Quote:

A PERSON has been put to death in Saudi Arabia almost every day this month with the country expected to have added to that figure with the execution of its 23rd inmate yesterday. Hajras al-Qurey will become the latest person to be executed in the last three weeks with human rights groups horrified by what they are calling a surge in executions. The execution of al-Qurey will top off a deadly week around the world with the beheading of an Egyptian man by Libya armed groups and the execution of 18 informers by Hamas, according to Amnesty International. Human rights groups have been unable to confirm whether his execution has yet taken place, Last Monday four men — two sets of brothers Hadi bin Saleh Abdullah al-Mutlaq and Awad bin Saleh Abdullah al-Mutlaq along with Mufrih bin Jaber Zayd al-Yami and Ali bin Jaber Zayd al-Yami — were beheaded. Amnesty claims they were sentenced to death largely on false confessions they gave. Journalist James Foley was also executed in footage which shocked the world. According to Amnesty, there has been a surge in executions in Saudi Arabia since the end of Ramadan on July 28, with 22 executions taking place between August 4 and August 22, compared to 17 executions between January and July this year. Amnesty International said called on the Kingdom to halt all executions after four members of the same family were beheaded for “receiving drugs”. Said Boumedouha, Deputy Director of Amnesty International’s Middle East and North Africa Program, said the execution of people accused of petty crimes and on the basis of confessions extracted through torture had become shamefully common in Saudi Arabia. “The use of the death penalty in Saudi Arabia is so far removed from any kind of legal parameters that it is almost hard to believe” Mr Boumedouha said. Hajras al-Qurey, 53, was sentenced to death on 16 January last year in the south-eastern city of Najran on drug-trafficking charges. He was arrested, together with his son Muhammad, on 7 January 2012 at the al-Khadra border crossing with Yemen, when customs officers suspected they were carrying drugs in their car. His son was sentenced to 20 years in prison and 1000 lashes. But according to Amnesty, both men claim they were tortured during their interrogation and were denied access to their lawyers. Their families were also told to stop appealing to human rights organisations to save them from execution. “That people are tortured into confessing to crimes, convicted in shameful trials without adequate legal support and then executed is a sickening indictment of the Kingdom’s state-sanctioned brutality,” Mr Boumedouha said. “It is clear that the authorities are more interested in threatening victims’ families to shut them up rather than putting an end to this grotesque phenomenon.” A deadly August is just the tip of the iceberg for Saudi Arabia which executed more than 2000 people between 1985 and 2013, figures provided by the human rights group reveal. According to them, trials in capital cases are often held in secret and defendants are given no or insufficient access to lawyers. And people in Saudi can be executed for a range of crimes including adultery, armed robbery, apostasy, drug-related offences, rape, witchcraft and sorcery. Most executions are done by beheading and many take place in public. In some cases decapitated bodies are left lying on the ground in public squares as a “deterrent”.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/world/beheadings-at-record-levels-saudi-arabia-executes-dozens-in-deadly-august/story-fnihsmjt-1227037172765

any comments from the resident islamics ?

Sprintcyclist wrote on Aug 26^th, 2014 at 1:18pm:

any comments from the resident islamics ?

Yes - Saudi Arabia is the scum of the earth and needs to be obliterated from the planet - along with their little slave trading lackeys Qatar, UAE and Bahrain.

They are a complete disgrace to islam.

But of course you would already know sprint, since I have stated this repeatedly.

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 26^th, 2014 at 1:27pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Aug 26th, 2014 at 1:18pm: any comments from the resident islamics ? Yes - Saudi Arabia is the scum of the earth and needs to be obliterated from the planet - along with their little slave trading lackeys Qatar, UAE and Bahrain. They are a complete disgrace to islam.

The Saudi constitution says God's book (Quran) and the sunnah of his prophet are the constitution with Arabic as the official language.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_Law_of_Saudi_Arabia

Apart from the Royals (Islam prescribes a Caliphate form of dictatorship) what are the Saudis doing that is considered unislamic?

Baronvonrort wrote on Aug 26^th, 2014 at 2:12pm:

Apart from the Royals (Islam prescribes a Caliphate form of dictatorship) what are the Saudis doing that is considered unislamic?

Everything, you name it.

So, the most islamic country in the world .......... has it all wrong ??

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 26^th, 2014 at 3:32pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Aug 26th, 2014 at 2:12pm: Apart from the Royals (Islam prescribes a Caliphate form of dictatorship) what are the Saudis doing that is considered unislamic? Everything, you name it.

How about you start pointing out what the Saudis are doing that is unislamic, i have already pointed out the Royals are unislamic.
:)

Sprintcyclist wrote on Aug 26^th, 2014 at 3:39pm:

So, the most islamic country in the world .......... has it all wrong ??

Absolutely they have it all wrong.

Also "the most islamic country in the world" is your phrase, not mine.


Baronvonrort wrote on Aug 26^th, 2014 at 3:45pm:

How about you start pointing out what the Saudis are doing that is unislamic

It would be easier to point out what they are doing that *IS* islamic. Which is pretty much nothing. They are fanatical adherents of the Hanbali school, which insists that every authentic action of The Prophet must be blindly followed without question. It is a blatant violation of what the Quran teaches (free thinking and non-compulsion) - as well as of common sense.

Now run along Baron, and start collecting your "authoritative" quotes from islamqa to demonstrate how they are the real muslims and I am not.

100% of the population in Saudi is muslim

I think they know islam better than you do.
Don't discuss it with me, discuss it with them.
Let me know the outcome.

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 26^th, 2014 at 4:07pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Aug 26th, 2014 at 3:45pm: How about you start pointing out what the Saudis are doing that is unislamic It would be easier to point out what they are doing that *IS* islamic. Which is pretty much nothing. They are fanatical adherents of the Hanbali school, which insists that every authentic action of The Prophet must be blindly followed without question. It is a blatant violation of what the Quran teaches.

The link i provided on basic law in Saudi Arabia shows all their laws come from Islam.

Why do muslims face Mecca in Saudi Arabia when they pray, is one of the 5 pillars of Islam Hajj,where do you go for that is it Saudi Arabia?

The Quran tells you to follow Mohammads example-(Read all english translations)
quran.com/33/21

The Islamic state is probably doing a better job at following Mo's example, of course the Saudi royals don't like the Islamic state because they are a threat to their rule.

you people do realise that Islam also uses the Old Testament dont you?

ian wrote on Aug 26^th, 2014 at 8:35pm:

you people do realise that Islam also uses the Old Testament dont you?

They use the Quran,all the previous books became obsolete when the Quran was revealed.

The Saudis burn the buy-bull

Baronvonrort wrote on Aug 26^th, 2014 at 8:38pm:

ian wrote on Aug 26th, 2014 at 8:35pm: you people do realise that Islam also uses the Old Testament dont you? They use the Quran,all the previous books became obsolete when the Quran was revealed. The Saudis burn the buy-bull

incorrect. The Quran did not make the Old Testament obsolete just as the New Testament did not make the Old testament obsolete. Not real big on this religion stuff are you?

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 26^th, 2014 at 4:07pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Aug 26th, 2014 at 3:39pm: So, the most islamic country in the world .......... has it all wrong ?? Absolutely they have it all wrong. Also "the most islamic country in the world" is your phrase, not mine. Baronvonrort wrote on Aug 26th, 2014 at 3:45pm: How about you start pointing out what the Saudis are doing that is unislamic It would be easier to point out what they are doing that *IS* islamic. Which is pretty much nothing. They are fanatical adherents of the Hanbali school, which insists that every authentic action of The Prophet must be blindly followed without question. It is a blatant violation of what the Quran teaches (free thinking and non-compulsion) - as well as of common sense. Now run along Baron, and start collecting your "authoritative" quotes from islamqa to demonstrate how they are the real muslims and I am not.

Shariah law violates the principle of free thinking and non-compulsion. I hope you're not one of those Muslims that tries to force other Muslims to conform to your version of Islam.

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 26^th, 2014 at 3:32pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Aug 26th, 2014 at 2:12pm: Apart from the Royals (Islam prescribes a Caliphate form of dictatorship) what are the Saudis doing that is considered unislamic? Everything, you name it.

The beards are unislamic? ?!!!???

Soren wrote on Aug 26^th, 2014 at 8:53pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 26th, 2014 at 3:32pm: Baronvonrort wrote on Aug 26th, 2014 at 2:12pm: Apart from the Royals (Islam prescribes a Caliphate form of dictatorship) what are the Saudis doing that is considered unislamic? Everything, you name it. The beards are unislamic? ?!!!???

that obsession they have where about 1 million muslims go there and walk around a black rock annually, it's unislamic too ?

ian wrote on Aug 26^th, 2014 at 8:42pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Aug 26th, 2014 at 8:38pm: ian wrote on Aug 26th, 2014 at 8:35pm: you people do realise that Islam also uses the Old Testament dont you? They use the Quran,all the previous books became obsolete when the Quran was revealed. The Saudis burn the buy-bull incorrect. The Quran did not make the Old Testament obsolete just as the New Testament did not make the Old testament obsolete. Not real big on this religion stuff are you?

You are totally clueless about many things.

The Quran abrogated the previous books, in Malaysia christians cannot use the word "allah" because the Malaysians are worried a muslim might pick up the wrong book get confused and end up in hell.
The Malaysian ruling on christians not being able to use the word allah means their allah is of Arabian origin.


Quote:

It is not permissable for a muslim to put his hand on the Tawraat (torah) when swearing an oath because the copies in circulation are distorted,and not the original books and because the message with which allah sent his prophet Muhammad (pedo bastard unworthy human) abrogates the messages that came before islamqa.info/en/4023

Muslims claim Muhammad was the final prophet from god, the Quran abrogates previous scriptures.

Muhammad was a thief,he tried to impose himself on the Jewish religion as their prophet, the jews rejected Muhammad so he stole all their prophets to give his cult credibility, this is covered in the Sira of Ibn Hisham.

read and comprehend .............


Quote:

The Qur'an – the revelation Muslims believe was given to the prophet Muhammad as a remedy – identifies three sets of books from the Bible as genuine divine revelation given to trusted messengers: the Tawrat (Torah) given to Musa (Moses), the Zabur (Psalms) given to Daud (David) and the Injil (Gospel) given to Isa (Jesus). Together, the Qur'an, these books and the now-unknown Suhuf Ibrahim ("Scrolls of Abraham") constitute Islam's scripture

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_view_of_the_Christian_Bible

................

Sprintcyclist wrote on Aug 26^th, 2014 at 8:26pm:

100% of the population in Saudi is muslim I think they know islam better than you do. Don't discuss it with me, discuss it with them. Let me know the outcome.

Yes, why am I not surprised by this response from Sprint?

- every second post sprint demands incessantly that the "resident muslim" distance himself from the crazies
- when this is done, he is ridiculed as ignorant/blind/stupid about what islam is *REALLY* about.

I wouldnt mind a good religious argument but these proles are totally clueless and choose not to educate themselves.

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 26^th, 2014 at 11:20pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Aug 26th, 2014 at 8:26pm: 100% of the population in Saudi is muslim I think they know islam better than you do. Don't discuss it with me, discuss it with them. Let me know the outcome. Yes, why am I not surprised by this response from Sprint? - every second post sprint demands incessantly that the "resident muslim" distance himself from the crazies - when this is done, he is ridiculed as ignorant/blind/stupid about what islam is *REALLY* about.

that's fine Gandalf. I am pleased you are not an extremist.
there are 30 million Saudis who appear to think extremism is what islam is.

Now I don't care who is right and who is wrong.
What I see is 30 million Saudis who want the rest of the world to be just like them.
And I don't want that.

It'ld be the same if it was a country of 'Star Warsians' or '8th tree from the left' believers. If there's millions who are extremists in those belief systems who behead and the like and desire the rest of the world like that, I am totally against those beliefs.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Aug 26^th, 2014 at 11:52pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 26th, 2014 at 11:20pm: Sprintcyclist wrote on Aug 26th, 2014 at 8:26pm: 100% of the population in Saudi is muslim I think they know islam better than you do. Don't discuss it with me, discuss it with them. Let me know the outcome. Yes, why am I not surprised by this response from Sprint? - every second post sprint demands incessantly that the "resident muslim" distance himself from the crazies - when this is done, he is ridiculed as ignorant/blind/stupid about what islam is *REALLY* about. that's fine Gandalf. I am pleased you are not an extremist. there are 30 million Saudis who appear to think extremism is what islam is. Now I don't care who is right and who is wrong. What I see is 30 million Saudis who want the rest of the world to be just like them. And I don't want that. It'ld be the same if it was a country of 'Star Warsians' or '8th tree from the left' believers. If there's millions who are extremists in those belief systems who behead and the like and desire the rest of the world like that, I am totally against those beliefs.

This is the smartest post I’ve ever seen you write.

Keep up the good work.

How can we stop Muslims from smashing up the whole world?

The beheading craze is now going world wide:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2014/aug/26/brazil-prison-riot-beheadings-video



Quote:

A prison riot at the Cascavel state penitentiary in Brazil's Paraná state has turned deadly, with four people reported dead. According to the authorities, about 700 inmates have taken part in the uprising, which began on Sunday morning. Two prisoners are believed to have been beheaded and two thrown off the roof. The rebels are demanding better living conditions.

I hope it doesn't catch on in Australia too?

ian wrote on Aug 26^th, 2014 at 8:35pm:

you people do realise that Islam also uses the Old Testament dont you?

No it doesn't.

For once Baron is correct on this one.


ian wrote on Aug 26^th, 2014 at 11:18pm:

read and comprehend ............. Quote: The Qur'an – the revelation Muslims believe was given to the prophet Muhammad as a remedy – identifies three sets of books from the Bible as genuine divine revelation given to trusted messengers: the Tawrat (Torah) given to Musa (Moses), the Zabur (Psalms) given to Daud (David) and the Injil (Gospel) given to Isa (Jesus). Together, the Qur'an, these books and the now-unknown Suhuf Ibrahim ("Scrolls of Abraham") constitute Islam's scripture http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_view_of_the_Christian_Bible

Good. Now maybe you should "read and comprehend" what islam actually says about those texts.

Yes, they are considered divine revelation for the people it was revealed too. But as Baron said, these texts have been abrogated by the Quran, and thus are no longer "used" by islam. The Quran covers many of the same stories in the OT, and in virtually every case has a different version. Hence they are abrogated by the Quran.

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 27^th, 2014 at 12:16am:

ian wrote on Aug 26th, 2014 at 8:35pm: you people do realise that Islam also uses the Old Testament dont you? No it doesn't. For once Baron is correct on this one. ian wrote on Aug 26th, 2014 at 11:18pm: read and comprehend ............. Quote: The Qur'an – the revelation Muslims believe was given to the prophet Muhammad as a remedy – identifies three sets of books from the Bible as genuine divine revelation given to trusted messengers: the Tawrat (Torah) given to Musa (Moses), the Zabur (Psalms) given to Daud (David) and the Injil (Gospel) given to Isa (Jesus). Together, the Qur'an, these books and the now-unknown Suhuf Ibrahim ("Scrolls of Abraham") constitute Islam's scripture http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_view_of_the_Christian_Bible Good. Now maybe you should "read and comprehend" what islam actually says about those texts. Yes, they are considered divine revelation for the people it was revealed too. But as Baron said, these texts have been abrogated by the Quran, and thus are no longer "used" by islam. The Quran covers many of the same stories in the OT, and in virtually every case has a different version. Hence they are abrogated by the Quran.

oh I see. you are a pretend Muslim what a pity. But no surprise.

freediver wrote on Aug 26^th, 2014 at 8:43pm:

Shariah law violates the principle of free thinking and non-compulsion.

Yes I've heard that fairy tale also.

But for anyone who actually reads and comprehends the Quran, it straight away becomes obvious that it is complete BS.

The absurdity of the compulsion claim becomes instantly apparent by the simple phrase in the Quran "let there be no compulsion in religion" - amongst many many other similar sentiments.

Islam has been hijacked by the hanbali fanatics who flagrantly violate the Quranic principles of free and rational thought - in favour of the rigid ahadith. This has not always been the case - during the golden age the islamic world was dominated by free and independent thinking. There is no reason why it couldn't happen again - through an intellectual revival and applying the principles of 'ijtihad'. In some enlightened islamic communities it has already began - such as in Turkey.

What riles me FD, is critics like you, who spend your life ridiculing muslims for succumbing to extremism and violence - yet at the same time ridiculing muslims who advocate a reassessment of islamic doctrine in a genuine effort to rid the religion of that very extremism and violence. Taking the stubborn view that islam is not reformable and that it will always be violent and extreme - absolutely, never ever - is not going to achieve anything - given the simple fact that a religion of over 1 billion people are not just going to suddenly vanish from the face of the earth. Its time you and sprint and soren and baron etc etc stopped being such spoil sports and lend some support to the reformation movement, instead of constantly mocking it.

ian wrote on Aug 27^th, 2014 at 12:24am:

oh I see. you are a pretend Muslim what a pity. But no surprise.

to demonstrate how utterly smacking retarded your claim is, cite me a single example of a muslim - any muslim - opening up the Old Testament in order to reference a part of islamic doctrine. Because thats what would be needed if islam, in your words "uses the old testament".

Islam "uses" The Quran and the Ahadith, thats it. Nothing else. And no amount of quotes about how islam considers the OT as divine revelation for the people it was revealed to, is going to change this fact.

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 27^th, 2014 at 12:44am:

ian wrote on Aug 27th, 2014 at 12:24am: oh I see. you are a pretend Muslim what a pity. But no surprise. to demonstrate how utterly smacking retarded your claim is, cite me a single example of a muslim - any muslim - opening up the Old Testament in order to reference a part of islamic doctrine. Because thats what would be needed if islam, in your words "uses the old testament". Islam "uses" The Quran and the Ahadith, thats it. Nothing else. And no amount of quotes about how islam considers the OT as divine revelation for the people it was revealed to, is going to change this fact.

Bull sh!t. The Quran includes  the Torah which is the original Old testament.

The Quran mentions the Torah - as a previous and now obsolete revelation. Big difference.

The Quran, according to islam, is the final and complete revelation of God's word. Muslims need only "use" (there's that word again) the Quran (and the ahadith) for a complete reference of islamic doctrine. Muslims today do not "use" the Torah to reference islamic doctrine - because it has been abrogated by the Quran.

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 27^th, 2014 at 12:38am:

Islam has been hijacked by the hanbali fanatics who flagrantly violate the Quranic principles of free and rational thought - in favour of the rigid ahadith. This has not always been the case - during the golden age the islamic world was dominated by free and independent thinking. yet at the same time ridiculing muslims who advocate a reassessment of islamic doctrine in a genuine effort to rid the religion of that very extremism and violence. Taking the stubborn view that islam is not reformable and that it will always be violent and extreme - absolutely, never ever - is not going to achieve anything - given the simple fact that a religion of over 1 billion people are not just going to suddenly vanish from the face of the earth. Its time you and sprint and soren and baron etc etc stopped being such spoil sports and lend some support to the reformation movement, instead of constantly mocking it.

The freethinkers in the golden age were Persian atheists, you have already conceded al Razi was atheist, all you have is al haytham who wrote his book of optics while under house arrest and feigning madness because he feared a caliph.

The shiites do not follow the sunni ahadith,this is a major doctrinal difference between these sects.mind you these doctrinal differences come from books that were written hundreds of years after Mo died.

Quran only muslims are increasing in numbers,Hamza Yusef from the USA is well known,he claims only the Quran has divine origins.

As for reformation, well that is long overdue. ::)

Political Islam is what muslims have to discard along with death penalty for apostasy,blasphemy,atheists,homosexuals,witches,etc.

I like Dr Zuhdi Jasser who is the President for the American Islamic forum for democracy, he writes some good stuff about separation of mosque and state,here you go Gandalf check him out-
aifdemocracy.org

the Islamic golden age ended about 750 years ago.
it's a bit too far past there to harken back to it Gandalf.

if islam has been hijacked since then, it was pretty flawed, wasn't it ?

Baronvonrort wrote on Aug 27^th, 2014 at 1:06am:

The freethinkers in the golden age were Persian atheists, you have already conceded al Razi was atheist, all you have is al haytham who wrote his book of optics while under house arrest and feigning madness because he feared a caliph.

So you are really going to run with this story that in around 5-600 years of unprecedented intellectual flowering, in which the greatest and largest intellectual centres the world had ever seen sprung up - produced a grand total of 2 non-muslim, non-arabic free thinkers?


Sprintcyclist wrote on Aug 27^th, 2014 at 1:35am:

the Islamic golden age ended about 750 years ago. it's a bit too far past there to harken back to it Gandalf. if islam has been hijacked since then, it was pretty flawed, wasn't it ?

Not if you compare it to the pattern of just about every civilization in history - where a political and cultural prosperous period of about 500 years followed by a long period of stagnation is about standard. Sometimes it happens in reverse - as was the case with christianity. Jewish civilization went up and down like a yo yo for millennia.

Quote:

Not if you compare it to the pattern of just about every civilization in history - where a political and cultural prosperous period of about 500 years followed by a long period of stagnation is about standard.

Can you give some examples? The Roman Empire is the only obvious one to me. Most didn't last that long.


Quote:

The absurdity of the compulsion claim becomes instantly apparent by the simple phrase in the Quran "let there be no compulsion in religion" - amongst many many other similar sentiments.

Yes, this is quite absurd when compared against all the efforts of Muhammed and his followers to compel.


Quote:

Islam has been hijacked by the hanbali fanatics who flagrantly violate the Quranic principles of free and rational thought

Might as well start with Muhammed himself hijacking the peaceful tolerant Islam to build an expansionist military empire.


Quote:

What riles me FD, is critics like you, who spend your life ridiculing muslims for succumbing to extremism and violence - yet at the same time ridiculing muslims who advocate a reassessment of islamic doctrine in a genuine effort to rid the religion of that very extremism and violence.

I have been asking you some very simple questions about your reinterpretation of Islam. All I get in response is excuses for why you cannot possibly respond.


Quote:

Its time you and sprint and soren and baron etc etc stopped being such spoil sports and lend some support to the reformation movement, instead of constantly mocking it.

I would like to know what it is before supporting it. Just because you label it a reform does not mean it is fundamentally different. You are floundering to come up with anything that can claim consistency with Islam while not being open hostile to modern western values.

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 27^th, 2014 at 12:59am:

The Quran mentions the Torah - as a previous and now obsolete revelation. Big difference. The Quran, according to islam, is the final and complete revelation of God's word. Muslims need only "use" (there's that word again) the Quran (and the ahadith) for a complete reference of islamic doctrine. Muslims today do not "use" the Torah to reference islamic doctrine - because it has been abrogated by the Quran.

certainly has not been abrogated. let me post this reference again. you should know this.


Quote:

The Islamic view of the Christian Bible is based on the belief that the Bible is revelation from God that became distorted or corrupted (tahrif). The Qur'an – the revelation Muslims believe was given to the prophet Muhammad as a remedy – identifies three sets of books from the Bible as genuine divine revelation given to trusted messengers: the Tawrat (Torah) given to Musa (Moses), the Zabur (Psalms) given to Daud (David) and the Injil (Gospel) given to Isa (Jesus). Together, the Qur'an, these books and the now-unknown Suhuf Ibrahim ("Scrolls of Abraham") constitute Islam's scripture. Belief that this scripture is divinely inspired is one of Islam's fundamental tenets, but, since all scripture before the Qur'an is also held to have become corrupted, Muslims are directed to take guidance from the Qur'an alone.

ian wrote on Aug 27^th, 2014 at 2:06pm:

let me post this reference again

Gee Ian - what if I was to tell you that the random person on the internet who wrote that wiki passage without any references - is speaking out of his/her arse? The way he directly contradicts himself in the one paragraph should be a bit of a give away. Or perhaps you can assist him and give me an actual reference from the Quran where it says the Torah and Psalms etc "constitute Islam's scripture".

Also...


ian wrote on Aug 27^th, 2014 at 2:06pm:

certainly has not been abrogated.

from your own source:


Quote:

since all scripture before the Qur'an is also held to have become corrupted, Muslims are directed to take guidance from the Qur'an alone.

;D ;D

ian wrote on Aug 27^th, 2014 at 2:06pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 27th, 2014 at 12:59am: The Quran mentions the Torah - as a previous and now obsolete revelation. Big difference. The Quran, according to islam, is the final and complete revelation of God's word. Muslims need only "use" (there's that word again) the Quran (and the ahadith) for a complete reference of islamic doctrine. Muslims today do not "use" the Torah to reference islamic doctrine - because it has been abrogated by the Quran. certainly has not been abrogated. let me post this reference again. you should know this. Quote: The Islamic view of the Christian Bible is based on the belief that the Bible is revelation from God that became distorted or corrupted (tahrif). The Qur'an – the revelation Muslims believe was given to the prophet Muhammad as a remedy – identifies three sets of books from the Bible as genuine divine revelation given to trusted messengers: the Tawrat (Torah) given to Musa (Moses), the Zabur (Psalms) given to Daud (David) and the Injil (Gospel) given to Isa (Jesus). Together, the Qur'an, these books and the now-unknown Suhuf Ibrahim ("Scrolls of Abraham") constitute Islam's scripture.Belief that this scripture is divinely inspired is one of Islam's fundamental tenets, but, since all scripture before the Qur'an is also held to have become corrupted, Muslims are directed to take guidance from the Qur'an alone.

The previous texts have been abrogated by the Quran, Gandalf is a muslim he does know this as do all muslims,personal attack removed]

The torah/buy-bull have been corrupted by man ,this is why Allah sent Mohammad to fix this problem,Allah has protected the Quran from corruption if you read the Quran there is even a verse on this.
Muslims claim the Quran has never been corrupted because Allah has protected it from corruption.

The Quran abrogates the torah/buy-bull because they have been corrupted, your link even states those texts have been corrupted and muslims should only follow the Quran, do you comprehend what your link says.

I don't know why i even bother edit.

ian wrote on Aug 26^th, 2014 at 11:24pm:

I wouldnt mind a good religious argument but these proles are totally clueless and choose not to educate themselves.

You are the one who is totally clueless, try educating yourself.

Baronvonrort wrote on Aug 27^th, 2014 at 3:45pm:

ian wrote on Aug 27th, 2014 at 2:06pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 27th, 2014 at 12:59am: The Quran mentions the Torah - as a previous and now obsolete revelation. Big difference. The Quran, according to islam, is the final and complete revelation of God's word. Muslims need only "use" (there's that word again) the Quran (and the ahadith) for a complete reference of islamic doctrine. Muslims today do not "use" the Torah to reference islamic doctrine - because it has been abrogated by the Quran. certainly has not been abrogated. let me post this reference again. you should know this. Quote: The Islamic view of the Christian Bible is based on the belief that the Bible is revelation from God that became distorted or corrupted (tahrif). The Qur'an – the revelation Muslims believe was given to the prophet Muhammad as a remedy – identifies three sets of books from the Bible as genuine divine revelation given to trusted messengers: the Tawrat (Torah) given to Musa (Moses), the Zabur (Psalms) given to Daud (David) and the Injil (Gospel) given to Isa (Jesus). Together, the Qur'an, these books and the now-unknown Suhuf Ibrahim ("Scrolls of Abraham") constitute Islam's scripture.Belief that this scripture is divinely inspired is one of Islam's fundamental tenets, but, since all scripture before the Qur'an is also held to have become corrupted, Muslims are directed to take guidance from the Qur'an alone. The previous texts have been abrogated by the Quran, Gandalf is a muslim he does know this as do all muslims,personal attack removed] The torah/buy-bull have been corrupted by man ,this is why Allah sent Mohammad to fix this problem,Allah has protected the Quran from corruption if you read the Quran there is even a verse on this. Muslims claim the Quran has never been corrupted because Allah has protected it from corruption. The Quran abrogates the torah/buy-bull because they have been corrupted, your link even states those texts have been corrupted and muslims should only follow the Quran, do you comprehend what your link says. I don't know why i even bother edit.

How hard is it to understand something that is in black and white right in front of you and can be researched so easily? ? I feel like a rocket scicentist next to you people sometimes,  Let me highlight it again for you.

Quote:

The Qur'an – the revelation Muslims believe was given to the prophet Muhammad as a remedy – identifies three sets of books from the Bible as genuine divine revelation given to trusted messengers: the Tawrat (Torah) given to Musa (Moses), the Zabur (Psalms) given to Daud (David) and the Injil (Gospel) given to Isa (Jesus). Together, the Qur'an, these books and the now-unknown Suhuf Ibrahim ("Scrolls of Abraham") constitute Islam's scripture.Belief that this scripture is divinely inspired is one of Islam's fundamental tenets, but, [highlight]since all scripture before the Qur'an is also held to have become corrupted, Muslims are directed to take guidance from the Qur'an alone.

if you still cant understand that Islamic scripture is in part scripture from the Old testament then you really are dumb as dogsh!t.

Baronvonrort wrote on Aug 27^th, 2014 at 3:45pm:

[ The previous texts have been abrogated by the Quran, Gandalf is a muslim he does know this as do all muslims,personal attack removed]

nah, this is why i questioned Gandalf as being a real Muslim. Its obvious he wasnt aware that Islamic scripture is not only the Quran , and neither were you. I also suggest you look up the word abrogate so you know what it means, if you do at least one of you may end up using the word correctly.

ian wrote on Aug 27^th, 2014 at 4:37pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Aug 27th, 2014 at 3:45pm: ian wrote on Aug 27th, 2014 at 2:06pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 27th, 2014 at 12:59am: The Quran mentions the Torah - as a previous and now obsolete revelation. Big difference. The Quran, according to islam, is the final and complete revelation of God's word. Muslims need only "use" (there's that word again) the Quran (and the ahadith) for a complete reference of islamic doctrine. Muslims today do not "use" the Torah to reference islamic doctrine - because it has been abrogated by the Quran. certainly has not been abrogated. let me post this reference again. you should know this. Quote: The Islamic view of the Christian Bible is based on the belief that the Bible is revelation from God that became distorted or corrupted (tahrif). The Qur'an – the revelation Muslims believe was given to the prophet Muhammad as a remedy – identifies three sets of books from the Bible as genuine divine revelation given to trusted messengers: the Tawrat (Torah) given to Musa (Moses), the Zabur (Psalms) given to Daud (David) and the Injil (Gospel) given to Isa (Jesus). Together, the Qur'an, these books and the now-unknown Suhuf Ibrahim ("Scrolls of Abraham") constitute Islam's scripture.Belief that this scripture is divinely inspired is one of Islam's fundamental tenets, but, since all scripture before the Qur'an is also held to have become corrupted, Muslims are directed to take guidance from the Qur'an alone. The previous texts have been abrogated by the Quran, Gandalf is a muslim he does know this as do all muslims,personal attack removed] The torah/buy-bull have been corrupted by man ,this is why Allah sent Mohammad to fix this problem,Allah has protected the Quran from corruption if you read the Quran there is even a verse on this. Muslims claim the Quran has never been corrupted because Allah has protected it from corruption. The Quran abrogates the torah/buy-bull because they have been corrupted, your link even states those texts have been corrupted and muslims should only follow the Quran, do you comprehend what your link says. I don't know why i even bother edit. How hard is it to understand something that is in black and white right in front of you and can be researched so easily? ? I feel like a rocket scicentist next to you people sometimes,  Let me highlight it again for you. [quote]The Qur'an – the revelation Muslims believe was given to the prophet Muhammad as a remedy – identifies three sets of books from the Bible as genuine divine revelation given to trusted messengers: the Tawrat (Torah) given to Musa (Moses), the Zabur (Psalms) given to Daud (David) and the Injil (Gospel) given to Isa (Jesus). Together, the Qur'an, these books and the now-unknown Suhuf Ibrahim ("Scrolls of Abraham") constitute Islam's scripture[/size].Belief that this scripture is divinely inspired is one of Islam's fundamental tenets, but, [highlight]since all scripture before the Qur'an is also held to have become corrupted, Muslims are directed to take guidance from the Qur'an alone.

if you still cant understand that Islamic scripture is in part scripture from the Old testament then you really are dumb as dogsh!t.[/quote]

You must be delusional as well as stupid if you feel like an Aerospace engineer, no chance of you being accepted at uni.

Take note of the highlighted part of your link which says all scripture before the Quran has been corrupted.

Muslims do not believe Jesus was the son of god, muslims believe Jesus was just a prophet and God does not have a son.

You are the one who is  dumb as dogshit,i linked the oldest Islamic website on the internet which said the Quran abrogated previous texts,Gandalf even confirmed this yet you insist you know better, i dont see any point in arguing with a dumbfukistani like you.

ian wrote on Aug 27^th, 2014 at 4:41pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Aug 27th, 2014 at 3:45pm: [ The previous texts have been abrogated by the Quran, Gandalf is a muslim he does know this as do all muslims,personal attack removed] nah, this is why i questioned Gandalf as being a real Muslim. Its obvious he wasnt aware that Islamic scripture is not only the Quran , and neither were you. I also suggest you look up the word abrogate so you know what it means, if you do at least one of you may end up using the word correctly.

Gandalf is a muslim.

Islamic scripture for Gandalf being from the sunni side of Islam would be the Quran,Sahih al Bukhari,Sahih Muslim and Abu Dawud.

Islamic scriptures for the shia will be the Quran and al Kafi.

No muslims use the torah or bible they are outdated obsolete texts that have been corrupted by man.
The Quran has never been corrupted,Allah protects the Quran from corruption.
quran.com/15/9

You are clueless about every topic you post in, i rate you with spot of borg for idiocy.

Baronvonrort wrote on Aug 27^th, 2014 at 3:45pm:

.....The torah/buy-bull have been corrupted by man ,this is why Allah sent Mohammad to fix this problem,Allah has protected the Quran from corruption if you read the Quran there is even a verse on this. Muslims claim the Quran has never been corrupted because Allah has protected it from corruption. The Quran abrogates the torah/buy-bull because they have been corrupted, your link even states those texts have been corrupted and muslims should only follow the Quran, do you comprehend what your link says.

Allah states in teh inerrant Koran that he protected 1/ the Torah, and 2/ the Gospel of Jesus, and 3/ the Koran.

But moslems claim that the Torah and Gospel of Jesus, were corrupted - BUT NOT THE KORAN.


QUESTION;
After stating that those scriptures were under Allah's protection, why wasn't Allah able to protect 1/ the Torah, and 2/ the Gospel of Jesus - AS ALLAH HAS DECLARED ?






http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1295396564/0#0

Quote:

Here are some of the Koran verses, which refer to, 'the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus)'... "Allah! There is no god but He,-the Living, the Self-Subsisting, Eternal. It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment between right and wrong)." Koran 3.2-3 "And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah. Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein...... To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety:......." Koran 5.46-48 "If only they had stood fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that was sent to them from their Lord, they would have enjoyed happiness from every side.........Those who believe (in the Qur'an), those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians and the Christians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness,- on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve." Koran 5.66-69 n.b. In the above quote, note the use of the present tense, 'who follow'. "Then, in their wake, We followed them up with (others of) Our messengers: We sent after them Jesus the son of Mary, and bestowed on him the Gospel;....." Koran 57.27

Baronvonrort wrote on Aug 27^th, 2014 at 5:22pm:

Gandalf is a muslim. Islamic scripture for Gandalf being from the sunni side of Islam....

Baron,

Do you believe that Gandalf is a Sunni ???????

Has he ever declared it to be so ?

Yadda wrote on Aug 27^th, 2014 at 5:31pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Aug 27th, 2014 at 5:22pm: Gandalf is a muslim. Islamic scripture for Gandalf being from the sunni side of Islam.... Baron, Do you believe that Gandalf is a Sunni ??????? Has he ever declared it to be so ?

He recognises and has cited the sunni ahadith which is something a shia would not do.

Yadda wrote on Aug 27^th, 2014 at 5:28pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Aug 27th, 2014 at 3:45pm: .....The torah/buy-bull have been corrupted by man ,this is why Allah sent Mohammad to fix this problem,Allah has protected the Quran from corruption if you read the Quran there is even a verse on this. Muslims claim the Quran has never been corrupted because Allah has protected it from corruption. The Quran abrogates the torah/buy-bull because they have been corrupted, your link even states those texts have been corrupted and muslims should only follow the Quran, do you comprehend what your link says. Allah states in teh inerrant Koran that he protected 1/ the Torah, and 2/ the Gospel of Jesus, and 3/ the Koran. But moslems claim that the Torah and Gospel of Jesus, were corrupted - BUT NOT THE KORAN. QUESTION; After stating that those scriptures were under Allah's protection, why wasn't Allah able to protect 1/ the Torah, and 2/ the Gospel of Jesus - AS ALLAH HAS DECLARED ? http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1295396564/0#0 Quote: Here are some of the Koran verses, which refer to, 'the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus)'... "Allah! There is no god but He,-the Living, the Self-Subsisting, Eternal. It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment between right and wrong)." Koran 3.2-3 "And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah. Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein...... To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety:......." Koran 5.46-48 "If only they had stood fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that was sent to them from their Lord, they would have enjoyed happiness from every side.........Those who believe (in the Qur'an), those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians and the Christians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness,- on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve." Koran 5.66-69 n.b. In the above quote, note the use of the present tense, 'who follow'. "Then, in their wake, We followed them up with (others of) Our messengers: We sent after them Jesus the son of Mary, and bestowed on him the Gospel;....." Koran 57.27

Allah could not protect anything,he was Muhammad's sock puppet. :)

What happened to the verse on stoning why is it missing from the Quran, did Allah say he would protect the Quran?
sunnah.com/urn/1262630

Baronvonrort wrote on Aug 27^th, 2014 at 5:22pm:

Gandalf is a muslim. [/quoter] If he is he isd one who diodnt know the Old testament was part of his own religious belief system. Quote: Islamic scriptures for the shia will be the Quran and al Kafi. No muslims use the torah or bible they are outdated obsolete texts that have been corrupted by man. The Quran has never been corrupted,Allah protects the Quran from corruption. quran.com/15/9 Incorrect as I have just shown. I still cant beleive you are denying what is in black and white before your eyes, even a  simple google would confirm for you that I am correct. Yet you persist in making yourself look like a fool, Im quite happy to let you continue to do so. [quote]You are clueless about every topic you post in, i rate you with spot of borg for idiocy.

yes, i agree, you were wrong and now look foolish because you refused to accept it. I totally agree.

Bobby. wrote on Aug 27^th, 2014 at 12:06am:

The beheading craze is now going world wide: http://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2014/aug/26/brazil-prison-riot-beheadings-video Quote: A prison riot at the Cascavel state penitentiary in Brazil's Paraná state has turned deadly, with four people reported dead. According to the authorities, about 700 inmates have taken part in the uprising, which began on Sunday morning. Two prisoners are believed to have been beheaded and two thrown off the roof. The rebels are demanding better living conditions. I hope it doesn't catch on in Australia too?

bump

Please desist from personal attacks - everyone.

Bobby. wrote on Aug 26^th, 2014 at 11:59pm:

How can we stop Muslims from smashing up the whole world?

Is that their intent, Bobby?   ::)

Sprintcyclist wrote on Aug 26^th, 2014 at 3:39pm:

So, the most islamic country in the world .......... has it all wrong ??

The "most Christian country in the world," appears to get quite a bit wrong as well, Sprint.   Perhaps people aspire to be good [insert religion adherent of choice here] but often fall short?   ::)

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 27^th, 2014 at 8:13pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 26th, 2014 at 11:59pm: How can we stop Muslims from smashing up the whole world? Is that their intent, Bobby?   ::)

Yes the previous moderator here on the Islam thread admitted that
he wanted Sharia law in Australia & no doubt - the whole world.

They want to rule the world with their barbaric bronze age thinking.

Bobby. wrote on Aug 27^th, 2014 at 8:34pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 27th, 2014 at 8:13pm: Bobby. wrote on Aug 26th, 2014 at 11:59pm: How can we stop Muslims from smashing up the whole world? Is that their intent, Bobby?   ::) Yes the previous moderator here on the Islam thread admitted that he wanted Sharia law in Australia & no doubt - the whole world. They want to rule the world with their barbaric bronze age thinking.

No bobby!!!

You are mistaken.

Moslems want to bring peace to the whole world.

To the moslem, ISLAM, is that 'peace'.








Quote:

[quote] Bashir calls bombers 'counter-terrorists' June 26, 2007 HARDLINE Islamic cleric Abu Bakar Bashir said today that extremists blamed for Indonesian bombings were role models for other Muslims and feted them as "counter-terrorists." "There are no terrorists in Indonesia. What there are, are counter-terrorists," Bashir said. ......But he called on Indonesian Muslims to refrain from accusing people of terrorism, saying it would be tantamount to assisting the US. Bashir spoke at a press conference to announce plans, together with 13 lawyers from the "Team for the Defence of Muslims," to file a suit demanding that Indonesia's counter-terrorism police unit be disbanded. Lawyer Munarman alleged that the counter-terrorism squad was financed opaquely by the US, sought to make war against Islam and used torture to secure admissions from suspects. He also said that the squad was discriminatory as it only acted against Muslims, adding the team planned to file the suit on tomorrow at the South Jakarta district court. Bashir has redoubled his efforts to get Sharia law enforced in Indonesia, the world's most populous Muslim nation, since his release from prison.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,21973518-23109,00.html



All non-moslems should be told, and should come to understand and know, that moslems and non-moslems define certain common words very, very differently.

To a moslem words like these, mean...

Peace = = Submission to Allah is the only peace recognized in Islam.

Righteousness = = Is following the Way of Allah. A moslem can be a killer and murder of non-moslems and yet be regarded by all good moslems as a righteous person.

Good works = = To be good for a moslem is to submit to Allah's will and then follow the 'right' path established by the examples set by the Prophet. [Murdering critics and murdering other assorted 'enemies', pirating against peaceful non-moslem communities, paedophilia, raping women captives which were secured in raiding parties, etc. ALL THESE ACTIONS BY MOHAMMED ARE CATALOGUED AND RECORDED IN THE HADITH.]


Source for how moslems define the meaning of words differently,

Google,
Islam 101: A Lexicon for Dummies


July 28, 2006
Islamic Dictionary for Infidels
"...the quest of converting the entire world to Islam is an immutable fixture of the Muslim worldview. Only if this task is accomplished, if the world has become a "Dar al-Islam," will it also be a "Dar a-Salam," or a house of peace." "
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2006/07/islamic-dictionary-for-infidels.html

[/quote]

Bobby. wrote on Aug 27^th, 2014 at 8:34pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 27th, 2014 at 8:13pm: Bobby. wrote on Aug 26th, 2014 at 11:59pm: How can we stop Muslims from smashing up the whole world? Is that their intent, Bobby?   ::) Yes the previous moderator here on the Islam thread admitted that he wanted Sharia law in Australia & no doubt - the whole world. They want to rule the world with their barbaric bronze age thinking.

So, all Muslims think that?  Really?  And you base your evidence on the opinions of one person?   ::)

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 27^th, 2014 at 11:59pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 27th, 2014 at 8:34pm: Brian Ross wrote on Aug 27th, 2014 at 8:13pm: Bobby. wrote on Aug 26th, 2014 at 11:59pm: How can we stop Muslims from smashing up the whole world? Is that their intent, Bobby?   ::) Yes the previous moderator here on the Islam thread admitted that he wanted Sharia law in Australia & no doubt - the whole world. They want to rule the world with their barbaric bronze age thinking. So, all Muslims think that?  Really?  And you base your evidence on the opinions of one person?   ::)

The opinions contained within one book, brian.

It is all there,  ....within the one book brian, the moslem 'playbook',     it is called the Koran.

Sharia law, killing, subjugating disbelievers, war booty [i.e. sex slaves], moslems ruling the world [as proxies for Allah], moslems obeying their virtuous community leaders.

A moslems everywhere are just waiting for the properly guided moslems to 'come', and to create the moslem utopia for them.

Any year now!!!      [.....they've been waiting for 1,400 years so far.]





"We sent not a messenger, but to be obeyed..........they ['believers'] can have no (real) Faith, until they make thee judge in all disputes between them, and find in their souls no resistance against Thy decisions, but accept them with the fullest conviction."
Koran 4.64, 65


"O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the messenger [i.e. the clerics], and make not vain your deeds!"
Koran 47:33

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 27^th, 2014 at 11:59pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 27th, 2014 at 8:34pm: Brian Ross wrote on Aug 27th, 2014 at 8:13pm: Bobby. wrote on Aug 26th, 2014 at 11:59pm: How can we stop Muslims from smashing up the whole world? Is that their intent, Bobby?   ::) Yes the previous moderator here on the Islam thread admitted that he wanted Sharia law in Australia & no doubt - the whole world. They want to rule the world with their barbaric bronze age thinking. So, all Muslims think that?  Really?  And you base your evidence on the opinions of one person?   ::)

I base my opinions on countries like Saudi Arabia & Iran.

ian wrote on Aug 27^th, 2014 at 7:04pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Aug 27th, 2014 at 5:22pm: Gandalf is a muslim. [/quoter] Quote: Islamic scriptures for the shia will be the Quran and al Kafi. No muslims use the torah or bible they are outdated obsolete texts that have been corrupted by man. The Quran has never been corrupted,Allah protects the Quran from corruption. quran.com/15/9 Incorrect as I have just shown. I still cant beleive you are denying what is in black and white before your eyes, even a  simple google would confirm for you that I am correct. Yet you persist in making yourself look like a fool, Im quite happy to let you continue to do so. [quote]You are clueless about every topic you post in, i rate you with spot of borg for idiocy. yes, i agree, you were wrong and now look foolish because you refused to accept it. I totally agree.

So what punishment can a muslim expect from the Muttawwa if they are caught reading a bible/torah in Saudi Arabia,Yemen,Kuwait,Iran or the Uae?

What is the punishment for a muslim distributing the bible or torah in those countries?

What is a muttawwa?

Gandalf and the oldest Islamic website on the internet said you were wrong yet you insist you know more than them.
;D :D ;D :D ;D

Baronvonrort wrote on Aug 28^th, 2014 at 10:05am:

Gandalf and the oldest Islamic website on the internet said you were wrong yet you insist you know more than them.

Sorry Baron - random internet guy editing wikipedia with no citation trumps all  :D

freediver wrote on Aug 27^th, 2014 at 1:30pm:

Quote: Not if you compare it to the pattern of just about every civilization in history - where a political and cultural prosperous period of about 500 years followed by a long period of stagnation is about standard. Can you give some examples? The Roman Empire is the only obvious one to me. Most didn't last that long.

Egypt, Babylon, Persia, Greeks - the jewish kingdoms as already mentioned. No doubt many others. All these civilizations went through extended periods of cultural flowering, followed by stagnation, and then quite often a repeat - on and on for millennia. Of course not all civilizations rose more than once, but the "shelf life" of each period was roughly consistent - interestingly.



Quote:

I have been asking you some very simple questions about your reinterpretation of Islam. All I get in response is excuses for why you cannot possibly respond.

Complete rubbish. This is like you harping on for months about how I never expanded on my "universal morality" theory of Muhammad's example, until it eventually seemed to sink in that I did - after linking you back to the relevant post for about the 10th time.

But of course we both know this is just a convenient excuse. The reassessment that you cry I never expanded on is more than adequately outlined in the thread I started about it. But as always you just want to bring it back to a sh!tfest about sex-slaves, knowing perfectly well that it would derail any possibility of constructive dialogue. Not to mention the fact that I have made my views about those alleged references to "sex slaves" perfectly clear - ie they are non-existent.


Quote:

I would like to know what it is before supporting it. Just because you label it a reform does not mean it is fundamentally different. You are floundering to come up with anything that can claim consistency with Islam while not being open hostile to modern western values.

If you don't know what it is I am advocating then you clearly haven't read my post on it. Its very simple really - the Quran is deliberately broad and mostly non-specific, leading the 'rationalist' school of thought (includes me) to conclude that the Quran advocates free thought, flexibility and the very real possibility of the sort of consideration for equality and human rights that we hold to today. This is being prevented, IMO, by the dominance of the sunna in islamic law, which has a rule on pretty much every conceivable human action - and effectively turns muslims into automatons with no free thought.

Sunna noun: (islam) the way of life prescribed as normative for muslims on the basis of the teachings and practices of muhammad and interpretations of the qur'an

If muhammad left the last perfect scriptures, never to be changed or revised.

If muhammad was the acme of perfection with over-flowing guidance and resplendent light.

Why are muslims the most inbred, illiterate, psychopathic, torturers, terrorists and mass murderers, on this planet?

islam can never reform unless it rejects the teachings of muhammad, the commands of allah, the verses in the qur'an, the records in the hadi'th, which have caused the inbreeding, illiteracy, the homicidal maniacs running around reveling in inhumane acts of terror, torture and mass murder.

But then, thats the end of islam, as there is nothing left, islam / allah / muhammad / qur'an, were all wrong.

The biggest enemy islam has, is truth it'self. 

Saudi, isis , boko haran.


Quote:

.......Soon, by Allah’s permission, a day will come when the Muslim will walk everywhere as a master, having honour, being revered, with his head raised high and his dignity preserved. Anyone who dares to offend him will be disciplined, and any hand that reaches out to harm him will be cut off. — From ISIS magazine Dabiq....

this is the arrogance of muslims

Bobby. wrote on Aug 28^th, 2014 at 7:04am:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 27th, 2014 at 11:59pm: Bobby. wrote on Aug 27th, 2014 at 8:34pm: Brian Ross wrote on Aug 27th, 2014 at 8:13pm: Bobby. wrote on Aug 26th, 2014 at 11:59pm: How can we stop Muslims from smashing up the whole world? Is that their intent, Bobby?   ::) Yes the previous moderator here on the Islam thread admitted that he wanted Sharia law in Australia & no doubt - the whole world. They want to rule the world with their barbaric bronze age thinking. So, all Muslims think that?  Really?  And you base your evidence on the opinions of one person?   ::) I base my opinions on countries like Saudi Arabia & Iran.

So, the populations, the entire societies of those nations agree with that, 100%, Bobby?  You have evidence to support that viewpoint?  Or once again are you extrapolating from the opinions of one person?   ::)

BTW, I haven't seen much evidence that either Saudi Arabia or Iran have gone on the warpath, attempting to export their versions (which are very different to each other) of Islam to the rest of the world, Bobby.  Perhaps I've missed some media reports?  Would you care to point me to them?   ::)

Sprintcyclist wrote on Aug 28^th, 2014 at 8:08pm:

Saudi, isis , boko haran. Quote: .......Soon, by Allah’s permission, a day will come when the Muslim will walk everywhere as a master, having honour, being revered, with his head raised high and his dignity preserved. Anyone who dares to offend him will be disciplined, and any hand that reaches out to harm him will be cut off. — From ISIS magazine Dabiq.... this is the arrogance of muslims

Yep sprint,

Moslems are a proud people, and they have a lot to be proud about.




"Ye [moslems] are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah. If only the People of the Book had faith, it were best for them: among them are some who have faith, but most of them are perverted transgressors."
Koran 3.110

Moslems are righteous, peaceful, tolerant, virtuous people.

And we infidels must understand, that it is - ISLAM - which inspires moslems to be the virtuous people.       :P






IMAGE....
http://thereligionofpeace.com/index_files/happy.jpg
The one holding the AK47 is - Abdullah - from Sydney, on his holy-days.

Moslems, doing 'good works'.

Bringing Allah's peace to mankind.          :P

  Koran 9.123




SOURCE;
THE RELIGION OF PEACE
http://thereligionofpeace.com/

Thank goodness the Jets are warm on the runway. Hopefully we can get more of them this time around.

SweetLambo wrote on Aug 28^th, 2014 at 11:03pm:

Thank goodness the Jets are warm on the runway. Hopefully we can get more of them this time around.

That's right, Yasser. Better get them over there before they come over here.

Four Lebanese chicken shops in my area, and that's four too many.

Stop the boats. Send in the Jets.

Oh brave new world, that hath such warm Jets in it.

It is a jolly world, no?

Of course I am right, just bomb the whole country back to the stone age they love so much and get a better KD ratio this time. The kebab shops can keep serving me kebabs the way they already are and you can Fly around the Islamic garbage bins like you normally do looking for an old chop FD has thrown in there. That should keep you jolly jumbo.

Baronvonrort wrote on Aug 28^th, 2014 at 10:05am:

ian wrote on Aug 27th, 2014 at 7:04pm: Baronvonrort wrote on Aug 27th, 2014 at 5:22pm: Gandalf is a muslim. [/quoter] Quote: Islamic scriptures for the shia will be the Quran and al Kafi. No muslims use the torah or bible they are outdated obsolete texts that have been corrupted by man. The Quran has never been corrupted,Allah protects the Quran from corruption. quran.com/15/9 Incorrect as I have just shown. I still cant beleive you are denying what is in black and white before your eyes, even a  simple google would confirm for you that I am correct. Yet you persist in making yourself look like a fool, Im quite happy to let you continue to do so. [quote]You are clueless about every topic you post in, i rate you with spot of borg for idiocy. yes, i agree, you were wrong and now look foolish because you refused to accept it. I totally agree. So what punishment can a muslim expect from the Muttawwa if they are caught reading a bible/torah in Saudi Arabia,Yemen,Kuwait,Iran or the Uae? What is the punishment for a muslim distributing the bible or torah in those countries? What is a muttawwa? Gandalf and the oldest Islamic website on the internet said you were wrong yet you insist you know more than them. ;D :D ;D :D ;D

what a load of cr@p.