I have come up with what I think is a workable solution to the halal rorts issue:

Any religious certification that is required by (foreign) law can only be provided as a free service.

Under this scenario, the service would end up being funded (if necessary) by donations from the foreign companies that import the beef, whose complaints would hold more sway with the government that is imposing the fee. It would end interference in local business by foreign religious governments. The people conducting the inspections would then be governed by charities regulations.

Of course, FD this ignores rather conveniently the needs of the local Muslim population, now doesn't it?   ::)

You're a genius Brian.

Brian Ross wrote on Apr 4^th, 2015 at 7:19pm:

Of course, FD this ignores rather conveniently the needs of the local Muslim population, now doesn't it?   ::)

I think what FD is saying is that he thinks local halal certifiers should be free to offer local producers halal accreditation, and that local producers should be free to purchase it - without fear of intimidation.

ban the death cult islam

Sprintcyclist wrote on Apr 4^th, 2015 at 8:31pm:

ban the death cult islam

Death cult. Islam. Ban them. Kill them.

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 4^th, 2015 at 7:55pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Apr 4th, 2015 at 7:19pm: Of course, FD this ignores rather conveniently the needs of the local Muslim population, now doesn't it?   ::) I think what FD is saying is that he thinks local halal certifiers should be free to offer local producers halal accreditation, and that local producers should be free to purchase it - without fear of intimidation.

I found this interesting article gandalf.

Was also interested by this quote

"“In NSW, animals processed under halal requirements are stunned prior to slaughter using methods that comply with Australian standards.”

http://www.begadistrictnews.com.au/story/2983902/halal-certification-misunderstood-says-bega-cheese-national-accrediting-body/

Halal certification misunderstood says Bega Cheese, national accrediting body

Halal certification misunderstood says Bega Cheese, national accrediting body

wally1 wrote on Apr 5^th, 2015 at 7:12am:

Halal certification misunderstood says Bega Cheese, national accrediting body

I think we all know the most important question here - were they standing in a line?

Dirty Paki Khunt wrote on Apr 4^th, 2015 at 8:56pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Apr 4th, 2015 at 8:31pm: ban the death cult islam Death cult. Islam. Ban them. Kill them.

Nuke them.   :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D

Freediver hates Islam so much that he would see Australia bankrupted in losing the billions of dollars in halal exports.

You know your hate is big when you would destroy yourself to get at your enemy.

I am sorry that you feel such hate Freediver. Did your mother not give you enough nurturing as a child?

http://www.sociopathworld.com/2009/02/how-sociopaths-are-made.html

What makes you think it would destroy the industry?

Julius Abbott wrote on Apr 8^th, 2015 at 8:28am:

You know your hate is big when you would destroy yourself to get at your enemy. I am sorry that you feel such hate Freediver. Did your mother not give you enough nurturing as a child?

No, it was Abu. He abused FD so badly it made FD chase Abu for pages, pulling Abu up on every word and subjecting him mercilessly to "questions".

These dastardly Muselmen. Why can’t they just leave us alone?

Dirty Paki Khunt wrote on Apr 8^th, 2015 at 8:55am:

Julius Abbott wrote on Apr 8th, 2015 at 8:28am: You know your hate is big when you would destroy yourself to get at your enemy. I am sorry that you feel such hate Freediver. Did your mother not give you enough nurturing as a child? No, it was Abu. He abused FD so badly it made FD chase Abu for pages, pulling Abu up on every word and subjecting him mercilessly to "questions". These dastardly Muselmen. Why can’t they just leave us alone?

Perhaps they enjoy taking our jobs, smashing our windows, stealing our white, virginal women?   ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D

Julius Abbott wrote on Apr 8^th, 2015 at 8:28am:

Freediver hates Islam so much that he would see Australia bankrupted in losing the billions of dollars in halal exports. You know your hate is big when you would destroy yourself to get at your enemy.

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

All that stand between us and complete ruin is halal certification!!!

More exaggeration and hyperbole by the incontinent left. Like the celebrated headline:

"Hundreds of Muslims formed a protective ring around Oslo Synagou.......  ZZZZzzzzz........"

Soren wrote on Apr 8^th, 2015 at 1:13pm:

All that stand between us and complete ruin is halal certification!!!

and the irony of that statement seems to fly right over Soren's head.

http://s25.postimg.org/rq3e4mav3/sticker_sml_gif_resize_489_492.gif

I rest my case.

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 8^th, 2015 at 2:53pm:

Soren wrote on Apr 8th, 2015 at 1:13pm: All that stand between us and complete ruin is halal certification!!! and the irony of that statement seems to fly right over Soren's head.

Don't be daft. I know there are no jokes in Islam but you are going too far - it's one of the 'no Islam to see here' boys that said that eyewateringly stupid thing.

Quote:

Julius Abbott wrote Today at 9:28am: Freediver hates Islam so much that he would see Australia bankrupted in losing the billions of dollars in halal exports. You know your hate is big when you would destroy yourself to get at your enemy.

So Soren, I take it you are rather disdainful of the idea that halal certification represents a threat to our civilization?

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 8^th, 2015 at 7:01pm:

So Soren, I take it you are rather disdainful of the idea that halal certification represents a threat to our civilization?

Halal certification belongs to an alien civilisation, not to ours.

http://i.imgur.com/wQGzOra.jpg

wally1 wrote on Apr 8^th, 2015 at 9:56pm:

http://i.imgur.com/wQGzOra.jpg

Yeah, still worried.

Soren wrote on Apr 8^th, 2015 at 7:44pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 8th, 2015 at 7:01pm: So Soren, I take it you are rather disdainful of the idea that halal certification represents a threat to our civilization? Halal certification belongs to an alien civilisation, not to ours.

Exactly. We like our blue-veined stool halal-free, thank you very much.

Miam miam.

Soren wrote on Apr 8^th, 2015 at 7:44pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 8th, 2015 at 7:01pm: So Soren, I take it you are rather disdainful of the idea that halal certification represents a threat to our civilization? Halal certification belongs to an alien civilisation, not to ours.

Nope, no Islamophobia there at all, your honour!   ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D

What? Isn't Islam completely different from Western civilisation?

Or are you trying to suggest that there is no significant difference between Islam and Western liberal, secular culture?

Soren wrote on Apr 17^th, 2015 at 9:51am:

What? Isn't Islam completely different from Western civilisation? Or are you trying to suggest that there is no significant difference between Islam and Western liberal, secular culture?

Nope.  Nice strawman argument there Soren.  Did it take you long to erect it?   ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D

|dev|null wrote on Apr 17^th, 2015 at 11:18am:

Nice strawman argument there Soren.  Did it take you long to erect it?   ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D

Miam miam.

|dev|null wrote on Apr 17^th, 2015 at 11:18am:

Soren wrote on Apr 17th, 2015 at 9:51am: What? Isn't Islam completely different from Western civilisation? Or are you trying to suggest that there is no significant difference between Islam and Western liberal, secular culture? Nope.  Nice strawman argument there Soren.  Did it take you long to erect it?   ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D

Halal is not a western civilisational requirement but that of an alien, Islamic culture.  The West and Islam are very different, halal is one example of the difference.

Why is that 'strawman' m0ron?

Soren wrote on Apr 17^th, 2015 at 1:59pm:

|dev|null wrote on Apr 17th, 2015 at 11:18am: Soren wrote on Apr 17th, 2015 at 9:51am: What? Isn't Islam completely different from Western civilisation? Or are you trying to suggest that there is no significant difference between Islam and Western liberal, secular culture? Nope.  Nice strawman argument there Soren.  Did it take you long to erect it?   ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D Halal is not a western civilisational requirement but that of an alien, Islamic culture.  The West and Islam are very different, halal is one example of the difference. Why is that 'strawman' m0ron?

Because no one has suggested what you claimed they had suggested, Soren, except for you and your fellow Islamophobes...   ::)

freediver wrote on Apr 4^th, 2015 at 6:49pm:

"the halal rorts issue"

There's a rorts issue?    :-/

Resolute wrote on Apr 8^th, 2015 at 3:04pm:

http://s25.postimg.org/rq3e4mav3/sticker_sml_gif_resize_489_492.gif

http://s25.postimg.org/rq3e4mav3/sticker_sml_gif_resize_489_492.gif

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Z4EBkuYPXz4/Uj_rey__dJI/AAAAAAABCbA/i6-w7Y4Z1mA/s640/Beware+of+false+knowledge+it+is+more+dangerous+than+ignorance2.jpg

Brian Ross wrote on Apr 17^th, 2015 at 6:31pm:

Soren wrote on Apr 17th, 2015 at 1:59pm: |dev|null wrote on Apr 17th, 2015 at 11:18am: Soren wrote on Apr 17th, 2015 at 9:51am: What? Isn't Islam completely different from Western civilisation? Or are you trying to suggest that there is no significant difference between Islam and Western liberal, secular culture? Nope.  Nice strawman argument there Soren.  Did it take you long to erect it?   ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D Halal is not a western civilisational requirement but that of an alien, Islamic culture.  The West and Islam are very different, halal is one example of the difference. Why is that 'strawman' m0ron? Because no one has suggested what you claimed they had suggested, Soren, except for you and your fellow Islamophobes...   ::)

Now now, that’s descriminatory.

The old boy is just a phobe.

Soren wrote on Apr 17^th, 2015 at 1:59pm:

|dev|null wrote on Apr 17th, 2015 at 11:18am: Soren wrote on Apr 17th, 2015 at 9:51am: What? Isn't Islam completely different from Western civilisation? Or are you trying to suggest that there is no significant difference between Islam and Western liberal, secular culture? Nope.  Nice strawman argument there Soren.  Did it take you long to erect it?   ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D Halal is not a western civilisational requirement but that of an alien, Islamic culture.  The West and Islam are very different, halal is one example of the difference. Why is that 'strawman' m0ron?

What the hell is a "western civilisational requirement"?

Money, i think is a western civilisational (sic) requirement.

We make money off of certifying food as halal.

We make money off of certifying food as kosher.

We make money off of certifying food as organic.

We make money off of certifying food as gluten free.

We make money out of certifying food as free range.

Those who care will shop accordingly, Those who don't will not. Where exactly is the problem?

mothra wrote on Apr 18^th, 2015 at 2:51am:

Soren wrote on Apr 17th, 2015 at 1:59pm: |dev|null wrote on Apr 17th, 2015 at 11:18am: Soren wrote on Apr 17th, 2015 at 9:51am: What? Isn't Islam completely different from Western civilisation? Or are you trying to suggest that there is no significant difference between Islam and Western liberal, secular culture? Nope.  Nice strawman argument there Soren.  Did it take you long to erect it?   ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D Halal is not a western civilisational requirement but that of an alien, Islamic culture.  The West and Islam are very different, halal is one example of the difference. Why is that 'strawman' m0ron? What the hell is a "western civilisational requirement"? Money, i think is a western civilisational (sic) requirement. We make money off of certifying food as halal. We make money off of certifying food as kosher. We make money off of certifying food as organic. We make money off of certifying food as gluten free. We make money out of certifying food as free range. Those who care will shop accordingly, Those who don't will not. Where exactly is the problem?

They’re Moslems.

That makes 'em dangerous!  Bobby, where is that rope of yours?   ;)

This case examplified the problem as well as any:

Halal meat served in three-quarters of council-supported schools in Waltham Forest
First published Friday 5 April 2013 in News

Three-quarters of schools under Waltham Forest Council control serve only Halal meat, the Guardian can reveal.

A total of 46 schools and academies supported by the local authority order only Halal meat from Waltham Forest Catering, their supplier.

Just one school serves both Halal and non-Halal meat and 15 serve meat from animals slaughtered using ‘standard’ methods, a Guardian enquiry has discovered.

The news comes after a row erupted at Larkswood Primary School in New Road, Chingford, last month when parents were informed meat served there would be replaced by food prepared according to the rituals of Islam from mid-April.

Parents said they had no issue with Muslim children practicing their faith and eating Halal meat but did not want these religious beliefs imposed on their own sons and daughters.

http://www.guardian-series.co.uk/news/10334813.Halal_meat_served_in_three_quarters_of_council_supported_schools/


I am sure the point will still elude you all but you can't say I haven't at least explain it to you.

Soren wrote on Apr 18^th, 2015 at 1:39pm:

This case examplified the problem as well as any

Two points, Soren:

1. Its a story from the UK.
2. Why does it matter?   ::)

Brian Ross wrote on Apr 18^th, 2015 at 1:42pm:

Soren wrote on Apr 18th, 2015 at 1:39pm: This case examplified the problem as well as any Two points, Soren: 1. Its a story from the UK. 2. Why does it matter?   ::)

I put it in red and highlighted it - and knew you would still miss it.

Soren wrote on Apr 18^th, 2015 at 3:25pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Apr 18th, 2015 at 1:42pm: Soren wrote on Apr 18th, 2015 at 1:39pm: This case examplified the problem as well as any Two points, Soren: 1. Its a story from the UK. 2. Why does it matter?   ::) I put it in red and highlighted it - and knew you would still miss it.

So, Soren, could it be that I needed to read YOUR views on the issue.

Oh, wait, I know exactly what you'll type.  More Islamophobia.    ::)

Soren wrote on Apr 18^th, 2015 at 1:39pm:

Parents said they had no issue with Muslim children practicing their faith and eating Halal meat but did not want these religious beliefs imposed on their own sons and daughters.

No religious beliefs are imposed on the children.

They just eat the meat.

They don't have to do, or say, anything whatsoever in relation to religion.

There's nothing to see here, Sore End.  Move along.

Soren wrote on Apr 18^th, 2015 at 3:25pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Apr 18th, 2015 at 1:42pm: Soren wrote on Apr 18th, 2015 at 1:39pm: This case examplified the problem as well as any Two points, Soren: 1. Its a story from the UK. 2. Why does it matter?   ::) I put it in red and highlighted it - and knew you would still miss it.

Any rational person who is not plagued by rabid Islamophobia would have missed how this has any anything to "imposing" any religion on anyone

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 18^th, 2015 at 5:32pm:

Soren wrote on Apr 18th, 2015 at 3:25pm: Brian Ross wrote on Apr 18th, 2015 at 1:42pm: Soren wrote on Apr 18th, 2015 at 1:39pm: This case examplified the problem as well as any Two points, Soren: 1. Its a story from the UK. 2. Why does it matter?   ::) I put it in red and highlighted it - and knew you would still miss it. Any rational person who is not plagued by rabid Islamophobia would have missed how this has any anything to "imposing" any religion on anyone

SO why the f Vck aren't you happy to eat ordinary Australian meat if 'imposing' religious values has nuffin' to do wiv nuffin'?? 

Why is your 'religious value' so important?

You Muslims are the biggest, most shameless opportunists and hypocrites going, milking the tinted minority scam for all its worth.

Don't the Muslim migrants and converts know that this is NOT a Muslim country? Why are they 'imposing' their religious values on everyone?

Soren wrote on Apr 18^th, 2015 at 7:55pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 18th, 2015 at 5:32pm: Soren wrote on Apr 18th, 2015 at 3:25pm: Brian Ross wrote on Apr 18th, 2015 at 1:42pm: Soren wrote on Apr 18th, 2015 at 1:39pm: This case examplified the problem as well as any Two points, Soren: 1. Its a story from the UK. 2. Why does it matter?   ::) I put it in red and highlighted it - and knew you would still miss it. Any rational person who is not plagued by rabid Islamophobia would have missed how this has any anything to "imposing" any religion on anyone SO why the f Vck aren't you happy to eat ordinary Australian meat if 'imposing' religious values has nuffin' to do wiv nuffin'??  Why is your 'religious value' so important? You Muslims are the biggest, most shameless opportunists and hypocrites going, milking the tinted minority scam for all its worth. Don't the Muslim migrants and converts know that this is NOT a Muslim country? Why are they 'imposing' their religious values on everyone?

And this, coming from a Lutheran who insists they shave their beards and wear leiderhosen.

Dirty Paki Khunt wrote on Apr 18^th, 2015 at 8:45pm:

Soren wrote on Apr 18th, 2015 at 7:55pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 18th, 2015 at 5:32pm: Soren wrote on Apr 18th, 2015 at 3:25pm: Brian Ross wrote on Apr 18th, 2015 at 1:42pm: Soren wrote on Apr 18th, 2015 at 1:39pm: This case examplified the problem as well as any Two points, Soren: 1. Its a story from the UK. 2. Why does it matter?   ::) I put it in red and highlighted it - and knew you would still miss it. Any rational person who is not plagued by rabid Islamophobia would have missed how this has any anything to "imposing" any religion on anyone SO why the f Vck aren't you happy to eat ordinary Australian meat if 'imposing' religious values has nuffin' to do wiv nuffin'??  Why is your 'religious value' so important? You Muslims are the biggest, most shameless opportunists and hypocrites going, milking the tinted minority scam for all its worth. Don't the Muslim migrants and converts know that this is NOT a Muslim country? Why are they 'imposing' their religious values on everyone? And this, coming from a Lutheran who insists they shave their beards and wear leiderhosen.

I wonder if he'd be willing to eat Kosher?   ::)

Brian Ross wrote on Apr 18^th, 2015 at 8:52pm:

Dirty Paki Khunt wrote on Apr 18th, 2015 at 8:45pm: Soren wrote on Apr 18th, 2015 at 7:55pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 18th, 2015 at 5:32pm: Soren wrote on Apr 18th, 2015 at 3:25pm: Brian Ross wrote on Apr 18th, 2015 at 1:42pm: Soren wrote on Apr 18th, 2015 at 1:39pm: This case examplified the problem as well as any Two points, Soren: 1. Its a story from the UK. 2. Why does it matter?   ::) I put it in red and highlighted it - and knew you would still miss it. Any rational person who is not plagued by rabid Islamophobia would have missed how this has any anything to "imposing" any religion on anyone SO why the f Vck aren't you happy to eat ordinary Australian meat if 'imposing' religious values has nuffin' to do wiv nuffin'??  Why is your 'religious value' so important? You Muslims are the biggest, most shameless opportunists and hypocrites going, milking the tinted minority scam for all its worth. Don't the Muslim migrants and converts know that this is NOT a Muslim country? Why are they 'imposing' their religious values on everyone? And this, coming from a Lutheran who insists they shave their beards and wear leiderhosen. I wonder if he'd be willing to eat Kosher?   ::)

only if it's been circumcised  :D :D

Soren wrote on Apr 18^th, 2015 at 7:55pm:

SO why the f Vck aren't you happy to eat ordinary Australian meat

I'm very happy to eat ordinary Australian meat - thats been halal certified.

That preference of mine has nothing to do with imposing my religion on others.

I can't be bothered reading through this but has anyone that is whining about halal food bothered to whine about Kosher food too?

Soren wrote on Apr 18^th, 2015 at 7:55pm:

Why are they 'imposing' their religious values on everyone?

They're not.

skippy. wrote on Apr 19^th, 2015 at 7:20am:

I can't be bothered reading through this but has anyone that is whining about halal food bothered to whine about Kosher food too?

Of course not!  How dare you to associate the food laws of our loyal Jewish cousins to that of the filthy Muslims.

I say we deport such people, immediately!   ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D

skippy. wrote on Apr 19^th, 2015 at 7:20am:

I can't be bothered reading through this but has anyone that is whining about halal food bothered to whine about Kosher food too?

Kosher food isn't FORCED upon people. I want to be able choose what I pay for, not have Muslims make that choice for me!

Resolute wrote on Apr 20^th, 2015 at 11:47am:

skippy. wrote on Apr 19th, 2015 at 7:20am: I can't be bothered reading through this but has anyone that is whining about halal food bothered to whine about Kosher food too? Kosher food isn't FORCED upon people. I want to be able choose what I pay for, not have Muslims make that choice for me!

So, you think you should be allowed to purchase food that was not covered by the Australian Standards on how it was prepared for your consumption, at the supermarket?  Really?   ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D :D :D

|dev|null wrote on Apr 20^th, 2015 at 11:53am:

Resolute wrote on Apr 20th, 2015 at 11:47am: skippy. wrote on Apr 19th, 2015 at 7:20am: I can't be bothered reading through this but has anyone that is whining about halal food bothered to whine about Kosher food too? Kosher food isn't FORCED upon people. I want to be able choose what I pay for, not have Muslims make that choice for me! So, you think you should be allowed to purchase food that was not covered by the Australian Standards on how it was prepared for your consumption, at the supermarket?  Really?   ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D :D :D

Halal certification is paid for by food producers, if they give in to being blackmailed by standover merchants, the government has nothing to do with requiring producers to be Halal unless they have now decided to finance the building of mosques and financing Islamic schools........dopey.

Resolute wrote on Apr 20^th, 2015 at 11:47am:

Kosher food isn't FORCED upon people.

Either is Halal.

You are under no obligation to purchase the food.

Resolute wrote on Apr 20^th, 2015 at 12:04pm:

|dev|null wrote on Apr 20th, 2015 at 11:53am: Resolute wrote on Apr 20th, 2015 at 11:47am: skippy. wrote on Apr 19th, 2015 at 7:20am: I can't be bothered reading through this but has anyone that is whining about halal food bothered to whine about Kosher food too? Kosher food isn't FORCED upon people. I want to be able choose what I pay for, not have Muslims make that choice for me! So, you think you should be allowed to purchase food that was not covered by the Australian Standards on how it was prepared for your consumption, at the supermarket?  Really?   ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D :D :D Halal certification is paid for by food producers, if they give in to being blackmailed by standover merchants, the government has nothing to do with requiring producers to be Halal unless they have now decided to finance the building of mosques and financing Islamic schools........dopey.

Who do you think pays for any classification system?  Ultimately the customer.   You can choose to buy and pay it or not.  No one forces you to accept Halalel food, no one stands over you can makes you purchase it.  Time to wake up to what you're saying.   ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D

If there was demand for specifically non-halal food there would be a market. The reality is almost no one gives a sh*t about yet another stamp to reassure a particular group of consumers.

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 20^th, 2015 at 12:25pm:

Resolute wrote on Apr 20th, 2015 at 11:47am: Kosher food isn't FORCED upon people. Either is Halal. You are under no obligation to purchase the food.

But when that's all that is available, you are.

That's the f Vcking point, you nice hideous people.


Thank you for remaining complete m0rons (I can't believe m0ron is now no-PC) and making this discussion go on for another few centuries. nice people have always been with us and you are now the proud standard-bearers of the 'nice person over here' banner.

Thank you.

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 20^th, 2015 at 2:24pm:

If there was demand for specifically non-halal food there would be a market. The reality is almost no one gives a sh*t about yet another stamp to reassure a particular group of consumers.

You give a sh*t and I don't want to fall in line with your standards.  Just as you vigorously do not want to fall in line with my standards.

The whole debate is about people waking up to your unwillingness to compromise on religious grounds.

Soren wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 7:18pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 20th, 2015 at 2:24pm: If there was demand for specifically non-halal food there would be a market. The reality is almost no one gives a sh*t about yet another stamp to reassure a particular group of consumers. You give a sh*t and I don't want to fall in line with your standards.

You don’t have to dine on Halal stools, old chap. Feel free to have one of mine.

Miam miam.

I for one am going to seek out non hilal foods. I'm not buying food dedicated to a murderous pedophile.

Happy Lucky wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 8:36pm:

I for one am going to seek out non hilal foods. I'm not buying food dedicated to a murderous pedophile.

So you believe in it all then?

If not, how can words uttered over a poor condemned animal mean anything to you at all?

I think you give the scary Muslim folk way too much power over you Happy.

Soren wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 7:18pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 20th, 2015 at 2:24pm: If there was demand for specifically non-halal food there would be a market. The reality is almost no one gives a sh*t about yet another stamp to reassure a particular group of consumers. You give a sh*t and I don't want to fall in line with your standards.  Just as you vigorously do not want to fall in line with my standards. The whole debate is about people waking up to your unwillingness to compromise on religious grounds.

Who's not compromising here?

mothra wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 10:41pm:

Happy Lucky wrote on Apr 23rd, 2015 at 8:36pm: I for one am going to seek out non hilal foods. I'm not buying food dedicated to a murderous pedophile. So you believe in it all then? If not, how can words uttered over a poor condemned animal mean anything to you at all? I think you give the scary Muslim folk way too much power over you Happy.

well it does mean something to a lot of people, you dont condemn the people who want the words uttered over the animal, why would you condemn those who dont?

rhino wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 10:54pm:

mothra wrote on Apr 23rd, 2015 at 10:41pm: Happy Lucky wrote on Apr 23rd, 2015 at 8:36pm: I for one am going to seek out non hilal foods. I'm not buying food dedicated to a murderous pedophile. So you believe in it all then? If not, how can words uttered over a poor condemned animal mean anything to you at all? I think you give the scary Muslim folk way too much power over you Happy. well it does mean something to a lot of people, you dont condemn the people who want the words uttered over the animal, why would you condemn those who dont?

I don't condemn anybody. But what is the big deal?

If the words mean something to you ... awesome ... if they don't just pretend they never happened.

Is your steak going to taste any different?

You're just a spinless pussy, mothra.

Soren wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 7:14pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 20th, 2015 at 12:25pm: Resolute wrote on Apr 20th, 2015 at 11:47am: Kosher food isn't FORCED upon people. Either is Halal. You are under no obligation to purchase the food. But when that's all that is available, you are.

It's not all that's available.

Crisis over.

Once more for the slow learners at the back of the class ...


http://i473.photobucket.com/albums/rr96/Herbert_04/cookies.png

link

Lord Herbert wrote on Apr 24^th, 2015 at 10:16am:

Once more for the slow learners at the back of the class ... http://i473.photobucket.com/albums/rr96/Herbert_04/cookies.png link

Herbie's trying his hand at comedy this morning (already been out for his morning troll).

Accusing others of being "slow learners", and then posting a link to, wait for it ... The Pickering Post.

I certainly had a bit of chuckle.

Anyway, if you honestly believe that Halal certification funds terrorism, stop buying Hala food.

The choice is yours.

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 24^th, 2015 at 10:25am:

Lord Herbert wrote on Apr 24th, 2015 at 10:16am: Once more for the slow learners at the back of the class ... http://i473.photobucket.com/albums/rr96/Herbert_04/cookies.png link Herbie's trying his hand at comedy this morning (already been out for his morning troll). Accusing others of being "slow learners", and then posting a link to, wait for it ... The Pickering Post. I certainly had a bit of chuckle. Anyway, if you honestly believe that Halal certification funds terrorism, stop buying Hala food. The choice is yours.

Sensei knows this.  He is just following The Way.   ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D

Freediver's personal stable of trolls, Taggers, and graffiti artists have arrived to vandalise his thread.

|dev|null wrote on Apr 24^th, 2015 at 10:27am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 24th, 2015 at 10:25am: Lord Herbert wrote on Apr 24th, 2015 at 10:16am: Once more for the slow learners at the back of the class ... http://i473.photobucket.com/albums/rr96/Herbert_04/cookies.png link Herbie's trying his hand at comedy this morning (already been out for his morning troll). Accusing others of being "slow learners", and then posting a link to, wait for it ... The Pickering Post. I certainly had a bit of chuckle. Anyway, if you honestly believe that Halal certification funds terrorism, stop buying Hala food. The choice is yours. Sensei knows this.  He is just following The Way.   ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3dzcceyg41qfw2dno1_500.gif

mothra wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 11:05pm:

[ If the words mean something to you ... awesome ... if they don't just pretend they never happened. Is your steak going to taste any different?

Are you saying that to Muslims?

rhino wrote on Apr 24^th, 2015 at 11:40am:

mothra wrote on Apr 23rd, 2015 at 11:05pm: [ If the words mean something to you ... awesome ... if they don't just pretend they never happened. Is your steak going to taste any different? Are you saying that to Muslims?

They don't seem to be complaining.

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 24^th, 2015 at 10:25am:

Lord Herbert wrote on Apr 24th, 2015 at 10:16am: Once more for the slow learners at the back of the class ... http://i473.photobucket.com/albums/rr96/Herbert_04/cookies.png link Herbie's trying his hand at comedy this morning (already been out for his morning troll). Accusing others of being "slow learners", and then posting a link to, wait for it ... The Pickering Post. I certainly had a bit of chuckle. Anyway, if you honestly believe that Halal certification funds terrorism, stop buying Hala food. The choice is yours.

Absolute crap! There is no choice as far as Muslims are concerned, that is the problem nitwit. If all the smacking producers and retailers decide that they must be Halal certified, what bloody choice do non Muslims have? If Muslims want Halal, they should open their own shops; they should have their own abattoirs. This is not an Islamic country, we should not have our choices restricted by bombastic twats who demand companies be Halal or they will restrict their export markets.

Why do western companies have to pay a fee to build mosques and Islamic schools? Oil rich Muslim countries who should pay for their own smacking places of worship (and jihadi indoctrination) and schools where they are taught to subjugate western values and behead non Muslims, oh yes and molest women and children!

Peccahead, that's just what you are, a dickhead!

Resolute wrote on Apr 24^th, 2015 at 12:01pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 24th, 2015 at 10:25am: Lord Herbert wrote on Apr 24th, 2015 at 10:16am: Once more for the slow learners at the back of the class ... http://i473.photobucket.com/albums/rr96/Herbert_04/cookies.png link Herbie's trying his hand at comedy this morning (already been out for his morning troll). Accusing others of being "slow learners", and then posting a link to, wait for it ... The Pickering Post. I certainly had a bit of chuckle. Anyway, if you honestly believe that Halal certification funds terrorism, stop buying Hala food. The choice is yours. Absolute crap! There is no choice ...

Yes, there is.

You're becoming hysterical.

You're just a silly prick.

Resolute wrote on Apr 24^th, 2015 at 12:01pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 24th, 2015 at 10:25am: Lord Herbert wrote on Apr 24th, 2015 at 10:16am: Once more for the slow learners at the back of the class ... http://i473.photobucket.com/albums/rr96/Herbert_04/cookies.png link Herbie's trying his hand at comedy this morning (already been out for his morning troll). Accusing others of being "slow learners", and then posting a link to, wait for it ... The Pickering Post. I certainly had a bit of chuckle. Anyway, if you honestly believe that Halal certification funds terrorism, stop buying Hala food. The choice is yours. Absolute crap! There is no choice as far as Muslims are concerned, that is the problem nitwit.

Why is it a problem if Muslims want to follow Islamic teachings?
Do you have a problem with Catholics who chose not to eat meat on Fridays in Lent?


Resolute wrote on Apr 24^th, 2015 at 12:01pm:

If all the smacking producers and retailers decide that they must be Halal certified, what bloody choice do non Muslims have?

Not all producers and retailers have decided that they must be Halal certified.  Only those that see a commercial advantage in it.

Why is this a problem for you?




Resolute wrote on Apr 24^th, 2015 at 12:01pm:

If Muslims want Halal, they should open their own shops; they should have their own abattoirs.

I am sure many have.

But why do you want other food producers to limit their profits by missing out on a significant market?

Are you a Communist?


Resolute wrote on Apr 24^th, 2015 at 12:01pm:

This is not an Islamic country, we should not have our choices restricted by bombastic twats who demand companies be Halal or they will restrict their export markets.

Your choices are not restricted.  You are free to not buy halal products if Moslems frighten you so much.

Just as companies are free to choose to seek a market advantage for their products if they wish.

Why do you want to dictate to companies who they can sell their products to?


Resolute wrote on Apr 24^th, 2015 at 12:01pm:

Why do western companies have to pay a fee to build mosques and Islamic schools?

Western companies don't have to pay a fee to build mosques and Islamic schools.  The have to pay a fee to have their products halal certified.  Just as they have to pay a fee to have their products kosher certified. Or to receive a tick from the Heart Foundation.  And they do this because there is an economic benefit in expanding their market.

If Muslim's frighten you so much.  Don't buy halal certified products.

Pretty simple

Personally - I am frightened by Andrew Bolt.  So I won't buy anything advertised on Channel 10.  That is my choice.
I refuse to pay the "Andrew Bolt Tax" that companies that advertise during his show have to pay for TV time, and may presumably pass on to their customers via product pricing.


Resolute wrote on Apr 24^th, 2015 at 12:01pm:

Oil rich Muslim countries who should pay for their own smacking places of worship

They do


Resolute wrote on Apr 24^th, 2015 at 12:01pm:

(and jihadi indoctrination) and schools where they are taught to subjugate western values and behead non Muslims, oh yes and molest women and children!

Oh dear.  Your xenophobic paranoia is showing

Resolute wrote on Apr 24^th, 2015 at 12:01pm:

Peccahead, that's just what you are, a dickhead!

Champaign comedy!

Lord Herbert wrote on Apr 24^th, 2015 at 10:16am:

Once more for the slow learners at the back of the class ... http://i473.photobucket.com/albums/rr96/Herbert_04/cookies.png link

Why is this woman perpetuating lies about Muslims, Sensei?

Quote:

The Liverpool Mosque: The ISIS flag, used by the terrorists responsible for thousands of murders across Iraq and Syria, was auctioned at this mosque.

Except it was proved not to be an "ISIS flag".

Why does she claim:

Quote:

In 2012 the Islamic school of Canberra (AFIC) was embroiled in controversy because of relatives being employed to do jobs with a great deal of Government funding.

Talk about innuendo...   ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D :D :D

Resolute wrote on Apr 24^th, 2015 at 12:01pm:

If Muslims want Halal, they should open their own shops ...

I'm pretty sure they have.


http://statics.192.com/estreet/original/large/2252/22521815.jpg

|dev|null wrote on Apr 24^th, 2015 at 1:16pm:

Talk about innuendo...

Sir Booby's Italian lover?     :-/

ad hom removed

God help us and me in particular.
I've gone out and purchased Marmite, in order to avoid the dreaded Halal Certification that Vegemite has.
Then, not looking at the dreaded bar codes of 94 and 61 and trying to avoid Vegemite and the Halal Certification, I get the bar codes commencing with 94 and 61 indicating that Marmite is made in New Zealand.
So what to do ?
Easy peazy, chuck out the Marmite crap made in NZ and go with the Halal Certified Vegemite.

DO NOT PURCHASE N.Z. MADE PRODUCTS . It's un Australian :P :P :P :P :P

Remember bar codes 94 and 61. DO NOT PURCHASE. as it is N.Z. made crap.

Disco 2 wrote on May 9^th, 2015 at 7:46pm:

God help us and me in particular. I've gone out and purchased Marmite, in order to avoid the dreaded Halal Certification that Vegemite has. Then, not looking at the dreaded bar codes of 94 and 61 and trying to avoid Vegemite and the Halal Certification, I get the bar codes commencing with 94 and 61 indicating that Marmite is made in New Zealand. So what to do ? Easy peazy, chuck out the Marmite crap made in NZ and go with the Halal Certified Vegemite. DO NOT PURCHASE N.Z. MADE PRODUCTS . It's un Australian :P :P :P :P :P Remember bar codes 94 and 61. DO NOT PURCHASE. as it is N.Z. made crap.

Don’t tell Sprint that, Matty. He’ll get the cranks.

Who in hell eats marmite anyway, disgusting stuff.

rhino wrote on May 10^th, 2015 at 12:54am:

Who in hell eats marmite anyway, disgusting stuff.

SSsssh!  Sensei may hear you!  You do not want him to think you have abandoned your cultural roots by abandoning Marmite!  You may be subjected to The Way!   ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D

Halal Certification is making Australia billions of dollars and costs the average Australian nothing. And half of you clowns want to get rid of it? Are you high?

Raven wrote on May 22^nd, 2015 at 11:56am:

Halal Certification is making Australia billions of dollars and costs the average Australian nothing. And half of you clowns want to get rid of it? Are you high?

WATCH: Charlie Pickering Takes On Cory Bernardi And Halal Truthers -

https://newmatilda.com/2015/05/21/watch-charlie-pickering-takes-cory-bernardi-and-halal-truthers

Very amusing and raises some good points.

Raven likes the senator's reply to the show on twitter


Quote:

@charliepick made me laugh tonight but why didn't show the unstunned slaughter of livestock as part of his expose?  Is he vegetarian?

And Charlie's response


Quote:

Hey @corybernardi - glad you enjoyed it. Happy for you to call an enquiry into animal cruelty in all abbotoires.

Raven wrote on May 22^nd, 2015 at 11:56am:

Halal Certification is making Australia billions of dollars and costs the average Australian nothing. And half of you clowns want to get rid of it? Are you high?

i dont want to get rid of it, I want the choice. You know, free country, democracy and all that inconsequential stuff.

rhino wrote on May 22^nd, 2015 at 1:13pm:

Raven wrote on May 22nd, 2015 at 11:56am: Halal Certification is making Australia billions of dollars and costs the average Australian nothing. And half of you clowns want to get rid of it? Are you high? i dont want to get rid of it, I want the choice. You know, free country, democracy and all that inconsequential stuff.

You do have the choice if you don't want to eat it then don't eat it.

rhino wrote on May 22^nd, 2015 at 1:13pm:

Raven wrote on May 22nd, 2015 at 11:56am: Halal Certification is making Australia billions of dollars and costs the average Australian nothing. And half of you clowns want to get rid of it? Are you high? i dont want to get rid of it, I want the choice. You know, free country, democracy and all that inconsequential stuff.

You do have a choice - either you purchase the item that is Halal or you don't.  No one is forcing you to have a Halal item.

|dev|null wrote on May 22^nd, 2015 at 1:17pm:

rhino wrote on May 22nd, 2015 at 1:13pm: Raven wrote on May 22nd, 2015 at 11:56am: Halal Certification is making Australia billions of dollars and costs the average Australian nothing. And half of you clowns want to get rid of it? Are you high? i dont want to get rid of it, I want the choice. You know, free country, democracy and all that inconsequential stuff. You do have a choice - either you purchase the item that is Halal or you don't.  No one is forcing you to have a Halal item.

I should have the same right to eat vegemite as anyone else, you dont even realise you are arguing for an erosion of civil rights.

Raven wrote on May 22^nd, 2015 at 11:56am:

Halal Certification is making Australia billions of dollars and costs the average Australian nothing. And half of you clowns want to get rid of it? Are you high?

Wut?  How can an extra layer of certification cost "nothing"?  More to the point, how can something make billions of dollars, yet cost nothing?

rhino wrote on May 22^nd, 2015 at 2:30pm:

|dev|null wrote on May 22nd, 2015 at 1:17pm: rhino wrote on May 22nd, 2015 at 1:13pm: Raven wrote on May 22nd, 2015 at 11:56am: Halal Certification is making Australia billions of dollars and costs the average Australian nothing. And half of you clowns want to get rid of it? Are you high? i dont want to get rid of it, I want the choice. You know, free country, democracy and all that inconsequential stuff. You do have a choice - either you purchase the item that is Halal or you don't.  No one is forcing you to have a Halal item. I should have the same right to eat vegemite as anyone else, you dont even realise you are arguing for an erosion of civil rights.

How so?  I see your argument as fatous and Islamophobic.  Who cares if a yeast extract is OK for Muslims to eat or not?   ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D

... wrote on May 22^nd, 2015 at 2:32pm:

Raven wrote on May 22nd, 2015 at 11:56am: Halal Certification is making Australia billions of dollars and costs the average Australian nothing. And half of you clowns want to get rid of it? Are you high? Wut?  How can an extra layer of certification cost "nothing"?  More to the point, how can something make billions of dollars, yet cost nothing?

Ever hear of "economies of scale"?   ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D

|dev|null wrote on May 22^nd, 2015 at 2:37pm:

... wrote on May 22nd, 2015 at 2:32pm: Raven wrote on May 22nd, 2015 at 11:56am: Halal Certification is making Australia billions of dollars and costs the average Australian nothing. And half of you clowns want to get rid of it? Are you high? Wut?  How can an extra layer of certification cost "nothing"?  More to the point, how can something make billions of dollars, yet cost nothing? Ever hear of "economies of scale"?   ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D

Yep.

http://i.imgur.com/xNMMeTc.jpg

rhino wrote on May 22^nd, 2015 at 2:30pm:

|dev|null wrote on May 22nd, 2015 at 1:17pm: rhino wrote on May 22nd, 2015 at 1:13pm: Raven wrote on May 22nd, 2015 at 11:56am: Halal Certification is making Australia billions of dollars and costs the average Australian nothing. And half of you clowns want to get rid of it? Are you high? i dont want to get rid of it, I want the choice. You know, free country, democracy and all that inconsequential stuff. You do have a choice - either you purchase the item that is Halal or you don't.  No one is forcing you to have a Halal item. I should have the same right to eat vegemite as anyone else, you dont even realise you are arguing for an erosion of civil rights.

Are you serious

You do have that right, however you are exercising your right not to eat it. Vegemite hasn't changed their recipe to suit muslims, all they've done is paid to show their product does not contain things muslims can't eat. Just like a company will pay for a heart foundation tick or a made in Australia logo. It makes good business sense, as is their right. You know, free country, democracy and all that inconsequential stuff.

Raven wrote on May 22^nd, 2015 at 7:30pm:

rhino wrote on May 22nd, 2015 at 2:30pm: |dev|null wrote on May 22nd, 2015 at 1:17pm: rhino wrote on May 22nd, 2015 at 1:13pm: Raven wrote on May 22nd, 2015 at 11:56am: Halal Certification is making Australia billions of dollars and costs the average Australian nothing. And half of you clowns want to get rid of it? Are you high? i dont want to get rid of it, I want the choice. You know, free country, democracy and all that inconsequential stuff. You do have a choice - either you purchase the item that is Halal or you don't.  No one is forcing you to have a Halal item. I should have the same right to eat vegemite as anyone else, you dont even realise you are arguing for an erosion of civil rights. Are you serious You do have that right, however you are exercising your right not to eat it. Vegemite hasn't changed their recipe to suit muslims, all they've done is paid to show their product does not contain things muslims can't eat. Just like a company will pay for a heart foundation tick or a made in Australia logo. It makes good business sense, as is their right. You know, free country, democracy and all that inconsequential stuff.

silly arguement. made in Australia is just stating where its made. And the heart foundation tick has nothing to do with forcing me to conform to someone elses religious beliefs.

... wrote on May 22^nd, 2015 at 2:32pm:

Raven wrote on May 22nd, 2015 at 11:56am: Halal Certification is making Australia billions of dollars and costs the average Australian nothing. And half of you clowns want to get rid of it? Are you high? Wut?  How can an extra layer of certification cost "nothing"?  More to the point, how can something make billions of dollars, yet cost nothing?

Because the cost of the certification is so low the price is not passed on to the consumer. As Coles said halal certification lowers prices for consumers because it increases the market.

As for making us billions of dollars, the people spending those billions are overseas muslims and if we don't have a certification we can't export to them

... wrote on May 22^nd, 2015 at 2:32pm:

Raven wrote on May 22nd, 2015 at 11:56am: Halal Certification is making Australia billions of dollars and costs the average Australian nothing. And half of you clowns want to get rid of it? Are you high? Wut?  How can an extra layer of certification cost "nothing"?  More to the point, how can something make billions of dollars, yet cost nothing?

Because the cost of the certification is so low the price is not passed on to the consumer. As Coles said halal certification lowers prices for consumers because it increases the market.

As for making us billions of dollars, the people spending those billions are overseas muslims and if we don't have a certification we can't export to them

who is saying exports cant be halal certified? Straw man alert.

rhino wrote on May 22^nd, 2015 at 7:33pm:

Raven wrote on May 22nd, 2015 at 7:30pm: rhino wrote on May 22nd, 2015 at 2:30pm: |dev|null wrote on May 22nd, 2015 at 1:17pm: rhino wrote on May 22nd, 2015 at 1:13pm: Raven wrote on May 22nd, 2015 at 11:56am: Halal Certification is making Australia billions of dollars and costs the average Australian nothing. And half of you clowns want to get rid of it? Are you high? i dont want to get rid of it, I want the choice. You know, free country, democracy and all that inconsequential stuff. You do have a choice - either you purchase the item that is Halal or you don't.  No one is forcing you to have a Halal item. I should have the same right to eat vegemite as anyone else, you dont even realise you are arguing for an erosion of civil rights. Are you serious You do have that right, however you are exercising your right not to eat it. Vegemite hasn't changed their recipe to suit muslims, all they've done is paid to show their product does not contain things muslims can't eat. Just like a company will pay for a heart foundation tick or a made in Australia logo. It makes good business sense, as is their right. You know, free country, democracy and all that inconsequential stuff. silly arguement. made in Australia is just stating where its made. And the heart foundation tick has nothing to do with forcing me to conform to someone elses religious beliefs.

Silly argument eating halal is not forcing you to conform to someone else's religious beliefs

Raven wrote on May 22^nd, 2015 at 7:41pm:

Silly argument eating halal is not forcing you to conform to someone else's religious beliefs

if thats the case then why the need for halal certification at all? If its not used to conform to religious beliefs then why do the Muslims need it? Put a bit more thought into your posts next time.

rhino wrote on May 22^nd, 2015 at 8:39pm:

If its not used to conform to religious beliefs then why do the Muslims need it?

Shifting the goalposts rhino - your original point wasn't about muslims conforming, but you being forced to conform with them. Which you are not.

polite_gandalf wrote on May 22^nd, 2015 at 9:19pm:

rhino wrote on May 22nd, 2015 at 8:39pm: If its not used to conform to religious beliefs then why do the Muslims need it? Shifting the goalposts rhino - your original point wasn't about muslims conforming, but you being forced to conform with them. Which you are not.

Homo has also argued he doesn’t care about eating Halal at all. For Homo, this is about stopping Muslims - whatever it takes.

Of course he keeps moving the goalposts. Homo’s playing a totally different game.

Raven wrote on May 22^nd, 2015 at 7:37pm:

... wrote on May 22nd, 2015 at 2:32pm: Raven wrote on May 22nd, 2015 at 11:56am: Halal Certification is making Australia billions of dollars and costs the average Australian nothing. And half of you clowns want to get rid of it? Are you high? Wut?  How can an extra layer of certification cost "nothing"?  More to the point, how can something make billions of dollars, yet cost nothing? Because the cost of the certification is so low the price is not passed on to the consumer. As Coles said halal certification lowers prices for consumers because it increases the market. As for making us billions of dollars, the people spending those billions are overseas muslims and if we don't have a certification we can't export to them

I don't want to export to them.  I'd rather our food stay in Australia.

Anyway, what are we exporting that needs. Certification and is worth billions? 

... wrote on May 22^nd, 2015 at 10:52pm:

Raven wrote on May 22nd, 2015 at 7:37pm: ... wrote on May 22nd, 2015 at 2:32pm: Raven wrote on May 22nd, 2015 at 11:56am: Halal Certification is making Australia billions of dollars and costs the average Australian nothing. And half of you clowns want to get rid of it? Are you high? Wut?  How can an extra layer of certification cost "nothing"?  More to the point, how can something make billions of dollars, yet cost nothing? Because the cost of the certification is so low the price is not passed on to the consumer. As Coles said halal certification lowers prices for consumers because it increases the market. As for making us billions of dollars, the people spending those billions are overseas muslims and if we don't have a certification we can't export to them I don't want to export to them.  I'd rather our food stay in Australia. So you would prefer we restrict our market to 23 million Australians when the halal certification opens the door to potentially 1.5 billion buyers? Anyway, what are we exporting that needs. Certification and is worth billions?

As the Minister for Agriculture said


Quote:

If we didn't have the halal market in beef thousands of jobs are at risk. Unless it's halal certified we can't sell it.

rhino wrote on May 22^nd, 2015 at 8:39pm:

Raven wrote on May 22nd, 2015 at 7:41pm: Silly argument eating halal is not forcing you to conform to someone else's religious beliefs if thats the case then why the need for halal certification at all? If its not used to conform to religious beliefs then why do the Muslims need it? Put a bit more thought into your posts next time.

So you think if you buy halal you are being forced to conform to islam?

:-?  ;D

The only thing the certificate does is let muslims know the thing they are buying is safe for them to eat. It is no different than kosher.

Wake up man

|dev|null wrote on Apr 20^th, 2015 at 1:36pm:

Resolute wrote on Apr 20th, 2015 at 12:04pm: |dev|null wrote on Apr 20th, 2015 at 11:53am: Resolute wrote on Apr 20th, 2015 at 11:47am: skippy. wrote on Apr 19th, 2015 at 7:20am: I can't be bothered reading through this but has anyone that is whining about halal food bothered to whine about Kosher food too? Kosher food isn't FORCED upon people. I want to be able choose what I pay for, not have Muslims make that choice for me! So, you think you should be allowed to purchase food that was not covered by the Australian Standards on how it was prepared for your consumption, at the supermarket?  Really?   ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D :D :D Halal certification is paid for by food producers, if they give in to being blackmailed by standover merchants, the government has nothing to do with requiring producers to be Halal unless they have now decided to finance the building of mosques and financing Islamic schools........dopey. Who do you think pays for any classification system?  Ultimately the customer.   You can choose to buy and pay it or not.  No one forces you to accept Halalel food, no one stands over you can makes you purchase it.  Time to wake up to what you're saying.   ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D

Foreign governments are imposing these standards. They are imposing not just the halal standards, but are also dictating how the halal industry is run within Australia. They are creating their own monopolies and encouraging these monopolies to charge extortionist prices for certification.


Quote:

If there was demand for specifically non-halal food there would be a market. The reality is almost no one gives a sh*t about yet another stamp to reassure a particular group of consumers.

Are you imagining this discussion Gandalf?


Quote:

Because the cost of the certification is so low the price is not passed on to the consumer.

Interesting logic there. If I somehow managed to force companies to give me 1c for every item sold in Australia, would that make no difference? Do companies fail to pass on every small cost they incur? Even if it runs into the tens of thousands of dollars per month?


Quote:

The only thing the certificate does is let muslims know the thing they are buying is safe for them to eat. It is no different than kosher.

It is a legal requirement for many of our exports. By interfering in the conduct of local certification businesses, foreign governments also force Australian companies to indirectly donate huge sums of money to Muslim 'charities'.

freediver wrote on Jun 8^th, 2015 at 3:26pm:

Foreign governments are imposing these standards. They are imposing not just the halal standards, but are also dictating how the halal industry is run within Australia. They are creating their own monopolies and encouraging these monopolies to charge extortionist prices for certification.

Australia imposes its standards on anything imported into Australia.  All cars and electrical appliances have to comply with those safety standards.  All construction metal imported must comply to Australian standards.  Are we imposing our standards on other nations' manufacturers?  Damn right we are.  All Halal asks for is that there be no blood, no alcohol and that the animals be slaughtered in an acceptable fashion and the machinery is cleaned correctly.   Don't see what your problem is.  You'd better demand we stop importing anything into Australian then!  It is a two way street FD! ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D

Quote:

Australia imposes its standards on anything imported into Australia.  All cars and electrical appliances have to comply with those safety standards.

The Australian government does not force religious standards on anyone. Nor do they create monopolies in foreign countries to impose religious standards. We would rightly be outraged if they did.


Quote:

All Halal asks for is that there be no blood, no alcohol and that the animals be slaughtered in an acceptable fashion and the machinery is cleaned correctly.

Plus a large sum of money to Muslim 'charities'.

freediver wrote on Jun 8^th, 2015 at 3:57pm:

Quote: Australia imposes its standards on anything imported into Australia.  All cars and electrical appliances have to comply with those safety standards. The Australian government does not force religious standards on anyone. Nor do they create monopolies in foreign countries to impose religious standards. We would rightly be outraged if they did.

Yet we impose food safety standards on imported food FD!  Whats the difference between Halal and making food safe to eat?    ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D


Quote:

[quote]All Halal asks for is that there be no blood, no alcohol and that the animals be slaughtered in an acceptable fashion and the machinery is cleaned correctly.

Plus a large sum of money to Muslim 'charities'.[/quote]

Better to charities than in the pockets of greedy capitalists, hey FD?  ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D

|dev|null wrote on Jun 8^th, 2015 at 4:04pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 8th, 2015 at 3:57pm: Quote: Australia imposes its standards on anything imported into Australia.  All cars and electrical appliances have to comply with those safety standards. The Australian government does not force religious standards on anyone. Nor do they create monopolies in foreign countries to impose religious standards. We would rightly be outraged if they did. Yet we impose food safety standards on imported food FD!  Whats the difference between Halal and making food safe to eat?

Non Halal food is perfectly safe.

Halal is an idea, not fact or science.

Quote:

Yet we impose food safety standards on imported food FD!  Whats the difference between Halal and making food safe to eat?

One is a religious requirement, one is a safety requirement? What exactly are you having difficulty comprehending?


Quote:

Better to charities than in the pockets of greedy capitalists, hey FD?

I don't consider it a real charity if the government forces you to hand them money. I'd rather keep the money myself.

Soren wrote on Jun 8^th, 2015 at 4:27pm:

|dev|null wrote on Jun 8th, 2015 at 4:04pm: freediver wrote on Jun 8th, 2015 at 3:57pm: Quote: Australia imposes its standards on anything imported into Australia.  All cars and electrical appliances have to comply with those safety standards. The Australian government does not force religious standards on anyone. Nor do they create monopolies in foreign countries to impose religious standards. We would rightly be outraged if they did. Yet we impose food safety standards on imported food FD!  Whats the difference between Halal and making food safe to eat?    Non Halal food is perfectly safe. Halal is an idea, not fact or science.

Science is a method Soren.  Halal is a method.  Detect any difference except the belief that underlies the method?   If someone was to come along and propose a heart tick on your food, would you object?   If someone was to come along and propose a Halal tick, would you object?  Of course you would because you'd be eating healthier food!    :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D

freediver wrote on Jun 8^th, 2015 at 5:35pm:

I don't consider it a real charity if the government forces you to hand them money. I'd rather keep the money myself.

You are not handing them money, the cost of the certification is so low the price is not passed on to the consumer. Coles have even said halal certification actually lowers prices for consumers because it increases the market.

freediver wrote on Jun 8^th, 2015 at 5:35pm:

Quote: Yet we impose food safety standards on imported food FD!  Whats the difference between Halal and making food safe to eat? One is a religious requirement, one is a safety requirement? What exactly are you having difficulty comprehending?

Halal imposes standards for safety and cleanliness FD.  Keep dancing, its amusing to watch as you twist yourself around to justify your religious persecution.

Do you check every item you buy for Halal stamps?

What about for Kosher stamps?

What about for standards?

Keep dancing FD, keep dancing!


Quote:

[quote]Better to charities than in the pockets of greedy capitalists, hey FD?

I don't consider it a real charity if the government forces you to hand them money. I'd rather keep the money myself.[/quote]

Government forces you to hand nothing over to anybody FD.

Keep dancing FD!  Keep them feet moving!   ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D

Raven wrote on Jun 9^th, 2015 at 12:29pm:

the cost of the certification is so low the price is not passed on to the consumer. Coles have even said halal certification actually lowers prices for consumers because it increases the market.

All lies according to FD. It is literally impossible that a cost is not passed down to the consumer in FD world. Not that he needs any sort of evidence to prove that what Coles (as well as the Australian Meat Industry) says is a lie - see he thinks for himself and defers to common sense.

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Halal imposes standards for safety and cleanliness FD.

Irrelevant. These standards are lower than the ones already required by the government. Piggybacking religious extortion on the back of meaningless cleanliness rules does not magically transform it into a non-rort.


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Government forces you to hand nothing over to anybody FD.

Again irrelevant. Governments are demanding these 'donations' be made. Regardless of who you attribute the cost to, it makes it hard to describe them as charities.


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All lies according to FD. It is literally impossible that a cost is not passed down to the consumer in FD world.

It is possible if they make the same accounting mistake year after year, but the bottom line is, businesses pass on all their costs. The fact it is totally opaque to the end customer does not change this. It is even opaque to the business itself that passes them on. If they failed to pass on all their costs, they would be out of business. It is meaningless spin to say one particular cost is somehow exempt from this.


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Not that he needs any sort of evidence to prove that what Coles (as well as the Australian Meat Industry) says is a lie - see he thinks for himself and defers to common sense.

It is the abattoirs that pay the extortionist fees. Coles would have no idea how much of this is passed onto them, and how much onto their customers. One Queensland abattoir recently withdrew from a large sector of the export market on account of the fees being unaffordable. Anything that affects the market that drastically will influence every player. Even local Halal certification suppliers are complaining about the dodgy practices.

freediver wrote on Jun 9^th, 2015 at 6:21pm:

It is possible if they make the same accounting mistake year after year, but the bottom line is, businesses pass on all their costs. The fact it is totally opaque to the end customer does not change this. It is even opaque to the business itself that passes them on. If they failed to pass on all their costs, they would be out of business. It is meaningless spin to say one particular cost is somehow exempt from this.

Yes FD, overall sales will have to be worth more than overall costs - otherwise the business will go broke. But that is not the same thing as saying that all costs are definitely passed down. For example certification costs could change the end profit of a given product from (say) $10 to $9 if the cost is not passed on. There are many reasons why a business would accept this sort of hit to their profit - market share, remaining competitive etc. The point is, if the business is efficient and profitable enough to start with, they can afford to be burdened with additional production costs without impacting the end price.

Let me spell it out for you FD with a simple example:

- product x sells for $20 - and the profit for the producer is $10
- the producer takes on a new production cost which works out to be $2 per product
- this new cost enables the producer to enter a new market - increasing his overall sales
- the producer makes the strategic decision not to pass on the new production cost - reducing his profit margin from $10 to $8 per product
- he does this because he considers that increasing the price by $2 would make him uncompetitive
- but the payoff is an anticipated surge in profits - even above his previous $10 - that comes from increasing his market.

You can replace "product x" with "halal certification" - though of course the cost would be infinitely smaller that this example.


freediver wrote on Jun 9^th, 2015 at 6:21pm:

It is the abattoirs that pay the extortionist fees. Coles would have no idea how much of this is passed onto them, and how much onto their customers. One Queensland abattoir recently withdrew from a large sector of the export market on account of the fees being unaffordable. Anything that affects the market that drastically will influence every player. Even local Halal certification suppliers are complaining about the dodgy practices.

FD's up to his old tricks of focusing on one isolated example related to the beef export market to Indonesia - pretending that he doesn't know that we are obviously talking about the domestic market.

I am against halal food for the simple reason I am against anything that provides funding for believers in sky pixies and anything that provides said believers tools to further prostelyse.

Having said that kudos to the religion of peace in winkling money from secularists just doing their grocery shopping.

Having further said that, it is a fickle thing, and any manufacturer who hoists there petard to islamic funding would need to be aware that the worm can turn at any time, just one bomb away or revelations or missaproriation of halal money to funding religion of peace inspired murder and mayhem...

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Yes FD, overall sales will have to be worth more than overall costs - otherwise the business will go broke. But that is not the same thing as saying that all costs are definitely passed down.

Yes it is Gandalf.


Quote:

For example certification costs could change the end profit of a given product from (say) $10 to $9 if the cost is not passed on. There are many reasons why a business would accept this sort of hit to their profit - market share, remaining competitive etc.

But not because this particular cost is somehow different from every other cost of doing business. And if the same cost is borne by their competitors, the 'remaining competitive argument does not apply either.


Quote:

The point is, if the business is efficient and profitable enough to start with, they can afford to be burdened with additional production costs without impacting the end price.

Of course they can afford it. They could abandon all their profits in the name of not passing individual costs costs. But they won't, because they are a business, not a charity.


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the producer makes the strategic decision not to pass on the new production cost

That is not a strategic decision. That is muddled thinking from someone who would say anything to keep the halal spin machine turning. I get that it is possible. It was your strawman that I said it was impossible.


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he does this because he considers that increasing the price by $2 would make him uncompetitive

Here is your muddled thinking Gandalf.


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but the payoff is an anticipated surge in profits - even above his previous $10 - that comes from increasing his market.

Here it is again Gandalf. Sacrificing 20% of your profit margin is not going to lead to a surge in profits unless you had priced the product incorrectly to begin with - in which case it has nothing at all to do with the Halal rort to begin with.


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FD's up to his old tricks of focusing on one isolated example

It is a halal rort Gandalf. Of course I am going to choose the most transparent example.


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pretending that he doesn't know that we are obviously talking about the domestic market.

Earth to Gandalf: read the opening post.

Secret Wars wrote on Jun 9^th, 2015 at 7:42pm:

... I am against anything that provides funding for believers in sky pixies and anything that provides said believers tools to further prostelyse. ...

Why?

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 9^th, 2015 at 8:55pm:

Secret Wars wrote on Jun 9th, 2015 at 7:42pm: ... I am against anything that provides funding for believers in sky pixies and anything that provides said believers tools to further prostelyse. ... Why?

I don't like funding superstitions or religion, if I wanted to donate to a church I would.  And I will preempt your come back and yes I am too lazy to check and disregard halal registrations, it is almost universal now anyway.   

As I already noted, kudos to the religion of peace for appealing to the profit motive of big business and sourcing funding from atheists and God botherers alike.  All credit to them. 

Secret Wars wrote on Jun 9^th, 2015 at 9:10pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 9th, 2015 at 8:55pm: Secret Wars wrote on Jun 9th, 2015 at 7:42pm: ... I am against anything that provides funding for believers in sky pixies and anything that provides said believers tools to further prostelyse. ... Why? I don't like funding superstitions or religion ...

Why not?

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 9^th, 2015 at 9:11pm:

Secret Wars wrote on Jun 9th, 2015 at 9:10pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 9th, 2015 at 8:55pm: Secret Wars wrote on Jun 9th, 2015 at 7:42pm: ... I am against anything that provides funding for believers in sky pixies and anything that provides said believers tools to further prostelyse. ... Why? I don't like funding superstitions or religion ... Why not?

Because I think organised religion has been a blight on humanity, I do not believe in God and I would rather not fund its expansion. 

Secret Wars wrote on Jun 9^th, 2015 at 9:10pm:

... I am too lazy to check and disregard halal registrations, it is almost universal now anyway.

I just had a good look through my pantry and fridge.

I could not find a single product that was certified Halal.

Not one.

"universal"?   :-/

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 9^th, 2015 at 9:11pm:

Secret Wars wrote on Jun 9th, 2015 at 9:10pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 9th, 2015 at 8:55pm: Secret Wars wrote on Jun 9th, 2015 at 7:42pm: ... I am against anything that provides funding for believers in sky pixies and anything that provides said believers tools to further prostelyse. ... Why? I don't like funding superstitions or religion ... Why not?

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1791958.1410439219!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/gallery_1200/remembering-9-11-attacks.jpg

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 9^th, 2015 at 9:18pm:

Secret Wars wrote on Jun 9th, 2015 at 9:10pm: ... I am too lazy to check and disregard halal registrations, it is almost universal now anyway.    I just had a good look through my pantry and fridge. I could not find a single product that was certified Halal. Not one. "universal"?   :-/

Good for you.  Here, have a non halal peanut to complete your collection.  ::) You forgot the almost, which means not everything.  You also forgot an objection to funding religion by doing a shop at woolies. 

He also forgot the bit about funding religion by government decree and foreign governments establishing extortionist monopolies within Australia.

Secret Wars wrote on Jun 9^th, 2015 at 9:23pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 9th, 2015 at 9:18pm: Secret Wars wrote on Jun 9th, 2015 at 9:10pm: ... I am too lazy to check and disregard halal registrations, it is almost universal now anyway.    I just had a good look through my pantry and fridge. I could not find a single product that was certified Halal. Not one. "universal"?   :-/ Good for you.

Don't you find it strange, though?

You said that it's "universal", however, I can't find a single product in my house that is Halal certified.

Do you know the meaning of the word 'hyperbole'?

Greg likes to boil it down to the important points.

freediver wrote on Jun 9^th, 2015 at 9:35pm:

Greg likes to boil it down to the important points.

Indeed.

Apparently it's "universal", yet I have no products at all in my house that are Halal certified.

Don't you think that's a little strange?

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 9^th, 2015 at 9:32pm:

Secret Wars wrote on Jun 9th, 2015 at 9:23pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 9th, 2015 at 9:18pm: Secret Wars wrote on Jun 9th, 2015 at 9:10pm: ... I am too lazy to check and disregard halal registrations, it is almost universal now anyway.    I just had a good look through my pantry and fridge. I could not find a single product that was certified Halal. Not one. "universal"?   :-/ Good for you.    Don't you find it strange, though? You said that it's "universal", however, I can't find a single product in my house that is Halal certified. Do you know the meaning of the word 'hyperbole'?

I said almost.  And it is pronounced hyper bowl.   ;D

And I note your repeated  attempt to deflect my objection to funding religion by shopping at woolies based on the contents of your fridge.   ::)  a dopy a counterpoint as I have ever heard. 

You may be happy to fund religion. I am not.   

Secret Wars wrote on Jun 9^th, 2015 at 9:39pm:

And I note your repeated  attempt to deflect my objection to funding religion by shopping at woolies based on the contents of your fridge.

Are you suggesting that an Australian shopping at Woolworths (or Coles) is not "almost universal"?

What percentage of the products in your fridge and pantry are Halal certified?

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 9^th, 2015 at 9:49pm:

Secret Wars wrote on Jun 9th, 2015 at 9:39pm: And I note your repeated  attempt to deflect my objection to funding religion by shopping at woolies based on the contents of your fridge.    Are you suggesting that an Australian shopping at Woolworths (or Coles) is not "almost universal"? What percentage of the products in your fridge and pantry are Halal certified?

Ahhh so now you want me  to audit my fridge?  You are not particularly interested in me objecting to funding religion by doing a shop at a supermarket but you are after the big questions, ie how many in my fridge?  How about just one, that would be enough, I have a philosophical objection to funding a religion.  If I wanted to I would donate, but I dont. 

And you mentioned Coles, a list of halal foods from Coles, 411 of them across a broad range.  A nice variety, almost universal in fact.   ;D ;D

Edit, I cannot post a live link.  You can do the search for yourself if you are interested.  I suspect you are not and prefer quibbling about irrelevencies.

Secret Wars wrote on Jun 9^th, 2015 at 10:02pm:

And you mentioned Coles, a list of halal foods from Coles, 411 of them across a broad range.  A nice variety, almost universal in fact.

You're either taking the piss, or are extremely naive.

Do you have any idea how many products Coles carries?

Seriously?

Secret Wars wrote on Jun 9^th, 2015 at 10:02pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 9th, 2015 at 9:49pm: Secret Wars wrote on Jun 9th, 2015 at 9:39pm: And I note your repeated  attempt to deflect my objection to funding religion by shopping at woolies based on the contents of your fridge.    Are you suggesting that an Australian shopping at Woolworths (or Coles) is not "almost universal"? What percentage of the products in your fridge and pantry are Halal certified? Ahhh so now you want me  to audit my fridge?

Yes.

I did mine, and came up with zero Halal certified products.

How many in yours?

freediver wrote on Jun 9^th, 2015 at 8:52pm:

That is not a strategic decision. That is muddled thinking from someone who would say anything to keep the halal spin machine turning. I get that it is possible. It was your strawman that I said it was impossible.

FD apparently doesn't understand any of the gazillion possible reasons why a seller might be reluctant to increase the price of his goods - even while his production costs are increasing.

I honestly don't know what goes on in that head of yours FD - but I'm pretty sure you're not that stupid.

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 9^th, 2015 at 10:07pm:

Secret Wars wrote on Jun 9th, 2015 at 10:02pm: And you mentioned Coles, a list of halal foods from Coles, 411 of them across a broad range.  A nice variety, almost universal in fact.    You're either taking the piss, or are extremely naive. Do you have any idea how many products Coles carries? Seriously?

Did you check?  Looks like a representative basket to me.  An average shop for sure and one that generates funds for religious ends.

Still, your idiocy seems to be, you checked your fridge and have nothing halal in it therefore I can not object to funding religion by shopping at woolies or Coles. 

Is that your point?  Do you have a point?  Or do you just have an issue with almost universal?  Focused on the big question then?

Surely I have made a spelling mistake you can be as happy as a pig in poo debating that and ignoring the point of an objection to funding a religion by shopping for food. 

Quote:

FD apparently doesn't understand any of the gazillion possible reasons why a seller might be reluctant to increase the price of his goods - even while his production costs are increasing.

I understand there are a lots of reasons. Propping up your spin about Halal taxes not being passed on isn't one of them.

Secret Wars wrote on Jun 9^th, 2015 at 10:15pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 9th, 2015 at 10:07pm: Secret Wars wrote on Jun 9th, 2015 at 10:02pm: And you mentioned Coles, a list of halal foods from Coles, 411 of them across a broad range.  A nice variety, almost universal in fact.    You're either taking the piss, or are extremely naive. Do you have any idea how many products Coles carries? Seriously? Did you check?  Looks like a representative basket to me.  An average shop for sure and one that generates funds for religious ends. Still, your idiocy seems to be, you checked your fridge and have nothing halal in it therefore I can not object to funding religion by shopping at woolies or Coles.  Is that your point?  Do you have a point?  Or do you just have an issue with almost universal?  Focused on the big question then? Surely I have made a spelling mistake you can be as happy as a pig in poo debating that and ignoring the point of an objection to funding a religion by shopping for food.

I object to funding religion too.

However, you said that Halal is "almost universal".

I shop at WW and Coles, and can't find one Halal product in my house.

Coles and Woollies have the lion's share of the market.

How then, can Halal be universal?

Maybe I have strange shopping habits.

OK, how about you then - how many Halal products are in your fridge?

You can answer, or you can keep avoiding.

Bottom line is, you told a lie - Halal is not "almost universal".  Not even close.

FD also apparently doesn't understand that halal certification is seen as an avenue for bigger and better profits - one that would justify a decision not to up the end price and make yourself less competitive.

Quote:

FD also apparently doesn't understand that halal certification is seen as an avenue for bigger and better profits

The strategy employed is to charge so much money such that the fees consume almost the entire profit of the industry sector - and inevitably for some abattoirs it becomes more than the entire profit and they are forced out entirely. Your argument would make sense if everyone involved could freely choose what to buy and what to sell, but we are talking about governments banning people from participating unless they pay the fees.

Then you take is one step further up the garden path by insisting that as well as being charged these extortionist fees, they choose not to pass the cost on because it makes them more profitable.

They abattoirs do not pay because it is some magical profit machine. They do it because it is either that or go out of business.

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 9^th, 2015 at 10:19pm:

Secret Wars wrote on Jun 9th, 2015 at 10:15pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 9th, 2015 at 10:07pm: Secret Wars wrote on Jun 9th, 2015 at 10:02pm: And you mentioned Coles, a list of halal foods from Coles, 411 of them across a broad range.  A nice variety, almost universal in fact.    You're either taking the piss, or are extremely naive. Do you have any idea how many products Coles carries? Seriously? Did you check?  Looks like a representative basket to me.  An average shop for sure and one that generates funds for religious ends. Still, your idiocy seems to be, you checked your fridge and have nothing halal in it therefore I can not object to funding religion by shopping at woolies or Coles.  Is that your point?  Do you have a point?  Or do you just have an issue with almost universal?  Focused on the big question then? Surely I have made a spelling mistake you can be as happy as a pig in poo debating that and ignoring the point of an objection to funding a religion by shopping for food.  I object to funding religion too. However, you said that Halal is "almost universal". I shop at WW and Coles, and can't find one Halal product in my house. Coles and Woollies have the lion's share of the market. How then, can Halal be universal? Maybe I have strange shopping habits. OK, how about you then - how many Halal products are in your fridge? You can answer, or you can keep avoiding. Bottom line is, you told a lie - Halal is not "almost universal".  Not even close.

Bottom line, you can  as demonstrated by that Coles site, do an average everyday shop and  have your basket pretty well filled with halal products. And not an unusual or targeted shop.    That is almost universal.  Or works for as as almost universal. 

You will disagree because  you are off on your own idiot semantic agenda, to normalise and  downplaying the funding of a religion and quibbling about what is in your fridge as a distraction from an objection to that funding.

A not so remarkable shop at Coles.

Some chicken breasts, olive oil, instant noodles, some Bega cheese, muesli for breakfast and some yogurt, tuna for the kids lunches along with a muesli snack bar, tub of margarine, dilmah tea bags,  soy sauce to go with long grain rice snack, some pasta, curry paste, salt and pepper frozen squid, some chocolates and chips  for treats, getting cold now so some chicken noodle and brown onion  soup, party pies for the kids in the freezer.

So on and so forth. An average shop, almost universal.

All halal, all contributing money to religion. 

freediver wrote on Jun 9^th, 2015 at 10:27pm:

Quote: FD also apparently doesn't understand that halal certification is seen as an avenue for bigger and better profits The strategy employed is to charge so much money such that the fees consume almost the entire profit of the industry sector - and inevitably for some abattoirs it becomes more than the entire profit and they are forced out entirely. Your argument would make sense if everyone involved could freely choose what to buy and what to sell, but we are talking about governments banning people from participating unless they pay the fees. Which every government in the world does. If you don't pay you can't do business. Even good ol Australia does it Then you take is one step further up the garden path by insisting that as well as being charged these extortionist fees, they choose not to pass the cost on because it makes them more profitable. Well lets hear what the Australian Food and Grocery Council has to say: "The costs of certification for major food and beverage manufacturers are negligible in terms of the total manufacturing cost base and highly unlikely to influence wholesale pricing. Companies that pursue Halal certification generally do so in order to increase sales opportunities to a broader range of consumers." They abattoirs do not pay because it is some magical profit machine. They do it because it is either that or go out of business.

And the problem with that is? What business in their right mind would limit their consumer base when paying a pissy little amount opens their product to over a billion potential buyers?

Do you want Australian businesses to fail?

Secret Wars wrote on Jun 9^th, 2015 at 7:42pm:

I am against halal food for the simple reason I am against anything that provides funding for believers in sky pixies and anything that provides said believers tools to further prostelyse.

Take it you don't eat Weetbix either. You'd be funding two nutjob religions.

freediver wrote on Jun 9^th, 2015 at 10:27pm:

Quote: FD also apparently doesn't understand that halal certification is seen as an avenue for bigger and better profits The strategy employed is to charge so much money such that the fees consume almost the entire profit of the industry sector - and inevitably for some abattoirs it becomes more than the entire profit and they are forced out entirely. Your argument would make sense if everyone involved could freely choose what to buy and what to sell, but we are talking about governments banning people from participating unless they pay the fees. Then you take is one step further up the garden path by insisting that as well as being charged these extortionist fees, they choose not to pass the cost on because it makes them more profitable. They abattoirs do not pay because it is some magical profit machine. They do it because it is either that or go out of business.

And this might mean something if we were talking about that one isolated case concerning the Indonesian beef export market, which we are not - which i believe i mentioned about 100 times already. The cost of halal cerification on local markets (you know like coles, what we are talking about) is known to be negligible - as in a few hundred dollars annually negligible.

The industry itself says its not pased on - and there are perfectly logical reasons to believe its true - not least of all the fact that it is such a negligible cost.

But at least you seem eager to find a way to wriggle out of your idiotic claim that all costs are passed down no matter what.

freediver wrote on Jun 9^th, 2015 at 6:21pm:

Quote: Halal imposes standards for safety and cleanliness FD. Irrelevant. These standards are lower than the ones already required by the government. Piggybacking religious extortion on the back of meaningless cleanliness rules does not magically transform it into a non-rort.

How is it a rort when it adds nothing to the cost of an item to the consumer FD?


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[quote]Government forces you to hand nothing over to anybody FD.

Again irrelevant. Governments are demanding these 'donations' be made. Regardless of who you attribute the cost to, it makes it hard to describe them as charities.
[/quote]

If they are "demanding" there must be evidence.  Present it FD or I'll just put it all into your bag of tricks which you use to persecute innocent Muslims!    ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D

Secret Wars wrote on Jun 9^th, 2015 at 7:42pm:

I am against halal food for the simple reason I am against anything that provides funding for believers in sky pixies and anything that provides said believers tools to further prostelyse.

Haven't noticed too man proselyting Muslims knocking on my door Matty!   ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D

freediver wrote on Jun 9^th, 2015 at 9:18pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 9th, 2015 at 9:11pm: Secret Wars wrote on Jun 9th, 2015 at 9:10pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 9th, 2015 at 8:55pm: Secret Wars wrote on Jun 9th, 2015 at 7:42pm: ... I am against anything that provides funding for believers in sky pixies and anything that provides said believers tools to further prostelyse. ... Why? I don't like funding superstitions or religion ... Why not? http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1791958.1410439219!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/gallery_1200/remembering-9-11-attacks.jpg

So, the hijackers flew their planes into buildings because they were crazed on Halal certified food FD?   Interesting theory that!   ;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D :D :D

freediver wrote on Jun 9^th, 2015 at 9:25pm:

He also forgot the bit about funding religion by government decree and foreign governments establishing extortionist monopolies within Australia.

You only have a monopoly, extortionist or otherwise when there is no alternative.

There is alternatives to Halal certified foods FD...   ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D

freediver wrote on Jun 9^th, 2015 at 10:17pm:

Quote: FD apparently doesn't understand any of the gazillion possible reasons why a seller might be reluctant to increase the price of his goods - even while his production costs are increasing. I understand there are a lots of reasons. Propping up your spin about Halal taxes not being passed on isn't one of them.

sooooo FD understands "there are lots of reasons" why a seller might not pass on his costs - yet apparently still insists that costs are always passed on no matter what  :D

Muslims won't eat food unless it's halal right. That same opportunity wasn't given to the Christians because now we have to eat their food. I'm sure many staunch Christians wouldn't like eating food blessed by Allah. Once this crap starts entering society  problems and divisions start occurring. How about muslims learn to bless their food when they get home from the shops and only buy halal meat. Why does food have to be blessed anyway. It's stupid. If you want to bless somebody bless they farmer who's hard work made it possible for you to have it.

double plus good wrote on Jun 10^th, 2015 at 10:54am:

Muslims won't eat food unless it's halal right. That same opportunity wasn't given to the Christians because now we have to eat their food. I'm sure many staunch Christians wouldn't like eating food blessed by Allah. Once this crap starts entering society  problems and divisions start occurring. How about muslims learn to bless their food when they get home from the shops and only buy halal meat. Why does food have to be blessed anyway. It's stupid. If you want to bless somebody bless they farmer who's hard work made it possible for you to have it.

So, you'd ban the sale of Weatbix, I take it?   ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D

|dev|null wrote on Jun 10^th, 2015 at 10:57am:

double plus good wrote on Jun 10th, 2015 at 10:54am: Muslims won't eat food unless it's halal right. That same opportunity wasn't given to the Christians because now we have to eat their food. I'm sure many staunch Christians wouldn't like eating food blessed by Allah. Once this crap starts entering society  problems and divisions start occurring. How about muslims learn to bless their food when they get home from the shops and only buy halal meat. Why does food have to be blessed anyway. It's stupid. If you want to bless somebody bless they farmer who's hard work made it possible for you to have it. So, you'd ban the sale of Weatbix, I take it?   ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D

I wouldn't ban any food. I'd just take the religion out of it. There's enough insanity in the world already.

double plus good wrote on Jun 10^th, 2015 at 10:54am:

Muslims won't eat food unless it's halal right. That same opportunity wasn't given to the Christians because now we have to eat their food.

No, we don't.

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 10^th, 2015 at 11:09am:

double plus good wrote on Jun 10th, 2015 at 10:54am: Muslims won't eat food unless it's halal right. That same opportunity wasn't given to the Christians because now we have to eat their food. No, we don't.

Cadbury's chocolate is halal. Now I have to eat chocolate blessed by allah. How about food being  multi blessed to cater for all religions? Fairs fair?

double plus good wrote on Jun 10^th, 2015 at 11:12am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 10th, 2015 at 11:09am: double plus good wrote on Jun 10th, 2015 at 10:54am: Muslims won't eat food unless it's halal right. That same opportunity wasn't given to the Christians because now we have to eat their food. No, we don't. Now I have to eat chocolate

No, you don't.

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 10^th, 2015 at 11:24am:

double plus good wrote on Jun 10th, 2015 at 11:12am: greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 10th, 2015 at 11:09am: double plus good wrote on Jun 10th, 2015 at 10:54am: Muslims won't eat food unless it's halal right. That same opportunity wasn't given to the Christians because now we have to eat their food. No, we don't. Now I have to eat chocolate No, you don't.

Yes I do.

double plus good wrote on Jun 10^th, 2015 at 11:25am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 10th, 2015 at 11:24am: double plus good wrote on Jun 10th, 2015 at 11:12am: greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 10th, 2015 at 11:09am: double plus good wrote on Jun 10th, 2015 at 10:54am: Muslims won't eat food unless it's halal right. That same opportunity wasn't given to the Christians because now we have to eat their food. No, we don't. Now I have to eat chocolate No, you don't. Yes I do.

Who eats Cadburys except the poor fools who don't realise there is Haighs?   ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 10^th, 2015 at 11:24am:

No, you don't.

Well he probably does have a point - I think there are certain products that are only available with halal certification - cadburys chocolate being one.

But its incumbent upon those who are outraged over it to get off their backsides and do something about it: we have matty here who presumably thinks he will be magically turned into a muslim if he eats it, we have FD who is standing up against workplace discrimination and extortion - if they think they should have a right to purchase non-halal then I think its up to them to do something about it. Then if there are a critical mass who demand this change, then the market will respond.

Most likely though they simply don't give a toss, will continue to purchase halal - but reserve the right to continually whinge about it.

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 10^th, 2015 at 12:23pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 10th, 2015 at 11:24am: No, you don't. Well he probably does have a point - I think there are certain products that are only available with halal certification - cadburys chocolate being one. But its incumbent upon those who are outraged over it to get off their backsides and do something about it: we have matty here who presumably thinks he will be magically turned into a muslim if he eats it, we have FD who is standing up against workplace discrimination and extortion - if they think they should have a right to purchase non-halal then I think its up to them to do something about it. Then if there are a critical mass who demand this change, then the market will respond. Most likely though they simply don't give a toss, will continue to purchase halal - but reserve the right to continually whinge about it.

Would you eat it if it wasn't halal. Would most muslim people. If you and they wouldn't well don't expect me to. You can't expect people of other religions to eat muslim blessed food. Muslims wouldn't like it.

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 10^th, 2015 at 12:23pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 10th, 2015 at 11:24am: No, you don't. Well he probably does have a point - I think there are certain products that are only available with halal certification - cadburys chocolate being one. But its incumbent upon those who are outraged over it to get off their backsides and do something about it: we have matty here who presumably thinks he will be magically turned into a muslim if he eats it, we have FD who is standing up against workplace discrimination and extortion - if they think they should have a right to purchase non-halal then I think its up to them to do something about it. Then if there are a critical mass who demand this change, then the market will respond. Most likely though they simply don't give a toss, will continue to purchase halal - but reserve the right to continually whinge about it.

I hate religion. I  particularly despise Islam. But I'll eat it. You know why- because it's rubbish. I'm just trying to work out how you can get away with islamizing foodstuffs which don't take other religions into account.

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 10^th, 2015 at 12:23pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 10th, 2015 at 11:24am: No, you don't. Well he probably does have a point - I think there are certain products that are only available with halal certification - cadburys chocolate being one.

Solution: don't buy Cadbury's chocolate.

Next problem?

It is a scam.

Muslims are allowed to eat non halal food if there is nothing else,hala is a want not a need.

Perhaps we should take legal action against halal slaughter for not employing non muslims,any other people discriminating against people for religious reasons are prosecuted here yet muslims get another free pass.

Quote:

Which every government in the world does. If you don't pay you can't do business. Even good ol Australia does it

Our government does nothing of the sort. Nor does any other western government. I can only assume you have completely missed the point Raven. This is a medieval Islamic throwback. Are you playing HB's idiotic game of pretending you cannot see the difference?


Quote:

Well lets hear what the Australian Food and Grocery Council has to say:

Is this in reference to abattoirs and other companies forced into extortionist situations?


Quote:

Companies that pursue Halal certification generally do so in order to increase sales opportunities to a broader range of consumers.

That's a nice way of saying they are driven out of the industry sector if they don't pay the fees.


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And the problem with that is? What business in their right mind would limit their consumer base when paying a pissy little amount opens their product to over a billion potential buyers?

Some companies are forced to, because the cost go up into the tens of thousands of dollars per month. And there are several problems with it. Are you happy with governments propping up religions and imposing religious standards, and forcing Australians to do the same? Are you happy with foreign governments creating extortionist monopolies within Australia?


Quote:

And the problem with that is? What business in their right mind would limit their consumer base when paying a pissy little amount opens their product to over a billion potential buyers?

It is not limited to Indonesia.


Quote:

The industry itself says its not pased on - and there are perfectly logical reasons to believe its true

No there are not. You could not come up with a single one.


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not least of all the fact that it is such a negligible cost.

Tens of thousands of dollars per month is not a negligible cost. Even if an individual cost is small, that is not a logical reason for saying it is not passed on. All costs can be broken down into small components, and they all add up to very large costs. A business that is incapable of adding them up and charging enough to remain profitable will not stay in business for long. There is no logical reason for this not to apply to this particular cost.


Quote:

If they are "demanding" there must be evidence.  Present it FD or I'll just put it all into your bag of tricks which you use to persecute innocent Muslims!

Have you been living under a rock? You participated in previous discussions about this.


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sooooo FD understands "there are lots of reasons" why a seller might not pass on his costs

Read it again Gandalf. That is not what I said. Even your own examples highlight this. You had to invoke an entirely different justification for lowering the prices that had nothing to do with the halal certification cost that was supposedly not being passed on - a reason that would still have applied in the absence of the halal extortion and would have still resulted in lower prices in the absence of this scam.


Quote:

we have FD who is standing up against workplace discrimination and extortion

Gandalf I notice you never commented on the suggestion in the opening post. You have spent the entire thread trying to change the subject, even insisting it is not the topic at all. Do you have an opinion on it?

double plus good wrote on Jun 10^th, 2015 at 12:31pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 10th, 2015 at 12:23pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 10th, 2015 at 11:24am: No, you don't. Well he probably does have a point - I think there are certain products that are only available with halal certification - cadburys chocolate being one. But its incumbent upon those who are outraged over it to get off their backsides and do something about it: we have matty here who presumably thinks he will be magically turned into a muslim if he eats it, we have FD who is standing up against workplace discrimination and extortion - if they think they should have a right to purchase non-halal then I think its up to them to do something about it. Then if there are a critical mass who demand this change, then the market will respond. Most likely though they simply don't give a toss, will continue to purchase halal - but reserve the right to continually whinge about it. I hate religion. I  particularly despise Islam. But I'll eat it. You know why- because it's rubbish. I'm just trying to work out how you can get away with islamizing foodstuffs which don't take other religions into account.

Do the makers of Weatbix take non-Christians into account when they make their product?  I doubt it.    ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D

|dev|null wrote on Jun 10^th, 2015 at 1:11pm:

double plus good wrote on Jun 10th, 2015 at 12:31pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 10th, 2015 at 12:23pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 10th, 2015 at 11:24am: No, you don't. Well he probably does have a point - I think there are certain products that are only available with halal certification - cadburys chocolate being one. But its incumbent upon those who are outraged over it to get off their backsides and do something about it: we have matty here who presumably thinks he will be magically turned into a muslim if he eats it, we have FD who is standing up against workplace discrimination and extortion - if they think they should have a right to purchase non-halal then I think its up to them to do something about it. Then if there are a critical mass who demand this change, then the market will respond. Most likely though they simply don't give a toss, will continue to purchase halal - but reserve the right to continually whinge about it. I hate religion. I  particularly despise Islam. But I'll eat it. You know why- because it's rubbish. I'm just trying to work out how you can get away with islamizing foodstuffs which don't take other religions into account. Do the makers of Weatbix take non-Christians into account when they make their product?  I doubt it.    ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D

I hope not. I hope they don't take any religion into account. I just don't see any connection between food and god.

double plus good wrote on Jun 10^th, 2015 at 1:15pm:

|dev|null wrote on Jun 10th, 2015 at 1:11pm: double plus good wrote on Jun 10th, 2015 at 12:31pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 10th, 2015 at 12:23pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 10th, 2015 at 11:24am: No, you don't. Well he probably does have a point - I think there are certain products that are only available with halal certification - cadburys chocolate being one. But its incumbent upon those who are outraged over it to get off their backsides and do something about it: we have matty here who presumably thinks he will be magically turned into a muslim if he eats it, we have FD who is standing up against workplace discrimination and extortion - if they think they should have a right to purchase non-halal then I think its up to them to do something about it. Then if there are a critical mass who demand this change, then the market will respond. Most likely though they simply don't give a toss, will continue to purchase halal - but reserve the right to continually whinge about it. I hate religion. I  particularly despise Islam. But I'll eat it. You know why- because it's rubbish. I'm just trying to work out how you can get away with islamizing foodstuffs which don't take other religions into account. Do the makers of Weatbix take non-Christians into account when they make their product?  I doubt it.    ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D I hope not. I hope they don't take any religion into account. I just don't see any connection between food and god.

So, why do you complain about it like you do?  If Christians involve religion in their business you ignore it but if Muslims do, you're all over it like a rash!   Talk about persecution on the basis of religion!  ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D

|dev|null wrote on Jun 10^th, 2015 at 1:17pm:

double plus good wrote on Jun 10th, 2015 at 1:15pm: |dev|null wrote on Jun 10th, 2015 at 1:11pm: double plus good wrote on Jun 10th, 2015 at 12:31pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 10th, 2015 at 12:23pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 10th, 2015 at 11:24am: No, you don't. Well he probably does have a point - I think there are certain products that are only available with halal certification - cadburys chocolate being one. But its incumbent upon those who are outraged over it to get off their backsides and do something about it: we have matty here who presumably thinks he will be magically turned into a muslim if he eats it, we have FD who is standing up against workplace discrimination and extortion - if they think they should have a right to purchase non-halal then I think its up to them to do something about it. Then if there are a critical mass who demand this change, then the market will respond. Most likely though they simply don't give a toss, will continue to purchase halal - but reserve the right to continually whinge about it. I hate religion. I  particularly despise Islam. But I'll eat it. You know why- because it's rubbish. I'm just trying to work out how you can get away with islamizing foodstuffs which don't take other religions into account. Do the makers of Weatbix take non-Christians into account when they make their product?  I doubt it.    ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D I hope not. I hope they don't take any religion into account. I just don't see any connection between food and god. So, why do you complain about it like you do?  If Christians involve religion in their business you ignore it but if Muslims do, you're all over it like a rash!   Talk about persecution on the basis of religion!  ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D

I don't like Islam. It's a backwards cult ripping the world apart. Is that good enough for you?

double plus good wrote on Jun 10^th, 2015 at 1:20pm:

|dev|null wrote on Jun 10th, 2015 at 1:17pm: double plus good wrote on Jun 10th, 2015 at 1:15pm: |dev|null wrote on Jun 10th, 2015 at 1:11pm: double plus good wrote on Jun 10th, 2015 at 12:31pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 10th, 2015 at 12:23pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 10th, 2015 at 11:24am: No, you don't. Well he probably does have a point - I think there are certain products that are only available with halal certification - cadburys chocolate being one. But its incumbent upon those who are outraged over it to get off their backsides and do something about it: we have matty here who presumably thinks he will be magically turned into a muslim if he eats it, we have FD who is standing up against workplace discrimination and extortion - if they think they should have a right to purchase non-halal then I think its up to them to do something about it. Then if there are a critical mass who demand this change, then the market will respond. Most likely though they simply don't give a toss, will continue to purchase halal - but reserve the right to continually whinge about it. I hate religion. I  particularly despise Islam. But I'll eat it. You know why- because it's rubbish. I'm just trying to work out how you can get away with islamizing foodstuffs which don't take other religions into account. Do the makers of Weatbix take non-Christians into account when they make their product?  I doubt it.    ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D I hope not. I hope they don't take any religion into account. I just don't see any connection between food and god. So, why do you complain about it like you do?  If Christians involve religion in their business you ignore it but if Muslims do, you're all over it like a rash!   Talk about persecution on the basis of religion!  ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D I don't like Islam. It's a backwards cult ripping the world apart. Is that good enough for you?

Big, broad statement there.  And the evidence of your claim is?

Keep trying Matty, just bang the rocks together, you'll work it out eventually!  ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D

|dev|null wrote on Jun 10^th, 2015 at 1:25pm:

double plus good wrote on Jun 10th, 2015 at 1:20pm: |dev|null wrote on Jun 10th, 2015 at 1:17pm: double plus good wrote on Jun 10th, 2015 at 1:15pm: |dev|null wrote on Jun 10th, 2015 at 1:11pm: double plus good wrote on Jun 10th, 2015 at 12:31pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 10th, 2015 at 12:23pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 10th, 2015 at 11:24am: No, you don't. Well he probably does have a point - I think there are certain products that are only available with halal certification - cadburys chocolate being one. But its incumbent upon those who are outraged over it to get off their backsides and do something about it: we have matty here who presumably thinks he will be magically turned into a muslim if he eats it, we have FD who is standing up against workplace discrimination and extortion - if they think they should have a right to purchase non-halal then I think its up to them to do something about it. Then if there are a critical mass who demand this change, then the market will respond. Most likely though they simply don't give a toss, will continue to purchase halal - but reserve the right to continually whinge about it. I hate religion. I  particularly despise Islam. But I'll eat it. You know why- because it's rubbish. I'm just trying to work out how you can get away with islamizing foodstuffs which don't take other religions into account. Do the makers of Weatbix take non-Christians into account when they make their product?  I doubt it.    ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D I hope not. I hope they don't take any religion into account. I just don't see any connection between food and god. So, why do you complain about it like you do?  If Christians involve religion in their business you ignore it but if Muslims do, you're all over it like a rash!   Talk about persecution on the basis of religion!  ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D I don't like Islam. It's a backwards cult ripping the world apart. Is that good enough for you? Big, broad statement there.  And the evidence of your claim is? Keep trying Matty, just bang the rocks together, you'll work it out eventually!  ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D

Big broad statement. Name one muslim country other than Malaysia and Dubai  that isn't a craphole?

double plus good wrote on Jun 10^th, 2015 at 1:27pm:

|dev|null wrote on Jun 10th, 2015 at 1:25pm: double plus good wrote on Jun 10th, 2015 at 1:20pm: |dev|null wrote on Jun 10th, 2015 at 1:17pm: double plus good wrote on Jun 10th, 2015 at 1:15pm: |dev|null wrote on Jun 10th, 2015 at 1:11pm: double plus good wrote on Jun 10th, 2015 at 12:31pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 10th, 2015 at 12:23pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 10th, 2015 at 11:24am: No, you don't. Well he probably does have a point - I think there are certain products that are only available with halal certification - cadburys chocolate being one. But its incumbent upon those who are outraged over it to get off their backsides and do something about it: we have matty here who presumably thinks he will be magically turned into a muslim if he eats it, we have FD who is standing up against workplace discrimination and extortion - if they think they should have a right to purchase non-halal then I think its up to them to do something about it. Then if there are a critical mass who demand this change, then the market will respond. Most likely though they simply don't give a toss, will continue to purchase halal - but reserve the right to continually whinge about it. I hate religion. I  particularly despise Islam. But I'll eat it. You know why- because it's rubbish. I'm just trying to work out how you can get away with islamizing foodstuffs which don't take other religions into account. Do the makers of Weatbix take non-Christians into account when they make their product?  I doubt it.    ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D I hope not. I hope they don't take any religion into account. I just don't see any connection between food and god. So, why do you complain about it like you do?  If Christians involve religion in their business you ignore it but if Muslims do, you're all over it like a rash!   Talk about persecution on the basis of religion!  ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D I don't like Islam. It's a backwards cult ripping the world apart. Is that good enough for you? Big, broad statement there.  And the evidence of your claim is? Keep trying Matty, just bang the rocks together, you'll work it out eventually!  ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D Big broad statement. Name one muslim country other than Malaysia and Dubai  that isn't a craphole?

Define a "craphole", first.  ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D