ye not remind?

Both clearly state 6 days.

However later on:
qur'an41.9 : Say: Is it that ye deny Him Who created the earth in two Days? And do ye join equals with Him? He is the Lord of (all) the Worlds.

qur'an41.10 : He set on the (earth), mountains standing firm, high above it, and bestowed blessings on the earth, and measure therein all things to give them nourishment in due proportion, in four Days, in accordance with (the needs of) those who seek (Sustenance).

qur'an41.11 : Moreover He comprehended in His design the sky, and it had been (as) smoke: He said to it and to the earth: "Come ye together, willingly or unwillingly." They said: "We do come (together), in willing obedience."

qur'an41.12 : So He completed them as seven firmaments in two Days, and He assigned to each heaven its duty and command. And We adorned the lower heaven with lights, and (provided it) with guard. Such is the Decree of (Him) the Exalted in Might, Full of Knowledge.

So we have 2 days to create the earth, 4 days to fill the earth with mountains etc., 2 days to make the firmaments.

2 + 4 + 2 = 8 days to create heaven and earth
================================================================================
===============================

What was man created from?

qur'an 96:2 Created man, out of a (mere) clot of congealed blood:

So we have a blood clot

qur'an 21:30 Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens and the earth were of one piece, then We parted them, and we made every living thing of water? Will they not then believe?

qur'an 25:54And He it is Who hath created man from water, and hath appointed for him kindred by blood and kindred by marriage; for thy Lord is ever Powerful.

Or perhaps it was water

qur'an 15:26 We created man from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape;

Or maybe "sounding" (i.e. burned) clay

qur'an 3:59 Lo! the likeness of Jesus with Allah is as the likeness of Adam. He created him of dust, then He said unto him: Be! and he is.

qur'an 30:20 Among His Signs in this, that He created you from dust; and then,- behold, ye are men scattered (far and wide)!

Then again it could be Dust

qur'an 19:67 But does not man call to mind that We created him before out of nothing?

Nothing

qur'an16:4He has created man from a drop of thickened fluid ; and behold this same (man) becomes an open disputer!

A drop of thickened fluid

Take your pick from any of the above muslims don't know but they will kill you for not revering their stupidity
================================================================================
===============================

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Brian Ross Gold Member Offline Representative of me Posts: 39497	Re: The inerrant Koran??? Reply #8 - May 15^th, 2013 at 9:00pm So, Allah, an omnipotent being can't multi-task, Moses?
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moses Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6353	Re: The inerrant Koran??? Reply #9 - May 16^th, 2013 at 9:43pm Oh yes. we all know, allah loves multi-tasking. he instructed his devotees to perform his all time favourite sacred duty (killing innocent men women and children), by multi-tasking wherever and whenever possible.
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moses

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Re: The inerrant Koran???
Reply #10 - May 16^th, 2013 at 9:50pm

Who was the first muslim??

qur'an6:14Say: Shall I choose for a protecting friend other than Allah, the Originator of the heavens and the earth, Who feedeth and is never fed? Say:I am ordered to be the first to surrender (unto Him). And be not thou (O Muhammad) of the idolaters.

qur'an 6:163 He hath no partner. This am I commanded, and I am first of those who surrender (unto Him).

muhammad was the first

qur'an 7:143And when Moses came to Our appointed tryst and his Lord had spoken unto him, he said: My Lord! Show me (Thy Self), that I may gaze upon Thee. He said: Thou wilt not see Me, but gaze upon the mountain! If it stand still in its place, then thou wilt see Me. And when his Lord revealed (His) glory to the mountain He sent it crashing down. And Moses fell down senseless. And when he woke he said: Glory unto Thee! I turn unto Thee repentant, and I am the first of (true) believers.

Moses was the first

quran; 3.52 : When Jesus found Unbelief on their part He said: "Who will be My helpers to (the work of) Allah?" Said the disciples: "We are Allah's helpers: We believe in Allah, and do thou bear witness that we are Muslims.

Jesus disciples were over 600 years before muhammad, now they are muslims, maybe they are the first.

qur'an 2:127And remember Abraham and Isma'il raised the foundations of the House (With this prayer): "Our Lord! Accept (this service) from us: For Thou art the All-Hearing, the All-knowing.
qur'an 2.136 : Say ye: "We believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) prophets from their Lord: We make no difference between one and another of them: And we bow to Allah (in Islam)."

Abraham and Isma'il etc. etc. were thousands of years before muhammad, now they are credited with being muslims, or perhaps they are the first.

qur'an 2:37 Then Adam received from his Lord words (of revelation), and He relented toward him. Lo! He is the relenting, the Merciful.

This would make Adam the first to receive allah's word.

So who was the first muhammad, Adam, Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, take your pick islam doesn't know
==========================================================================

Was anyone sent to warn the people before muhammad?

qur'an10:47 To every people (was sent) a messenger: when their messenger comes (before them), the matter will be judged between them with justice, and they will not be wronged.

qur'an 16:36 For We assuredly sent amongst every People a messenger, (with the Command), "Serve Allah, and eschew Evil": of the People were some whom Allah guided, and some on whom error became inevitably (established). So travel through the earth, and see what was the end of those who denied (the Truth).

quran 35:24Verily We have sent thee in truth, as a bearer of glad tidings, and as a warner: and there never was a people, without a warner having lived among them (in the past).

All say messengers were sent to warn all people

However later on, in true fallible style:

quran 28:46 Nor wast thou at the side of (the Mountain of) Tur when we called (to Moses). Yet (art thou sent) as Mercy from thy Lord, to give warning to a people to whom no warner had come before thee: in order that they may receive admonition.

quran 32:3 Or do they say, "He has forged it"? Nay, it is the Truth from thy Lord, that thou mayest admonish a people to whom no warner has come before thee: in order that they may receive guidance.

qur'an 34:44And We have given them no scriptures which they study, nor sent We unto them, before thee, any warner.

qur'an 36:6 In order that thou mayest admonish a people, whose fathers had received no admonition, and who therefore remain heedless (of the Signs of Allah).

All say that muhammad was the first sent to warn the people, so once again allah hasn't got a clue.
==========================================================================

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Brian Ross Gold Member Offline Representative of me Posts: 39497	Re: The inerrant Koran??? Reply #11 - May 16^th, 2013 at 9:53pm *WHOOSH* straight over your head, Moses.
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Yadda

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Re: The inerrant Koran???
Reply #12 - May 16^th, 2013 at 10:50pm

moses wrote on May 16^th, 2013 at 9:50pm:

Who was the first muslim??

[snip....]
muhammad was the first

[snip....]
Moses was the first

[snip....]
Jesus disciples were over 600 years before muhammad, now they are muslims, maybe they are the first.

[snip....]
Abraham and Isma'il etc. etc. were thousands of years before muhammad, now they are credited with being muslims, or perhaps they are the first.

[snip....]
Adam the first to receive allah's word.

So who was the first muhammad, Adam, Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, take your pick islam doesn't know
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Was anyone sent to warn the people before muhammad?

.......quran 35:24Verily We have sent thee in truth, as a bearer of glad tidings, and as a warner: and there never was a people, without a warner having lived among them (in the past).

All say messengers were sent to warn all people

However later on, in true fallible style:

quran 28:46 Nor wast thou at the side of (the Mountain of) Tur when we called (to Moses). Yet (art thou sent) as Mercy from thy Lord, to give warning to a people to whom no warner had come before thee: in order that they may receive admonition.

quran 32:3 Or do they say, "He has forged it"? Nay, it is the Truth from thy Lord, that thou mayest admonish a people to whom no warner has come before thee: in order that they may receive guidance.

qur'an 34:44And We have given them no scriptures which they study, nor sent We unto them, before thee, any warner.

qur'an 36:6 In order that thou mayest admonish a people, whose fathers had received no admonition, and who therefore remain heedless (of the Signs of Allah).

All say that muhammad was the first sent to warn the people, so once again allah hasn't got a clue.
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Indeed moses.

The 'inerrant' Koran is so 'confused' on so many issues.

And the 'inerrant' Koran is claimed by moslems, to be divinely inspired. Cheesy

Poor moslems.

But, moslems choose to believe and follow it.

+++

Psalms 5:1
Give ear to my words, O LORD, consider my meditation.
2 Hearken unto the voice of my cry, my King, and my God: for unto thee will I pray.
3 My voice shalt thou hear in the morning, O LORD; in the morning will I direct my prayer unto thee, and will look up.
4 For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee.
5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
6 Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.

Psalms 51:7
Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.
8 Make me to hear joy and gladness; that the bones which thou hast broken may rejoice.
9 Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities.
10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.
13 Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee.

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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moses

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Australian Politics

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Re: The inerrant Koran???
Reply #13 - May 18^th, 2013 at 5:05pm

Thanks Yadda, there are a lot of intriguing verses in the Bible.

Quote:

Genesis 16:11 And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Behold, thou art with child and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the LORD hath heard thy affliction.

Genesis 16:12 And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.

muslims all agree that the Arabic / islamic nation descended from Ishmael.

So the parallel for then and now is:

Old Testament prophecy; Ishmael will be the enemy of all mankind.

TODAY (fact); islam / muslims are the enemy of all mankind.

It is interesting that the prophecy used the words his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him as today we see muslims kill muslims, muslims kill non-muslims. They indeed are the enemy of every man.

Now if we jump to an *end of times* prophecy in the Bible we see:

Quote:

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were
beheaded
for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

The challenging thing about this verse is that it refers specifically to Beheading as the means of executing those who believe in Christ and the Word of God. (no other method is mentioned)

The ONLY People on this planet who still behead are?: muslims!

They are world's enemy, (not only by prophecy) but evidenced by the world wide terrorist cells / attacks.

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Brian Ross Gold Member Offline Representative of me Posts: 39497	Re: The inerrant Koran??? Reply #14 - May 18^th, 2013 at 5:21pm I thought you claimed that Christians don't refer to The Old Testament, Moses? Does this mean you are not a true Christian?
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