TGD,
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Rubbish - printing money causes inflation which is another form of tax -

people lose their savings including their Super value.

By the time people retire their Super won't even be worth half of what it was
when they put it in there.
For young people today it will be worth only 10% in buying power
when they retire in 40 years.

TGD,
Quote:


They are not working.
Inflation is much higher than what the statistics show. e.g.
In one suburb close to mine, unit and apartment prices went up 27% in one year. 

Electricity prices went up so much that the Govt helped
us out by paying a lot of bills for us.
What money did they use? - borrowed money. 

MMT is all based on funny money , fake economics.
It is what put us into $1 trillion of debt and the Yanks into $37 trillion of debt:

https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/us-debt-tops-37-trillion-big-beautiful-bill-...

Bobby. wrote on Aug 20^th, 2025 at 12:03pm:
 

Note: you are referring to price rises in specific sectors, whereas the important inflation figure for the whole (macro) economy is measured by institutions including the central bank.

Of course we have a housing crisis in Oz, and the specific prices rises you mention are a symptom of that crisis; but inflation has come down from a post covid high of c.8%, to around 2.5% in the last quarter.

People not in the market for apartments aren't concerned by a 27% increase in apartment prices;they are concerned with the overall CPI.

Whereas they ARE concerned by the massive increase in grocery prices during the post covid high-inflation episode - which  have not been ameliorated by a corresponding increase in wages, hence the current concern re falling productivity and living standards in Oz - and Chalmers' current 'productivity' talk-fest now in progress. 


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Correct, money borrowed from rich people and banks who bought government bonds. This site is about public money which doesn't have to be borrowed from the private sector.

The reason why the concept of public money hasn't been accepted by the mainstream is the failure of some MMT lecturers to identify public sector (non-market) inflation control  tools**,  while relying on non-government ('invisible hand') free market)  inflation control tools, namely, monetary policy determined by the central bank independently of government acting for the public sector.

**eg central planning including price controls and non-market allocation of resources where desirable to achieve desired public outcomes (...eg, subcontracting the building industry - an idea you rejected because it's "Marxism" - who cares so long as it ends the Oz housing crisis and  stabilizes house prices?).   

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As noted previously, ALL money is "funny money" in that it is created out of thin air......magic, no?....

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Your error: that debt can be paid back by "printing money" (the bond holders won't go out and spend that money all at once any more than they would at completion of the bond's term), or letting the increasing debt stand forever; note that the US economy is the fastest-growing G7 economy despite its massive debt.

The problem is wealth distribution, not governement debt which represents money which has not been taxed back by the government, and has thus remained in the private sector's savings accounts.

Hence the MMT maxim: "The government's debt is the private sector's savings". 

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Not a problem, provided the US economy remains productive and avoids inflation, as at presen (like Oz, US inflation is back to the 2-3% range). The real looming problem for the US is likely to be rising costs due to Trumps' tariffs - which is causing Jerome Powell's hestitancy re cutting interest rates further, making him Trump's 'public enemy no 1.'.   

Bobby. wrote on Aug 20^th, 2025 at 2:14pm:


Not apologising for anything, I'm promoting 'public money for public good'.

Otoh, YOU are an apologist for delusional Neoclassical economics.

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You can't eat gold; and as I said, the US is not financially constrained, because it issues its own currency. There are of course non-financial constraints on the US government (eg, real resource availability, need for sensible planning to avoid inflation and maintain productive capacity etc)

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You are obsessed by gold (because you think the US government is financially constrained) ; I'm promoting public money for public good.

...to end poverty and homelessness existing alongside billionaires.

We need a self-financing public sector, alongside a self-financing private sector (only the latter exists at present). 

We can have it, because MMT has revealed what money is and how it is created, ie, ' out of thin air'.

Naturally you - being blinded by Neoclassical orthodoxy -  were unable to carry on the debate re debt-free, treasury-issued money (public money), and how to avoid inflation,  so you bailed out saying I'm an apologist for "wreckless monetary policies".

Yet mainstream economics is failing people everywhere as they experience cost of living and housing crises  (except the billionaires), as governments are forced to pay back debt (with interest) to rich bondholders....so much for "wreckless monetary policies".

Bobby. wrote on Aug 21^st, 2025 at 11:23am:


That's not addressing the argument, rather an admission you can't address the issues.

Meanwhile Trump is saying "we will send in the national guard and clean up our once great city of San Francisco which has been ruined by the Democrats".

He's indeed dreamin' - he's forgetting he will have to build decent housing for the homeless and guarantee employment for all if he wants to eradicate poverty and crime in  San Francisco.

Interestingly, CA - home of the 'Magnifcent 7 US tech companies - has so much private wealth, it could easily do just that with CA's billionaires not even noticing a reduction in their wealth...

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Doesn't matter, as already addressed - which you are too ignorant to debate...

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The gold standard was abandoned by Nixon, do try to keep up.

Gold's value is now little more than a ponzi, like crypto (though gold does look pretty),  the result of people not understanding fiat currency, how it is created,  and how governments can ensure fiat's value as a means of exchange.

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Your ignorance and refusal to learn is NOT forgiven.

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That's what mainstream economists have been saying for decades - see the infamous 'debt-clock' near  Times Square in New York; yet decades later the US is the world's fastest growing  G7 economy  (though fighting like hell to contain China's rise), while other nation's are forced to 'balance their budgets' as demanded by mainstream Neoclassical ideologues. That's why politics is in disarray all around the world.

fyi: 

https://profstevekeen.substack.com/p/triggering-crises-by-reducing-government

Triggering Crises by Reducing Government Debt. Chapter 05 of Money and Macroeconomics from First Principles, for Elon Musk and Other Engineers
What Musk thinks will revive the economy is more likely to trigger a serious recession.

Steve Keen
Mar 15, 2025

(first paragraph)

The beliefs that the State faces a fiscal crisis if its debt gets too high, and that it is prudent for the government to reduce its debt by running surpluses rather than deficits, have existed since the dawn of the Republic. The empirical record of such attempts is definitive, and runs contrary to the expectations of governments at those times. A serious crisis, triggered by a private debt bubble and crash, has followed every sustained attempt to reduce government debt. This can be seen by comparing data on government and private debt back to 1834.

There's the statistical reality re government debt.

Be warned.   

Bobby. wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2025 at 3:06pm:


Caused by Zimbabwe confiscating farms of (white) farmers who knew how to grow food; and govt. printing money in a vain attempt to enable the population to purchase the now less available and more expensive food.

The Zimbabwe hyper-inflation is only one of many infamous hyper-inflationary episodes in history, each with its own specific causes.

More relevant to this discussion is the fact that US (and Oz) inflation has returned to the 'preferred' 2-3% range (after the covid-induced  inflation spike), and yet US debt is still soaring.

Care to explain that?

   

I just put another $100 into bitcoin and my balance is now 195..58.

Given coinspot outrageous fees of $1 a transaction I calculated even losses are better then what my balance in super is losing with fees in the thousands.

Daves2017 wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2025 at 10:41pm:


Yes, until someone  with a large holding  decides to take profits and sell bitcoin.

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?

Last year super funds grew by  10%:

(google)

For example, as of June 2025, the median Growth fund returned 10.5%, while more conservative options may have delivered around 6.68% in the same period.

What fees are you paying?

The important thing is the value of the currency (Oz dollars) in your super funds is related to the value of Oz's productive capacity and resulting output; whereas the value of bitcoin is related to .......you tell us.....