https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cpddxy9r4mdo

Conservatives plan to bring back mandatory national service

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/1024/cpsprodpb/28d4/live/3fd0cbb0-1ad1-11ef-856c-97dc546b2d37.jpg


33 minutes ago
Emily McGarvey,BBC News


The Conservative Party has said it would bring back mandatory national service if it wins the general election.

It said 18-year-olds would have a choice of either joining the military full-time, or volunteering one weekend every month carrying out a community service.

The party is proposing a Royal Commission to consider the details but would plan for the first teenagers to take part in September 2025.

The cost is expected to be around £2.5bn per year.

Under the plans, young people could choose a full-time, 12-month placement in the armed forces or UK cyber defence, learning about logistics, cyber security, procurement or civil response operations.

Their other option would be to volunteer one weekend per month - or 25 days per year - in their community with organisations such as fire, police and the NHS.

Prime Minister Rishi Sunak said he believed bringing back compulsory service across the UK would help foster the "national spirit" that emerged during the pandemic.

Mr Sunak said: “This is a great country but generations of young people have not had the opportunities or experience they deserve and there are forces trying to divide our society in this increasingly uncertain world.

“I have a clear plan to address this and secure our future. I will bring in a new model of National Service to create a shared sense of purpose among our young people and a renewed sense of pride in our country."



A number of European countries, including Sweden, Norway and Denmark, already have a form of conscription for their armed forces.

Conscription requires young men and women to serve for a limited time in uniform. It means that some of the population will have had some military training - and can then be assigned to reserve units should war break out.

Cuts in the British Army have seen its size fall from more than 100,000 in 2010 to around 73,000 as of January 2024.

I'm sure aquascoot will be along shortly to give us another lecture about "personal responsibility" and the "superior man" but before he does, my opinion is that I would probably be able to count the number of young people who will sign up for this with the fingers on both hands (and that's probably an overestimate). Mandatory or not... and if everyone ignores it what will the government do? Fine and/or jail millions of young people?

As useless and incompetent as our own PM is I get the distinct impression Rishi Sunak is a whole lot worse.

A perfect example is how he (and Boris Johnson before him) let Covid run rampant in the UK resulting in nearly a quarter of a million deaths and 2 million Long Covid cases (and increasing) and he now wants everyone to get back to work and as an "encouragement" he wants to remove GPs’ abilities to issue sick notes.

‘Incredibly insulting’: prime minister announces plans to curb ‘sick note culture’


Quote:

Prime minister Rishi Sunak last week announced plans to remove GPs’ abilities to issue sick notes, as reports have emerged that the government is also planning to scrap a major scheme designed to support disabled people into work.

With so many people off sick all the time - and the same thing is now happening in Australia - there won't be enough workers left soon to keep the economy going, so they can also forget about finding anyone to do National Service.

This dangerous man (Sunak) and his party needs to be booted out of office as soon as possible.

Carl,

Quote:

my opinion is that I would probably be able to count the number of young people who will sign up for this with the fingers on both hands (and that's probably an overestimate). Mandatory or not... and if everyone ignores it what will the government do? Fine and/or jail millions of young people?

Yes - it's not going to be a popular idea.
Then again - unless the war in Ukraine stops soon the UK will be in it
and so will all of Europe.

Bobby. wrote on May 26^th, 2024 at 11:10am:

Carl, Quote: my opinion is that I would probably be able to count the number of young people who will sign up for this with the fingers on both hands (and that's probably an overestimate). Mandatory or not... and if everyone ignores it what will the government do? Fine and/or jail millions of young people? Yes - it's not going to be a popular idea. Then again - unless the war in Ukraine stops soon the UK will be in it and so will all of Europe.

bobby,

I suspect there could be -- militant -- protests on UK streets,
by members of WOKE and LEFTIST groups,
if any UK government tried to send UK conscripts to Ukraine ???


Young people.

Their heart is not in it, bobby ?....

'Self sacrifice, for others ?       .......what is that, all about ?'

Lets face it bobby, this is the...        'It is all about me!, me!, me!, me!'       generation !



bobby,

Couldn't the UK government just choose to send AI combat robots to Ukraine instead ???
:)       :)

Yadda,

Quote:

bobby, Couldn't the UK government just choose to send AI combat robots to Ukraine instead ?

That's what guided missiles and cruise missiles are -
robot devices.

Bobby. wrote on May 26^th, 2024 at 11:31am:

Yadda, Quote: bobby, Couldn't the UK government just choose to send AI combat robots to Ukraine instead ? That's what guided missiles and cruise missiles are - robot devices.

bobby,

How long before someone pushes one of their bluff's too far ?
.....and WWIII starts ?

Or, in default, has WWIII already started ?

Yadda wrote on May 26^th, 2024 at 11:38am:

Bobby. wrote on May 26th, 2024 at 11:31am: Yadda, Quote: bobby, Couldn't the UK government just choose to send AI combat robots to Ukraine instead ? That's what guided missiles and cruise missiles are - robot devices. bobby, How long before someone pushes one of their bluff's too far ? .....and WWIII starts ? Or, in default, has WWIII already started ?

Putin will push the nuke button when he he knows he's losing.
He'll take the world down with him like Samson.

Bobby. wrote on May 26^th, 2024 at 11:41am:

Putin will push the nuke button when he he knows he's losing. He'll take the world down with him like Samson.

Yep.  !!!

It does not seem beyond the bounds of possibility, with someone [a personality] like Adolf Putin.

Stalin, Adolf, Xi, Putin.......all megalomaniacs.



In power, would we be any different ?

Absolute political power corrupts......absolutely.

Bobby. wrote on May 26^th, 2024 at 10:38am:

It said 18-year-olds would have a choice of either joining the military full-time, or volunteering one weekend every month carrying out a community service.

And if they choose to do neither?

Another bright idea from a politician that is worth a sound bite or two but is utterly impractical in real life.  ::)

greggerypeccary wrote on May 26^th, 2024 at 11:59am:

Bobby. wrote on May 26th, 2024 at 10:38am: It said 18-year-olds would have a choice of either joining the military full-time, or volunteering one weekend every month carrying out a community service. And if they choose to do neither?

Are these dickheads going to throw teenagers in prison if they don't participate?

"The prison system in England and Wales is dangerously close to capacity, with 98 percent of available spaces full, according to data released by Britain’s Ministry of Justice on Friday that experts said underscored an ongoing crisis within the criminal justice system."

greggerypeccary wrote on May 26^th, 2024 at 12:06pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on May 26th, 2024 at 11:59am: Bobby. wrote on May 26th, 2024 at 10:38am: It said 18-year-olds would have a choice of either joining the military full-time, or volunteering one weekend every month carrying out a community service. And if they choose to do neither? Are these dickheads going to throw teenagers in prison if they don't participate? "The prison system in England and Wales is dangerously close to capacity, with 98 percent of available spaces full, according to data released by Britain’s Ministry of Justice on Friday that experts said underscored an ongoing crisis within the criminal justice system."

Concentration camps?

The people who accept conscription could be used to arrest and guard the ones who don't.

If the majority resists it will be a huge hit to the UK economy.

Conscription won't last longer than the time from execution of conscription to the next election.

Carl D wrote on May 26^th, 2024 at 11:02am:

I'm sure aquascoot will be along shortly to give us another lecture about "personal responsibility" and the "superior man" but before he does, my opinion is that I would probably be able to count the number of young people who will sign up for this with the fingers on both hands (and that's probably an overestimate). Mandatory or not... and if everyone ignores it what will the government do? Fine and/or jail millions of young people? As useless and incompetent as our own PM is I get the distinct impression Rishi Sunak is a whole lot worse. A perfect example is how he (and Boris Johnson before him) let Covid run rampant in the UK resulting in nearly a quarter of a million deaths and 2 million Long Covid cases (and increasing) and he now wants everyone to get back to work and as an "encouragement" he wants to remove GPs’ abilities to issue sick notes. ‘Incredibly insulting’: prime minister announces plans to curb ‘sick note culture’ Quote: Prime minister Rishi Sunak last week announced plans to remove GPs’ abilities to issue sick notes, as reports have emerged that the government is also planning to scrap a major scheme designed to support disabled people into work. With so many people off sick all the time - and the same thing is now happening in Australia - there won't be enough workers left soon to keep the economy going, so they can also forget about finding anyone to do National Service. This dangerous man (Sunak) and his party needs to be booted out of office as soon as possible.

2 million  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

The vast majority of the young folk will choose: "volunteering one weekend every month carrying out a community service"

Bias_2012 wrote on May 26^th, 2024 at 2:32pm:

The vast majority of the young folk will choose: "volunteering one weekend every month carrying out a community service"

What about the ones who choose neither option, though - are they gonna throw them in prison?

greggerypeccary wrote on May 26^th, 2024 at 2:54pm:

Bias_2012 wrote on May 26th, 2024 at 2:32pm: The vast majority of the young folk will choose: "volunteering one weekend every month carrying out a community service" What about the ones who choose neither option, though - are they gonna throw them in prison?

Public hangings with clowns and other entertainment?

David Cameron will be the Master of Ceremonies and hangman.

Laugh till you cry wrote on May 26^th, 2024 at 3:14pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on May 26th, 2024 at 2:54pm: Bias_2012 wrote on May 26th, 2024 at 2:32pm: The vast majority of the young folk will choose: "volunteering one weekend every month carrying out a community service" What about the ones who choose neither option, though - are they gonna throw them in prison? Public hangings with clowns and other entertainment? David Cameron will be the Master of Ceremonies and hangman.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e1/6a/a8/e16aa8ddf7e371e3f717a5eaa4b3007c.jpg

Laugh till you cry wrote on May 26^th, 2024 at 1:09pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on May 26th, 2024 at 12:06pm: greggerypeccary wrote on May 26th, 2024 at 11:59am: Bobby. wrote on May 26th, 2024 at 10:38am: It said 18-year-olds would have a choice of either joining the military full-time, or volunteering one weekend every month carrying out a community service. And if they choose to do neither? Are these dickheads going to throw teenagers in prison if they don't participate? "The prison system in England and Wales is dangerously close to capacity, with 98 percent of available spaces full, according to data released by Britain’s Ministry of Justice on Friday that experts said underscored an ongoing crisis within the criminal justice system." Concentration camps? The people who accept conscription could be used to arrest and guard the ones who don't. If the majority resists it will be a huge hit to the UK economy. Conscription won't last longer than the time from execution of conscription to the next election.

yep - the tinted Rishi will have to open concentration camps and put Whities in it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahgjEjJkZks

Brian Ross wrote on May 26^th, 2024 at 4:17pm:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahgjEjJkZks

Very funny but did Rishi have any survey done?

Conservatives on X:

https://x.com/Conservatives/status/1794644628748345355


Quote:

We'll introduce a bold new model of National Service. To up-skill the next generation, make our nation secure & build a stronger national culture. Whether in the Armed Forces or volunteering in our NHS, every young person will do their duty to build a secure future for the UK.

Dr. Philip Lee on X:

https://x.com/drphiliplee1/status/1794670956650299752


Quote:

I cannot wait until our ward is staffed by "volunteer" teenagers who don't want to be there.

Indeed. The NHS (National Health Service) in the UK has enough problems to deal with these days with Covid, etc. as it is.

Sunak said he believed it will foster the "national spirit, generations of young people have not had the opportunities or experience they deserve".
Teenage surgeons will gain job skills repairing hearts and stomachs of Britons at death's door.

chimera wrote on May 27^th, 2024 at 4:21am:

will foster the "national spirit"

This was the "national spirit" in Australia in 1966

William White being dragged away by four syphiloid infected turds

http://barkeryear10vietnam.pbworks.com/f/untitled111.JPG


http://barkeryear10vietnam.pbworks.com/w/page/11427558/Conscientious%20Objectors

At least the British at 18 years have voting rights.  In 1966 Oz slave-soldiers had no vote. It was 'Die for the Fatherland' (South Vietnam).

Before conscription, our young men/women joined the military to fight against the hollywood dehumanized version of the enemy. Or, against the manufactured exitential threat to our glorified freedoms that was never threatened(stopping the spread of Communism).

War has always been created by the oligarchy. Telling us to fight HIS enemies until he can get all of his spoils. This also  includes all covert oligarchy under false democracy and Crony Capitalism. Oligarchs get richer(since they invest in the war), and the poor jusyt get poorer(since they fund and fight the wa). This is a negative-sum game vs. peace and free trade.

The only true justification for war, is in self-defense of your own nation. NOT IN THE DEFENSE OF OTHER NATIONS! Not because of escalations of events, caused by foreign presence on foreign soil. I doubts if any Australian or American soldier wants to die for any Croat soldier. Or, wants to start WWIII.

War can also be used to cull the world population.

War also changes people's personality. Many found suicide as their only means of recovery from their PTSD. After soldiers fought in the trenches, the romanticized version of war quickly ended. Conscription for WWII had to be legislated.

If old men want war, let them fight in it!! They can still join the Legionnaires!!

https://www.quora.com/How-much-does-fighting-in-a-war-change-a-person
https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=876612176515421

greggerypeccary wrote on May 26^th, 2024 at 2:54pm:

Bias_2012 wrote on May 26th, 2024 at 2:32pm: The vast majority of the young folk will choose: "volunteering one weekend every month carrying out a community service" What about the ones who choose neither option, though - are they gonna throw them in prison?

I imagine there will be a carrot and stick approach.  Those who complete national service get preference in university and community college places and assistance with costs, preferential employment in government agencies ( some private businesses would also be on board with that) cheap home loans....all that sort of thing.  Those who don't comply will be at the back of the queue for higher education places, maybe restricted or no unemployment benefits.....

While there may arguably be some benefit in the community service area, compulsory military service is not a good idea. 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-05-27/what-is-rishi-sunak-plan-for-uk-national-service/103896120


What does British Prime Minister Rishi Sunak's proposed national service plan mean?

By Kaitlin Easton and Audrey Courty

Posted 2h ago


Here is what we know about the proposed policy and the history of national service in Australia.
What is the difference between national service and conscription?

Conscription means people are forced to join the armed forces for a certain period of time.

Mr Sunak's national service proposal falls some way short of that.

British 18-year-olds would be compelled to volunteer in the community or enter a 12-month placement in the armed forces.
What would national service look like in the UK?

Teenagers would be given two choices if the Conservatives win the general election and enforce national service in the UK.

The first option would be volunteering in the community, giving up one weekend a month for a year.

Placements could include helping the NHS, police and fire services, and some charities.

A full-time placement in the armed forces for 12 months would be the second option.

Young people who chose this option would "learn and take part in logistics, cyber security, procurement or civil response operations," the Conservatives said.

National service would apply to young people in England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland.

Bobby. wrote on May 27^th, 2024 at 5:05pm:

The first option would be volunteering in the community, giving up one weekend a month for a year. Placements could include helping the NHS, police and fire services, and some charities.

Yeah they'll be forced to "volunteer" ... only a major party would say "volunteer" when it's really conscription. The Coalition here thought that way in the 60s, they reckoned if 20y/olds complied with conscription, they were actually volunteering, never mind the two year jail term if they didn't

If the UK teens are asked to sign any papers, they should sign with their little finger

Brian Ross wrote on May 26^th, 2024 at 4:17pm:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahgjEjJkZks

Not satire. Documentary.

Bobby. wrote on May 27^th, 2024 at 5:05pm:

Placements could include helping the police

Teenage boys from gangs get a truncheon, armour jacket and boots to visit a rival gang. Girls in ambulances collect the stiffs.

The 2014 occupation of Crimea woke Sweden up—but so did basic math. In Sweden’s wealthy, highly individualistic society, voluntary military service held scant appeal. An experiment with part-time professional soldiers was a failure. The military shrank rapidly: By 2013, only 579 recruits completed the full 11 months of initial entry training. On Jan. 1, 2018, Sweden pulled the plug on its failed policy and restored mandatory military service.

Unlike the Cold War system, however, Swedish conscription is now both selective and gender neutral. A hundred thousand 18-year-olds are screened for service annually, but only about 5 percent of this cohort serves. Sweden aims to double this number by 2030. Roughly 10 percent of those serving do so unwillingly, with jail the alternative.

Selective conscription, stiffened and led by a small professional force, potentially offers armies the best of both worlds. Since the military needs only a small fraction of every cohort, it can afford to be very picky—standards are higher in Sweden’s post-2018 force than they were before 2010. As in any society, this exclusivity functions as a signaling device: Educational and corporate leaders know that successful conscript service marks a young Swede as being in the top of his or her peer group—doubly so for the small portion of conscripts selected for additional training and longer service as junior officers.

As in any competent conscription system, Swedish national service has two major advantages beyond the basic manning of the military: talent acquisition and expansion of reserves. On the front end, Sweden can screen all young people in the nation, select the most promising for military service, and then attempt to induce the best to stay on for a military career.
https://foreignpolicy.com/2024/03/15/sweden-nato-military-conscription-model-defense/

Other smart countries with (selective) conscription: Denmark, Norway, Finland, Switzerland, Israel, Austria and a few others.

It is a good idea if it is done smartly.

Frank,

Quote:

Sweden can screen all young people in the nation, select the most promising for military service

Rather unfortunate for society.
I read somewhere the the best scientists and engineers in the world
are involved in military projects instead of doing jobs to make the world a better place.
What a shocking waste of our best human resources -
working out better ways to kill each other instead of furthering our civilisation.

Most non-nuclear modern wars today may not require any boots-on-the-ground at all.  In an age of drones, laser-guided missiles, chemical/biological agents, and robots, the battlefield will look a lot different.

The events on 9/ll have showed us that you really only need is a skilled coder, a half-decent computer, and a working Internet connection to wreak havoc on an enemy.

We even have DNA-Signature weapons. We can craft viruses that can only afflict people with a specific DNA-signature. Including their families.

Even though a nuclear war is an unwinnable moment of suicidal madness. It will always be the default choice over a country's total annihilation.

Increasing the size of the military through conscription, only adds more meat to the grounder.

Bobby. wrote on May 27^th, 2024 at 6:59pm:

Frank, Quote: Sweden can screen all young people in the nation, select the most promising for military service Rather unfortunate for society. I read somewhere the the best scientists and engineers in the world are involved in military projects instead of doing jobs to make the world a better place. What a shocking waste of our best human resources - working out better ways to kill each other instead of furthering our civilisation.

You are a boob, Booby.  A "Press me, I'm a tit" kind of boob.

Defence is not about "ways to kill each other". 

In a capitalist society killing people pays better than nurturing and healing people.

Frank wrote on May 27^th, 2024 at 9:58pm:

Bobby. wrote on May 27th, 2024 at 6:59pm: Frank, Quote: Sweden can screen all young people in the nation, select the most promising for military service Rather unfortunate for society. I read somewhere the the best scientists and engineers in the world are involved in military projects instead of doing jobs to make the world a better place. What a shocking waste of our best human resources - working out better ways to kill each other instead of furthering our civilisation. You are a boob, Booby.  A "Press me, I'm a tit" kind of boob. Defence is not about "ways to kill each other".

The military scientists are always building bigger and better bombs.     ::)

Frank wrote on May 27^th, 2024 at 9:58pm:

Defence is not about "ways to kill each other".

'Australian Defence Force (ADF) policy on maternal health care: Health Directive No 235 - Management of pregnant members in the Australian Defence Force.'
The budget is $52.5 billion with 27% for nappies, milk formula and noise control. 72% is for military birth operations, 1% for missiles.

Let us face things. The West is gearing up for something in the next 20 years. There probably will be Sunak, Macron, and Albanese around then to see the results of their preparation.

I'm all for this.

Laugh till you cry wrote on May 27^th, 2024 at 10:06pm:

In a capitalist society killing people pays better than nurturing and healing people.

Says the troll who has stated on this very forum he'd love to "rape" me.

Marla wrote on Jun 9^th, 2024 at 2:34am:

I'm all for this.

You are all for what?