Australian Politics Forum - Grattan Institute on population

Grappler Racist Filth

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Re: Grattan Institute on population
Reply #60 - Mar 10^th, 2018 at 5:08am

All Sydney needs now will be the aircraft just missing the roofs on final approach and the laundry on the balconies... few running open sewers out the back and everyone's feeling at home. Vertical slums of the future, whole floors turned over to the drugs trades, security doors on every flat, mesh on the verandahs to control suicides, and major disasters in the offing with fires and earthquakes.

I wonder if the time will come when Robert Heinlein's 'Star Troopers' concept, that all newcomers must do either military or civil service to gain citizenship, will come into play.

I recall that a lady doctor in Cooma (not Coma, but close) was of Polish heritage and her parents worked the Snowies Scheme (my uncle was a copper on that scheme, too, way back - those coppers who served there hold a regular reunion)... seems they turned out to be good citizens (not the coppers, the New Australians), albeit untinted and with a work ethic.....

Plenty on here lately have been talking about major infrastructure projects similar to the Snowies Scheme, with Setanta's back yard creek diverted inland to feed the ravening cotton farms destroying the Darling etc... put in your time, earn your way, prove your mettle, and you can become a Citizen. Soak up unemployment, learn a trade, learn how to use machinery*, put dole money to good use by replacing it with wages earned and thus tax paid...

The western ranges of the GDR are excellent and would be far more useful as productive crop land with more water - and without the salinity problems of the Murray, which being low down is more vulnerable.

Where's Tony, the Infrastructure PM, when you need him? Stomping up a storm in the Northern Beaches again?

*Even those who fail the citizenship test will be able to return home with a marketable skill...

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« Last Edit: Mar 10^th, 2018 at 5:20am by Grappler Racist Filth »

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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RightSaidFred

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Re: Grattan Institute on population
Reply #61 - Mar 10^th, 2018 at 5:50am

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Mar 10^th, 2018 at 5:08am:

All Sydney needs now will be the aircraft just missing the roofs on final approach and the laundry on the balconies... few running open sewers out the back and everyone's feeling at home. Vertical slums of the future, whole floors turned over to the drugs trades, security doors on every flat, mesh on the verandahs to control suicides, and major disasters in the offing with fires and earthquakes.

I wonder if the time will come when Robert Heinlein's 'Star Troopers' concept, that all newcomers must do either military or civil service to gain citizenship, will come into play.

I recall that a lady doctor in Cooma (not Coma, but close) was of Polish heritage and her parents worked the Snowies Scheme (my uncle was a copper on that scheme, too, way back - those coppers who served there hold a regular reunion)... seems they turned out to be good citizens (not the coppers, the New Australians), albeit untinted and with a work ethic.....

Plenty on here lately have been talking about major infrastructure projects similar to the Snowies Scheme, with Setanta's back yard creek diverted inland to feed the ravening cotton farms destroying the Darling etc... put in your time, earn your way, prove your mettle, and you can become a Citizen. Soak up unemployment, learn a trade, learn how to use machinery*, put dole money to good use by replacing it with wages earned and thus tax paid...

The western ranges of the GDR are excellent and would be far more useful as productive crop land with more water - and without the salinity problems of the Murray, which being low down is more vulnerable.

Where's Tony, the Infrastructure PM, when you need him? Stomping up a storm in the Northern Beaches again?

*Even those who fail the citizenship test will be able to return home with a marketable skill...

Not sure which bit addresses the topic, it appears these new arrivals don't want to stomp around in the mud smelling cow $hit ...... the want nice jobs in the city sipping Lattes.

The other issue is our Agro business is one of the most efficient in the world i.e. not much of a population absorber .... look at the other thread on Cairns it appears even in the regions we have the work shy crowd afraid of a little mud.

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freediver

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Re: Grattan Institute on population
Reply #62 - Mar 10^th, 2018 at 7:27am

RightSaidFred wrote on Mar 10^th, 2018 at 5:00am:

freediver wrote on Mar 9^th, 2018 at 11:04pm:

RightSaidFred wrote on Mar 9^th, 2018 at 8:18am:

freediver wrote on Mar 8^th, 2018 at 7:43am:

RightSaidFred wrote on Mar 8^th, 2018 at 6:35am:

freediver wrote on Mar 7^th, 2018 at 8:33pm:

Quote:

Not sure what your point is Syd/Melb/Bris are suffering under pressure sure there are other cities do you want them to suffer as well or we build cities elsewhere ?

I don't think we should go down the communist route of building new cities from scratch, out of some sense of sympathy, if that's what you mean. Let the ones that work grow naturally, if people want to move to them.

Quote:

I think we just need to be smarter if we want a bigger younger Australia or we just let the insanity prevail which seems to be your view.

If you want to live in the outer burbs of our most crowded, overpriced city, I am not going to try to stop you, even if you are insane. Some people like that sort of thing. But it is generous of you to decline to move to a smaller town or city and wait instead for the government to build you a brand new one. You join the huddled masses so we get a little bit more room to grow another fruit tree. Don't hold your breath, BTW.

So in other words you have nothing to offer ?

FYI people need jobs to live mostly and yes the government can try to develop new areas like they have with NW Sydney ..... not a communist dogma at all ...... they can just expand on this idea to encourage businesses to decentralise ....... this has been tried at all levels with limited success but at some point this will be a necessity.

You are just walking away from the issue saying its someone else's problem good for you !

I'm not saying it is someone else's problem. I'm saying it is not a problem. People are choosing to live where they want. Businesses are choosing for themselves how much to centralise. It's all good.

One of the biggest causes of high housing prices is people in the inner suburbs using the political process to block high rise developments. Those NW Sydney developments you mention are a clumsy response to that problem. So there is my solution - anyone suburb within 5km of the CBD is fair game for high rises.

That is a big piece of BS in Sydney the skyline is full of cranes in all major centres never seen so much building activity going on yet the experts are still saying its not quite keeping up. If there has been an issue most of it occurred under 17 years of hard Labor but even then the ALP were in the developers hip pocket.

Suggest you visit Sydney you are way off the mark with your comments, that is if you want credibility which you seriously lack.

At some point they need to put the gowing population outside the major capitals the problem will only get worse .

What is the correct number of cranes on the skyline RSF?

No idea talk to the population experts its a thumb in the wind measure at best about the amount of development going on.
The other one I am hearing big concrete orders right now can take 6-8 weeks to fill, the signs look like we are running at max. There is a critical shortage of electricians and other trades...... freedriver thinks the issue is red tape

Its either productivity or this is as fast as we can go. It could be we are trying to make a fat kid run a marathon.

Can you explain your trick for reading a skyline of cranes to know that I was wrong? Is it like reading tea leaves?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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UnSubRocky

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Re: Grattan Institute on population
Reply #63 - Mar 10^th, 2018 at 4:12pm

RightSaidFred wrote on Mar 10^th, 2018 at 5:00am:

Its either productivity or this is as fast as we can go. It could be we are trying to make a fat kid run a marathon.

I think it is the attitude problem we have as Australians. We have the sprinters. We have the 4-minute milers. We have the marathoners. But the problem is we have too many people happy to get participation ribbons, rather than going for gold, silver, or bronze. The "dig stuff up and send it to China" attitude will work well for us to stop us from starving for a while. But then, we will have to change our tactics soon, when China starts buying from the more competitive.

We Australians like to big note our own importance to the world. Yet we are only 25 million strong. That is barely a blip on the world radar. Unless we start getting those people to work smarter, instead of just harder. Unless we can get people to stop being so complacent, we could end up in a lot of trouble when the situation changes, and not to our benefit. Innovation. The embracing of new technology. Send our own satellites into orbit. Whatever it is, we need to find ways of getting the world to invest in Australia, so that we can benefit in the long term.

It is not the fat kid we need to be worried about running. We should be concerned about the lazy runners.

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At this stage...

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Lord Herbert Gold Member Offline Posts: 34441 Gender:	Re: Grattan Institute on population Reply #64 - Mar 10^th, 2018 at 4:45pm Within 50 years Australia will be a visibly Asian country with a predominance of Indians and Chinese.
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RightSaidFred

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Re: Grattan Institute on population
Reply #65 - Mar 10^th, 2018 at 5:43pm

freediver wrote on Mar 10^th, 2018 at 7:27am:

RightSaidFred wrote on Mar 10^th, 2018 at 5:00am:

freediver wrote on Mar 9^th, 2018 at 11:04pm:

RightSaidFred wrote on Mar 9^th, 2018 at 8:18am:

freediver wrote on Mar 8^th, 2018 at 7:43am:

RightSaidFred wrote on Mar 8^th, 2018 at 6:35am:

freediver wrote on Mar 7^th, 2018 at 8:33pm:

Quote:

Not sure what your point is Syd/Melb/Bris are suffering under pressure sure there are other cities do you want them to suffer as well or we build cities elsewhere ?

I don't think we should go down the communist route of building new cities from scratch, out of some sense of sympathy, if that's what you mean. Let the ones that work grow naturally, if people want to move to them.

Quote:

I think we just need to be smarter if we want a bigger younger Australia or we just let the insanity prevail which seems to be your view.

If you want to live in the outer burbs of our most crowded, overpriced city, I am not going to try to stop you, even if you are insane. Some people like that sort of thing. But it is generous of you to decline to move to a smaller town or city and wait instead for the government to build you a brand new one. You join the huddled masses so we get a little bit more room to grow another fruit tree. Don't hold your breath, BTW.

So in other words you have nothing to offer ?

FYI people need jobs to live mostly and yes the government can try to develop new areas like they have with NW Sydney ..... not a communist dogma at all ...... they can just expand on this idea to encourage businesses to decentralise ....... this has been tried at all levels with limited success but at some point this will be a necessity.

You are just walking away from the issue saying its someone else's problem good for you !

I'm not saying it is someone else's problem. I'm saying it is not a problem. People are choosing to live where they want. Businesses are choosing for themselves how much to centralise. It's all good.

One of the biggest causes of high housing prices is people in the inner suburbs using the political process to block high rise developments. Those NW Sydney developments you mention are a clumsy response to that problem. So there is my solution - anyone suburb within 5km of the CBD is fair game for high rises.

That is a big piece of BS in Sydney the skyline is full of cranes in all major centres never seen so much building activity going on yet the experts are still saying its not quite keeping up. If there has been an issue most of it occurred under 17 years of hard Labor but even then the ALP were in the developers hip pocket.

Suggest you visit Sydney you are way off the mark with your comments, that is if you want credibility which you seriously lack.

At some point they need to put the gowing population outside the major capitals the problem will only get worse .

What is the correct number of cranes on the skyline RSF?

No idea talk to the population experts its a thumb in the wind measure at best about the amount of development going on.
The other one I am hearing big concrete orders right now can take 6-8 weeks to fill, the signs look like we are running at max. There is a critical shortage of electricians and other trades...... freedriver thinks the issue is red tape

Its either productivity or this is as fast as we can go. It could be we are trying to make a fat kid run a marathon.

Can you explain your trick for reading a skyline of cranes to know that I was wrong? Is it like reading tea leaves?

You are more or less always wrong I can not help you with that.

If you wish to carry on like a twit the crane count is actually used by many but real data something your ignorant about is collected by researchers who come up with real answer instead of childish retorts so put your dummy back in and try using your brain

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RightSaidFred

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Re: Grattan Institute on population
Reply #66 - Mar 10^th, 2018 at 5:46pm

Lord Herbert wrote on Mar 10^th, 2018 at 4:45pm:

Within 50 years Australia will be a visibly Asian country with a predominance of Indians and Chinese.

Again with the racism.
FYI many of the Chinese here are 5-6 generation, as are some of the Afghan's so what kind of White Australia policy do you want ?
Do you want the police (many of who are Chinese ancestry) to round them all up and deport them ?

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RightSaidFred

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Re: Grattan Institute on population
Reply #67 - Mar 10^th, 2018 at 5:53pm

UnSubRocky wrote on Mar 10^th, 2018 at 4:12pm:

RightSaidFred wrote on Mar 10^th, 2018 at 5:00am:

Its either productivity or this is as fast as we can go. It could be we are trying to make a fat kid run a marathon.

I think it is the attitude problem we have as Australians. We have the sprinters. We have the 4-minute milers. We have the marathoners. But the problem is we have too many people happy to get participation ribbons, rather than going for gold, silver, or bronze. The "dig stuff up and send it to China" attitude will work well for us to stop us from starving for a while. But then, we will have to change our tactics soon, when China starts buying from the more competitive.

We Australians like to big note our own importance to the world. Yet we are only 25 million strong. That is barely a blip on the world radar. Unless we start getting those people to work smarter, instead of just harder. Unless we can get people to stop being so complacent, we could end up in a lot of trouble when the situation changes, and not to our benefit. Innovation. The embracing of new technology. Send our own satellites into orbit. Whatever it is, we need to find ways of getting the world to invest in Australia, so that we can benefit in the long term.

It is not the fat kid we need to be worried about running. We should be concerned about the lazy runners.

For someone young coming from a working class background you show a lot of insight.

My parents were WWII immigrants coming from Europe ..... they were tougher stock then the locals and yes my father worked on the Snowy. He set up his own building company that numbered about 80 employees at one stage, I saw all sorts of cultures working part time for my father's company.... Italians, Greeks, Fins, Polish, Estonians, Serbians etc ..... they all worked harder then the pommies / Skips !

I try not to look at building sights as when I do I think I am watching it in slow motion. The pace I see would not be tolerated by my father back then.

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freediver

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Re: Grattan Institute on population
Reply #68 - Mar 10^th, 2018 at 8:03pm

RightSaidFred wrote on Mar 10^th, 2018 at 5:43pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 10^th, 2018 at 7:27am:

RightSaidFred wrote on Mar 10^th, 2018 at 5:00am:

freediver wrote on Mar 9^th, 2018 at 11:04pm:

RightSaidFred wrote on Mar 9^th, 2018 at 8:18am:

freediver wrote on Mar 8^th, 2018 at 7:43am:

RightSaidFred wrote on Mar 8^th, 2018 at 6:35am:

freediver wrote on Mar 7^th, 2018 at 8:33pm:

Quote:

Not sure what your point is Syd/Melb/Bris are suffering under pressure sure there are other cities do you want them to suffer as well or we build cities elsewhere ?

I don't think we should go down the communist route of building new cities from scratch, out of some sense of sympathy, if that's what you mean. Let the ones that work grow naturally, if people want to move to them.

Quote:

I think we just need to be smarter if we want a bigger younger Australia or we just let the insanity prevail which seems to be your view.

If you want to live in the outer burbs of our most crowded, overpriced city, I am not going to try to stop you, even if you are insane. Some people like that sort of thing. But it is generous of you to decline to move to a smaller town or city and wait instead for the government to build you a brand new one. You join the huddled masses so we get a little bit more room to grow another fruit tree. Don't hold your breath, BTW.

So in other words you have nothing to offer ?

FYI people need jobs to live mostly and yes the government can try to develop new areas like they have with NW Sydney ..... not a communist dogma at all ...... they can just expand on this idea to encourage businesses to decentralise ....... this has been tried at all levels with limited success but at some point this will be a necessity.

You are just walking away from the issue saying its someone else's problem good for you !

I'm not saying it is someone else's problem. I'm saying it is not a problem. People are choosing to live where they want. Businesses are choosing for themselves how much to centralise. It's all good.

One of the biggest causes of high housing prices is people in the inner suburbs using the political process to block high rise developments. Those NW Sydney developments you mention are a clumsy response to that problem. So there is my solution - anyone suburb within 5km of the CBD is fair game for high rises.

That is a big piece of BS in Sydney the skyline is full of cranes in all major centres never seen so much building activity going on yet the experts are still saying its not quite keeping up. If there has been an issue most of it occurred under 17 years of hard Labor but even then the ALP were in the developers hip pocket.

Suggest you visit Sydney you are way off the mark with your comments, that is if you want credibility which you seriously lack.

At some point they need to put the gowing population outside the major capitals the problem will only get worse .

What is the correct number of cranes on the skyline RSF?

No idea talk to the population experts its a thumb in the wind measure at best about the amount of development going on.
The other one I am hearing big concrete orders right now can take 6-8 weeks to fill, the signs look like we are running at max. There is a critical shortage of electricians and other trades...... freedriver thinks the issue is red tape

Its either productivity or this is as fast as we can go. It could be we are trying to make a fat kid run a marathon.

Can you explain your trick for reading a skyline of cranes to know that I was wrong? Is it like reading tea leaves?

You are more or less always wrong I can not help you with that.

If you wish to carry on like a twit the crane count is actually used by many but real data something your ignorant about is collected by researchers who come up with real answer instead of childish retorts so put your dummy back in and try using your brain

Tea leaves are also used by many RSF. Just for a different purpose. Can you explain how you use them?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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The_Barnacle

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Re: Grattan Institute on population
Reply #69 - Mar 11^th, 2018 at 9:39am

Gordon wrote on Mar 6^th, 2018 at 8:05pm:

Piss off we're full.

This sort of comment from the hysterical right wing is why the conversation about population has become so toxic. They are responsible for it.

Infrastructure simply isn't keeping up with the growing population and the land we are losing to the urban sprawl is prime agricultural land. However we arn't going to see a reduction in population growth because those in power have a vested interest.

Politicians support population growth because it artificially raises GDP statistics.

Big Business supports population growth because it means more customers.

And since it's Big Business which runs the country anyway, we arn't going to have any change in policy any time soon.

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The Right Wing only believe in free speech when they agree with what is being said.

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UnSubRocky Gold Member Offline Crocodile Hunter: Origins Posts: 25499 Rockhampton Gender:	Re: Grattan Institute on population Reply #70 - Mar 11^th, 2018 at 12:24pm Lord Herbert wrote on Mar 10^th, 2018 at 4:45pm: Within 50 years Australia will be a visibly Asian country with a predominance of Indians and Chinese. By 2068, I shall probably be dead. Being 89 at the time. But I would be sure I could handle a society where 40% of Australians are non-white.
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UnSubRocky

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Re: Grattan Institute on population
Reply #71 - Mar 11^th, 2018 at 12:27pm

RightSaidFred wrote on Mar 10^th, 2018 at 5:53pm:

For someone young coming from a working class background you show a lot of insight.

Well... thanks. But at 39 years of age, I would hardly be considered the type of person who is young. My 65-year-old uncle pointed the "nearly 40" fact, the other year. And my socioeconomic background should be of no relevance to how smart I become. Realistically, by now, I should be a much better orator and writer of history, culture, and politics than I have been in the last 5 years.

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Lord Herbert

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Re: Grattan Institute on population
Reply #72 - Mar 11^th, 2018 at 12:53pm

The_Barnacle wrote on Mar 11^th, 2018 at 9:39am:

Gordon wrote on Mar 6^th, 2018 at 8:05pm:

Piss off we're full.

This sort of comment from the hysterical right wing is why the conversation about population has become so toxic. They are responsible for it.

Infrastructure simply isn't keeping up with the growing population and the land we are losing to the urban sprawl is prime agricultural land. However we arn't going to see a reduction in population growth because those in power have a vested interest.

Politicians support population growth because it artificially raises GDP statistics.

Big Business supports population growth because it means more customers.

And since it's Big Business which runs the country anyway, we arn't going to have any change in policy any time soon.

Good post. You've got your finger on the pulse.

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Gordon

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Re: Grattan Institute on population
Reply #73 - Mar 11^th, 2018 at 1:16pm

The_Barnacle wrote on Mar 11^th, 2018 at 9:39am:

Gordon wrote on Mar 6^th, 2018 at 8:05pm:

Piss off we're full.

This sort of comment from the hysterical right wing is why the conversation about population has become so toxic. They are responsible for it.

Infrastructure simply isn't keeping up with the growing population and the land we are losing to the urban sprawl is prime agricultural land. However we arn't going to see a reduction in population growth because those in power have a vested interest.

Politicians support population growth because it artificially raises GDP statistics.

Big Business supports population growth because it means more customers.

And since it's Big Business which runs the country anyway, we arn't going to have any change in policy any time soon.

Firstly, I'm not right wing and my comment is based in the actual fact that Sydney is busting at the seams.

Any time there is a rational attempt of discussion based on infrastructure, sustainability and quality of life on ABC radio about population, lefty wankstains text in with stuff like, ohh ah xenophobes, ohh ahh racists.

And yes I agree that all sides of politics are pro-immigration for different reasons.

Liberal property developers love it.
Labor unionist love the jobs created
Greens want more brown people

Meanwhile the livability of our cities is going down the shitter, but oh it's nice compare to Delhi and Beijing

4 Corners is on population on Monday. Watch it.

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/big-australia:-are-we-ready/9522444

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Lord Herbert

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Re: Grattan Institute on population
Reply #74 - Mar 11^th, 2018 at 8:32pm

Gordon wrote on Mar 11^th, 2018 at 1:16pm:

The_Barnacle wrote on Mar 11^th, 2018 at 9:39am:

Gordon wrote on Mar 6^th, 2018 at 8:05pm:

Piss off we're full.

This sort of comment from the hysterical right wing is why the conversation about population has become so toxic. They are responsible for it.

Infrastructure simply isn't keeping up with the growing population and the land we are losing to the urban sprawl is prime agricultural land. However we arn't going to see a reduction in population growth because those in power have a vested interest.

Politicians support population growth because it artificially raises GDP statistics.

Big Business supports population growth because it means more customers.

And since it's Big Business which runs the country anyway, we arn't going to have any change in policy any time soon.

Firstly, I'm not right wing and my comment is based in the actual fact that Sydney is busting at the seams.

Any time there is a rational attempt of discussion based on infrastructure, sustainability and quality of life on ABC radio about population, lefty wankstains text in with stuff like, ohh ah xenophobes, ohh ahh racists.

And yes I agree that all sides of politics are pro-immigration for different reasons.

Liberal property developers love it.
Labor unionist love the jobs created
Greens want more brown people

Meanwhile the livability of our cities is going down the shitter, but oh it's nice compare to Delhi and Beijing

4 Corners is on population on Monday. Watch it.

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/big-australia:-are-we-ready/9522444

Good rebuttal, Gordon.

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