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Ironman Abbott the best to govern (Read 2081 times)
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Re: Ironman Abbott the best to govern
Reply #15 - Sep 6th, 2010 at 9:05am
 
aikmann4 wrote on Sep 5th, 2010 at 11:03pm:
I don't think he is going to win =(


I admit, I am starting to get my hopes up! It is starting to look less likely he will win.
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Re: Ironman Abbott the best to govern
Reply #16 - Sep 6th, 2010 at 9:17am
 
You could possibly build an argument suggesting that the Liberals may be a superior option in some areas however Tony was always a poor option for the nation’s leadership.

The man who was hidden in the 2007 election campaign because he had been unstable and probably the worst performing minister of that poor performing government.

The man on record as having an ultra conservative position way out of step with the community on a huge range of subjects.

The man who openly advised us to not believe what he is saying.

The guy who was overturned on RU485 by everyone left, right and centre.

The fella who cost us millions with his anti abortion advice line which had no impact.

Best to govern not even funny my advice in that circumstance : " be afraid very afraid".
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Re: Ironman Abbott the best to govern
Reply #17 - Sep 6th, 2010 at 9:25am
 
longweekend58 wrote on Sep 5th, 2010 at 11:10pm:
Windsor, for all his bluff and bad attitude knows that supporting labor wil end his political career. and if he supports labor that govt might only last a few months before a new election.



I think you will find that the vast majority of Lib/Nat supporters in his electorate voted for the Nat option. Most of his vote is actually middle to left and for him to support the Liberals would definatly be the end of him politically.

He got 71% of the vote including green preferences I doubt that 10 conservative voters would impact that position greatly.
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Re: Ironman Abbott the best to govern
Reply #18 - Sep 6th, 2010 at 9:31am
 
And Windsor has already announced his desire to retire, so I don't think he'd mind overly much if this is his last term
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Re: Ironman Abbott the best to govern
Reply #19 - Sep 6th, 2010 at 10:19am
 

Here's an extract from Laura Tingle's article: -

http://www.afr.com/p/opinion/liars_and_clunkheads_fail_budget_N34GyIaJiG6fPHVUnZ...

Quote:
Liars and clunkheads fail budget test

PUBLISHED : 03 Sep 2010 12:05:00 | UPDATED: 03 Sep 2010 06:49:06

There are two possible
explanations for how an
opposition presenting itself as
an alternative government could end
up with an $11 billion hole in the
cost of its election commitments.

One is that they are liars, the other
is that they are clunkheads. Actually,
there is a third explanation: they are
liars and clunkheads.

But whatever the combination,
they are not fit to govern.

Going back to the federal election
in 1987, the cost of election promises
has always been hotly disputed.

Labor‘s chance of winning the
2004 election, for example, was
derailed by AMA claims that its
Medicare Gold policy would cost
$2.9 billion more than it said.

But what has occurred in
Canberra this week is in another
sphere altogether.

Treasury and the Department of
Finance, when finally given the
chance to scrutinise the Coalition's
policies, have not just found huge
discrepancies in the costings of
individual policies, but what can
onlybe described as a systematic
exercise in creative accounting.

The picture that emerges from the
econocrats' report is that the
opposition very purposely created a
dodgy set of numbers which were
never expected to withstand any
scrutiny and would require the
intervention of the Australian
Securities and Investments
Commission if it was a company.

The opposition simply hoped it
could bluff its way into office by
refusing to allow the figures to be
scrutinised before polling day...



Habitual 'liars and clunkheads' cannot be trusted to run our nation!

Forget confected contentions over 'legitimacy' - they have demonstrated zero integrity!

Next...
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Re: Ironman Abbott the best to govern
Reply #20 - Sep 6th, 2010 at 10:32am
 

Please delete wrote on Sep 6th, 2010 at 9:31am:
And Windsor has already announced his desire to retire, so I don't think he'd mind overly much if this is his last term


Indeed, he's not a young man - and neither is Katter!

Neither are likely to care too much whether or not they are personally re-elected. However, they both have unfinished business in their elecotrates and the next 3 years will give them the opportunity to fulful their original political goals i.e. to create a lasting legacy...

Oakeshott is younger and has the potential of a much longer political career ahead of him, should he want it - but he is also facing the once-in-a-career opportunity to implement altruisic changes - and he would have 3 whole years to demonstrate to his electorate why he chose to go one way or the other...

Thing is, the rabid rabble that is the Abbott Coalition, have already telegraphed their intention to self-servingly subvert our democratic processes - particularly their agenda force another election...

By contrast, the Gillard Labs have demonstrated both the integrity of Statespersonship and a willingness to negotiate to form a stable consensus Minority Govt...

The shifty Libs are foolishly making it very difficult for the conservative-leaning Independents to go with them - FACT!

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Re: Ironman Abbott the best to govern
Reply #21 - Sep 6th, 2010 at 10:38am
 


...

Quote:
........Now the three rural independents are saying they want a commitment to clean up the way Parliament conducts itself before making their decision. Their focus is on the abuse of question time. This column has raged no fewer than three times this year against the way question time has been debased. And who were the people who prostituted the process? Those of the Rudd-Gillard government.

Since Labor came to power in 2007, question time has blown out by 50 per cent while the time given to answering real questions has shrunk to less than 30 per cent of the time allotted. Arrogant ministers have set new lows in dissembling, diverting and droning.......
............ In the Senate vote in Bob Katter's north Queensland electorate of Kennedy, the Liberal National Party of Queensland crushed the ALP, winning a primary vote of 42.1 per cent to Labor's 26.5 per cent. When the primary votes of the conservative parties (Coalition, the anti-Green Fishing and Lifestyle Party, Family First, One Nation, Australia First and the Christian Democrats) were combined, it came to just under 60 per cent, close to double the combined vote of Labor and the Greens', 32.6 per cent. This is an anti-Labor landslide.

In Tony Windsor's electorate of New England, the Coalition won 44 per cent of the primary Senate vote, massively ahead of Labor's 28.8 per cent. The combined Senate vote of the conservative parties in New England was 55.2 per cent, massively ahead of the 35.9 per cent for Labor and the Greens.

Again, in Rob Oakeshott's seat of Lyne on the NSW north coast, the Coalition won 45.75 per cent of the Senate primary vote to Labor's 30.3 per cent, another anti-Labor landslide. Combined, the conservative parties' Senate vote in Lyne was 53.65 per cent to Labor and the Greens' combined 38.5 per cent.

The anti-Labor vote in these electorates was crushing. The spread in the primary Senate vote between the conservative parties and the Labor-Greens alliance was more than 20 per cent, 56.1 per cent to 35.7 per cent, which is huge in electoral terms.

It echoed the miserable vote for Labor in the lower house contests, and the fact that all three independents originally came from the Coalition side of politics............


http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/animosity-may-contort-electors-will-20100...

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Re: Ironman Abbott the best to govern
Reply #22 - Sep 6th, 2010 at 10:48am
 
Kingmakers could switch sides to break dead heat
By online political correspondent Emma Rodgers

Posted 16 minutes ago


Key independents say they may be forced to switch their support on which party to back in minority government if it looks as if the numbers will fall in a dead heat.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/nsw/

Surely this makes farcical situation even more of a farce,  no matter which way it goes.    If they believe that one side will be more stable than the other,  surely they should not abandon their principles simply to make up numbers.  If the don't reach GENUINE consensus then surely it should be back to the Australian people ?

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Re: Ironman Abbott the best to govern
Reply #23 - Sep 6th, 2010 at 10:53am
 

Sprintcyclist wrote on Sep 6th, 2010 at 10:38am:


...

Quote:
Quote:
........Now the three rural independents are saying they want a commitment to clean up the way Parliament conducts itself before making their decision. Their focus is on the abuse of question time. This column has raged no fewer than three times this year against the way question time has been debased. And who were the people who prostituted the process? Those of the Rudd-Gillard government.

Since Labor came to power in 2007, question time has blown out by 50 per cent while the time given to answering real questions has shrunk to less than 30 per cent of the time allotted. Arrogant ministers have set new lows in dissembling, diverting and droning.......
............ In the Senate vote in Bob Katter's north Queensland electorate of Kennedy , the Liberal National Party of Queensland crushed the ALP, winning a primary vote of 42.1 per cent to Labor's 26.5 per cent. When the primary votes of the conservative parties (Coalition, the anti-Green Fishing and Lifestyle Party, Family First, One Nation, Australia First and the Christian Democrats) were combined, it came to just under 60 per cent, close to double the combined vote of Labor and the Greens', 32.6 per cent. This is an anti-Labor landslide.

In Tony Windsor's electorate of New England, the Coalition won 44 per cent of the primary Senate vote, massively ahead of Labor's 28.8 per cent. The combined Senate vote of the conservative parties in New England was 55.2 per cent, massively ahead of the 35.9 per cent for Labor and the Greens.

Again, in Rob Oakeshott's seat of Lyne on the NSW north coast, the Coalition won 45.75 per cent of the Senate primary vote to Labor's 30.3 per cent, another anti-Labor landslide. Combined, the conservative parties' Senate vote in Lyne was 53.65 per cent to Labor and the Greens' combined 38.5 per cent.

The anti-Labor vote in these electorates was crushing. The spread in the primary Senate vote between the conservative parties and the Labor-Greens alliance was more than 20 per cent, 56.1 per cent to 35.7 per cent, which is huge in electoral terms.

It echoed the miserable vote for Labor in the lower house contests, and the fact that all three independents originally came from the Coalition side of politics............


http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/animosity-may-contort-electors-will-20100...



Fascinating, that right whingers should now be focusing on the national primary vote in the HoR and the Senate vote in the electorates of the 3 Independents alone...

Just goes to show that statistics can be selectively-mixed and manipulated to confect any number of untenable conclusions...

Besides, the Libs don't want to form Minority Govt: they want to force us back to the polls - cos they're arrogant and reckless enough to risk an all or nothing win/lose...

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Re: Ironman Abbott the best to govern
Reply #24 - Sep 6th, 2010 at 11:00am
 
nichy wrote on Sep 6th, 2010 at 10:48am:
Kingmakers could switch sides to break dead heat
By online political correspondent Emma Rodgers

Posted 16 minutes ago


Key independents say they may be forced to switch their support on which party to back in minority government if it looks as if the numbers will fall in a dead heat.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/nsw/

Surely this makes farcical situation even more of a farce,  no matter which way it goes.    If they believe that one side will be more stable than the other,  surely they should not abandon their principles simply to make up numbers.  If the don't reach GENUINE consensus then surely it should be back to the Australian people ?


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Re: Ironman Abbott the best to govern
Reply #25 - Sep 6th, 2010 at 11:03am
 
full

State of the Parties
76 seats required for victory

91.8% counted.
Updated Mon Sep 6 10:34AM
Party % Vote Swing Won Predict
Labor 38.0 -5.4         72 
Coalition 43.7 +1.6   73 
Greens 11.7 +3.9       1 
Others 6.6 -0.1          4 
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Re: Ironman Abbott the best to govern
Reply #26 - Sep 6th, 2010 at 11:11am
 

LOL...speaking of selectivity...let's re-insert the pieces of this article that SC didn't like: -

Sprintcyclist wrote on Sep 6th, 2010 at 10:38am:
Animosity may contort electors' will

September 6, 2010

The federal election had not even concluded when opinion polls were already informing us what the voters believed should happen to break the deadlock. First came polls saying the three rural independents who hold the balance of power should help the opposition form a new government. Now come polls saying they should allow the Labor government to hold power.

This incessant, intrusive, compulsive meddling by the news media, via their opinion polls and obsession with leadership struggles, has helped create eight federal leadership failures in eight years, during a period of sustained economic prosperity - mostly with no input from voters. This is gratuitous instability.


Now the three rural independents are saying they want a commitment to clean up the way Parliament conducts itself before making their decision. Their focus is on the abuse of question time. This column has raged no fewer than three times this year against the way question time has been debased. And who were the people who prostituted the process? Those of the Rudd-Gillard government.

Since Labor came to power in 2007, question time has blown out by 50 per cent while the time given to answering real questions has shrunk to less than 30 per cent of the time allotted. Arrogant ministers have set new lows in dissembling, diverting and droning.......

The debasement process has been abetted by the opposition's Christopher Pyne, one of the most irritating MPs ever to utter the words ''point of order''.

If Tony Abbott cannot see that he has to delete Pyne for the good working of the Parliament, and delete the liability known as Joe Hockey from the key role of shadow treasurer, he does not deserve to be prime minister.

But who does? When it comes to forming the next government, the only vote that matters is the majority in the House of Representatives, however it is cobbled together. But when it comes to expressing the will of the people, the only poll that matters is the election itself. In the electorates of the three rural independents, voters gave an unambiguous, emphatic message: Labor must go.

Each of them won a very strong personal vote, giving them the right to behave independently and, as it turned out, the luck of the draw as kingmakers. The average primary vote for Labor in these three electorates was 13.9 per cent, a failure reinforced by the Senate voting in these electorates.

No amount of spin, bluster, wishful thinking and logical headstanding can explain away the following numbers.


In the Senate vote in Bob Katter's north Queensland........
........

[...this section deleted due to OzPol character limits...]

.........It echoed the miserable vote for Labor in the lower house contests, and the fact that all three independents originally came from the Coalition side of politics.

Yet it is these three electorates that are on the brink of handing power back to the Labor government, which has forged an alliance with the Greens. And the most important priorities for the Greens, especially for Adam Bandt, the new member of the House of Representatives, are to impose a higher price on carbon, abolish mandatory detention of asylum seekers, and gain recognition for same-sex marriage.

Irony, irony, irony, thy name is Katter, Windsor and Oakeshott.

If they do hand power to Labor, the only thing that will account for this bizarre contortion of electoral intentions into parliamentary outcomes is the depth of animosities within the political civil war in rural Australia.

Rural and regional Australia is represented by a three-ring circus of Nationals, rural Liberals, and independents who are all at one another's throats.

Since the end of the Country Party, rural Australia has been unable to form a single bloc able to exercise the balance of power ruthlessly.

The animosities within these three rings are encapsulated on Bob Katter's website where, with typical colour, he singles out his former party for contempt: ''The National Party rolled over and accepted the deregulation of the wool industry, the egg, the maize, the dairy, the sugar … Having supinely succumbed to the dismemberment of their own heartland policies, their only choice was to tell us, a la Monty Python, 'that the parrot was not dead'.''

Such animosities within rural politics could turn Abbott's improbable run for the prime ministership into a dead parrot.



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Re: Ironman Abbott the best to govern
Reply #27 - Sep 6th, 2010 at 11:11am
 
TED MACK: People forget that these three are probably three of the most experienced members of parliament that they are so they didn't come down in the last shower and they certainly don't need any advice from me.

What I suspect that they will do however, I think they will back the Gillard Government. Now that sounds a bit unusual because they are sitting in National Party seats but the point is, if there is a Liberal/National government formed, then that government will do its best to get those three out of office because they think that those seats belong to them, whereas if Labor is in government, they know that they can never win those three seats so they have a vested interest in keeping those three seats, those three independents in power.
So I think those independents and their residents will get a lot more money spent on them than they would if there was a National Party government. I think that is probably the logic that they'll follow as well because they didn't come down in the last shower.
...
SABRA LANE: Do you care to forecast what will happen for the major party that misses out this week?

TED MACK: Well, they will be the most angry Opposition you can get, I would think.

SABRA LANE: Will they be out to seek revenge?

TED MACK: Of course they will. Of course they will.
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Re: Ironman Abbott the best to govern
Reply #28 - Sep 6th, 2010 at 11:21am
 

Soren wrote on Sep 6th, 2010 at 11:11am:
TED MACK: People forget that these three are probably three of the most experienced members of parliament that they are so they didn't come down in the last shower and they certainly don't need any advice from me.

What I suspect that they will do however, I think they will back the Gillard Government. Now that sounds a bit unusual because they are sitting in National Party seats but the point is, if there is a Liberal/National government formed, then that government will do its best to get those three out of office because they think that those seats belong to them, whereas if Labor is in government, they know that they can never win those three seats so they have a vested interest in keeping those three seats, those three independents in power.
So I think those independents and their residents will get a lot more money spent on them than they would if there was a National Party government. I think that is probably the logic that they'll follow as well because they didn't come down in the last shower.
...
SABRA LANE: Do you care to forecast what will happen for the major party that misses out this week?

TED MACK: Well, they will be the most angry Opposition you can get, I would think.

SABRA LANE: Will they be out to seek revenge?

TED MACK: Of course they will. Of course they will.


Yup, the Libs cannot be trusted to act out of good will - regardless of whether the Independents support them - and these savvy Indpendents know it!

By contrast, the Independents won't feel threatened by the Labs - and their electorates will doubtless benefit from this once-off 3 year opportunity to secure long-overdue changes in rural and regional Australia...

As for the rest of us, we'll hopefully be able to take comfort in the knowledge that the rabid Libs remain in the policy wilderness for a while longer...

But, after the initial implosion, would the remnant Libs have enough insight to reflect upon the folly of their history of negative, draconian and divisive politics - and appreciate the patent unsuitability of Abbott at the helm of the Party, much less the nation!?
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Re: Ironman Abbott the best to govern
Reply #29 - Sep 6th, 2010 at 11:47am
 
Equitist wrote on Sep 6th, 2010 at 11:21am:
As for the rest of us, we'll hopefully be able to take comfort in the knowledge that the rabid Libs remain in the policy wilderness for a while longer...





Your parrotting of the same old same old is touching.

If by wilderness you mean getting rid of Mr 70% and completely destabilising Labor within the space of 9 months - that's the wilderness for me! The Labor/Green/Independent alliance will be the coup de grace
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