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Freedom of Speech for Unpopular People (Read 31452 times)
Aussie
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Re: Freedom of Speech for Unpopular People
Reply #120 - Aug 6th, 2017 at 12:29pm
 
No-one needs a Lawyer to have it explained.  A five year old kid will do.  Ask one, Effendi, and you will be enlightened, well, as far as is possible in your case.
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buzzanddidj
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Re: Freedom of Speech for Unpopular People
Reply #121 - Aug 6th, 2017 at 3:07pm
 
freediver wrote on Jul 30th, 2017 at 6:06pm:


She is turning into a Kim Kardashian,




She's growing an elephant sized ARSE ?

SURELY, no woman would do this DELIBERATELY ?


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'I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.
Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.'


- Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
 
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Re: Freedom of Speech for Unpopular People
Reply #122 - Aug 7th, 2017 at 9:21am
 
Aussie wrote on Aug 6th, 2017 at 12:29pm:
No-one needs a Lawyer to have it explained.  A five year old kid will do.  Ask one, Effendi, and you will be enlightened, well, as far as is possible in your case.



So five year olds' study statute law surrounding the restrictions applied to expressing an opinion at  kindy or do they wait until Grade 1?


Are they any good at interpreting the case law surrounding self defence, because that can get tricky if you have inadvertently killed your assailant? That seems to be an endless argument here as well.






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Re: Freedom of Speech for Unpopular People
Reply #123 - Aug 7th, 2017 at 9:24am
 
freediver wrote on Aug 3rd, 2017 at 11:54pm:
So don't fix it because it aint broke, except it is actually broken, but that's OK because it is a popular flaw? Are you having trouble finding a principle here Gandalf?


Its not broken, and that is evidenced by the fact that I don't think anyone has ever had their freedoms curtailed by 18c - beyond what would have been curtailed in any defamation case. Its probably got to do with the huge disclaimer in 18d. I'd even go so far as to say its working exactly as intended.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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polite_gandalf
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Re: Freedom of Speech for Unpopular People
Reply #124 - Aug 7th, 2017 at 9:53am
 
freediver wrote on Aug 5th, 2017 at 12:29pm:
You are missing the point. Whether you are free to do something does not depend on a piece of paper saying you are. It depends on your willingness to defend that freedom.


Good point. Just like a "piece of paper", lets call it "18c" that says people aren't allowed to offend people based on their race means nothing when people routinely go around offending others on the base of their race - and never get punished for it.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Freedom of Speech for Unpopular People
Reply #125 - Aug 7th, 2017 at 10:21am
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 7th, 2017 at 9:24am:
freediver wrote on Aug 3rd, 2017 at 11:54pm:
So don't fix it because it aint broke, except it is actually broken, but that's OK because it is a popular flaw? Are you having trouble finding a principle here Gandalf?


Its not broken, and that is evidenced by the fact that I don't think anyone has ever had their freedoms curtailed by 18c - beyond what would have been curtailed in any defamation case. Its probably got to do with the huge disclaimer in 18d. I'd even go so far as to say its working exactly as intended.




So 18C is meant to destroy the lives of people as they are dragged through the courts on trumped up accusations that were left to fester instead of being dealt with appropriately?


That alone meant it was a fkked up law used by a professional victim to screw some poor bastards out of a heap of cash.




In a decision that was seen as a litmus test for the controversial section 18C of the Racial Discrimination Act 1975 (Cth) (RDA), the Federal Circuit Court has dismissed Cindy Prior’s case against Queensland University of Technology students Alex Wood, Calum Thwaites and Jackson Powell. Prior had alleged that these students breached section 18C. Judge Michael Jarrett concluded that Prior’s claim against them had no reasonable prospect of success.

What was the case about?

On May 28, 2013, Wood and two other students were using a QUT computer lab when Prior asked them whether they were indigenous. They replied they weren’t. Prior then asked them to leave.

Later that day, on the “QUT Stalkerspace” Facebook page, Wood posted:

Just got kicked out of the unsigned Indigenous computer room. QUT stopping segregation with segregation…?
Many people commented. Powell posted:

I wonder where the white supremacist computer lab is….
Prior alleged that Thwaites posted “ITT black people”. (A claim that Thwaites has always categorically denied.)

Prior complained to QUT about these and other comments, which were promptly removed. However, Prior was ultimately unhappy with QUT’s handling of the matter and lodged a complaint in the Australian Human Rights Commission (AHRC). The AHRC conciliated Prior’s complaint. However, it did not contact the students directly about the complaint or the conciliation conference. Instead, it left this task to QUT. Powell did not know about Prior’s complaint until after the conciliation conference.

Conciliation failed, and Prior commenced proceedings in the Federal Circuit Court against QUT, certain QUT employees, and a number of QUT students including Wood, Thwaites and Powell. Prior’s claim was for A$247,570.52. Prior alleged that the students had breached 18C. She also alleged that QUT and its employees had breached section 9 of the RDA.


http://theconversation.com/qut-discrimination-case-exposes-human-rights-commissi...
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Re: Freedom of Speech for Unpopular People
Reply #126 - Aug 7th, 2017 at 10:22am
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 7th, 2017 at 9:53am:
freediver wrote on Aug 5th, 2017 at 12:29pm:
You are missing the point. Whether you are free to do something does not depend on a piece of paper saying you are. It depends on your willingness to defend that freedom.


Good point. Just like a "piece of paper", lets call it "18c" that says people aren't allowed to offend people based on their race means nothing when people routinely go around offending others on the base of their race - and never get punished for it.





Yeah very true, I've been called a "white cvvnt" many times, but what are ya gonna do?


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Re: Freedom of Speech for Unpopular People
Reply #127 - Aug 7th, 2017 at 10:44am
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 7th, 2017 at 9:24am:
freediver wrote on Aug 3rd, 2017 at 11:54pm:
So don't fix it because it aint broke, except it is actually broken, but that's OK because it is a popular flaw? Are you having trouble finding a principle here Gandalf?


Its not broken, and that is evidenced by the fact that I don't think anyone has ever had their freedoms curtailed by 18c - beyond what would have been curtailed in any defamation case. Its probably got to do with the huge disclaimer in 18d. I'd even go so far as to say its working exactly as intended.



Toben was put in jail for denying the holocaust. You are back to assuming this is only about Andrew Bolt. But even there your logic falls over. The fact that he could have been charged under other legislation is not evidence that this legislation is appropriate. It is only evidence that it is, in this case, redundant.

Quote:
Good point. Just like a "piece of paper", lets call it "18c" that says people aren't allowed to offend people based on their race means nothing when people routinely go around offending others on the base of their race - and never get punished for it.


People speed all the time Gandalf. And they get away with it. This is not evidence that for all practical purposes we are free to drive as fast as we want despite the legislation.

Basically, your argument boils down to insisting that our rights and freedoms are not being curtailed if they only chip away a little at a time.

Wasn't it you who originally brought this to everyone's attention? Why are you now defending it? Did you only criticise it in the past because it was a Jew who was doing the suing? Have you changed your mind because you now see it as a step towards protecting Islam from criticism?
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Re: Freedom of Speech for Unpopular People
Reply #128 - Aug 7th, 2017 at 3:28pm
 
freediver wrote on Aug 7th, 2017 at 10:44am:
People speed all the time Gandalf. And they get away with it. This is not evidence that for all practical purposes we are free to drive as fast as we want despite the legislation.


It was your argument FD - that a "piece of paper" does not determine our right to free speech - only our willingness to defend it. Are you now backpeddling on that and saying, actually a piece of paper does determine our free speech?

Actually, your original statement is correct, and it is the very reason why crying over that "piece of paper" called 18c as some threat to our free speech is unwarranted. Virtually no one properly understands our vilification laws, and fewer people care. But what Australians universally do understand is that they are not prohibited from merely offending people on the basis of race. As I said, no one has been silenced under 18c - beyond what any regular defamation case would have done, and yes that probably includes Toben. Quite simply, 18c couldn't be less relevant to our actual freedoms.

freediver wrote on Aug 7th, 2017 at 10:44am:
Wasn't it you who originally brought this to everyone's attention? Why are you now defending it? Did you only criticise it in the past because it was a Jew who was doing the suing? Have you changed your mind because you now see it as a step towards protecting Islam from criticism?


Actually I first brought it up to demonstrate how far Australian societal norms and expectations vis free speech are detached from your extreme views. Its when you were attempting to paint me as some un-Australian freedom hater. (ie, your favourite slur "typical muslim"). Whats interesting was your response - mocking the idea that 18c threatens anyone's speech, and especially articulating your scepticism that Toben himself was gaoled for denying the holocaust. Yes I know, irony overload.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Freedom of Speech for Unpopular People
Reply #129 - Aug 7th, 2017 at 5:17pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 7th, 2017 at 3:28pm:
Whats interesting was your response - mocking the idea that 18c threatens anyone's speech, and especially articulating your scepticism that Toben himself was gaoled for denying the holocaust.



noooooo?  Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked


Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.
 
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Re: Freedom of Speech for Unpopular People
Reply #130 - Aug 8th, 2017 at 7:27pm
 
Quote:
It was your argument FD - that a "piece of paper" does not determine our right to free speech - only our willingness to defend it. Are you now backpeddling on that and saying, actually a piece of paper does determine our free speech?


Toben was put in jail Gandalf. Not sure how you managed to confuse that with "a piece of paper".

Quote:
Actually, your original statement is correct, and it is the very reason why crying over that "piece of paper" called 18c as some threat to our free speech is unwarranted. Virtually no one properly understands our vilification laws, and fewer people care. But what Australians universally do understand is that they are not prohibited from merely offending people on the basis of race. As I said, no one has been silenced under 18c - beyond what any regular defamation case would have done, and yes that probably includes Toben. Quite simply, 18c couldn't be less relevant to our actual freedoms.


So Toben's freedom of speech was not limited by putting him in jail for denying the holocaust?
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Re: Freedom of Speech for Unpopular People
Reply #131 - Aug 8th, 2017 at 7:37pm
 
36727 posts.

36727 times no one cared.

36727 that he thought his opinion mattered.

36727 that he was wrong.

36727 times he wasted valuable parts of his life, when he could have been out planting roses.

And why?

Because he confuses freedom of speech with the right to hate.

36727 times!
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Defend Free-speech. Say no to censorship on this forum! Defend the freedoms our soldiers fought for against the Fascist-racist forces of evil!
 
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Re: Freedom of Speech for Unpopular People
Reply #132 - Aug 8th, 2017 at 7:48pm
 
freediver wrote on Aug 8th, 2017 at 7:27pm:
Toben was put in jail Gandalf. Not sure how you managed to confuse that with "a piece of paper".


So you now think 'pieces of paper' are significant in determining our freedoms?

Would you agree that Toben's gaoling had less to do with that 'piece of paper', and more to do with people's unwillingness to stand up for him, and to stand up for the right to holocaust denial in general?
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Freedom of Speech for Unpopular People
Reply #133 - Aug 8th, 2017 at 7:51pm
 
How do you deny a historical fact?

Maybe instead a jail, a lunatic asylum would have been a better option?
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Defend Free-speech. Say no to censorship on this forum! Defend the freedoms our soldiers fought for against the Fascist-racist forces of evil!
 
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Re: Freedom of Speech for Unpopular People
Reply #134 - Aug 8th, 2017 at 7:58pm
 
freediver wrote on Aug 8th, 2017 at 7:27pm:
So Toben's freedom of speech was not limited by putting him in jail for denying the holocaust?


Toben was gaoled for contempt of court. The point I was making was that the underlying legislation that drove that particular court order was not over and beyond what would undoubtedly have happened in any defamation case. Since I believe Toben could have successfully been sued for defaming jewish people (he labelled jews who he considered exaggerated the holocaust as fraudsters and extortionists) - in which case he would have faced the same order to take down his offending material. And if he had refused, then he would have been held in contempt - in which case you could argue with the same logic you are using now that he was having his freedom taken away for holocaust denial.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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