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General Discussion >> General Board >> We Need A Increase In The Minimum Wage
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Message started by whiteknight on May 18th, 2024 at 1:30pm

Title: We Need A Increase In The Minimum Wage
Post by whiteknight on May 18th, 2024 at 1:30pm
Bosses say budget assistance justifies smaller minimum wage increase   :(

Financial Review
May 17, 2024

Employers have called for wage restraint this year, pointing out that the assistance on power bills and rents outlined in this week’s budget will help workers cope with cost-of-living pressures.

The Australian Industry Group told the annual wage review on Friday that the government’s latest cost-of-living measures reinforced its claim that minimum-wage workers should get an increase of no more than 2.8 per cent this July 1.   :(

The peak body estimates the power bill and rental measures will have a similar value to lower-income households as the re-profiled stage three tax cuts, which it says equate to an $809 a year increase in pre-tax income for the median award employee.


Australian Industry Group chief executive Innes Willox quoted former union chief Bill Kelty in support of his position.

“These measures ensure a real increase in the disposable income of employees on minimum and award wages,” chief executive Innes Willox said.

“The need to take budget support measures into account in reviewing wages has been supported by former ACTU secretary and former RBA board member, Bill Kelty, who is reported as saying this week: ‘If you’re giving energy relief and rent relief then the minimum wage is likely to be lower’.”


The comment was reported by The Australian in the context of the likelihood of the budget measures reducing the Consumer Price Index.

Mr Kelty told AFR Weekend that the budget had “a good set of policies for the minimum wage, [better] than it was last year” where he said increased taxes left workers with less, despite a record 5.75 per cent pay increase.

“It’s got an income tax cut for cost of living, targeted relief for rent and a very specific proposal to help with energy – it’s a much better framework to fix up the real wages of low-income people,” he said.

But the Australian Council of Trade Unions, which is pushing for a 5 per cent increase, rejected AiGroup’s position as an “insult” to low-paid workers.

“Energy bill relief and increases to rent assistance in the budget are welcome relief for workers doing it tough, and many small businesses will also benefit from the energy relief,” president Michele O’Neil said.

“For the big business lobby groups to jump on this cost-of-living measure to argue for lower wages is an insult.

“Their argument is that the budget cost-of-living relief should go into the pockets of business, not our lowest-paid workers.”

She highlighted that not all workers on the minimum wage would receive the relief. The government has recommended that the minimum wage “not go backwards” and has opposed an increase below inflation, which was 3.6 per cent in the March quarter.

AiGroup’s post-budget submission also pointed to recent jobs and wages data that showed slowing private sector pay rises and a weakening labour market to back its position for a smaller increase.

Treasury and the RBA were forecasting real GDP growth to slow to the middle of 2024 and not return to its pre-pandemic average by the end of the forward forecasts, it said.

“In line with these deteriorating economic circumstances, it remains critical for the panel to adopt a cautious approach to adjusting wages,” the submission said.

Ms O’Neil argued a 5 per cent pay rise was urgently needed to tackle cost-of-living pressures, and that “businesses can easily afford this, as profits are well above pre-pandemic levels”.

AiGroup also rebuked the ACTU’s use of Labor’s new gender equity objective for the Fair Work Commission to push for a 9 per cent minimum wage increase for female-dominated awards.

Not-for-profits, such as in disability or early education sectors, “will be entirely unable to meet the kind of wage increases called for, or recover the higher costs from either current government funding arrangements or the often vulnerable people they assist”, the submission said.

The wage panel will hold consultation hearings about this year’s increase on Wednesday.

Title: Re: We Need A Increase In The Minimum Wage
Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on May 18th, 2024 at 1:58pm
We need a massive crackdown on costs of living and working for the majority....

Title: Re: We Need A Increase In The Minimum Wage
Post by thegreatdivide on May 18th, 2024 at 2:28pm

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 18th, 2024 at 1:58pm:
We need a massive crackdown on costs of living and working for the majority....


Any ideas?

Title: Re: We Need A Increase In The Minimum Wage
Post by Frank on May 18th, 2024 at 2:37pm


One million workers to be captured by top tax bracket in 2024-25

The number of taxpayers in the highest income bracket has almost doubled in five years, despite the top threshold being lifted by $10,000 next year, leaving the wealthiest Australian workers paying a much greater share of tax than before the three-stage ­reforms began.


About one million people will pay the top tax rate of 45c in 2024-25, with the share of workers in this bracket rising from 4.4 per cent in 2019-20 to 7.4 per cent.

The analysis from Ben Phillips at the ANU’s Centre for Social Research and Methods shows greater numbers of Australians being forced into the highest tax bracket even though the top marginal rate will kick in at $190,000 instead of $180,000 under the July 1 changes.

These workers will contribute 36.9 per cent in 2024-25 – a marked increase on the 31.6 per cent they contributed in 2019-20.

Professor Phillips told The Weekend Australian: “It’s quite clear that in spite of the tax cuts in July, the share of tax paid by high-income earners remains very high and a highly progressive tax system remains in place.”

With tax from individuals forecast to be 46.7 per cent of all government receipts – rising to 49 per cent in 2027-28 – the one million workers in the top tax bracket will contribute $1 out of every $6 that goes into government coffers next year. All taxes and non-tax receipts are forecast to total $698.4bn.

Jim Chalmers this week championed the revamped stage three income tax cuts as Labor’s key cost-of-living measure in the budget, declaring the average benefit was $1888 a year – or $36 a week.

But experts warned Australia had an over-reliance on taxing personal incomes. The general manager of technical policy at the Institute of Public Accountants, Tony Greco, said this problem would be compounded by the ageing population and took aim at the budget for failing to address the structural problem in the system.

“The number of people working as a proportion of those who have retired shrinks. So, not only are we taxing this source disproportionately, but it’s going to shrink,” Mr Greco said.

He said the top marginal tax rate of 47 per cent, including the Medicare levy, was an internationally high rate that kicked in at a “relatively low $190,000”.

“I think the answer is it won’t help with productivity or for aspiring people to work the extra hour,” he said. “I think that’s the issue. It starts to bite productivity and that’s one of the reasons productivity is lagging … it’s not a healthy statistic.”

Title: Re: We Need A Increase In The Minimum Wage
Post by Frank on May 18th, 2024 at 2:42pm

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 18th, 2024 at 1:58pm:
We need a massive crackdown on costs of living and working for the majority....



Sack Bowen, ditch the net zero lunacy, cut immigration by trolley pushers, uber drivers and food delivery "students", cut government spending and income tax for workers,  scrap all exemptions from the GST.

For starters.

Title: Re: We Need A Increase In The Minimum Wage
Post by aquascoot on May 18th, 2024 at 5:53pm

Frank wrote on May 18th, 2024 at 2:42pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 18th, 2024 at 1:58pm:
We need a massive crackdown on costs of living and working for the majority....



Sack Bowen, ditch the net zero lunacy, cut immigration by trolley pushers, uber drivers and food delivery "students", cut government spending and income tax for workers,  scrap all exemptions from the GST.

For starters.



well said frank  :)

Title: Re: We Need A Increase In The Minimum Wage
Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on May 18th, 2024 at 6:40pm

thegreatdivide wrote on May 18th, 2024 at 2:28pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 18th, 2024 at 1:58pm:
We need a massive crackdown on costs of living and working for the majority....


Any ideas?


Refuted months ago.....

Title: Re: We Need A Increase In The Minimum Wage
Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on May 18th, 2024 at 6:51pm

Frank wrote on May 18th, 2024 at 2:37pm:
One million workers to be captured by top tax bracket in 2024-25

The number of taxpayers in the highest income bracket has almost doubled in five years, despite the top threshold being lifted by $10,000 next year, leaving the wealthiest Australian workers paying a much greater share of tax than before the three-stage ­reforms began.


About one million people will pay the top tax rate of 45c in 2024-25, with the share of workers in this bracket rising from 4.4 per cent in 2019-20 to 7.4 per cent.

The analysis from Ben Phillips at the ANU’s Centre for Social Research and Methods shows greater numbers of Australians being forced into the highest tax bracket even though the top marginal rate will kick in at $190,000 instead of $180,000 under the July 1 changes.

These workers will contribute 36.9 per cent in 2024-25 – a marked increase on the 31.6 per cent they contributed in 2019-20.

Professor Phillips told The Weekend Australian: “It’s quite clear that in spite of the tax cuts in July, the share of tax paid by high-income earners remains very high and a highly progressive tax system remains in place.”

With tax from individuals forecast to be 46.7 per cent of all government receipts – rising to 49 per cent in 2027-28 – the one million workers in the top tax bracket will contribute $1 out of every $6 that goes into government coffers next year. All taxes and non-tax receipts are forecast to total $698.4bn.

Jim Chalmers this week championed the revamped stage three income tax cuts as Labor’s key cost-of-living measure in the budget, declaring the average benefit was $1888 a year – or $36 a week.

But experts warned Australia had an over-reliance on taxing personal incomes. The general manager of technical policy at the Institute of Public Accountants, Tony Greco, said this problem would be compounded by the ageing population and took aim at the budget for failing to address the structural problem in the system.

“The number of people working as a proportion of those who have retired shrinks. So, not only are we taxing this source disproportionately, but it’s going to shrink,” Mr Greco said.

He said the top marginal tax rate of 47 per cent, including the Medicare levy, was an internationally high rate that kicked in at a “relatively low $190,000”.

“I think the answer is it won’t help with productivity or for aspiring people to work the extra hour,” he said. “I think that’s the issue. It starts to bite productivity and that’s one of the reasons productivity is lagging … it’s not a healthy statistic.”


Easy to fix bracket creep - index it like a pollie's retirement rort.... no problem ... they make such a big deal of this for political purposes - just one more way of distracting and dividing the conquered... keeping them off balance.  Never give peasants time to think....

Title: Re: We Need A Increase In The Minimum Wage
Post by Frank on May 18th, 2024 at 6:54pm

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 18th, 2024 at 6:40pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 18th, 2024 at 2:28pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 18th, 2024 at 1:58pm:
We need a massive crackdown on costs of living and working for the majority....


Any ideas?


Refuted months ago.....

:D :D
Months ago AND above....

Title: Re: We Need A Increase In The Minimum Wage
Post by Gordon on May 18th, 2024 at 6:58pm
What's the minimum per hour rate?

Title: Re: We Need A Increase In The Minimum Wage
Post by whiteknight on May 19th, 2024 at 10:11am
All Australian workers are entitled to a minimum wage. This is the least you can be paid for doing a certain job.   :-?

It’s illegal for an employer to pay you less than the minimum wage.

As of 1 July 2023, the national minimum wage is $23.23 an hour or $882.74 a week (if you work 38 hours).

The only employees who can be paid less are:

workers aged under 21;
workers on the Supported Wage System, and
apprentices and trainees.
Otherwise, the national minimum wage is what it says on the box: the lowest rate you can be paid, no matter what your job.

Title: Re: We Need A Increase In The Minimum Wage
Post by whiteknight on May 19th, 2024 at 10:17am
ACTU calls for 5% increase to minimum wages   :)
Media Release - March 25, 2024 ACTU.
The ACTU announced it will seek a 5% increase in Australia’s minimum and award wages as part of its submission to the Annual Wage Review.

Each year, the Fair Work Commission hears from unions, employers and Governments before setting minimum and award wages for about 2.9 million, or one in four workers, which comes into effect on 1 July 2024.

Workers on awards are about $5,200 worse off after inflation has eaten away at their pay rises over the past three years, despite recent positive increases in award wages. The ACTU claim would help workers meet current prices rises and make up for the lost income over this period.

The ACTU submission argues that business can afford this fair and sensible increase, especially as levels of profits are well above pre-pandemic levels.

The claim would also have no negative impact on inflation, partly because the wages and hours of some of Australia’s lowest paid workers are modest. Indeed, last year was the biggest increase to the minimum wage in over 40 years, and inflation dropped by 3.7%.

The increase would especially benefit women and part time workers, as 3 in 5 award workers are women and 2 in 3 are part time.

A 5% wage increase would lift the minimum hourly rate to $24.39 and the minimum annual full-time rate by $2,295 to take it to $48,200.

Quotes attributable to ACTU Secretary Sally McManus:

“The lowest paid workers are the ones who are the hardest hit by inflation, they need a 5% pay increase to start to get ahead again and make up for the real wage losses over the last few years.

“When inflation goes up businesses are able to adjust their prices to protect their margins, but workers pay does not move so easily. This is why the annual wage review is so important, it is when the lowest paid workers have to chance to catch up, the result makes an enormous difference to millions of families.

“A 5% pay increase is fair and reasonable. For some perspective, the CBA posted a $10 billion in profit last financial year. It could pay for the entire union wage claim for 2.9 million workers of 5% and still be one of the most profitable businesses in the country.”

Title: Re: We Need A Increase In The Minimum Wage
Post by Captain Nemo on May 19th, 2024 at 10:32am
Good ol' ACTU ... they love to fuel inflation.  ::)

Title: Re: We Need A Increase In The Minimum Wage
Post by whiteknight on May 20th, 2024 at 5:48pm
This is why we need an increase in the minimum wage.  So people can catch up to inflation.   :(

Title: Re: We Need A Increase In The Minimum Wage
Post by thegreatdivide on May 20th, 2024 at 6:19pm

aquascoot wrote on May 18th, 2024 at 5:53pm:

Frank wrote on May 18th, 2024 at 2:42pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 18th, 2024 at 1:58pm:
We need a massive crackdown on costs of living and working for the majority....



Sack Bowen, ditch the net zero lunacy, cut immigration by trolley pushers, uber drivers and food delivery "students", cut government spending and income tax for workers,  scrap all exemptions from the GST.

For starters.


well said frank  :)


Nah, you are all low tax, personal responsibility losers.

The happiest peple in  the world live under high-tax regimes.

https://www.financialexpress.com/policy/economy-those-who-pay-higher-tax-are-happier-dont-believe-us-heres-the-proof-1101148/

World Happiness Report 2018: Those who pay higher tax are happier! Don’t believe us, here’s the proof

Eminent social-scientist Benjamin Radcliff has drawn a parallel between happiness and tax rates, saying that “higher levels of taxation suggest higher levels of satisfaction with life”, and hence more happiness. And there are other social scientists too who contend the same.16 Mar 2018

Meanwhile, heterodox economists are offering a zero tax  (which you crave for),  zero interest rate, zero inflation, full employment economy, but you need to do your own research on that topic.

Title: Re: We Need A Increase In The Minimum Wage
Post by thegreatdivide on May 20th, 2024 at 6:28pm

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 18th, 2024 at 6:40pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 18th, 2024 at 2:28pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 18th, 2024 at 1:58pm:
We need a massive crackdown on costs of living and working for the majority....


Any ideas?


Refuted months ago.....


Your ideas were refuted months ago? (sorry, couldn't resist replying with a FD-style question...)

But you didn't refute anything, now or months ago.

You merely claimed "real jobs"  are private sector jobs, and you discounted the value of work which the local community wants done, even if the work is not part of the market economy. 

"Give a man a fish (welfare) and he can feed himself for a day.

Teach a man how to fish (ie, how to  engage paid work) and he will feed himself for a life-time." 

Title: Re: We Need A Increase In The Minimum Wage
Post by Frank on May 20th, 2024 at 6:42pm

thegreatdivide wrote on May 20th, 2024 at 6:28pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 18th, 2024 at 6:40pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 18th, 2024 at 2:28pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 18th, 2024 at 1:58pm:
We need a massive crackdown on costs of living and working for the majority....


Any ideas?


Refuted months ago.....


Your ideas were refuted months ago? (sorry, couldn't resist replying with a FD-style question...)

But you didn't refute anything, now or months ago.

You just claimed "real jobs"  are private sector jobs, and discount the value of work which the local community wants done outside of the market economy.   

Refuted months ago AND above...



Title: Re: We Need A Increase In The Minimum Wage
Post by thegreatdivide on May 20th, 2024 at 6:48pm

Frank wrote on May 20th, 2024 at 6:42pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 20th, 2024 at 6:28pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 18th, 2024 at 6:40pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 18th, 2024 at 2:28pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 18th, 2024 at 1:58pm:
We need a massive crackdown on costs of living and working for the majority....


Any ideas?


Refuted months ago.....


Your ideas were refuted months ago? (sorry, couldn't resist replying with a FD-style question...)

But you didn't refute anything, now or months ago.

You just claimed "real jobs"  are private sector jobs, and discount the value of work which the local community wants done outside of the market economy.   

Refuted months ago AND above...


On the contrary, you didn't refute anything. 

What part of "the value of work the community wants done" don't you understand?


""Give a man a fish (welfare) and he can feed himself for a day.

Teach a man how to fish (ie, how to  engage paid work) and he will feed himself for a life-time."

Title: Re: We Need A Increase In The Minimum Wage
Post by Bobby. on May 20th, 2024 at 7:05pm

Frank wrote on May 18th, 2024 at 2:42pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 18th, 2024 at 1:58pm:
We need a massive crackdown on costs of living and working for the majority....



Sack Bowen, ditch the net zero lunacy, cut immigration by trolley pushers, uber drivers and food delivery "students", cut government spending and income tax for workers,  scrap all exemptions from the GST.

For starters.



Get proper tax from our gas:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-nNpSaLxO8

Title: Re: We Need A Increase In The Minimum Wage
Post by Frank on May 20th, 2024 at 7:25pm

thegreatdivide wrote on May 20th, 2024 at 6:48pm:

Frank wrote on May 20th, 2024 at 6:42pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 20th, 2024 at 6:28pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 18th, 2024 at 6:40pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 18th, 2024 at 2:28pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 18th, 2024 at 1:58pm:
We need a massive crackdown on costs of living and working for the majority....


Any ideas?


Refuted months ago.....


Your ideas were refuted months ago? (sorry, couldn't resist replying with a FD-style question...)

But you didn't refute anything, now or months ago.

You just claimed "real jobs"  are private sector jobs, and discount the value of work which the local community wants done outside of the market economy.   

Refuted months ago AND above...


On the contrary, you didn't refute anything. 

What part of "the value of work the community wants done" don't you understand?


""Give a man a fish (welfare) and he can feed himself for a day.

Teach a man how to fish (ie, how to  engage paid work) and he will feed himself for a life-time."

TAFE, innit.



Title: Re: We Need A Increase In The Minimum Wage
Post by Gordon on May 20th, 2024 at 8:15pm
My daughter gets about $35/hr when she works school holidays

Title: Re: We Need A Increase In The Minimum Wage
Post by Frank on May 20th, 2024 at 9:43pm
Invest in coal, gas, oil, uranium, iron ore, airports.


Title: Re: We Need A Increase In The Minimum Wage
Post by Baronvonrort on May 20th, 2024 at 10:37pm
The minimum wage is already too high. How much is unskilled labor really worth?

Economist Milton Friedman on minimum wage
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ca8Z__o52sk

Title: Re: We Need A Increase In The Minimum Wage
Post by Captain Nemo on May 20th, 2024 at 10:44pm

whiteknight wrote on May 20th, 2024 at 5:48pm:
This is why we need an increase in the minimum wage.  So people can catch up to inflation.   :(


So the price of goods and services go up to pay for the wage rise ... then a demand for higher wages follows to pay for the price increases ... then the prices go up to pay for the wage rise ...

Off we go on the inflationary spiral.

Title: Re: We Need A Increase In The Minimum Wage
Post by Daves2017 on May 21st, 2024 at 1:01am

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 18th, 2024 at 1:58pm:
We need a massive crackdown on costs of living and working for the majority....


Exactly right!!

We don’t need more money.

We need our taxes spent for us rather than on failing businesses!

We need public servants sacked and held accountable for the millions they waste on poor decisions rather than be protected!

We also need a government with a backbone to to crack down on companies ripping us all off!

Never going to happen so long as brown paper bags full of coin are constantly delivered to our politicians!

Title: Re: We Need A Increase In The Minimum Wage
Post by Daves2017 on May 21st, 2024 at 1:11am

thegreatdivide wrote on May 18th, 2024 at 2:28pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 18th, 2024 at 1:58pm:
We need a massive crackdown on costs of living and working for the majority....


Any ideas?


Id suggest honestly but it’s a almost a election year so I’m dreaming.

From my experience small business is completely going under.

Australia is broken from the covid 19 costs to taxpayers.

I have always thought I’d like visiting Argentina.

Now I can set at home and wait to see the same society.

The thing I find funny, ha, ha, is our politicians have voted themselves some the highest wages o the world!

While at the same time failing our people totally?

Title: Re: We Need A Increase In The Minimum Wage
Post by thegreatdivide on May 21st, 2024 at 10:47am

Frank wrote on May 20th, 2024 at 7:25pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 20th, 2024 at 6:48pm:

Frank wrote on May 20th, 2024 at 6:42pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 20th, 2024 at 6:28pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 18th, 2024 at 6:40pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 18th, 2024 at 2:28pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 18th, 2024 at 1:58pm:
We need a massive crackdown on costs of living and working for the majority....


Any ideas?


Refuted months ago.....


Your ideas were refuted months ago? (sorry, couldn't resist replying with a FD-style question...)

But you didn't refute anything, now or months ago.

You just claimed "real jobs"  are private sector jobs, and discount the value of work which the local community wants done outside of the market economy.   

Refuted months ago AND above...


On the contrary, you didn't refute anything. 

What part of "the value of work the community wants done" don't you understand?


""Give a man a fish (welfare) and he can feed himself for a day.

Teach a man how to fish (ie, how to  engage paid work) and he will feed himself for a life-time."

TAFE, innit.


TAFE is certainly part of the solution. It was defunded by small government/low tax ideology, but at last Labor is funding it again.

You low tax ideologues think low taxes mean greater productivity, but the TAFE experience over the last decade and more has shown otherwise.

Bobby mentioned taxing fossil fuels, another source of government revenue.   

Title: Re: We Need A Increase In The Minimum Wage
Post by Frank on May 25th, 2024 at 9:30pm

thegreatdivide wrote on May 20th, 2024 at 6:19pm:

aquascoot wrote on May 18th, 2024 at 5:53pm:

Frank wrote on May 18th, 2024 at 2:42pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 18th, 2024 at 1:58pm:
We need a massive crackdown on costs of living and working for the majority....



Sack Bowen, ditch the net zero lunacy, cut immigration by trolley pushers, uber drivers and food delivery "students", cut government spending and income tax for workers,  scrap all exemptions from the GST.

For starters.


well said frank  :)


Nah, you are all low tax, personal responsibility losers.

The happiest peple in  the world live under high-tax regimes.

https://www.financialexpress.com/policy/economy-those-who-pay-higher-tax-are-happier-dont-believe-us-heres-the-proof-1101148/

World Happiness Report 2018: Those who pay higher tax are happier! Don’t believe us, here’s the proof

Eminent social-scientist Benjamin Radcliff has drawn a parallel between happiness and tax rates, saying that “higher levels of taxation suggest higher levels of satisfaction with life”, and hence more happiness. And there are other social scientists too who contend the same.16 Mar 2018

Meanwhile, heterodox economists are offering a zero tax  (which you crave for),  zero interest rate, zero inflation, full employment economy, but you need to do your own research on that topic.

That is as stupid as you are, parrot.



Title: Re: We Need A Increase In The Minimum Wage
Post by thegreatdivide on May 26th, 2024 at 5:36pm

Frank wrote on May 25th, 2024 at 9:30pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 20th, 2024 at 6:19pm:

aquascoot wrote on May 18th, 2024 at 5:53pm:

Frank wrote on May 18th, 2024 at 2:42pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 18th, 2024 at 1:58pm:
We need a massive crackdown on costs of living and working for the majority....



Sack Bowen, ditch the net zero lunacy, cut immigration by trolley pushers, uber drivers and food delivery "students", cut government spending and income tax for workers,  scrap all exemptions from the GST.

For starters.


well said frank  :)


Nah, you are all low tax, personal responsibility losers.

The happiest peple in  the world live under high-tax regimes.

https://www.financialexpress.com/policy/economy-those-who-pay-higher-tax-are-happier-dont-believe-us-heres-the-proof-1101148/

World Happiness Report 2018: Those who pay higher tax are happier! Don’t believe us, here’s the proof

Eminent social-scientist Benjamin Radcliff has drawn a parallel between happiness and tax rates, saying that “higher levels of taxation suggest higher levels of satisfaction with life”, and hence more happiness. And there are other social scientists too who contend the same.16 Mar 2018

Meanwhile, heterodox economists are offering a zero tax  (which you crave for),  zero interest rate, zero inflation, full employment economy, but you need to do your own research on that topic.

That is as stupid as you are, parrot.


Er...in a choice beteween Rafcliffe and you...no contest.

And a choice between orthodox Neoclassical/Friedmanite economists,  and heterodox economists who know poverty is a political choice - again no contest.

Title: Re: We Need A Increase In The Minimum Wage
Post by thegreatdivide on May 26th, 2024 at 5:39pm

Baronvonrort wrote on May 20th, 2024 at 10:37pm:
The minimum wage is already too high. How much is unskilled labor really worth?

Economist Milton Friedman on minimum wage
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ca8Z__o52sk


Oh no  - not Milton Friedman's obsolete ideas - still beloved by flat-earth mainstrean economists - based on fixed exchange rates and the gold standard.

Title: Re: We Need A Increase In The Minimum Wage
Post by Frank on May 26th, 2024 at 5:48pm

thegreatdivide wrote on May 26th, 2024 at 5:36pm:

Frank wrote on May 25th, 2024 at 9:30pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 20th, 2024 at 6:19pm:

aquascoot wrote on May 18th, 2024 at 5:53pm:

Frank wrote on May 18th, 2024 at 2:42pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 18th, 2024 at 1:58pm:
We need a massive crackdown on costs of living and working for the majority....



Sack Bowen, ditch the net zero lunacy, cut immigration by trolley pushers, uber drivers and food delivery "students", cut government spending and income tax for workers,  scrap all exemptions from the GST.

For starters.


well said frank  :)


Nah, you are all low tax, personal responsibility losers.

The happiest peple in  the world live under high-tax regimes.

https://www.financialexpress.com/policy/economy-those-who-pay-higher-tax-are-happier-dont-believe-us-heres-the-proof-1101148/

World Happiness Report 2018: Those who pay higher tax are happier! Don’t believe us, here’s the proof

Eminent social-scientist Benjamin Radcliff has drawn a parallel between happiness and tax rates, saying that “higher levels of taxation suggest higher levels of satisfaction with life”, and hence more happiness. And there are other social scientists too who contend the same.16 Mar 2018

Meanwhile, heterodox economists are offering a zero tax  (which you crave for),  zero interest rate, zero inflation, full employment economy, but you need to do your own research on that topic.

That is as stupid as you are, parrot.


Er...in a choice beteween Rafcliffe and you...no contest.

And a choice between orthodox Neoclassical/Friedmanite economists,  and heterodox economists who know poverty is a political choice - again no contest.

If you have quoted radcliffe accurately and fully - "higher levels of taxation suggest higher levels of satisfaction with life” - then he is as ignorant and stupid as you are.

High taxation in itself is poison. If you look at history, for the last 60 or 2000 years, high taxation without consent has invariably led to revolt. And consent is by individuals forming a polity.
Individuals will consent only if they consent to the way the tax is spent.  And they will do this if they trust each other and their elected government. And trust comes from cohesion and solidarity.
Multiculti diversity destroys that solidarity. Governments driven by ideology not endorsed by the electorate also destroy trust and solidarity.

It would be an interesting project to investigate the nationality of account holders in the Bahamas, Caymans, and other tax heavens. I would hazard a guess to say that people from unfairly high taxing countries are the bulk. 


Title: Re: We Need A Increase In The Minimum Wage
Post by thegreatdivide on May 26th, 2024 at 6:29pm

Frank wrote on May 26th, 2024 at 5:48pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 26th, 2024 at 5:36pm:

Frank wrote on May 25th, 2024 at 9:30pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 20th, 2024 at 6:19pm:

aquascoot wrote on May 18th, 2024 at 5:53pm:

Frank wrote on May 18th, 2024 at 2:42pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 18th, 2024 at 1:58pm:
We need a massive crackdown on costs of living and working for the majority....



Sack Bowen, ditch the net zero lunacy, cut immigration by trolley pushers, uber drivers and food delivery "students", cut government spending and income tax for workers,  scrap all exemptions from the GST.

For starters.


well said frank  :)


Nah, you are all low tax, personal responsibility losers.

The happiest peple in  the world live under high-tax regimes.

https://www.financialexpress.com/policy/economy-those-who-pay-higher-tax-are-happier-dont-believe-us-heres-the-proof-1101148/

World Happiness Report 2018: Those who pay higher tax are happier! Don’t believe us, here’s the proof

Eminent social-scientist Benjamin Radcliff has drawn a parallel between happiness and tax rates, saying that “higher levels of taxation suggest higher levels of satisfaction with life”, and hence more happiness. And there are other social scientists too who contend the same.16 Mar 2018

Meanwhile, heterodox economists are offering a zero tax  (which you crave for),  zero interest rate, zero inflation, full employment economy, but you need to do your own research on that topic.

That is as stupid as you are, parrot.


Er...in a choice beteween Rafcliffe and you...no contest.

And a choice between orthodox Neoclassical/Friedmanite economists,  and heterodox economists who know poverty is a political choice - again no contest.

If you have quoted radcliffe accurately and fully - "higher levels of taxation suggest higher levels of satisfaction with life” - then he is as ignorant and stupid as you are.


"Ignorant and stupid, even though he is a tertiary-level researcher examing all the relevant statistics?


Quote:
High taxation in itself is poison. If you look at history, for the last 60 or 2000 years, high taxation without consent has invariably led to revolt. And consent is by individuals forming a polity.
Individuals will consent only if they consent to the way the tax is spent.  And they will do this if they trust each other and their elected government. And trust comes from cohesion and solidarity.


Correct: and Radcliffe examined  tax levels and happiness in the consenting Skandy countries who didn't folow Thatcher's disastrous low-tax ideology.


Quote:
Multiculti diversity destroys that solidarity. Governments driven by ideology not endorsed by the electorate also destroy trust and solidarity.[/quotte]

The Skandy countries were highly homogeneous before the refugees crises of the last 2-3 decades. 

[quote]It would be an interesting project to investigate the nationality of account holders in the Bahamas, Caymans, and other tax heavens. I would hazard a guess to say that people from unfairly high taxing countries are the bulk. 


No;  highly-paid people in poor countries as well as rich countries are all driven by the same self-interest.

Title: Re: We Need A Increase In The Minimum Wage
Post by Laugh till you cry on May 26th, 2024 at 6:40pm
Is $1,000 a week enough?

Title: Re: We Need A Increase In The Minimum Wage
Post by thegreatdivide on May 29th, 2024 at 5:21pm

Laugh till you cry wrote on May 26th, 2024 at 6:40pm:
Is $1,000 a week enough?


Good question.

Some people are calling for an upper limit.

...and Musk is facing  some pushback from Tesla shareholders re Musk asking for $45 billion in "compensation"  this year   (the largest on record for any CEO).

Title: Re: We Need A Increase In The Minimum Wage
Post by Frank on May 29th, 2024 at 6:39pm
Abolish the minimum wage. Stop large scale immigration. We don't need hordes of uber drivers, petrol station attendants, baristas.  Phase out the age pension completely over 30 years.

Rethink population and family policy.  Pay for your children's job instead importing some bare-parsed Nepalese skinny.

The welfare state idea of the 19th century is not applicable anymore.


Title: Re: We Need A Increase In The Minimum Wage
Post by Laugh till you cry on May 29th, 2024 at 6:56pm

Frank wrote on May 29th, 2024 at 6:39pm:
Abolish the minimum wage. Stop large scale immigration. We don't need hordes of uber drivers, petrol station attendants, baristas.  Phase out the age pension completely over 30 years.

Rethink population and family policy.  Pay for your children's job instead importing some bare-parsed Nepalese skinny.

The welfare state idea of the 19th century is not applicable anymore.


That's why Frank is proposing regressing back to the 17th century.

In that economic environment Frank would have been a foot servant.

Title: Re: We Need A Increase In The Minimum Wage
Post by whiteknight on May 29th, 2024 at 6:59pm
Did someone say abolish the minimum wage?.  The minimum wage is there for a reason. No the minimum wage should not be abolished.   :(

Title: Re: We Need A Increase In The Minimum Wage
Post by Frank on May 29th, 2024 at 8:14pm
The minimum wage prices people out of employment.



Title: Re: We Need A Increase In The Minimum Wage
Post by whiteknight on May 29th, 2024 at 8:16pm
Some employers will not be happy until they get people to work for nothing.   :(

Title: Re: We Need A Increase In The Minimum Wage
Post by Frank on May 29th, 2024 at 8:25pm

whiteknight wrote on May 29th, 2024 at 8:16pm:
Some employers will not be happy until they get people to work for nothing.   :(

If they can get people to work for nothing - why not? I would work for nothing, thousands of volunteers do.

You are just a calculating, money-grubbing greedy mercantile bozo, all about money. Gimme, gimme, gimme.

Title: Re: We Need A Increase In The Minimum Wage
Post by whiteknight on May 29th, 2024 at 8:33pm
The minimum wage is nothing more than what a employer has to pay a worker.  Now if you want to pay more than that, then yes please by all means pay more than the minimum wage.   :)

Title: Re: We Need A Increase In The Minimum Wage
Post by Frank on May 29th, 2024 at 8:41pm
If you were employing useless shites who must be paid a minimum wage no matter how useless they are - would you take them on?

No.

Take it from there.



Title: Re: We Need A Increase In The Minimum Wage
Post by whiteknight on May 29th, 2024 at 8:45pm
No one should have to work below the minimum wage.   :(    

Title: Re: We Need A Increase In The Minimum Wage
Post by Frank on May 29th, 2024 at 8:51pm
:D
whiteknight wrote on May 29th, 2024 at 8:45pm:
No one should have to work below the minimum wage.   :(    

:D ;) :D

What's  the .... minimum... They should work for??



What IS the minimum people should work for if nobody should work for a minimum???? 


How OLD are you? 300?  :D :D ;D You are a ridiculous old duffer.


Title: Re: We Need A Increase In The Minimum Wage
Post by whiteknight on May 29th, 2024 at 9:28pm
$23.23 per hour   :-?
What is the minimum wage in Australia? As of 1 July 2023, the minimum wage is $23.23 per hour, or $882.80 per 38-hour week. This is an 8.6% increase in the national minimum wage. This increase applied from the first full pay period starting on or after 1 July 2023.

Title: Re: We Need A Increase In The Minimum Wage
Post by Frank on May 29th, 2024 at 9:31pm

whiteknight wrote on May 29th, 2024 at 9:28pm:
$23.23 per hour   :-?
What is the minimum wage in Australia? As of 1 July 2023, the minimum wage is $23.23 per hour, or $882.80 per 38-hour week. This is an 8.6% increase in the national minimum wage. This increase applied from the first full pay period starting on or after 1 July 2023.

Some people are not worth $23 an hour.
So your taxes are paying for them not to work.
Mad.

Abolish minimum wage. It's a stupid idea.


Title: Re: We Need A Increase In The Minimum Wage
Post by whiteknight on May 30th, 2024 at 4:17am
Some bosses are not worth working for.   :(

Title: Re: We Need A Increase In The Minimum Wage
Post by aquascoot on May 30th, 2024 at 5:23am
you cant get rich by taking,

you have to give first

jesus said it

Title: Re: We Need A Increase In The Minimum Wage
Post by whiteknight on May 30th, 2024 at 7:40am
You cant get rich working for peanuts.   :(

Title: Re: We Need A Increase In The Minimum Wage
Post by thegreatdivide on May 30th, 2024 at 1:41pm

Frank wrote on May 29th, 2024 at 8:25pm:

whiteknight wrote on May 29th, 2024 at 8:16pm:
Some employers will not be happy until they get people to work for nothing.   :(

If they can get people to work for nothing - why not?


They can't, because people need money to survive.  The govt. has set the minimum needed for people to survive in dignity. 


Quote:
I would work for nothing...


Volunteering is for people who are financially secure.


Quote:
You are just a calculating, money-grubbing greedy mercantile bozo, all about money. Gimme, gimme, gimme.


An amazing example of conservative reverse-thinking

YOU - and Musk -  are all about money for yourselves.

 

Title: Re: We Need A Increase In The Minimum Wage
Post by aquascoot on May 30th, 2024 at 2:36pm

thegreatdivide wrote on May 30th, 2024 at 1:41pm:

Frank wrote on May 29th, 2024 at 8:25pm:

whiteknight wrote on May 29th, 2024 at 8:16pm:
Some employers will not be happy until they get people to work for nothing.   :(

If they can get people to work for nothing - why not?


They can't, because people need money to survive.  The govt. has set the minimum needed for people to survive in dignity. 


Quote:
I would work for nothing...


Volunteering is for people who are financially secure.

[quote]You are just a calculating, money-grubbing greedy mercantile bozo, all about money. Gimme, gimme, gimme.


An amazing example of conservative reverse-thinking

YOU - and Musk -  are all about money for yourselves.

 
[/quote]


terrible advice


imagine you are an unemplyed person in a regional town with few skills

you can be a cry baby and sit around in self pity

or

you can borrow a broom and a bottle of "spray and wipe" and go to the main street and walk up and down sweeping the door ways of businesses and cleaning their windows as a volunteer

i can GAURANTEE  you that a small business owner or many small business owners will come out and enquire what you are doing

with a beaming smile and a booming voice , you announce that you want to CONTRIBUTE

and businesses are DESPERATE for people with this right attitude

you will be on a payroll within a week

now you are off to the races

you study the business and learn

you make yourself indispensable

the owner puts you on as a manager


it is SO EASY to make cash in australia but you have to understand the principle of "give before you recieve" .

no one wants to risk taking on an employee who is not joyful and beaming

if you want to construct a narrative of scarcity and think you have to be a parasite to survive, be my guest. i gaurantee you will be living in scarcity for perpetuity

Title: Re: We Need A Increase In The Minimum Wage
Post by Frank on May 31st, 2024 at 11:20am

aquascoot wrote on May 30th, 2024 at 2:36pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 30th, 2024 at 1:41pm:

Frank wrote on May 29th, 2024 at 8:25pm:

whiteknight wrote on May 29th, 2024 at 8:16pm:
Some employers will not be happy until they get people to work for nothing.   :(

If they can get people to work for nothing - why not?


They can't, because people need money to survive.  The govt. has set the minimum needed for people to survive in dignity. 


Quote:
I would work for nothing...


Volunteering is for people who are financially secure.

[quote]You are just a calculating, money-grubbing greedy mercantile bozo, all about money. Gimme, gimme, gimme.


An amazing example of conservative reverse-thinking

YOU - and Musk -  are all about money for yourselves.

 



terrible advice


imagine you are an unemplyed person in a regional town with few skills

you can be a cry baby and sit around in self pity

or

you can borrow a broom and a bottle of "spray and wipe" and go to the main street and walk up and down sweeping the door ways of businesses and cleaning their windows as a volunteer

i can GAURANTEE  you that a small business owner or many small business owners will come out and enquire what you are doing

with a beaming smile and a booming voice , you announce that you want to CONTRIBUTE

and businesses are DESPERATE for people with this right attitude

you will be on a payroll within a week

now you are off to the races

you study the business and learn

you make yourself indispensable

the owner puts you on as a manager


it is SO EASY to make cash in australia but you have to understand the principle of "give before you recieve" .

no one wants to risk taking on an employee who is not joyful and beaming

if you want to construct a narrative of scarcity and think you have to be a parasite to survive, be my guest. i gaurantee you will be living in scarcity for perpetuity [/quote]
Just so.

But it requires a mind and an outlook that is totally antithetical to the one that sees the world as a giant machine of continuous oppression, trickery, exploitation, attack of which one is a constant victim one way or another, protected only by a benevolent, all-knowing, all-powerful god government.


Title: Re: We Need A Increase In The Minimum Wage
Post by Frank on May 31st, 2024 at 11:21am

aquascoot wrote on May 30th, 2024 at 2:36pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 30th, 2024 at 1:41pm:

Frank wrote on May 29th, 2024 at 8:25pm:

whiteknight wrote on May 29th, 2024 at 8:16pm:
Some employers will not be happy until they get people to work for nothing.   :(

If they can get people to work for nothing - why not?


They can't, because people need money to survive.  The govt. has set the minimum needed for people to survive in dignity. 


Quote:
I would work for nothing...


Volunteering is for people who are financially secure.

[quote]You are just a calculating, money-grubbing greedy mercantile bozo, all about money. Gimme, gimme, gimme.


An amazing example of conservative reverse-thinking

YOU - and Musk -  are all about money for yourselves.

 



terrible advice


imagine you are an unemplyed person in a regional town with few skills

you can be a cry baby and sit around in self pity

or

you can borrow a broom and a bottle of "spray and wipe" and go to the main street and walk up and down sweeping the door ways of businesses and cleaning their windows as a volunteer

i can GAURANTEE  you that a small business owner or many small business owners will come out and enquire what you are doing

with a beaming smile and a booming voice , you announce that you want to CONTRIBUTE

and businesses are DESPERATE for people with this right attitude

you will be on a payroll within a week

now you are off to the races

you study the business and learn

you make yourself indispensable

the owner puts you on as a manager


it is SO EASY to make cash in australia but you have to understand the principle of "give before you recieve" .

no one wants to risk taking on an employee who is not joyful and beaming

if you want to construct a narrative of scarcity and think you have to be a parasite to survive, be my guest. i gaurantee you will be living in scarcity for perpetuity [/quote]
Just so.

But it requires a mind and an outlook that is totally antithetical to the one that sees the world as a giant machine of continuous oppression, trickery, exploitation, attack of which one is a constant victim one way or another, protected only by a benevolent, all-knowing, all-powerful god government.


Title: Re: We Need A Increase In The Minimum Wage
Post by thegreatdivide on May 31st, 2024 at 2:01pm

aquascoot wrote on May 30th, 2024 at 2:36pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 30th, 2024 at 1:41pm:

Frank wrote on May 29th, 2024 at 8:25pm:

whiteknight wrote on May 29th, 2024 at 8:16pm:
Some employers will not be happy until they get people to work for nothing.   :(

If they can get people to work for nothing - why not?


They can't, because people need money to survive.  The govt. has set the minimum needed for people to survive in dignity. 


Quote:
I would work for nothing...


Volunteering is for people who are financially secure.

[quote]You are just a calculating, money-grubbing greedy mercantile bozo, all about money. Gimme, gimme, gimme.


An amazing example of conservative reverse-thinking

YOU - and Musk -  are all about money for yourselves.


terrible advice[/quote] 

What "advice" did I give? I said people need money to survive.


Quote:
imagine you are an unemplyed person in a regional town with few skills

you can be a cry baby and sit around in self pity

or

you can borrow a broom and a bottle of "spray and wipe" and go to the main street and walk up and down sweeping the door ways of businesses and cleaning their windows as a volunteer

i can GAURANTEE  you that a small business owner or many small business owners will come out and enquire what you are doing

with a beaming smile and a booming voice , you announce that you want to CONTRIBUTE

and businesses are DESPERATE for people with this right attitude


Your error; many small businesses in regional towns are closing down because would-be customers are crushed by the cost of living crisis and can't spend money. 


Quote:
you will be on a payroll within a week

now you are off to the races

you study the business and learn

you make yourself indispensable

the owner puts you on as a manager


Maybe, but maybe not - as pointed out above.

Only the government can guarantee employment for everyone.


Quote:
it is SO EASY to make cash in australia but you have to understand the principle of "give before you recieve".


I see buskers and people selling 'The Big Issue" - they are brave people poorly rewarded by society.


Quote:
no one wants to risk taking on an employee who is not joyful and beaming


Exposing your error: it's not an emplyee's job to be 'joyful and beaming', nor is it everyone's nature. 


Quote:
if you want to construct a narrative of scarcity and think you have to be a parasite to survive, be my guest. i gaurantee you will be living in scarcity for perpetuity


No, "scarcity"  is a construct of YOUR obsolete neoclassical economics, today China is accused of "over-capacity".

I support a Job Guarantee, not the enforced "parasitism" of welfare dependency.

https://pavlina-tcherneva.net/the-case-for-a-job-guarantee/

The Case for a Job Guarantee

One of the most enduring ideas in economics is that unemployment is both unavoidable and necessary for the smooth functioning of the economy. This assumption has provided cover for the devastating social and economic costs of job insecurity. It is also false.

   

Title: Re: We Need A Increase In The Minimum Wage
Post by aquascoot on May 31st, 2024 at 3:30pm

thegreatdivide wrote on May 31st, 2024 at 2:01pm:

aquascoot wrote on May 30th, 2024 at 2:36pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 30th, 2024 at 1:41pm:

Frank wrote on May 29th, 2024 at 8:25pm:

whiteknight wrote on May 29th, 2024 at 8:16pm:
Some employers will not be happy until they get people to work for nothing.   :(

If they can get people to work for nothing - why not?


They can't, because people need money to survive.  The govt. has set the minimum needed for people to survive in dignity. 


Quote:
I would work for nothing...


Volunteering is for people who are financially secure.

[quote]You are just a calculating, money-grubbing greedy mercantile bozo, all about money. Gimme, gimme, gimme.


An amazing example of conservative reverse-thinking

YOU - and Musk -  are all about money for yourselves.


terrible advice
 

What "advice" did I give? I said people need money to survive.


Quote:
imagine you are an unemplyed person in a regional town with few skills

you can be a cry baby and sit around in self pity

or

you can borrow a broom and a bottle of "spray and wipe" and go to the main street and walk up and down sweeping the door ways of businesses and cleaning their windows as a volunteer

i can GAURANTEE  you that a small business owner or many small business owners will come out and enquire what you are doing

with a beaming smile and a booming voice , you announce that you want to CONTRIBUTE

and businesses are DESPERATE for people with this right attitude


Your error; many small businesses in regional towns are closing down because would-be customers are crushed by the cost of living crisis and can't spend money. 


Quote:
you will be on a payroll within a week

now you are off to the races

you study the business and learn

you make yourself indispensable

the owner puts you on as a manager


Maybe, but maybe not - as pointed out above.

Only the government can guarantee employment for everyone.


Quote:
it is SO EASY to make cash in australia but you have to understand the principle of "give before you recieve".


I see buskers and people selling 'The Big Issue" - they are brave people poorly rewarded by society.


Quote:
no one wants to risk taking on an employee who is not joyful and beaming


Exposing your error: it's not an emplyee's job to be 'joyful and beaming', nor is it everyone's nature. 


Quote:
if you want to construct a narrative of scarcity and think you have to be a parasite to survive, be my guest. i gaurantee you will be living in scarcity for perpetuity


No, "scarcity"  is a construct of YOUR obsolete neoclassical economics, today China is accused of "over-capacity".

I support a Job Guarantee, not the enforced "parasitism" of welfare dependency.

https://pavlina-tcherneva.net/the-case-for-a-job-guarantee/

The Case for a Job Guarantee

One of the most enduring ideas in economics is that unemployment is both unavoidable and necessary for the smooth functioning of the economy. This assumption has provided cover for the devastating social and economic costs of job insecurity. It is also false.

   
[/quote]


only the government can do that?

you are certifiable

Title: Re: We Need A Increase In The Minimum Wage
Post by aquascoot on May 31st, 2024 at 3:36pm

Frank wrote on May 31st, 2024 at 11:21am:

aquascoot wrote on May 30th, 2024 at 2:36pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 30th, 2024 at 1:41pm:

Frank wrote on May 29th, 2024 at 8:25pm:

whiteknight wrote on May 29th, 2024 at 8:16pm:
Some employers will not be happy until they get people to work for nothing.   :(

If they can get people to work for nothing - why not?


They can't, because people need money to survive.  The govt. has set the minimum needed for people to survive in dignity. 


Quote:
I would work for nothing...


Volunteering is for people who are financially secure.

[quote]You are just a calculating, money-grubbing greedy mercantile bozo, all about money. Gimme, gimme, gimme.


An amazing example of conservative reverse-thinking

YOU - and Musk -  are all about money for yourselves.

 



terrible advice


imagine you are an unemplyed person in a regional town with few skills

you can be a cry baby and sit around in self pity

or

you can borrow a broom and a bottle of "spray and wipe" and go to the main street and walk up and down sweeping the door ways of businesses and cleaning their windows as a volunteer

i can GAURANTEE  you that a small business owner or many small business owners will come out and enquire what you are doing

with a beaming smile and a booming voice , you announce that you want to CONTRIBUTE

and businesses are DESPERATE for people with this right attitude

you will be on a payroll within a week

now you are off to the races

you study the business and learn

you make yourself indispensable

the owner puts you on as a manager


it is SO EASY to make cash in australia but you have to understand the principle of "give before you recieve" .

no one wants to risk taking on an employee who is not joyful and beaming

if you want to construct a narrative of scarcity and think you have to be a parasite to survive, be my guest. i gaurantee you will be living in scarcity for perpetuity

Just so.

But it requires a mind and an outlook that is totally antithetical to the one that sees the world as a giant machine of continuous oppression, trickery, exploitation, attack of which one is a constant victim one way or another, protected only by a benevolent, all-knowing, all-powerful god government.

[/quote]

every self help master from steven covey to joe rohn to dan kennedy to ekhardt tolle to gary v says the same thing

you cannot improve , until you drop your victim hood.

the truth is most people dont want to improve

they want to remain eternal infants, unchallenged, fed and kept safe

they see every challenge as victimising them

there is zero growth, there is only stagnation and scarcity
:'( :'( :'(

Title: Re: We Need A Increase In The Minimum Wage
Post by Frank on May 31st, 2024 at 8:48pm
ANY scheme that says government is the answer to the questions of the universal human condition is a lie. And they are INSISTENT lies. They insist because they are ideological.



Title: Re: We Need A Increase In The Minimum Wage
Post by thegreatdivide on Jun 1st, 2024 at 11:59am

aquascoot wrote on May 31st, 2024 at 3:30pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 31st, 2024 at 2:01pm:

aquascoot wrote on May 30th, 2024 at 2:36pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 30th, 2024 at 1:41pm:

Frank wrote on May 29th, 2024 at 8:25pm:

whiteknight wrote on May 29th, 2024 at 8:16pm:
Some employers will not be happy until they get people to work for nothing.   :(

If they can get people to work for nothing - why not?


They can't, because people need money to survive.  The govt. has set the minimum needed for people to survive in dignity. 


Quote:
I would work for nothing...


Volunteering is for people who are financially secure.

[quote]You are just a calculating, money-grubbing greedy mercantile bozo, all about money. Gimme, gimme, gimme.


An amazing example of conservative reverse-thinking

YOU - and Musk -  are all about money for yourselves.


terrible advice
 

What "advice" did I give? I said people need money to survive.

[quote]imagine you are an unemplyed person in a regional town with few skills

you can be a cry baby and sit around in self pity

or

you can borrow a broom and a bottle of "spray and wipe" and go to the main street and walk up and down sweeping the door ways of businesses and cleaning their windows as a volunteer

i can GAURANTEE  you that a small business owner or many small business owners will come out and enquire what you are doing

with a beaming smile and a booming voice , you announce that you want to CONTRIBUTE

and businesses are DESPERATE for people with this right attitude


Your error; many small businesses in regional towns are closing down because would-be customers are crushed by the cost of living crisis and can't spend money. 


Quote:
you will be on a payroll within a week

now you are off to the races

you study the business and learn

you make yourself indispensable

the owner puts you on as a manager


Maybe, but maybe not - as pointed out above.

Only the government can guarantee employment for everyone.


Quote:
it is SO EASY to make cash in australia but you have to understand the principle of "give before you recieve".


I see buskers and people selling 'The Big Issue" - they are brave people poorly rewarded by society.


Quote:
no one wants to risk taking on an employee who is not joyful and beaming


Exposing your error: it's not an emplyee's job to be 'joyful and beaming', nor is it everyone's nature. 


Quote:
if you want to construct a narrative of scarcity and think you have to be a parasite to survive, be my guest. i gaurantee you will be living in scarcity for perpetuity


No, "scarcity"  is a construct of YOUR obsolete neoclassical economics, today China is accused of "over-capacity".

I support a Job Guarantee, not the enforced "parasitism" of welfare dependency.

https://pavlina-tcherneva.net/the-case-for-a-job-guarantee/

The Case for a Job Guarantee

One of the most enduring ideas in economics is that unemployment is both unavoidable and necessary for the smooth functioning of the economy. This assumption has provided cover for the devastating social and economic costs of job insecurity. It is also false.

   
[/quote]


only the government can do that?[/quote]

Basic common sense  (see the highlighted) ; each individual can only manage his own participation in the economy as best he can with no guarantee of success,  whereas only the government  can implement a Job Guarantee (as defined in the link), as an alternative to lifting interest rates to slow the economy.


Quote:
you are certifiable


So says our resident sink or swim/survival of the fittest ideologue. Funny about that.




Title: Re: We Need A Increase In The Minimum Wage
Post by thegreatdivide on Jun 1st, 2024 at 12:10pm

Frank wrote on May 31st, 2024 at 8:48pm:
ANY scheme that says government is the answer to the questions of the universal human condition is a lie. And they are INSISTENT lies. They insist because they are ideological.


Another neoclassical macro-economic ignoramus chimes in.

The topic is the minimum wage, a sub-category of economics, NOT the "universal human condition" - whatever that obfuscation is, as cover to deny the eradication of entrenched poverty achievable by government which is not deluded by neoclassical 'scarcity' economics.




Title: Re: We Need A Increase In The Minimum Wage
Post by Frank on Jun 1st, 2024 at 12:27pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 1st, 2024 at 12:10pm:

Frank wrote on May 31st, 2024 at 8:48pm:
ANY scheme that says government is the answer to the questions of the universal human condition is a lie. And they are INSISTENT lies. They insist because they are ideological.


Another neoclassical macro-economic ignoramus chimes in.

The topic is the minimum wage, a sub-category of economics, NOT the "universal human condition" - whatever that obfuscation is, as cover to deny the eradication of entrenched poverty achievable by government which is not deluded by neoclassical 'scarcity' economics.

Mutual obligation will be reintroduced in a revived work-for-the-dole scheme that was intended to steer 40,000 Indigenous Australians towards meaningful activities but has been voluntary for the past three years.

The Australian understands only about one in four “participants” in the federal work-for-the dole scheme are doing any ­approved work or activities in ­exchange for fortnightly benefits.

Title: Re: We Need A Increase In The Minimum Wage
Post by thegreatdivide on Jun 1st, 2024 at 12:47pm

Frank wrote on Jun 1st, 2024 at 12:27pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 1st, 2024 at 12:10pm:

Frank wrote on May 31st, 2024 at 8:48pm:
ANY scheme that says government is the answer to the questions of the universal human condition is a lie. And they are INSISTENT lies. They insist because they are ideological.


Another neoclassical macro-economic ignoramus chimes in.

The topic is the minimum wage, a sub-category of economics, NOT the "universal human condition" - whatever that obfuscation is, as cover to deny the eradication of entrenched poverty achievable by government which is not deluded by neoclassical 'scarcity' economics.

Mutual obligation will be reintroduced in a revived work-for-the-dole scheme that was intended to steer 40,000 Indigenous Australians towards meaningful activities but has been voluntary for the past three years.

The Australian understands only about one in four “participants” in the federal work-for-the dole scheme are doing any ­approved work or activities in ­exchange for fortnightly benefits.


Yes, that's an incompetent government steeped in obsolete neoclassical "scarcity" economics (lauded by The Australian)  for you.



Title: Re: We Need A Increase In The Minimum Wage
Post by whiteknight on Jun 3rd, 2024 at 8:47am
2.6 million minimum and award wage earners set for July 1 pay boost   :)
With business and unions at loggerheads over the decision, the workplace umpire will hand down its annual pay verdict on Monday.


News.com.au
June 3, 2024

The pay packets of 2.6 million workers are in line for a boost on July 1, with the workplace umpire to release its annual wage decision on Monday morning.

The Fair Work Commission’s annual wage review, which affects minimum and award wage earners, or about one in five workers, is expected to hand down an increase of between 3.5 per cent and 4 per cent on the pay rate of $23.23 an hour.

In submissions to the Commission, peak employee representative, the ACTU, has advocated for an increase of 5 per cent, arguing workers squeezed by simmering price pressure deserve a hike to their pay.   :)

Meanwhile, the Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry has pushed for an increase of 2 per cent, which will likely amount to a real wage cut, which it argues reflects the increased cost pressures facing businesses, particularly smaller firms. 

Unions and business groups have been at odds over their pay claims to the annual wage review.

Mirroring its previous two interventions in the annual wage case, the Albanese government has submitted that Australia’s lowest paid workers “don’t go backwards”, in effect advocating for an increase of at least the rate of inflation, which is 3.6 per cent on most recent measures.

“We want to see strong and sustainable wages growth because we see this as part of the solution to the cost-of-living challenge, not part of the problem,” Treasurer Jim Chalmers said ahead of the decision.

“We’ve gone into bat for Australian workers, recommending the Commission ensure real wages for low-paid workers don’t go backwards.”

But with progress on lowering inflation stalling since December, economists warned that an increase in excess of 4 per cent could further complicate the Reserve Bank’s inflation fighting efforts which have already slugged borrowers with 13 rate hikes in the last 25 months.

“There is still a lingering risk of another rate hike of 25 basis points, especially if there is an upside surprise of the Fair Work decision on the minimum and award wage on Monday, and June quarter CPI,” UBS chief economist George Tharenou said.


Treasurer Jim Chalmers has pushed for an inflation-matching increase for low-paid workers.

That view was echoed by ACCI chief executive Andrew McKellar who said the Commission needed to account for still weak productivity growth alongside the stage three tax cuts and increase to the superannuation guarantee, both to commence on July 1.

“To go above that target band of inflation, we would need to see evidence that there was strong underlying productivity growth in the economy. This has not been the case at all,” Mr McKellar said.

“The commission should take account of the fact that there are significant measures to offset other cost of living pressures – that should be used as an opportunity to moderate wage inflation in the year ahead.”

However ACTU secretary Sally McManus rubbished suggestions that the Commission’s decision would feed through to broader wage increases across the economy, pointing to the easing in price pressures despite last year’s increase.

“I think it’s abundantly clear that that’s not the case; those two things are not connected,” Ms McManus said.

“We have a bargaining system and we have a system based on decisions made by the Fair Work Commission … so it’s not possible because they’re decoupled for there to be a wage price spiral.”

Some economists have warned an outsized wage increase could complicate the Reserve Bank’s efforts to tame stubborn inflationary pressures. 

In last year’s determination, the commission for the first time split the minimum and award pay rates, increasing the minimum wage to $23.23 an hour, up 8.6 per cent, while increasing award rates by a more modest 5.75 per cent.

The decision, which was the largest increase in more than a decade, fuelled concerns that it would stoke inflation, and hold interest rates higher for longer.

Title: Re: We Need A Increase In The Minimum Wage
Post by thegreatdivide on Jun 3rd, 2024 at 11:45am

whiteknight wrote on Jun 3rd, 2024 at 8:47am:
2.6 million minimum and award wage earners set for July 1 pay boost   :)
With business and unions at loggerheads over the decision, the workplace umpire will hand down its annual pay verdict on Monday.


News.com.au
June 3, 2024

The pay packets of 2.6 million workers are in line for a boost on July 1, with the workplace umpire to release its annual wage decision on Monday morning.

The Fair Work Commission’s annual wage review, which affects minimum and award wage earners, or about one in five workers, is expected to hand down an increase of between 3.5 per cent and 4 per cent on the pay rate of $23.23 an hour.

In submissions to the Commission, peak employee representative, the ACTU, has advocated for an increase of 5 per cent, arguing workers squeezed by simmering price pressure deserve a hike to their pay.   :)

Meanwhile, the Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry has pushed for an increase of 2 per cent, which will likely amount to a real wage cut, which it argues reflects the increased cost pressures facing businesses, particularly smaller firms. 

Unions and business groups have been at odds over their pay claims to the annual wage review.

Mirroring its previous two interventions in the annual wage case, the Albanese government has submitted that Australia’s lowest paid workers “don’t go backwards”, in effect advocating for an increase of at least the rate of inflation, which is 3.6 per cent on most recent measures.

“We want to see strong and sustainable wages growth because we see this as part of the solution to the cost-of-living challenge, not part of the problem,” Treasurer Jim Chalmers said ahead of the decision.

“We’ve gone into bat for Australian workers, recommending the Commission ensure real wages for low-paid workers don’t go backwards.”

But with progress on lowering inflation stalling since December, economists warned that an increase in excess of 4 per cent could further complicate the Reserve Bank’s inflation fighting efforts which have already slugged borrowers with 13 rate hikes in the last 25 months.

“There is still a lingering risk of another rate hike of 25 basis points, especially if there is an upside surprise of the Fair Work decision on the minimum and award wage on Monday, and June quarter CPI,” UBS chief economist George Tharenou said.


Treasurer Jim Chalmers has pushed for an inflation-matching increase for low-paid workers.

That view was echoed by ACCI chief executive Andrew McKellar who said the Commission needed to account for still weak productivity growth alongside the stage three tax cuts and increase to the superannuation guarantee, both to commence on July 1.

“To go above that target band of inflation, we would need to see evidence that there was strong underlying productivity growth in the economy. This has not been the case at all,” Mr McKellar said.

“The commission should take account of the fact that there are significant measures to offset other cost of living pressures – that should be used as an opportunity to moderate wage inflation in the year ahead.”

However ACTU secretary Sally McManus rubbished suggestions that the Commission’s decision would feed through to broader wage increases across the economy, pointing to the easing in price pressures despite last year’s increase.

“I think it’s abundantly clear that that’s not the case; those two things are not connected,” Ms McManus said.

“We have a bargaining system and we have a system based on decisions made by the Fair Work Commission … so it’s not possible because they’re decoupled for there to be a wage price spiral.”

Some economists have warned an outsized wage increase could complicate the Reserve Bank’s efforts to tame stubborn inflationary pressures. 

In last year’s determination, the commission for the first time split the minimum and award pay rates, increasing the minimum wage to $23.23 an hour, up 8.6 per cent, while increasing award rates by a more modest 5.75 per cent.

The decision, which was the largest increase in more than a decade, fuelled concerns that it would stoke inflation, and hold interest rates higher for longer.


And we have economic dummies like Lambie piping up that  "increasing the minium wage will add to inflation". 

(Unless she knows the currency-issuing government in a wealthy country like Oz can guarantee the essentials, making these annual wage case charades unnecessary. Socio-economic poverty is a political choice, not an economic necessity).

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