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Electoral fraud gets bipartisan support in Senate (Read 13435 times)
freediver
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Electoral fraud gets bipartisan support in Senate
Apr 5th, 2019 at 7:36pm
 
Electoral fraud gets bipartisan support from Senators

http://www.ozpolitic.com/electoral-reform/electoral-fraud-bipartisan-support-sen...

Our Senators can no longer be trusted to fulfil a simple but important duty entrusted to them under Australia's constitution. From 2019 until 2022 both the Labor Party and the Coalition will get an extra seat in the federal Senate. This will affect the balance of power and will affect the ability to pass legislation. They got these extra seats by reneging on repeated promises made to the Australian public to respect the constitution and allocate 3 and 6 year senate terms according to a method agreed to before the election results are announced. This is not the first time this has happened.

This electoral fraud is enabled by public apathy and a shocking failure of the mainstream media to report basic facts. Prior to the announcement of the 2016 election results, The Australian, The Sydney Morning Herald and the ABC all reported on bipartisan senate resolutions, passed with Labor and Coalition support in 1998 and 2010, to use a new, fairer method to allocate 3 and 6 year terms. Unfortunately, when the electoral dice were rolled, they came up in favour of the old method, which the major parties used to give 6 year terms to Deborah O'Neill (Labor, NSW) and Scott Ryan (Liberal, VIC), at the expense of Lee Rhiannon (Greens) and Derryn Hinch. When they announced that they would break their promise and give themselves the extra senators from 2019, The Australian, The Sydney Morning Herald, and all their associated publications went silent on the bipartisan resolutions of 1998 and 2010, reporting instead the careful spin offered up by the major parties. There was no indication that they even asked the major parties about their broken promise. The ABC briefly mentioned the bipartisan senate resolutions in a single article published after the announcement.

This is, at best, lazy and incompetent journalism. At worst, our most respected journalists are actively conspiring with the major parties to help them escape public awareness of, and criticism for undermining the constitution by voting to change the election outcome. The 'victim' senators did not exactly help the matter either. Hinch concocted his own alternative scheme to give an unfair share of 6 year terms to independent and minor parties. Rhiannon complained about the outcome, but if the media reports are anything to go by did not mention the broken promises or provide any substantive basis for her complaint.

A fortnight ago I emailed all 76 sitting senators about this issue. This is what I sent:

Subject: allocation of long and short term senate seats

Dear Senator,

If you were to be re-elected in a double dissolution election, which method would you support for allocating 3 and 6 year terms to elected senators?

A) The order-elected method

B) The recount method

C) Some other method you prefer (if so, please elaborate…)

D) You will decide on the day based on which option hands your fellow party members extra 6 year terms

Also, would you support a constitutional change to close this loophole, for example requiring senate candidates for a double dissolution election to declare on their application paperwork which method they will use (and to keep their word)?

Do you think this is an important issue?


So far, two senators have responded: Dean Smith (Liberal, WA) and Claire Moore (Labor, QLD). Smith said it was an interesting question, but not one has put his mind to - despite it being his first order of business to vote on this issue after his election to the Senate in 2016. He said he would trust the decision to the wisdom and authority of the senate, apparently oblivious to the fact that he is that very authority. Likewise Claire Moore said she did not have an opinion and would need more information. This is about as close as a politician will get to admitting they are going with option D.

This is an unacceptable abuse of the Australian constitution. Our senators are so confident of public apathy that they have forgotten the carefully crafted spin of 2016 and now respond with careless disinterest, meaningless gibberish, or give us the 'grin and nod' routine. Unfortunately, they are getting away with it. This will only stop if you take action, by:
  • Letting people know about the problem.
  • Contacting Senators to let them know you expect them to put an end to this ongoing constitutional crisis.
  • Punishing the major parties in the Senate in 2019, to reduce their incentive to commit further fraud.
  • Writing to the journalists involved and letting them know you are dissatisfied with their incompetence in failing to hold the major parties publicly accountable for breaking their promises and voting to change the election outcome.

Journalists who 'covered' the 2016 senate election controversy include Fergus Hunter from The Sydney Morning Herald, Jared Owens from The Australian and Nick Harmsen from the ABC.
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John Smith
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Re: Electoral fraud gets bipartisan support in Senate
Reply #1 - Apr 5th, 2019 at 7:39pm
 
did you just copy this straight from a similar thread you started during the last election campaign (or was it the one before that?)?
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freediver
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Re: Electoral fraud gets bipartisan support in Senate
Reply #2 - Apr 8th, 2019 at 6:58pm
 
I apologise for interrupting your petty squabbling, again.

It is a new article with new content.

The Labor party and the Coalition announced their scheme to commit electoral fraud about a month after the last federal election. Their fraud will not take effect until July this year. Both labor and the coalition will have an extra, stolen Senate seat from then until June 2022. This will affect the balance of power and the ability to pass legislation, and will undermine the constitutional role of the Senate.

This is the first and probably only real opportunity the Australian public have to make themselves heard on the matter.

Do you think it is an important issue?
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John Smith
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Re: Electoral fraud gets bipartisan support in Senate
Reply #3 - Apr 8th, 2019 at 7:18pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 8th, 2019 at 6:58pm:
Do you think it is an important issue?


no
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Re: Electoral fraud gets bipartisan support in Senate
Reply #4 - Apr 8th, 2019 at 7:38pm
 
John Smith wrote on Apr 5th, 2019 at 7:39pm:
did you just copy this straight from a similar thread you started during the last election campaign (or was it the one before that?)?


Does it matter it is a disgraceful corrupt abuse that needs to be fixed.
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Re: Electoral fraud gets bipartisan support in Senate
Reply #5 - Apr 8th, 2019 at 8:56pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 5th, 2019 at 7:36pm:
A fortnight ago I emailed all 76 sitting senators about this issue.



It can take up to two months to get replies from sitting politicians. Perhaps you should have emailed them two months ago or more

You won't get many more replies now before the election, most are likely to wait till after to reply, they'll have their two seats and they'll just reply saying: "Sorry, it's all done and there's nothing we can do about it now"

There's one hope though, parliament is not sitting at the moment so possibly they'll reply before the election, maybe
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Re: Electoral fraud gets bipartisan support in Senate
Reply #6 - Apr 9th, 2019 at 5:40pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Apr 8th, 2019 at 7:38pm:
John Smith wrote on Apr 5th, 2019 at 7:39pm:
did you just copy this straight from a similar thread you started during the last election campaign (or was it the one before that?)?


Does it matter it is a disgraceful corrupt abuse that needs to be fixed.


It matters enough that I asked. Wink
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Re: Electoral fraud gets bipartisan support in Senate
Reply #7 - Apr 11th, 2019 at 7:09am
 
John Smith wrote on Apr 8th, 2019 at 7:18pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 8th, 2019 at 6:58pm:
Do you think it is an important issue?


no


So whether I copied this from another thread does matter, but major parties undermining the constitution and stealing senate seats does not matter?

Is it just because you support one of the parties that committed electoral fraud?
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Re: Electoral fraud gets bipartisan support in Senate
Reply #8 - Apr 11th, 2019 at 5:07pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 11th, 2019 at 7:09am:
John Smith wrote on Apr 8th, 2019 at 7:18pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 8th, 2019 at 6:58pm:
Do you think it is an important issue?


no


So whether I copied this from another thread does matter, but major parties undermining the constitution and stealing senate seats does not matter?

Is it just because you support one of the parties that committed electoral fraud?



what part of the constitution deals with this specifically?
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Re: Electoral fraud gets bipartisan support in Senate
Reply #9 - Apr 11th, 2019 at 6:02pm
 
well when the bickering stops.....

can you explain what WE THE VOTERS are meant to do about this???....we neither make the rules nor can we change them....

does whinging do us any good?...

not that I know of..
so yes you have brought this up in the past fd.....

you seem happy enough with preference voting   and thats how most of the wannabees get in in the first place...


so why is this important?... will it stop corruption... Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes.. will it stops behind closed door deals?.... Roll Eyes...or will it give another piece of deadwood a well paid job????
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Re: Electoral fraud gets bipartisan support in Senate
Reply #10 - Apr 11th, 2019 at 6:47pm
 
John Smith wrote on Apr 11th, 2019 at 5:07pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 11th, 2019 at 7:09am:
John Smith wrote on Apr 8th, 2019 at 7:18pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 8th, 2019 at 6:58pm:
Do you think it is an important issue?


no


So whether I copied this from another thread does matter, but major parties undermining the constitution and stealing senate seats does not matter?

Is it just because you support one of the parties that committed electoral fraud?



what part of the constitution deals with this specifically?


It probably starts with this ... and note 6 might have something to say as well

COMMONWEALTH OF AUSTRALIA CONSTITUTION ACT - SECT 9 Method of election of senators [see Note 6]

                   The Parliament of the Commonwealth may make laws prescribing the method of choosing senators, but so that the method shall be uniform for all the States. Subject to any such law, the Parliament of each State may make laws prescribing the method of choosing the senators for that State.

Times and places [ see Note 6]

                   The Parliament of a State may make laws for determining the times and places of elections of senators for the State.
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Re: Electoral fraud gets bipartisan support in Senate
Reply #11 - Apr 11th, 2019 at 7:15pm
 
Bias_2012 wrote on Apr 11th, 2019 at 6:47pm:
It probably starts with this ... and note 6 might have something to say as well

COMMONWEALTH OF AUSTRALIA CONSTITUTION ACT - SECT 9 Method of election of senators [see Note 6]

                   The Parliament of the Commonwealth may make laws prescribing the method of choosing senators, but so that the method shall be uniform for all the States. Subject to any such law, the Parliament of each State may make laws prescribing the method of choosing the senators for that State.

Times and places [ see Note 6]

                   The Parliament of a State may make laws for determining the times and places of elections of senators for the State.

You're looking at the wrong section of the Constitution. The pertinent section is this one which I quote in part:

Quote:
13. Rotation of senators

As soon as may be after the Senate first meets, and after each first meeting of the Senate following a dissolution thereof, the Senate shall divide the senators chosen for each State into two classes, as nearly equal in number as practicable; and the places of the senators of the first class shall become vacant at the expiration of three years, and the places of those of the second class at the expiration of six years, from the beginning of their term of service; and afterwards the places of senators shall become vacant at the expiration of six years from the beginning of their term of service.

Two more paragraphs omitted


The highlighted text is important. The Senate has the constitutional right to choose how to divide its senators into classes after a double dissolution. The Constitution does not specify any particular method.

While it may appear that Hinch (Vic) and the Greens (NSW) are disadvantaged here, whether this achieves the major parties' goals or backfires will only be seen in hindsight.

In Victoria, it is likely that Hinch will be returned at the expense of the Coalition. It depends on whether Hinch outpolls the third Coalition senator, which is likely.

In NSW, it remains to be seen whether the third ALP candidate outpolls the Greens and that isn't clear. It is also possible that neither or both will be returned but I consider that less likely.

The real story will unfold in three years. Will the Coalition and Labor return all three Senators in the respective states? It's possible that they won't.

The effect will be as FD claims - Labor and Liberal will both have an extra Senator for the next three years due to the Senate's disregard for the recount method.
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Re: Electoral fraud gets bipartisan support in Senate
Reply #12 - Apr 11th, 2019 at 7:33pm
 
Bias_2012 wrote on Apr 11th, 2019 at 6:47pm:
The Parliament of the Commonwealth may make laws prescribing the method of choosing senators,


yeah, so the parliament makes laws prescribing the method of choosing senators .... isn't that exactly what they've done?

Fd's problem is that he doesn't think parliament should choose. Roll Eyes
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Re: Electoral fraud gets bipartisan support in Senate
Reply #13 - Apr 11th, 2019 at 8:55pm
 
It all seems like a pretty sloppy arrangement to me.

If the major parties can give themselves extra Senate seats, can minor parties do the same?
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Re: Electoral fraud gets bipartisan support in Senate
Reply #14 - Apr 12th, 2019 at 6:56pm
 
Bias_2012 wrote on Apr 11th, 2019 at 8:55pm:
It all seems like a pretty sloppy arrangement to me.

If the major parties can give themselves extra Senate seats, can minor parties do the same?


Yes, but they have to control the Senate. The fraud gives extra seats to whatever coalition can get the majority of senate seats and give themselves yet more senate seats. I actually thought it was strange for Labor and the Coalition to team up on this.

In the previous double dissolution election, Labor and the Democrats joined forces to give themselves one extra senate seat each.

Quote:
can you explain what WE THE VOTERS are meant to do about this???....we neither make the rules nor can we change them....


From the article:

  • Letting people know about the problem.
  • Contacting Senators to let them know you expect them to put an end to this ongoing constitutional crisis.
  • Punishing the major parties in the Senate in 2019, to reduce their incentive to commit further fraud.
  • Writing to the journalists involved and letting them know you are dissatisfied with their incompetence in failing to hold the major parties publicly accountable for breaking their promises and voting to change the election outcome.


Quote:
does whinging do us any good?...
not that I know of..


That's how democracy works cods.

Quote:
so why is this important?


It changes the outcome of the election.

John Smith wrote on Apr 11th, 2019 at 7:33pm:
Bias_2012 wrote on Apr 11th, 2019 at 6:47pm:
The Parliament of the Commonwealth may make laws prescribing the method of choosing senators,


yeah, so the parliament makes laws prescribing the method of choosing senators .... isn't that exactly what they've done?

Fd's problem is that he doesn't think parliament should choose. Roll Eyes


No on both counts. The constitution actually prohibits parliament from making laws prescribing the method of choosing senators.
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